Low oil pressure non starting problems

[Rabid]

Hi, I registered here tonight as the wife's car has problems, 2008 vw passat, 2.0 turbo diesel, 120k.

going out the other day the car cut out dead, we both presumed diesel as it was low, although she states it was not expected to run out just yet, swears it has never done it before and she has run it lower a few times (I don't drive this car so can't comment)

we put a can in it, it started instanly and ran for 300 yards, coughing and spluttering like air in the system, i expected it to clear and run smooth but it died a few hundred yards later, so roadside I pulled the fuel line off (from the filter to pump) and fuel was flowing freely when engine turned over.
towed home as it was dark and limited tools, I replaced the fuel filter, and I again checked the fuel flow, loads of diesel coming through, and also fuel through the return line when turning engine over, the fuel from the return looked very dark when it was pumped into a bottle, but I also noticed on dash a warning saying 'oil pressure' 'stop'

so I checked oil, it was fine, changed the filter, it was bad.
started looking online, found bits about a 'sludge' problem, then a recall on certain models due to oil pump/shaft (believe this was on an earlier model).

she has now admitted she missed the last service even though it has been saying 'service required' on the dash for the last 6 months ! ! !

i am at a loss, is it fuel, why has this oil pressure warning turned up (after the car stopped) what can I do ?

i am reasonable with engines and mechanics, but not these modern ones with all this electricity.

on another note, I have been considering getting a fault reader, supposedly they are available that will do all diesel cars from 04 onwards that read faults and wipe them, rac fault reader ? Are they any good, best place to buy etc etc, I really need some advice here guys, all thoughts welcome, the vw dealer is a last resort, I would rather learn the problem myself and try to fix it.

thanks for reading, Rob.

[Jabba]

2 things really - missing service / oil change on these engines is bad, using the wrong oil is worse - the only reader you need for a VW is VAG-COM anything else just doesn't cut it. There are readers out there that will do the job but they are all £200+. The RAC will only give you the generic OBD codes and most times they aren't helpful - then you need to know which code caused what or you could easily lead yourself astray - assuming that there are any codes.

If you do run out of diesel in a 2.0 don't even think about trying to throw some diesel in and restart it or the high pressure diesel pump isn't going to like it - you need a laptop / programmer to prime the systems on the common rail engines.

Sadly these days a good quality fault reader is as mandatory as a socket set now.

[Rabid]

Thankyou Jabba, I thought it must have been diesel as the gauge was low, stated 50 miles left by all accounts, but she still swears it has run lower a good few times and is not convinced it was out of fuel, the amount of diesel coming through the fuel lines says to me it was good, the fact it spluttered once and died instantly, it was quick to cut out.

the symptoms after we started it again certainly felt like air in the fuel system, but it will not even try and fire after if stopped the second time.

so..I need to hook it up and prime the system then ? I need to look into this technology side of things, don't want to become a dinosaur.

A couple hundred on a good reader would not be out the question, provided it is good for more than just one car, hence the reviews on the rac reader sounded good they would do most cars, but it sounds a bit useless for proper investigation work.

she knows the service is not good, I have given her a dig about it, says she meant to get it done but time etc etc, I am a believer of regular filter/lube changes. If only she had mentioned it I would have at least done the oil and filter.

[Jabba]

The VW fuel indicators are pretty good, never tested ours to the limit though but I know somebody at work who did it constantly.

Check out the Autel MD802 - or even the lower ones in the autel range - but be careful some of them can only access 4 primary modules - this is becoming less and less useful, the MD802 can access 99%. They do have another one coming in the next few weeks that's supposed to be even better.

You really need the fault codes - seeing diesel discoloured isn't good - but there are half a dozen things can stop the car cold - there is an air flap that closes when you turn the car off, these are prone to stripping the gears and staying shut, if they do the car won't start. But need those codes.

[zollaf]

you can probably rule out fuel, i think its a red herring. so, you need a code read. forget a cheap obd reader, they only read obd codes and an obd code usually puts the eml on, so it won't find it. look on the vcds map and find a local with the computer to pop over to help, or get a garage out that has vcds or another high end computer, bosch kts , snapon modis etc... there are so many possibilities that without a code read you just won't know, unless of course it is fuel. i have know gauges to be inaccurate, but not when they have worked before.

[Rabid]

Thanks guys, you have confirmed my worst suspicion that without knowing codes I could be chasing anything and everything, I will look into getting a reader myself, but it sounds like its gonna cost a fair bit and may not be worth it, I will do some research now, thanks again.

wifey is adamant she has run it a lot lower than when it conked, and on quite a few occasions by the sounds of things ! Another thing I don't really like to do !

[zollaf]

if you want vcds then you can download it for free and buy a cable for your laptop from one of the genuine legitimate suppliers on here. that will cover most eventualities on any vag car. no other make of car has anything cheap thats any good other than obd readers, so for in depth codes you need a dealer level scanner costing £5k or so. many people are now trying to do their own diagnostics with a £10 reader and get stumped at the first hurdle as they can't find a code then don't want to pay 40 quid to a garage to diagnose it with their proper machine. of course, knowing the code is one thing, knowing what to do about it is another thing.

[Jabba]

As I said in the beginning for VAG products there is only one worth having VAG-COM, HEX-USB+CAN, the existence of this tool and how good it is is just one reason why I run 3 VAG products (besides the fact I like VAG products). The generic readers are just that - generic - they may or may not be of any value.

[stevegrass777]

I doubt it did run out of fuel but at the bottom of the fuel tank you sometimes pick up dirty fuel or water.
You said the fuel was dark,this could be contamination or oil from the tandem pump gasket.

[stevegrass777]

I would think when you changed the filter,because you didn't purge the air out with vcds the air is now in the fuel pump and will need to be purged with vcds,I don't know if you can still purge these just with the ignition on and off but It's not the same as doing it with vcds as this can be done 3 or 4 times in a row and the pump is on for quiet a bit

[RichardSEL]

Thanks guys, you have confirmed my worst suspicion that without knowing codes I could be chasing anything and everything, I will look into getting a reader myself, but it sounds like its gonna cost a fair bit and may not be worth it, I will do some research now, thanks again.
wifey is adamant she has run it a lot lower than when it conked, and on quite a few occasions by the sounds of things ! Another thing I don't really like to do !

Can't help with the diesel fault I'm afraid. The only one I went to was a Golf MkIV TDi that every time fired up then died. That was a gunked up pump in the end. I only did the VAG-COM bit.

Yes, get the proper tool. I barfed at paying out in 2009 when there wasn't a Ross Tech agent over here -- cost me £300+ But now you can get for $204 +UPS s&h +VAT for the Micro-CAN that will do yours and others across the VAG group too. No good spending out for a tool that does more than you need unless you're going to be doing other cars as well. For compatibility see:
Ross-Tech Store: VCDS (http://store.ross-tech.com/shop/cat/VCDS.html)

Last I looked Gendan were the cheapest £210 for UK distributor:
http://www.gendan.co.uk/product_VCMC.html

For finding someone local to you (I'm SE London) see:
VWAF User Location Map - VCDS - Google Maps (https://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?msid=209563024277134815192.0004c505be14b22419db e&msa=0&ll=56.231139,-2.779541&spn=3.493691,10.821533&iwloc=0004c505cfcb6158e0447)

Hope that helps?

[Rabid]

Thanks lads, so, going forward, I have tried using the vcds map and three people are listed locally, but I don't have enough posts to contact them yet, I have looked around briefly at the kit, prices ranging from a couple hundred to just over 3, my feeling, not extortionate, ok more than a garage read and clear on one occasion, but for the future may be worth having, getting the car to a garage will be a pita, getting someone out to it is also proving not so easy.

so I don't know anything about vcds, guessing there will be fake ones, Chinese copies and the like to avoid, Is a secondhand unit worth looking at or not etc etc.

the fuel going in looked right, fuel coming out went into a bottle so as not to spill on the car/road and looked a very dark blue, looked like oil mixed in with it, it has been mentioned about a gasket in the fuel pump. But also sounds like I need to purge the system as well, keeps coming back to getting vcds it would seem.

[Rabid]

What's the opinion on this please ?

VAG COM VCDS DEALER LEVEL DIAGNOSTICS TOOL TOUCH SCREEN | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAG-COM-VCDS-DEALER-LEVEL-DIAGNOSTICS-TOOL-TOUCH-SCREEN-/191227757269?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item2c861002d5)

[Jabba]

Fake cable if you ask me - and hacked software - a genuine cable will work with any version. I'd be asking why it will only work with the version on the CD and see what excuse you get.

[Rabid]

Fake cable if you ask me - and hacked software - a genuine cable will work with any version. I'd be asking why it will only work with the version on the CD and see what excuse you get.

That was the one thing I thought was a bit odd. I have asked the question, waiting for a reply.


Edit, the software is genuine, the cable is a 'high end replacement' whatever that is supposed to mean.

[RichardSEL]

Thanks lads, so, going forward, I have tried using the vcds map and three people are listed locally, but I don't have enough posts to contact them yet, I have looked around briefly at the kit, prices ranging from a couple hundred to just over 3, my feeling, not extortionate, ok more than a garage read and clear on one occasion, but for the future may be worth having, getting the car to a garage will be a pita, getting someone out to it is also proving not so easy.

A dealer VAS scan is minimum £68 -- some charge a whole hour £128 inc VAT, although they do rebate that if you have the work done there -- by adding in the scan time to the repair hours :zx11: Even if you move off VAG cars in the future, you'll still have a saleable item so there's £103 to come back minimum. Then there's all the other tweaks you can do for yourself: auto rain closing of windows, indicators or fogs as DRLs, auto lock - auto unlock, etc...


so I don't know anything about vcds, guessing there will be fake ones, Chinese copies and the like to avoid, Is a secondhand unit worth looking at or not etc etc.

Avoid the cheeepo Chinese clones. Went to one car that had been "adjusted" by one. Each of the codes were showing hi-ASCII characters (binary representations of characters such as µ¤]^óĦ etc) when I clicked on each code box. But read alright otherwise.
No wonder the car was acting strange. Some read alright, write alright, but don't save any modifications. Others are just readers. Some only work with the supplied VCDS Lite, a shareware version that needs registering soas to function (?) fully
Yes, if it's a genuine VCDS interface transferring over the registration costs $100. For a new one you get one years' free e-mail technical support (they're very good in the Ross-Tech office, telling me what to say to the dealer that was trying to rip me off during a warranty period fault which is why I got in the first place) Lifetime support in their own forum, and lifetime software auto-updates. See that they've extended their 'phone line support now to all registered users. OK, 'phoning the US is a bit of an expensive way to fix a fault but could be cheaper than letting a dealer loose at an unknown cost


the fuel going in looked right, fuel coming out went into a bottle so as not to spill on the car/road and looked a very dark blue, looked like oil mixed in with it, it has been mentioned about a gasket in the fuel pump. But also sounds like I need to purge the system as well, keeps coming back to getting vcds it would seem.

How's your oil level? Can you smell diesel in the engine oil? Not a diesel head here so can't go much further. But there's experts in here that can...

Good luck

[Rabid]

Thanks for the breakdown on these units, I am deff looking at getting one, I do like the vw's so the next car may even be one, and I am thinking about changing my van for a vw, so could be money well spent, and even if I change brands I still have the reader to sell.

i cannot smell diesel in the oil, and the level was perfect, it has used hardly a drop of oil in the last 18 moths of ownership (she does check oil and water regular) and is still on the same small can that came with the car, I doubt she has used a litre.

[RichardSEL]

Check with the vendor for what VW vans are compatible with which interface (dongle). Went to Sandown Park VW day a few weeks back. Knew there was a following for trendy Dubs, but the number of Transporters modified there was amazing! (not a B6 in sight!)
You may have to get a Hex-USB+CAN to work on both

[Rabid]

Well I bought a scanner, vcds tool from Ross tech, and after doing a scan it has found a fault with injector voltage, code p2146 'supply voltage for injector group a' -open circuit.

It would seem from research that it is the electrical part of the injector that fails, looses its insulation, and due to the high voltage the ecu shuts them all down, can anyone confirm this and is there a way to test each one to find out if it is faulty, they are pricey units and don't want to replace all four if only one is a problem.

as well as several other minor faults that have been repaired, interesting stuff this diagnostic kit, I would never have got to this point.

[Rabid]

Thankyou for all the replies, turns out it was an injector problem and the car has gone into the dealership for new injectors and loom all done at cost to VAG and no bill.