2003 Audi 1.9 TDI AVF Engine Question

[JMR1]

Hi All,
was just looking at some other posts on the forum concerning newer A6's , especially from late 2004 ( facelifted model ) up to 2006. Seems that these diesel engines were prone to injector and timing chain issues, which seem to have been ironed out from 2006 onwards. Did the earlier1.9's ( especially mine !!! 2003 AVN 1.9 TDI :zx11: ) have these problems?
Thanks in advance.

[Cavanmick]

No buddy, no chain on the 1.9s, they were pretty much bulletproof as long as they get oil changes.

[Gazwould]

Injector loom usually breaks down after 200K .

[JMR1]

Thanks Gazworld, assuming that the clock is telling the truth, @ 130'000 Mls, I have a fair bit to go yet. But for a part to hold for 200'000 Miles, is not so bad. Are they expensive to buy, and complicated to fit? or just straight forward remove / replace? or will need re/programming, which could be done with the VCDS unit recommended in this forum? Do you have the same car as me? 2003 Audi A6 S6 RS6 1.9 TDI ? What kind of problems have you had with it?
Thanks for you help and advice...this will be my first A6 experience, and I plan it as a hobby car, but also as a comfortable workhouse.
All the Best,
Jim

[Gazwould]

Hi Jimbo , got a 2003 AVF 1.9 tdi Passat, they are very closely related to a C5 A6 .

Usual water ingress and a dead locked door .

Bottom right of your build sticker do you have OGE or OGZ ?

[JMR1]

Hi Gazwould, sorry for delayed reply...travelling a lot lately. Under the heading M-AUSSI./OPTIONS
EOA OGE 4UF 6XD
What does this mean? Thanks,
Jim

[Crasher]

EOA , not listed so probably F0A (standard vehicles, not special version), no OGE code so probably 0GE (EU3 emissions standards), 4UF (drivers and passengers air bag with passengers override switch) and 6XD (electric and heated door mirrors) are known as PR codes and denotes features fitted to the car.

[JMR1]

Thanks crasher. Underneath the EOA OGE 4UF 6KD Line are the following linrs:-
1KD JOR 1LB 1BV
3FA 5TM 7XO
FOA 8GU OG1 OYC OJH
T9J 3ND BJK U1D X2B 1N1
2PV 3HA 8G1 9GO 8Z5 D3E
7QO CL6 7KO 4X1 VJ1 6R2
3PF 4KC 3YO 4K4 5D1
1SA Q1D 4GP

1539 7,9 4,9 6,0 161

Thats everything on the sticker in the boot, ,,,,thanks for having a look, Jim

[Crasher]

1KD rear discs 245x10 Lucas TRW
J0R 80aH/380A battery
1LB front discs 288x25 ITT ATE
1BV Sports suspension by Quattro GMBH
3FA No sunroof
5TM Glossy aluminium dash and door panel inlay trims
7X0 No rear parking aid
F0A Not listed
8GU 140A alternator
0G1 Manual with selector rods
0YC Rear axle weight range 3
0JH front axle weight range 8
T9J 4 cyl TD AVF or AWX
3ND Non folding rear seat backrest
BJK Not listed
U1D Not listed
X2B Not listed
1N1Not listed
2PV Sports steering wheel for air bag
3HA Door panel trim foil/cloth
8G1 Not listed
9G0 Not listed
8Z5 Engine coolant system version 1
D3E 4 cyl TD 96Kw
7Q0 No navigation
CL6 7.5Jx17H2 Et43 alloys wheels
7K0 No tyre pressure control system
4X1 front side air bags
VJ1 Reinforced bumpers
6R2 Not listed, possibly “no centre arm rest”
3PF Electric height adjust front seats
4KC Green tinted glass for doors, side and rear
3Y0 Not listed but probably “no rear window blind”
4K4 Not listed but probably “green tinted laminated windscreen”
5D1 433.92Mhz remote control central locking
1SA Not listed but probably “no engine protection grill”
Q1D Sports seats front and rear
4GP Windscreen with sight glass for VIN

[fishybusiness]

170k AVF TDi, thermostat, coolant sensor, fuel temp loom issue and new EGR, Tunit V-PD fitted, turned right up, no issues at all.

Bit of oil smoke on startup, clears quickly, could well be turbo seals.......

Probably the most reliable part of the car :D

[JMR1]

So apart from the following :-
FOA,BJK,U1D,X2B, 1N1, 8G1 9GO AND 6R2 IT HAS ARMREST, 3YO,DOES NOT HAVE REAR WINDOW BLIND, 4K4,TINTED GLASS YES,1SA, ENG PROTECTION GRILL, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THIS IS. .Most likely these ones are for varients.
Everything else is spot on. Loads of information there. Thanks a lot Crasher.
,

[JMR1]

Hi fishybusiness, one of the reasons my A6 was traded in was because it was starting to overheat,,,,so first thing I had done was new thermostat, water pump, and as a matter of standard operating procedure, new timing belt, change all oil's, inc gearbox and all filters,Air, Pollen, Oil, and Diesel. The milage at this point was 135000 miles, but after all this was carried out, I discovered another entry in the service manual,saying "Full Service carried out at 132000 miles. ...." but anyway, better safe than sorry. Since then I have driven it more than 400 miles, and found no major faults. ...like yours, slight smoking on acceleration, but this quickly clears.I am still trying to contact the former owner for a bit of more detailed history.All lights and gauges are spot on, no warnings of any kind.....long may it continue like this. If there was one thing I would be concerned about is at time's ,and not very often either, slight judder when moving off,,,,feels like engine or gearbox mounting on the way out. .....could also be from the clutch. ....have to wait and see now until I get back home again. Of course it could be something else entirely too,just feels like mountings to me And after covering 400plus miles, what do I think? Lovely car to drive more comfortable even than the family car, 2014 Skoda Octavia!1.6 diesel, So, roll on the next few months and I get home for round 2. !!!

[fishybusiness]

You've reminded me of something - mine used to judder when setting off, seemed worse when cold and I used to stall it sometimes - just a tad embarrassing!

Couldn't work out what the problem was, after about 6 months of ownership decided to deal with the front suspension rattles and groans. Gearbox bearings started to get really noisy really quickly - 6 speeder, so it had to come out. Long and short of it was that I changed the clutch/ flywheel and front arms and the judder went away.

Clutch was worn but didn't look failed or warped in any way, that would have been my first guess as cause of the judder, did the worn suspension bushes contribute? Don't know to be honest, after reassembly all was ok. Be worth checking mounts and bushes before committing to a clutch fault.

The smoke I referred to was on startup - blue smoke, clears after a few seconds, always get black smoke when accelerating hard.

Yes, comfy and great on the motorway - I fitted cruise to mine, didn't come as standard, should have been standard fitment on these cars.

[Gazwould]

Egr disable or delete and 2 Stoke helps with producing less smoke .

[JMR1]

Hi again fishybusiness, the clutch feels fine,without any slippage,. When its parked and in neutral, if you give the accelerator a slight nudge, you can feel the engine and body twisting with the torque it produces, it's some engine for a 1.9. While it's at home on the motorway, it handles surprisingly well on the local back roads,considering its size etc.Amazing car all round, any of my friends who have driven it were very impressed. The retro fitting of the cruise control, did it present any major problems? Would be something to think about for the future.
The suspensions and arms all seems to be fine, no knocking or banging, and keeps a very straight line on the steering,no drifting left or right. Like wise,no gearbox whining, so may be lucky there too. Was it a big job to do the bearings? Main shaft bearings, I suppose? But I will take your advice about checking the front bushes etc first,and see hw I get on with that. For the moment, the smoking does not bother me too much....passed the nct 3 weeks ago, so happy enough with that for now.
Thanks for your helpfull advice,

[JMR1]

Hi Gazwould, I see EGR mentioned in these forums, ,,,,but am not really familiar with them. What's the advantages of removin it? And is it a big job? Meaning computer resetting etc after the mechanical bit is finished? And its 2 stroke oil as used in lawnmowers etc,you speak about, to be added to the diesel when filling up? How much to add? The smoking doesn't really bother me too much TBH.....if one of us has to smoke better the car then me....😊

[Gazwould]

2 simple things , egr disable is pull egr vac line and plug it , optional is a slip in blank between exhaust manifold and egr feed tube .

Benefits are the exhaust gasses that pass to the egr are now driving the turbo for an earlier spool , low gear drivability is increased , and no eml for you as OGE .

Engine oil stays cleaner for longer and less soot out of exhaust as it's not rebreathing its own soot .

2 Stroke , use JASO FB spec commonly found in Asda etc .

Dose 250 ml to a tank it works because it's adding lubrication to low sulphur fuel and cleans because it contains detergents.

More info here
Effects of 2t oil added to diesel cars.

Due to the pollution control measures of the EC diesel-oil is nearly sulphur free and contains up to 5% of bio-diesel. Sulphur has the property to grease the high pressure injection pump and the injectors. Without sulphur, the reduced greasing property of the new diesel has already shown negative impacts on the long-term stability of the injectors and the high pressure pump. The pump manufacturers have tried to react by lining the moving parts of the pumps with Teflon or other suitable material. However, the long term stability is still not achieved as with the old (sulphur contained) diesel.
The engine-research centre of a well-known German car manufacturer has conducted some long term tests of diesel additives to find out whether any one of them will have an impact on the long term reliability of the diesel engine components. This introduction to explain were my information comes from.
The results of this research: any diesel additive of any manufacturer presently on the market is not worth the money!
BUT: 2-stroke oil, which we use in our motor saws, lawn mower or in 2-stroke motor engines has shown to have an extreme positive impact on diesel engines, if such 2-stroke oil is added to the diesel in a homeopathic doses of 1:200. In practical terms: 0,300 litre of 2-stroke oil into the 70l diesel tank. The 2-stroke oil will be absorbed by the diesel (emulsion) and grease every moving part of the high pressure pump and the injectors.
Besides this, the 2-stroke oil will keep the diesel engine clean, as it burns cleaner as the diesel itself.
In other words, the 2-stroke oil has a much lower ash-content as diesel, when burned. This proven fact delays the DPF (diesel particulate (soot) filter) to clog, and the "burn free" process of the DPF will be much less.
More information: in Germany we have to present our cars every 2 years to the TUV -Technical Supervision Organisation - who will check, amongst others, the pollution of petrol and diesel engines.
The measured cloud-factor of a diesel engine without use of 2-stroke oil has been 0,95.
The same factor with the use of 2-stroke oil has been 0,47 - reduction of nearly half of the soot particles.
Besides this, the use of 2-stroke oil in the diesel will increase the mileage by 3-5%.

Also increases diesels cetane number .

[Crasher]

Disabling your EGR is illegal under European Law and an environmental crime, it massively increases NOX emissions which are the main cause of the current diesel hate campaign and it increases fuel consumption.

[Gazwould]

They are focusing on NO2 Nitrogen dioxide not NOX .

I'll have to remember my enviromental crimes of a decated , egr disabled AVF next time it hits 60 mpg , lol .

They should arrest instead people that see 30 mpg because of old thermostats and coolant temperature sensors .

[fishybusiness]

Gearbox was rebuilt - not by me, all bearings were replaced.

Cruise - you can buy the stalk with wiring attached in the UK, or maybe get one off a scrapper. Wiring was a pain to work out as the diagram was rubbish. Lots of reading and I sorted it - need to remove the cover from ECU drivers side plenum. No biggie, easy to do, if you do get around to it I'd be happy to lift lid on mine to write down the wiring connections......

Re judder, you may just have a worn bush or two, or a mount I guess.

EGR - there is debate all over the net, I cleaned mine last year and this year decided it was past it. Replaced mine rather than delete or disable, really as I like quicker warm up for short journeys. Quite happy with a new valve fitted.

[Crasher]

They are focusing on NO2 Nitrogen dioxide not NOX .

:rolleyes: NOX is Nitrogen Dioxide, NOX stands for the various mono-nitrogen oxides NO and NO2, nitric oxide and Nitrogen Dioxide :banghead:

[JMR1]

Just to put the pollution issue into perspective, GOOGLE Shipping Pollution,Theguardian.com|By John Vidal
Pretty frightening stuff.

[Crasher]

I can't get to that post old man but I can guess what it says.....

[JMR1]

Maybe even worse than you think...was given to me by a friend, who is a ships engineer...but to be sure, you will have to read it, young fella... :)

[Crasher]

Found it. As I have read before, a major part of the issue is the dreadful fuel they use, it makes UK pump diesel seem like drinking water!

[JMR1]

That's for sure Crasher, ,,,Oil so thick its almost a solid, they have to heat it up before using it. And the health risks it carries, unbelievable. Very understandable my engineer friend is worried about his own health, having worked with this stuff for years.

[T!M]

Hi JMR1,
I started to get a judder when pulling away and thought it might be the clutch starting to let go.
It disappeared completely after I overhauled the air intake system.
New air filter and cleaned the intake ducts, removed and cleaned the MAF sensor with Wynn's air intake and carb cleaner, removed and cleaned the anti-shudder valve, de-coked the EGR valve and inlet manifold and port flaps (amazing how much crud came out of them!) and replaced all the gaskets.
It took about 4hrs to strip, clean and re-assemble everything.
Mines an A4 2.0 tdi but the principle must be the same, increased clean air flow creates a bigger bang, producing more torque, decreasing the shudder apparent when overcoming inertia.

[JMR1]

Hi JMR1,
I started to get a judder when pulling away and thought it might be the clutch starting to let go.
It disappeared completely after I overhauled the air intake system.
New air filter and cleaned the intake ducts, removed and cleaned the MAF sensor with Wynn's air intake and carb cleaner, removed and cleaned the anti-shudder valve, de-coked the EGR valve and inlet manifold and port flaps (amazing how much crud came out of them!) and replaced all the gaskets.
It took about 4hrs to strip, clean and re-assemble everything.
Mines an A4 2.0 tdi but the principle must be the same, increased clean air flow creates a bigger bang, producing more torque, decreasing the shudder apparent when overcoming inertia.
Sorry for the delayed reply T!M:
I was on the road a lot recently [emoji3] Thanks for the helpful advice. ..will follow through on it. Air filter is new, but I am pretty sure that the MAF sensor and EGR valve would need cleaning and decoking. The anti - shudder valve I don't know about. ..where is it located? For the inlet manifold, I presume you removed it from the engine?
For a different problem I encounted, ( turbo problem, loss of power under load,and limp home mode )
One simple thing I did was to add 50 ml 2 stroke oil to a full tank of fuel ....amazing result so far,no turbo lag or loss of power. Still have to hook it up to the trailer though...then we will see what happens. ...[emoji6]
Thanks again for your helpfull advice,
All the best, Ji

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[Gazwould]

Only 50 ml mate , use 250 - 300 ml .


10 Litre Diesel ---> 50 Ml.
20 Litre Diesel ---> 100 Ml
30 Litre Diesel ---> 150 Ml.
40 Litre Diesel ---> 200 Ml.
50 Litre Diesel ---> 250 Ml.
60 Litre Diesel ---> 300 Ml.
70 Litre Diesel ---> 350 Ml.
80 Litre Diesel ---> 400 Ml.
90 Litre Diesel ---> 450 Ml.
100 Litre Diesel ---> 500 Ml.

To prevent overboost limp mode on a vnt turbo , decoke the hotside with Mr Muscle .

[JMR1]

Was just the small bottle you add to the 5 ltr container for chainsaws. ......so any improvement that followed is purely coincidental 😕. ....will have to check again under load, next time I am back home. Thanks for the amount table, ,, very useful.

[Gazwould]

JASO FB spec as well as its a mineral as synthetic FC and FD done burn as good .

Asda sell it .

[JMR1]

JASO FB spec as well as its a mineral as synthetic FC and FD done burn as good .

Asda sell it .
The 2T I used was from Husquvarna. ...next time, will give heavier dose.....lol ☺

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[T!M]

You're welcome,
I'm no expert but have a modicum of engineering nouse.
I've had the confidence to give it a go as a result of reading threads and following the advice of experienced members like Crasher and A8 Tech (thanks!).
My tdi was going into limp mode on the motorway when I got above 60 mph and had a P0234 code.
A mate replaced the MAF sensor on his A6 to cure the same code but I thought I'd save £60 and try cleaning it first and it worked.
It's got tamper proof screws holding it in to the housing but they weren't a match for mole grips and determination.
I think it's a temperature and pressure sensor and is very delicate so I didn't touch the sensor surfaces, just sprayed carb cleaner at it a few times and blew the excess off.

My A4 anti-shudder valve (throttle body) is bolted to the bottom of the EGR valve with the hose from the intercooler clipped to it, that wasn't coked up, just oily, I'm not sure if it was from the gunk dribbling out of the EGR or dirty air from the turbo.

Yep, removed the inlet manifold (the top middle bolt is inside it and hidden by a layer of carbon deposits).
If you're going to remove it try to give all the external surfaces in the vicinity a good clean to remove loose dirt from the area before you start disassembling stuff, you don't want any grit going into the block ports when you pop the manifold off.
All the gaskets and o-rings I removed looked in pretty good shape and probably could have been re-used but you won't know until you take them off, and they're only a few quid from Audi or GSF so it's worth replacing them.
Other must haves are a supply of gloves and rags (it's dirty work!) rubber gloves are best when using EGR cleaner and carb cleaner as this stuff melts the latex ones, and a bottle brush to get round the angles of the intlet manifold.
Make sure there's no loose contamination in any of the bits before you re-assemble everything and that the valve flaps operate smoothly, spring back when released and seat correctly. My throttle body had a removable cover over the gears that I removed to make sure the cogs weren't damaged.
I haven't tried adding 2 stroke oil to the tank, judging from what came out of my fuel filter there was enough oil in there already from a knackered tandem pump!
28742

Have fun and don't stain the driveway!

[JMR1]

Those are easy enough instructions to follow T!M. Would spraying carb cleaner into the MAF housing be enough to clean it? And yes I agree there are great advisers on this forum.Very helpfull.Thanks again.

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[T!M]

It might be, you'd have to remove the housing outlet hose to see it, the intake side that faces the airfilter has a diffuser covering it, the mesh is quite fine so once I'd removed the sensor I washed the housing to get rid of any obstructions to the airflow. You'll see what I mean if you google images for 074906461B.
I'm not sure what effect the carb cleaner would have on the plastic ducting and if it would melt it.
There's only two screws holding the sensor to the housing and the housing to the airfilter assy.
Check what screws you have in your throttle body, EGR valve and MAF sensor housing, some of mine were spline drive, I got a set of bits from a local indy tool shop for a tenner. You should really torque the manifold bolts up when you refit it.
It's all worth the effort though, after the air intake system clean and running some BG244 in the fuel the engine is quieter, acceleration is smoother and more responsive. I was really suprised by the results. My traction control light has started coming on with hard acceleration in a straight line!

[JMR1]

It might be, you'd have to remove the housing outlet hose to see it, the intake side that faces the airfilter has a diffuser covering it, the mesh is quite fine so once I'd removed the sensor I washed the housing to get rid of any obstructions to the airflow. You'll see what I mean if you google images for 074906461B.
I'm not sure what effect the carb cleaner would have on the plastic ducting and if it would melt it.
There's only two screws holding the sensor to the housing and the housing to the airfilter assy.
Check what screws you have in your throttle body, EGR valve and MAF sensor housing, some of mine were spline drive, I got a set of bits from a local indy tool shop for a tenner. You should really torque the manifold bolts up when you refit it.
It's all worth the effort though, after the air intake system clean and running some BG244 in the fuel the engine is quieter, acceleration is smoother and more responsive. I was really suprised by the results. My traction control light has started coming on with hard acceleration in a straight line!
Hi T!M,
Yes, I googled the part and see what you mean. Not such a big job to dismantle it,and then give it a careful clean. I have a pretty good set òf sockets inc torx,hex and splined, so should have the right ones. Will try this when I get back home, ,,,,another one to add to the List😒 but it keeps me busy,and when it works out, gives a lot of satisfaction 😊. Also have to replace the front suspension / steering links., was supposed to get it done last visit home,but ran out of time. Lots of good advice on that job here on the forum too.
Thanks again, Jim

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[Crasher]

Don't spray anything up the inlet of a diesel engine, if a decent amount of whatever solvent you used pools and is then drawn into the engine, the result can be catastrophic diesel runaway. If you clean anything, take it off for cleaning, blow it dry before re-fitting. Cleaning the AMM in my experience is a waste of time, the only 99% sure way to know that an AMM is working is to fit a new genuine VAG dealer supplied exchnage unit. I say 99% as in the last year I have had two genuine AMM's be faulty straight out of the box.

[JMR1]

Don't spray anything up the inlet of a diesel engine, if a decent amount of whatever solvent you used pools and is then drawn into the engine, the result can be catastrophic diesel runaway. If you clean anything, take it off for cleaning, blow it dry before re-fitting. Cleaning the AMM in my experience is a waste of time, the only 99% sure way to know that an AMM is working is to fit a new genuine VAG dealer supplied exchnage unit. I say 99% as in the last year I have had two genuine AMM's be faulty straight out of the box.
Good advice Crasher, might develop runaway diesel syndrome. ...LOL.....and that would not be funny at all! Would depend on the quantity sprayed into it, as you say, " POOLING ". You mentioned the AMM unit. ..is this another name for the Air Mass Sensor? IE " Air Mass Monitor "?
Thanks. Jim

Hi T!M,
Yes, I googled the part and see what you mean. Not such a big job to dismantle it,and then give it a careful clean. I have a pretty good set òf sockets inc torx,hex and splined, so should have the right ones. Will try this when I get back home, ,,,,another one to add to the List😒 but it keeps me busy,and when it works out, gives a lot of satisfaction 😊. Also have to replace the front suspension / steering links., was supposed to get it done last visit home,but ran out of time. Lots of good advice on that job here on the forum too.
Thanks again, Jim

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[Gazwould]

Have you disabled the egr yet Jim ?

It's as simple as..




http://s24.postimg.org/mz3fbb391/dsc00068bx.jpg

[JMR1]

Hi Gazwould,
No I have not....The nr of things I did NOT do on my last visit is staggering beyond belief....Just ask my Wife.......have to wait until next time. But I am not too much in favour of altering or removing any standard engine part, based on the principle that the engineers who designed it, know a lot more than me about these things,and that's why its there. And as far as I can tell, it's not hurting the performance in any way. So for now, I will leave well enough alone. Only power problem I have had with it was after pulling a load of firewood, the engine lost power, but next day, and since then.. no problem. Will have to try it with the trailer again. Most likely, as diagnosed here on the forum, turbo vanes sticking. Did put a small amount of 2T oil into the tank, and that seems to have improved it ( or else just coincidence :o ) For sure though, blanking off the EGR is a simple enough operation, Thanks for the info.

[Crasher]

Yes, AMM is Air Mass Meter, the correct VAG name for this component in the VAG parts system, the workshop system usually refers to it as the AVM for Air Volume Meter.

Disconnecting your EGR system is illegal. There have been many articles in the news of late showing how NOX emissions (those the EGR helps deal with) are spiralling out of control due primarily to Diesel engines having their system shut out, by recommending and proliferating this problem, YOU are increasing the pressure being applied to the continued use of Rudolf's infernal compression ignition monstrosity!

[Gazwould]

Thankfully Crasher is in the minority , predictable and gets off on reminding us of our environmental sins , it's boring the poo poo out of me ...

The loss of power is probably sticking vnt overboost limp mode and Mr Muscle method or strip and clean is the way forward.

Even if it isn't the cause , it isn't a wasted task .

[Cavanmick]

Just for the benefit of crasher, Jim is in ireland (or at least his car is..lol) and it is NOT illegal to remove or blank an egr valve.!!!! I have a drawer full of them off pajeros in my tool box.

[Crasher]

Thankfully Crasher is in the minority , predictable and gets off on reminding us of our environmental sins , it's boring the poo poo out of me ...

The loss of power is probably sticking vnt overboost limp mode and Mr Muscle method or strip and clean is the way forward.

Even if it isn't the cause , it isn't a wasted task .

I get frustrated by people who **** up their cars emissions systems, not purely because I am an asthma sufferer and NOX emissions are a know trigger BUT also because the interfering meddling busy body ***** in Brussels see the figures from the air monitoring stations doted around the UK and see for themselves the rising figures and deduce from these that their previous efforts (EU1, 2, 3, 4 and 5) have not worked so then plan the introduction of more punitive measures such as EU6, 6.1 and 6.2 which are going to cause all of us trouble, if you thought EU5 and the DPF were traumatic, wait until EU6.2 comes in! You also get screw up's like in the news last night where VW have been caught with their software around their ankles as their cars were having trouble passing EPA laws in California, which are the worst anywhere and the ones that the EU look to for inspiration. The whole thing is getting out of control due mainly to people removing emissions devices. A proposal (now abandoned) to drop the M1 speed limit to 50 around Sheffield raised section were specifically thought up due to the levels of NOX emissions emitted by cars with deleted emission systems. Basically, those people **** it up for everyone else who drives a petrol vehicle or non illegally modified diesel, it is a typical example of the rule of life which states that the minority **** it up for the majority....

Mr Muscle ***** the turbo exhaust side seals up by causing rust due to it's caustic and water content, I have had an innumerable number of them in with this and reports back from Midland Turbo's sating that there was corrosion damage to the spindle consummate with their experiences of people using oven cleaner instead of especially designed chemicals and their post treatment flushes that do not contain water but still don't work long term. When the turbo side seals fail due to this, the clean up costs are huge as getting a couple of litres of oil out of the exhaust system takes hours and litres of expensive TFR.


Just for the benefit of crasher, Jim is in ireland (or at least his car is..lol) and it is NOT illegal to remove or blank an egr valve.!!!! I have a drawer full of them off pajeros in my tool box.

It is illegal under EU law and as far as I remember Ireland is a member of the EU is it not?

[Col]

Consider yourselves all bollocked by the man that knows !

Always makes me laugh watching someone getting a bollocking.

[Gazwould]

What is the recommended cheaper turbo cleaner , and it's method ?

[JMR1]

What is the recommended cheaper turbo cleaner , and it's method ?
Be interesting to see what are the answers to your question Gazwould....for sure,I would not try any of these utube methods where mr muscle or similar are pumped into the turbo while it is still on the engine, and then trying to remove all the gunk that will be loosened, but leaving the start up exhaust gases to finish the job,( which will cause more problems downstream of the turbo)

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[Gazwould]

Contrary to what Crasher has said I've got my ear to 4 VAG forums and no one is moaning about Mr Muscle is killing their turbo .

And we wouldn't have to do a decoke of the turbo if it wasn't for an egr recycling sooty exhaust gasses .

[JMR1]

Contrary to what Crasher has said I've got my ear to 4 VAG forums and no one is moaning about Mr Muscle is killing their turbo .

And we wouldn't have to do a decoke of the turbo if it wasn't for an egr recycling sooty exhaust gasses .
Most of my mechanical experience has been on petrol engined vehs , so really not up to speed on diesels..but now am on sharp learning curve 😏 and this forum is a mine of helpfull info. So regarding mr.muscle as a cleaning agent, by definition, has to be highly corrosive...all the threads mention protective clothing,and prompt clean up of spillages, so I imagine that if it can remove hardened exhaust deposits....what it would do to "softer" bits and pieces along the exhaust system...when I will tackle this job, I will remove the turbo completely,and at least whatever agent I will use as cleaner ( all suggestions welcome) it will be well cleaned before re-assembly. And, hopefully that will sort out the power loss under load.

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[Gazwould]

I always offer the proper suggestion of strip and clean .

But there are those not mechanically minded , scared or lazy.

Then there are those who quite like the idea of inserting something by inches into a hole and squiting a corrosive substance .

[Crasher]

Ask ANY turbo manufacturer what they see when they strip down a turbo that has been treated with a water based oven cleaner. ANY metallurgist or person with a little experience can tell you that stripping a tool steel shaft with caustic and leaving water in there afterwards is going to cause corrosion. Yes, a turbo re-manufacturer such as Midland Turbo is going to be biased about the correct way of doing something, but I trust their judgement and so far I have had a 99% ish result from them.

I can tell you for sure that a diesel engine produces turbo shagging soot with or without the help of an EGR system.


Contrary to what Crasher has said I've got my ear to 4 VAG forums and no one is moaning about Mr Muscle is killing their turbo .

And we wouldn't have to do a decoke of the turbo if it wasn't for an egr recycling sooty exhaust gasses .

One of my mechanics had to remove his turbo and have it rebuilt after two oven cleaner treatments saw it fill his exhaust with oil. Since shutting down his EGR and rodding out his cat he has had nothing but trouble with his turbo filling with soot, he won't listen either so he can suffer like the rest of you! At least when he fixes my customers cars he does what he is told to do and those people have no further problems.

[Gazwould]

So how long after Mr Muscle treatment does it go ?

[Crasher]

Matt, one of my mechanics, did his three times (not twice as I said) and after the third go, the exhaust side seal let go a few weeks later. It varies considerably and those people who flush the chemical out with a solvent (as the Innotec kit provides) don't seem to have the problem. To be honest though, the process just doesn't work whatever you use. I did one on an early A3 and it made the vane system jam solid where it was only sticking before. Back in 2003 I tried the Innotec kit on my friends Octavia but it made little difference and when I opened it up, all the cleaner had done was to wash away the light soot, it had hardly touched it. The only way to remove the baked on deposits was by buffing them off with a bench grinder wire wheel.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd20/Crasher1964/P1010029.jpg (http://s222.photobucket.com/user/Crasher1964/media/P1010029.jpg.html)

I sprayed some Innotec cleaner directly onto half of the contamination and left it overnight and when I rinsed it off you could not see where it had been done. The thing is with the treatment is that the labour time is nigh on half what it takes to remove the turbo in the first place and having someone like Midland Turbo rebuild it is very affordable.

[JMR1]

"I always offer the proper suggestion of strip and clean .

But there are those not mechanically minded , scared or lazy.

Then there are those who quite like the idea of inserting something by inches into a hole and squiting a corrosive substance ."
There is s lot of very strange people out there Gazwould.........:naughty::banana::banana:.. who are doing even stranger things...:bigeyes2:

[Gazwould]

A turbo failure could be a coincidence much as a remap and failure not long after .

Ok Mr Muscle doesn't work for everyone but you make out that it doesn't work at all where there are countless happy reviews on many forums .

[JMR1]

Crasher,
how about removing the turbo, as shown in your pic, stripping it down and then using mr muscle on it? Giving it a good clean up afterwards? I presume that there are no new cleaners out there, or else you or some one else would have mentioned it?
I take your point about the economics of replacing it with a new/reconditioned one. A local shop near me in their advertisement are quoting " Reconditioned Turbos fully guaranteed, prices starting at €250.. Fitting extra, if required" Does not give a specific price for an Audi A6 1.9 Sports, but I imagine max €350. But if you can depend on it being trouble free for 100'000 Miles, its a cheap fix.

[Crasher]

As I said, that picture was after it had firstly been injected with http://www.innotecworld.com/products/sets-systems.php?productid=6 which is far more aggressive than oven cleaner and then when apart, sprayed with it and left overnight. The burnt deposits are so strongly aheared, only physical abrasive methods such as bead blasting or high speed wire bushing will work. I used to do all my own this way but from Midland they come beautifully rebuilt, look like new and have a warranty so we just find it an all round better process getting them to rebuild the old unit for us.

[sandistt]

I get frustrated by people who **** up their cars emissions systems, not purely because I am an asthma sufferer and NOX emissions are a know trigger BUT also because the interfering meddling busy body ***** in Brussels see the figures from the air monitoring stations doted around the UK and see for themselves the rising figures and deduce from these that their previous efforts (EU1, 2, 3, 4 and 5) have not worked so then plan the introduction of more punitive measures such as EU6, 6.1 and 6.2 which are going to cause all of us trouble, if you thought EU5 and the DPF were traumatic, wait until EU6.2 comes in! You also get screw up's like in the news last night where VW have been caught with their software around their ankles as their cars were having trouble passing EPA laws in California, which are the worst anywhere and the ones that the EU look to for inspiration. The whole thing is getting out of control due mainly to people removing emissions devices. A proposal (now abandoned) to drop the M1 speed limit to 50 around Sheffield raised section were specifically thought up due to the levels of NOX emissions emitted by cars with deleted emission systems. Basically, those people **** it up for everyone else who drives a petrol vehicle or non illegally modified diesel, it is a typical example of the rule of life which states that the minority **** it up for the majority....

Mr Muscle ***** the turbo exhaust side seals up by causing rust due to it's caustic and water content, I have had an innumerable number of them in with this and reports back from Midland Turbo's sating that there was corrosion damage to the spindle consummate with their experiences of people using oven cleaner instead of especially designed chemicals and their post treatment flushes that do not contain water but still don't work long term. When the turbo side seals fail due to this, the clean up costs are huge as getting a couple of litres of oil out of the exhaust system takes hours and litres of expensive TFR.



It is illegal under EU law and as far as I remember Ireland is a member of the EU is it not?Latvia is an EU union country... I blanked the Egr valve and the 2nd year pass the technical inspection, it is legal [emoji848][emoji1787][emoji23]

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[Crasher]

EU law and the relevant inspection (which varies by country) are not always the same thing... just because your car passaes a sub standard technical inspection does not make it legal under EU law and this post is five years old plus I don't really care what happens in Latvia!

[sandistt]

EU law and the relevant inspection (which varies by country) are not always the same thing... just because your car passaes a sub standard technical inspection does not make it legal under EU law and this post is five years old plus I don't really care what happens in Latvia!I don't care what happens with you too, and I don't care have old is the post, just don't cry too much.... That's it[emoji106][emoji1787] And I can't remember that I askt you to care abough Latvia or other country.... I just write my location and that the egr delete don't affected my cars inspection..... If the exhaust gasses readings fits in to limits, then its OK......

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