Crafter issues.

[Ollie78]

Hi everyone

This is my first post so thanks in advance for any help recieved.

I have recently purchased a 2007 crafter 35 2.5 tdi mwb high top van (BJK engine) from a large van dealer who shall remain nameless for now. It does have a high milage at 180 thousand but full service history and one owner.
Also we own a golf gt tdi which is fantastic and has never had a problem.

So after a quick test drive and some discussion with the dealer about sorting out a couple of things (which they agreed to do) I agree to trade in my old van and pick up the crafter.

After 10 miles down the road and the check engine light pops up. So I ring the dealer and he says ''no problem just bring it in and we will sort it out'' so I arrange to bring it in a few days. the next day I took a small journey and noticed a hot burning oil smell from the van and some quite bad blue/white smoking, so called them and they said they will look into this at the same time.

I dropped off the van to them and borrowed another van (which actually broke down 2 days later ).
They call me and I go and collect the van. They tell me it had a small water leak that was causing the smoking and this is now fixed and there are no codes showing now, they did a test drive etc.
As I was driving off one of the mechanics said to me something along the lines of don`t worry these all smoke a bit, its normal etc. I thought this a little odd but nevertheless thought it was fixed.
So I think that all is good and proceed with my week. The next day I had to work about an hours drive away. I arrived at the customers house and as I reversed onto the drive noticed big clouds of smoke (blue/ white). I call the dealer again suggesting this is not right. They say no problem we will look at it again. I can`t get there during the week so book it in for a Saturday and borrow another loan van off them. All the while smoke is pouring out everywhere I go.

They ring me a few days later saying they have found the problem.
Apparently the DPF is blocked and say they will get a specialist to come and remove the DPF core and reprogramme the ECU accordingly. I did wonder why not just replace the DPF with a new one and concluded cost. They assured me it was legal to do it as they only removed the core etc. I had read a bit about the DPf and associated problems so decided to allow them to do it.
When I picked it up they said something like '' it will still smoke a bit at traffic lights and when you pull away'' which strikes me as nonsense as you just don`t notice once you are moving, the smoke is still coming out.
Anyhow I take it away again, still a bit smokey but I figured maybe there was some residual debris from the DPF removal. So I took it for a good motorway blast and cross country return journey. Definitely getting it nice and hot. STILL SMOKING AAARGH...

I have covered a total of around 550 miles since purchasing it.

So I have contacted them and stated that I want my money and old van back (nice 100% reliable and not smokey Toyota hi ace 1999, never a hint of smoke or unreliability) .
They are clearly reluctant to offer me this option asking me to '' give them a chance to fix it''. Well I think they have had 2 chances and their engineering skills clearly are not up to the job.

Or any other ideas.

Seeing as they likely won`t give me a refund, I would like to know what is causing this smoking issue so I can make sure they fix it right or failing that so I can fix it right myself and then systematically ruin their reputation.
It is not much on tick over at all but with even a tiny bit of throttle it is blasting out smoke (blueish white).
It doesn't seem like a turbo problem as it starts smoking before I would imagine the turbo is even spooling up, even at 1000 revs. More throttle produces more smoke .
It smells terrible, oily and acrid.
Also it seems a bit reluctant to start as well, but according to them this is also ''normal''.
It does not throw up any engine codes or lights.
Drives ok, not seeming under powered or running lumpy or unduly rattling.
Smokes when cold or hot, maybe a bit more when hot if anything.

Sorry for lengthy post but I really am a bit stuck.

Thanks in advance

Ollie.

[zollaf]

welcome to the forum. sounds like you are having a right old nightmare. its possibly the turbo or egr valve needing replacement. i am concerned about the dpf removal now that its been announced that dfp's will be checked in an mot though. i would want them to fit a new one now. do they have it in writng from you authorising them to remove it ?
personally i would take it to a vw main dealer and get it fixed and present them with the bill, asking them to pay it or meet you in court.

Court rejects dealer's right to repair - Car Dealer Magazine (http://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/court-rejects-dealers-right-to-repair-fault-and-orders-him-to-pay-2750/52909)

this link shows that the dealer you purchased the car from doesn't have the right to repair it unless spcifically written into the contract. they have had opportunity to fix it, they can't, its costing you down time from your work.

[Lukenkarl]

Take it back and claim it is not fit for purpose. Its clearly not

[zollaf]

New rules for MOT to test for diesel particulate filter - Press releases - GOV.UK (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-rules-for-mot-to-test-for-diesel-particulate-filter)

show them this as well. naughty of them to de dpf it really, its there for a reason and is technically illegal.

[Ollie78]

Thanks for the replies.

I stated to them today that the van was unfit for purpose but they said that it didn't break down so was technically fit for purpose. However I am speaking to the salesman who clearly has zero mechanical knowledge and no ''power'' to offer me a refund. Someone else will be calling me tomorrow (probably to try and fob me off) apparently they may offer me an alternative van or fix mine. A refund appears not to be in their vocabulary.

The government notice about the DPF is interesting and I did suggest that it may be illegal to the service guy, he refered me to the website of a company called quantum who apparently do the work. It stated on their website that they only recommend this for off road use.
I called the service guy back having read this and he called quantum who said it was not illegal as they only remove the core of the DPF and so it is technically still there.
It seems this is a large grey are at the moment.

I will print out the government notice and see if it helps.

The other report is also interesting as I did mention that I could take it to VW and send them the bill if they liked. Only as a half joke really. But I may in the end have to do this.

All of this is useless until I manage to speak to the organ grinder (or at least the organ grinders 2nd or 3rd assistant) tomorrow.

Thanks again

Ollie

[zollaf]

sounds to me like they don't really care about their customers and rely on their customers ignorance of the law to protect themselves. start quoting the sales of goods act to them and see if that helps. worth checking up on it if you don't already know about it, but basically the person that sells you a car and makes money from doing so is liable for any fault within 6 months of you owning it. if they don't play ball i would direct them to that link i gave you and tell them they will be in that position very soon unless they sort the van out including a new cat. saying what they have done is legal because you can't see it is the same as saying its ok to smoke dope as long as you make a joint look like a cigarette. fools.

[Ollie78]

Hi everyone

I managed to speak to the sales manager today. He has totally refused the very idea of giving me a refund, even though I quoted the sale of goods act section 14.
He said they had a right to repair it. I replied that this was not the case, citing the above link (Mcgrath vs Barnes). Still no joy.

I said I had the right to get it fixed at VW and then send them the bill etc and that they would not want that.
He said that he had not seen the fault and how much it was smoking etc.
Then I mentioned the fact that they had rendered my van illegal by removing the DPF, he of course claimed to know nothing about this and would get the workshop manager to call me etc. I said that I really was not interested in them fixing it but wanted my money back under section 14 as my legal right.

He said it was fit for purpose unless it actually breaks down. Anyway he said he needed to speak to the workshop manager etc.

5 minutes later the service manager called me back. He clearly remembers the van and me. I explain to him that the problem is still persisting and that I really would like my money back. But seeing as this does not appear to be a possibility I agree to take it in again if they lend me another van.

Before driving there I rang VW van centre and spoke to a nice guy in the service department. I explained the situation to him ad he said it would certainly fail the MOT on 2 different counts (particulate matter and something else). I asked him how much an independent inspection would be from them if I needed one. He said he could only charge it at hourly rate and depended how far they had to go. Probably a couple of hours, he took my name and reg number and made a note.

When I arrived I parked my van at the back of the yard and went in, the guy had gone to collect me a loan van so I waited inside. When he returned my van was idling outside the front so he had obviously gone to check it ( I think they thought it was only a tiny bit of occasional smoke, the sales guy certainly did). So we go outside to the van and there is no denying that it is smoking perpetually, and once any throttle is applied it is gushing out .

I stated that this was no good and he had to agree it was unacceptable. Then it came to discussing the DPF removal which was interesting. I said it was illegal to remove it as it is part of emissions control and mentioned the link and new MOT requirements (by the way this is on the front page of the VOSA website now).
He said it was still there, I stated that the DPF is actually the filter material not the pipe so it was not there, and also told him what VW had said and that it would invalidate my insurance.
He said did I want one back on and I said yes. He said they would swap mine for one off another van ( God forbid they use an actual new part !!).

So they now have my van again, I am driving a horrible transit advertising how great they are for another week.

If I had nothing better to and some money do I would delight in taking this to VW for a nice new engine and then taking these idiots to the cleaners. However I have to try and make a living and cannot spend the time and effort taking them to court.

Cheers

[Lukenkarl]

Have you had a word with the Office of Fair Trading?? Just to put them in the picture

[Alan G H]

Get in contact with Trading Standards department of your local council. I think they will be very interested in your case, if the van is not fixed properly this time.

[Alan02]

Have they done a compression test? May have low compression on a cylinder. If that were the case, you can chuck new parts at it all day and it will still smoke. Just a suggestion. ps. If they have indeed re-mapped the ECU for DPF delete.....are thet going to re-install the map when they fit the 2nd hand one !