56 Plate Touran door lock issue please advise

[vrooze]

Hi All,

I've recently got around to trying to fix my driver door lock.

Basically since I've had the car the key will not turn in the lock. It works fine in the ignition but wont turn in the door.
I've tried everything so got to the point I simply removed it.

I've googled replacement locks etc but got quite a surprise when I removed it. It looks nothing like any of the others I have seen for both Tourans and Golf/Boras.

The part number on the stem is 1T0 837 167B/168B
Googling this only returns a few sites that are non-English and most of the replacements I can see are a different length.

My guess is the lock/door has been replaced (or possible even the ignition) as the central locking works fine but I cant get into the car at all using the key.

Is there a replacement for this part with a new part number? The ones I have found either have a short top/cap area or shorter stems.

Please advise!

attaching pics.

http://file.theviruz.com/debugImage/150412/.thumbs/IMAG0001.png (http://file.theviruz.com/debugImage/150412/IMAG0001.jpg)
http://file.theviruz.com/debugImage/150412/.thumbs/IMAG0003.png (http://file.theviruz.com/debugImage/150412/IMAG0003.jpg)
http://file.theviruz.com/debugImage/150412/.thumbs/IMAG0002.png (http://file.theviruz.com/debugImage/150412/IMAG0002.jpg)
http://file.theviruz.com/debugImage/150412/.thumbs/IMAG0004.png (http://file.theviruz.com/debugImage/150412/IMAG0004.jpg)

[Flash2]

Does your key work in the glovebox lock or the tailgate lock? Maybe that will give you a clue as to whether the lock has been replaced or if it was the ignition barrel that was changed.

I can't say for sure about the Touran, but usually if you put the wrong key in the door lock of a VW, the key just rotates in the lock without doing anything. So you'd think if the ignition barrel had been replaced and the key wasn't the one for the door lock, it would just rotate. But yours wont turn at all. Could the barrel maybe just be seized from lack of use since the remote is normally used to lock/unlock the doors?

Jim.

[vrooze]

Hi Jim and thanks for the answer.

The drivers door is the only one with a lock. The tailgate is opened via the fob or central locking.

The glovebox has no lock but it does work in the airback switch in the glovebox, not that it requires anything other than a key shaped thing to operate anyway though!

The central locking has always worked but I only got 1 key with the car and I'm worried what will happen if for some reason the battery dies and I can't get in the car.

I've had the lock in my hand and if you turn the key you can see the 'castle' part at the back jiggling but it doesn't seem to turn more than a couple of degrees in either direction. its had a WD40 bath by holding the gate open with a small screwdriver and holding it upside down to see if anything came out. and its had the externals blasted. it doesn't seem to budge.

The C-Clip is held on by a small pin behind the big spring (top pic) and I could force the clip out as the spring will give. I didnt do that as there would be no way to reasseble the lock if I couldnt get the barrel turning (if I could it would be no issue)

[Flash2]

Yeah, fitting only one door with a lock wasn't a great idea. It does sound like the lock is jammed rather than being the wrong lock for the key. I've never seen that type of lock myself. The Touran is one of the more reliable VWs as far as door locks and actuators go so I've never stripped the drivers door on one.

The lock assembly seems to be this one : Original VW Audi Schliesszylinder mit Gehäuse NEU 107837167GK | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Original-VW-Audi-Schliesszylinder-mit-Gehause-NEU-107837167GK-/231152265634)
The paddle is different but they are interchangeable. At least it gives you the VW part number that might help.

I'm pretty sure if you stripped the lock and cleaned it out it would work again. I've done that with some of the more common Golf/Polo locks. You can even buy sets of tumblers and rebuild the lock fit the key if necessary.

Jim.

[vrooze]

Thanks again Jim!

Any idea of what tumblers I need? all I can find are ones that are for generic keys not the VW/side cut keys.

There's various posts elsewhere of dealers being nice and sometimes giving you a few free. I doubt my dealer is going to be that nice :)

[vrooze]

Just to add.

Just popped down to VW and made some parts enquires, Seems the part number for my car is 107 837 168 VC guess that means the one I have isn't actually for my car.

They also played dumb about lock tumblers and said they only sell complete modules.

Any idea where I can get the tumblers from? I guess I'll have to rip the lock apart to see what they look like first, which may be hard if the key doesnt release them from the housing. I foresee some breaking of something trying to get the lock cylinder out of the housing :(

[Flash2]

The 1T part number on the paddle of your lock is the part number of the paddle part. The 107 number the dealer gave you is the part number of the complete lock assembly.

Tumbler kit : Aliexpress.com : Buy Top Quality Car Lock Reed HU66 VW Inside Milling Lock(ing) Plate, Volkswagen Key Kit,Auto key Repair Accessories Total 200PCS from Reliable lock connector suppliers on Thumb Keys | Alibaba Group (http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Top-Quality-Car-Lock-Reed-HU66-VW-Inside-Milling-Lock-ing-Plate-Volkswagen-Key-Kit-Auto/732885_2009969889.html)

Jim.

[vrooze]

Jim, you are an utter star!

I spent about 2 hours looking for the bits and couldn't find anything!

THANKS! :D

[ProDave]

Yeah, fitting only one door with a lock wasn't a great idea. It does sound like the lock is jammed rather than being the wrong lock for the key. I've never seen that type of lock myself. The Touran is one of the more reliable VWs as far as door locks and actuators go so I've never stripped the drivers door on one.


I have to disagree with that statement. If the Touran has the most relaible locks of a VW then I would hate to have anything less relaible.


Whoever designed a car that when one of the electric actuators failed then that door can end up locked shut and there's no way to open it short of breaking the door card to gain access.

What's wrong with a good old fashioned unlock lever on the inside?

[Flash2]

OK, since the Touran uses the same locks as Golfs & Jettas, I suppose it can't really be any more reliable. But I've never personally had to bust the lock open on a Touran yet I've had to do it on lots of Golfs & Jettas. Maybe the Touran doesn't sell as well as the other models and that's why they don't appear to fail as often.


What's wrong with a good old fashioned unlock lever on the inside?
What's wrong with it is if the door didn't have the dead lock feature, thieves could just smash the window and simply unlock all your doors via the inside handle.

Jim.

[ProDave]

OK, since the Touran uses the same locks as Golfs & Jettas, I suppose it can't really be any more reliable. But I've never personally had to bust the lock open on a Touran yet I've had to do it on lots of Golfs & Jettas. Maybe the Touran doesn't sell as well as the other models and that's why they don't appear to fail as often.

[/COLOR]
What's wrong with it is if the door didn't have the dead lock feature, thieves could just smash the window and simply unlock all your doors via the inside handle.

Jim.

We must agree to differ.

I dislike having an expensive / difficult repair because someone decided to make my car hard to nick. I would rather take my chances with car crime instead of having a car that becomes exceedingly difficult to repair.

I guess it depends where you live and where you park your car. We are in a low crime area and it's in a garage overnight and not locked when there. It only gets locked when we go out. Perhaps that was our problem, the locks siezed up due to lack of use?

[Flash2]

I dislike having an expensive / difficult repair because someone decided to make my car hard to nick.
No, I wouldn't like it either. That's why I choose not to drive a VW.

[vrooze]

To resurrect my old thread before spending over a hundred quid at the ********.

I'm revisting trying to fix this. Since my last posts I bougth a HU66 lockpick and I can pick the lock in both directions so the lock mechanically works.
I've tried stripping it down but cant seem to release the barrel.

I've had everything off down to just the barrel housing, so padde and eveything that can be removed removed.
I've tried pickng the lock before removing the retaining pin I just cant seem to get the barrel/wafer section out.

Does anyone know how to strip one of these down to rebuild it.

There looks like theres a flat silver pin (see pic 1) that might be holding it in. there doesn't seem to be an obvious way to get it out though!

Mark

[vag824]

if you want i can decode the lock and have a key cut to fit it?

[vrooze]

if you want i can decode the lock and have a key cut to fit it?

That could work. Much would that cost me?

I think the dealers looking at a hundred quid or so to get a new coded lock.

I'm in Redditch myself so Walsall isn't 'that' far away to drive up.

[vag824]

i can decode your lock and get the 4 digit cutting code for £25 per lock, if you only have one key for the ignition and your willing to drive up i suggest you get me to do that one too, then i can get you a key cut from code £11 each (postal service)
if you do want more than one lock doing at the same time ill combine and do them cheaper.
send me your mobile number on PM

[vrooze]

Yeah.

I'll talk to the mrs about the cost tonight.

Basically when I bought the car it only came with 1 key (which should have raised alarm bells) and I drove it for about a year then for some random reason decided to open the door with the key and noticed it didnt open. the rest of this thread went from there really.

My only concern is that the door barrel is the original and its actually the ignition that has been rekeyed. is there anyway to tell from decoding it and the VIN number? (I know VW asked me for the vin so they could lookup the key code).

I'll drop you a PM tonight once I get home and talk to the mrs to sort something out.

[vag824]

i dont think theres any direct relation or calculated means to get key code from VIN i think VW just have a database of VINS/key codes, its usually the other way round i find, the door lock being changed due to side/door crash damage or broken window rails and the door being changed from a scrap car.. ill wait for you to get in touch..

[vag824]

vrooze: cant reply to PM due to low post count, send me your number and ill contact you that way.

[vag824]

you dont have to drill barrel's out.. theres a proper way to get them out non destructively..

[vrooze]

you dont have to drill barrel's out.. theres a proper way to get them out non destructively..

Sorry bud I've not had a chance to get back on till this morning.

I've just looked at a few videos and it seems you can get the barrel (at least wafers bit) out with the correct key and a paperclip.

I'm gonna drop into VW today and order the door lock as I've pretty much buggered my one trying to take it apart anyway (I got a bit ragey and stopped being delicate).

I'm still interested in a price for a key cut and coding though once I get the lock sorted but that's probably going to be next month now due to lack of funds!

I'll drop you mu number in a PM if that's easier

Mark

[vrooze]

Update:

I am utter sick of this car! I received the brand new door lock from VW yesterday and my key doesn't work in it. The guy on the desk seemed very apologetic but they can't refund the key as it is coded for my VIN and once assembled cannot be disassembled (on the plus side the new one showed me exactly how they lock it in so I will be attacking the old one with a drill and pliers to see if I can release the pins).

It does however mean I have thrown £90 in the bin and the person who owned the car before me has recoded the ignition.

I now need to get the "correct" lock decoded and get the proper key blade cut before moving forwards.

Anyone know anyone in the Redditch area who can decode a lock?

I know vag824 is in Wallsall but hasn't responded recently.

Fed up.

[Crasher]

I can't be bothered to read all the way back, so where are you now with the problem?

[vrooze]

I can't be bothered to read all the way back, so where are you now with the problem?

tldr version:

I bought the car with 1 key, never tested the drivers door as I've always used the central locking. I tested it a while back and realise the key didn't work. I picked the lock and proved the lock in the door mechanically worked.
Last week I bit the bullet after being told by several people its very unlikely someone changed/recoded the ignition and probably changed the door/lock so rather than have 2 keys I bit the bullet and bought a new door barrel.
It arrived yesterday. I tested it in the showroom and it didn't work. And apparently because my specific lock is built then pins pressed in to lock the cylinder it can't be re-purposed so unable to refund it.

I've done a bit of research and it seems you can get the ignition cylinder out with a key that works (got that) and a paperclip.

Since I'm looking to sell the car next year the best "looking" solution would be to have the new "coded to the VIN" doorlock decoded and update the ignition to match.

Picking the locks not a problem however I don't have a decoder to read the pins once picked.

I also only have 1 key so would need a new blade cut for the lock before recoding the ignition.

Just ****** I've thrown away £90 as it means the doorlock thats in there is probably the original and will work with the correct key for the car :/

[Crasher]

Thank you for your précis.
So the new barrel you have is part number 107 837 168 VC and this was ordered using your VIN? If the key used in the ignition does not fit this part then the ignition barrelled will have been changed (probably due to a coil reader fault) and the people who did this very lazy/in a rush. If you wait you can order a matching barrel and if you can’t, you can carefully extract the new barrel and fit the new reader coil to the old barrel, so maintaining one key operation. And as you know, this is better for resale purposes. If you start again, then you would order 107 905 855 CF, again to VIN. What I would do is cap off the lock position using blank 1T0 837 233 B (£5) and cap 1C0 837 879 A GRU (£12.49), get a rattle can set and paint the cap and pop the blank in, therefore being able to sell it as a security “feature”…. The £90 lock will make a nice paperweight. The lack of a second key however brings a new can of worms to the table, transponder coding and remote matching. A new blank key unit is £160 genuine and then it has to be programed into the dash panel for the immobiliser and matched to the central convince system for the remote but that part is easy with full VCDS.

[vrooze]

Thank you for your précis.
So the new barrel you have is part number 107 837 168 VC and this was ordered using your VIN? If the key used in the ignition does not fit this part then the ignition barrelled will have been changed (probably due to a coil reader fault) and the people who did this very lazy/in a rush. If you wait you can order a matching barrel and if you can’t, you can carefully extract the new barrel and fit the new reader coil to the old barrel, so maintaining one key operation. And as you know, this is better for resale purposes. If you start again, then you would order 107 905 855 CF, again to VIN. What I would do is cap off the lock position using blank 1T0 837 233 B (£5) and cap 1C0 837 879 A GRU (£12.49), get a rattle can set and paint the cap and pop the blank in, therefore being able to sell it as a security “feature”…. The £90 lock will make a nice paperweight. The lack of a second key however brings a new can of worms to the table, transponder coding and remote matching. A new blank key unit is £160 genuine and then it has to be programed into the dash panel for the immobiliser and matched to the central convince system for the remote but that part is easy with full VCDS.

I've had someone with VCDS take a look at it. Issue is he reckons to recode the keys/immo you need the pin code for/from the cluster and I don't have this (unless its in the manual folder somewhere but I didn't see it) and VW can't get it for me as their tools get a temporary hash of it.

I had a quote for a key and it would, like you said, be £160 +50 to code it. I don't have that much spare cash. I could also order a new coil like you said. No idea how much they cost though.

Since I now have a spare lock for the door I know is coded to the VIN, I'm half tempted to attack the old door lock with a dremmel and carefully see if I can extract the top locking pin, not sure how hard its pressed in though.


Few questions for you if you have the time.

Do you have any idea how much the ignition cylinder is? (107905855CF) as it seems you can get the cylinder and a new key (1T0905855A) for around £100. (IGNITION CYL | Genuine Volkswagen | 1T0-905-855-A (http://www.genuineautoparts.com/uk/oe-volkswagen/1t0905855a))
That however just adds to the problem as that will be a new key.

Would getting the new ignition cylinder require any programming/coding? And is it possible to get the IMMO SKC/PIN without dumping the eeprom and another expensive or finding someone with the right cable.

Oh and one more, I have the printout/label that came with the new doorlock. Any idea if they put the key cutting code on there? As the above solutions would still require me having a key/blade cut for the new doorlock and ignition.

Cheers (and sorry for the barrage of questions)

[Crasher]

The five digit PIN code cannot be obtained by any "normal" (i.e. legal) means or the coded temporary dealer number/date linked version called an “SKC” as it is known, professional key coding companies (we use two different mobile chaps) can come out and deal with this for you but I am just going through the process of getting myself set up for this with VAG Germany to be able to use the Geko system for coding immobilisers and so far I have had to join a system called erWin (been on there for years though), then apply for a VW group identification number which so far has involved copies of mine and my business partners passports plus a letter from my accountant and I still am not there and that is only the first step to Geko approval so forget any ideas of getting around the transponder coding, it ain’t going to happen. You have two easy choices, get a mobile chap to come around and program or even provide a new key or go to a VW dealer to get them to do it. I go through this **** on a daily basis and I haven’t found a way around it yet. Over the years I have tried various ways of hacking into the pin with VAG TACHO and managed it on some older systems but the later systems are getting harder.

The door lock is not so much VIN coded, it is just a key number that is logged with the VAG system against your VIN so they can look it up. The door locks used can be played around with but not like the old locks used up until the late 90’s on most VAG models where you could get tumbler kits and make a set to match, the permutations of the latest locks with their double sided tumblers mean the sets would be huge, even when it was only four different tumblers they had to provide four bags of 50 tumblers so that all possible combinations could be made up but that expended by a factor of four when the new system started, the old kit was £83, imagine what it would cost for one four times more complex! These door locks are also a complete pain the the **** to get back together, each time I do one I have bloody stumps for fingers and no finger nails left to speak of...

What you need to avoid is a "new" (unknown to the dash) key, you can get your current key cloned so the car does not know the difference.

A new ignition barrel key matched to your cars original is £150.67 BUT that may not be the key you have, in fact it is quite likely it isn’t and you don’t know the current keys number (can’t order a lock for) the key you have IF it’s different to what it was built with!

This is a very complicated subject when I am at the bottom of a bottle and about to open another…plus I just spilled the remnants all over my desk, so now it’s sticky…. Where is my wife, wet ones please…:1zhelp:

[vrooze]

A new ignition barrel key matched to your cars original is £150.67 BUT that may not be the key you have, in fact it is quite likely it isn’t and you don’t know the current keys number (can’t order a lock for) the key you have IF it’s different to what it was built with!


a
Yeah the theory I'm going with is since I've already shelled out £90 on a door lock I probably don't need (but know it's for my VIN) I might take that to a locksmith and get it decoded. Once I have the cutting code I can always just get a blade cut as I have one of the 3 button flip keys that have a removable blade.

Then later on when I can afford to get the ignition cylinder ordered for the VIN I know the key will match the lock I bought AND the ignition.

It's madness its going to cost me £250+ to make the car more sellable and I probably wont get that back :/

[Crasher]

I have just been there, I spent £4K getting a 2009 A6 back on its feet just so it could live again.