Affected EA189 engine

[Steve82]

Just checked my VIN in the below link and its one of the affected engines

Check your car < Home < Owners Area < Audi < Audi UK (http://www.audi.co.uk/owners-area/emissions/check-your-car.html)

ID: 23N6 S-Software update for engine control unit

Car is a 2.0 TDI Ultra Black Edition 2014.

Anyone else affected?

[Bar Shaker]

I would want to know what they were going to do to 'fix' it.

Killing the power to give me the NOx figures that I thought I was buying would not be an option.

The beard and sandals brigade may disagree.

[Q7quattro]

can they make you have the software update ? What if you refuse.

does it have to be done by Law ? If it doesn't , they can't force you to do it

[Q7quattro]

Thanks for posting the link....

just checked mine, I have an effected engine as well, below is taken from the Daily Telegraph, looks likes "they can't make you have the update to fix the issue"

if by having the update costs me more in diesel to run the car ..then I won't be having the update , however as my car has 14 months warranty will it void the warranty if I don't have the update ?

if it does void the warranty then it's a case of 14 months warranty VS principle of not having it done


The Department for Transport says drivers with cars fitted with Volkswagen's pollution-cheating software are under no obligation to send the vehicles back to VW dealerships to get them modified.
"If a driver didn't return the vehicle, that wouldn't be illegal," a DfT spokesman said, although he added that failure to do so could affect any warranty on the car as well as its resale value.
Motorists would not be fined if their cars weren't fixed, "but it is in their interest to do it".

[Greenman58]

Just checked my 2014 Ultra and it says it's not affected. How come some are and some aren't of the same model and year?

[diecastsink]

Depending what your law and regulations say, it may be forced to do the update. Here in Northern light periferia, if they make a service campaing you can try to fight only with manufacturer to keep your warranty, but if they make a recall as per law, then the traffic ministry officers orwhatever follow the cars modified, and may force you to do the update. Or in other words, may invalidate your vehicle license causing you driving illegal vehicle.

Our taxation is based on CO2 emission, which is not affected by false software. Worst we expected was that we got additional tax postpay due to raised CO2 figures!

Take a look at the official swedish VW web pages, there are listed hundreds of models up to year 2015!

What about when the first US driver gets hit by the truck in junction due to that the car will not accelerate as before, and hurts/dies ?
It is the same problem when you get cheap underpowered car in Canarias and try to get into local traffic pace.

[creampoint]

Most odd. My understanding was that all EU6 cars were OK. Mine was one of the first 2.0 tdi Ultras in the UK and the VIN check shows no action needed (as I expected)

However you mention 23N6 update. If that is all the website returns then it is nothing to do with emissions - rather a workshop campaign to solve a potential battery drain by the umpteen computers on board - that happened to me and a few others. Definitely worth having that update done. Hope that helps.

[EasyTiger75]

I think there might be some confusion here, the affected models should show the following code in the checker:

23Q4 S-Field campaign for diesel exhaust gas EA189

I'm one of those affected, MY2013 A6 Avant 2.0TDI S-line. I guess we just have to wait and see what the fix is but can't see what they can do that won't affect either economy or performance.

[chesterfield]

If by having the fix done it lowered the performance of the car, altered the economy or changed the car significantly from the advertised specification, then I'd be asking for a full refund. False advertising and all that.

[stuart]

I look at it this way...

1. Who has said that it is going to effect performance and MPG? The press!! if there so called experts know more about the range of VAG cars, there engines and management than VAG do then maybe they should get in touch with VAG.. I am sure they may need the help at the minute ;)

2. Until my dealer tells me "the fix is xyz" I take all the press as ******** ..

3. So far it is not a compulsory recall, it is your choice to have it done... SO, as I get on well with the dealer, let them do a few, if they have no issues with cars they do, I would have no problem having mine done.. They will tell me the truth.. MY friend is a technician there as well ;)

Now..

4. You can say that VW have ****** off 11 million people around the world and got more bad press that they could wish for... DO you really think they would be stupid enough to give a customer, a customer that they are trying to impress, make happy, keep there customer and restore there faith in the brand a car back that is not 100% right?

All that would do is **** off 11 million people even more and get even more bad press..

Do not worry based on the press comments.. enjoy your car, keep calm and I am sure all will be good... I am not worried or concerned, they made a mistake, they will put it right...

PS... Just remember this is the start of it... at least we know were we stand now, the "**** will hit the fan" soon with others.... ;)

[Whippy53]

A, don't waste time checking, if you have a EA189 engine you will get a recall
B, Ultras use the EA 288 which is not affected
C, your all a bit late to this party,
http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php/170038-Ouch-VW-Audi-in-the-US-of-A?goto=newpost

[Westyfield2]

A, don't waste time checking, if you have a EA189 engine you will get a recall
B, Ultras use the EA 288 which is not affected
C, your all a bit late to this party,
Ouch - VW/Audi in the US of A - Page 35 (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php/170038-Ouch-VW-Audi-in-the-US-of-A?goto=newpost)
This!


Other than retrofitting an AdBlue Selective Catalytic Reduction system, I can't really think what they're going to do. Any other mechanism I can think of will probably reduce one of MPG/Power/Lifespan.

Anyways I'm glad the whole fallacy of diesels has finally hit the media headlines. Our lawmakers obsessed over CO2 for 'Global Warming' whilst ignoring the harmful pollutants like NOx & Particulates and pushed consumers into buying Diesels. Hopefully soon we'll see a policy shift and manufacturers start offering petrol engines again.

[Bloater]

Checked mine yesterday and yes affected as well.

A bit surprised as the initial reports suggested that they got round the emissions by injecting large quantities of adBlue into the exhaust, something that couldn't be done for general driving as it wouldn't last long.

Now my engine is the one stated, so no AdBlue system, so it seems that the initial reports were wrong on how the emissions were achieved.

Mine is out of warranty next March anyway, so maybe I could push for either not having it done, or something towards a part-ex. Not going to worry greatly over it at the moment, as I work abroad so the car is easily achieving it's targets, NOx emissions are zero when it's parked up :)

Watching with interest though

[dieseloil]

I have just bought Audi A6 avant 2009 2.0tde i common rail diesel.I was under the impression that my engine is one that is affected by the emission problems.

In Austria at the moment and went to Innsbruck audi dealer for a faulty Exhaust Pressure Sensor repair G450

This was done as well as a software up date which I did not ask for and do not know what it exactly relates too,it cost 71 euros

i have just been on UK Audi site and I find my engine is not affected?

Have they done an upgrade/downgrade via the back door without letting on,I do not speak german so I could not find out from them

[Olio]

My MY14 2.0 TDI Multi (no adblue) is affected according to the website. Now I'm happy if they fix the issue when it does not change the car's drving and economy.
So the question is the following: will the fix tremove the cheat code (i.e. the car will always remain is standard road mode), or will the fix change the standard road mode to better reflect the performance it should have (which from what we know means loss of BHP, increase in fuel use)

In the first case, I have no issue, in the second... I do.

I'll wait and see.

[Westyfield2]

A bit surprised as the initial reports suggested that they got round the emissions by injecting large quantities of adBlue into the exhaust, something that couldn't be done for general driving as it wouldn't last long.
Now my engine is the one stated, so no AdBlue system, so it seems that the initial reports were wrong on how the emissions were achieved.


To be honest it all depends on which media outlets you read. Some of the media outlets have got it right all along, whereas others haven't had a clue what they're talking about.

The End Of Europe&#39;s Love Affair With Diesel? (http://news.sky.com/story/1557860/the-end-of-europes-love-affair-with-diesel) and Sky News Tonight on Twitter: "Watch: Volkswagen emissions revelations have re-ignited the petrol vs. diesel debate & raised questions over tests https://t.co/5ebWAH0YTu" (https://twitter.com/SkyNewsTonight/status/646750558834028544) are quite good as the mainstream media goes. Or if you want a long read take a look at http://www.theicct.org/sites/default/files/publications/ICCT_NOx-control-tech_revised%2009152015.pdf

The main thing really is that the USA didn't want diesels on their roads (pollution etc) so made the NOx regulations super tough. VAG for some reason decided they weren't happy with the status quo of selling great petrol engines, and fiddled the diesel emissions test to get their US sales allowed. If the USA weren't tougher on pollution than Europe is, or VAG hadn't wanted to peddle their obsession with diesel into the USA also, then the whole thing wouldn't have happened.

[fest0r]

Tree hugging, liberal, compensation seeker… burn him! :biglaugh:

I really hope this thread isn’t assimilated. You’re not even allowed to call it a “fix” over there now. My request has probably sealed its fate though :flowers1:

Lots of speculation until we find out what the remedy (remedies) will be, but one of the facts we have is the statement from the transport secretary about UK taxpayers not incurring higher vehicle excise duty on their cars. Does anyone have any more info on this? Is it due to tax legislation or has the treasury agreed a deal with VW? I can see the Taxpayers Alliance and other manufacturers up in arms if it turns out models should have been in a higher VED band.

[jcdub]

I remember I had a previous car (2009 Passat CC 140) remapped on the RR and the tuner couldn't understand how the car was running with certain values lower than he'd ever seen on any 2.0 vag tdi. It managed to get the car mapped to 190bhp either way.
So I just checked it on the VW site, and its listed as needing the update.
I'd imagine the cars affected with remaps will lose them with the update!

[fest0r]

You could be right… maybe naughty mode kicked in on his rolling road before the remap? Did you notice a big difference on the road? I wonder how much of the remap was a real world gain?

It could be quite a headache for all the places offering free remaps after servicing etc. :(

[Sam]

I really hope this thread isn’t assimilated. You’re not even allowed to call it a “fix” over there now. My request has probably sealed its fate though...

I'm not sure why you're trying to fight a fight that neither exists nor needs to exist but as it's quite clear you're having a dig at me I'll bite; I stated my opinion. I didn't say you weren't allowed to call it a fix. This isn't an dystopian novel, it's an online forum.


Lots of speculation until we find out what the remedy (remedies) will be, but one of the facts we have is the statement from the transport secretary about UK taxpayers not incurring higher vehicle excise duty on their cars. Does anyone have any more info on this? Is it due to tax legislation or has the treasury agreed a deal with VW? I can see the Taxpayers Alliance and other manufacturers up in arms if it turns out models should have been in a higher VED band.

I suspect it is because NOx has absolutely nothing to do with CO2 on which VED is calculated.

[mobilejo]

Will this end "Europe's love affair with diesel"? - Emissions is a political issue, performance v MPG is what most drivers care about. I doubt 2.0TDI owners are motivated by environmental factors - there's the Nissan Leaf for that. Unless the cost of diesel goes up massively, or the cost of petrol goes down massively, or there is a big diesel tax penalty, the diesel will always be cheaper to run and people will keep buying them. In america, petrol is so cheap that there is little need for a diesel (unless you like them, which TBF looking at some of the great diesel cars available - Audi BiTDI, BMW tri-turbo - I can understand); unless the UK changes comparative fuel prices to mimic that, a petrol car is still not a viable alternative for those who currently feel they need a diesel (which seems to be most of the population looking at cars on the road).

I, like most have been converted to diesel for 'everyday' driving after coming from a long list of petrol cars - IMO today, petrol is great for performance vehicles but for a 'normal' car, the diesel engine characteristic seems to suit better. Financial penalties for having diesel over a petrol would be the only thing that would make me go back. I imagine most current diesel drivers feel the same.

[jcdub]

You could be right… maybe naughty mode kicked in on his rolling road before the remap? Did you notice a big difference on the road? I wonder how much of the remap was a real world gain?

It could be quite a headache for all the places offering free remaps after servicing etc. :(

I did notice a big difference in performance. When the remap was installed. I do wonder if the remap changed the trick programme parameters...

[fest0r]

I'm not sure why you're trying to fight a fight that neither exists nor needs to exist but as it's quite clear you're having a dig at me I'll bite; I stated my opinion. I didn't say you weren't allowed to call it a fix. This isn't an dystopian novel, it's an online forum.

I suspect it is because NOx has absolutely nothing to do with CO2 on which VED is calculated.

I must have misunderstood your post: Ouch - VW/Audi in the US of A - Page 35 (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php/170038-Ouch-VW-Audi-in-the-US-of-A?p=980410#post980410)

Nobody seems to be sure what is reduced when naughty mode kicks in. I thought the US emission test was for NOx/NO2 only. Are you sure CO2 wasn’t coincidentally lowered? It’s also not what the Gov statement alludes to.

[Westyfield2]

I suspect it is because NOx has absolutely nothing to do with CO2 on which VED is calculated.

Ignoring my long standing belief that VED should cease to exist entirely, with an increased fuel tax compensating treasury revenue and therefore more fairly charging on an actual "how much you use the vehicle basis"...

I hope soon we get a government that puts the tax on the NOx/PM pollutants that are "harmful to human health in our cities", rather than the current taxation system which concentrates on the "global warming causing" CO2. After all NOx and PM are actually toxic, whereas CO2 is naturally exhaled by humans and absorbed by trees.

Diesel cars are 'killing people', says former Labour minister - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34407670)

[fest0r]

Here is the official statement regarding VED: Government confirms consumers who bought vehicles in good faith will not incur additional tax costs - News stories - GOV.UK (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-confirms-consumers-who-bought-vehicles-in-good-faith-will-not-incur-additional-tax-costs)

This part is quite vague, but might point to deal?


The government expects VW to support owners of these vehicles already purchased in the UK and we are playing our part by ensuring no one will end up with higher tax costs as a result of this scandal.

[Sam]

I must have misunderstood your post: Ouch - VW/Audi in the US of A - Page 35 (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php/170038-Ouch-VW-Audi-in-the-US-of-A?p=980410#post980410)

"Why is this being called a fix?" isn't quite the same as disallowing anyone to call it a fix. It was a question, not a statement.


Nobody seems to be sure what is reduced when naughty mode kicks in. I thought the US emission test was for NOx/NO2 only. Are you sure CO2 wasn’t coincidentally lowered? It’s also not what the Gov statement alludes to.

Bold is my addition and the crux of this entire debacle, yet still we all debate the subject(!)

If the government have said that it won't impact on VED one would assume they have factual information that it absolutely has not lowered CO2 or, like us, they're just ploughing on ahead regardless of any facts.

Euro 5/6 test for NOx, CO, hydrocarbons and soot. Reducing those can reduce CO2 which in turn would end up reducing VED. I think you're correct in that the US test only looks for NOx.

[Eshrules]

Ignoring my long standing belief that VED should cease to exist entirely, with an increased fuel tax compensating treasury revenue and therefore more fairly charging on an actual "how much you use the vehicle basis"...

I hope soon we get a government that puts the tax on the NOx/PM pollutants that are "harmful to human health in ourcities", rather than the current taxation system which concentrates on the "global warming causing" CO2. After all NOx and PM are actually toxic, whereas CO2 is naturally exhaled by humans and absorbed by trees.

Diesel cars are 'killing people', says former Labour minister - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34407670)

Nearly 60% of the cost of a litre of fuel belongs to the treasury already. One of the biggest reasons diesels appear to be so popular (and a mainly European love affair) is because of the way they were incentivised financially.

I'd be interested to see (on another thread perhaps) some figures to compare the NO2 output between European diesel cars and, I dunno, ships?

As of 2014 diesels accounted for 53% of vehicles owned in Europe (http://arstechnica.co.uk/cars/2015/10/diesel-how-it-changed-europe-and-how-europe-might-change-back/) and whilst I agree they're probably an endangered species (catalysed by the current 'scandal'), I don't agree that we should be trying to retrospectively penalise those who took advantage of the financial incentive of owning one.

[fest0r]

We might get more info soon. Apart from VW chiefs being grilled next week the Transport Secretary will be going in front of the select committee too.


Next meeting(s)
12 October 2015 4:30 PM
Volkswagen Group emissions violations

Witness(es): Paul Willis, Managing Director, Volkswagen Group UK Mike Hawes, Chief Executive, SMMT Rt Hon Patrick McLoughlin MP, Secretary of State, Department for Transport Paul Higgs, Chief Executive, Vehicle Certification Agency

[Bar Shaker]

My theory is that the re-map will massively up the AdBlue used and affected owners will get free AdBlue top ups.

No loss of performance and a relatively minuscule cost per vehicle.

[Olio]

My theory is that the re-map will massively up the AdBlue used and affected owners will get free AdBlue top ups.

No loss of performance and a relatively minuscule cost per vehicle.

Your theory is only partial, as my car has the EA189 engine and no Adblue...

[mobilejo]

My theory is that the re-map will massively up the AdBlue used and affected owners will get free AdBlue top ups.

No loss of performance and a relatively minuscule cost per vehicle.

Except the vast majority of the vehicles involved are non-adblue...

[GrolschUK]

Except the vast majority of the vehicles involved are non-adblue...

I agree with Sam, in the EU nothing has been set in stone, apart from some EU5 engines may have code in their ECU that "may" activate under test conditions.
Nowhere yet has said that any car outside of the USA has actually ran this code, but the recall is because it is there... not that it is running.

Removing code from an ECU that has not actually had the need to run it, means the car will not actually be any different... just VAG have their *** covered.

If it turns out that the NOx cheating has been going on in the EU then that is a slightly different question, but still not a great deal from where I stand as a consumer.
I bet your laptop/computer/tablet has speeds calculated in best effort lab conditions, that no way make up for how it performs on a day to day basis.

With the changes coming in for VED anyway, the UK will see emissions null and void after the first year...

You have a car, it handles how it does currently, the 'not used' code will be removed, it continues to handle how it currently does.

The Media **** train has not helped with the whole thing, nor has the growing trend to claim compensation from nothing

[johnsimcox]

Your theory is only partial, as my car has the EA189 engine and no Adblue...

But in the US these cars do have Adblue and that is where the story about over injecting Adblue during the test come from. In Europe the cars all ran without Adblue. At no time has anyone provided any evidence that show VAG cheated in the EU tests but they are having to replace the software because it is now shown to have some illicit code in it.

However this whole saga has shown the huge discrepancy between what is required to pass the EU test and how the car actually performs in the real world. This is an issue not just for VAG but all manufacturers. Can't believe it will be too long before Audi is offering the small petrol engined A6s already available in other markets here as well


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[mobilejo]

But in the US these cars do have Adblue and that is where the story about over injecting Adblue during the test come from. In Europe the cars all ran without Adblue. At no time has anyone provided any evidence that show VAG cheated in the EU tests but they are having to replace the software because it is now shown to have some illicit code in it.

According to everything I've read so far, the US versions are also non-adblue. I think I may have seen something that says a few cars called into question (some of the later ones IIRC) may have used adblue, but the vast vast majority were non-adblue.

These are the engines VW were using to compete with other manufacturers using adblue at the time, but VW had this stance (at the time) that they didn't need adblue to have emissions as low as the competition. Thus making the cars more profitable by not installing the adblue system.

This article pretty much repeats what I've read a number of times in different places: Anatomy of a cheat: Here’s what Volkswagen did and how they got caught | Financial Post (http://business.financialpost.com/business-insider/anatomy-of-a-cheat-heres-what-volkswagen-did-and-how-they-get-caught)

[johnsimcox]

According to everything I've read so far, the US versions are also non-adblue. I think I may have seen something that says a few cars called into question (some of the later ones IIRC) may have used adblue, but the vast vast majority were non-adblue.

These are the engines VW were using to compete with other manufacturers using adblue at the time, but VW had this stance (at the time) that they didn't need adblue to have emissions as low as the competition. Thus making the cars more profitable by not installing the adblue system.

This article pretty much repeats what I've read a number of times in different places: Anatomy of a cheat: Here’s what Volkswagen did and how they got caught | Financial Post (http://business.financialpost.com/business-insider/anatomy-of-a-cheat-heres-what-volkswagen-did-and-how-they-get-caught)


Clearly there is a lot of rubbish being talked about on this topic in the media and this artile certainly is in line with your comments. I can't help thinking whether we will ever learn the truth on this matter, or whether the press who have written incorrect articles will admit they got it wrong. Somehow I doubt it on both counts!

[mobilejo]

The press admit to spreading misinformation and scaremongering? They do that everyday, they call it 'going to work'. :D

"How do you know when a journalist is lying? He's typing."

[istate75]

I am really confused by which engines are affected. I've checked mine on the Audi website and it says it isn't. Mines a 2013 2.0TDI S-Line Multi (non Adblue). A May 2013 build. I've seen the same 2013/14 2.0 TDI's that are. Is the engine type stated in the build codes in the service book?

[diecastsink]

VW's Emissions Warranty Scandal, 1 October 2015 (http://www.warrantyweek.com/archive/ww20151001.html)

Interesting story...

[vwcabriolet1971]

According to the VW website VIN check, my 2009 1.6 TDI is affected ! How long has this been going on ?!!

[noscream]

According to the VW website VIN check, my 2009 1.6 TDI is affected ! How long has this been going on ?!!

I believe VW had a press clip stating 2008
Sorry to hear your in the pool of affected vehicles...
I'm sure there will be more revelations to come.

[Sam]

...
Sorry to hear your in the pool of affected vehicles...


Out of pure curiosity and without the intention of causing a riot, may I ask why you're sorry?

[Sw1000]

Hi All,

Haven't posted for a while, I have just taken my A6 Avant Black Ultra (April 2014) into Audi for a service this morning and they have confirmed there is a recall on the vehicle based on the recent emissions scandal , he said he couldn't do the fix today but it will be starting in the new year.

Given it's an EU6 car I was under the impression this wasn't impacted, I knew I should have got the 3litre and been done with it ;o)

When I go back this afternoon I will try and quiz them even more as I want to know exactly what they will be changing before they change it. Quite frankly I'm happy with my car as it is (apart from the number of times I've had to put Ad-blue in over 18,000 miles).

If the fix impacts performance etc then I will have concerns.

[johnsimcox]

I suspect the dealer is talking out of the area just below the base of his spine! Best way to check is to go to the Audi UK website Emissions (http://www.audi.co.uk/content/audi/owners-area/emissions.html) and enter your VIN in the section. If it still comes up then a call to Audi is probably required as they have categorically stated Euro6 car are not affected

[Sw1000]

Looks like you are correct, thanks for sending the VIN number checker.

Just tried and it come back fine however the dealer had it on his paperwork, I reckon the idiots have got it mixed up with a software update the guy on the phone said the car needed as it was one of the earlier ultras and they did some optimisations.

As long as it comes back working as before I'm happy

[Westyfield2]

Hi All,

Haven't posted for a while, I have just taken my A6 Avant Black Ultra (April 2014) into Audi for a service this morning and they have confirmed there is a recall on the vehicle based on the recent emissions scandal , he said he couldn't do the fix today but it will be starting in the new year.

Given it's an EU6 car I was under the impression this wasn't impacted, I knew I should have got the 3litre and been done with it ;o)

When I go back this afternoon I will try and quiz them even more as I want to know exactly what they will be changing before they change it. Quite frankly I'm happy with my car as it is (apart from the number of times I've had to put Ad-blue in over 18,000 miles).

If the fix impacts performance etc then I will have concerns.
I highly doubt that an Euro6 AdBlue model is affected, and would guess that [as usual] the dealers don't have a clue what they're talking about.

[johnsimcox]

Looks like you are correct, thanks for sending the VIN number checker.

Just tried and it come back fine however the dealer had it on his paperwork, I reckon the idiots have got it mixed up with a software update the guy on the phone said the car needed as it was one of the earlier ultras and they did some optimisations.

As long as it comes back working as before I'm happy
It may of course be that Audi has stopped all EMU software updates while they are checked to ensure there is no bad code, regardless of whether they apply to the EA189 engine

[Greedy]

The cars are all legal to drive now and don't have to have emissions adjusted to meet any reg's. The only problem (in a majority of cases) is that the software in the ECU is illegal - thus those cars will just get a software update that removes the illegal software, said software only activates during 'testing' and thus there will be no impact to daily driving of the car. The problems will come from those who have bought them for their advertised NOx levels and want their car to be as clear as they thought it was, for those they may have to buy back or compensation issues.

[johnsimcox]

The cars are all legal to drive now and don't have to have emissions adjusted to meet any reg's. The only problem (in a majority of cases) is that the software in the ECU is illegal - thus those cars will just get a software update that removes the illegal software, said software only activates during 'testing' and thus there will be no impact to daily driving of the car. The problems will come from those who have bought them for their advertised NOx levels and want their car to be as clear as they thought it was, for those they may have to buy back or compensation issues.
Have you ever seen an advert for a car claiming specific NOx emissions, can't say I ever had and I really question those who claim they bought a car based on its NOx rating, especially as it is not listed in the brochures from the manufacturers and the only way I found mine was to look at the V5C. The need to satisfy a specific Euro rating is a legal requirement in order to be allowed to sell the car in the first place and compliance simply means it met the criteria. Now if it is shown that VW or anyone else faked the results of the test so the cars were in effect sold illegally in Europe (as is effectively the case in the US) that is a different matter but at the current time there is no suggestion that that is the case

[Crasher]

The affected US market cars have a "band aid" fix NOX storage catalyst system which was a cheap solution as the VW accountants would not let the engineers have the $300 per car required to give the car the Urea system. No EU6 European cars are affected, that is a VAG quote. No European EU5 cars have the NOX storage catalyst so there is nothing in there for the so called "affected" cars to cheat, the firmware code is purely there by default, it is not required as the NOX limits here are MUCH higher than they are in the six US states that have adopted CARB emissions standards. I can't understand why VAG are even bothering to recall the EU cars. What is going to happen to the MILLIONS of EU5 cars in Europe that have been chipped and/or had their DPF removed? If you take it in for the recall you will be in a pile of poo as the recall will overwrite your remap and if there is no DPF, the DPF light will come on just as you drive off down the road. This is going to be a disaster, darling!

[Whippy53]

NOx Exhaust Treatment System
http://en.volkswagen.com/content/medialib/vwd4/global/editorial/it/techniklexikon/n/nox-abgasbehandlung/_jcr_content/renditions/rendition_0.215.102.file/xxxxxx_tl_nox-abgasnachbehandlung.jpg
The NOx storage catalyst, a combination of stainless steel catalytic converter and NOx storage components, allows nitrogen oxides to be temporarily stored. The resulting nitrogen oxides are oxidised to a higher valency and then removed from the exhaust gas flow.
At regular intervals, the nitrogen oxides stored in the converter are reduced to nitrogen and the catalyst is prepared for the next storage cycle.




This is what my wife's new (Euro 6) jetta has.

[Crasher]

What is the cars engine type code, or better still, PM me the reg number.

[Whippy53]

PM'd

[stuart]

Let's face it who can honestly say that they purchased a car bases on emissions?

Unless you pay company car tax based on CO2... NOT nox levels

I would say everybody else including me made a purchase on things as drastic as...

I have "x" amount to spend
I LIKE THE BLOODY CAR!!

Amazing now there is the thought of people claiming how many chose because of emissions isn't it!!!

Some could not care less about the problem or the solution. .. just how big a cheque will I get!

Let's hope those get even bigger solicitors bills tha the layout. ..



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[Whippy53]

I usually ask, whats the VED band, and, do you do it in a different color.

[stuart]

It just amazes me... and p***** me off how many have become "green" overnight...

Bet they don't offer to donate there alleged compensation to an environmental cause. ..that's if they get anything!

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[zollaf]

i actually bought my s4 because its a high emissions car, but its pre 2001 so still only standard tax and not co2 based tax. the later ones are like nearly 500 quid a year to tax, thats twice what mine is, and for a car thats hardly used, thats a lot of atmosphere warming petrol...

[zollaf]

It just amazes me... and p***** me off how many have become "green" overnight...

Bet they don't offer to donate there alleged compensation to an environmental cause. ..that's if they get anything!

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if they were that ' green', they would have bought a freaking prius in the first place...

[Whippy53]

Will nobody think of the Polar Bears?? Oh the Humanity!!

[Crasher]

NOx Exhaust Treatment System, This is what my wife's new (Euro 6) jetta has.

Nope, as I thought, Mrs Whippy's (:naughty:) car has the Urea additive Selective Catalytic Reduction system.

[Greedy]

Agreed, didn't even think to ask about VED when I bought mine, got a shock when the dealer only asked for £30. Previous car cost me nearly that each month. It wasn't even CO2 that brought me to Diesel, simply I wanted to swap to an Auto and the petrol options (few years back) just didn't have enough torque for the 'box. Things a little different now I know but I still prefer the in-gear performance of a diesel.

But back on topic - ish people who genuinely buy for emissions buy a Hybrid, they are aware enough of their market that they wouldn't even consider a Diesel. so no, there shouldn't be anyone making such claims but as we've all see from endowments, PPI and now packaged bank accounts there is always NWNF solicitor who will jump on the bandwagon and plenty of greedy (no relation) gits who will take the money and buy a flat screen TV with it.

[Whippy53]

Thas funny cos there ain't anywhere to put the adblue! Plus its a question we asked when we bought it. Still, I will check again when hunnybunny gets home.

[Crasher]

The Add Blue tank and its filler are in the centre of the spare wheel recess. PM me your email.

[Whippy53]

I shall RTFM! Advice I have often offered on here to others!

[Crasher]

So shall I, forgot it's a Jetta, under the flap in the right of the boot, trunk.....

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd20/Crasher1964/Jetta%20163%20Add%20Blue%20filler_zpsywybsowm.jpg (http://s222.photobucket.com/user/Crasher1964/media/Jetta%20163%20Add%20Blue%20filler_zpsywybsowm.jpg. html)

[Whippy53]

That'll be fun, telling her I want to look under her flaps for a second. Oh well, it was our anniversary last week so I'm due!

[Westyfield2]

It just amazes me... and p***** me off how many have become "green" overnight...


Surely someone who really cares about the environment is driving an Electric Vehicle anyways.

Petrol = CO2 = Global Warming
Diesel = NOx + PM = Death by pollution
Electric = Tree Hugger


Will nobody think of the Polar Bears??
Thinking of polar bears is why everyone ditched petrol for diesel!

[zollaf]

Surely someone who really cares about the environment is driving an Electric Vehicle anyways.

Petrol = CO2 = Global Warming
Diesel = NOx + PM = Death by pollution
Electric = Tree Hugger
rubbish, the electric has to come from somewhere. someone who really cares will be cycling and walking and wouldn't even own a car.

[Westyfield2]

rubbish, the electric has to come from somewhere. someone who really cares will be cycling and walking and wouldn't even own a car.
Very true!

[Rob69]

IMHO, Electric car whole lifecycle CO2 emmissions are far higher than equivalent petrol or diesel, power station may be more efficient than IC engine but factor in electricity transmission losses, transformer losses, charging losses. Then battery raw material mining, processing etc.
Only difference is the source of pollution is centralised and not seen at the car itself, out of sight out of mind. Another lie we are being sold in the name of the environment.
Just a rant, hopefully someone will prove me wrong.

[zollaf]

anyone that is into rc cars will know the pitfalls of electric. with a petrol car, you fill it up and have 10 mins fun, then re fill it and keep doing this until the fuel runs out. with an electric , you run it until the battery goes flat, then recharge it for 20 mins and have another 5 mins fun. same with big electric cars but the difference is theres not that many places to charge them and a full charge takes a while..

[Crasher]

I think we should all go Hydrogen... I was reading a story in a classic car mag this evening about how a leak and build up of Hydrogen on an early electric car caused such a band it blew nuts and bolts through plate steel! That should keep us all entertained, little Hindenburg's everywhere. :firedevil

[ukgroucho]

Ohh bugger! Just got a letter from Audi saying that my wife's A1 is affected - I thought it was safe 'cos it's a 1.6Tdi but patently they built EA189s in different sizes.

[Crasher]

Why worry? The car doesn't have an NOX trap and you aren't in the USA....

[johnsimcox]

Ohh bugger! Just got a letter from Audi saying that my wife's A1 is affected - I thought it was safe 'cos it's a 1.6Tdi but patently they built EA189s in different sizes.
EA189 comes in 1.2, 1.6 and 2.0 guises

[ukgroucho]

Why worry? The car doesn't have an NOX trap and you aren't in the USA....

True enough but they are stating an intent to 'recall and rectify the issue'. Until I understand exactly what the repercussions of that will be - any performance or fuel consumption changes - I'll just have to wait and see...

[Bar Shaker]

Changes to the 1.6 involve new injectors and a re-map.

[Crasher]

How the UK government have announced this but VAG haven't confuses me.

[johnsimcox]

How the UK government have announced this but VAG haven't confuses me.
It came out when the head of VW UK was hauled before the Commons Select Committee yesterday

[Whippy53]

And apparently, all the 2.0l needs is the line of (dormant) code removing. Watch the sky's!!

[Crasher]

And VW have declined to comment on the 1.6 injectors.

[fest0r]

For anyone that’s interested: Parliamentlive.tv - Transport Committee (http://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/205c2a9a-37c5-404f-9d32-0ecdc8d31ed6)

Paul Willis stated with regards to the recall, “Where a customer is inconvenienced or lives a long way away, we will have to provide a loan car”.

Patrick McLoughlin confirmed there was no demand for customers to comply with the recall and it was voluntary at the moment. He went on to say, if people were reluctant he would give it some consideration. There was further discussion at the end where Robert Flello asked about the feasibility of adding MOT requirements to test for compliance akin to the DPF bypass amendment. He went on to suggest a compulsory recall would save the need for this.

Probably a slip of the tongue as he isn’t an engineer, but Patrick McLoughlin mentioned “pistons” might be required for some of the recalls :confused:

With over 100,000 cars per month (33,000 Audi per month) to deal with I wonder if VW will outsource the UK recall? My local dealer(s) seems to be booking over 2 weeks ahead already and longer if you need a loaner. It seems 400,000 of the 1.2 million cars need mechanical changes so maybe they could subcontract the software fix?

VW emissions scandal: three-point plan to fix all recalled UK vehicles | Auto Express (http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volkswagen/92893/vw-emissions-scandal-three-point-plan-to-fix-all-recalled-uk-vehicles)

BTW, I might be bias given Mark Menzies history, but I found his grandstanding particularly annoying.

[mobilejo]

If, as has been stated, cars in the UK are perfectly fine because our NOX standards are not as strict as in the US and CO2 output has not been cheated, then why are hardware changes required on the 1.6? Suggests that it's more than just a case of removing the 'cheat' code and actually changing the the car in some way.

Carrying that thought on logically, why should we believe that the fix for the 2.0's is going to be purely removal of the 'cheat' code with no changes to the car's normal driving mapping? Seems to me that there is more to this than just "the cars are all fine as they are, we just have to remove the cheat code which would never be activated in this country anyway"...

Interested to read further developments.