Does my MPG look big in this ?

[Arragonis]

Hi,

I started out with the idea of trying to maximise MPG with the A6 - OK, not the best starting material. But I'm kind of confused/concerned a little about what MPG I'm getting and when compared to other reports here.

I'm wondering if there is a problem.

Firstly no faults reported or recorded apart from an occasional glow plug issue maybe once every 7K miles. I think there is a marginal glowplug (always the same one) which maybe doesn't work quite as well when it is very very cold. Sometimes the engine will "rock" a little on startup but after 1-2 seconds it goes away and all is quiet for the rest of the day, even after being parked at work for ~8-9 hours. This has happened maybe once or twice a month during both winters I've owned the car, ~10 times in total.

My daily drive consists of about 25% town driving to get to the bypass (A-road dual carriageway) and 75% the remainder. In terms of time I spend about 40% of my commute stuck in traffic (Edinburgh hates cars and loves to delay them as much as possible) and the remainder moving. The DIS will report around 31-32 sometimes, tank to tank it more like 29 on those occasions.

Even on a run though the DIS will go as high as 38 but a tank refill is closer to 35, more often 33.

Performance is not that great. OK it isn't the full fat 3.0 but it seems lacking. Maybe more so than when it arrived but that would be subjective - I had a Toyota Aygo before :D

I'm wondering about injectors. From reading threads here I know these are

a) likely to fail more on early cars than later ones (mine is a 56 plate)
b) be expensive to replace and
c) hit MPG if / when not working properly.

Thoughts anyone, gup especially... :biglaugh:

[Lukenkarl]

Gup did something about the actual mpg and dis mpg. Something to do with ecu alterations using VCDS....I think.. Search his posts

[Arragonis]

Gup did something about the actual mpg and dis mpg. Something to do with ecu alterations using VCDS....I think.. Search his posts

Yes, I saw that - he adjusted the DIS to match (his) reality in terms of MPG.

IMHO, and with respect to Gup, this was a waste of time as the DIS (like all instruments) is making a guess on consumption based on a pre-configured profile and sampling rate. He adjusted the guess factor which might work for him but will probably match nobody else. The standard guesses are those made by Audi.

The DIS and other instruments are really only useful for instant readouts, and even then they are wildly out. Just take a sample of your DIS - how many times do the same instant MPGs come out ever second or so, is it really recalculated in real time ?

Naw. :D

It's guessing. No more accurate than a wet finger in the wind to tell how warm it is.

This isn't really what I'm asking about though.

[JimC64]

Hey Aragonis...... sorry but maybe it's me ( it probably is ) but I'm still trying to figure out what you're asking?

Are you asking......

1. Is your mpg good or bad for your model?
2. How can you best improve your mpg?
3. How can you best read your mpg, as you don't trust DIS?
4. Do you have a problem with your car / injectors etc?

Thanks, hope to hear....

Jim

[Arragonis]

Hey Aragonis...... sorry but maybe it's me ( it probably is ) but I'm still trying to figure out what you're asking?

Are you asking......

1. Is your mpg good or bad for your model?
2. How can you best improve your mpg?
3. How can you best read your mpg, as you don't trust DIS?
4. Do you have a problem with your car / injectors etc?

Thanks, hope to hear....

Jim

Hi Jim

1, 2 and 4.

Cheers ☺

[gupsterg]

Hi Arragonis,

Yes, you are right that the adjustment I made to DIS will not be the same setting for everyone. Point of thread was that people would be made aware they can adjust DIS to match real world MPG more accurately. People will arrive at what adjustment to make by noting DIS average MPG and their real world and adjusting by looking at the difference between the two. Generally DIS on my car now 1-5% out which is better than 10%+ plus this adjustment effects range reading as well, instant average I never use/view as it fluctuates so wildly.

TBH I don't think for the financial layout for new injectors and other elements of work to improve MPG that you'd see such a big improvement to be able to justify it or recoup the outlay. Until you have real issue from the injectors not functioning correctly I'd just let it go for now.

When your doing comparison with other 2.7 TDi's are they non quattro cars?

[Arragonis]

Hi,

Thanks for looking in!

Agreed - your adjustments to the DIS will work for your driving profile. Have you noticed the instant readout only has a few fixed values ? It was an interesting hack though ;)


TBH I don't think for the financial layout for new injectors and other elements of work to improve MPG that you'd see such a big improvement to be able to justify it or recoup the outlay. Until you have real issue from the injectors not functioning correctly I'd just let it go for now.

Thanks for this - you are probably right.

Current plan is a change of car December 2016 so I have 2 years to run, currently running at 16K miles over 14 months so another 20-24K planned miles possibly to recoup any investment. I did have a really bad dip in MPG last autumn which made me think something was off but no errors and it went back up again.

Might remap instead :D


When your doing comparison with other 2.7 TDi's are they non quattro cars?

A mix probably, I've paid more attention when people have quoted figures for a V6 Quattros both 2.7 and 3.0s as they will also be autos. Several places too, here and elsewhere. Several people have also suggested 40+ on a run, never been close to that in mine. Maybe I'm getting the wrong end of the stick ?

PS Click on my fuelly below, highest ever was 38 but that was a while ago (October 2013) and not been consistantly close since.

[Peter D]

What model of car, engine code, gear box, tyre size and make. Regards Peter

[gupsterg]

PS Click on my fuelly below, highest ever was 38 but that was a while ago (October 2013) and not been consistantly close since.

My fuelly account (http://www.fuelly.com/car/audi/a6_quattro/2005/gupsterg/135945) , if you sort it by average MPG best result was 3mths before injector change and the 3rd best is also with the chocolate injectors. This was driving it like a complete nun and knowingly trying to get best MPG. All other 8 results on that page are the new injectors and not knowingly trying to attain best MPG.

Now if I look at my annual report you can see 2012 (old inj) vs 2013 (new inj) average MPG not any better. Comparing years average mpg of 2013 vs 2014 I have a 3.5 MPG increase (14.5%) why? the car started to be used more on m-way and move to countryside meant my non m-way driving is not sitting in traffic.

When browsing on fuelly there's one 2011 3.0 TDi Avant (http://www.fuelly.com/car/audi/a6_quattro/2011/gnarts/204920) yearly his figures are 28.5 / 33.4 / 30.1 , then in Jan 15 he stops updates either he's sold car or was depressed looking at the erratic curve and thought I'm stopping this! LOL

37mpg is only reported by the lone 3.0 TDi Manual (http://www.fuelly.com/car/audi/a6_quattro/2010/Eagleboy/73061/annual) owner in the 2010 section, no 2009's, 2008 we got 1 chap 24.9mpg (3.0 TDi Auto Saloon) and our very own Chris 30.8mpg (3.0 TDi Manual Saloon). 2007 section an Avant 3.0 Auto 27.8mpg , mmulla location london 21.4mpg and there's the Italian stallion with a 3.0 Saloon getting 36mpg but states 95% m-way.

In 2006 section theirs you , Rosscow @ 31.8mpg manual avant and last chap 28.1 mpg.

In 2005 section 33.8 / 25.9 / 25.7 / 30.3 / 39.2 , looking at dates and miles done the member with 39.2mpg must have done lots of m-way.

To me about 30 mpg real world is about average and only peeps which cherry V6's or very good driving habit / conditions reach higher. I agree the sample data is not big enough on fuelly to be conclusive and lack of 2.7 TDi's but gives a good idea on the V6 TDi.

[msh]

Hi there,

I think the fuel economy of this 2.7 tdi is very poor. i have got a 3.2 FSI Quattro and I am getting an average figure of 26 MPG with a best of 33 MPG on a long run. This is also worked out on Fuelly.

I cant see the point on having a diesel if the MPG is low !

[MarkTM]

To me about 30 mpg real world is about average and only peeps which cherry V6's or very good driving habit / conditions reach higher.

Totally agree, when I purchased my 07 3.0 in Aug 2012 with 79k miles on the clock DIS2 was reading 32.2, now at 107k miles it reads 39.5, now we all know DIS is out, but if it's consistently out it's accurate (if that makes sense?) So effectively in 24% of it's total miles I have increased it's efficiency/consumption by over 18%, to do so I must have driven quite frugally.

But then, unlike the previous owner, I have driven in environments where I rarely see a traffic jam or even congestion and drive in such a way where I hardly use my brakes and loose momentum. This style it seems is highly unusual and can be quite disconcerting to passengers, yesterday for instance took girlfriend to a hospital appointment 80 miles away in Devon and she openly expressed concern at the way I took roundabouts (as in too fast). Couldn't reassure her that it was at less than 15 mph and that I'd not touched the loud pedal for about half a mile beforehand :D So just took the precaution of just asking her to close her eyes when one approached!

Total DIS for the journey was 51mpg, which with smaller 245/40/18 winter rubber. I know to be about 5% out

So my take is that your mpg will increase significantly if you either

1) Move to a more rural location, or
2) Change your driving style

If you do both it'll be a win win! If not then just enjoy the car and take the usual tips to increase mpg (as stated by the well known motoring organisations). Weirdly I've never seen them suggest loosing weight...a suggestion I made to a (somewhat portly) driver of a similarly modified sports car I owned when he couldn't match my 0-60 times. Not perhaps the greatest move since he was president of the said car club :(

[Arragonis]

What model of car, engine code, gear box, tyre size and make. Regards Peter

2.7 TDi TIP Quattro, tyres are the standard size for 19"s, wheels are standard sizes but wrong offset - but will stay for now, codes - whatever the 2007 (56) plate ones used. :mad: I did post the code before as I'm lucky enough to have a rare early DPF model - lucky me...


...To me about 30 mpg real world is about average and only peeps which cherry V6's or very good driving habit / conditions reach higher. I agree the sample data is not big enough on fuelly to be conclusive and lack of 2.7 TDi's but gives a good idea on the V6 TDi.

Maybe I should just live with it then.


...But then, unlike the previous owner, I have driven in environments where I rarely see a traffic jam or even congestion and drive in such a way where I hardly use my brakes and loose momentum...

Total DIS for the journey was 51mpg, which with smaller 245/40/18 winter rubber. I know to be about 5% out

I drive this way pretty much most of the time but it can be tricky, never been close to mid-40s in the A6. I got my Fabia VRS into the high 60s on occasions (DIS).

Also if I have to stop in traffic then its a shift to N and even maybe engine off if going to be stopped for long, I know most of the light sequences here although they like to "fiddle" with them occasionally. Every trip ends up with a "regression to the mean" result - high 20s-low 30s going to work (uphill), mid-high 30s going home (downhill). I can have the DIS showing mid-40s mid journey and then it goes down.

I'll maybe do a full video sometime.


So my take is that your mpg will increase significantly if you either

1) Move to a more rural location, or
2) Change your driving style

If you do both it'll be a win win! If not then just enjoy the car and take the usual tips to increase mpg (as stated by the well known motoring organisations). Weirdly I've never seen them suggest loosing weight...a suggestion I made to a (somewhat portly) driver of a similarly modified sports car I owned when he couldn't match my 0-60 times. Not perhaps the greatest move since he was president of the said car club :(

I'd love to leave Edinburgh. Unfortunately when I suggested moving Mrs A was enthusiastic - to move closer into town...

[Peter D]

The engine code is a 3 letter code like BPP or BSG and is in the service book or the ID label in the spare wheel bay. No mention of the gear box type or code.

Regards Peter

[MarkTM]

I'd love to leave Edinburgh. Unfortunately when I suggested moving Mrs A was enthusiastic - to move closer into town...

Aaah yes the shoe collection expansion would suffer :biglaugh:

[Arragonis]

Been away for a few days, just returned to fill up. Usual pottering and only got 29 MPG for a tank (fuelly updated).

I might do a video of the journey for tips next week.

EDIT - forgot to mention tank to tank average MPG and the DIS was only different by 0.2 MPG :aargh4:

[Arragonis]

The engine code is a 3 letter code like BPP or BSG and is in the service book or the ID label in the spare wheel bay. No mention of the gear box type or code.

Regards Peter

Engine code is BPP on the label in the boot, the label also confirmed the presence of the DPF, see here (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?156296-Possible-DPF-Issue&p=889783#post889783).
I believe there is a label on the gearbox but that is underneath ?

[gupsterg]

On that same sticker look for section/heading "Trans.Code:"

[Arragonis]

On that same sticker look for section/heading "Trans.Code:"

HNN HST

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-2R9ArH8eIPY/U8ggOqVzoTI/AAAAAAAABUA/moqHyPFuACE/w1276-h712-no/DPF.jpg

Reading the DPF thread I linked to above I remembered I started using additives again at about the same time. I used to use them in previous diesels but had got out of the habit as my previous car was a petrol. Might start to leave them out at the next tank and see what happens.

[gupsterg]

Engine Code: BPP
Transmission code: HST
Rear (Final) drive unit code: HNN

Audi A6 Avant 2.7 TDi quattro Tiptronic (MY06) with DPF
UK Reg year 2007 (56)

[Arragonis]

Yep.

[PaulF2.5TDi]

We're running a 3.0 Allroad, 175,000 miles with a manual box, our other cars are in my sig.

We use the 'Road Trip' App religiously for all our cars.

We get 35MPG average out of the Allroad, 5 minutes off-road then driving a 45 minute steady, country road commute, then a 45 minute city drive daily.
The suspension is usually in Automatic - although we also often have it in Allroad for the drive to the road than Dynamic for some spirited country road driving - it doesn't seem to matter much.

For comparison the 2.5TDi Q A4 gets 41(down from 43 over 5 years)

The DIS was way out and not consistently - RossTech give info on how to adjust it. I put mine up by almost the max and it still over-reads.

There were manifold flap problems when I got the car and when sorting them out I also de-gunked the manifolds.
Search for images - they all look like that so a de-gunk would help your engine breath better.
I believe Gups also did the EGR cooler/system on his at the same time with some success.

I had previously done my 2.5 TDi A4 manifolds, and had a small (1-2) mpg increase.

I keep my tyre pressures on the high side of correct, and if my MPG drops on either the A6 or A4 I check for binding brakes - quite common for me to find.
I use Castrol Edge fully synthetic oil every 10,000 miles and change all filters once a year.

It goes without saying that you should remove roof-racks where possible (I have permanent bars on the Allroad) along with ??cwt sacks of 'Stuff' in the boot you forgot about.

[Arragonis]

...

Thanks Paul. There is a dark blue All-Road that lives up the street from me, I wondered for a moment if that was you ;) A BMW 735 visits occasionally so they like bigger motors.

I've pondered the flaps fix but not had the time, space and bravery to tackle it myself yet. It might have had this already being an early model, but the service history I got just listed long-life visits to Glasgow Audi (every 18K) - I prefer 10K myself like you and last ones have been at 9.5K and 11.3K intervals :D Edinburgh Audi didn't give me a service printout last time I was there, I will try again.

I did look at Gups intake cleaning pain and I did take off and clean the intake bit on mine - it was very clean in my car (there is a thread on it here (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?161864-TB-Cleaning-Photos)), maybe the DPF helped with this ? - so not much work to do. The car seemed happier after it was done although this might have been a placebo on my part.

I keep my "tyres painted on" at a high-ish pressure - it was me pumping them up which made me wonder about the battery (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?164943-Battery-on-it-s-way-out&p=947543#post947543).

[PaulF2.5TDi]

My once dark blue Allroad is now mud coloured - so not me!

I saw your battery thread good news in the end.

I can always adjust the DIS MPG if you are in my neck of the woods any time?
(I've a genuine HEX-CAN now for the Allroad as well as the KII)

I did the intake flaps fix - it didn't seem to make any MPG difference but was quite cheap and easy enough to do.
It also only lasted 6months on one side so I'll be contacting the Eastern Europe folks with the new intakes once the weather improves. (…..and I decide whether I'm changing the B5 or not!)