Supermarket Diesel v's Brand Name Diesel

[JannerAudi]

A subject that has probably been discussed before but I would be interested in any thoughts or experience of supermarket diesel versus the brand names such as BP, Esso etc.

Also does anyone know of any in depth tests carried out on supermarket diesel v's branded diesel.

Thanks,
Janner

[Tripletrouble]

My friend Phil is a tanker driver. He hauls fuel from the same nozzles that go to Tesco, Asda etc as the fuel that goes to Texaco, Shell etc.
The only exception is the"Super" brands that you pay extra for.

[sbt]

hi all . now i aint no expert on this but there is one thing i do know . i once had to use supermarket diesel in my 1.9 tdi a4 and the engine sounded similar to throwing a bag of spanners down a very steep hill . so now i use shell diesel and my engine sounds lovely if thats possible for a 1.9 tdi . but you know what i mean

[man le-mans]

So why was it a few years back that only tesco suffered with water in the fuel and tescos had to pay out thousands for engine damages in hundreds of cars

[Trekmeister]

Every now and then a report is submitted by a reader to my local free paper complaining of contaminated fuel from my local Tesco. The store denies this stating if that were the case everybody who used their fuel would suffer the same fate. Those who've reported state they've filled up and within miles their cars have died. Garage reports state contaminated fuel. As a result local taxi drivers refuse to buy their fuel. I use shell and never use supermarket fuel.

[man le-mans]

When this happen few years back I knew 4 people who's cars had died after the fill up all at the same time. I think they had petrol cars but I could be wrong on that. I use BP, Esso, or sainsburys, tesco depends where I am at the time

[ukgroucho]

And I use the premium stuff.. BP Ultimate for the most but not harm in mixing it up with other premium brands occasionally (actually it is good practice to do this as they have different additives and clean in different ways so a regular BP user should throw a tank of Shell or whatever premium fuel through occasionally).

sbt.. when I had an A4 1.9 Tdi (on a P plate) I mistakenly filled it with BP Ultimate once - I realised when I paid... on the subsequent 100 mile motorway jaunt I could not believe how quiet and nicely it was running and then put 2 and 2 together. Whether it actually improves performance or economy I don't know but I do know that that 4 pot engine ran much nicer on it. I've used it ever since although on 6 cylinder 3.0 Tdis

[diecastsink]

As you may have noticed, 4G 3.0 TDI engine code CDUC is a bit noisy when stopping the engine, like said throwing a bagful of drop-forget spanners onto a garage corner. Neste introduced Pro Diesel some time ago, and even after one tank the engine runs smoother, and stopping is not so noisy. I did not noticed any fuel saving as they officially tested and reported, the weather conditions are a bit different here and we have to use at least winter (down to -32'C) or arctic (-37'C) quality fuel. So in addition of palm tree oil we had wallnut cyrup oil! Also there were significant difference in aux heater operation (even local heater dealer denies). It's all about the additives what the brands are using, but the effect is only noticed when you change the supplier, or if they change additives. In a long term, the noticeable effect disappears into the white noise. In UK, you of course have more suppliers so there certainly are more variation.

[starsky365]

I had this conversation with a petrol station owner when I filled with BP as I'd put morrisons diesel into my old C6 and very nearly took it to Audi as I thought there was something wrong with it, no power, noisy etc

What I was told was.........

1. The base fuel for supermarkets is sourced from the eastern block where it is not as pure anyway and has a higher biofuel percentage

2. The tanker driver swipes a card through the machine on the tanker at each delivery point this ensures that the correct mix of base fuel and additives/lubricants are mixed from the different compartments in the tanker at the point of delivery.

3. the supermarkets don't have any of the extra cleaners/lubricants dispensed

This of course could be total crap; I'm only repeating what I was told


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[Passatier3]

And I use the premium stuff.. BP Ultimate for the most but not harm in mixing it up with other premium brands occasionally (actually it is good practice to do this as they have different additives and clean in different ways so a regular BP user should throw a tank of Shell or whatever premium fuel through occasionally).

sbt.. when I had an A4 1.9 Tdi (on a P plate) I mistakenly filled it with BP Ultimate once - I realised when I paid... on the subsequent 100 mile motorway jaunt I could not believe how quiet and nicely it was running and then put 2 and 2 together. Whether it actually improves performance or economy I don't know but I do know that that 4 pot engine ran much nicer on it. I've used it ever since although on 6 cylinder 3.0 Tdis

Same here.

[razor77]

Same here.

There is a previous thread talking about fuel on here, more focused on the super variants vs standard. from a MPG perspective I can;t say I have noticed much difference on the A6, but then I only put small amounts of non super in when I am out of range of a Shell.

What I can tell you, the A1 has a remarkable difference, I have a 3-5mpg improvement when using the Shell Ultimate fuel. The A1 does mostly the same journeys each week at the sametime, and the difference is noted over two consecutive fills of the same fuel, either Morrisons or Shell Ultimate. It's very subjective, but I am convinced the car feels smoother, although I feel this could be a case of emperor's clothes.

[wja96]

I had this conversation with a petrol station owner when I filled with BP as I'd put morrisons diesel into my old C6 and very nearly took it to Audi as I thought there was something wrong with it, no power, noisy etc

What I was told was.........

1. The base fuel for supermarkets is sourced from the eastern block where it is not as pure anyway and has a higher biofuel percentage

2. The tanker driver swipes a card through the machine on the tanker at each delivery point this ensures that the correct mix of base fuel and additives/lubricants are mixed from the different compartments in the tanker at the point of delivery.

3. the supermarkets don't have any of the extra cleaners/lubricants dispensed

This of course could be total crap; I'm only repeating what I was told


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I'm afraid 99% of that is crap. All fuel in the UK comes from the same production, and the same terminals. It has to meet a minimum specification to be called petrol or diesel. The additive packs are indeed added by the drivers and the supermarket fuels are very similar in terms of additives to the branded fuels.

The higher RON petrols have to meet the respective standards, so the basic 99 RON from Tesco is the same as 99 RON from Shell or anyone else. The brand retailers may well have extra additives, but it's very unlikely these give anything other than a placebo effect to the driver.

[MarkTM]

Apart from a couple of tankfuls of the shell wallet buster (or whatever they're calling their current superfuel) I've only filled my C6 up with Tesco/Morrisons/Sainsburies with fuel voucher, and nearly always with a dose of Millers Ecomax. Means my fuel never cost more than £1.28ppl. In one case just .87ppl Even taking the cost of the Millers into account I reckon I've saved close to £300 since purchase....plus have gotten 920 miles out of a tank (brim test) concluded that DIS is 3.5% optimistic.

[Olio]

I'm using premium diesel, from Shell and BP, and it seems the engine is getting better these days (only got to 3k miles) and it looks like I could get 500 miles out of the current tank (if I empty it, which I won't). Bearing in mind there are lots of small work commutes in that, it's not too bad.

At what stage / mileage (if any) is it worth putting some Millers or equivalent?

[MarkTM]

I'd think if you're already using premium fuel it's not worth it, after all it's just an additive, you could try and can get a 3 treatment bottle for around £10 of ebay and £14 at Halfords. People have reported differences on new and old engines, so when you add doesn't really matter. The only additive I've sen that's recommended by Honest John.

Halfords | Millers Diesel Power Ecomax 500ml (http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&productId=370465&catalogId=10151)

Some good reviews too (4.7 out of 5) spot mine!

[Wuffles]

I'd think if you're already using premium fuel it's not worth it, after all it's just an additive, you could try and can get a 3 treatment bottle for around £10 of ebay and £14 at Halfords. People have reported differences on new and old engines, so when you add doesn't really matter. The only additive I've sen that's recommended by Honest John.

Halfords | Millers Diesel Power Ecomax 500ml (http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&productId=370465&catalogId=10151)

Some good reviews too (4.7 out of 5) spot mine!

Just grabbed a couple for the van Mark, from eBay too, so I don't even have to negotiate the new and (un)improved car parking nightmare at Halfords.

[Plgaler]

I drive just about 400 miles per week in two journeys, and I can say that I having previously been using my local Jet diesel, switching to Shell standard is making a difference. I was previously getting about 42mpg if I drove quickly, and about 45mpg if not. Now I can definitely get closer to 50mpg.

Even fuel economy aside, it is a different car, quieter and a little more lively.

The proper Shell v-Power stuff doesn't get it any closer to the claimed mpg than the Shell standard, so I'm just sticking with standard - price is close enough to supermarket prices depending on where you can fill up, so it's a no brainer for me.

[glammr]

I'm afraid 99% of that is crap. All fuel in the UK comes from the same production, and the same terminals. It has to meet a minimum specification to be called petrol or diesel. The additive packs are indeed added by the drivers and the supermarket fuels are very similar in terms of additives to the branded fuels.The higher RON petrols have to meet the respective standards, so the basic 99 RON from Tesco is the same as 99 RON from Shell or anyone else. The brand retailers may well have extra additives, but it's very unlikely these give anything other than a placebo effect to the driver.THought i would add my opinion...well facts actually!I worked for many years as a chemist in an independant laboratory and we used to do trials called "Round Robins" This involed gallons of "unidentified to us" samples from all over the country with the results showing:Distillation values including initial and final boiling points being above standard with branded samplesResidues and carbon deposits / Non volitile residues being greater with supermarket brandsMON RONS more stable with brandedReid vapour pressures higher with brandedAll fuel is a base unit until the addition of branded additives etc..The reason why supermarkets sell cheaper is they are less stable hence the storage tanks are smaller needing a higher turnover. I have a 3.0 TDI lemans and would NEVER dream of filling with supermarket fuels. And as i work on an oil rig i hope my upstream/downstream experience does count :-)Hope this helps!

[wja96]

I'm afraid 99% of that is crap. All fuel in the UK comes from the same production, and the same terminals. It has to meet a minimum specification to be called petrol or diesel. The additive packs are indeed added by the drivers and the supermarket fuels are very similar in terms of additives to the branded fuels.

The higher RON petrols have to meet the respective standards, so the basic 99 RON from Tesco is the same as 99 RON from Shell or anyone else. The brand retailers may well have extra additives, but it's very unlikely these give anything other than a placebo effect to the driver.


THought i would add my opinion...well facts actually!I worked for many years as a chemist in an independant laboratory and we used to do trials called "Round Robins" This involed gallons of "unidentified to us" samples from all over the country with the results showing:Distillation values including initial and final boiling points being above standard with branded samplesResidues and carbon deposits / Non volitile residues being greater with supermarket brandsMON RONS more stable with brandedReid vapour pressures higher with brandedAll fuel is a base unit until the addition of branded additives etc..The reason why supermarkets sell cheaper is they are less stable hence the storage tanks are smaller needing a higher turnover. I have a 3.0 TDI lemans and would NEVER dream of filling with supermarket fuels. And as i work on an oil rig i hope my upstream/downstream experience does count :-)Hope this helps!

OK, can we be clear here please?

You are stating that supermarket fuel is cheaper because it is less stable than branded fuel.

Further, you are stating that supermarket filling stations have smaller fuel tanks than branded retailers because they have to? If they didn't turn it over really fast it will go off or evaporate?

The issue I have with those statements is that, as far as I'm aware all diesel sold in the UK is EN590 standard. That's a standard. Trading Standards dip the tanks of fuel retailers regularly and the refinery laboratories test and certify batches of fuel as being to specification. As someone who has worked as a chemist, can you confirm that please?

I know wikipedia is a bit lame, but EN 590 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EN_590) appears to state that all EU diesel has to be a certain minimum standard.

51 Cetane. That's what the car manufacturers tune the cars to run on.

It is my understanding that all diesel fuel supplied in the UK comes from the same terminals. This is why when the Harlow depot had it's explosion incident all fuel was affected.

Indeed, it is my understanding that all fuel is exactly the same until it rolls up at the retailer where a fuel pack is added by the driver. This allows tankers to make drops at multiple retailers with everyone getting what they want. Tesco's get the Tesco additive pack, J Sainsbury's get the JS pack, ASDA gets the ASDA pack. The tankers can be dedicated to a single retailer or they can be plain. The supermarket branded tankers are actually operated by the same hauliers who transport the branded diesel, it's just that they paint the truck as a service to their customer who wants a bit of visibility on the road.

You appear to be saying that's not correct and that the branded diesel is in some way special and more stable. Is it the additive pack that makes it stable or is the fuel itself special?

If I'm not correct then I'm very happy to be educated, it's just that everything I know about how business works suggests that the differences between fuels is mainly marketing.

[MarkTM]

I agree with the above, also was advised never to fill-up directly after a delivery to a station (as all of the sediment at the bottom of the tank is in suspension)

Not going to be conclusive until one lab tests it all of the following for both power and economy:

Standard supermarket fuel without additive pack
Standard supermarket fuel with additive pack
Standard supermarket fuel with additive pack and owner added additive (e.g. Millers)
Standard filling station fuel without additive pack
Standard filling station fuel with additive pack
Standard filling station fuel with additive pack and owner added additive (e.g. Millers)
Performance filling station fuel without additive pack
Performance filling station fuel with additive pack
Performance filling station fuel with additive pack and owner added additive (e.g. Millers)

Hard to believe it's not been done, but suspect it has been and not released as there's so little difference as to make paying an extra 20ppl nonsensical.

It does beg the question of what happens if a delivery driver forgets to add the additive pack:confused: :biglaugh:

[Wuffles]

It does beg the question of what happens if a delivery driver forgets to add the additive pack:confused: :biglaugh:

He gets in trouble if anyone finds out, then the unions get involved, then there's a fuel delivery strike, people panic, dogs and cats living together, total bedlam!

[Passatier3]

I've never put supermarket fuel in any car and my wife has only ever put the odd tankful in so it's all a bit arbitary for me.

But it's interesting that they have difference additive packs to the branded fuels and even within the different supermarkets.

Why is that? Can understand it for the top branded fuels but not for standard fuels. Would have thought that the differences would be neglible but it does imply that maybe there is a cost involved and therefore a difference in quality once the additive has been added?

[wja96]

I've never put supermarket fuel in any car and my wife has only ever put the odd tankful in so it's all a bit arbitrary for me.

But it's interesting that they have difference additive packs to the branded fuels and even within the different supermarkets.

Why is that? Can understand it for the top branded fuels but not for standard fuels. Would have thought that the differences would be neglible but it does imply that maybe there is a cost involved and therefore a difference in quality once the additive has been added?

it only implies that they have a point of difference. I could put gold in my diesel fuel and it would add to the cost but not necessarily improve the running of the car.

in the Wikipedia article it mentions additive packs to replace sulphur in low-sulphur "city" diesel.

It is entirely feasible that one fuel is better than another. I'm waiting for glammr to confirm it.

My thinking currently is simply that in my application (large engine, relatively low specific output per litre) I can't see any difference in performance or fuel economy.

i know for a fact that if I had a petrol performance VAG car (Audi TT 2.0 TFSi, anything running the 180ps 1.4l twincharger engine) if you don't put at least 98 Octane in it you don't get the full power output. But VAG tell you that inside the fuel cap and on my A6 it just says not 100% biofuel. I also know that the petrol engined guys on the Audi TT forum swear by the Tesco Momentum 99 RON fuel, so maybe not all supermarket fuel is the same either?

And I'm in a diesel. Hence I save myself a few bob on diesel and I'm quite happy. And I'm equally happy for everyone else to fill up at BP or wherever because it will make the queues shorter at ASDA.

[Brycie]

One of the additives Esso add is a cylinder-top detergent. When I use branded fuel, it's for peace of mind that I'm doing what I can to protect & maintain my engine. I choose branded dishwasher & washing machine detergent to do the best job on a few gsrments & dishes, so why for the sake of a few quid per fill up, wouldn't I do the same to use the best product in my £2,000 car engine?

Each to their own I guess.

[wja96]

One of the additives Esso add is a cylinder-top detergent. When I use branded fuel, it's for peace of mind that I'm doing what I can to protect & maintain my engine. I choose branded dishwasher & washing machine detergent to do the best job on a few gsrments & dishes, so why for the sake of a few quid per fill up, wouldn't I do the same to use the best product in my £2,000 car engine?

Each to their own I guess.

That's a perfectly valid position. I replace my cars every 2 years with 60-80,000 miles on the clock. I only use ASDA or Morrisons diesel (for price and the fast payment option) and I've had absolutely zero engine issues over the last 10 years. It's perfectly possible that my cars collapse under their next owner, but I doubt it because I've sold at least two of these cars on to family members and they've had zero trouble either.

It may be that I have no issues because I do mega-mileages and that people who do shorter runs (the classic 10,000-12,000 miles per year drivers) benefit from the additives in these engines, but somehow I doubt it it.

As you say, each to their own.

[wja96]

And I think you might be horrified at the actual cost of an engine! You're probably looking at £2000 just to do the turbo on a bigger engined A6.

[Brycie]

And I think you might be horrified at the actual cost of an engine! You're probably looking at £2000 just to do the turbo on a bigger engined A6.

Ah yes, forgot I was in the C7 section. My 56 plate 2.0pd lump will be considerably cheaper to replace than your engines.