Loads of vibration especially in idle

[KentAudi]

Hello guys,

I bought today my A6 (C6) 2005 model with the 2.4 V6 Petrol engine in SE trim.
The car has 91.600 miles :) which is good for the age and type of car I think. :) I got it cheap enough to allow for the repair of my problem... I have driven it 230 miles today from Derby, therefore it is drivable but not a pleasant experience when driving below 15mph.. lol above it , it is OKish.

So here goes the problem and a couple of "theories of what might be?"

The car always starts on the first turn with no dramas.
Once started and idling there is very strong vibration of the engine, like it is misfiring on 2 or 3 cylinders... The vibration is steady it does not hunt up and down the revs...
(to give you an idea how strong the vibration is... if you start talking the voice will start vibrating as well lol like sitting on a pulsating plate.).
Anyhow if you press the acclerator and go to 1500rpm the vibration smooths out by 60% ... makes things more copable... the gear stick is pulsing like mad... it is like a permanent vibrating phone.
During driving I never attempted to go over 3000rpm, close to 3000rpm there is a lot of droning noise from the gearbox/engine area and the gearstick still vibrates like a mad vibrating phone. The vibration does not come through the steering or anywhere else though.

What has already been done to the car by Audi (and the previous owner).
- 25th of May a visit to Audi regarding the vibration/misfire no further details
- 100 miles ago , 3rd of June, all coil packs replaced and spark plugs with new genuine by Audi as a recall campaign 28E9.
- Today AA attended , lucky enough for me it was a VAG Recovery service that worked for AA as well, therefore he had the proper VAG PC to plug in, he communicated with the ECU, however there were no fault codes logged. Also he said that he could not make the machine to read the misfires...?
- After driven 100 miles I went to a friend of mine to do a bit of more investigation and check the coil packs/spark plugs etc. We checked all the coil packs all provide strong spark, plugs all working as well, we also did compression test on all 6 cylinders and all gave readings close to 130psi, my friend said he would be happier with reading close to 150-170, however since all of them were even, seems OK I guess.
The clutch bearing it does a lot of noise, coming and going humming noise... when you press the clutch the noise goes away about 80%...

I remember my friend mentioning in the past the a Vauxhall car he worked on (although it was a diesel) once the Dual Mass Flywheel had gonne on it, on the tickover it had very similar problems with vibration like misfires. The same happened to a Golf apparently.

I have to say here there is no warning lights on the dashboard no EML etc...

Do you think I should be looking for replacing clutch and flywheel? has anyone experienced something similar before?

Cheers in advance
Vasilis

[KentAudi]

Apparently I found out my car most likely does not have a Dual Mass Flywheel. So that would eliminate that theory I guess :(

[Doctle Odd]

Start by checking all the engine and gearbox mounts ans the subframe bushes

[MarkTM]

Am guessing a manual since you mention 'gear stick' and 'clutch a couple of times?

Have you checked the condition of the air and fuel filters?

Has it ever had a gearbox fluid change, if so potentially a good place to start and not that expensive since a manual...esp if the vibration is coming through the stick.

Not seen many with a 2.4 on here as think it was discontinued quite early on in the C6 life.

[Crasher]

Front crank pulleys are prone to delamination, the BDW engine certainly DOES have a dual mass flywheel.

[KentAudi]

Thank you guys,

I have booked the car with my Auto-Electrician this Monday to have a thorough look at the problem.
I have just a little video showing the vibration, I have focused to certain areas only to try and show the force of the vibration.
The fast drumming sound of the background, I am sure it is the clutch release bearing... as soon as I press the clutch it goes away.


https://youtu.be/gv69bSUB1R4

by the way the loud beep noise, is only the low fuel warning :)

[Crasher]

I am sure it is the clutch release bearing... as soon as I press the clutch it goes away.

That is CLASSIC text book dual mass flywheel failure, sort of writ on stone tablets handed down to Moses by God himself...

[Doctle Odd]

And handed to God by Crasher! :notworthy

[KentAudi]

lol thank you for all the replies guys, much appreciated.

So you reccon that all my problems might be the DMF failure? or are we just talking for the noise cure only?

By the way, I couldn't find a DMF listed for my model i.e. eurocarpars only list a Clutch kit only for £200 ... I assume this is too cheap to have a DMF in price.

edit : I assume this is the one for my model? AUDI A6 2.4 Dual Mass Flywheel DMF 177 03/2005-10/2008 BDW | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUDI-A6-2-4-Dual-Mass-Flywheel-DMF-177-03-2005-10-2008-BDW-/131361662079)

[Doctle Odd]

Look at the photograph of the clutch plate. If it doesn't have springs it's DMF. Best to call your local friendly dealer and initially speak to the large chested nubile on reception. Lots of those parts sales websites seem to think the clutch kit is a 3 piece, euro carparts is also showing a 4 piece kit for your car @ 600.00 notes. Ouch

[KentAudi]

I shall try and call tomorrow Audi and see what they have to sayt, will they be able to tell what my car has by providing the car info etc? from V5 (VIN/Engine No)? Or are these no good?

I have found this link as well... so the price keeps going down as I look £422 inc VAT http://www.bmfautoparts.com/Clutch-Friction/Dual-Mass-Flywheel/Audi/A6/all/2.4/2008/Parts.aspx


(http://www.bmfautoparts.com/Clutch-Friction/Dual-Mass-Flywheel/Audi/A6/all/2.4/2008/Parts.aspx)

[KentAudi]

That is CLASSIC text book dual mass flywheel failure, sort of writ on stone tablets handed down to Moses by God himself...


And handed to God by Crasher! :notworthy



So do you both would suggest shall I continue by taking the car to the electrician on Monday or shall I best book it with the garage for DMF / Clutch replacement (as long as I find out tomorrow from Audi it has a DMF?).

Is all this violent vibration, booming sound when driving from the DMF? :( or am I looking at misfiring...
All the spark plugs do seem to be tha same colour and burning the same, the coil packs give out strong sparks too.

Unless I am so unlucky and the timing chain has jumped a tooth?? but I cannot hear any nasty noises from the engine...

[Doctle Odd]

Usually the reg is enough but have the chassis no handy as well. That link is for flywheel only you'd still need the clutch, pressure plate and release bearing. Be sure to read the small print if you decide to buy in Eurocarparts as the also sell re-manufactured clutches and from past experience they suck more than a Dyson

[Doctle Odd]

And some DMF clutch plates have springs too.

[KentAudi]

That is CLASSIC text book dual mass flywheel failure, sort of writ on stone tablets handed down to Moses by God himself...


And handed to God by Crasher! :notworthy


So do you both would suggest shall I continue by taking the car to the electrician on Monday or shall I best book it with the garage for DMF / Clutch replacement (as long as I find out tomorrow from Audi it has a DMF?).

Is all this violent vibration, booming sound when driving from the DMF? :( or am I looking at misfiring...
All the spark plugs do seem to be tha same colour and burning the same, the coil packs give out strong sparks too.

Unless I am so unlucky and the timing chain has jumped a tooth?? but I cannot hear any nasty noises from the engine...




what about this though? :)

[Doctle Odd]

You could send Crasher :notworthy your reg/vin and he might look on his computing machine and verify what clutch kit you need!

[KentAudi]

Hi guys,

Some news on the case.
I have called Audi today and after calling to 3 different dealerships I managed to get through to the one who had the car in on the 25th of May for diagnosis.
It was booked in for the same symptoms which is vibrations and "misfires" but no fault codes what so ever.
The thing that I can see now is that the car does not misfire, but the vibrations are coming from the DMF.

Audi has confirmed that, they said their suggestion after the diagnosis was opening of flywheel and inpection, replacement if needed.
If this failed to resolve the problem then they suggested about timing chain.

However as I said that the car only vibrates and does not show any misfires (via fault codes or diagnostic equiments) I am inclined to believe the problem would be with the DMF.
I would not think it is the timing chain either as there does not seem to be any sort of misfiring or rattles etc. Just clutch bearing like noises.

Audi has quoted for £1033.00 parts only incl VAT
and if want the labour too all inclusive of £1759.00

Off to the looks for a cheap (but good) flywheel and clutch kit. How many hours would it take to replace so I can estimate a garage rate? :(

[Crasher]

For an experienced chap it is a good full days work IF everything goes smoothly, but it is an Audi.....

I get the flywheel as being 06E 105 266 AC @ £755.84, ECP don't list it but LUK list it as 415 0358 10, no company apart from LUK list it. The matching clutch kit is VAG number 06E 198 141 X @ £281.54 which is available from Sachs, LUK and Valeo but obviously it would be stupid to not use the matching LUK part in case you have any warranty issues. The LUK part number is 623 3231 00 and ECP list it for £208 http://www.eurocarparts.com/search/641442540/p/home

[KentAudi]

For an experienced chap it is a good full days work IF everything goes smoothly, but it is an Audi.....

I get the flywheel as being 06E 105 266 AC @ £755.84, ECP don't list it but LUK list it as 415 0358 10, no company apart from LUK list it. The matching clutch kit is VAG number 06E 198 141 X @ £281.54 which is available from Sachs, LUK and Valeo but obviously it would be stupid to not use the matching LUK part in case you have any warranty issues. The LUK part number is 623 3231 00 and ECP list it for £208 http://www.eurocarparts.com/search/641442540/p/home

I have got a discounted quote from GSF
Flywheel for £399.00 + VAT
Clutch kit for £157.00 + VAT

Total incl VAT : £667.20 which I think it is a good price

Garage says the book mentions about 7.2hrs work therefore one garage quote is £320 + VAT but I have between 3 garages to choose... therefore I can get it a bit lower I guess.

At the moment replacing a broken drop link (or as Audi calls them C-Link) driver front side. That at least I can do it my self, for the shake of £18 lol ... :)

[Doctle Odd]

Ask a few Indies for quotes for parts & labour. They often get a better discount on parts being in the trade and may well pass some savings on to their customers

[KentAudi]

Ask a few Indies for quotes for parts & labour. They often get a better discount on parts being in the trade and may well pass some savings on to their customers

Good idea :) I asked them that too, but they will come back to me.
GSF did give me the equivalent to trade prices apparently. The DMF and Clutch kit they are both LUK products so I assume they are good quality.

[MarkTM]

Just remembered I had a rough idle and some vibration on my profile pic car a few years ago, it turned out it was the PCV valve that was clogged.

Am assuming your 2.4 has one?

In my case a small drill bit and a pair of pliers sorted it....but possibly it would come up with a boost related fault in yours.

[KentAudi]

Just remembered I had a rough idle and some vibration on my profile pic car a few years ago, it turned out it was the PCV valve that was clogged.

Am assuming your 2.4 has one?

In my case a small drill bit and a pair of pliers sorted it....but possibly it would come up with a boost related fault in yours.

I will have a look who knows :)
But yes no fault codes what so ever logged, even after I drove the car for 230miles.. no codes again.

[Crasher]

The DMF and Clutch kit they are both LUK products so I assume they are good quality.

LUK say they invented the DMF (which I dispute but never mind) and they would have made the one in your car now and if you bought it genuine from Audi, they would have made that one as well, so you cannot buy better. Whether you consider an LUK DMF to be good quality is another matter.....

[KentAudi]

LUK was my only option for parts so :) they will be OK I guess for some period of time at least lol
I booked it with an Audi Specialist in Canterbury to do the work and supply the parts it does come a bit cheaper than me supplying the parts plus there is the usual warranty for the work. :)
Looking forward to Wednesday, my pockets doesn't lol :)

[KentAudi]

Well I took the car to the Audi Specialist today and they have changed the clutch and the dual mass flywheel... my pocket still hurts lol ... but it is one of those things you have to do once in life lol (never had to change a clutch to a car before.

Apparently the old DMF was almost in half and in a very very bad state.
With the new parts the car now drives like new... so smooth and quiet :) really pleased with the outcome.
I can now enjoy my new car :)

Thank you for all the advise guys.

Cheers