help - non turbo to turbo engine swap

[WelshAudiTech]

Hi everyone, i'm new to this forum but have been following for a while. A couple of months ago i picked up a 2000 1.8 Non turbo a4. The body work is in mint condition but the engine+clutch are on their last legs! Last week i bought a 1997 1.8T sport for a bargain price which will be used as a donor car. The questions i have are - Has this swap ever been done and if so how difficult will it be? Replies would be greatly appreciated, Thanks:o

[Doctle Odd]

Yes it can be done and a lot easier than putting a TDi into a petrol car. You'll have to pretty much remove everything that connects to the engine and move them across. You will need the SKC to get it to start, most of it is just bolt off bolt on

[WelshAudiTech]

Yeah removing the engine isn't the hard part, its getting it to actually start. I'm guessing the easiest way will be to remove both ECU's and just change them over with the clocks. And SKC? I don't understand what that stands for? Cheers for the reply btw!

[Doctle Odd]

SKC, Thats the key code, Changing the ECU, cluster and ignition barrel isn't necessary you just need to code the turbo car's ECU, but, you need the code. A locksmith can retrieve it or someone with VG tacho (you'll need both cars codes )

[Crasher]

If you sold both cars you could buy a decnet one with the engine you want already factory fitted...

[green A8]

I think that 'Crasher' may well have a vald point. :D

That said, providing that both cars are complete I can't see it being such a huge job for a DIYer. No way would it ever be a proposition to bring in a pro like that man 'Crasher' though. Would it be fair to assume two/three hours per engine out/out/ in. Plus say another four hours 'tinkering' I haven't got a clue what hourly rates a pro would charge, but VAT would add to the misery. Add to this cost maybe the cost of a new clutch/DMF and suddenly 'Crashers' input is on target. What's a year 2000 A4 worth? (I assume it's a saloon) £5-700.00 or thereabouts?

But if the OP's keen to have a bash at it good luck to him. I hope he succeeds. :beerchug: He'll have plenty of spare parts to keep at least one car 'live' for a few years at the end of the day.

[Crasher]

It would be easier to list the parts that you would not have to change over.

[green A8]

I'll start then:D. Bootlid/Tailgate, doors, interior... Err............Anything I've missed?

[Doctle Odd]

You could move the engine and box as one lump. I'm not sure if the gearbox flanges are the same. brake discs ? Complete loom from 2 cars has to be removed carefully. If keeping the car it would be a good opportunity to change the clutch and timing belt. Some things will be sure to break, lock carrier bolts can snap or round out. I'd say it would take minimum of 2 days working full time, good indie charges say £50.00 ph so there's £800.00 in labour plus new oil, coolant other misc bits and bobs....

[green A8]

I'd be tempted to drop the lot subframe and all. Swap them out as a complete unit including front suspension. But I suppose it would be rude not to open up the bellhousing to check the condition of the clutch, on the donor car.

Then my OCD would take over and I'd end up replacing every moving suspension part plus the clutch flywheel and timing belt and water pump/ thermostat. not to mention the alternator freewheel clutch (if fitted) and the aux belt tensioners. front wheel bearings and a pair of driveshafts.

I'd spend a fortune but end up with a car that hasn't increased in value, it would have to be a long term keeper to justify the projected cost's. That's me I'm afraid and I've got a certificate to prove that I'm nuts.

[Doctle Odd]

I'd be tempted to drop the lot subframe and all. Swap them out as a complete unit including front suspension. But I suppose it would be rude not to open up the bellhousing to check the condition of the clutch, on the donor car.

Then my OCD would take over and I'd end up replacing every moving suspension part plus the clutch flywheel and timing belt and water pump/ thermostat. not to mention the alternator freewheel clutch (if fitted) and the aux belt tensioners. front wheel bearings and a pair of driveshafts.



I'd spend a fortune but end up with a car that hasn't increased in value, it would have to be a long term keeper to justify the projected cost's. That's me I'm afraid and I've got a certificate to prove that I'm nuts.

But after that you'd have a fine car sadly worth no more than the 2 you started with :)

[green A8]

True, Sad but true D.O.
And this is the very reason why our family fleet of B5's is decreasing. The simple fact is fine car though they were in their day, that era is passing. Everyone seems to want low VED low emission modern vehicles

Can't say I blame 'em. On the drive at the moment I've got both the A8's given the choice of the two I prefer the old '96 D2 by a country mile compared to it's D4 sister. The older car feels as if it was BUILT. The newer one is just another modern mass produced Eurobox.

[Crasher]

It is like the 2002 late 4D A8 I had in a week or so ago, good car with a sound engine, box, lovely interior, clean paint but a none runner because of a failed fuel pump, which is £679 genuine.... With that fixed I decided to give it a quick visual and it needed a few jobs doing, one of which was serious, a leaking rear damper that was pouring central hydraulic fluid out. So a new damper at £1813.01, for one side only! The cars barely worth the price of the part but without it, it is an MOT failure....

[Doctle Odd]

True, Sad but true D.O.
And this is the very reason why our family fleet of B5's is decreasing. The simple fact is fine car though they were in their day, that era is passing. Everyone seems to want low VED low emission modern vehicles

Can't say I blame 'em. On the drive at the moment I've got both the A8's given the choice of the two I prefer the old '96 D2 by a country mile compared to it's D4 sister. The older car feels as if it was BUILT. The newer one is just another modern mass produced Eurobox.

I'm going to collect an AFN engine this evening, came out of a ford galaxy 132k miles and only 50 yoyos. I have nothing to put it in right now, but ...

[green A8]

It is like the 2002 late 4D A8 I had in a week or so ago, good car with a sound engine, box, lovely interior, clean paint but a none runner because of a failed fuel pump, which is £679 genuine.... With that fixed I decided to give it a quick visual and it needed a few jobs doing, one of which was serious, a leaking rear damper that was pouring central hydraulic fluid out. So a new damper at £1813.01, for one side only! The cars barely worth the price of the part but without it, it is an MOT failure....

I know Crasher the cost of (I assume) self levelling dampers on the D4 is a joke. Untill you have to buy a new one that is would you be able to rip out the self levelling and fit a standard rear suspension? With the D4 can you not get the fuel pump as a seperate item (genuine Bosch) as with the D2? It's the plastic housing that Audi bury the pump within that seems to cost a fortune. Mind you I've only done a couple of D2 fuel pumps, refitting them and getting them to work properly is such good fun I try to avoid the job now if I can! I don't really know what I'm talking about. The D4 could be a totally different kettle of fish (and it probably is)

My D4 is fitted with air suspension, so no fear of leaky rear shocks (I hope), but as it's under warranty I'll let Audi worry about fixing it if it goes wrong. Both our modern Audis the A8 and the A7 are plagued with defective PDC sensors a right pain in the you know where. Blasted things are forever going wrong! The A8 is on it's third fix to the rear and second fix at the front. I think the Wifes A7 has spent more time back at Audi for PDC sensors than any other fault I think they should be banned and people trained to learn how to park! I can honestly say that even though it's fitted I've never used the autopark switch on my A8. Another usless gimmick is the HUD in direct sunlight. I will admit that the night vision has proved useful in avoiding a collision with a deer on one occasion, still a bit of a costly thing to spec though

[green A8]

I'm going to collect an AFN engine this evening, came out of a ford galaxy 132k miles and only 50 yoyos. I have nothing to put it in right now, but ...

I'm sure you'll find a suitable candidate/victim for a conversion D.O

[Crasher]

Yes I fitted an insert unit into the fuel pump casing, a lot cheaper. I can't bring myself to take off the self leveling, I hate downgrading a car, it annoys me as it is a slippery slope from there to the breakers yard.

[green A8]

You could always UPGRADE to a Quattro Sport rear suspension (20mm lower) Crasher. A very popular mod with those owners who tow caravans I'm told.

I had a 2001 A8 that had been modified as described above before I bought it, it drove very well, but sadly it had the very unreliable five speed autobox that failed without warning. I drove it into the garage one evening, next morning no forward drive at all, just reverse. I was given all manor of quotes for a recon box from £1,500 to £4,500. In the end i stripped the box and fixed it myself (with a lot of help from ZF in Nottingham) It cost me time and around (from memory) £6-700. The A8 is still within the family and still lugging caravans all over the place. It's not given a moments trouble since the autobox was overhauled.

[Crasher]

I don't think the owner who he drives for would like the reduction in ride quality but I have not heard from them anyway. Every single A6/A8 I ever encounter with that ZF 5HP box has either got problems with it on not long since had problems, they were a disaster in all the cars they were used in such as Jag and BMW.

[green A8]

It's a glorified 'O' ring that causes all the problems. Well it was on mine. As a precaution and as advised by ZF I also renewed other parts as well. The car now gets it's transmission oil changed every four years, along with all the other 'major' overhaul bits, it's only doing around 6K miles PA. I still want to know why certain Audi main agents claim that the gearbox is a 'sealed for life unit'

[WelshAudiTech]

Thanks for the response guys. I'm just looking to do the swap due to both cars being a bargain really, the 1.8 non turbo is on its last legs and also needs a clutch so it makes sense to swap the engine from the older vehicle really which is pretty untidy body work wise. It won't be a DIY job as such due to me being a Main dealer mechanic. Removing the engines isn't really a problem because I come across them daily at work (2.0 TFSI lol) but I have never removed an engine from anything from the b5 chassis before. Any help on wiring and getting the keys to work in another car would be great.

[Crasher]

The big unknown is whether you will be able to get the immobiliser system working, VCDS would be considered a necessity as would the wiring diagrams for both cars.

[zollaf]

intercooler.

[Doctle Odd]

I'd quite like the job if someone was paying me to do it, otherwise it would be a pain and probably never finished

[Crasher]

intercooler.

What about it? :confused: