Just ordered a BiTdi - should I add a panoramic sunroof?

[nuty_bloke]

Hi all,

Decided to finally upgrade from my Audi A4 B8 Saloon 3.0TDI to the BiTdi A6 Black Edition (I felt that I needed more power if I was going to change my wheels)

I put my order in last week and looking at end of March delivery (can't wait.....)

But I omitted the Pano Sunroof - does anyone think its worth adding (but its certainly not cheap). Rest of the options selected are:

All Led Lights (I loved the Intelligent Lighting systems on Mrs Nutz C Class so had to have something similar on mine!!)
Rear Parking Camera (in case Mrs Nutz is driving)
Rear side airbags (got 2 kids so would have felt guilty not ordering this!!)
Front Heated Seats (can't believe this is not standard
Metallic Glacier White
Technology Pack (8" is better than 6")
Sports Differential (for the little boy in me)
Storage Pack (Another one for the kids)
75 Litre tank (this should save me money in the long run)
Folding/Heater mirrors (should be standard)

But should I have added Pano Sunroof?????? Not even sure I can amend now but would like to hear your views.

Thanks
Nutz

[Guest 2]

Do you have the need for a sunroof?

I've had bad experiences with sunroofs in the past and wouldn't have another car with one fitted again ever.

[nuty_bloke]

Do you have the need for a sunroof?

I've had bad experiences with sunroofs in the past and wouldn't have another car with one fitted again ever.

Hi Chris- No real need for a sunroof I suppose....so perhaps not missing out..

[belly buster]

Don't get Wuffles started! Not many sunroof owners here and some troubles reported. Might be better saving your money or getting a different option.

[Guest 2]

Spend the extra £35 on LED headlights.

[EssexGonzo]

How tall are you? I tried a C7 avant with a pan roof the other day and my (not very substantial) hair brushed the roof. I'm 6'2".

While I'm here......aren't the mirrors heated as standard albeit not folding?

[SamF]

I ordered mine last week, Deffo opt for the LED headlights over the pano roof

Mirrors are electric and heated as standard, not folding. £235 extra for folding.
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[SamF]

What about the lighting pack, sorry for the double, ipad won't let me delete!

[belly buster]

Another vote for lighting pack.

Maybe go for Tech Pack Advanced or HUD instead of the sunroof.

[ukgroucho]

Thumbs down on the pano roof rom me also... wife had an A2 with the full open sky glass roof and over the time that we owned the car (8 years) it cost a couple of grand and some heartache with squeaks and leaks.

I'm not a fan of sunroofs anymore and particularly not the extended ones that are a glass ceiling.

Send the money on something else.

[Wuffles]

Hi.

Pros
Height isn't an issue, I'm 6'2" and provided you have the seat lowered you won't notice any difference.
Does make the inside of the car brighter inside and less claustrophobic feeling - well, in comparison to one without it fitted anyway.
Could make the vehicle more saleable provided no-one has ever considered the cons below.
Quite nice when all's fine and you're somewhere sunny.

Cons
It's not as Panoramic as other brands of car. We couldn't find a demonstrator with it fitted and went from the pictures in the brochure.
It will leak someday, that's a given.
The motor or electronics will go wrong someday, that's also a given.
It's an expensive option.
You are forced to pay extra for servicing it, which is fair enough I suppose, but it's a very expensive service for a pot of grease and a pokey finger.

I think I was quite balanced there, considering our car with a sunroof is in for repair today.

[Olio]

How does a 75 litres tank save money?

[SamF]

I looked at the 75 and to be honest the only thing it really offers is the ability to fill up (slightly) less frequently. but the cost of the larger tank is equivalent to a tank of fuel in the first place.....

[Whippy53]

I use it to drive to the house on s/w France, can do the whole trip without filling up on the motorways.

[fernar]

I had a pano sun roof on my one of my previous cars - an Merc E -class. It even had two solar panels to power the fan to keep the car vented when it parked.

However just as on the Audi it was expensive - and frankly I didnt use it too many times - in the summer, it was shut to allow the aircon to work more efficiently, in the winter I didnt use it anyway apart from the odd time when it was a sunny day and I retracted the blinds to get a bit of sun in the car.

I would suggest as other already have to use the money for other options

[nuty_bloke]

How tall are you? I tried a C7 avant with a pan roof the other day and my (not very substantial) hair brushed the roof. I'm 6'2".

While I'm here......aren't the mirrors heated as standard albeit not folding?

Hi - I'm 5'9 so not much chance of my hair brushing the roof!!

And yes, your right - mirrors standard but added the folding as an option. Tried getting the auto dimming too but apparently need the comfort pack for that :-(

[nuty_bloke]

What about the lighting pack, sorry for the double, ipad won't let me delete!

Yeah added that now - thanks for pointing it out!!

[nuty_bloke]

Another vote for lighting pack.

Maybe go for Tech Pack Advanced or HUD instead of the sunroof.

Was thinking the tech pack advanced but it was almost £2k more than std tech pack and just couldn't justify it...but would have been nice. I'm a bit of a geek like that!!

[nuty_bloke]

Hi.

Pros
Height isn't an issue, I'm 6'2" and provided you have the seat lowered you won't notice any difference.
Does make the inside of the car brighter inside and less claustrophobic feeling - well, in comparison to one without it fitted anyway.
Could make the vehicle more saleable provided no-one has ever considered the cons below.
Quite nice when all's fine and you're somewhere sunny.

Cons
It's not as Panoramic as other brands of car. We couldn't find a demonstrator with it fitted and went from the pictures in the brochure.
It will leak someday, that's a given.
The motor or electronics will go wrong someday, that's also a given.
It's an expensive option.
You are forced to pay extra for servicing it, which is fair enough I suppose, but it's a very expensive service for a pot of grease and a pokey finger.

I think I was quite balanced there, considering our car with a sunroof is in for repair today.


Cheers Wuffles - I don't like the idea of it being expensive to maintain- I intend to keep the car for a few years so can't be doing with the expense. Thanks for the pros and cons!!

[nuty_bloke]

How does a 75 litres tank save money?

I believe the std fuel tank is 65 Litres, so having an extra 15% capacity will help to reduce the number of trips to the petrol station (I have to use certain types of petrol stations so my company saves money!! - but they can be out of the way). So in theory should pay back quite quickly not to mention the time saved.

[nuty_bloke]

Hi All , thanks for all the advice - having read all the advice I have decided against the sunroof as :

1. Don't really need it
2. Expensive to maintain
3. Initial cost
4. Could put off buyers when coming to sell.

Thanks all

[SamF]

Was thinking the tech pack advanced but it was almost £2k more than std tech pack and just couldn't justify it...but would have been nice. I'm a bit of a geek like that!!

Hi Mate, IMO the Advanced Tech Pack is definitely not worth the extra £2k, all you get extra is:
The silly auto distance thingy for the Cruise Control "ACC" with Stop&Go function - WHY!
Audi side assist including pre-sense rear - that's what your mirrors are for......
Audi active lane assist – helps the driver to stay in lane with gentle steering impulses for greater safety and convenience - apparently is very unnerving as it gives a slight 'twitch' even if you actually want to change lanes!

You have made a wise choice, tame the inner geek and add the ambient lighting pack for more fun times
I would say one option which is a deffo upgrade is the Deluxe 4 zone Climate Control - the digital LED display finishes of the dash really nicely - perfect for the geek in us all :biglaugh:

[SGH1]

Interestingly, and contrary to many on here, i have the LED ambient lighting, and can't say it's super special.... perhaps better than not, but certainly not a big plus. I do fancy the HUD and mildly regret not getting the electric seating - seems silly on a premium car not to be standard, and while I really don't need to adjust the seats more than once every few months if my wife has used it, I can never get exactly back to where it was. I'm not sure I find having the colour display in my instrument panel a huge bonus, as I always have it on digital speedometer, but it is pretty. Never used electric seats (although my wife does) or the auto parking thing, so wasted on me, but probably quite useful for many. Not sure you can make huge errors on spec with the BE, and if you're happy to spend, why not! Otherwise, you'll be grinning at every overtake opportunity.

[Sauron]

Hi Mate, IMO the Advanced Tech Pack is definitely not worth the extra £2k, all you get extra is:
The silly auto distance thingy for the Cruise Control "ACC" with Stop&Go function - WHY!
Audi side assist including pre-sense rear - that's what your mirrors are for......
Audi active lane assist – helps the driver to stay in lane with gentle steering impulses for greater safety and convenience - apparently is very unnerving as it gives a slight 'twitch' even if you actually want to change lanes!

You have made a wise choice, tame the inner geek and add the ambient lighting pack for more fun times
I would say one option which is a deffo upgrade is the Deluxe 4 zone Climate Control - the digital LED display finishes of the dash really nicely - perfect for the geek in us all :biglaugh:

As always, perspective and opinion is a personal thing and I offer mine for what it's worth but perhaps a different view from above:
As someone with the 'silly auto distance thingy' I find it quite useful with one exception covered below. Unlike traditional cruise it can be used in traffic where speeds are varying and even when no speed selected it continues to monitor closing rates to other vehicles and provides a visual (and I believe audio but not heard yet) warning of potential collisions - perhaps useful against 'crash for cash' rouges who disconnect brake lights? For balance, the bit I'm not so keen on is when other cars overtake and pull in just ahead of you, the system brakes to reset the safe distance where a traditional cruise would just maintain speed and a human would just let the gap build of its own accord.


In regard to side assist, yes that is what mirrors are for and indeed looking over your shoulder, however, when I first started driving a speedo, mirrors and the road ahead was pretty much all we had to look at and the only distraction was the radio/ cassette player. In the technologically advanced cars we now drive I would argue that we now have significantly more distractions. As such the system provides a useful safety feature. I'm not saying systems such as this should be totally relied upon and in over 30 years of driving I have never had an accident from such a condition; equally I cannot claim to have never caused another vehicle to take avoiding action due to inappropriate attempted lane changes. I have found the system useful, a dim flash when it senses vehicles and a bright one if you indicate towards the approaching vehicle.


Lane assist I'm still getting used to but for clarity it will only 'twitch' even if you meant to change lanes if you don't indicate, which for the most times should be the case to inform other road users. Where I have found it catches me out is when I go to take a more 'racing line' on roads with gentle bends where you can see it's clear ahead and yes it does twitch slightly but you can steer though it and the level of intervention can be adjusted through the MMI.


So overall I like the package, particularly in combination with the HUD, yes it has some elements that need adjusting to but overall I think it improves safety. I remember when I first started using the internet, 5600bps and text only pages took for ever to download and I though this will never catch on. Now we have sites such as this forum which are commonplace. Tech is always moving on and people will continue to choose whether or not to embrace it at any given time; regarding the tech pack I like it and hope this post has provided a different perspective, at the end of the day you pays your money and takes your choice.


Regarding 4 zone climate + 1 and The HUD is also great.

[SamF]

Superb perspective, and yes, maybe my comments were a little short and based on my opinion- I didn't think about the crash for cash element.... A very valid point.

With regards to the lane assit, it may have been that the setting was turned up to 'high' as it did feel twitchy, especially, as you said, when we take a more selective line on clear roads. ;)

I really like the HUD, it just felt like the finish let it down, almost an after-thought. You have a nice flowing dash, smooth lines and then they cut a rectangular block out in front of the driver to fit it.

[Sauron]

V3SSF

I know what you mean regarding the lane assist and I think it has better utility on the motorway than say on more spirited drives, where your more 'selective line' is taken, but I'm am getting used to it and when to use and when not to use.

I agree with your comments regarding the integration of the HUD and its somewhat stuck on appearance. However, in terms of the presentation of the information I think it's excellent as it never distracts but I find all the key info is there without having to take your eyes off the road.

[Gmonster]

A couple of minor suggestions from me; Advanced Key: Brings; one touch door locking/unlocking (sensors on door handles), remote boot unlocking (by footsweep under bumper) and storage of key car settings on Keys (different car control/mmi settings for different drivers)... Also; Glove Box CD Player (do you have CD collection? as opposed to/or in addition to MP3's etc) Enjoy the car when it comes...

[pumpsmynads]

Audi active lane assist – helps the driver to stay in lane with gentle steering impulses for greater safety and convenience - apparently is very unnerving as it gives a slight 'twitch' even if you actually want to change lanes!


If you have a friend who says it twitches even if they want to change lanes then they are one of those, ahem, people who doesn't use their indicators correctly on the motorway. :-)

[Wuffles]

If you have a friend who says it twitches even if they want to change lanes then they are one of those, ahem, people who doesn't use their indicators correctly on the motorway. :-)

I like to think it was the p̶a̶r̶a̶s̶i̶t̶e̶ salesperson at the dealership who told him that.

[Lukenkarl]

Hi all,

Decided to finally upgrade from my Audi A4 B8 Saloon 3.0TDI to the BiTdi A6 Black Edition (I felt that I needed more power if I was going to change my wheels)

I put my order in last week and looking at end of March delivery (can't wait.....)

But I omitted the Pano Sunroof - does anyone think its worth adding (but its certainly not cheap). Rest of the options selected are:

All Led Lights (I loved the Intelligent Lighting systems on Mrs Nutz C Class so had to have something similar on mine!!)
Rear Parking Camera (in case Mrs Nutz is driving)
Rear side airbags (got 2 kids so would have felt guilty not ordering this!!)
Front Heated Seats (can't believe this is not standard
Metallic Glacier White
Technology Pack (8" is better than 6")
Sports Differential (for the little boy in me)
Storage Pack (Another one for the kids)
75 Litre tank (this should save me money in the long run)
Folding/Heater mirrors (should be standard)

But should I have added Pano Sunroof?????? Not even sure I can amend now but would like to hear your views.

Thanks
NutzYes get the roof...you can watch the rain come down too

[SamF]

I like to think it was the p̶a̶r̶a̶s̶i̶t̶e̶ salesperson at the dealership who told him that.

Nail and head..... But not the one who I'm buying through, that didn't even come up in conversation as I had already set the spec I wanted and they didn't push me for more.


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[Wuffles]

Nail and head..... But not the one who I'm buying through, that didn't even come up in conversation as I had already set the spec I wanted and they didn't push me for more.


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And you can well imagine the conversation had you been a prospective push for that option. Brilliant.

[nuty_bloke]

Hi Mate, IMO the Advanced Tech Pack is definitely not worth the extra £2k, all you get extra is:
The silly auto distance thingy for the Cruise Control "ACC" with Stop&Go function - WHY!
Audi side assist including pre-sense rear - that's what your mirrors are for......
Audi active lane assist – helps the driver to stay in lane with gentle steering impulses for greater safety and convenience - apparently is very unnerving as it gives a slight 'twitch' even if you actually want to change lanes!

You have made a wise choice, tame the inner geek and add the ambient lighting pack for more fun times
I would say one option which is a deffo upgrade is the Deluxe 4 zone Climate Control - the digital LED display finishes of the dash really nicely - perfect for the geek in us all :biglaugh:

Hi V3SSF,

Yeah I must admit, the deluxe 4 zone looks very good (I thought the digital display was standard!) going to have a conversation with my dealer!!

[nuty_bloke]

A couple of minor suggestions from me; Advanced Key: Brings; one touch door locking/unlocking (sensors on door handles), remote boot unlocking (by footsweep under bumper) and storage of key car settings on Keys (different car control/mmi settings for different drivers)... Also; Glove Box CD Player (do you have CD collection? as opposed to/or in addition to MP3's etc) Enjoy the car when it comes...

Cheers Gmonster - yeah can't wait for the new wheels!! Expected end of March - counting the days...

[ukgroucho]

Hi V3SSF,

Yeah I must admit, the deluxe 4 zone looks very good (I thought the digital display was standard!) going to have a conversation with my dealer!!

And if you have heated front seats and decide to go for the 4 zone climate then you MUST get the heated seats all round... it's a really low cost increment. I can't remember the exact cost but heated front are (say) £600, you can only have heated rears if you do the 4 zone climate and then it's something like £160 if i recall. I suspect it may be cos they add extra wiring loom to the rear of the centre console for the 4 zone and adding controls for heated seats is 'easy'.

Makes rear seat passengers happy and is another check box / differentiator for resale.

[belly buster]

I like the way we do our best to spend other people's money :D :D

[SamF]

Ha ha!

I just checked and I did select front and rear heated seats with my order. Panic over :D

4 zone climate £620
Heated front and rear £440



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[nuty_bloke]

And if you have heated front seats and decide to go for the 4 zone climate then you MUST get the heated seats all round... it's a really low cost increment. I can't remember the exact cost but heated front are (say) £600, you can only have heated rears if you do the 4 zone climate and then it's something like £160 if i recall. I suspect it may be cos they add extra wiring loom to the rear of the centre console for the 4 zone and adding controls for heated seats is 'easy'.

Makes rear seat passengers happy and is another check box / differentiator for resale.

I hear ya - unfortunately I rang the dealership and was informed that my production order has already been confirmed!! if I changed my order now it would push my delivery back at least 1 month!! so kept the same spec.

But a lesson to be learned....do more research before ordering a car....and always ask for advice from the forum first!!!

[nuty_bloke]

Yes get the roof...you can watch the rain come down too

lol - yeah especially in Manchester

[Pausten]

I didn't have one, as on the Q5s I owned, I felt they made it slightly noisier at motorway/AutoRoute speeds.
However, for the back seat passengers it makes it much less claustrophobic.
(In France at least), they are easier to sell second-hand with.
Wandering off-thread, I would NOT buy a car without Adaptive Cruise Control anymore.
Comments were made on the media that the Sheppey bridge accident would not have happened if the cars had been equipped with "Advance Braking Guard"
which I believe is part of the package.
One of the contributors talks about Lane Assist twitching the wheel.
It is best turned off on small roads & towns.
On motorways it does actually steer the car.
If you leave it to do so for more than 20S you get a beep & message "I'm not here to do all the work! - Put your hands back on the wheel!"
Its an interesting party piece with passengers.

[Sauron]

Wandering off-thread, I would NOT buy a car without Adaptive Cruise Control anymore.
Comments were made on the media that the Sheppey bridge accident would not have happened if the cars had been equipped with "Advance Braking Guard" which I believe is part of the package.


Of course to prevent an accident all cars would have to be suitably equipped and I dare say driving within the limits of system; not sure what those would be but driving at 70mph in 20 metre visibility may be outside the systems capability. However Pausten make a good point regarding the additional utility of ACC when driving in reduced visibility. Additionally, while it will not be able to prevent you being rear ended by the car behind that fails to stop the pre-sense rear should also help minimise any injury. Finally, should the worst happen, come insurance claim time if you have stopped and the car behind didn't I know where blame will lie.

[SamF]

Do you think in the near future, if not already, the argument will come from insurance companies and solicitors when someone is driving like a plum and crashes and possible takes another life, it couldn't possibly be their fault because the car would have prevented it......

Not trying to be a a muppet here, but the systems are there to assist not take control.

I think a comment earlier sums up a nice argument for blame culture.
You have ACC, everyone is moving along nicely at speed. Some plum cuts in a metre in front of you because they are going to miss the junction, your system slams the brakes on in an attempt to set the distance correctly and the poor sod not expecting it ends up in your boot. Who's to blame? The plum head who cut in obviously, but he's long gone.


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[Sauron]

I agree that the systems are there to assist rather than take over, however, for clarity the scenario I mentioned previously when cars pull in front of you the system does brake but my experience to date is this is an application of brakes rather than the system 'slamming on the brakes'.

Now I haven't experienced the case you describe with a nugget cutting across my nose to make a junction at such close range, however, experience of that in cars without ACC have resulted in me applying the brakes heavily anyway, accompanied by judicious use of the horn. In such a scenario despite the fact that any ensuing result was the result of the aforementioned idiot, we are all still responsible for maintaining a safe distance from the vehicle ahead to enable us to stop safely. What about a scenario where the Porsche with ceramic brakes aggressively from 70 mph to avoid an accident, unfortunately the loaded up Fiat Multipla behind can't match the breaking performance and has not left sufficient distance to stop; end result Fiat driver responsible. I and I'm sure others here have adjusted there stopping distance to cater for the vehicle behind getting too large in the rear view mirror!

[Greyanglia]

I'm a bit late responding as I have been away for a few days but I have the panoramic sunroof and the LED lights on the Allroad which I have had for about three months.

So far so good with the pan roof and i like the extra light in an otherwise dark, sombre cabin with the black interior.

However as I currently drive to and from work in the dark which includes a lot of unlit/poorly lit roads I must say I am taken by the LED light package. However, If I had bought the car in the spring I may have a different set of priorities given less need for the lights.


The only extra I keep moaning about is the powered tailgate which I know is now standard but mine missed by a couple weeks! As it is impossible to keep the car clean for more than five minutes in all this rain I am fed up with mucky hands each time I open it!

[ukgroucho]

How did you miss the powered tailgate if you've only had the car 3 months?.... unless you bought used.

My allroad is 7 months old and has powered tailgate, admittedly it was one of the first MY14s.

[Greyanglia]

I got an ex demo!

Great spec though with 19" 10 spokes, pan roof, LED headlights, phantom black with full paint finish, BOSE, Tech pack, dynamic steering etc etc.

But no bloody powered tailgate! (or folding door mirrors)

[Pausten]

I'd take money OFF for 19" wheels - only good for posing.
If you are EVER going to drive on French roads 18" are better!

[Pausten]

Hey! - I've got a 13 allroad, & the powered tailgate DOES NOT open if I wave my foot underneath,
What am I doing wrong?

[fest0r]

I had a look into this when specing my A6 and from what I can see the Avant and allroad only comes with key fob or door panel power operation. To get the hands free option you need to go for Advanced Key (PGB/4F2). It will be a nice surprise if it’s included as standard though :)

[nuty_bloke]

I'd take money OFF for 19" wheels - only good for posing.
If you are EVER going to drive on French roads 18" are better!

Yeh ordered black edition so comes with 20" - not looking forward to the ride quality!

[nuty_bloke]

Do you think in the near future, if not already, the argument will come from insurance companies and solicitors when someone is driving like a plum and crashes and possible takes another life, it couldn't possibly be their fault because the car would have prevented it......

Not trying to be a a muppet here, but the systems are there to assist not take control.

I think a comment earlier sums up a nice argument for blame culture.
You have ACC, everyone is moving along nicely at speed. Some plum cuts in a metre in front of you because they are going to miss the junction, your system slams the brakes on in an attempt to set the distance correctly and the poor sod not expecting it ends up in your boot. Who's to blame? The plum head who cut in obviously, but he's long gone.


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personally I believe that the systems def have their place but at the moment it's just too expensive. I look forward to the day when these types of functions become standard on all vehicles. But they should be there to assist only - not drive the car for you.

These types of functions could end up being as useful as seat belts and ABS - I'm sure there was a time when even these weren't standard!

[nuty_bloke]

Just received my BiTdi yesterday (without sunroof)....and I love it!!! I feel like a little kid!!

First thoughts are

Feels really solid - especially around corners
Ride not as bad as I expected considering the 20" Rotors
BOSE doesn't feel as good as the B&O in previous A4
Don't like the fact you cannot select the audi drive select on the Dashboard (have to go thru MMI)
Very fast!!
All Led lights look amazing


But loving it so far and can't wait to explore more!!!

[SamF]

No good without pics of the new toy!

Congrats!


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[nuty_bloke]

No good without pics of the new toy!

Congrats!


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Thanks SamF. Totally agree - will put some pics up tomorrow.

[nuty_bloke]

as promised - pictures!!

[Guest 2]

Looks well but take some wider shots! :p

[nuty_bloke]

Looks well but take some wider shots! :p


Lol'm trying..is there a file upload limit?

[Guest 2]

Upload them to photobucket, far easier.

[SamF]

Damn that's nice! More pics please! Extremely envious :D


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[nuty_bloke]

See more pics below....hopefully this works this time!!

Library Slideshow by nuty_bloke | Photobucket (http://s1274.photobucket.com/user/nuty_bloke/slideshow/)

[nuty_bloke]

Damn that's nice! More pics please! Extremely envious :D


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Cheers SamF. I have posted a link to a slideshow after Chris's advice!!

[SamF]

Does anyone know if there is any reason the C7 Avant doesn't come with fog lights with the All LED lights?
I haven't seen any and this was a question the missus asked me the other day and I couldn't figure it out!

[Wuffles]

Think it's the same as the Bi Xenons, it has the ability to refocus the light within the main lighting compartment to make something more "foggy" and therefore doesn't need separate lights.

Technical enough for you?

[Greyanglia]

Hi Sam,

I think you'll find that if you have the full LED lights there are fog lamp switches which when depressed adjust the myriad of LED's into 'fog' mode. I have them and had to get my son to flick the switch to confirm that there was a difference.

[SamF]

Spot on mate, thanks!


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[Wuffles]

Hi Sam,

I think you'll find that if you have the full LED lights there are fog lamp switches which when depressed adjust the myriad of LED's into 'fog' mode. I have them and had to get my son to flick the switch to confirm that there was a difference.

Bit too technical to my mind, no vague words enclosed in quotes at all!

[SamF]

Lol, that's perfect as it is. You chaps saved me from a very awkward moment, the missus nearly spotted a sliver of weakness in my 'man-ness' of all things technical! Now I have a solid answer and enough technical terms, 'foggy' being one of them, to shut her up!

Cheers!


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