Suspension arm issue HELP please.

[azumore]

Hello my fellow Audi friends.

I removed my front lower rear control arm with lots Of tea, swearing and heat. But the bushing which the control arm sits in has come off as well.

Now I have the suspension arm with this bushing thing on it and I've tried heating and all sorts, but isnt budging.

What is the name of this part?
Can I get a replacemen?
Any advice or help will be appreciated.

Many Thanks

[Doctle Odd]

Photo?

[azumore]

http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr193/azumtohseef/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0100_zpsil1hzc0a.jpg~original (http://s483.photobucket.com/user/azumtohseef/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0100_zpsil1hzc0a.jpg.html)

[azumore]

The left is how it should be when the ball joint was taken off, the right is the the one with the bushing thing from the car

[Doctle Odd]

Youre going to gave to hold the bush maybe in a vice and tap the ball joint out, it may be easier to cut it off and use a socket to hold the bush. I assume you didn't use a ball joint separator?

[azumore]

Yep, that's right I didn't. I didn't have one.

[azumore]

I've tried heating and vice grip method,because the ball joint is moving around it makes it very difficult.

[azumore]

Do you know what that part is called?

[Doctle Odd]

I don't think that bush is meant to come out of the hub. You can cut it below the bush with a grinder or hacksaw, then put it on top of something with a hole, say a socket and tap/hammer/beat it out

[MarkTM]

Would have thought either a G clamp or a pulling tool (like used in wiper arms) may do the trick?

If won't work or not available only option will be to buy a new bush, meaning your car will be off t'road for a few days :(

[micheal balbrig]

Is the bush an original fitment
May be worth a try with the freeze spray on the ball joint spindle while trying removal of bush, the idea would be to shrink the spindle at very low temperature to ease removal

[Doctle Odd]

Ive done this before, cut off the ball and drop the wide end into a 19mm deep socket, then introduce mess sewer club hammer

[azumore]

Yes the bushing isnt meant to come out, I only realised this when I went to fit the new ball joint, i noticed it was loose and seemed to be the incorrect ball joint .

I went to 4 local car parts stores including TPS. When the guy would fetch the part and bring to the couter, the first thing I would do is check the ball joint cone size. Every one of them wasn't the same size as the one I took off from my car. I had then ordered online from a meyle stockist when I received it, again didn't look like the correct part. I phoned them up and explained the situation, he then asked his collegue which said the bushing thing can sometimes come out.

Thats when I went to my garage and had a proper look at the suspension arm I had taken offand found that it was the bushing thing had come off, it had taken me 2 hours for the suspension arm to take off, when it did come off I flung it across my driveway in joy and despair. The last thing I wanted to do is look at the ball joint. Arrrr

[Doctle Odd]

For future reference buy a damn ball joint separator, a Sealey one costs less than a score and you'd have the job done as quickly as you could tighten the bolt. The bush will come off however AFAIK it's pressed into the hub so you'll need a new one and a press.

[azumore]

I do have a fork type ball joint separator, but not the sealey or draper kind where you use a wrench to pop out the ball joint. On my previous vehicle, Audi A4. I replaced absolutely everything in the suspension without one. But this one was siezed like hell. The ball joint separator was of no use.

[azumore]

What kind of press do I need,

1. Stand alone hydraulic press.

2. Or just a standard one for like bushing replacement that s shaped like a c?
If you could link me to the type of press.I would be really grateful.

Thanks

[Cavanmick]

I've had lots of them do that, I've just taken the sleeve off the Ball joint and fitted it back into the hub with a tap of a persuader and fitted the new arm and never had any issues.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[amiram]

According to the image I think You have there more damage. ( Aluminum casting Wheel bearing housing) This part Not separate from the Wheel bearing housing. What Car and a year of production you have?

[azumore]

Audi A6 C5 1.9TDI
Automatic
54 Reg
130BHP

[azumore]

I phoned Audi and they said it doesn't seem to come separately.
Arrr. So frustrating

[Doctle Odd]

Did you get it off the ball joint stem? I been thinking about this and maybe Mick is right and tapping it home might work. The nut should be holding it tightly in place.

[amiram]

4B3407253G Left
4B3407254G Right Wheel bearing housing.

[Cavanmick]

Did you get it off the ball joint stem? I been thinking about this and maybe Mick is right and tapping it home might work. The nut should be holding it tightly in place.
I speak from experience lads, done the same several times.[emoji4] [emoji4]

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[azumore]

I think am gonna have to give it a bash. I Will have a heart attack if have to pay 400 pounds for a steering knuckle. 😭😭😭

[amiram]

Right or left?

[azumore]

Front Left suspension

Lower rear control arm

[Rob69]

Mick - do you loc tite the bush as well?

[Cavanmick]

No haven't done on any I've done, tap it back in, stick yhe new arm through and the bush can't move then, only problem I could forsee is after several times the bush might wear and introduce play but so far I've had no problems.

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[amiram]

GBP 211.00 On Ebuy, used
ball joint separator 15GBP

[azumore]

Like I said before, I've replaced the whole suspension on my 15 year old Audi a4 without using a ball joint separator.

I've learnt my lesson for sure now.

I will try knocking the **** out of it tomorrow. I would have done today but after work I went to play football and kicked the grass instead of the ball and I've hurt my big toe😭😭😭

[amiram]

In your 15 year old Audi a4 the Wheel bearing housing Still made from cast iron As from production year 04 \ 05 It is made from cast aluminum. More sensitive do not use a hammer. (and swearing):Blush:

[azumore]

What would be the best method of removing it then, I am going to have a go this evening.Thanks

[Doctle Odd]

What would be the best method of removing it then, I am going to have a go this evening.Thanks

removing what?

[amiram]

With the right tools and you tube, it is esay
Release the central wheel bolt that holds the CV axial, Lift the car,wheel down. Brake caliper and disc, ABS sensor down from the Wheel bearing housing, CV axial out from the Wheel bearing housing, the two lower control arme bell joints, Steering bellpin joint, the two upper control arms bellpin joints (Are released with one screw). If this part is used, check the old Wheel bearing.
Good luck

[azumore]

Hi, I managed to get the sleeve off the ball joint. It was a pain, lots of heat, 24 inch wrench and a sledgehammer with this it knocked out the ball joint from the suspension arm. Then I turned the ball joint upside down and I placed the nut that holds the suspension arm on the car and I put it into a vice and hammered the ball joint out rather than the sleeve, it has some cuts and bruises it's a bit battered but I think this will get me by thanks for all your help and ideas. however I still have another hard bit where I need to slide the bushing all sleeve back into place.

[JMR1]

I can't remember ever hearing about a ball joint bushing being that tight before... some way the metal in the bushing must have " welded" itself to the ball joint.

[amiram]

You right JMR1 but With a lot of heat and a large hammer it possible. Lesson bit expensive

[azumore]

Yep, I think the threads from the ball joint moulded into the sleeve. I'm gonna try and clean it up, lube the sleeve and the suspension bit it's gonna sit in, and try and slide it in. Will I need some sort of press?

[amiram]

I think that you need to replace the part

[JMR1]

You could get a fairly long threaded bolt,as near the same inner diameter of the Bush you are fitting.Get two large heavy metal washers and put the bolt through the bush,with one washer at the wide end.Push bolt,washer and bush into the arm,and put the 2nd washer and nut on the bolt.Get two spanners,and tighten the nut slowly.This will pull the Bush into place.But be careful,and make sure that it's entering straight and evenly,otherwise the Bush will be damaged.

[Cavanmick]

Tap it in with a hammer, it's not that tight a fit.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[Doctle Odd]

I think you should look into hiring a mobile mechanic

[azumore]

Thanks JMR1, than sounds like a very cost effective plan. I have some washers knocking around and because I've changed the other lower control arm i have the used bolts they should do the trick. Will try tomorrow. Thanks

[Cavanmick]

Tap it in with a hammer, it's not that tight a fit.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
Like I said, I speak from experience.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[Col]

I've had this exact problem.

The taper would not break and the taper insert came out still attached to the balljoint.

The way I got it off was to hacksaw off about 15mm from the balljoint spiggot and then use my good old sykes pickavant scissor balljoint splitter. The reason for cutting 15mm off is that the splitter wouldn't open wide enough. I had the arm in the bench vise with the balljoint splitter under high tension and then gave it a blast with a map gas flame. After about 30 seconds it gave.

Once off, the taper insert simply taps back into into the hub carrier and is brought fully home when you tighten everything up.

A few top tips when doing the arm replacement;

1, Plan ahead, spray the upper pinch bolt every day for a few weeks before with plusgas or similar, this pinch bolt is likely to give you more trouble than anything else during the eight arm change.
2, Planning ahead still, focus only on the upper arm pinch bolts and do them first. It is good practice as a DIY'er to remove the old ones and temporarily refit a new bolt. You could end up wasting a lot of time on these upper pinch bolts alone. The last thing you want is to have everything apart only to get stuck on these. I did the pinch bolts one Saturday morning and then did the arms the following Saturday safe in the knowledge I'd have no trouble with them.
3, If you are having trouble with the lowers, as described in this thread and I really did have a lot of grief, cut your losses and remove the complete steering knuckle / hub carrier and work on it on the bench, it is much easier and you can hit it harder on the bench.
3a, The ABS sensor and brake pad wiring needs to be unthreaded out though the hollow centre of the knuckle. (not sure if the later alloy knuckles are like this?) There is a multiplug behind a grommit on the wheelarch.
3b, Undo the hub nut and the inner lower bolts and take the whole lot off the car.
4, Be prepared to lay the car up for a few days and plan for alternative transport as there is a chance that you may be supplied with the wrong balljoint taper size on the lower arms. I was and had no choice to leave the car in bits for a few days.
5, Final tightening is done with the wheels on the ground, this can be tricky mc dicky, have a think and plan how you are going to do this.

Picture time...

Meyle HD kit ready to go
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/colin__/AA%20Passat%20Highline/DSCF4515_zpsc7yudcxr.jpg

The infamous upper pinch bolt of which I'd pre-sprayed for a week or two before and swapped over the week before the actual arm change.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/colin__/AA%20Passat%20Highline/DSCF4517_zps4wd7ycie.jpg

Upper arms measured and set to the 'design' height, you must set these at the correct angle otherwise the bushes will wear out quickly
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/colin__/AA%20Passat%20Highline/DSCF4525_zpsdyuddmdo.jpg

Stuck taper insert, which is what this thread is all about. It happens and it is tricky to work round.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/colin__/AA%20Passat%20Highline/DSCF4526_zpsr67y1o9t.jpg

And off (holding only once it had cooled down!)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/colin__/AA%20Passat%20Highline/DSCF4527_zpsaehq4djd.jpg

ABS wiring connector behind grommet
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/colin__/AA%20Passat%20Highline/DSCF4530_zpsiegefhho.jpg

Insert going back into the knuckle
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/colin__/AA%20Passat%20Highline/DSCF4531_zpsr6akxhlb.jpg

One vital thing to do is also to maintain the factory set distance of the track rod end to the steering knuckle. This is called the 'S' curve setting or bump steer setting or all manner of other things which I cannot think at this time! Quite simply, this is important as this suspension system steers over a virtual axis which is different to a convential mcpherson strut and wishbone setup. If you don't set the gap correctly you can really mess up the handling of your car! I measured the gap with a feeler gauge and transferred this to the new trackrod end. It is not an ideal method but better than nothing. Also note if you go to 99% of tyre places they will not have even heard of the 'S' curve and will have no idea about setting this whilst doing your tracking. With very rare exceptions, this is a VW / Audi main dealer job only. MAKE SURE YOU GET YOUR FEELER GAUGES OUT AND MEASURE AND TRANSFER THIS DIMENSION KIDS!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/colin__/AA%20Passat%20Highline/DSCF4529_zps7kcum0i9.jpg

Other than that there are loads of guides online.

The only thing I can say and say again, is plan ahead, plan on doing the pinch bolts one weekend and the arms the next weekend.

I'm just a keen DIY'er by the way, but do like plan when undertaking any big job like this.

[Doctle Odd]

I've had this exact problem.

The taper would not break and the taper insert came out still attached to the balljoint.

The way I got it off was to hacksaw off about 15mm from the balljoint spiggot and then use my good old sykes pickavant scissor balljoint splitter. The reason for cutting 15mm off is that the splitter wouldn't open wide enough. I had the arm in the bench vise with the balljoint splitter under high tension and then gave it a blast with a map gas flame. After about 30 seconds it gave.

Once off, the taper insert simply taps back into into the hub carrier and is brought fully home when you tighten everything up.

A few top tips when doing the arm replacement;

1, Plan ahead, spray the upper pinch bolt every day for a few weeks before with plusgas or similar, this pinch bolt is likely to give you more trouble than anything else during the eight arm change.
2, Planning ahead still, focus only on the upper arm pinch bolts and do them first. It is good practice as a DIY'er to remove the old ones and temporarily refit a new bolt. You could end up wasting a lot of time on these upper pinch bolts alone. The last thing you want is to have everything apart only to get stuck on these. I did the pinch bolts one Saturday morning and then did the arms the following Saturday safe in the knowledge I'd have no trouble with them.
3, If you are having trouble with the lowers, as described in this thread and I really did have a lot of grief, cut your losses and remove the complete steering knuckle / hub carrier and work on it on the bench, it is much easier and you can hit it harder on the bench.
3a, The ABS sensor and brake pad wiring needs to be unthreaded out though the hollow centre of the knuckle. (not sure if the later alloy knuckles are like this?) There is a multiplug behind a grommit on the wheelarch.
3b, Undo the hub nut and the inner lower bolts and take the whole lot off the car.
4, Be prepared to lay the car up for a few days and plan for alternative transport as there is a chance that you may be supplied with the wrong balljoint taper size on the lower arms. I was and had no choice to leave the car in bits for a few days.
5, Final tightening is done with the wheels on the ground, this can be tricky mc dicky, have a think and plan how you are going to do this.

Picture time...

Meyle HD kit ready to go
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/colin__/AA%20Passat%20Highline/DSCF4515_zpsc7yudcxr.jpg

The infamous upper pinch bolt of which I'd pre-sprayed for a week or two before and swapped over the week before the actual arm change.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/colin__/AA%20Passat%20Highline/DSCF4517_zps4wd7ycie.jpg

Upper arms measured and set to the 'design' height, you must set these at the correct angle otherwise the bushes will wear out quickly
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/colin__/AA%20Passat%20Highline/DSCF4525_zpsdyuddmdo.jpg

Stuck taper insert, which is what this thread is all about. It happens and it is tricky to work round.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/colin__/AA%20Passat%20Highline/DSCF4526_zpsr67y1o9t.jpg

And off (holding only once it had cooled down!)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/colin__/AA%20Passat%20Highline/DSCF4527_zpsaehq4djd.jpg

ABS wiring connector behind grommet
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/colin__/AA%20Passat%20Highline/DSCF4530_zpsiegefhho.jpg

Insert going back into the knuckle
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/colin__/AA%20Passat%20Highline/DSCF4531_zpsr6akxhlb.jpg

One vital thing to do is also to maintain the factory set distance of the track rod end to the steering knuckle. This is called the 'S' curve setting or bump steer setting or all manner of other things which I cannot think at this time! Quite simply, this is important as this suspension system steers over a virtual axis which is different to a convential mcpherson strut and wishbone setup. If you don't set the gap correctly you can really mess up the handling of your car! I measured the gap with a feeler gauge and transferred this to the new trackrod end. It is not an ideal method but better than nothing. Also note if you go to 99% of tyre places they will not have even heard of the 'S' curve and will have no idea about setting this whilst doing your tracking. With very rare exceptions, this is a VW / Audi main dealer job only. MAKE SURE YOU GET YOUR FEELER GAUGES OUT AND MEASURE AND TRANSFER THIS DIMENSION KIDS!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/colin__/AA%20Passat%20Highline/DSCF4529_zps7kcum0i9.jpg

Other than that there are loads of guides online.

The only thing I can say and say again, is plan ahead, plan on doing the pinch bolts one weekend and the arms the next weekend.

I'm just a keen DIY'er by the way, but do like plan when undertaking any big job like this.

Nice to see you Col it's been a while :)

[JMR1]

Hi Big Col,
thanks for the very informative description and the pics. I have (not yet anyway) had the pleasure of rebuilding an Audi suspension, but as my car is a 2003 A6 with 13500 miles on the clock, at some point in time I may be faced with this kind of job. Having said that, maybe the suspension in my A6 is a completely different kettle of fish !!! Even so, I am interested and have a few questions if you have the time to explain?
Pic 2:- What makes the pinch bolts do difficult to remove? Is it because the lock nuts strip the threading on the way off? Or like the the track-control arm, the bushing come out with the balljoint because it has annealed to the ball joint itself?
Pic 3:- Setting the height of the upper wishbone arms, are these held in place with off-set bolts, or where is the height adjusted?
Pic 8:-- Track rod end. Showing feeler guages inserted between balljoint gaiter and arm.....the locking bolt shows a slot, so I presume that this bolt is Off-set, and this is what has to be adjusted to take into account the S Curve setting? Does this bolt allow the track rod end ball joint deeper into the arm? or is the ball joing itself off-set?
Sorry for all the questions but as you mentioned in your article, lots of people out there unaware of this S Curve......I know I was not, first time I heard about it was in your Post.
Thanks Jim.

[Cavanmick]

The pinch bolts seize up Jim, they get stuck in the hub so can be very difficult to get out. The top arms are set by changing one at a time, replace one and hold it in the same position as the other one while you tighten the bolt and then replace the other working from the height of the first one, the bottom one's need to be tightened with the weight of the car at rest so that the bushings are not under stress at normal height.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[JMR1]

Thanks Mick, that explains a lot. Just goes to show that nothing is as it seems in this line of business..and lots to learn. Every make has it's own tricks and pitfalls, especially for the 1st timer. Can the upper wishbones swing up or down through a wide arc? or are the metal parts of the bush toothed / notched so they can be set to a specific position with equilivant notches or teeth in the housing?
Also still not too sure about using the feeler guages in the track rod end.....how does that work ?
Thanks and All the Best,
Jim.
PS Its well understood the reason for tightening the lower wishbone while the weight is on it, but would this apply equally to tightening the upper arms too ?

[Cavanmick]

Never used feeler gauges myself, the top arms will just flop about until the bolts are tightened up, it's all easy enough when you are looking at it while doing the job.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[zollaf]

thats what everyone does, but if you google it you find if you go to audi they can set the height on their tracking gear. i can't see it making much difference but apparently it does.

[MarkTM]

but as my car is a 2003 A6 with 13500 miles on the clock

That's under 1200 miles a year...must be one of the lowest mile/year cars on the planet?? :aargh4:

[Col]

Never used feeler gauges myself, the top arms will just flop about until the bolts are tightened up, it's all easy enough when you are looking at it while doing the job.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

The feeler gauges are not used for the top arms, the gap you need to transfer is for the track rod ends which come in most arm kits.

[Cavanmick]

The feeler gauges are not used for the top arms, the gap you need to transfer is for the track rod ends which come in most arm kits.
I see that in your post alright buddy, I've never seen it done that way and I worked in vw for 18 months, as they say every day is a schooldays.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[JMR1]

Hi Mark,
I have it on reliable authority that the milage is genuine since its import to Ireland, back in 2008, as a then 5 year old, and prior to that, I have the service book stamped fully up to date, so I believe its genuine. The only other history I have is that the previous owner was a Mum of two kids ( plenty of evidence of that on the outside , ie Sunblock cream all over it, and in the interior Children generated scuff marks and the usual sticky sweets and ice cream...file:///C:\Users\BLUESK~1\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\ 01\clip_image001.gif ) Also It was parked up for a considerable time underneath trees.......still plenty of green growth to be found under the door mirrors, and in the drain channels for the boot and bonnet.. in fact all the places where the car wash brushes will not reach.file:///C:\Users\BLUESK~1\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\ 01\clip_image002.png But I bought it on the spur of the moment...was parked at the very back of the dealers sight, and a very sick looking baby it was back then...but I always wanted an A6, so I took a chance, and so far, it has paid off.... I'm very happy with it so far. I also have a 2014 Octavia 1.6 Diesel ( herself drives it, and so can I , once I fill in all the forms and give prior notice, but absolutely not on hairdressing day.....
Anyway, I took it out for its maiden voyage 2 weeks ago 450 miles......brilliant car.Unbelievable power, and comfort. Getting back into the Skoda afterwards was a strange experience

[JMR1]

Hi Col, from the pic, seems that the feeler guage is measuring the distance from the top of the ball joint gaiter on the track rod end, to where its entering the turning arm on the hub.......so does this mean that the track rod end can be adjusted as to how high or low it will be in relation to the steering arm?
Thanks
Jim

[Doctle Odd]

The top arms angle is set by measuring down from the top of the strut. 80 mm for the front and 70 mm for the back

[JMR1]

Now thats a straight forward explanation for the top arms.....and no room for error. And unlike the bottom arms,( have to be tightened with the full vehicle weight on them) can be tightened fully while out of the vehicle?
but still looking for answer for what the feeler guage is measuring in BigCols pic? The one where its inserted between the ball joint gaiter and turn arm on the hub. Any ideas about this?

[Doctle Odd]

Short answer, no, long answer any time I did this job I immediately bought the car to a place that sets tracking, camber etc and let them sort it

[Col]

I see that in your post alright buddy, I've never seen it done that way and I worked in vw for 18 months, as they say every day is a schooldays.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Just to add on this, a photo I took of a leaflet which came with a set of Febi arms I fitted a few years back (the Febi arms didn't last well by the way). The 'S' curve, 'Toe' curve adjustment is an important thing not to forget or neglect. The feeler gauge trick is not ideal but better than nothing. Note that 99% of tyre places have never heard of it and really it is a main dealer job only where they use a special jig to obtain the correct alignment.
Next set you do, get your feelers out :beerchug:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/colin__/AA%20Passat%20Highline/DSCF2764_zpsfyvtot4v.jpg

[micheal balbrig]

What exactly is x actually measuring.I know it should be obvious,but
Regards
Michael.

[Col]

Do a search, have a read, for example...

Toe-in curve adjustment - various VAG group vehicles | Professional Motor Mechanic (http://pmmonline.co.uk/technical/toe-curve-adjustment-various-vag-group-vehicles)
http://www.zf.com/brands/content/en/lemfoerder/technology_in_practice_lf/wheel_alignment/wheel-alignment.html

There is loads of info about this little known issue.

[Col]

Just had a re-read through this and to offer some clarification;

There are TWO measurement issues;

1, The angle of the top arms set in relation to the carrier bracket. Two choices, do one top arm at a time and copy the position, but how do you know they were right in the first place? 2nd choice check the specification / design height / angle and measure it. The top arms will flop about until the bolts are done up tight.

Pic below, measuring the top arm design height / angle, nothing more sophisticated than a hacksaw blade laid between the arms and measure up from it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/colin__/AA%20Passat%20Highline/DSCF2726_zpsr6uvof85.jpg

2, The track rod end 'S' / 'Toe' curve setting. As I've said every single tyre / tracking place I've been to has had no idea about this and it would a lot of mechanics don't either. If this isn't set properly it can really upset the handling. As you can only really get this done at the dealers (VW or Audi) and normal tracking places cannot do as they have never even heard of it, it makes sense to measure what yours was set at on the old TRE's and transfer to the new ones. It is not ideal but better than slapping the new TRE on and banging it down to the stop!

TRE height setting
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/colin__/AA%20Passat%20Highline/DSCF4529_zps7kcum0i9.jpg


By far the hardest part of the suspension swap is supposed to be the dreaded upper pinch bolt. I was lucky with it I think but my forward planning probably paid off in me giving them a squirt of plusgas every day for a few weeks before, although tight they came out without much fuss. I've read of proper nightmares though regarding these pinch bolts. As I've said do them first, a weekend before.

But for me the worse part of the job was releasing the lower arm balljoints which strangely is something that everyone else seems to have no trouble with. The same as the OP, the taper would not break and the taper insert came out with the balljoint after some serous large hammer violence.

I've done two sets of these arms on the same car, my current good old 2003 Passat TDI Highline estate. The first set I changed were replaced by a Febi Bilstein kitwhich I though would be a good compromise between cost and quality. At the time the Febi kit cost me £300 as opposed to a Meyle or Lemforder kit at £400. Disappointingly the Febi kit let me down badly, first of all about six months after fitting one of the lower arm boots split and resulted in an annoying squeaking noise. I replaced that single arm with a cheap OCAP item from Eurocarparts, which was as good as gold. Then, two and a bit years after fitting a knock developed which was two of the upper arm balljoints which had movement in them, both passenger side. They would have been an MOT fail.

I toyed with the idea of just replacing those two arms but came to the conclusion that the Febi kit was junk so bit the bullet and planned to do another complete swap. Since I last bought a kit the Meyle ones had dropped quite a bit in price so I went for a set.

Second time round I thought it would be easier as everything was oiled and greased when I fitted the Febi set. Nope, all good except the damned lower arm balljoints again! Exactly as the first time round the lower arm tapers wouldn't release. This time though I knew what to do and straight away went to my Plan B which was to whip the whole knuckle off so I could inflict extreme hammer violence on the bench rather than under the car. Much more comfy.

I ramble on but this isn't a job to be taken lightly.

If you are a DIY'er make sure you have a selction of 15mm, 16mm and 18mm spanners and sockets. I say this as some basic DIY type tool kits will not have these sizes.

[JMR1]

Thanks Big Col,
very informative visit to Professional Motor Mechanic, now all is explained, so in this case, the track rod end is not tapered ( 1st time I have ever encountered that kind of end, and at a guess many others as well ) and the measurement is of the amount the end is inserted into the steering arm. :beerchug:

[Col]

Yes, there is no taper on them. It seems a lot of people when fitting them slam them down as far as they will go but you need to measure and transfer the gap from the old one, which can effect the handling quite badly if you read up on this.

[JMR1]

Slamming them down would be the normal procedure, based on the tried ( but in this case, untrue ) scenario that they should be tightened to the makers name, in order for the taper to lock...some mistake in this case. First time I have ever heard of it. Assuming that the new end is a carbon copy genuine version of the original, would be ok to measure the protruding bit? And yes, it seems that the effect the wrong settings can have are really out of all proportion to the MM's in question. Quite a complicated design set-up.
For the top arms, the measurement shown on the tape is the correct one, set them level at that, and lock them up? Or set the suspension top in the vise spirit-level horizontal, and the same for the two arms after that? :beerchug:

[JMR1]

Hi All, back home again and was checking underneath the A6 that the battery tray water drain was free and clear ( it was, some enterprising soul had thoughtfully removed the rubber valve from the bottom of the drain pipe, and it was clear all the way up.) Then there was the occasional kind of judder when moving off from the stopped position, which reminded me of engine / gearbox mountings, when a tickle of the accelerator would straighten it out. All the mountings seemed ok, no obvious un natural movements in them.
However, same cannot be said for the PS track control arm, and to a lesser extent, the DS track control arm, plus the ball joint rubbers are all worn, and running dry, even if the ball joints them selves are still solid ( Passed NCT recently, with not much mileage done since) So now best thing for me to do will be to replace the TC arms on both sides, plus the ball joints and any other links. Now my question is, what is the best kit to get? and what should it contain? Your advice will be much appreciated..

[Col]

Lemforder are the same as the originally fitted items.

I've fitted a Febi kit but it didn't last.

Now running a Meyle HD kit.

Don't fit a £100 e-bay kit!

[azumore]

Hi guys,

I agree with you BigCol , don't make the mistake take I did of buying Cheap eBay rubbish.

I bought a set of meyle arms after learning my lesson. Cost about 300 pounds, but has everything in it plus you get a 4 years warranty.

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[MiniMental]

I'm running a £120 Amazon kit which is still like new. And I live out in the sticks with potholed country roads in every direction. Been on the car for two years now. (Got me out of a hole at the time as was broke and needed car) maybe I got lucky.

Mini

[fishybusiness]

Didn't want to pay the dealer to set up the toe curve when I did mine. Tried a 6mm drop from fully pulled up, not so nice, then a 4mm drop, which is where I have left it. The 4mm comes from the one of the setting tools, from memory ZF, the instructions for use are online somewhere. Anyway, had the tracking set afterwards and it feels spot on, drives straight, corners well and tyres look ok. Mine is a Sport, the settings are slightly different I believe.

I set the 4mm by using the 13mm headed bolt in the top of the track rod end. Tighten it gently with TRE clamp bolt loose, so as the bring the TRE to the top of its travel. The bolt is 1.25mm pitch, so 3 turns gives 3.75mm plus 2 flats gives 0.4mm. Ok so just over 4mm.....So if you turn the bolt 3 turns plus 2 flats of the hexagon you have your setting. Pull the track rod ends down until bolt head does not move freely, tighten clamp bolt.

Worked well for me.

JMR1 - fitted a Meyle HD arm kit last year, bought from eBay and had troubles. Strut bush in one side came loose, replaced both, and rear lower arm rear bush on one side started to fail. Swapped them and all is ok, although I still have a knock from somewhere.

Rear arms swapped for Lemforder - no issues with them. If I do it again probably put Lemforder on as I really don't want to be laying it up again swapping out low quality parts.
Maybe the eBay Meyle parts were not genuine, bags looked right, branding was cast in to parts so can't really say.

[JMR1]

Dear All,
Thanks for your helpfull advice . Next question does anyone have a link to a good supplier for ( A ) complete kit, or ( B ) L & R Track Control Arms and the support arms ( not sure what is their proper description...) but they link from the body to the TC arms. As Big Col suggests ,and everyone else is
?


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[MarkTM]

JMR, I've always followed this sequence when ordering parts

1) Find out the OEM part numbers and costs
2) Check if there is anything better
3) Search ebay for new (1 or 2) determined to not pay anything greater than 50% of the dealer cost

As a result I've got some stuff like boxed OEM TRE's for less than a 3rd the price from a dealer.

In your case am guessing you have to build in extra shipping and the delays....unless you've anyone to bring the stuff over to you.

[fishybusiness]

I do same as MarkTm above, also...

It is worth trying Jason at allgermanparts, very helpful and knowledgeable guy.

Home page (http://www.allgermanparts.co.uk)

[JMR1]

Didn't want to pay the dealer to set up the toe curve when I did mine. Tried a 6mm drop from fully pulled up, not so nice, then a 4mm drop, which is where I have left it. The 4mm comes from the one of the setting tools, from memory ZF, the instructions for use are online somewhere. Anyway, had the tracking set afterwards and it feels spot on, drives straight, corners well and tyres look ok. Mine is a Sport, the settings are slightly different I believe.

I set the 4mm by using the 13mm headed bolt in the top of the track rod end. Tighten it gently with TRE clamp bolt loose, so as the bring the TRE to the top of its travel. The bolt is 1.25mm pitch, so 3 turns gives 3.75mm plus 2 flats gives 0.4mm. Ok so just over 4mm.....So if you turn the bolt 3 turns plus 2 flats of the hexagon you have your setting. Pull the track rod ends down until bolt head does not move freely, tighten clamp bolt.

Worked well for me.

JMR1 - fitted a Meyle HD arm kit last year, bought from eBay and had troubles. Strut bush in one side came loose, replaced both, and rear lower arm rear bush on one side started to fail. Swapped them and all is ok, although I still have a knock from somewhere.

Rear arms swapped for Lemforder - no issues with them. If I do it again probably put Lemforder on as I really don't want to be laying it up again swapping out low quality parts.
Maybe the eBay Meyle parts were not genuine, bags looked right, branding was cast in to parts so can't really say.
Sorry for delay in replying, but time schedule got completely out of hand 😕. One question, if the TRE bolt was completely removed, while leaving the horizontal bolt in pace,should be possible to measure the distance from the top of the arm down into the TRE shank? I am sure that your thread count method would work out fine too.
Thanks for your help.

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[Col]

Do it the way I did it, measure the gap at the bottom.

If the gap is small you can, as I did use feeler gauges. If the gap is bigger then use the nearest diameter allen key or drill bit and or feeler gauges.

[fishybusiness]

Sorry for delay in replying, but time schedule got completely out of hand ��. One question, if the TRE bolt was completely removed, while leaving the horizontal bolt in pace,should be possible to measure the distance from the top of the arm down into the TRE shank? I am sure that your thread count method would work out fine too.

Definitely the most accurate way. Mine didn't handle correctly when I bought it, TRE's had been changed and not set up, so after the suspension rebuild I had to work out how best to set them....If the settings were correct before I started I would have used your method :-)

[JMR1]

Hi Big Col,
So it still all boils down to the fact if the TRE being replaced was positioned correctly when fitted. If its still the original, TRE, then should be Ok ( unless there are other variables to be taken into account:- minute wear and tear all over the other components, which would mean that after fitting, would still have to take the car to a VAG dealer and have them set it up again from scratch )
But to get back to measuring the proper gap, in your pic, the feeler guage is measuring from the top of the rubber boot on the ball joint, to the underside of the steering arm.....is there an edge or mark on the shank ( which is covered by the rubber in your pic, and cannot be seen) to take the measurement from?
Thanks Jim.

[Col]

Yes, you are not measuring against the boot. Look at the pics again or look at your car, it'll be obvious once you start.

As for doing this, the correct way would be to take it to the dealer and have this set up properly. However the next best but not ideal thing to do is as I've described and that is to measure the setting of your existing TRE's before taking them off so you can transfer that measurement to the new ones.

There must be thousands of badly handling A4's, A6's, Superbs and Passats out there where whoever (garages included) have simply slammed any replacement TRE's down onto the stops!

My method is not ideal but better than nothing !

[JMR1]

I agree 100% with you on othat, BigCol.Any mechanics I have spoken to were not aware of it, even some VAG guys...but good to know in any case.

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[Homeworker]

Hi all, I know this isn't a new thread I'm new here, I have removed the front left lower rear control arm and upon removal I had the same issue with the collar/Bush coming out with the ball joint (not the issue I'm struggling with) but I upon removal of rear bolt the whole suspension leg jumped forwards and under alot of tension, how would I relieve the tension to get the new arm in place?

Thanks all.

[Roverfan]

Hi all, I know this isn't a new thread I'm new here, I have removed the front left lower rear control arm and upon removal I had the same issue with the collar/Bush coming out with the ball joint (not the issue I'm struggling with) but I upon removal of rear bolt the whole suspension leg jumped forwards and under alot of tension, how would I relieve the tension to get the new arm in place?

Thanks all.

I assume it's because you've only lifted one side. Both wheels need to be off ground to take the tension off the anti roll bar

[Homeworker]

I assume it's because you've only lifted one side. Both wheels need to be off ground to take the tension off the anti roll bar

Thank-you so much! Really appreciate the help!