Dmf change to smf?

[wafers]

The clutch on my pd130 Audi A4 is very thin and I'm going to have to bite the bullet pronto to replace it. I'm assuming the dmf is also the original, so that'll have to be replaced at the same time.
Looking at prices, it's significantly cheaper to replace the setup with a single mass flywheel. I've heard various stories about the pros and cons, but am still unsure on the final verdict. I am aware that the dmf was fitted to cut down on vibration and noise, but get the impression that some smfs are very different in their nature.
Any thoughts or opinions from those who have gone down, or at least considered this route?

[zollaf]

deviate from standard at your peril.

[Doctle Odd]

I have a 99 octavia, They changed from smf to dmf mid 99, I thought about this and eventually bit the bullet, mine had dmf

[wafers]

Thanks for the replies. Still unsure... May have to dig around tinternet a bit more...

[green A8]

Oh Lord not the old SMF v DMF debate, In the mood for a horror story? Read on. Not strictly all the fault of the SMF conversion kit, but as for the muppet who installed it.....

One of the younger members of the family bought a B6 TDi off a friend and workmate. So, a private sale no comebacks, sold as seen ect, a couple of years ago. Nice looking motor very clean ect. But it had a fault, in spite of a very recently fitted new clutch. This item was fitted by a friend of a friend of the sellers family, he was an expert part time mechanic. The clutch was very very heavy, there seemed to be judder present and the car was vibrating a lot more than you'd expect, almost as if something was loose (it was). Sometimes the starter motor would make a 'funny' noise. The owner complained to me, so I put it on the ramp and dropped the gearbox. To my surprise it had been fitted with a new SMF conversion. Surprise turned to horror then anger when I saw just how the village idiot who installed it had set about the task. He must have got bored or distracted whilst doing the job as the pressure plate was missing two retaining bolts! And the crankshaft to flywheel bolts were little more than finger tight. In short the car was almost dangerous. God knows what damage or injury may have been done if the flywheel had detatched at 3000 RPM. I shudder to think, I've never seen such a bodge.

To repair the car I fitted a nice new DMF and clutch kit, and added a new starter motor. It was then discovered that the input shaft on the gearbox was slightly bent and that the splines on the shaft were damaged. Cue one reconditioned gearbox, and one very disgruntled and somewhat poorer Audi B6 owner, even though my labour costs to a family member were nil. The car remains with it's owner to this day. I get to service it every 5,000 miles. It's not missed a beat since having it's gearbox and clutch fitted. In fact for the miles it's done it has to be one of our most reliable family cars. (It'll blow up next week now that I've stated that!) Though it is due a suspension overhaul before the next MOT.

[Eshrules]

Thanks for the replies. Still unsure... May have to dig around tinternet a bit more...

you'll find many that support the conversion you're suggesting - I don't doubt that for certain applications it works and can prove beneficial.

For a daily runner that needs to be reliable and comfortable to drive however, I would heed the advice issued above.

If the cost of the repair is what scares you (without being facetious) it might be wise to change car and/or start using public transport. VAG cars are rarely cheap to fix when things go wrong, especially those adorned with the four rings.

Just out of interest, what are the quotes you've had? Parts only or inclusive of fitting? And how does the DMF compare to the SMF?

[green A8]

To be fair Esh. Nothing fitted with a DMF is cheap come replacement time regardless of the badge on the grille. A pal of mine runs a Mondeo estate that had to have this job done back in the summer (It also had to have a new starter motor fitted at the same time)It cost a good few hundred including labour. I was on hols at the time or I would have gladly stepped in and done the job for him at no charge other than parts. Another friend was quoted £1,700 for his Merc E class clutch job, but that was a London based car.

[Eshrules]

To be fair Esh. Nothing fitted with a DMF is cheap come replacement time regardless of the badge on the grille. A pal of mine runs a Mondeo estate that had to have this job done back in the summer (It also had to have a new starter motor fitted at the same time)It cost a good few hundred including labour. I was on hols at the time or I would have gladly stepped in and done the job for him at no charge other than parts. Another friend was quoted £1,700 for his Merc E class clutch job, but that was a London based car.

Although I don't disagree with you, I probably wasn't clear enough with my post - I was referring more to the premium charged for four ring spares, compared to other marques.

It's a common misconception that as cars get older they should get cheaper to fix when the reality is the opposite. It's often overlooked that these cars were £25k+ brand new and the fact that it's 10+ years old doesn't alter that, nor the cost of the parts to fix them!

Every time I have to work on the OH's focus I'm reminded of just how much I miss my polo - something she is duly reminded of at the same time.

[green A8]

I 100% agree with you Esh. I'm afraid that many subscribe to the opinion that an older car equals a car that is cheaper to maintain. if you want concrete proof of this ask VOSA how many cars fail their MOT due to defective tyres. the answer may shock you. If a car owner can't be bothered to check the condition of the tyres what is he/she doing driving a car in the first place?

Usually a car that is cheap to maintain is so very cheap because no maintainance is performed other than maybe the odd oil change now and again. The MOT catches up with these people in the end. I see it all the time. When the MOT garage presents the shocked car owner with a large quote to 'get it through the test this time' they normally panic. It's quite normal for the car to be scrapped and another 'cheapie' bought and so it goes on, it's the economy of fools, sorry to be blunt, but it is. Save a few hundred quid to spend a few hundred quid on yet another old car that just scraped through it's last MOT. Sometimes they come running to me for a cheap fix as they regard the perfectly fair labour charges to be a 'rip off' If they're friends they might be lucky, if not then I'm afraid they'll have to grin and bear the cost of motoring.

As you know I maintain my fleet myself. My old 1996 A8 has had more spent on it than I could ever recoup if I were to try to sell it. the same is true of most of the family fleet I maintain them as we used to maintain aircraft eg a fixed life for certain parts either miles or months. And routine oil changes at least twice a year or every 5,000 miles using fully synthetic oil and OEM filters. But then I'm daft you see Esh. Strange that I've not had a car fail it's MOT for many years. Certainly not since I've retired, and I know that the car I drive is up to snuff and should barring accidents get me where I want to go. Even if it breaks down I'll fix it, if it's beyond me to do so then off to Audi it goes.

Damn I know more than a few who don't even know how to open the bonnet of the car they've driven for years! Now that is a statment and a half.

[zollaf]

'repairs will cost more than the car is worth' is the phrase that titillates me the most. 'well sir, your car is worth 50 quid at best, so yes, a tyre will cost more than its worth, now go buy a buspass, you moron'.

[green A8]

'repairs will cost more than the car is worth' is the phrase that titillates me the most. 'well sir, your car is worth 50 quid at best, so yes, a tyre will cost more than its worth, now go buy a buspass, you moron'.

I like it Zoll. Yet it's so very true. At the moment in the garage I've got my old B5 1.9 TDi (AFN). My sister uses it now. She's using our Allroad for the day. It was only in for a 'minor service' last week, Oil and filter plus fuel air and pollen filter, and a general check around. I've discovered that the N/S rear axle mounting bush looks a bit knackered so the pair are going to be changed. Wifeys nipped down to Audi to pick up the bits I ordered, As the bushes securing nuts and bolts look past their best I ordered up a pair of each whilst I was at it.

Hey, Zoll! I've probably spent more on this repair than the car is worth. Where can I get my moronic buspass :p

[zollaf]

one golf i look after is an old mk4. its a bit of a heap but solid enough. passed the mot back in the summer, just, with some advises for a rusty rear axle and dodgy brakes. anyway, we did the work for her, and the bill was 1600 quid alltogether. thats new shocks, brakes, caliper, pipes, used rear axle, bushes etc..... , a lot of work. the car is now as good as it ca be for an old mk4 golf, which are as good as cars get really, but the repairs cot twice what the car is worth, but, she has had it 8 years and religiously looked after it, but never washed it. so its had the timing belt done and far too many oil changes and there is no rust on it. she didn't hesitate it spending the money.

[green A8]

That's the way to do it, though look after the car. It sounds a bit like some of our family cars. I think one MOT examiner described the A4 TDi Avant (AFN) as 'over serviced' but then he added that it was a pleasure to see an 'old 'un' in such good nick. I'm not sure if he was talking about the Audi or my Sister! I think the best compliment ever paid by an MOT examiner was when I MOT'd my old S8. He came into the waiting room and told me that he really tried to fail the car but simply couldn't, I'd asked him to be tough on it as it was the first time I'd had to MOT a car of my own in over twenty years due to having company cars. He then offered to buy the car off me. I should have sold it as a fortnight later the torque converter blew a seal, it's still in storage waiting for me to fix it.

Though £1600 for all that work with new parts to me is not expensive. After all that owner knows her car and all that been done to it. I've seen people scrap cars needing a quarter of that money spending on them to get through the MOT. They then buy a three to four year old motor on the never never, spend next door to nothing on maintaining it and in a few years time, usually just after the HP's paid off the car fails it's MOT and the silly game starts all over again!

[Doctle Odd]

Some of the older cars up to 2000 seem to work with a SMF maybe because they originally had it in an earlier version. The newer models hate it and it costs about six hundred yoyos if you do the work yourself. Allow 100000 miles and the cost is .006 per mile for a smooth drive. Value!