Audi A6 C7 fuel system and warranty problems

[patrik.gorlo]

Hi,
I'm the owner of 2012 Audi A6 2.0 tdi. 3 days ago car has just stopped with no warning lights on dashboard. Car was taken to the dealer as it's 57 000m and less than 3 years old.
Not even knowing what was the issue I expected the car to be repaired under warranty. Today, I received call from dealer. They are saying that it's fuel pump damaged and it 's very likely that someone in the past put petrol in the car ( they're assuming this looking at the type of damage). BUT THEY ACTUALLY DID NOT FIND ANY PETROL IN THE CAR!! ONLY DIESEL That's something I don't understand. That's why they might not cover it under warranty. They say that they will check if change of fuel pump will help. If it will, they'll do it under warranty. If not they will decline warranty. For me it's obvious that if the pump it's damaged, all fuel system needs to be repaired. Changing pump won't help. I feel like they're making an idiot of me!
Any suggestions,please

[Justinos]

No, they aren't taking the P. If as they suspect the pump is damaged due to previous fuelling error, then they can't be expected to replace the entire fuel system under warranty. Its not a fault with the car due to faulty parts as such, but human error, not yours granted. You will do well if they replace the pump under warranty. This is the risk you take buying second hand.

[Pikey Narna]

Sorry I disagree. If you buy a car with a warranty of x y or z months then that is it final. If they aren't prepared to repair the car under warranty this is a clear breach of trading standards.

I run my own garage door company and if the home owner sells their house the 10 year warranty that comes with the door still continues. You accept the fact you pay a few quid extra for that undisputed warranty.

I would request the repair be carried out under the warranty offered or consider handing the car back.

Andy

[kite]

If the Garage Door you supplied and fitted is damaged by vandalism does your warranty cover it ?

[fest0r]

Not sure why the whole fuelling system would need to be replaced unless it had been contaminated so I would be hopeful it was just a faulty pump and a valid claim. IMHO using the wrong fuel (or contaminated fuel) is never a warranty issue. You might have a claim if you bought the car recently and an independent assessor proved the damage/misfuelling was done prior to purchase… the seller would then be responsible for any repairs.

Total speculation, but with the number of incidents I would guess they have some sensor or other method of detecting incorrect fuel use even if there is currently no petrol in the system.

@ Pikey Narna, I see where you’re coming from, but it’s akin to someone using the wrong lubricant on the garage door then making a claim when it seizes up.

[Justinos]

The OP doesn't state where he bought the car, just that he is trying to use the original 3 year car warranty. I agree if the car was bought 2nd from a dealer then that is worth looking at, but will be a nightmare to make stick.

[fest0r]

Might still be someone else that’s to blame:

Poorly A6 (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?161065-Poorly-A6&p=920935#post920935)

[patrik.gorlo]

Thank for your answers,
I did 20 000 m on the car. Never put any petrol and car didn't make any problems at all. I called couple of experts including: car independent inspector, diesel fuel system specialist and others. All of them saying that Audi can't prove that there was petrol in the car at any point, if they didn't actually find it. They say that it would damage the system straight away, not after 20000 m.

[patrik.gorlo]

By the way they didn't say that they've got any sensor or system to prove. They say that it ,,LOOKS LIKE... or IT IS LIKELY looking at the damage. It's just their expert eye making decision. NO EVIDENCE, TESTS etc.... In most of the times, if the pump is damaged, there's metal pieces from it in the fuel tank, injectors etc. Basicly, it should be all changed

[fest0r]

Sounds like you’re sorted then… if they refuse a warranty claim then ask for their reason in writing.

The same applies to your own assumptions though… you will need to prove there is a fault and/or requirement to change the whole fuel system. I would have thought a dealer would love that amount of legitimate warranty work.

[patrik.gorlo]

I can get report from Fuel system repair company and from Independent Inspector saying that there's no proof that there was petrol in the car at any point. But the question is if Audi would accept them?

[zollaf]

anything like that in writing from an expert is only going to come if they can physically inspect the damaged components. they are not going to put their neck on the line when it could end up in court and they would have to explain how they can be certain no petrol was put in the car, ever. but, add a small amount of petrol and run the car and damage may be done to the high pressure pump, causing minute pieces of swarfe to enter the system. these then block the injectors and eventaully te car stops. so, a full strip of all the fuel system components, tank, all lines, common rail, filter and housing, pump in tank, high pressure pump and injectors is needed and this is going to cost a bomb. of course no one wants to pay for this so a big argument occurs. you say no petrol has ever been in it, but you can't prove it, but if they won't do it under warranty you end up with a car you cannot use or sell. personally, i would hate to be in your shoes right now. good luck.

[kite]

Just a word about warranty.
I think Audi cover years 1 and 2, dealer covers year 3.

[patrik.gorlo]

I already called them and they are willing to write report. After Audi gives me final report, I will ask them to let me show the car to my experts. They can't prove as well that there was petrol in the car, first of all. Secondly, all you wrote about damage is right. But do you think it would happen after 20000 miles which I did in the car.

[Pikey Narna]

Vandalism or did the customer have to use excessive force due to a fault ??????? Going back to the original thread........no petrol was found !!!!






If the Garage Door you supplied and fitted is damaged by vandalism does your warranty cover it ?

[fest0r]

I already called them and they are willing to write report. After Audi gives me final report, I will ask them to let me show the car to my experts. They can't prove as well that there was petrol in the car, first of all. Secondly, all you wrote about damage is right. But do you think it would happen after 20000 miles which I did in the car.

It sounds like the dealer is claiming that the type of damage/failure can only be caused by misfuelling or contamination. If that’s the case then your independent’s report would also need to establish a manufacturing fault or mechanical failure could also cause the issue… not just that there is no evidence of petrol in the system. Did you see the post I linked too? A little contamination previously could also be to blame.

http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?161065-Poorly-A6&p=920935#post920935


Just a word about warranty.
I think Audi cover years 1 and 2, dealer covers year 3.

I bought an extended 5 year warranty (DtD/Crawley) so are you saying that the dealer who supplied the car is liable for any warranty claims years 3, 4 and 5?

[johnsimcox]

Think extended warranty is different as you are buying an Audi warranty product. Kite was referring to the terms of the standard 3 year 60k warranty

[fest0r]

Thanks for the info. How does that work though? Is the supplying dealer liable or the one you get the work done at? Big incentive to refuse work if it’s the later :(

[johnsimcox]

The third year of the standard warranty is a dealer backed warranty (I think it is actually backed by Audi UK who run the dealer network) and is not dependent on a specific dealer. The first two years are Audi AG run as that is their obligation under EU law

[patrik.gorlo]

Hi,
That's correct. 3rd year is importer backed up warranty. Good reason to void it!!!!!
After 9 days we were told, that warranty is voided due to petrol contamination at some point. Still, no petrol found right now.
But......
WE DID NOT RECIEVE ANY REPORT EXPLAINING HOW THEY GOT THIS IDEA
ACTUALLY WE DIDN'T RECEIVE ANY WRITTEN STATEMENT
MOREOVER, WE WERE TOLD THAT THIS KIND OF REPORTS ARE TO BE SEEN ONLY BY THEIR TECHNICANS

MY QUESTION IS THEN:
ON WHAT BASIS I SHOULD BELIEVE THEM?

[Whippy53]

I personally would be talking to a solicitor, advice and if appropriate, a letter from them to Audi would be cheap enough.

[fest0r]

That’s unlucky :(

Did they at least give you a cost and/or any details on what needs replaced? With around 150,000 cases a year I would have thought they have some way of detecting misfuelling. It might just be a judgment call from a technician the way they sometimes do when suspecting performance mods though.

I would contact Audi UK directly and if they are just as unhelpful then get an independent assessment. If it favours your position then the small claims court limit is up to £10,000 now. Disclosure is not quite as wide-ranging there, but if Audi intend to use the report at the hearing they will have to provide it to you. They have no obligation until the case is raised, but it might be worth a solicitor’s letter asking them to provide the report prior to the small claims track.

[johnsimcox]

Also insist that any parts they replace are retained and passed to you so that you can have then independently inspected. You don't want them going missing or substituted for parts from a car that really was contaminated

[patrik.gorlo]

They still didn't give me the cost of repair. I contacted Audi UK and they are unhelpful. I'm gonna get independent assessment. And thank you for your advise about small claims court.
I just don't get why they don't want to provide me with the report to prove their version.

[patrik.gorlo]

Hi,
I've got some BIG NEWS for you how Audi services treat customers. We had to give back courtesy car on Friday, so we took some staff from our car, including on-board camera.
So, we brought car on 18.02.
It was only touched for one hour on Tuesday 24.02.
Then, it was moved from service are late on 24.02 and then moved away on 25.02. Afterwards it wasn't touched!!!!!!!
We got decision by phone late afternoon on Friday 27.02!!!!!!!
In these 2 days they didn't even prepare written statement of what's wrong, why they won't cover it and what's the cost of repair.
So, they just didn't give a ......about this car!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[fest0r]

What dealership?

[Fat Magpie]

Sorry to say but if it was due to improper or contaminated fuel I do not think you have much of a case, the are big problems in N Ireland with fuel smuggling, Agricultural diesel is being processed (badly) by criminal gangs and sold at garages, the processing to remove the fuel marker leaves the fuel acidic, damage to engines varies but its the same old story of the engine dieing. When the fuel system is examined the damage can be seen. Even if they dont find petrol in the system the damage may be apparent from a previous fueling.

[Chesterfield313]

Sorry to say but if it was due to improper or contaminated fuel I do not think you have much of a case, the are big problems in N Ireland with fuel smuggling, Agricultural diesel is being processed (badly) by criminal gangs and sold at garages, the processing to remove the fuel marker leaves the fuel acidic, damage to engines varies but its the same old story of the engine dieing. When the fuel system is examined the damage can be seen. Even if they dont find petrol in the system the damage may be apparent from a previous fueling.

But, The main point is Audi have given no detail and have just messed the owner around. The only validity their argument has, is if NO other circumstance can cause that same damage. I'd be pushing for a clearer reponse and would certainly be sending a solicitors letter if they weren't willing to be more detailed. It strikes me that they have very little concern over customer retention.

[johnsimcox]

Hi,
I've got some BIG NEWS for you how Audi services treat customers. We had to give back courtesy car on Friday, so we took some staff from our car, including on-board camera.
So, we brought car on 18.02.
It was only touched for one hour on Tuesday 24.02.
Then, it was moved from service are late on 24.02 and then moved away on 25.02. Afterwards it wasn't touched!!!!!!!
We got decision by phone late afternoon on Friday 27.02!!!!!!!
In these 2 days they didn't even prepare written statement of what's wrong, why they won't cover it and what's the cost of repair.
So, they just didn't give a ......about this car!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Couple of things. Firstly your experience is not the whole of Audi but a single dealer who is most likely a franchise and not owned by Audi. Why did you return courtesy car when yours had not been fixed, what was the dealer expecting you to drive in its place? Finally it seems you only had the car a matter of days. Did you refuel it in that time and if so do you have the receipt that categorically shows that you fuelled the car with he correct fuel. If you have not fuelled it and can show that the amount of fuel in the car on purchase (usually in the invoice) and the mileage done equates to the amount of fuel left in the car then the contaminated fuel much have been in the car when you bought it. Either way if the fuel is contaminated and not by you then the dealer is liable, unless it can be shown that the fuel added by you was contaminated at the filling station, again not unheard of and worth checking with them if they have had other owners complaining. If on reflection you decide you did somehow put the wrong fuel in then it may be covered by your insurance, worth checking.

[Chesterfield313]

Couple of things. Firstly your experience is not the whole of Audi but a single dealer who is most likely a franchise and not owned by Audi. Why did you return courtesy car when yours had not been fixed, what was the dealer expecting you to drive in its place? Finally it seems you only had the car a matter of days. Did you refuel it in that time and if so do you have the receipt that categorically shows that you fuelled the car with he correct fuel. If you have not fuelled it and can show that the amount of fuel in the car on purchase (usually in the invoice) and the mileage done equates to the amount of fuel left in the car then the contaminated fuel much have been in the car when you bought it. Either way if the fuel is contaminated and not by you then the dealer is liable, unless it can be shown that the fuel added by you was contaminated at the filling station, again not unheard of and worth checking with them if they have had other owners complaining. If on reflection you decide you did somehow put the wrong fuel in then it may be covered by your insurance, worth checking.


I think skim reading the thread has meant you don't have the whole picture. The OP states earlier in his thread that he has done 20,000 miles in the car and the dealer doesn't say there is wrong or contaminated fuel in there now, just they are saying there once was. No possible way of knowing when, even if they are right. No possible recourse with any filling station.

Presumably if audi are saying very little and refusing to repair at their cost, there will be charges for the courtesy car, hence it being returned?

[johnsimcox]

I think skim reading the thread has meant you don't have the whole picture. The OP states earlier in his thread that he has done 20,000 miles in the car and the dealer doesn't say there is wrong or contaminated fuel in there now, just they are saying there once was. No possible way of knowing when, even if they are right. No possible recourse with any filling station.

Presumably if audi are saying very little and refusing to repair at their cost, there will be charges for the courtesy car, hence it being returned?
You are right I missed that point, the post as car was "brought on 18.02" misled me. Still don't understand why the dealer has not advised the owner about the cost of repair seems very odd

[patrik.gorlo]

So,
Call to Audi UK. I'm told that no decision has been made. They say that on Friday their technician asked dealer for more details including investigation of fuel sample.
Dealer on Friday said that warranty was declined and this decision was approved by Audi UK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

[A6ian]

Well, my MY2014 2.0 has a missfueling device fitted as standard, is this a new thing or was it also in the MY 2012? Just a thought. if it's there it'll add a whole different argument. And will support your case.

If it is possible, on your car, to actually fill with the wrong fuel, it is not necessarily the cause of the pump failure unless it can be proven. This would be by finding the wrong fuel type. it is not evidence to say it probably was the cause. If they will not cover it under warranty, I think if you get a lawyer involved you will win, as they have to prove it without doubt was the cause, to do this they would have to have an independent report, what is probable, is that they will try to avoid paying out if they can, at your innocent expense.

It's a mechanical item which has always got a chance of failure, this may be accelerated if wrong fuel is used, but it's not definite, just probable.

Just my 2 penneth, for what it's worth.

I would fight if i was 100% i'd not put the wrong fuel in and had done 20000 miles, i would have expected the part to fail earlier and still have traces of the wrong fuel there.

[whitter45]

Is the car on Audi Finance - if so cancel payments now. You will find it gets resolved very quickly

We had to resort to this on the Father-in-laws BMW when it started to leak (convertible). Messed around for months until we cancelled payments and BMW finance got involved and resolved the issue in 5 days

[daycartes]

Is the car on Audi Finance - if so cancel payments now. You will find it gets resolved very quickly

We had to resort to this on the Father-in-laws BMW when it started to leak (convertible). Messed around for months until we cancelled payments and BMW finance got involved and resolved the issue in 5 days
Not very good advice I'm afraid. Most CAB would tell you that stopping payments is not a good idea as you are then breaking the terms of your contract. If you were to write to them to state your complaint and how you want it to be resolved and then gave them a time frame in which to act you would stand on firmer ground.

[patrik.gorlo]

Hi everyone,
So we had to pay 3700 for repair ( 10 % goodwill from dealer and from Audi UK).
We collected the car today to find out that there is missfuelling device fitted!!!!
Anyway we took it to 2 petrol stations to make sure that you can't put petrol nozzle in it. And it's impossible to put petrol in the car!
We will be contacting Audi UK tomorrow.
A6ian thank you for your advice!!!

[A6ian]

Hi everyone,
So we had to pay 3700 for repair ( 10 % goodwill from dealer and from Audi UK).
We collected the car today to find out that there is missfuelling device fitted!!!!
Anyway we took it to 2 petrol stations to make sure that you can't put petrol nozzle in it. And it's impossible to put petrol in the car!
We will be contacting Audi UK tomorrow.
A6ian thank you for your advice!!!

Its just a bit sad that the dealer didn't know this. I would be looking at getting interest on the cash you've wrongly been forced to pay. They don't have a leg to stand on, I've tried to get the petrol nozzle in, just to try it, it's impossible.

Glad it helped you.

[fest0r]

Keep in mind the fuel at the pump can be contaminated… as per the post I linked to above:

Poorly A6 (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?161065-Poorly-A6&p=920935#post920935)

[wildbore]

Hi everyone,
So we had to pay 3700 for repair ( 10 % goodwill from dealer and from Audi UK).
We collected the car today to find out that there is missfuelling device fitted!!!!

Presumably fitted by the person who originally misfueled it (and managed to get away with it - or thought they had)??

EDIT: Sorry - misunderstood. So this was a factory-fitted misfueling device?

[A6ian]

Presumably fitted by the person who originally misfueled it (and managed to get away with it - or thought they had)??

EDIT: Sorry - misunderstood. So this was a factory-fitted misfueling device?

I bought my car new and it had one fitted. I presume all C7s have it.

[patrik.gorlo]

It's factory fitted misfueling device.

[Bob Craig]

Audi aims to stop misfuelling | Autocar (http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motoring/audi-aims-stop-misfuelling)

[patrik.gorlo]

Finally, Audi offered refund. As the car is fitted with misfuelling device, they knew that they are losing control. We will have to wait 2 weeks for the check. After all, I'd suggest you to always fight and never fully believe in ,,technicians'' opinions. From my experience, it seems like when they find the reason to decline the claim, they'll always do it. Probably, if I wasn't mechanically aware and really confident, they would make a good deal. I'm just wandering how many people was cheated this way.
Thanks for all your advice.