Allroad 2002 2.5TDI Quattro AUTO TRANSMISSION Question

[bigandy82]

First post... heregoes. :)

Hi, I have a condition with my gearbox which I'vebeen trying to find an explanation for for some time now... I'vesearched more posts than I can think of but nothing pinpoints thesymptoms that my car has.
The car is an AudiAllroad 2002 2.5TDI Quattro.
Engine code: AKE
Gearbox code: EYJ (Ibelieve)


Symptoms:
when I drive thevehicle 1st gear changes to 2nd fine. When Ichange from 2nd to 3rd it revs high before it engages, theexact same for 3rd to 4th then it's finefrom 4th to 5th. This doesn't happen all thetime but it does happen a lot. To me it feels like an electricalfault, not mechanical.


I've scanned it withVCDS and have found the following fault code:


Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 01V-927-156.lbl
Part No: 4Z7 927 156 H
Component: AG5 01V 2.5lTDI RdW 2121
Coding: 00001
Shop #: WSC 00000
VCID: 4B95AD5C79C81779CBD-515E

1 Fault Found:
18265 - Load Signal
P1857 - 35-10 - Error Message from ECU – Intermittent


Has anyone ever experienced this or can at least point me in the right direction of fault finding to the answer?

Andy.

[Scott K]

http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/help-18265-load-signal-p1857-35-10-error-message-from-ecu-intermittant.218846/
Have a look here. Seems to be related to alternator connection to gearbox, MAF or injector harness??
The part number 4Z7 927 156 H is the gearbox transmission module.
This is the Ross Tech advice.
http://http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/18265/P1857/006231 (http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/18265/P1857/006231)
Good luck.

[Tel2]

I have a somewhat similar problem which I have been unable to match anywhere. I even took it to an auto trans specialist this week who is also baffled!

The problem almost only occurs when the vehicle is cold. After a few miles it goes away. The are times when it refuses to change from 1st to 2nd automatically. You can get to 30mph and it still won't change. As soon as you flip it to manual mode you can change it with no problems. It also has the same delays between the gears mentioned by bigandy82. This usually only applies to the lower gears and it will rev between gears. Again this tends to disappear as the vehicle warms up.

There are no warning lights. All the gear lights on the dashboard are displayed correctly. Once the code 01119 came up (transmission shift-range gear position signal). After deleting the code it has never come back.

The auto trans specialist originally thought it was going to be the "switch" from my description but after test driving it 3 times from cold he is convinced it is not as all the lights are correct and there are no fault codes. His guess is that it is the gearbox ecu but he does not deal with them! That is an expensive item to buy and non trivial to get at under the driver's seat so I am looking for anyone who has come across a similar problem and can confirm the correct resolution.

The gearbox is a ZF5HP19 on an Allroad 2.5TDi 2005 C5

Thanks for all and any help.

[Audi A6 Allroad]

Hi Andy, my A6 ALLROAD was also experiencing the same problem with the delayed gear changes after a cold start. I observed it all started when at the local garage the mechanic decided to put a thicker Engine oil 5W40 because of the high mileage (mine was at 188000 then. If you can check for any oil leaks especially engine oil and transmission oil leaks just under the car only then you can start to get hold of the problem. I controlled the Oil leak both the engine oil and the transmission oil by using Wynnes Stop Leak oil additive from Halfords. It's about £6 a can of additive which you will be using just in case there is an oil leak. For the transmission Leak you will have to mix the Transmission Leak Stop oil additive while topping up the transmission oil, it's £6 a can. Lastly use Castrol Edge 5w30 fully synthetic engine oil on each oil change. I followed this after controlling the oil leaks and my car is driving better than before. I hope it helps. Remember, the thicker engine oil takes longer to warm up especially in the winter. Cheers

[Scott K]

Those engine oils will both be the same in cold conditions as they are both 5W. The second number is the viscosity at 100C I think.

[Tel2]

Thanks for the suggestion. There are no oil leaks from either the engine oil or the transmission oil. Your post did raise the question in mind though on whether I should change the oil for a thinner one and see if it makes any difference but the subsequent post from Scott K seems to indicate that the oil is the same in both cold and warm conditions.

Since my last post I have tried to isolate which ECU may be at fault. One of the tests I performed was to disconnect the battery for 6-8 hours and then reconnect it, effectively doing a cold re-boot of the module. This stopped the problem for around 2-3 days so it would seem to indicate a fault in one of the ECUs. Which ECU is at fault is the problem as I understand they are all constantly talking to each other and affect each other's control. Any ideas would be helpful, thanks.

[Scott K]

Try cleaning the MAF or removing it and see how it runs. It might be giving bad readings to the ECU.

[Tel2]

Can I do that by just disconnecting the sensor and seeing if it changes anything? There are no error codes showing which might indicate a problem with the MAF.

[Scott K]

Can try that. The original post listed the faults and I think the load signal can sometimes be from the MAF as it supplies info to the ECU. The MAF comes out quite easily and the wires are often coated in carbon so a clean can help.

[Audi A6 Allroad]

Hi, There should be no harm in putting a good quality fully synthetic oil (closer to 5w30) to ease off the idle speed of the engine immediately after a cold start in the morning. In A6 ALLROAD, the system set gear change intervals are pre set at around 0-5mph for 1st gear; 6- 15 for 2nd gear but if you're going uphill it will hold until you reach 20mph. The 3rd gear should be switched automatically at 21mph; 4th gear at 31mph and the 5th gear at 41mph unless you choose to switch the gear in manual mode. In both modes the gear change intervals will remain nearly the same. The very Common Mistake is when the driver start over riding the gear change from the button at the steering wheel while the car is being driven in AUTOMATIC. This can lead to the fault code suggesting a problem with the "gear range/interval".

[Tel2]

I ran all day yesterday with the MAF disconnected. To start it seemed to stop the gear changing problem but later it came back so I am not really sure whether it had any effect. I can see that it is worth trying to clean the MAF so I'll get some cleaner and do it. With the problem being intermittent and not necessarily easy to reproduce the improvement yesterday morning may just have been that the fault wasn't present on that journey. I will continue to run today with the MAF disconnected as it doesn't seem to change the way the engine performs but I fear that the gearbox issue is not related to the MAF.

[Tel2]

Hi, There should be no harm in putting a good quality fully synthetic oil (closer to 5w30) to ease off the idle speed of the engine immediately after a cold start in the morning. In A6 ALLROAD, the system set gear change intervals are pre set at around 0-5mph for 1st gear; 6- 15 for 2nd gear but if you're going uphill it will hold until you reach 20mph. The 3rd gear should be switched automatically at 21mph; 4th gear at 31mph and the 5th gear at 41mph unless you choose to switch the gear in manual mode. In both modes the gear change intervals will remain nearly the same. The very Common Mistake is when the driver start over riding the gear change from the button at the steering wheel while the car is being driven in AUTOMATIC. This can lead to the fault code suggesting a problem with the "gear range/interval".



Thanks for the comments. When the gearbox is being particularly difficult you can get to 30mph in 1st gear and it still won't change, you have to do it manually. There are no buttons on the steering wheel so the gearbox has never been overridden. The fault code has only come up once and since clearing it 2-3 months ago it has never come back.

The most regular symptom is that the engine will rev to 4-5K between gear changes as the change is very slow while the gearbox thinks what to do next.

[Tel2]

I have opened this question again because after the problem went away almost entirely for the summer, it is now back with a vengeance. My wife told me that when she was driving yesterday, all the auto transmission lights on the dashboard were on, she couldn't even change gear manually and it seemed to be stuck in a single gear but she couldn't tell which. On the way back it was fine again! I drive it this morning and had little problem. A couple of times the auto box changed down for a hill with a bit of a thump and then revved somewhat when changing back up but this was only in the first couple of miles.

I checked for any codes when I got back and did find one this time, a new one: 17119. This code is not listed my Vagscanner manual but searching the web it seems to be the following:

17119/P0735/001845 - Gear 5: Incorrect Ratio Possible Symptoms

Clutch Slipping
Reduced Power Output

Possible Causes

Gear related Clutch slipping/faulty
Gear related Solenoid Valve dirty/faulty
Overloaded Clutch due to continuous high Torque or Tuning
Wiring and/or Connections faulty
Sensor Gear Position Indicator faulty
Mechanical Failure


This would make sense and is probably a connections fault but how do I find where that would be?

There is no doubt whatever this problem is it is totally temperature dependent. During the warm weather it does not appear and when colder it only appear when the engine is cold, drive a few miles and the problem usually goes away. As previously stated I have had auto specialists look at it as well as the local mechanics and all are baffled. Does anyone have any ideas?

[abby1]

check for a wet ecu below drivers seat underneth carpet may feel dry on top but lift it as ecu sits in low part off floor

[rowdy-999]

Not sure why you're being advised to change engine oil when you have a gearbox problem?

You're gearbox oil is thickest and therefore at highest pressure when cold. It could be a faulty oil seal or valvebody losing fluid pressure.

[les cocker]

Hi
I am running a 2005 Allroad 2.5 tdi (http://www.amazon.co.uk/-/dp/B004JNS8LM) with quatro box and 149k on the clock I have been having issues with gear selection and change up times. Some times on start up when i select R I get a loud clunk and the car steps back with a jerk. I then select D the same noise and jerk happens. At the same time the PRNDS is blanked out and tip 12345 is locked out :confused:. If i drive the car it stays in 1st gear or at least thats what it feels like. if i stop and start the engine ( some times 3 or 4 times ) the fault clears and the car drives better but still with the following issues I have had the car for 6 months and the problem is getting worse.
When driving under what seems to be normal gear selection the engine revs quite often go to 3500 before it will change up, this happens even at very light throttle application and on flat level ground. I have today drained the transmission and changed the filter and sump pan gasket ( awaiting new oil from Audi Teesside ) but I only got about 5 ltr of oil out (audi said 9 required) has any one got any tips on how to get more out as the oil is not as black as engine oil but not far off and i would like to get rid of any grubby stiff before i fill again, and also
where can i check the oil temp that was refered to in a post about a 3.2 tt quatro (http://www.amazon.co.uk/-/dp/B006X19J8E) box I have a temp probe for a fluke multimeter that i intend to use I installed vcds on my laptop but am waiting for a cable :Blush: I am trying not to let this get out of hand as i had a A6 se 2000my that stared acting strange and then lost all drive and dumped oil all along the motorway 2700£ for a new box fitted :aargh4:
Just done the oils and filter, its a bit smoother to drive but still got the shift lights locking out which as you say clears if you switch off and on some times twice
I saw some thing on youtube relating to a selector switch on the side of the box whisc can cause trouble but have lost the link If i find it again i will post it



This week 2 months after i started on this issue I hav taken the leap and had the car into Audi Teesside (Part of the Benfield motor group) They checked on a diagnostic and came back with Immplausable selector switch position This has now been changed at the cost of £727.79 I collected the car at 1700 today and drove the 40 miles home over the North York moors up hill and down dale. The box performed faultlessly and was changing up at around 1900/2200 rpm with 60 mph at 1900 and 70 mph at 2300 I was fortunate when i got to the dealer as a mate form my rallying days is working there and he did the job. I got a blow by blow of the work done and i am confident this has cured the beast :D;)

[Tel2]

check for a wet ecu below drivers seat underneth carpet may feel dry on top but lift it as ecu sits in low part off floor

Thanks for the suggestion about a wet ecu. I have been all round the area beneath the driver's seat and can't find how to get under the carpet. It appears to be a single piece of carpet cover the whole floor area and up the side of the transmission, rear seat and outer sills. It feels perfectly dry on the top, as you mentioned, but I can't feel underneath it. Is there a knack to getting below the carpet?

[abby1]

kick panel see a wee square below that is a screw undo remove panel then with a flat bladed screw driver lift panel along the top off carpet to door jamb push seat all the way back then lift carpet and feel for damp ecu is in black plastic box should be able to slide to you

[les cocker]

Is this where the gearbox ecu lives ??
I have done the left side which had water in the tupper ware box but no in the ecu which had been opened before so easy to access
Box had seemed to have settled but today it locked in 1st again. Nocked into.N switched off restarted and hey presto good to go did it on the run as i have 500 yds clear road to go at ��

[Tel2]

I am sorry, I am getting confused with the multiple threads here. Is the the ecu under the driver's seat on a right hand drive car or is it under the passenger seat on the left side of the car?

[ametlib]

Hi.
Didn't take the time to read the whole thread but if you have not changed the transmission oil yet , I suggest you start there. The fault you describe sounds like the converter lock up is not beeing activated and I,ve seen this and similar faults beeing cured by
changing oil and filter

[abby1]

transmission control module is under carpet drivers side

[Tel2]

Thanks, but is that on the drivers side for a left hand drive car or a right hand drive car?

[ametlib]

It's on the cars right side. Generally speaking the two most common faults on 5HP19 is Atf and filter needs to be changed and engine MAF. . . after that - torque converter faulty . .

[Tel2]

It's on the cars right side. Generally speaking the two most common faults on 5HP19 is Atf and filter needs to be changed and engine MAF. . . after that - torque converter faulty . .


Thanks for that. I'll work on the fluid and filter. I have already eliminated the MAF.

[mike ryan]

I did not like my adaptive gear change which revved the engine to high for my liking so I turned it off with ross tech. This did stop it revving so high.

Mine seemed to slip into third when I first got it bur I put up with it. Eventually it spay it's oil out at the same time as blowing the gearbox oil pump. I got that swapped out and changed the oil and filter with genuine stuff and it has helped. The oil had been changed according to the service history so I don't think they used the correct oil.

The change into 5th under load became really clunky after that . I put up with and it has got better. I did find a lot of info on the gearbox on some Russian audi sites as they rebuild them. They pointed towards solenoid problems. Maybe worth a Google to see if they throw any light on the problem.

For those who don't know. 9litres of oil is the total capacity of the gearbox. Only 5 comes out as the rest remains in the box. Without stripping the box there is no way of getting it out.
When topping up the car needs to be running and the oil temp at 40 degrees using ross tech. There is a large plug under the gearbox sump that you pump oil into until it starts coming out of the plug hole.

The carpet not being wet does not rule out water in the yfootwell as the carpet is about 2 inches taller than it seems. The seats are easy to remove so pull it out and be sure no water is in the footwell.

Hope this helps in some way


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[les cocker]

Hi Mike Ryan
I have done most of the oil.and filter this made a difference but still had this 1st gear lockout . Last event was a battery change and this had made a big diff. When removed from car after running for 30 min a starting ok i took it off and had it checked ....Shot 12 1 v so that equates to 20% charge. It should have been 12.7 to13 v for 100% charge. Since battery changed i have not had a gearlock out at all. Charge rate is 14.2 v so hoping low v on startup has been messing with ecu��������

[amiram]

I did not like my adaptive gear change which revved the engine to high for my liking so I turned it off with ross tech. This did stop it revving so high.

Mine seemed to slip into third when I first got it bur I put up with it. Eventually it spay it's oil out at the same time as blowing the gearbox oil pump. I got that swapped out and changed the oil and filter with genuine stuff and it has helped. The oil had been changed according to the service history so I don't think they used the correct oil.

The change into 5th under load became really clunky after that . I put up with and it has got better. I did find a lot of info on the gearbox on some Russian audi sites as they rebuild them. They pointed towards solenoid problems. Maybe worth a Google to see if they throw any light on the problem.

For those who don't know. 9litres of oil is the total capacity of the gearbox. Only 5 comes out as the rest remains in the box. Without stripping the box there is no way of getting it out.
When topping up the car needs to be running and the oil temp at 40 degrees using ross tech. There is a large plug under the gearbox sump that you pump oil into until it starts coming out of the plug hole.

The carpet not being wet does not rule out water in the yfootwell as the carpet is about 2 inches taller than it seems. The seats are easy to remove so pull it out and be sure no water is in the footwell.

Hope this helps in some way


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mike Ryan You're right ,This program called DSP (dinamic shift program) In the TCU. Under certain conditions, the DSP can cause draw gears to hi rev. This program records the driving characteristics in memory (log) And adjusts the behavior of the transmission accordance the log. If you disconnect the car battery For a while This LOG Is deleted Then the transmission behavior chang.

[Wigglesworth]

I have a somewhat similar problem which I have been unable to match anywhere. I even took it to an auto trans specialist this week who is also baffled!

The problem almost only occurs when the vehicle is cold. After a few miles it goes away. The are times when it refuses to change from 1st to 2nd automatically. You can get to 30mph and it still won't change. As soon as you flip it to manual mode you can change it with no problems. It also has the same delays between the gears mentioned by bigandy82. This usually only applies to the lower gears and it will rev between gears. Again this tends to disappear as the vehicle warms up.

There are no warning lights. All the gear lights on the dashboard are displayed correctly. Once the code 01119 came up (transmission shift-range gear position signal). After deleting the code it has never come back.

The auto trans specialist originally thought it was going to be the "switch" from my description but after test driving it 3 times from cold he is convinced it is not as all the lights are correct and there are no fault codes. His guess is that it is the gearbox ecu but he does not deal with them! That is an expensive item to buy and non trivial to get at under the driver's seat so I am looking for anyone who has come across a similar problem and can confirm the correct resolution.

The gearbox is a ZF5HP19 on an Allroad 2.5TDi 2005 C5

Thanks for all and any help.

Hi Tel2,

Did you get to the bottom of this & was it rectified?
I have almost exactly the same issue & symptoms, part from I can get it to go away in Sport mode only & it only started when we had the snow the other week

[Tel2]

Unfortunately not, no-one could identify the problem. Everyone kept suggesting different possible fixes all of which were expensive with no guarantee they would resolve the problem. The vehicle continued like this for several months and then I completely lost gears 4 & 5. The prognosis this time was a gearbox rebuild which was going to work out at £3,000 total so I scrapped the car.