Audi A6 2.7 tdi - tappet noise on cold start up

[wiz99]

Hi all you technical experts...

The tappets on my A6 2.7 tdi are noisy on initial start up from a cold engine. The noise only lasts for 1 or 2 seconds and then the engine sounds perfectly OK throught the rev range, hot or cold. Switch off the engine and start it up straight away and there is no tappet noise at all - it only happens after the engine has been switched off for some time (and either cooled down, or the oil has drained into the sump ??)

Has anyone got experience of this happening and what the solution may be ??

(I asked at a local garage and they agreed it is a tappet noise, but as it seems to last for such a short time they said not to worry.........???)


Thanks in advance (from a new forum member... )

[Guest 2]

Welcome to VWAF

Is it loud enough to capture in a video?


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[MarkTM]

Wiz, when did it last have an oil change and what oil's in it?

I've known other marques produce louder tappet noise when a) the wrong viscosity of oil is used b) when the oil's on it's last legs or c) when there's not enough oil in it...or indeed if it's overfilled

Just a thought!

[longjohn1985]

Could it be the timing chain rattle? It could be that the chain tensioner is hydraulic so when the engine is off for a large amount of time the pressure could drain away??

[Peter D]

Age mileage and engine code required. It is on the ID label in the spare wheel bay like BPP or BSG. Tappets and chain rattle sound quite different. Regards Peter

[wiz99]

Welcome to VWAF

Is it loud enough to capture in a video?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for response...

If I get a recoding on the phone / video - can I upload it to this site ?

[wiz99]

Wiz, when did it last have an oil change and what oil's in it?

I've known other marques produce louder tappet noise when a) the wrong viscosity of oil is used b) when the oil's on it's last legs or c) when there's not enough oil in it...or indeed if it's overfilled

Just a thought!


Thanks for reply...

The last service was carried out 6 months ago and since then done 5,000 miles, they used correct oil, the level is slightly above the high mark on the dip stick (about 1/4 inch), so all seems OK, no oil has been used in last 3,000 miles since I bought the car.

[Peter D]

Age mileage and engine code required. It is on the ID label in the spare wheel bay like BPP or BSG. Tappets and chain rattle sound quite different.
Not that it effect your tappets/rattle but using no oil in 3000 would be most unusual.
Regards Peter

[MarkTM]

^^Mine 3.0's not used any oil in 12k miles...should I be worried?

Albeit it's had two oil changes but no top-ups whatsoever.

[Guest 2]

Mine doesn't use any oil either between 10k services.

3.0 TDI - ASB.

[MarkTM]

Chris, then according to Peter we have unusual cars! :biglaugh:

[Guest 2]

Or well run-in and cared for cars! ;)

A3 doesn't use a drop either.

[Peter D]

Small quantities of oil are used in piston ring lubrication and seapage from the turbo bearings to name just two areas. When you say non, you mean not a lot. If it was really non you engine would be well knacked by now. Just take the intercooler feed pipe off and see the oil that is coating the pipe. That is from the turbo. You are fooling yourself to think you use none at all. Regards Peter

[gupsterg]

Thanks for reply...

The last service was carried out 6 months ago and since then done 5,000 miles, they used correct oil, the level is slightly above the high mark on the dip stick (about 1/4 inch), so all seems OK, no oil has been used in last 3,000 miles since I bought the car.

Are you saying your oil level has risen? Why I ask is leaking injectors can cause oil to rise ...

In the tech bulletin for chain rattle they state to check injectors before diagnosing chain tensioner. They state poor injectors can cause noise at/after startup , will look up exact wording :) ...

[MarkTM]

Albeit an old/american/truck post

What is the consequence of significantly overfilling the engine oil on a Ford Windstar? - Yahoo! Answers (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060815164729AAtLEd7)

I'd always thought that overfilling with oil was significantly worse than under filling.

As Peter says all engines use oil, so if yours is overfilled to this extent after 5k miles it still shows on the dipstick it must have been VERY overfilled.

Appreciate even in the most expensive workshops they still have greasemonkeys and people that don't know what they are doing

[Cool384]

So what is the difference between tappet noise and timing chain noise, my 54, 3.0 TDi SE Q, has done it ever since I acquired at 39k and we're now at 106k it's sounds no worse and sounds exactly as my 2.5 did which had a leaky oil non return valve on the RH Cyl Head.
Oh and mine uses virtually no oil either between services!

[Peter D]

Tappet noise and chain rattle sound quite different. Clearly if the chain is rattling it will eminate from the rear of the engine. Tappet noise is just a tapping from the top end. Regards Peter

[Cool384]

Cheers Peter, it's not really that easy from under the bonnet to determine...

however having recently returned to VWAF I am now getting over sensitised having read about poor Gupstegs nightmare thinking if its the RH timing chain tensioner backing off against Camshaft pressure overnight then I should attend to it.
Would I need the Crankshaft and the camshaft locking tools to change the tensioner.
i read an early post by A8 I think which indicated to do the job you would...

[gupsterg]

Why I went for chain rattle ...

i) mine was progressively getting nosier and not staying consistently same noise
ii) at times I was getting a pause when trying to crank engine and at times even full on failure to start ie no cranking at all just dead silence, I would then have to turn key back to off wait and try again.

Since getting work done touch wood, I have never heard that cringing noise again or had the pauses on crank or failure to start ...
For a period I even had duff injectors after having had chains done and never got that crank/start failure ...

I never had any DTC's as to why crank would not occur ...
I never found any reason like water in plenum chamber, starter motor issue etc to stop crank when key turned ...

I would never wish my car on any poor bugger ...

[Peter D]

Just changing the RH tensioner is a false economy. Rarely is it just the one. If it is chain rattle then you need new chains and tensioners. Expensive, someone posted on here that got it done for £2,500 but £3,000 to £3,500 more likely. There are 4 chains all of which have tentioners. You will need a lot of special to type tools and a workshop manual, this is a big job if you actaully have chain rattle.
Regards Peter

[Peter D]

Read this thread.
Timing chain noise 2.7 v6 tdi (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?97666-Timing-chain-noise-2-7-v6-tdi)
Regards Peter

[gupsterg]

You will need a lot of special to type tools and a workshop manual, this is a big job if you actaully have chain rattle.

A very true comment Peter :approve: ...

I asked all sorts of questions before booking, at booking, at drop off and the highly reputed garage (not connected to forum at present) told me they had everything but they didn't ...

I'm not gonna go into details as i) there are too many ii) I'd rather forget and move on ...

If anyone reading this has chain rattle and is thinking of getting full set done and you value your car go to someone like MDM Technik who has all the right engine stands and equipment ...

Link:- VW AUDI Forum - VWAF (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?144923-Crewe-trained-Bentley-specialists-MDM-Technik-Ltd)

Link:- Audi Service | VW Service | Bentley Service | Skoda Service | Seat Service | MOT | Repairs | Cheap Car Servicing | Dealers | Repairers | Specialists | MDM Technik | Marlow | Buckinghamshire (http://www.mdmtechnik.co.uk/)

[Peter D]

Crasher will do this for you. Regards Peter

[gupsterg]

Yes Peter :) , I wish I'd gone there especially as he supports not only forum with sponsorship and most of all his posts but alas I choose a local highly rated garage to me as I thought any issues from work will be resolved easier if close to me and I thought if they do this right I will build a relationship to get next stage of work ie remap/custom tuning alas not meant to be with this car :( ...

I once had new engine/turbo/injectors/clutch all done at a VAG dealer and the injector piping leaked after a few hundred miles but they fixed FOC + ASAP + great after care ...

I did envisage some teething problems after work but never what went on with the A6 ...