Rust spots on roof! Where do I stand?

[ianc1990]

After picking up my 2nd hand A6 last week I decided to wax it last Saturday (it was a very long and cold day!) and during the process, I noticed several spots on the roof that were rust spots - very small in size but there are 3 of them.

There was also a straight line of rust, probably just under 1 inch in length but if you looked very closely, you can see that despite the line of rust being finer than a strand of hair (probably about half the thickness), the paint on the sides is bubbling ever so slightly. There is no depth to it either so certainly doesn't look like a scratch - its no deeper than your typical swirl mark in the paintwork.

After taking the car in for 3 recalls/TSB today, I asked them to have a look at it so I'm going back towards the end of the week so that they can ask the bodyshop guys for advice.

Firstly, am I being unreasonable when raising this with Audi as this is a 2nd hand car(purchased from an independent dealership)? Its only got 5000 miles on it and just gone 1 year old.

Secondly, if they do decide to raise a warranty claim with Audi, what do I expect? Personally, I wouldn't be very happy with a re-sprayed roof and if I had the car from new, I would most certainly be fighting for a replacement as it seems the roof wasn't galvanised at the factory. Can I still ask for a replacement despite it being a second hand car?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

[Guest 2]

You have a 12 year anti corrosion guarantee if the rust comes from below the paint. Any external factors such as stone chips etc then the claim will be rejected.

[ianc1990]

Absolutely - that's what baffled both myself and the dealership - there doesn't seem to be any chips/scratches so we're not sure where the rust came from

Looking very closely, there isn't a single stone chip/scratch/scuff or any other mark at all on the car, expected at only 5k on the clock!

[Igloo]

After picking up my 2nd hand A6 last week I decided to wax it last Saturday (it was a very long and cold day!) and during the process, I noticed several spots on the roof that were rust spots - very small in size but there are 3 of them.

There was also a straight line of rust, probably just under 1 inch in length but if you looked very closely, you can see that despite the line of rust being finer than a strand of hair (probably about half the thickness), the paint on the sides is bubbling ever so slightly. There is no depth to it either so certainly doesn't look like a scratch - its no deeper than your typical swirl mark in the paintwork.

After taking the car in for 3 recalls/TSB today, I asked them to have a look at it so I'm going back towards the end of the week so that they can ask the bodyshop guys for advice.

Firstly, am I being unreasonable when raising this with Audi as this is a 2nd hand car(purchased from an independent dealership)? Its only got 5000 miles on it and just gone 1 year old.

Secondly, if they do decide to raise a warranty claim with Audi, what do I expect? Personally, I wouldn't be very happy with a re-sprayed roof and if I had the car from new, I would most certainly be fighting for a replacement as it seems the roof wasn't galvanised at the factory. Can I still ask for a replacement despite it being a second hand car?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Independant dealer = no Audi?

If so, Tough look. I'd be tempted to take it back. Audi offer a swap for another vehicle.

[ianc1990]

No - unfortunately not an Audi dealership.

I have already been tempted to take it back but unfortunately, I'm not 100% sure I'll get a happy result. All of that aside, they won't have a similar spec vehicle to swap it for, and even though it's been less than a week, my part ex has already been sold...

[Igloo]

That's their problem. Not yours. Infact it benefits you as you'll have cash to assist with the next purchase.

If Audi don't give you a good result, I'd give a call to the dealer and advise them of the situation.

You, as the customer get it resolved to your standard. Don't let them think otherwise.

There are ways and means of getting your end result. In the eyes of the law you're the one who is right.

They may say "you have x time to get it sorted". This is wrong, The law doesn't give a time. Let us know how you get on :)

Other than that, Is the A6 everything you wanted? :)

[ianc1990]

You may see a few other posts of mine...the issues apart from the rust are the fact that hill hold assist has to be turned on after each engine cycle, and the creaky steering wheel, which has just had lube applied.

Apart from the above, I ABSOLUTELY love it :D

[ianc1990]

So, after all this, I went to collect my O/H 5 minutes ago and came back home and realised there was some water in a line coming upto the drive, I looked unde the drivers side front wheel arch and there's water pouring out from the inner side of the wheel arch lining. After it created a big puddle on the drive, it stopped.

Smells like antifreeze but its on the opposite side of the washer fluid tank - shortly after, the fill washer fluid warning came on. Not Impressed! I assume that somehow, the headlight washer hose is leaking on the drivers side - no other explanation I can think of.

I wont be waiting to hear back from audi anymore - I'll be screaming down the phone to the dealership I bought it from tomorrow!

[ukgroucho]

Ugh I feel for you sir.

I bought second hand cars, albeit oldish ones, for my wife a long time ago (I was a company car driver, so not an issue for me) - and we had such a sh!tt4 experience.

What I became rapidly aware of was that you really really need to have some insight into the vehicles history and the 'nature' of the previous owner(s).
It is tough.. and something of a lottery.
The good news for you is that it's a newish vehicle and you need to exercise your rights strenuously.

Good luck, you made a good choice in car model, I hope you get the experience that you hoped for.

[ianc1990]

Well after all that, it seems that the huge leak was a simple fault. I called my local Audi when they opened at 8.30 AM and I was there for 8.45. Techs looked at my car at 9.00. It turn out that somehow, one of the elbows that feeds the headlight washer on the drivers side had cracked!

The technician said has never seen an elbow crack before - anyhow....part ordered and will be fitted on Friday.

Customer service at my local Audi has been excellent. I think I should be dropping them a thank-you email soon!

[Igloo]

Well after all that, it seems that the huge leak was a simple fault. I called my local Audi when they opened at 8.30 AM and I was there for 8.45. Techs looked at my car at 9.00. It turn out that somehow, one of the elbows that feeds the headlight washer on the drivers side had cracked!

The technician said has never seen an elbow crack before - anyhow....part ordered and will be fitted on Friday.

Customer service at my local Audi has been excellent. I think I should be dropping them a thank-you email soon!

Good news :-) do you live in a "cold" area and iced up?

[ianc1990]

Very good news indeed! Couldn't sleep all last night thinking about it and I'm feeling so tired today - glad it was so simple.

North Yorkshire - its not too bad actually, I haven't yet had frost on the A6 since I purchased last week and it and never really got below 5 since then.

[ScottyA6]

The 'high' in sunny Malton here was a balmy 4.5 degrees yesterday !

[ianc1990]

Yes it did get a little cooler throughout the day in York too yesterday!

[ianc1990]

So, the car is at Audi today but they called to say that the headlight washer problem cannot be covered under warranty as it looks like at some point, it has been snapped off. They said to put my mind at rest, they did a thorough check of the car and it doesn't seem that it has been in any accident, but perhaps someone caught the hose and snapped the elbow off when doing some repairs in the past.


Anyway, I spoke with the place I purchased the car and asked them to speak to Audi and sort out payment with them directly - I see no need for myself to be involved!

Lets hope they make the call! Waiting to hear back.

[johnsimcox]

My understanding of used car warranties is that if you buy the car from a registered motor trader of any sort (fancy forecourt or private driveway) then they are liable for any fault on the car that occurs within 6 months (such a fault is deemed to have been on the car when to was purchased even if it hadn't shown itself). So the dealer has to fix the washer hose and potentially if it is found that the clutch is a problem and Audi say not covered by the 3 year warranty then the dealer needs to fix it. Your car seems to have a number of problems, do you know why the previous owner sold it after such a short time and at such a low mileage? I am assuming it was not a former demonstrator or Audi UK car as that would have been sold via a franchised dealership. Might be worth trying to intact the PO to ask why they sold it so quickly.

[ianc1990]

Just had a call from Audi to say the dealership called them. They said they were understanding on the phone but said that they wanted to undertake the repairs themselves as the parts are cheap, but the labour isnt! I understand Audi want to charge them £150 for labour alone for replacing this elbow so I understand the dealerships perspective.


Anyway, I gave the dealership a call and they said that they are finalising some bits, and are even happy to send someone down to collect my car (theyre 40 miles way) but they are keen on getting it sorted. I said I'm happy taking it to them as long as there is a fuel contribution.


Once I hear back from Audi about these rust spots and what they plan to do, I will be getting in touch to either go ahead with the repair from the dealership, or ask them for my money back/a swap with another White A6, 62 plate or newer with less than 5K on the clock!

[Passatier3]

My understanding of used car warranties is that if you buy the car from a registered motor trader of any sort (fancy forecourt or private driveway) then they are liable for any fault on the car that occurs within 6 months (such a fault is deemed to have been on the car when to was purchased even if it hadn't shown itself). So the dealer has to fix the washer hose and potentially if it is found that the clutch is a problem and Audi say not covered by the 3 year warranty then the dealer needs to fix it. Your car seems to have a number of problems, do you know why the previous owner sold it after such a short time and at such a low mileage? I am assuming it was not a former demonstrator or Audi UK car as that would have been sold via a franchised dealership. Might be worth trying to intact the PO to ask why they sold it so quickly.

And I'd be interested in knowing why such a new, low mileage car was being sold through a non-franchised dealer.

[ianc1990]

The dealership I purchased the car from are a prestige-only dealership (thats what they call themselves). The A6 was actually one of the cheapest ones there, amongst a black edition 2013 A4 :) Many £50k + cars in-stock, such as 2 R8s!

I understand that my car was traded in for Range Rover!

Spoke to aftersales on Friday. They got in touch directly with Audi to ask them what the part number is for the broken part, and Ill be popping over once they have it in stock for them to replace. I must say, they have been very good!


It's been nothing but worries and sleepless nights last week, but today I got to do quite a lot of driving and it made me realise how much I actually LOVE the car :) It seems that everything is being handled to my satisfaction. My single worry now is the clutch because I cannot for the life of me replicate the issue! Perhaps I shouldn't worry about it as much.

[ianc1990]

Quick update on all this - Headlight washer all sorted. The dealership I purchased it from were very good indeed. Even offered me a courtesy car whilst I was there to pop into town (was tempted by the 63 plate aston martin vantage but decided to wait :p)

Audi have also got back to me to say there is no possibility that the rust could have been caused by an external factor, and it seems that the rust is a result of something under the paint.
As a result of this, they will be sanding it down 'to the metal' and re-spraing the entire roof, of course completely free of charge.

I'm as happy as I can be with that - obviously not impressed that a 1 year old car needs to have its roof re-sprayed but what can you do! I want to make sure its 100% when its re-sprayed and apart from the obvious visual checks, I have posted on the forum to see if anyone close to me has a paint thickness gauge ( Need to rent/borrow Paint Depth Gauge (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?153669-Need-to-rent-borrow-Paint-Depth-Gauge&p=870375#post870375))


Can anyone think of anything else I should be checking?

[ukgroucho]

Yeaah but here is my concern.

It's all well and good that Audi are offering to take it back to bare metal and respray BUT one of the 'nice' things about steel body parts on Audi's is that they are galvaniized - which should prevent rust (hence the 12 year anti corrosion warranty). If the roof of your vehicle is just being repainted on top of bare metal that seems to imply no galvanization and no extended anti-rust warranty(?)

You might wish to ask a few more questions.

[ianc1990]

Hmm very good point there!

I cannot see them not providing the 12 year warranty, but the galvanisation is certainly a concern. I will be calling to ask shortly!

[johnsimcox]

Hmm very good point there!

I cannot see them not providing the 12 year warranty, but the galvanisation is certainly a concern. I will be calling to ask shortly!
If Audi are getting the work done/doing it themselves then I am sure they will address all the issues including making sure it is properly rust protected, although clearly regalvanising it when it is on the car is not really practical. On my previous A6 i had to have a door replaced (airport valet parking company!!). The body shop used by my insurer gave me a lifetime guarantee on the woe they did so that was in some ways better than the rest of the car

[ianc1990]

I called Audi to ask the questions.


The warranty guy wasn't so sure how far they will sand down, but I pointed out that if there is rust, it MUST be down to the metal :P


They will of course honour the 12 year paintwork warranty, no question about that - he seemed surprised I asked!


I also asked how thick the paint should be after completion. He said he will get one of the bodywork guys to call me with the complete ins and outs of the process and I can also ask him any questions when I drop off the car.


My biggest worry is the colour match - as the car is white, it certainly stands out and I want to make sure that the roof doesnt turn out any different than the rest of it. I know the white can be really easy to spot if its not 100% the same.

[Wuffles]

My biggest worry is the colour match - as the car is white, it certainly stands out and I want to make sure that the roof doesnt turn out any different than the rest of it. I know the white can be really easy to spot if its not 100% the same.

Come and see my bumper if you like, it's a lovely white. Not quite the same as the rest of the car in some people's eyes, but nice all the same.


The body shop used by my insurer gave me a lifetime guarantee on the woe they did so that was in some ways better than the rest of the car

Sometimes, typos & auto-corrections are beautiful.

[ianc1990]

was yours re-sprayed? and if so, by Audi or another bodyshop?

[ScottyA6]

A good quality job with proper quality primer and paints should be as good as it can get as opposed to an undefective factory finish. The only other option that I see is replacing the panel which wouldn't thrill me in the slightest. If you put a paint guage on the new paint it will be considerably thicker than the factory paint, its put on by a Mk1 human as opposed to Audis Androids and they need a depth of paint to cut and polish to get a refined finish. TBH it is no bad thing as there is more meat in the paint if you need to polish out a scratch as long as they don't dolop it on to the point you get orange peel. The roof panel should be a good panel in terms of matching colour as from where you usually see your car (on foot) it is all but horizontal, its on the vertical between differently painted panels that any difference in shade shouts at you.

What colour is it ?, if you said solid white or black I would be happiest, easy peasey to match them up, if light metallic watch out for bloom in the paint- looks like clouds in the finished surface, you see it worst in silvers but not in all light-it shows worst in partially shaded daylight so if they try to hand over from inside a strip lighted shop take it outside before you accept it and try and look at it from as many angles as you can. I'm sure you wouldn't but don't accept anything apart from a finish that is as good as the rest of the car and do not be fobbed off with 'the best respray will never look the same as factory job' BS. I've heard it too many times and it is complete nonsense. Good luck !

[ianc1990]

Thanks Scotty. The colour is solid white, think its 'Ibis White'. It's Audis own bodyshop so I'm expecting a perfect finish.
I'm hoping to measure the thickness once they have completed the works - just waiting for a reply from someone in another post who may lend it to me for a few minutes.

[Wuffles]

was yours re-sprayed? and if so, by Audi or another bodyshop?

Metallic White, the second time. First time may have been Ibis White, it certainly wasn't Metallic White. All three resprays (third time was due to them not fitting the bumper correctly and then having to blend the paintwork into the rest of the car) were done by an Audi bodyshop. It still looks weird, but that's because I know to look for it.

Glad yours got sorted out.

[michaelsanderso]

I have a pearl black which is.... Phantom black i think, either way it's the pearl. The day I was due to pick mine up... 61plate on 38k, Audi phoned me to say they were terribly sorry but in prep they'd noticed 2 stone chips. They apologised for the delay in collection but if I were willing to wait another 24 hours, they'd pull off and strip the front bumper, flat it all back, prime it, spray it, and refit it.
Obviously, I told them to go for it, which they did, and when I collected it, they gave me a bottle of champagne as an apology for the delay. Never known service like it.
Bumper is immaculate. perfect match, no imperfections, well chuffed.

[ScottyA6]

You should be right at that.

[A6ian]

I have a pearl black which is.... Phantom black i think, either way it's the pearl. The day I was due to pick mine up... 61plate on 38k, Audi phoned me to say they were terribly sorry but in prep they'd noticed 2 stone chips. They apologised for the delay in collection but if I were willing to wait another 24 hours, they'd pull off and strip the front bumper, flat it all back, prime it, spray it, and refit it.
Obviously, I told them to go for it, which they did, and when I collected it, they gave me a bottle of champagne as an apology for the delay. Never known service like it.
Bumper is immaculate. perfect match, no imperfections, well chuffed.

Was that Wakefield Audi?

[birdmansa6]

I thought Audis were made from Aluminium so they should not rust anyway, but I could be wrong.

[johnsimcox]

I thought Audis were made from Aluminium so they should not rust anyway, but I could be wrong.
Only the A8 (and the old A2) are 100% Aluminium. The C7 A6 has some Aluminium structure and also some panels (think it is the bonnet + front wings but may be wrong) roof is steel

[ukgroucho]

I think also the doors (not sure about tailgate) and of course the Alu Space Frame passenger compartment.

[johnsimcox]

I think also the doors (not sure about tailgate) and of course the Alu Space Frame passenger compartment.
Found this diagram of an A6 (saloon) showing what is made of what
23259

[ukgroucho]

Cool diagram johnsimcox. I guess that also means the rear door on Avants / allroads will be alu also.

You an kinda tell that the doors are alu 'cos they are quite light (compared to my old C6). It does have a couple of disadvantages of course ... people tend to slam them ("GRRR DON'T SLAM THE DOORS") and they are more prone to door dings from ignorant a$$es who pull up alongside and open their doors without care for what is alongside.

[johnsimcox]

Cool diagram johnsimcox. I guess that also means the rear door on Avants / allroads will be alu also.

You an kinda tell that the doors are alu 'cos they are quite light (compared to my old C6). It does have a couple of disadvantages of course ... people tend to slam them ("GRRR DON'T SLAM THE DOORS") and they are more prone to door dings from ignorant a$$es who pull up alongside and open their doors without care for what is alongside.
Just done the magnet test and the tailgate and rear doors on an Avant are indeed aluminium (well not steel anyway!)

[Lukenkarl]

. It's Audis own bodyshop so I'm expecting a perfect finish.
the best of luck with that one

[man le-mans]

Most main dealers have a paint gauge as when I had my older C6 it had rust scabs come up on the doors. So I took the car to an Audi dealer and they went and got the paint gauge tester to see if it had been re-painted which it never had been. He confirmed the paint was genuine has he said the paint would be thicker if it was painted. And the problem was the galvanised panels re-acting to the paint and they re-painted all 4 doors and he said it was a common problem.
The colour of the car was Daytona grey

[michaelsanderso]

Yes Ian it was! Ian from Sandal? Is it you?

[ianc1990]

Collected the car once they completed it and ensured I did it on a sunny day with good light so I could spot any issues. (The automatic 3.0 A6 quattro I had as a courtesy car was effin AMAZING!)

I thoroughly inspected the roof, including key areas such as where the paint meets the windscreen and again on the back window and the pillars. Absolutely perfect. Cannot fault a single thing and I tried so hard to do so! There was some polish in the gap at the windscreen that I thought looked like running paint, but they were quick to wipe it off.

Absolutely chuffed with it! They said this is the second A6 they have had to re-spray with a similar issue in the same spot. Apparently there is a metal that Audi uses to join the roof to the pillars which is very prone to corrosion/rusting and they think it may be a common fault with the A6. I think he said brass, but that doesn't sound right?

Anyway, since collecting my car, I seem to get a lot of vibrations at around 70mph - I think they may have climbed a curb at high speed and the wheels may need re-balancing. NOT impressed! Going to call them about that tomorrow.

[Wuffles]

Brass doesn't rust, it's an alloy used for plumbing.

So, all is well, have you checked your alloys for damage?

[ianc1990]

I know which is why it didn't make much sense to me. But I've either completely misunderstood the guy, or he was wrong :)

No I haven't checked them yet. I collected the car yesterday lunchtime and it wasn't until later this evening that I got to do a longer trip (so driving at a speed where its noticeable) Not much light so didn't bother looking. It's my first task for the morning though!

[Wuffles]

Maybe they updated the steering software...I'm joking, or am I.

Good luck tomorrow.

[ianc1990]

Haha! Mine was updated about a month ago so it can't be that one :P

[ScottyA6]

I am glad you got decent paint. It is more of an art than a science, at least that is what the best body and paint man I ever
met told me (rest his soul) Couldn't agree more about those Quattros- I am loving mine more by the day.

[ianc1990]

You're just teasing me now :P - I really did like it and when I come to changing cars again, an automatic Quattro will be high on my list.


After speaking to Audi, they said its common for some of the balancing weights to fall off the wheels when the car is being 'baked' so its off back in on Monday for the wheels to be re-balanced.