Another Tiptronic Fault

[cieranc]

Hi All, new here and just bought a 52 plate Allroad, 2.5 Quattro 180.
Rather than hijack Wills current thread, thought I'd start a new one. Yet another Tiptronic gearbox query.

Starts up fine, idles right. Shift from Park into Drive or Reverse and get a solid red bar on the display. It makes no noise so I suspect it isn't even trying to go into gear.
Switch ignition off, move to Neutral, start up, shifts, indicates and selects gears fine.

It's been checked out by the last owners local garage, as much as they can fathom, moving from P causes a spike at the TCM, putting it into limp mode. They advised the last owner that the TCM needs replacing, so he just got used to starting, switching off then starting again from neutral.

Driving it, it does seem to hesitate to change up when it's cold. Either hot or cold, in the towns it seems to kick-down with even the lightest tap of the throttle. I don't know if it's too twitchy or just a quirk of the car. I suspect an oil change (over 150k and no record of an oil change) may help, this is on the 'to do' list.

Has anyone come across the electrical shifting fault before? Is it likely to mean a new TCM, or could it be switches or wiring?

Thanks, Cieran

[ceilidhalfie]

First thing to do is get scan done for fault codes. My 52 Allroad now done 175k with still the "lifetime" Transmission Fluid in it! Consensus is unless mechanical issue do not change the TF.

[cieranc]

OK thanks, I'll get my pal to drop his Texa machine on it when I get home (I work abroad).
I'm guessing these can be read through the OBD 2 socket?

[DGSdale]

First thing to do is get scan done for fault codes. My 52 Allroad now done 175k with still the "lifetime" Transmission Fluid in it! Consensus is unless mechanical issue do not change the TF.

Have to disagree about not changing the oil. Can only think its a myth started by the fact that Audi say it's 'filled for life' which is particularly odd given that ZF, the manufacturers of the 'box state the oil should be changed every 50,000 - 75,000miles. http://www.zf.com/brands/content/en/zf_parts/technology_in_practice_zp/oil_change_procedure_zp/how-to-change-oil.html
BMW use the same gearbox and have a scheduled oil change. I rang Audi UK a few years ago, before having the oil changed on my previous A6 and asked how long was a 'lifetime.' The answer was ' errr....I don't know! I've just had the oil changed in the 'box of my latest A6. There was nothing horrendous about the oil that came out (115,000miles) and no metallic 'whiskers' on the magnets but it was certainly very black and probably well out of viscosity. Also give some consideration to the state of the filter. If you change the oil and filter in the engine why would you not do the same for the gearbox? Especially given that it arguably has more 'duties' to carry out than the oil in an engine.

[cieranc]

OK, just got home and set about this car with a VCDS Lite.
Codes are:
18161 - Tiptronic switch (f189) Implausible signal P1753-35-00 -
18265 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs P-1857 - 35 - 10 Intermittant

And in the Engine module, in case it's related:
00575 Intake Manifold Pressure
08-10 Control Limit Surpassed - Intermittent
00550 - Shareware 08-10 intermittent


I have a copy of ElsaWin, but I can't see where the DTC's are defined, so am struggling a bit with the codes themselves.

A little more history, last owner had the switch/actuator on the side of the gearbox changed, this didn't cure the fault.
I lifted the drivers carpet expecting (and maybe even hoping) to find it flooded, but it was bone dry and the TCM showed no sign of having been wet - nice clean pins.
I lifted the cover for the shift mechanism, looks like it's been butchered about a bit, clips broken etc. I haven't removed/stripped this yet.

Any pointers or interpretations of the fault codes would be much appreciated.

[ceilidhalfie]

Re 00575 Intake Manifold Pressure Exceeded - Intermittent, I also had this fault for about 3 years on my 2002 Allroad AKE 2.5 Auto. Never noticed any performance issue but
eventually tracked it down to a faulty N75 valve (the one nearest the fuel filter). VCDS has never shown fault since.
Re changing gearbox oil, you need to have access to post lift or pit to do it correctly - car has to be level and top up filler hole is awkward. As my gearbox is running just as sweet as day one after 175k, I intend leaving well alone.

[cieranc]

Ahh cheers for that,
I meant to add, I've found a dealer receipt for gearbox oil change @98k miles :)

[mikeybutch]

Just to add that my A4 has had the ATF changed by Audi cos a helper undid the wrong plug when we were doing a service.Both of us agree it drives better but it wasn't bad before.Since found that its not unusual for owners to do a change on the basis that the original fluid cant last for ever.Reminds me a little of an 80s Accord I had where there was no mention in the thick workshop manual of a cambelt change so it was left until it snapped at 135k but luckily no internal damage

[cieranc]

Hi All,
I've had a bit of time to check this out a bit more, and can clarify the fault a little better:
Start engine and shift from Park to Reverse, reverse engages and it does reverse, no fault on the display.
Shift again to Drive (or from Park to Drive), it engages gear and drives normally, but has the solid bar on the dash. When this happens, the Tip buttons don't work on the steering wheel.

Switch off, shift to Neutral, start up from Neutral and it engages drive and reverse and drives normally with no red bar on the dash.

Brake interlock works as it should, shifter won't move without brake pressed and the light on the shift console works.
I've had the circuit board apart under the shifter stick, magnets are attached where they should be and no signs of circuit board damage.

I've checked the loom connections down to the solenoid - all seem clean and a good tight fit.


Is there anything else I should be checking? I really don't want to shell out for a TCM !
Or would anyone know where I can find instructions on checking the F189 switch with VCDS Lite?

[ceilidhalfie]

Have you seen this on the web:

"Learned something new today....
For those of you with tiptronic trans, if your PRNDL display blocks out and you have the inplausible signal DTC, here is something to check (for what it is worth, I seem to only run into this with the NB)...
The tiptronic switch asm uses HAL sensors and magnets. There are two magnets, a very tiny brick shapped one, a cyclinder shaped one. The cyclinder shaped one is in a little bracket that slides/snaps to a plastic carrier strip. What will happen is the bracket that holds the cyclinder magnet will pop loose and move back about 1mm, just enough to screw with you.
I had a brand new car with that DTC, my wiring tested out perfect. I order a new Tip switch and install... same issue. Hmmm... maybe I got a dud out of the box, order another switch... again, same problem. Turns out ALL THREE OF THEM had the same problem. I took the tiptronic switch asm all apart (simple, just snapped together) and put a dot of superglue on the cyclinder magent bracket and snapped it into place. Did this to all three of the tip switches, now they all work perfect.
So, before you run off and replace said switch, check that cyclinder shaped magnet, see if you can push it in (the bracket is kind of "wedge" shape), if you push in on it (towards the center of the asm), you should feel it click into place and the edge will be even/flush with the part it is fitted to.
On this same topic, Phaeton and Touareg owners have discovered that the little sliding plastic plate that holds the magnets can be very, very easily broken if the technician is not careful when inserting the chrome plastic base of the shift lever handle.
There are some photos of the part, and discussion about how it gets broken, at this post: Retrofitting Keyless Start to a North American Phaeton (http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1683482&page=2) - look about halfway down the second page of the thread."

[cieranc]

Hi, thanks for this, I've seen it. I have stripped the shift circuit mechanism, both magnets are in the right places and are secure.
When I move the stick through its positions, the correct light lights up for each position, which suggests the magnets are in the right place at the right time.
The car actually drives alright, it just goes into fault if started up from Park.
Ideally I need to find a "how to" for measuring the selector position with VCDS lite.
This will at least rule the F189 out.
Cheers, Cieran.

[cieranc]

Hi All,
Today I've spent a bit of time with the VCDS Lite, checking the Selector Position and Tiptronic controls.
When I start up in Park and move through the positions, I get the following:
P 1000
Z1 1100
R 0100
Z1 1100
N 1110
Z2 1010
D 1011
Z3 1111
S 0111

This to me proves the F125 Selector Switch is working correctly.


Then I moved onto the F189 switch, the one the fault codes flags up as spurious signal:

Move stick from D to the right = 'M SWITCH'
(In the manual position to the right) Stick Forward = 'UP BUTTON'
Stick Backward= 'DN BUTTON'

And on the steering wheel buttons:

+ = UP BUTTON
- = DN BUTTON

As far as I can see, everything is working correctly as it should be. Do the above readings look right?

[cieranc]

Anyone shed any light on this? I've been away with work, home now and trying to get to the bottom of this fault.

[abby1]

please tell me how you remove gear stick i have pulled silver button out but will not release any clues allroad 2002

[DGSdale]

please tell me how you remove gear stick i have pulled silver button out but will not release any clues allroad 2002

Pull down the plastic collar (slightly tapered and usually silver) immediately below the gear knob. This must be done first. Then, whilst pulling the silver button out, pull up hard on the gear knob. Careful you don't smack yourself in the face when it comes off! Replacement is the reverse - to get hold of the silver button (it will spring back into the gear knob) use blu-tack.

[cieranc]

I've got hold of a known good TCU, from a breaker I trust.
It's made a difference to how the car drives, gear changes are smoother and faster. Which makes me think that either there was a problem with my TCU, or this new one has been chipped/remapped at some point.

But still the same fault and code for the F189 switch.

Any ideas people, I'm seriously out of ideas now :(

[cieranc]

.

[cieranc]

Well, I've dropped the sump on the gearbox, checked the wiring as best I can. Oil that came out was black but not smelling burnt, so OK as far as I can tell.
Replaced filter and oil as per the manual.
Cased the wiring loom from the gearbox multiplug as far as I can, no fault found.

Fault still exists.

Anyone come across this fault, or can anyone suggest anything else to check?

I've seen a similar thread on another forum, describing the same symptoms, but no answer to the problem.

[Mark E]

Ever get an answer to this? I have the identical problem. It only ever does it the first time I start the car in the morning. I read somewhere that if parked on an incline, as mine is, the plastic plate slips due to gravity, causing the fault. I've never experimented by parking somewhere else. How accessible is the TCU? It's under the driver's footwell correct? If changing over, is it just a case of unplugging the old one and plugging in the new one or does it need calibrated with VAG? Any advice welcome. My car too drives pretty good but is sometimes slow to shift up

[cieranc]

Hi, sorry for the late reply, I'm at work (abroad).
No, I never sorted the problem. I sold the car with the fault still there.

If you remove the trim on the sill, move the seat right back and as high as it'll go, lift the carpet up, you can just get the TCU out without any further dismantling.
It sits in a weather-proof case.
It's all plug and play without the need to code it, just make sure the ignition is off when you do it.
I have a spare TCU at home, can't remember the number off the top of my head, 4Z7 ... .. .. 156H I believe ???

[cieranc]

But I've found a few threads on different forums all with exactly the same symptoms, yet no answers!

[Mark E]

Thanks for that -- I'll have a look for the TCU tomorrow. Do you have a use for your spare? (when you get back)

[JMR1]

On the subject of automatic transmissions... which is the best to go for? Tiptronic or Multitronic?
Cheers, Jim:beerchug:

[Mark E]

On the subject of automatic transmissions... which is the best to go for? Tiptronic or Multitronic?
Cheers, Jim:beerchug:

Based on everything I've read, Tiptronic is preferable.

[abby1]

hi is it 4z7927156h and would you consider selling it pm me please

[JMR1]

Thanks Mark E, I'll bear that in mind. Do you know where I can find the id code on a manual A6-C5 6speed box? :beerchug:

[les cocker]

I have just collected my 55 reg allroad from the Audi Dealership. I had almost identical issues including immplausable switch position I asked them to do a full scan on the car and they found the same code as you mentioned. I was fortunate in having an old Rallying mate who has been with this dealer for over 25 years. They said the only place for this to originate is the selector switch on the outside of the box passenger side. The switch fits over the control shaft that the gear selector cable connects to I was fortunate again as the switch was the cheaper £137 unit and not the £250 one.
All in fitted and new bits like bolts and screws gaskets etc the job came to £727.79
I drove the car home over the North York moors with no problems for the 40 miles trip The box was changing up at around 1900/2200 rpm 5th gear was giving 60mph at around 1950 and 70 was 2300. The car averaged 32mpg which i would previously only get on a cruising motorway trip.
I had previously done a gear box oil change ( 6 of the 9 ltrs) and box filter as well. fingers crossed

[mikeybutch]

Mine had the implausible signal about a year ago but I guessed it would be costly so waited to see if it got worse cos it was still useableand its not my everyday car.However I did start regular checks by moving the gear change without starting the car about 6months ago and it not happened since so maybe settled down.My son has now usurped my space on the drive with his TT so its on the road outside.The road is level but the drive is an up incline so maybe the move helps.The car seems to like gremlins cos things happen like the heater flaps sometimes stick then free themselves and the washer bottle occasionally empties itself then is OK for weeks.Vag seem to have and endless supply of these signals.Wifes mk5 golf had airbag light fault which is the bad connector that seems almost standard but has been cleared.Sons girlfriends EOS has the same which he cant clear so he is going to follow up a recall on