Best Clutch

[sam.bird3]

Just got in from a little spin and my Clutch feels like it is on its way out, the biting point is a bit high, it feels like it is starting to slip ever so slightly.

It's not at the point of imminent breakdown cos when I put it in 2nd with the handbrake on and lift the pedal it stalls. This is how I was always taught to check the clutch quickly.

What would be the best clutch to get considering my car is Tuned.

[Doctle Odd]

How tuned? Luk or Borg & Beck (Frontline) are fine for standard cars

[sam.bird3]

It's only lightly Tuned, it's not putting out anything serious, only About 215bhp. had a full exhaust and remap as the main tuning tweeks

[Doctle Odd]

I'd say you need to aim higher than standard kit mate. Did you take a look on Crasher's website, he does upgraded clutch kits VW Audi Seat Skoda Specialists | Parts Service Modifications (http://www.candrenterprises.co.uk/)

[adamss24]

Hi, doing a clutch and balancer shaft upgrade to a 2.0 Tdi PPD 170Bhp, also tuned to about 205 Bhp with a dpf delete. The owner went for Sachs SRE and LUK dual mass flywheel. Will report back with how it feels after conversion ! Hoping to hold a little bit more than the engine has to offer !

[sam.bird3]

Will the DMF need replacing too or will that be OK? Can I do any checks before I strip it down? don't wan't to strip it down then find I have to go get a DMF too, but on the other hand don't want to buy one if its not needed

[Doctle Odd]

You pretty much have to change the lot, including DMF, when you have the box out unless your converted to solid flywheel

[bobfish45]

When I did my remap on my Passat,1.9 130bhp,the torque was brilliant,and two months later in 5th and 6th,slipping like mad.Lots of people expressed views as to why.When the clutch was taken out,the friction plate was completely unmarked,also the pressure plate,leading me to conclude that the pressure plate could not exert enough pressure to stop the flywheel/friction plate from spinning.It makes me wonder when people exhort the benefits of organic friction plates,if the pressure plate doesn't have the strength to hold it on,whats the point.I did fit a paddle clutch to that Passat,and it was the dogs,but slightly,only slightly,less than comfortable under normal usage,but that was supplied with a matching pressure plate,£350.Hope this helps.

[sam.bird3]

The clutch is starting to slip even more now, if I floor it from stand still in 1st through to 2nd it revs but the speed doesn't match the revs. Looks like i'm going to have to change it as soon as I get back from Newcastle. I just hope to god it gets me home, it's a good job its mainly Motorway driving so won't need to use the clutch too much!

[Doctle Odd]

If you can drive it "old school" ie don't use the clutch just match the revs for the changes and nurse it home my advice is don't drive it again until it's fixed :beerchug:

[zollaf]

hope you have recovery ?
if its slipping as bad as that, it will slip more in the higher gears where its transmitting more torque.

[Doctle Odd]

Not thinking Z I was thinking no clutch pedal instead of slipping clutch DOH!
hope you have recovery ?
if its slipping as bad as that, it will slip more in the higher gears where its transmitting more torque.

[sam.bird3]

Yes, fortunately I do have breakdown. Just going to nurse her Home on Thursday and fingers crossed I do not need to get the recovery truck out!
I will get it fixed at the weekend definitely, just need to find the best deal on a clutch.

[bobfish45]

Sam,based on my experience,DON'T go for standard clutch whatever the make,if you are doing 215 bhp,it won't last 5 minutes.

[sam.bird3]

I think I'm going to get the black diamond one from Crasher, just need to pm him for a price.

[sam.bird3]

I've been looking at the Black Diamond clutch range and when crasher gets back to me with a price I will get one from him, I am now stuck with what one to go for.
the choices are.....

Stage 1. For cars tuned 20-25% more than standard. (my maths would make that about 187bhp) so this is probably not good enough.

Stage 2. For cars tuned 30-35% more than standard (about 205 bhp)

I can't be 100% on my power gains as not been on a dyno, but I do not want a stage 3 clutch as that would be far too stiff as its a track day clutch whereas the 1 & 2 are fast road clutches.

In everybody's experience, do you think I would get away with a stage 1 or am I best to go for the Stage 2 just to be over sure on reliability?

[sam.bird3]

Does anyone know if the 1.8T 150, 163 & 190 have different Clutches?

If they use the same clutch this then makes the stage 1 more than adequate for my use as 25% Increase on 190 bhp is 237.5 bhp, so well within my levels as I won't be doing any more power upgrades to my car.

[ajrayner]

Does anyone know if the 1.8T 150, 163 & 190 have different Clutches?

If they use the same clutch this then makes the stage 1 more than adequate for my use as 25% Increase on 190 bhp is 237.5 bhp, so well within my levels as I won't be doing any more power upgrades to my car.

Looking on LUK's part website (http://toc.luk-as.de/) gives a different clutch kit part number for each engine even though they are all 230mm. I can only guess that it's different friction material or spring setups to cope with the increasing torque.

[sam.bird3]

Cool. Cheers.

Crasher has just sent me a reply with the prices, the engine code for the clutches he has sent me is BFB (which I think is the 190 Model), I told him my engine code so i'm happy he has got the correct part as I know he knows his stuff. So if that fits mine also then the Stage 1 Clutch will be good enough to handle 25% on top of 190 bhp so more than adequate for my needs, Also, may I Add, very good prices too :) about £50 less than what I was expecting (which is always a Bonus!! lol)

The only thing is the DMF is over £400!!! So all in all this is going to be close to £1000 worth of work as a Clutch is not a driveway job and i'm going to have to pay someone to do it for me.

Can I get away with not doing the DMF? I know it is recommended but is it Necessary or just "Recommended"? could you explain why its necessary rather than just saying "Yes it is" :)

Obviously if it is necessary then I will do it, but it doesn't hurt to try and save £400 here and there :)

[ajrayner]

LUK shows the BFB as being the 163 bhp model???

As for the flywheel...it has a 'friction plate' which mates with the clutch plate. As the clutch wears and slips it can have an adverse effect on the DMF surface by wearing it or, in extreme cases, be ground out by exposed clutch plate rivets. The two parts of the DMF are subject to wear and can also slip. See here for loads of good info (http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/clutch-kit-FAQ-VW-Audi.htm). The problem with the DMF is you won't know what condition it's in until the gearbox and clutch are off the car so it's always wise to bite the bullet and replace it at the same time. If it 'looked ok' and wasn't changed, what's to say it won't fail a few thousand miles down the road meaning another 5-6 hours labour cost to replace it.

Use the LUK link above to get the part number for your flywheel and stick that number in the search box on this site (http://www.buypartsby.co.uk/) and you should be pleasantly surprised by the cost. Recently replaced mine on my 1.9 TDi (LUK clutch and DMF and a tired slave cylinder) at a cost of £787 all in. My mechanic would've been happy to fit parts I'd sourced myself but offered no guarantees on the work as they may have been incorrect parts, etc (they weren't as I highlighted that their supplier had sent the wrong clutch) so I decided saving £120 wasn't worth not having a warranty on such an important part of the car.

[zollaf]

i had a dmf go in a fiat mulipla (customers, i wouldn't be seen dead in one )it looked and felt ok but the centre had literally been ripped out the clutch plate. upon turning the dmf it would go a couple of inches in the direction it would go in drive, and stop, dead, literally, felt like it was hitting a stop. obvioulsy broked and the reason the clutch plate broke like it did.
so, yes, change the dmf or go solid, your call.
against some advice i would go solid and fit a normal clutch with damping springs, probably maybe.

[sam.bird3]

What are the advantages of a SMF over a DMF?

[zollaf]

a smf won't need changing again.

[Doctle Odd]

It's doable on the driveway too, just a pain

[ajrayner]

Be warned, SMFs can be a harsh drive. Talking with a guy on another forum who's clutch went the same time as mine. He went for a SMF but was back at the garage within a week getting a DMF fitted, he hated the drive that much. If you do consider a SMF then I would suggest looking at the performance motorsport websites. They tend to put different parts of different clutch kits together to try and soften the driving experience for a SMF. You'd be looking at around £600 for a stage 1 setup, I reckon.

As for doing it on the driveway...tricky indeed. Probably easier to take the engine out than manoeuvre around a gearbox on a trolly jack :D

[Doctle Odd]

Yes engine out otherwise you need 2 blokes and don't mind swearing
Be warned, SMFs can be a harsh drive. Talking with a guy on another forum who's clutch went the same time as mine. He went for a SMF but was back at the garage within a week getting a DMF fitted, he hated the drive that much. If you do consider a SMF then I would suggest looking at the performance motorsport websites. They tend to put different parts of different clutch kits together to try and soften the driving experience for a SMF. You'd be looking at around £600 for a stage 1 setup, I reckon.

As for doing it on the driveway...tricky indeed. Probably easier to take the engine out than manoeuvre around a gearbox on a trolly jack :D

[ajrayner]

Or invest in one of these 2 POST LIFT CAR / VEHICLE RAMP/ HOIST 4 TON ** NEW** | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-POST-LIFT-CAR-VEHICLE-RAMP-HOIST-4-TON-NEW-/261227054044?pt=UK_Lifting_Moving_Equipment&hash=item3cd25883dc)

[Doctle Odd]

Would YOUR missus agree to have one in the drive? :biglaugh:

[sam.bird3]

I think the question would have to be would my Mum like one on her drive? as that's where I would be living if I even suggested it to the Mrs!!! lol.

[ajrayner]

Would YOUR missus agree to have one in the drive? :biglaugh:

Once I get a driveway and a missus, I'll let you know :D

[sam.bird3]

I think I would rather pay someone a couple of hundred pound to do it than take the whole engine out on my drive!!

[Doctle Odd]

This would help I'm considering investing in one http://www.ebay.ie/itm/310663785401?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_1324wt_813

[sam.bird3]

I know i'm going to get really insulted now, Please go easy on me :)

I've found a 2nd hand DMF that came off a 2003 1.8T 163 with 60,000 miles on the clock, The clutch was in perfect condition and apparently so is the DMF. It comes with a 30 Day guarantee and is not much more than £100 posted.

Would I be mad or is it worth saving £300 and getting it? It may only last a few years but then I may not have the car all that time.

[zollaf]

so, you are running loads of power, your clutch is slipping yet you want to save money by getting a used dmf in '' perfect'' condition.
customers have been thrown out of workshops for such silliness.
spend the dosh, do it properly, get a paddle clutch and single mass flywheel or a new dmf and high performance clutch or whatever, but do it properly and do it once or your garage will love charging you again when it all ends in tears.

[sam.bird3]

Cheers Zollaf, I knew I could count on you to put me straight lol.

I've been reading up on SMF v DMF and read some horror stories about SMF conversions. People say the DMF has "Give" built in to it whereas the SMF doesn't, so the engine is designed around that part giving the flexibility, if it isn't there in the SMF then obviously something else is taking the strain that wasn't designed too. Also people say they are very Noisy compared to a DMF

Also, Crasher has said the Stage 1 will be more than adequate for my car as i'm not planning anymore Power Upgrades.

Looks like all this OT i'm doing at the Moment is going to be spent on a Clutch and DMF!!!

[zollaf]

the dmf is a big damper with a solid clutch plate. the smf has a clutch plate with damper springs in it that absorb the shock loads. yes a dmf is a bigger better damper but smf's have been used on cars since before time. for instance my audi has a smf and is not unbearable to drive. in fact most stuff pre 2000 has a smf.
i sometimes wonder if the dmf was launched as a money maker, trying to solve a problem that simply didn't exist.

[adamss24]

On the 1.8T engine one can use a single mass flywheel and 240mm clutch with sprung hub and stronger pressure plate. Guaranteed future proof and will take whatever you can throw at it ! The SMF will require machining and new dowels/bolt hole drilled and threaded to fit the new, larger clutch- easy to do by a engineering shop ! Cost will be up to 400 quid inclusive of machining ! If you still want to stay DMF then i suggest a Sachs SRE clutch with a uprated pressure plate and organic disc- best combo there is for a daily driver !

[sam.bird3]

I know you're not meant to link to ebay here, so Apologies for doing so, but not got any other way of doing this.

Is this the Sachs Flywheel you mean?

ebay item number-360535650436

It comes with an uprated Carbon Kevlar Clutch for Tuned Engines.

The only thing is, it is about £100 cheaper than doing it through Crasher and I don't want to buy the cheap option and regret it, for the sake of an extra £100 i'd rather get the better DMF and follow Zollafs advice "Do it right, do it once!!"

[Doctle Odd]

Let it be someone else's trouble mate
I know i'm going to get really insulted now, Please go easy on me :)

I've found a 2nd hand DMF that came off a 2003 1.8T 163 with 60,000 miles on the clock, The clutch was in perfect condition and apparently so is the DMF. It comes with a 30 Day guarantee and is not much more than £100 posted.

Would I be mad or is it worth saving £300 and getting it? It may only last a few years but then I may not have the car all that time.

[zollaf]

I know you're not meant to link to ebay here, so Apologies for doing so, but not got any other way of doing this.

Is this the Sachs Flywheel you mean?

ebay item number-360535650436

It comes with an uprated Carbon Kevlar Clutch for Tuned Engines.

The only thing is, it is about £100 cheaper than doing it through Crasher and I don't want to buy the cheap option and regret it, for the sake of an extra £100 i'd rather get the better DMF and follow Zollafs advice "Do it right, do it once!!"

so many times in the past i have done things cheap and regretted it. its just not worth the hassle, time, agro and heartache when you have to do it again. now if it needs doing, its done right. if i can't afford to do this i will save up and do it when i can.

[Doctle Odd]

+1 to Zollaf the Inscrutable's post. If it's not right you have the hassle of returning it at cost to you waiting on a refund and if you used paypal they need a few days to gain a few pence interest on your money

[sam.bird3]

Thanks for all the advice.

Here's my plan......

I have receipts for work carried out on the car for all the main issues related to a 1.8T, water pump, thermostat, timing belt etc etc. All done within the last 18 Months, and using OEM parts. If I then opt for the cheapo option on the Clutch/DMF all that work will be pointless, If I get the Proper part now, when it comes to selling the Car on all the receipts will show how well the car is looked after and I always use top of the range stuff. This will make the Resale value of the Vehicle much more than if I get the crap stuff. Therefore I will not loose too much money (probably less than the difference saved on the cheaper DMF/Clutch)

So, I will nurse the Car home from Newcastle and only use it in real emergencies when i'm back home as it's not been slipping at all Today and I've done about 50 Miles!! I will then wait till the end of the Month when I have more spare cash available and get the Proper DMF and Stage 1 Clutch from Crasher.

[zollaf]

yeah, thats a plan :)

[Doctle Odd]

Don't genuine parts have a 24 month guarantee? Trade Parts < Genuine Parts < Service < Volkswagen Ireland (http://www.volkswagen.ie/en/service/volkswagen_genuineparts/trade_parts.html)

[Doctle Odd]

I misread this due to Mrs Odd asking if I wanted anything from the shop then refusing to bring alcohol.
Thanks for all the advice.

Here's my plan......

I have receipts for work carried out on the car for all the main issues related to a 1.8T, water pump, thermostat, timing belt etc etc. All done within the last 18 Months, and using OEM parts. If I then opt for the cheapo option on the Clutch/DMF all that work will be pointless, If I get the Proper part now, when it comes to selling the Car on all the receipts will show how well the car is looked after and I always use top of the range stuff. This will make the Resale value of the Vehicle much more than if I get the crap stuff. Therefore I will not loose too much money (probably less than the difference saved on the cheaper DMF/Clutch)

So, I will nurse the Car home from Newcastle and only use it in real emergencies when i'm back home as it's not been slipping at all Today and I've done about 50 Miles!! I will then wait till the end of the Month when I have more spare cash available and get the Proper DMF and Stage 1 Clutch from Crasher.

[sam.bird3]

I think that's only if Fitted at an Audi Dealer. If you fit yourself I think they have the Standard 12 Month.

But don't Quote me on that. :0)

But this isn't an issue here as the Clutch is probably the Original one so is 12 years old!! lol

[zollaf]

i think its 2 years whoever fits it, but don't quote me on that. easy enough to produce an invoice from a garage in scotland thats closed down though :)

[Doctle Odd]

2 years guarantee here but the person or business that fits the part must have a VAT number as far as I know

[sam.bird3]

Strangest thing.

The Clutch didn't slip once on the way home, in fact it was pulling lovely in all gears. now I don't know what to think!

Something new I've noticed though.

It now Idles at just below 1100 rpm, i'm sure it used to be about 850-900rpm, what could that be?

[ajrayner]

When mine went it would only slip after about 30 mins of strong driving. IMO if it's slipped once, it's past its best...get it changed!

[sam.bird3]

I agree, definitely changing it.

I was driving hard for 4 Hours 25 Mins!!!! lol

My concern now is getting to the bottom of the Idle speed, I'm pretty sure it never used to Idle that high. and it only does it when it's Warmed up. Surely it should be the other way around!! haha.

I have no access to VCDS so can't even Scan it.

[sam.bird3]

The Garage I've got to do the Work on my Clutch have said they will fit the parts I Supply but won't guarantee the work as they can't guarantee the Parts.

They can however supply a Stage 1 Carbon Kevlar Clutch and an OEM Quality DMF then the work and Parts will have a Guarantee.

Not sure what to do now as I've called it on with Crasher for the parts. I think I would be mad to spend all that money and not have a guarantee!

What would everyone else do???

[Doctle Odd]

Are you far from Crasher?

[sam.bird3]

yes, unfortunately about 3 hours away

[Doctle Odd]

Booking in etc that's not practical. If the parts are guaranteed by Crasher the mechanic has to guarantee his work there shouldn't be any problem IMO. I see where you are now there's a couple of mechanics on the site here might be close and do it.

[sam.bird3]

The garage i'm getting it done at are great, I wouldn't want it done by anyone else as I trust them. I would do it myself if I had a ramp, just don't fancy doing it on the drive!!

[Doctle Odd]

It's a pig of a job on the ground ...

[sam.bird3]

I wouldn't even attempt it!!

[adamss24]

Here's one i am doing for a chap from N. London, Sachs SRE organic clutch, Sachs SRE upgraded pressure plate and OEM LUK dual mass flywheel. The clutch was worn down to rivets + it started slipping after a custom remap and DPF delete. It also had a modified balancer shaft and oil pump drive at the same time...
http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz323/adamss24/DSCF5273_zpsa9b7d56d.jpg (http://s840.photobucket.com/user/adamss24/media/DSCF5273_zpsa9b7d56d.jpg.html)
http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz323/adamss24/DSCF5272_zpsa6dea29e.jpg (http://s840.photobucket.com/user/adamss24/media/DSCF5272_zpsa6dea29e.jpg.html)
http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz323/adamss24/DSCF5271_zpsc379ff31.jpg (http://s840.photobucket.com/user/adamss24/media/DSCF5271_zpsc379ff31.jpg.html)
http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz323/adamss24/DSCF5270_zps0a18e823.jpg (http://s840.photobucket.com/user/adamss24/media/DSCF5270_zps0a18e823.jpg.html)
http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz323/adamss24/DSCF5269_zpsac046154.jpg (http://s840.photobucket.com/user/adamss24/media/DSCF5269_zpsac046154.jpg.html)
http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz323/adamss24/DSCF5268_zps24e76912.jpg (http://s840.photobucket.com/user/adamss24/media/DSCF5268_zps24e76912.jpg.html)
http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz323/adamss24/DSCF5267_zpsab9cfe7a.jpg (http://s840.photobucket.com/user/adamss24/media/DSCF5267_zpsab9cfe7a.jpg.html)
http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz323/adamss24/DSCF5266_zps4e23126c.jpg (http://s840.photobucket.com/user/adamss24/media/DSCF5266_zps4e23126c.jpg.html)
http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz323/adamss24/DSCF5265_zpse67b63ea.jpg (http://s840.photobucket.com/user/adamss24/media/DSCF5265_zpse67b63ea.jpg.html)
http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz323/adamss24/DSCF5264_zps78f71ff4.jpg (http://s840.photobucket.com/user/adamss24/media/DSCF5264_zps78f71ff4.jpg.html)
http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz323/adamss24/DSCF5263_zps12d0aa93.jpg (http://s840.photobucket.com/user/adamss24/media/DSCF5263_zps12d0aa93.jpg.html)

[sam.bird3]

Jesus!!! didn't realise it was an "Engine Out" job.

Glad i'm not doing it myself now!

It's booked in for Thursday, The garage i'm using are a BMW tuning & styling place and actually use Black Diamond Clutches so I will be getting the exact same Clutch as I was going to get from Crasher so thats a result.

[Doctle Odd]

If you don't have a ramp or lift, engine out is sooo much easier than removing the box not a lot more work either,

[adamss24]

I would still use a Sachs SRE organic clutch on the car, nothing comes close quality wise for the price + OEM feel ! Sam, as above, taking the engine out is easier as you don't have to hold the weight of the gearbox- you get tired rather quick when wrestling with a 60-80kg gearbox under the car. Also, this way it's less to disturb: you don't touch propshaft + gear linkage or driveshafts. Also the car gets new fluids at the same time...

[sam.bird3]

would that handle the extra power?

I'm now thinking of sticking a k03s Turbo on her as I've found one very cheap with only 4000 miles on it. It should take the car to about 240bhp

[Doctle Odd]

If you keep this up Sam you'll need a parachute on the back to stop it!

[sam.bird3]

lol.

It's always been my plan to get it close to 240/250 bhp.

My last Tuning experience was a 2002 Mini Cooper S, I took that to 250bhp and it was Awesome!!

http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss63/sambird3/My%20Toys/FrontView1.jpg (http://s562.photobucket.com/user/sambird3/media/My%20Toys/FrontView1.jpg.html)

http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss63/sambird3/My%20Toys/EngineBay.jpg (http://s562.photobucket.com/user/sambird3/media/My%20Toys/EngineBay.jpg.html)

Before that it was Motorbikes, and yes........you guessed it, they never stayed Standard!! my last bike was a Honda CBR Fireblade that i had 187mph out of in Spain

http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss63/sambird3/My%20Toys/HondaCBR929Fireblade-1.jpg (http://s562.photobucket.com/user/sambird3/media/My%20Toys/HondaCBR929Fireblade-1.jpg.html)

Then i had this beast. this was awesome and put a smile on my face everytime i rode it! i spent over £3,500 on the paint job and engine mods.

http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss63/sambird3/My%20Toys/GSXR750-2.jpg (http://s562.photobucket.com/user/sambird3/media/My%20Toys/GSXR750-2.jpg.html)

http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss63/sambird3/My%20Toys/GSXR750sideview.jpg (http://s562.photobucket.com/user/sambird3/media/My%20Toys/GSXR750sideview.jpg.html)

http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss63/sambird3/My%20Toys/GSXR750rearview-1.jpg (http://s562.photobucket.com/user/sambird3/media/My%20Toys/GSXR750rearview-1.jpg.html)

http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss63/sambird3/My%20Toys/GSXR750frontview.jpg (http://s562.photobucket.com/user/sambird3/media/My%20Toys/GSXR750frontview.jpg.html)

[adamss24]

Sachs race engineering clutches are rather conservative with their torque ratting and usually hold 15-25% more torque than stated ! if you ever need to go higher than 550Nm -which i doubt a ko3/ko4 will ever muster- then i would use their single mass flywheel and uprated rs4 pressure plate + organic clutch ! This is my other car's clutch set-up: Southbend OFE stage 3 rs4 clutch (organic clutch lining on one side and fera metallic on the other) and TTV Racing Single mass flywheel (made from billet Crome Molibdenum steel) + modified release bearing, it went on a b6 audi a4 1.9Tdi fitted with a BV43 turbo, lowered CR pistons, larger injectors and a few more bits and bobs ! Did not last long though, the syncromesh on 3rd stripped rather easy- shi*te 5 speed audi gearbox ! Had to go single mass as it was the only way to fit a 240mm clutch in there ! Matter of fact that was a Southbend clutch and flywheel meant to go on a stage 3 1.8TQS with a stroked 2.0L forged engine running a gt30 turbo ! Here's a few teasers, car is curently awaiting a full quattro conversion !
http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz323/adamss24/DSCF5125.jpg (http://s840.photobucket.com/user/adamss24/media/DSCF5125.jpg.html)
http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz323/adamss24/DSCF5124.jpg (http://s840.photobucket.com/user/adamss24/media/DSCF5124.jpg.html)
http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz323/adamss24/DSCF5123.jpg (http://s840.photobucket.com/user/adamss24/media/DSCF5123.jpg.html)
http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz323/adamss24/DSCF5122.jpg (http://s840.photobucket.com/user/adamss24/media/DSCF5122.jpg.html)
http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz323/adamss24/DSCF5121.jpg (http://s840.photobucket.com/user/adamss24/media/DSCF5121.jpg.html)
http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz323/adamss24/DSCF5120.jpg (http://s840.photobucket.com/user/adamss24/media/DSCF5120.jpg.html)
http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz323/adamss24/DSCF5126.jpg (http://s840.photobucket.com/user/adamss24/media/DSCF5126.jpg.html)
http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz323/adamss24/DSCN1236.jpg (http://s840.photobucket.com/user/adamss24/media/DSCN1236.jpg.html)
http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz323/adamss24/DSCN1238.jpg (http://s840.photobucket.com/user/adamss24/media/DSCN1238.jpg.html)
http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz323/adamss24/DSCN1249.jpg (http://s840.photobucket.com/user/adamss24/media/DSCN1249.jpg.html)
http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz323/adamss24/DSCN1252.jpg (http://s840.photobucket.com/user/adamss24/media/DSCN1252.jpg.html)
http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz323/adamss24/IMAG0193.jpg (http://s840.photobucket.com/user/adamss24/media/IMAG0193.jpg.html)
http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz323/adamss24/DSCN2335.jpg (http://s840.photobucket.com/user/adamss24/media/DSCN2335.jpg.html)

[adamss24]

would that handle the extra power?

I'm now thinking of sticking a k03s Turbo on her as I've found one very cheap with only 4000 miles on it. It should take the car to about 240bhp
Ko3s won't fit on longitudinal engines, however you can hybridise yours with a ko3/ko4 compressor wheel ! The hotside is still rubbish so if you want a true 250Bhp out of the car then you might need to spend a few quid and get a real gt28rs. By the time you spend money on turbo, injectors,tune and free flow exhaust, you might as well spend money on a exhaust manifold and downpipe to accomodate the new GT28rs turbo- much more potential out of it !

[sam.bird3]

I'm pretty sure the K03s is the Turbo on the 163 and i think some of the early the 190's have a K03s too.

Plus not sure i would want to put more than 240/250bhp in a 12 year old engine without stripping it down and giving it a proper rebuild, i'd be scared of blowing it up

[sam.bird3]

Just had a little search.

The BFB (163) & BEX (190) A4 1.8T engines both run the K03s Turbo and they are Longitudinal like my AVJ (150), All 3 run with 9:5:1 Compression ratio and all 3 are Small port Heads so in theory i should see significant power increase from just the Turbo. If i then Fit a FMIC and bigger injectors i could then get a Stage 2 Map and get it very close to 270bhp, But i'm not interested in having it that powerful so will stick with the K03s and leave it Stage 1.

[adamss24]

I'm pretty sure the K03s is the Turbo on the 163 and i think some of the early the 190's have a K03s too.

Plus not sure i would want to put more than 240/250bhp in a 12 year old engine without stripping it down and giving it a proper rebuild, i'd be scared of blowing it up
Sorry, meant ko3/ko4 as fitted to transverse engines ! They have a much larger exhaust housing so they run larger turbine and compressor wheels, no longitudinal ko3 will do more than 225 Bhp, even the the ko4-is as fitted optionally on the 190Bhp wont flow much more as it still uses the same exhaust housing- it's rather tight in there !

[sam.bird3]

so is the K03s upgrade a waste of time?

[adamss24]

Being blunt yes, ko3 is a waste of time and money ! Hybrids work but they are un-reliable and they don't do more than 270 Bhp even on transverse engines...For real 250-300 Bhp i would look no further than a gt28rs, reliable, and with even more potential + low end spool and torque as standard !

[sam.bird3]

Too expensive, i'd need bigger injectors, FMIC, New Manifold, New Downpipe, New Map plus the GT28RS I bet that's the best part of a Grand without labour costs, Not gonna throw that money at a car only worth £2,500 at the very most.

If The K03s only gives me about 20hp more then the money I can get it for is worth it in my eyes. if it were £200 then i'd not even think about it. i'm seriously considering getting it as it will take the car to the power i'm looking for. If I want to go Higher than 240bhp then I think I will be looking at getting a newer car or even an S4. I went and looked at one the other day that was 400bhp but it was really high mileage and looked like it was owned by someone that thrashed the pants off it all the time so I passed on it.

[Doctle Odd]

You'll have to settle for some stick on go faster stripes and a whip aerial :biglaugh:

[sam.bird3]

You'll have to settle for some stick on go faster stripes and a whip aerial :biglaugh:
lol

[adamss24]

It seems you already made your mind up ! Best to talk with a good tuner to work their magic and squeeze a few more bhp out of the existing set-up !

[sam.bird3]

All going well I should get my car back tonight. Been hell not having her since Thursday!!!

the end went for the stage 2 Black Diamond Clutch & LUK flywheel. Also had a seal replaced on the gearbox as it was apparently leaking. All this supplied and fitted for £845 so I'm pretty happy with that, I was expecting slightly higher.

[sam.bird3]

Nope!!!
tomorrow now. A seal had gone on the gearbox so needed replacing and didn't turn up till late this afternoon!!!

[sam.bird3]

Just on my way to pick her up. I'm actually pretty excited, not driven her for a week now and I'm quite excited to see if the stage 2 clutch and New flywheel puts the torque down better than the OEM one. May feel a bit more power :)

[sam.bird3]

Got the car back. No difference with the way the power feels :( not sure what I was expecting lol. It feels a lot lighter than what I was expecting from a Stage 2 clutch (which is nice). I'm not getting the intermittent shudderring whilst driving now so it shows the clutch must've been slipping more than I thought, I assumed the very slight "on/off" of the power (very slight) was a set up issue but it must've been the clutch slipping in the lower gears.
Overall I'm very happy with it, and glad to have her back.

[ajrayner]

Go easy on it for a few hundred miles to let it bed in properly. Your shudder was most likely the DMF.

[sam.bird3]

Well.....
2 weeks later and it's gone again!!!
Yesterday heard a rattly whining noise then the distinct smell of clutch. Then within a couple of miles it was slipping like mad, it just about made it to the garage.
I'm so upset, seriously considering getting rid of it