Quiescent current stage 1 & 2 intermittent

[Steve_K]

Hiya guys. Not sure if this has been covered before but after disconnecting the wiring going to the engine mount solenoid, I'm now getting a quiescent current stage 1 & 2 fault code when I run a VCDS scan. The wiring connector isn't damaged and it's properly connected. It says it's intermittent. The fault codes are 02272 & 02273. The car is an Audi A6 2.0 TDI S-line. Thanks in advance.

[Guest 2]

They usually appear when your battery is going flat or losing charge.

There are different stages right up to 6 (I think!).

Clear them and see if they come back.

[Steve_K]

Cheers Chris. The battery was quite low as I was running a few scans without the engine on. Hopefully it'll clear once I clear the DTC's. thanks again.

[Guest 2]

Take it out for a good drive, you can also enable Battery Meter within VCDS to show on the MMI.

http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?92769-A6-C6-VCDS-Changes-Post-amp-Pre-Facelift

[Steve_K]

The battery meter was already enabled on my mmi menu. Didn't realise you could do it through VCDS

[Guest 2]

Yeah for cars without it, VCDS is used to enable it ;)

[gupsterg]

A post that may interest you Steve_K Link:- auto shutdown of convenience systems (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?21458-auto-shutdown-of-convenience-systems&p=102651#post102651)

Also google for ssp 326 pages 11 & 12 cover function of battery meter in MMI and some info on battery manager ...

State of charge (SOC) is something you may also wish to check if looking at battery health ... Link:- Whats the state of charge of your battery? (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?141284-Whats-the-state-of-charge-of-your-battery)

[apole]

Hi,

I would think as others have pointed out that your battery is a bit discharged, so if you can charge it directly or via a long run that is the place to start.

Like others, I had issues with my battery going flat when I first got the car. Long story short it was a combo of something draining it, and the battery manager not being coded.

Next time you are in VCDS (or pull up a recent log if you saved it) check module 61 to ensure it has coding, initially mine was like this for some reason, the zeros meaning no coding.

Address 61: Battery Regul. Labels: 4F0-910-181.lbl
Part No SW: 4F0 910 181 E HW: 4F0 915 181 A
Component: ENERGIEMANAGER H12 0470
Revision: 00000000 Serial number: 00000000013427
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 2341EBBF9B45


Component: von
Coding: 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000


No fault code found.

[TheMatador]

Hi guys, I've got the full suite of these errors on a scan last night:

Background: For a month or so I noticed the car seeming to labour a bit when starting in the morning. 3 days ago when it did it I checked the battery indicator in the MMI and it was down to 1 bar. It did charge back up after about 45mins. I assumed it was a dead battery as it was still the 7 year old original. Changed battery, drove to work/shops/airport, left for 2 days, got back car barely started (phew!) drove home 45mins on motorway and battery didn't charge. Put it on charge when I got home, still didn't charge. Subsequent scan revealed the following.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 61: Battery Regul. Labels: 4F0-910-181.lbl
Part No SW: 4F0 910 181 E HW: 4F0 915 181 A
Component: J0644 BEM H12 0590
Revision: 00000000 Serial number: 00000000087843
Shop #: WSC 00235 210 88443
VCID: 234E3C0EE2C340001CE


Subsystem 1 - Part No: 4F0 915 105 D
Component: von VA0 0607311575
Coding: 344630393135313035442056413030363037333131353735
Shop #: WSC 00000 384 00290


5 Faults Found:
02272 - Quiescent Current Stage 1
000 - - - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 7
Fault Frequency: 22
Mileage: 187220 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2013.07.23
Time: 07:48:20


02273 - Quiescent Current Stage 2
000 - - - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 7
Fault Frequency: 14
Mileage: 187220 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2013.07.23
Time: 18:03:28


02276 - Quiescent Current Stage 5
000 - -
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100000
Fault Priority: 7
Fault Frequency: 13
Mileage: 187220 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2013.07.23
Time: 18:03:38


02277 - Quiescent Current Stage 6
000 - - - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 7
Fault Frequency: 2
Mileage: 203420 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2015.11.11
Time: 13:00:33


02274 - Quiescent Current Stage 3
000 - - - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 7
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 203455 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2015.11.12
Time: 21:00:01

Any thoughts?? I haven't coded the new battery to the car (didn't realise I had to) - it's a Lucas not the OEM Varta but can the car really tell?? It only has two wires - no 'smart' connections.

Thank guys

[MarkTM]

Was the battery a like for like replacement if you read the specs from both of them? If not then you will need to have it coded.

Your first 3 faults are almosr 2.5yrs old, so they should clear. Get a local battery shop to check output of your alternator (if you don't have a voltmeter yourself) If the alt is not putting out 13.5 under load (air-con on full with radio and all lights on) and 14.4 with everything shut down then it could be that you need to have a replacement (or have to the one you have refurbished)

[B5NUT]

New batteries can be faulty, so take it back to the and get it checked. Also it could be an alternator fault, my alternator finally packed up this week, just waiting ton some nicer weather to change it.

[TheMatador]

Thanks - where is the best place to test the alternator output? The jump start connection points under the bonnet or do I have to start removing bits of bodywork??

[MarkTM]

You test at the battery with a voltmeter/multimeter

Google can be your friend too! :biglaugh:

How to test your vehicles alternator using a multimeter. - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dq24oPUVmdA)

[TheMatador]

Thanks - so even without coding the battery to the car the battery should still charge? i.e. are there gizmo's or voltage regulators that might prevent the charge from getting to the battery?

[MarkTM]

Yes it will still charge, but always use the points under the bonnet to do this.

As to the regulator

Voltage Regulator - How it Works Part 1 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxXuKOQTASE)

[TheMatador]

Ok - engine off battery voltage 12.1v. Alternator output 14.1v so it looks like the alternator is ok, but still neither the old or the new battery appears to charge according to the MMI. After replacing the original Audi/Varta battery and running the car for 30 mins the battery voltage rose to 12.4v but MMI still showed just 1 bar. So now I think my options are:

1. Both orig & new batteries are actually bust
2. There is a current drain
3. The MMI is incorrectly reporting the charge

I'm thinking option 1 is the most likely at this point, though a bit thrown that the MMI did not show more than 1 bar at 12.4v (orig correctly coded battery).

[MarkTM]

If you have the opportunity then slow charge with something like a Ctek which can take a few days to condition and charge.

Did you check the output under load and without?

[TheMatador]

Unfortunately I don't have a proper load tester, I just did the basic volts without load and it dropped back from 12.4 - 12.1 after a short time. Found this great clip How to Tell if Your Car Battery is Really Bad with Kent Bergsma: Battery Clinic Part 3 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi8sUE9XCgA)
A conductance test would very useful, but I don't have one of those either! I have taken the brand new (Lucas) battery out of the car and have it on the bench under a 5A charge so it'll take about 16hours. The orig. one is back in the car for the time being.

What is weird to me is why did the new battery not charge (installed it Tuesday morning, drove to the airport Tuesday evening and it was down to 1 bar when I returned on Thursday then didn't charge at all on the 45mins drive home). I didn't code it but that shouldn't stop it. I'm assuming that the MMI battery meter is just going on output voltage (12.6=100%?), which shouldn't need any coding. If it's more intelligent and looking at conductance then yes, definitely it needs to know, but it's still not going to prevent the battery from charging.

There could be a drain on the battery of course, not sure how I go about finding that out.

For reference, here are the two battery specs:

Original Audi (Varta):
Capacity: 110Ah
Amps: 520A

Replacement Lucas Premium:
Capacity: 90Ah
Amps: 750A

I'll put the fully charged new Lucas back in the car tomorrow and check the voltage across the terminals when the car is running. I'll also code it properly and see if that makes a difference.

[TheMatador]

Right - looking like it's a battery drain issue!! Fully charged battery outputing 13.0v at rest and the car is drawing 5.8Amps* with everything off and just the boot open. When I did the test whatever unit is in the boot above the battery (behind the panel) was clicking away adding about 0.5Amps to the draw.**

Removing fuses SC12 and SC10 dropped the draw to about 3Amps ( I think these are the MMI and front display unit). Didn't find any other fuses that had an impact before I ran out of time but there are loads more to try. I could really do with a fuse/circuit diagram. I will post a help me in the main forum.

The passenger door and boot were open for most of the test (boot the entire time) because they have to be to get at the fuses so I don't know how much of the draw is because they are open

*This explains why the battery wouldn't charge off the charger because that only outputs 5Amps!

**It stopped doing this when I put the proper negative terminal back - it clearly didn't like the multimeter in the circuit.

[niall campbell]

Looking at your volts at alternator and at battery ................ then there is a problem.

My jump start point under the bonnet was going red hot and almost set the car on fire, burnt a hole on the bonnet insulation and melted the plastic round the jump start terminal and was so hot I couldn't touch it.

Can you check yours with the engine running to see that it is not causing a resistance and not allowing full charge going to the battery.

After the jump start terminal , the wire goes into a box in the scuttle area in front of the steering wheel, access is obtained by taking the window wipers off and unhooking the hard plastic which goes into the bottom of the windscreen.

Check that this box is dry and all connections are clean. Also check the scuttle is dry and free of water.

If you have 14.5 volts at alternator, you should have 14.0 and upwards at battery

[TheMatador]

Looking at your volts at alternator and at battery ................ then there is a problem.



Sorry - should have made it clear, both were measured at the battery; so I'm seeing 14.1v at the battery when the engine is on. Did you solve your strange high resistance issue??

[TheMatador]

Looking very much like the radio and/or amp is the culprit. I removed both the fuses (1 & 2 in the black holder next to the jack in the boot) and battery was fine this morning. I have replaced them and driven the car to reset all the warning lights, then turned off the radio manually before switching off the engine so we'll see what happens. If that works the next step is to not turn it off manually and see if it shuts itself down.

Pulling all these fuses has basically reset everything in the car and I'm hoping that the old computer magic of turning it off and turning it on again will have solved it;)

[TheMatador]

All fine now it seems! Fully charging the (new) battery outside the car and pulling all the fuses out for anything to do with MMI/radio/dash/nav seemed to sort it.

Just one big reboot basically! Battery at 100% all the time now and no starting issues:)

Old battery was definitely gone as it doesn't hold a charge so I don't know if the constant current management was causing additional drain. Can't code the new battery to the car as there are very few options but it makes no difference. Basically 13v = 100% and that's all the car knows.

Thanks for your help guys


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rjsdavis]

Looking very much like the radio and/or amp is the culprit. I removed both the fuses (1 & 2 in the black holder next to the jack in the boot) and battery was fine this morning. I have replaced them and driven the car to reset all the warning lights, then turned off the radio manually before switching off the engine so we'll see what happens. If that works the next step is to not turn it off manually and see if it shuts itself down.

Pulling all these fuses has basically reset everything in the car and I'm hoping that the old computer magic of turning it off and turning it on again will have solved it;)

Sorry to raise up this old thread from the dead - but I have a feeling that I'm having the exact same issue as you!

Which fuses did you pull to do the "in effect" full reboot of the electronic/MMI systems in the car? I'd like to do the same, and see if this works for me....

[Nard666]

Hi,

I would think as others have pointed out that your battery is a bit discharged, so if you can charge it directly or via a long run that is the place to start.

Like others, I had issues with my battery going flat when I first got the car. Long story short it was a combo of something draining it, and the battery manager not being coded.

Next time you are in VCDS (or pull up a recent log if you saved it) check module 61 to ensure it has coding, initially mine was like this for some reason, the zeros meaning no coding.

Address 61: Battery Regul. Labels: 4F0-910-181.lbl
Part No SW: 4F0 910 181 E HW: 4F0 915 181 A
Component: ENERGIEMANAGER H12 0470
Revision: 00000000 Serial number: 00000000013427
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 2341EBBF9B45


Component: von
Coding: 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000


No fault code found.

Hi what was causing your powerdrain? My battery keeps running flat lasts just under a year everytime and turns slowly, i think from power being directed elsewhere, my coding for my battery regulator seems fine,was wondering if there's a common source of powerdrain? Or somewhere for me to start my search

[B5NUT]

Yes the AMP or Radio module is a common battery drain

[Nard666]

Yes the AMP or Radio module is a common battery drain

Ah yes i think someone advised me this may be a possible cause before but it was a while ago and my memory is terrible, what's the best way to find out if these modules are the powerdrain? Or if not how to locate where else it could be, also where are these modules
Thank you

[B5NUT]

In the boot on the left hand side. Remember if you unplug them the MMI system will not work again until they are plugged back in.

[Nard666]

In the boot on the left hand side. Remember if you unplug them the MMI system will not work again until they are plugged back in.

Are they labelled or coded or anything like that? Ok no worries, what's the best way to tell if, just seeing what makes a difference the next morning? Or is there another way of testing only my battery is brand new i just put it on (I've had this problem since I bought the car) but the batteries do last a year so it's kind of a slow trickle

[B5NUT]

They look like this for saloon & Avant. It's the top two modules that have the issue. Unplug them both and see if the is still there.
http://www.navitechnik.pl/galeria/piwigo/upload/2015/05/14/20150514145023-0b9ee457.jpg

[Nard666]

They look like this for saloon & Avant. It's the top two modules that have the issue. Unplug them both and see if the is still there.
http://www.navitechnik.pl/galeria/piwigo/upload/2015/05/14/20150514145023-0b9ee457.jpg

Ah ok yeah I'm with you now that's great thanks alot mate, I will let you know how I get on

[rjsdavis]

Hi what was causing your powerdrain? My battery keeps running flat lasts just under a year everytime and turns slowly, i think from power being directed elsewhere, my coding for my battery regulator seems fine,was wondering if there's a common source of powerdrain? Or somewhere for me to start my search

From doing a VCDS scan, I can see that the old (original) battery data is still sitting there, which was probably from new. Is it important/significant to change/update this information after the new battery was fitted?

Am quite happy to do it - but honestly, not sure how to... presume I can do with VCDS somehow?

This is what is being reported at the moment:

Address 61: Battery Regul. Labels: 4F0-910-181.lbl
Part No SW: 4F0 910 181 E HW: 4F0 915 181 A
Component: J0644 BEM H12 0590
Revision: 00000000 Serial number: 00000000079138
Shop #: WSC 00581 210 58432
VCID: 234553E0E2A30559D4-8076


Subsystem 1 - Part No: 4F0 915 105 D
Component: von VA0 2705210153
Coding: 344630393135313035442056413032373035323130313533
Shop #: WSC 00000 512 00290


1 Fault Found:
02256 - Quiescent Current
001 - Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00110001
Fault Priority: 7
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 90
Mileage: 102468 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2017.09.16
Time: 11:20:52

[Nard666]

From doing a VCDS scan, I can see that the old (original) battery data is still sitting there, which was probably from new. Is it important/significant to change/update this information after the new battery was fitted?

Am quite happy to do it - but honestly, not sure how to... presume I can do with VCDS somehow?

This is what is being reported at the moment:

Address 61: Battery Regul. Labels: 4F0-910-181.lbl
Part No SW: 4F0 910 181 E HW: 4F0 915 181 A
Component: J0644 BEM H12 0590
Revision: 00000000 Serial number: 00000000079138
Shop #: WSC 00581 210 58432
VCID: 234553E0E2A30559D4-8076


Subsystem 1 - Part No: 4F0 915 105 D
Component: von VA0 2705210153
Coding: 344630393135313035442056413032373035323130313533
Shop #: WSC 00000 512 00290


1 Fault Found:
02256 - Quiescent Current
001 - Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00110001
Fault Priority: 7
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 90
Mileage: 102468 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2017.09.16
Time: 11:20:52

Hi you want to know if it's important to clear the old faults? I'm not sure but I don't think so as when I originally first changed my battery i didn't clear the faults but it doesn't hurt to clear them anyway if you have vcds? If you have vcds there's a clear all faults button (i think it actually says clear all dtc's but i can't remember how they word it as I'm very new to vcds)

[rjsdavis]

Hi you want to know if it's important to clear the old faults?

Nope - I KNOW that's VERY important!

I want to know if it's important to reprogram Module 61 with the new battery data, after the battery was changed... Some seem to think that it should be done as a matter of course when the battery is changed. Others seem to think it's entirely irrelevant. Either way, I don't know how to do it within VCDS yet anyway..

[Nard666]

Nope - I KNOW that's VERY important!

I want to know if it's important to reprogram Module 61 with the new battery data, after the battery was changed... Some seem to think that it should be done as a matter of course when the battery is changed. Others seem to think it's entirely irrelevant. Either way, I don't know how to do it within VCDS yet anyway..

Well the side of things I thought you meant didn't seem to cause me any problems as for coding it to the car yeah i have heard mixed feelings to that too I think in most cases it will pick it up but to be on the safe side do it anyway? There's a ross-tech video on YouTube just type in battery coding using vcds -ross-tech and it should come up i stumbled across by another thread but it was under that although I think it also said wiki-how afterwards but it would pick it from that anyway

[Nard666]

New batteries can be faulty, so take it back to the and get it checked. Also it could be an alternator fault, my alternator finally packed up this week, just waiting ton some nicer weather to change it.
Hi I've been reading through your thread on the several jobs you did on one of your motors the one where you had to change the battery and you included a link on the battery meter always showing 10 percent this was interesting as although I'm not sure mine says 10 percent (will check in the morning) it always says the same reading it's never moved in the link it says about checking the software of the battery energy manager using vcds is this just the software version for the whole car or is it just for the bem and if so where exactly am i looking? I know my software in the car is an old version maybe this is causing my battery drain, also it says in the link that update can't be done by vcds, is this true? Sorry I'm very very new to vcds so don't really understand it yet, here's my last readout from my battery regulator in case this helps?
Address 61: battery regulator labels:4fo-910-181.lbl
Part no SW:4fo 910 181 e HW:4fo 915 181 a
Component :jo644bem h12 0590
Revision :00000000. Serial number :00000000018373
Shop#:WSC 00501 210 07542
VCID :234589a9e2046b5af4-8076

Subsystem 1-part no:4fo 915 105 d
Component :von va0 2601302263
Coding 344630393135313035442056413032363031333032323633
Shop#:wsc00000 384 00290
No fault code found

[B5NUT]

Unfortunately I cannot find a link to the web site, and cannot remember what the correct software version should be.

The Battery monitor in the MMI software is just about useless, so don't trust it. The battery monitor was removed from later versions of the MMI system.

[Nard666]

Unfortunately I cannot find a link to the web site, and cannot remember what the correct software version should be.

The Battery monitor in the MMI software is just about useless, so don't trust it. The battery monitor was removed from later versions of the MMI system.

Its on your post from 2014 when you just a car from someone in your family, the link is just underneath the picture of your battery in the boot the link sent me to a page that seems to be under a8 or audiresources i did take a screenshot but don't know how to add it to this comment it said that it was a common fault that the battery meters showed 10 percent all the time but it said it said in most cases it didn't drain the battery but wondering if I am one of the unlucky few and i have this problem, it said the software for the bem should be updated to be: 0490 for the a6 or 0590 for the a8 and gave a part number for the update discs,they all tend to be untrustworthy then? I thought it was just mine, the only time it has ever changed is when I changed the battery the other day (I'm on my 3Rd or 4th but it's only this time the meter has changed and I think it's dropped back down again)

[rjsdavis]

There's a ross-tech video on YouTube just type in battery coding using vcds -ross-tech and it should come up i stumbled across by another thread but it was under that although I think it also said wiki-how afterwards but it would pick it from that anyway

Thanks for that video tip... I'll seek that out tomorrow!

BTW - how do you get this dang battery condition monitor screen to appear in MMI? I don't have it in my list of options within the "CAR" MMI screen...

[Nard666]

Thanks for that video tip... I'll seek that out tomorrow!

BTW - how do you get this dang battery condition monitor screen to appear in MMI? I don't have it in my list of options within the "CAR" MMI screen...
No worries, yeah mine was already on there and within the options for the car but you can do it with vcds, i don't know the code to add it but theirs a thread for it i will tell you how to find it..... Go to the forums page, you have to click on the audi section and then click a6 then a6 c6 and it's down as a sticky on that page it will say something like vcds changes, face-lift and pre face-lift click on that thread and it's on there with some other interesting changes you can do

[rjsdavis]

you have to click on the audi section and then click a6 then a6 c6 and it's down as a sticky on that page it will say something like vcds changes, face-lift and pre face-lift click on that thread and it's on there with some other interesting changes you can do

Once again - thank you for another helpful tip!

[Nard666]

Once again - thank you for another helpful tip!

No problem at all

[Nard666]

Once again - thank you for another helpful tip!
Also there is a vcds section in amongst the forums, in case you need any further help or have any questions

[rjsdavis]

I've eventually got around to looking at this again - run into another small glitch.

I tracked down the Battery Coding Wiki and attempted to do this on the car this afternoon...

I had bought the correct battery from TPS - which was a Yuasa YBX5020 (900A), but I can't program it into the car using VCDS in Module 61 (Battery Regulation).

I found the useful coding video on Ross-Wiki, but the Yuasa battery doesn't have a BEM code at all. Just the model number on the top, and the serial number on the side. VCDS rejects the "YBX5020" as it states that it requires a "10/11 digit alphanumeric code". Clearly, mine is only 7 characters.

My serial number is 10 characters, but because the part/model number is too short - it wouldn't have it. Yuasa isn't in the drop-down list of battery manufacturer's either - just Varta / Excel and a few others which I'd never heard of. TPS (VW) no longer sell Varta batteries!

In the end, I cancelled the code change, and tried changing the serial number of the existing (old) Varta battery that I'd removed (with gen Audi part number) up by one digit on the last digit and saved with "default" settings for the modules. Went for a test run, and all seems ok at the moment - a rescan after the test drive didn't throw up anything... Only time will tell if the battery coding issue will help with the battery drain issues that I continue to experience. My gut tells me that it won't make any difference. Is there anything else that I can do to do a proper or better job of battery coding within VCDS?

[Nard666]

I've eventually got around to looking at this again - run into another small glitch.

I tracked down the Battery Coding Wiki and attempted to do this on the car this afternoon...

I had bought the correct battery from TPS - which was a Yuasa YBX5020 (900A), but I can't program it into the car using VCDS in Module 61 (Battery Regulation).

I found the useful coding video on Ross-Wiki, but the Yuasa battery doesn't have a BEM code at all. Just the model number on the top, and the serial number on the side. VCDS rejects the "YBX5020" as it states that it requires a "10/11 digit alphanumeric code". Clearly, mine is only 7 characters.

My serial number is 10 characters, but because the part/model number is too short - it wouldn't have it. Yuasa isn't in the drop-down list of battery manufacturer's either - just Varta / Excel and a few others which I'd never heard of. TPS (VW) no longer sell Varta batteries!

In the end, I cancelled the code change, and tried changing the serial number of the existing (old) Varta battery that I'd removed (with gen Audi part number) up by one digit on the last digit and saved with "default" settings for the modules. Went for a test run, and all seems ok at the moment - a rescan after the test drive didn't throw up anything... Only time will tell if the battery coding issue will help with the battery drain issues that I continue to experience. My gut tells me that it won't make any difference. Is there anything else that I can do to do a proper or better job of battery coding within VCDS?

I'm not too sure how you would go about it with a yuasa,, if you had a originally fitted manufacturers battery I would say maybe use the same and change serial number by one or look up the original part number (or closest to it as possible) and use the serial number you have or just alter last digit,

[Nard666]

I'm not too sure how you would go about it with a yuasa,, if you had a originally fitted manufacturers battery I would say maybe use the same and change serial number by one or look up the original part number (or closest to it as possible) and use the serial number you have or just alter last digit,

When you updated your software how did you get a charge to the car to deal with it being a long process? Did you connect your charger to the jump terminals under the bonnet? Or direct to battery?

[rjsdavis]

This is the problem - as far as TPS (VAG) are concerned. Yuasa IS now the manufacturer fitted battery....

As said, I left the original Varta part number as it was, and simply changed the serial number up by a single digit. It's possible, that this has had an effect, as thus far, I've not had the car fail to start, sound laboured at start-up or given me a low-battery warning on the dash.

I've also had a bulb warning ping throw up nearly all of the time now - VCDS reports it has the small parking bulb beside the dipped headlight. By chance, I got to starting to turn the lights OFF, instead of leaving the switch on AUTO as I always have done since owning it. I'm not sure if this helping (or not making any difference), but between the battery serial code change, and turning the lights fully to OFF, the car does seem to be holding charge better. However, not nearly enough time has passed yet to see if the problem has been cured. I've also not been able to leave the car to sit for more than 24 consecutive hours yet either, so hopefully over Christmas, will be a true test of the speed of battery drain/discharge....

[Nard666]

This is the problem - as far as TPS (VAG) are concerned. Yuasa IS now the manufacturer fitted battery....

As said, I left the original Varta part number as it was, and simply changed the serial number up by a single digit. It's possible, that this has had an effect, as thus far, I've not had the car fail to start, sound laboured at start-up or given me a low-battery warning on the dash.

I've also had a bulb warning ping throw up nearly all of the time now - VCDS reports it has the small parking bulb beside the dipped headlight. By chance, I got to starting to turn the lights OFF, instead of leaving the switch on AUTO as I always have done since owning it. I'm not sure if this helping (or not making any difference), but between the battery serial code change, and turning the lights fully to OFF, the car does seem to be holding charge better. However, not nearly enough time has passed yet to see if the problem has been cured. I've also not been able to leave the car to sit for more than 24 consecutive hours yet either, so hopefully over Christmas, will be a true test of the speed of battery drain/discharge....

Yes but it wasn't when your car was made so personally I would have gone with a Varta or Bosch as they are made in same factory by the same people, I've read that you use the first ten digits of the barcode as a serial number on a Bosch battery apparently on recommendations from Bosch, maybe you would do the same on a yuasa, are you sure the 10 digits on the side of it are the serial number and not the part number making the barcode the serial number? The manufacturers code would be different on a yuasa compared to the Varta originally fitted so that shouldn't really make it recognise the battery but if it's working...... Well i hope it works for you and please do keep us informed on the progress as for auto lights I've kept to switching mine on manually and have for a while and have only noticed a slight difference if anything, as for the bulb have you checked it, is it working fine? And did you run a charge to your car when updating software via the jump points underneath the bonnet? Or directly to the battery? (I'm assuming jump points but want to make sure)

[rjsdavis]

Yes but it wasn't when your car was made so personally I would have gone with a Varta or Bosch as they are made in same factory by the same people, I've read that you use the first ten digits of the barcode as a serial number on a Bosch battery apparently on recommendations from Bosch, maybe you would do the same on a yuasa, are you sure the 10 digits on the side of it are the serial number and not the part number making the barcode the serial number? The manufacturers code would be different on a yuasa compared to the Varta originally fitted so that shouldn't really make it recognise the battery but if it's working......

I know - but as this is all TPS/Audi/VW now sell (Yuasa), it has to be ok - right? No-one (shops) seem to sell Bosch anymore, and only a few motor factors sell Varta. It's a lot easier to get Varta/Bosch online, but in the event of a claim, I'd rather have a local supplier with an invoice and someone I can speak to f2f if needed. Also, with the discounts that TPS do if you talk to them nicely, I got it way cheaper than I could have done anywhere else. It was a shade under 100 notes for a 900A battery.

The serial code, as far as I can see, is definitely the code (beside the bar-code) on the side of the battery casing. The manufacurer's "model" code, is emblazened in the artwork across the top of the battery itself, but all of this is moot anyway, as VCDS doesn't offer a Yuasa option anyway. It doesn't offer an "Other" battery manufacturer either. It seems to only allow 6 different makes, including Varta and Excel and a few others I've never heard of, so even if I had a 10-digit manufacturer's model number, I can't select (or manually input) the manufacturer (which you have to select) in any event. Anywho - it will have been standing on the driveway for about 48 hours in the afternoon, so I'm hoping she's going to spring into life and show me that battery charge retention is improving!


Well i hope it works for you and please do keep us informed on the progress as for auto lights I've kept to switching mine on manually and have for a while and have only noticed a slight difference if anything, as for the bulb have you checked it, is it working fine?

Will do - I can't tell if my battery improvement is down to VCDS battery coding tweak, or turning the lights fully off... or both? Annoyingly, the small OSF parking light seems to work just fine. I can almost guarantee to get a bulb failure warning on the centre dashboard display everytime I start the car. Turning the lights onto dipped will clear the warning, as the bulbs all work and come on! (***?!). When the lights are on (at night-time) I never get the bulb warning. Therefore, I assume the bulb must be iffy, might not be coming on "all" of the time, or might have a short - so it's going to get changed anyway, when I get around to yanking out the cluster. I'm kind of hoping that it's a shorting bulb, and that this was the source of the battery drain. It would be blooming nice if this solves it...


And did you run a charge to your car when updating software via the jump points underneath the bonnet? Or directly to the battery? (I'm assuming jump points but want to make sure)

Yes - I had a battery charger charging the battery whilst the two MMI updates were running, as I couldn't possibly have trusted the car not to have run out of juice whilst systems were on the car wasn't running! I only ever use the jump points to either trickle charge or boost start the car when it's needed it.

[Nard666]

I know - but as this is all TPS/Audi/VW now sell (Yuasa), it has to be ok - right? No-one (shops) seem to sell Bosch anymore, and only a few motor factors sell Varta. It's a lot easier to get Varta/Bosch online, but in the event of a claim, I'd rather have a local supplier with an invoice and someone I can speak to f2f if needed. Also, with the discounts that TPS do if you talk to them nicely, I got it way cheaper than I could have done anywhere else. It was a shade under 100 notes for a 900A battery.

The serial code, as far as I can see, is definitely the code (beside the bar-code) on the side of the battery casing. The manufacurer's "model" code, is emblazened in the artwork across the top of the battery itself, but all of this is moot anyway, as VCDS doesn't offer a Yuasa option anyway. It doesn't offer an "Other" battery manufacturer either. It seems to only allow 6 different makes, including Varta and Excel and a few others I've never heard of, so even if I had a 10-digit manufacturer's model number, I can't select (or manually input) the manufacturer (which you have to select) in any event. Anywho - it will have been standing on the driveway for about 48 hours in the afternoon, so I'm hoping she's going to spring into life and show me that battery charge retention is improving!



Will do - I can't tell if my battery improvement is down to VCDS battery coding tweak, or turning the lights fully off... or both? Annoyingly, the small OSF parking light seems to work just fine. I can almost guarantee to get a bulb failure warning on the centre dashboard display everytime I start the car. Turning the lights onto dipped will clear the warning, as the bulbs all work and come on! (***?!). When the lights are on (at night-time) I never get the bulb warning. Therefore, I assume the bulb must be iffy, might not be coming on "all" of the time, or might have a short - so it's going to get changed anyway, when I get around to yanking out the cluster. I'm kind of hoping that it's a shorting bulb, and that this was the source of the battery drain. It would be blooming nice if this solves it...



Yes - I had a battery charger charging the battery whilst the two MMI updates were running, as I couldn't possibly have trusted the car not to have run out of juice whilst systems were on the car wasn't running! I only ever use the jump points to either trickle charge or boost start the car when it's needed it.

Hi, sorry I'd forgotten to follow-up your last message due to Christmas but on the other hand this does allow time to ask the all important question....... How's the battery been holding up? I still have yet to do my update but my cars been off the road so I've been more concerned with the cause of those problems (it's ended up in a mechanics due to cold weather and no garage but i should have it back tomorrow and hopefully they will have sorted it leaving me with only my battery issues... Well mostly only that) will connect to a charger using jump terminals to update, thank you,your light problem could be bad connection or wiring if it's only an occasional fault? but yes I'd start with a fresh bulb and checking the connection is fine, as for the battery manufacturer, you have a battery so I'd continue with what you have for the time being at least, I get my batteries from Costco which are Bosch and also have a no quibble policy on refunds/exchanges if you do need another at somepoint this may be helpful to you if there's one local to you

[Joss73]

Hi all

New to this so forgive my ignorance - I have a 58 plate A6 and the MMI system has just stopped working, it comes on when I start the car and the CD plays (I can't change from the CD player as none of the buttons respond) but then turns off and the lights on the center console all come on and go off.

It keeps doing this while the car is running unless in between the MMI starting and shutdown I turn it on and off myself.

I have just had a service at my local garage (not Audi) and the following fault codes came up 02271,3,4,6,7 - my guy doesn't know what these mean but could the 2 things be linked and any advice on what I can do to resolve either of these issues would be very gratefully received.

Thanks

[rjsdavis]

Hi, sorry I'd forgotten to follow-up your last message due to Christmas but on the other hand this does allow time to ask the all important question....... How's the battery been holding up? I still have yet to do my update but my cars been off the road so I've been more concerned with the cause of those problems (it's ended up in a mechanics due to cold weather and no garage but i should have it back tomorrow and hopefully they will have sorted it leaving me with only my battery issues... Well mostly only that) will connect to a charger using jump terminals to update, thank you,your light problem could be bad connection or wiring if it's only an occasional fault? but yes I'd start with a fresh bulb and checking the connection is fine, as for the battery manufacturer, you have a battery so I'd continue with what you have for the time being at least, I get my batteries from Costco which are Bosch and also have a no quibble policy on refunds/exchanges if you do need another at somepoint this may be helpful to you if there's one local to you

Thanks for the post - as it happens, I've been trying to get around to sit down a write an update. Here goes...

So - I am largely back to where I started.

I'm still experiencing really, really bad battery drain/loss/energy retention. If anything, after about a week after the VCDS recoding, it seemed to get better and would actually hold onto enough charge to start the car upto 48 hours after it was last used - this is no longer the case. I am now experiencing such epic power loss, that it will be unstartable after just 4 hours or so! The other evening I came home at 2000GMT, and something told me that something wasn't quite right. I nipped out to try and start the car at midnight, and it was as dead as a do-do. I couldn't believe it.

So - since re-coding the new battery into VCDS, this is what I've changed and done since:

1 - I've had the battery tested. This achieved some mixed results....

This is what I managed to find when I got the car tested four times!

Mr Clutch

These guys ran batt/alternator test using a Ring tester. The results were:

Battery: Good

Rating: 900 EN
Measured: 835 EN
Volts: 12.34v
Int. R: 2.94 mOhm
Life: 90%

Starter Test

Result: Ok
Battery: 12.32v
Min Volts: 10.65v
Volt Drop: Normal

Alternator Test

Results: Good

At 2,000RPM:
Loading Test:
Average Charging Volts: 13.93v

So – overall, a pass with no faults. Fitter thought that this was likely that it meant that there was some sort of power drain given what’s happening with the car. Got a print-out from the machine.

Slightly concerned about the 835A measurement given that the battery is only 3 months old.

F1 Autocentre

This guy ran similar tests to Mr Clutch. Overall, whilst he didn’t print off the results, it was another pass, but he did comment that the alternator charging rate was a “little low”. I got one picture of his machine as he running the alternator load test, and it showed “13.42v – Normal” and was another pass.

Halfords – Branch

These guys came out with a Yuasa testing machine. All he was able to ascertain was the initial battery output volts, which was just over 12v and he was happy with. It wouldn’t go any further, and as it started to try to test the other functions, it would simply report “Error – Unstable Battery”. He tried it five or six times, but it wasn't going to run the test at all. He also fed me some nonsense that batteries always die in the boots of the cars, as they “don’t have the engine to keep them warm” (!) – When I asked how the battery was kept warm overnight in any engine bay on a cold winter’s night after the engine was shut down, he tried to spout off about “residual warmth” in the engine bay.

He went to check with his colleague, and they commented that this happens if there’s a draw from the battery whilst it’s trying to run the tests. They sent me round to the Halfords garage as they apparently had a better tester. Didn’t get a print out, but this seems to vaguely support the theory that I have a battery drain from somewhere…

Halfords – Garage

These guys were total tools. However, they did run a test. It was done behind closed doors and the manager simply popped back into the waiting area and commented that “you need a new battery”. I looked at him and told him that the battery was only 3 months old – and he simply shrugged his shoulders and said – here’s the print out, you can see it for yourself. The results of this test were:

Battery Test – REPLACE (!)

Volts: 12.00V
IR: 17.12 mOhms
Result: 158A(SAE) – (I presume this is a measured Ampage test against the rating of 900A???)
Healthy: 17% (!!!)

Starter Test – GOOD

Vmin 10.48V

Alternator Test – GOOD

Vmax: 13.61V

I got a printout of this test too.

So - I really wasn't sure what to make of this mixed set of results!


2 - I changed the parking light bulb.

What an effing rigmarole to get to and get this small bulb changed! Still, it's been done. I had been secretly hoping that the old bulb had been shorting and was causing the battery drain. The new bulb having gone in has stopped the bulb warnings on the dash, but the drain is as bad as ever. If not worse...

3 - I completely removed the Tunit remapping box from the engine.

Again, I had a secret hope that the electronic box might have been the battery drain culprit, as I had noticed that the green light does stay on for a good ten minutes or so after engine shut-down. I decided the run the engine as completely factory for the time being, and see what happens. The bad news is that this has made no difference to the loss of battery power. I'm still trying to work out whether this was or is a contibuting factor to my other new gem of a problem... Massive power loss linked to the EGR valve. (On a completely separate note, I am hoping that this is just a gunked up EGR that needs removal and a thorough clean with carb cleaner. Between this and the lack of battery power retention - my car is a total dog at the moment!)...

4 - I activated the battery display in MMI via VCDS.

This actually seemed to be a vaguely useful tool initially, as it seemed to broadly correctly display a % charge, that seemed to broadly correspond with what I was experiencing - i.e. when I got caught out with a battery that had drained and needed a jumpstart, it read 10% on the gauge. After I jump-started the car, and started driving, the gauge slowly moved up and eventually reached 100% again after I had been driving the car for a while - this seemed logical, correct and seemed to be displaying useful data.

However, after a full charge here at home, and the Ampmeter on the charger was reading no charge going in - it was just showing 10% on the gauge! The car would start (albeit with a low battery warning) However, get this, it now permanently reads just 10% - no matter what. No matter how much it has been charged... :confused:

Last night, I tried to start the car - it was el deado as usual. However, this time, and for the first time, I thought I'd look at the battery itself in the boot to see what that had to say. Being a Yuasa, it's got a small light window that's green when it's good, red when it needs to be charged, and black when it's dead. Despite the car being completely dead - so that all you get when you try to start it are the clicks and whatnot from the dashboard and not even MMI will start up - the battery light indicator was a firm green! ***?

So... yesterday I knew that I was going to need to use the car this morning. I left the charger on it all night at its lowest setting to trickle charge overnight. It's a beefy Clarke 320E, which has four different rates of charge setting. When I went out this morning, was staggered to see that the needle was sitting at more than 10A and it was charging away!! I attempted a start, and it did start, but gave me a "low battery" warning on the dash. It trundled round town with three restarts and I got a low battery warning on each of them, but it did start.

Also - I have just been charging the car (on trickle) for the last few hours as I need to use it in about 30 mins. I've been checking it regularly and whilst it was charging a bit, the Amp meter has mostly been zero for the majority of the afternoon, seemingly indicating that the battery was full and no further charge was going in. I just popped out to look at what the battery meter on MMI was showing - just 10% again (One bar).

You know the charge level is bad when the interior lights don't come on, and nor do the courtesy spotlights when you unlock and open the drivers door. When I go out to the car to drive it and neither of these happen - my heart is in my mouth as to whether she'll start or not! So, I just popped out just a minute ago to read the MMI screen again. Despite the charger having dropped to zero, as soon as the ignition key was turned to Stage 1 and the interior lights/spotlights and MMI came on and started booting up, the battery charger jumped straight upto 15A and was buzzing away like a good'un! (I also had yet another low battery warning on the dash too at Stage 1). I'm really confused now....

Just on the note of the battery - I wonder if it is? I was looking at the other day, and noticed that it had a "recharge by" date in 2016. This seems to me that the manufacturer is saying that; "if it's still on your shelf by this date, recharge it". Given that I bought it new just 4 months ago now - this seems to me to suggest that it had been sitting in TPS for a pretty long time before I came along and bought it. A contributing factor to battery possibly being bad? After all, I know full well from my other NiCd and NiMh batteries for other tools, that if you let the batteries discharge and leave them for too long - they're buggered and cannot be fixed, no matter how many charge/discharge cycles you put it through? Just a thought...


So, this is where I am. It kind of feels like the car will only start if it's got 98-100% of absolutely full battery power (which I know is utter nonsense) and that if it has 97% or less and it's not having it. I stress that's just how it seems... and is sort of based on the battery itself reporting to me that it's green/GOOD, and not requiring any charging (which I know from the charger just isn't correct). But, this has got me thinking... the fact that the car won't start, won't even turn over slowly (which I have had over the past few months on a few occasions when the battery has been low and it's attempted to start, but only turned over slowly and eventually didn't start and went back to the "I'm dead and all I'm going to do now is click in dashboard" state), but the battery is showing itself all of the time as GREEN/GOOD - does that mean that it's actually the battery that is dead/faulty?

I had mostly ruled this out as a likely possibility all of the way through this, but when the car is so flat that it won't start and the battery light reports green/good - this means the battery is possibly not working properly?

Before wandering into TPS with a possibly duff battery in hand asking for a warranty replacement - what else can I do to narrow it down? I've still got the original Audi/Varta battery sitting here, but this really was kaputo, so not really much use for anything as far as comparisons go. I'm still not remotely sure if I've got a ****** battery that has been faulty from the start, or a massive battery drain or other electrical issue that's been killing the new battery for the last four months since I installed it!!

[rjsdavis]

Hi all

New to this so forgive my ignorance - I have a 58 plate A6 and the MMI system has just stopped working, it comes on when I start the car and the CD plays (I can't change from the CD player as none of the buttons respond) but then turns off and the lights on the center console all come on and go off.

It keeps doing this while the car is running unless in between the MMI starting and shutdown I turn it on and off myself.

I have just had a service at my local garage (not Audi) and the following fault codes came up 02271,3,4,6,7 - my guy doesn't know what these mean but could the 2 things be linked and any advice on what I can do to resolve either of these issues would be very gratefully received.

Thanks

I don't recognise those fault codes - if the garage was using something like VCDS (or their universal equivalent like a SnapOn tool), it would provide details of the ECU module that had the fault, and the specific fault code (specific item) within the control module that was having a problem. For example, MMI problems can affect the Control Head Module, Central Electric Module, CAN Gateway module etc etc depending on what the actual problem is.

It will sound lame - but when this issue has cropped up, what happens when you force an MMI reboot using the buttons on the centre console? (as being distinctly different from just using the power on/off / volume button)

[inspectorman63]

So, to summarise; You have a new battery. You have changed the coding with VCDS; and updated the MMI software. You have re-enabled the battery meter, but not taken on board the advice that it's not any real use whatsoever. 2 of your three battery tests say its fine, and the third only really tells you it's discharged. Which is the symptom you have anyway.

It's not impossible you have bought a duff battery, but unlikely. You have removed a tuning box, and are now switching electrics off when you stop instead of leaving things on auto. But you still have a massive current drain.

Time for a competent auto electrician to track it down. With such a large drain it shouldn't take him long. Don't go to Halfords (who stopped being useful about 30 years ago). The episode of the charger only coming to life and charging once you put the key in points to something wrong - battery control module? - but I'm now guessing. Report back when it's fixed.

[Nard666]

I know - but as this is all TPS/Audi/VW now sell (Yuasa), it has to be ok - right? No-one (shops) seem to sell Bosch anymore, and only a few motor factors sell Varta. It's a lot easier to get Varta/Bosch online, but in the event of a claim, I'd rather have a local supplier with an invoice and someone I can speak to f2f if needed. Also, with the discounts that TPS do if you talk to them nicely, I got it way cheaper than I could have done anywhere else. It was a shade under 100 notes for a 900A battery.

The serial code, as far as I can see, is definitely the code (beside the bar-code) on the side of the battery casing. The manufacurer's "model" code, is emblazened in the artwork across the top of the battery itself, but all of this is moot anyway, as VCDS doesn't offer a Yuasa option anyway. It doesn't offer an "Other" battery manufacturer either. It seems to only allow 6 different makes, including Varta and Excel and a few others I've never heard of, so even if I had a 10-digit manufacturer's model number, I can't select (or manually input) the manufacturer (which you have to select) in any event. Anywho - it will have been standing on the driveway for about 48 hours in the afternoon, so I'm hoping she's going to spring into life and show me that battery charge retention is improving!



Will do - I can't tell if my battery improvement is down to VCDS battery coding tweak, or turning the lights fully off... or both? Annoyingly, the small OSF parking light seems to work just fine. I can almost guarantee to get a bulb failure warning on the centre dashboard display everytime I start the car. Turning the lights onto dipped will clear the warning, as the bulbs all work and come on! (***?!). When the lights are on (at night-time) I never get the bulb warning. Therefore, I assume the bulb must be iffy, might not be coming on "all" of the time, or might have a short - so it's going to get changed anyway, when I get around to yanking out the cluster. I'm kind of hoping that it's a shorting bulb, and that this was the source of the battery drain. It would be blooming nice if this solves it...



Yes - I had a battery charger charging the battery whilst the two MMI updates were running, as I couldn't possibly have trusted the car not to have run out of juice whilst systems were on the car wasn't running! I only ever use the jump points to either trickle charge or boost start the car when it's needed it.

???????

[rjsdavis]

Ok - so some progress here...

I eventually managed to persuade my mechanic friend to give me some his private time. He looked at it on Saturday.

He put an ampclamp on the battery in the boot, and we looked at it whilst the car was running, whilst the car was off, and moved it so that we could shut the car down and lock it and still read it whilst the everything was shut down.

It was 12.2v (from memory) whilst the car was off
It was 14.4v (from memory) whilst the car was running
It was 0.2v (from memory whilst the car locked up and everything shut off.

This seems to show that the battery was at the right voltage and when it was off. Was being charged ok when it was running. Didn't have a draw of significance (over and above the ECU/alarm etc) when the car was locked up. Conclusion? He thought that one of the cells in the battery was probably duff, and advised me to return it and get it changed. When he also saw the "recharge by" date on the side of the unit, which was "02/2016" - which is a clear 18 months before I bought it, we both suspected that it had been sitting on a shelf for a fair old while and possibly discharged itself and had become damaged - that, or it was just very unlucky and a faulty battery from the off...

Any faults in the logic? I couldn't see any...

EGR valve and throttle body were cleaned out and it made the effing car worse. Broke down on a hill on the way home as it just couldn't muster enough power to make it up it! :aargh4: Wife rescued me in the Land Rover and we had to tow the bugger home!

[inspectorman63]

TPS might give you a new battery. If they use the same testers as F1 and Mr Clutch they won't. Measuring voltages at the battery terminals when the battery is connected in a modern car is an inexact science and does no more than give you a vague clue. A duff cell would drop the "car off"* voltage to 10.5 or below. Battery current draws (which is what is flattening your battery, maybe) are measured in Amps and I see no reading of amps in your latest post.

* not off at all. Several boxes are still talking to each other.

[Rob69]

Just to chip in my tuppence worth, even if that battery was ok when you fitted it it is likely damaged now due to the number of discharge cycles it seems to have gone through. 12.2v at standstill is a bit low in my opinion, I was working on a 15 year old renault yesterday with an oldish looking battery sitting at 12.7v , you seem to have a large current draw doing the initial battery discharges then the battery has never recovered. Has anyone put an ammeter in line with the + lead to look for current draw? I dont know what engine you have, presuming tdi, but if you are having throttle body trouble as well, i've had one that continued to operate with engine off and key out, that pulled my battery down. Cleaning made no difference as the gears inside get worn. I like the one about the battery getting cold in the boot! Jeez.

[rjsdavis]

TPS might give you a new battery. If they use the same testers as F1 and Mr Clutch they won't. Measuring voltages at the battery terminals when the battery is connected in a modern car is an inexact science and does no more than give you a vague clue. A duff cell would drop the "car off"* voltage to 10.5 or below. Battery current draws (which is what is flattening your battery, maybe) are measured in Amps and I see no reading of amps in your latest post.

* not off at all. Several boxes are still talking to each other.

Hi Inspectorman

Thanks for the post - TPS received the battery this evening, and tested it there and then. It was "unserviceable" on their equipment, despite the battery itself reporting that all was well and the green light was glowing for "ok". It's starting to look more and more like it was the effing brand new battery all along. Aaarrrrrrrrrrfgggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhh. Can't believe how much time I've spent on it based on it NOT being the brand new bloody battery.

I didn't quite understand the sentence about "I see no reading of amps in your latest post" - this was the 0.2A (very small draw) that the ampclamp was registering whilst still attached to the battery whilst the car was completely shut down and locked up. Mechanic this was fine for between 0.2A and about 0.6A to cover the systems that do continue to run when the car is locked. Are you referring to something else?

[rjsdavis]

Just to chip in my tuppence worth, even if that battery was ok when you fitted it it is likely damaged now due to the number of discharge cycles it seems to have gone through. 12.2v at standstill is a bit low in my opinion, I was working on a 15 year old renault yesterday with an oldish looking battery sitting at 12.7v , you seem to have a large current draw doing the initial battery discharges then the battery has never recovered. Has anyone put an ammeter in line with the + lead to look for current draw? I dont know what engine you have, presuming tdi, but if you are having throttle body trouble as well, i've had one that continued to operate with engine off and key out, that pulled my battery down. Cleaning made no difference as the gears inside get worn. I like the one about the battery getting cold in the boot! Jeez.

Hello Rob

Thanks for this - I've got a 2007 A6 C6 2.0 TDI Avant. It had occurred to me also that the battery being drawn down to discharged would in itself damage the battery - but are you suggesting that this is a self-perpetuating cycle, where a faulty battery (let's assume it is and has a duff cell), which isn't working properly and discharging itself rapidly, which, over time and many discharge cycles has caused further damage to the battery - which will continue to just worse as the discharge cycles increase?

Or are you suggesting that some other fault in some other electrical system is still at fault here, and has effectively killed the battery over the last six months?

I am having big problems with EGR and Throttle Body at the moment. Have presently got the following engine faults (the only faults that the car is reporting):

001027 - EGR Valve (N18)
P0403 - 000 - Malfunction - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 82
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 211394 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2018.01.02
Time: 22:25:09


Freeze Frame:
RPM: 882 /min
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Duty Cycle: 84.4 %
Voltage: 13.60 V
Mass Air / Rev.: 380.0 mg/str
Duty Cycle: 0.0 %
Bin. Bits: 00000000


000257 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70)
P0101 - 000 - Implausible Signal
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 82
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 211394 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2018.01.02
Time: 22:25:09


000665 - Boost Pressure Regulation
P0299 - 000 - Control Range Not Reached - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00110000
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 10
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 211421 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2018.01.03
Time: 18:33:31


Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2184 /min
Speed: 51.0 km/h
Load: 62.4 %
Voltage: 13.60 V
Bin. Bits: 00101000
Absolute Pres.: 2223.6 mbar
Absolute Pres.: 1774.8 mbar


Readiness: 1 3 0 0 0

Mechanic said that the EGR is causing the turbo pressure fault, as the EGR valve isn't working properly. He suspects that the valve is staying shut (or open and not shutting - can't remember exactly which way round it was), when it should close and this prevented the turbo from building up pressure. This made sense to me.

So, we removed both the EGR and throttle body to clean them out and hoped that this would cure them. It didn't - and it made the engine run considerably worse and with no hint at all of anything other no turbo pressure whatsoever, limited revs (when the car was in gear) which seems to be a limp-mode, and some rough sounding engine noises if you attempted to accelerate at anything more than HGV pull away speed (not that it has much more than HGV speed in all conditions). The car actually broke down on the way home on a relatively steep hill as even when changing down to first and at 2,500-3,000 revs, it couldn't muster enough power to eek up the hill. Trying pull away from standstill up the incline was just impossible and in the end the Police rocked up, halted the traffic and I had to freewheel backwards back down the hill on the wrong side just to get clear of the road I was completely blocking up. She can just about drive along on the flat, but nothing uphill at all. In the end I parked her up and the missus came out in the Disco and we just towed her home.

She's sitting on the driveway now, and I've temporarily popped the old, original factory fit battery that I pulled out last year, just to have something in the car to try and keep low power in the systems. I tried to start her this evening, and she really wasn't having any of it at all, coughing and spluttering to a stop and just dying. I don't think the virtually kaput battery that is in there temporarily is doing her any favours, so I'll leave that until I get the new battery later this week.

Current thoughts are to just bite the bullet and get a new EGR and throttle body. I don't think there's anything else we can do, and I don't think anything else is at fault at the moment. I've driven some 10-12k miles in her since I acquired her, and there's been no hint of an EGR issue until the last few weeks.

I'm still wondering if the Tunit box made any contribution to this issue. Whilst that proved not be the source of any electrical draw / battery drain, I can't help wondering if the changes that it made to the timing/fueling has in some way contributed to the EGR/Throttle issue that I am currently fixing? Any thoughts? The Tunit box certainly works - noticeable more power and noticeable more economy. I can't help but wonder all the same..

With your post - are you saying that the throttle body on your Renault was at fault and continuing to draw power from the battery?

Tell me about it iro of the battery in the boot story. I guess they'll employ anyone at Halfords these days to just talk cobblers and try and sell you stuff you just don't need. He was an idiot.

[inspectorman63]

Post 56 writes"It was 0.2v (from memory whilst the car locked up and everything shut off."

[Rob69]

The renault was a camper coversion i've been working on (no throttle body, just old school diesel lump) and checking voltages to see the volt sensitive relay operating to charge the leisure battery, thats a side story though. The throttle body i had trouble with was on a 54 plate 1.9 touran pdtdi. IIRC Some of The 2 litre pd engines have the same flap / anti shudder valve upstream of the egr. I dont know if your engine has the electric or vacuum egr, if it has the n18 solenoid i suspect it is vacuum. I found the motor and gear mechanism in the throttle body had failed and was operating erratically even with the key out of ignition, it eventually failed closed and stalled the engine. It never threw a fault code of its own, just egr related code. I ve since had to replace another one of these on another 1.9, they seem to fail fairly regular, mine were at areound 100k and 70k.

[rjsdavis]

Post 56 writes"It was 0.2v (from memory whilst the car locked up and everything shut off."

Yes - exactly. Am I missing something here?

[rjsdavis]

The renault was a camper coversion i've been working on (no throttle body, just old school diesel lump) and checking voltages to see the volt sensitive relay operating to charge the leisure battery, thats a side story though. The throttle body i had trouble with was on a 54 plate 1.9 touran pdtdi. IIRC Some of The 2 litre pd engines have the same flap / anti shudder valve upstream of the egr. I dont know if your engine has the electric or vacuum egr, if it has the n18 solenoid i suspect it is vacuum. I found the motor and gear mechanism in the throttle body had failed and was operating erratically even with the key out of ignition, it eventually failed closed and stalled the engine. It never threw a fault code of its own, just egr related code. I ve since had to replace another one of these on another 1.9, they seem to fail fairly regular, mine were at areound 100k and 70k.

Thanks Rob

This is the throttle body for my car - I am assuming it is electric rather than vacuum as it has a plug on it?

NEW GENUINE VDO A2C59511698 THROTTLE BODY WHOLESALE PRICE SALE | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-GENUINE-VDO-A2C59511698-THROTTLE-BODY-WHOLESALE-PRICE-SALE-/171822865332?hash=item280170dbb4)

This is the EGR...

VDO 408-275-002-001Z EGR EXHAUST GAS RECIRCULATION VALVE AUDI SALE | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VDO-408-275-002-001Z-EGR-EXHAUST-GAS-RECIRCULATION-VALVE-AUDI-SALE-/161729978635?hash=item25a7dba10b)

Although there is no power in the car, it never stalls and dies (It only stalled and died last night as I tried to start her just to see what happens as she's sitting on the driveway with the old factory fit battery that was already kaput and has been sitting in the garage for the last six months doing absolutely nothing - the battery will be even more dead then it was when I took it out because it was dead!). It just doesn't drive properly and limps along in a sort of permanent and severe limp home mode. It won't rev past 3,000 RPM, and won't drive faster than 50mph in 4th. 5th and 6th are pretty much redundant at the moment, as the revs are too low to make them practical to use.

Also, when in low revs and from pullaway, she is smoking like nothing else. Huge plumes of grey smoke bilging out of the exhausts when you pull away, or if you try to accelerate from less than 2,000 RPM. Particularly if you're trying to get up a hill (before she lost all power and won't get up a hill at all now!), if you dropped to second to accelerate up a relatively steep hill at say 20mph, she'd pour out smoke for a good 10-15 seconds before you'd managed to get upto about 2,500 revs and beyond. Your natural instinct is to change up, and if you do, she'll have no guts and start decelerating again, so you'd have to drop back to 2nd again - and then more grey smoke. It's so bad I can see cars backing off behind me and flashing me etc.

[inspectorman63]

Yes - exactly. Am I missing something here?


V is volts. A is amps.

[rjsdavis]

Ok - I see what you're saying now.

All I was saying is that there was a small draw when the car was off - which mechanic thought was in line with what he'd expect when the car was off and shut down.

[Joss73]

Hi

Thanks for you response rjsdavis

I have no idea what my mechanic used to and all he gave me was a list of codes. I may not have listed these accurately so just in case this is what he gave me:

Codes

02272
02273
02274
02276
02277

Static (Quiescent) Current Stage 2-3-4-6-7

I have tried forcing the shutdown but it seems none of the buttons on the centre console are working.

I have even tried loading the CD and can use the buttons on the steering wheel to move to the last track on the disc before this one, so it loads the next disc but it isn't picking this disc up and just jumps a disc.

[Nard666]

Hi

Thanks for you response rjsdavis

I have no idea what my mechanic used to and all he gave me was a list of codes. I may not have listed these accurately so just in case this is what he gave me:

Codes

02272
02273
02274
02276
02277

Static (Quiescent) Current Stage 2-3-4-6-7

I have tried forcing the shutdown but it seems none of the buttons on the centre console are working.

I have even tried loading the CD and can use the buttons on the steering wheel to move to the last track on the disc before this one, so it loads the next disc but it isn't picking this disc up and just jumps a disc.

Not sure what those codes are, have you tried googling them?the stages are usually low battery /power, you may be better off going to the vcds map on here and requesting someones help who has vcds they will do so for beer money, your dash problems may be due to the control module in the dash being damaged? Have you been checking your scuttle panel? They fill with water if blocked and water can run behind the dash drivers side and damage the control module or passenger side it often damages other control modules in the passenger footwell

[Nard666]

Thanks Rob

This is the throttle body for my car - I am assuming it is electric rather than vacuum as it has a plug on it?

NEW GENUINE VDO A2C59511698 THROTTLE BODY WHOLESALE PRICE SALE | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-GENUINE-VDO-A2C59511698-THROTTLE-BODY-WHOLESALE-PRICE-SALE-/171822865332?hash=item280170dbb4)

This is the EGR...

VDO 408-275-002-001Z EGR EXHAUST GAS RECIRCULATION VALVE AUDI SALE | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VDO-408-275-002-001Z-EGR-EXHAUST-GAS-RECIRCULATION-VALVE-AUDI-SALE-/161729978635?hash=item25a7dba10b)

Although there is no power in the car, it never stalls and dies (It only stalled and died last night as I tried to start her just to see what happens as she's sitting on the driveway with the old factory fit battery that was already kaput and has been sitting in the garage for the last six months doing absolutely nothing - the battery will be even more dead then it was when I took it out because it was dead!). It just doesn't drive properly and limps along in a sort of permanent and severe limp home mode. It won't rev past 3,000 RPM, and won't drive faster than 50mph in 4th. 5th and 6th are pretty much redundant at the moment, as the revs are too low to make them practical to use.

Also, when in low revs and from pullaway, she is smoking like nothing else. Huge plumes of grey smoke bilging out of the exhausts when you pull away, or if you try to accelerate from less than 2,000 RPM. Particularly if you're trying to get up a hill (before she lost all power and won't get up a hill at all now!), if you dropped to second to accelerate up a relatively steep hill at say 20mph, she'd pour out smoke for a good 10-15 seconds before you'd managed to get upto about 2,500 revs and beyond. Your natural instinct is to change up, and if you do, she'll have no guts and start decelerating again, so you'd have to drop back to 2nd again - and then more grey smoke. It's so bad I can see cars backing off behind me and flashing me etc.
Your report shows a mass air flow sensor fault if i remember right? Did you clean that (they often just need cleaning) unlikely to have anything to do with your power drain but can cause loss of power etc

[rjsdavis]

From a quick Google search - those codes relate to the Quiescent errors. In a nutshell, as far as I'm aware, Quiescent error codes relate to voltage irregularities. Basically, your battery appears to be flat or close to flat.

That means, either the battery is on the way out, or something else is wreaking havoc with your system (like mine). However, that said, it's starting to look like my 6 month old battery was in fact faulty. Have you had the battery tested? I'd take to as many chain garages as possible to get several tests done (you might find you ger varying results like I did) - people like Kwik Fit, Mr Clutch and Halfords all do free battery tests. That's where you need to start.

You can also read more on this thread:

Quiescent current stage 1 & 2 intermittent (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php/145971-Quiescent-current-stage-1-amp-2-intermittent)

Have you rebooted your MMI system? Even if the buttons on the centre console appear to be working, the reboot button sequence, done several times if need be (with a full battery), tends to make it reboot in the end. However, if your battery is low - it will affect lots of different systems in the car, including MMI.

[rjsdavis]

Your report shows a mass air flow sensor fault if i remember right? Did you clean that (they often just need cleaning) unlikely to have anything to do with your power drain but can cause loss of power etc

Oh yes - spent all of Saturday afternoon cleaning out the EGR and the Throttle Body. It made it much worse and I broke down driving home getting stuck on a steep hill unable to get up it!

[rjsdavis]

Jus to update - dropped back the battery to TPS on Monday afternoon. Had a call this morning agreeing that the battery was completely ****** and was a warranty replacement (still none the wiser as to whether the battery was ****** when I got it, or whether something in the car has killed it!)

However, they've told me that I need to wait 2-3 weeks for Yuasa to now test it themselves and re-confirm that it's kaput, before they'll hand me a new one! They've told that in the interim, the only thing I can do is buy another from them, and they'll refund me in full once Yuasa approve the warranty claim. Does that sound right to anyone, given that TPS agree it's a dud?

Brand new EGR valve and Throttle bodies will be fitted on Sunday morning. Hoping that by Sunday afternoon, I'll have a working car again!

[Nard666]

Jus to update - dropped back the battery to TPS on Monday afternoon. Had a call this morning agreeing that the battery was completely ****** and was a warranty replacement (still none the wiser as to whether the battery was ****** when I got it, or whether something in the car has killed it!)

However, they've told me that I need to wait 2-3 weeks for Yuasa to now test it themselves and re-confirm that it's kaput, before they'll hand me a new one! They've told that in the interim, the only thing I can do is buy another from them, and they'll refund me in full once Yuasa approve the warranty claim. Does that sound right to anyone, given that TPS agree it's a dud?

Brand new EGR valve and Throttle bodies will be fitted on Sunday morning. Hoping that by Sunday afternoon, I'll have a working car again!
I don't know it sounds like a load of hassle to me seeing as batteries do sit on shelfs for ages and sometimes are knackered when you buy them (that's why there's usually a warranty on them), I've took batteries back to a few places before and they have either just give me my money back or a new battery, when you cleaned your egr valve did you also clean the egr cooler? If you are already there anyway and doing it yourself? (I'm not sure) it would be worth doing

[Nard666]

Jus to update - dropped back the battery to TPS on Monday afternoon. Had a call this morning agreeing that the battery was completely ****** and was a warranty replacement (still none the wiser as to whether the battery was ****** when I got it, or whether something in the car has killed it!)

However, they've told me that I need to wait 2-3 weeks for Yuasa to now test it themselves and re-confirm that it's kaput, before they'll hand me a new one! They've told that in the interim, the only thing I can do is buy another from them, and they'll refund me in full once Yuasa approve the warranty claim. Does that sound right to anyone, given that TPS agree it's a dud?

Brand new EGR valve and Throttle bodies will be fitted on Sunday morning. Hoping that by Sunday afternoon, I'll have a working car again!
Also you say you have cleaned the maf sensor because you cleaned the egr valve and Throttle body but you know the maf isn't located within either of those right? (and I don't know how you went about cleaning those) the maf is located just after the airfilter box in the plastic housing before the intake to the turbo and also did you scan it again after you have cleaned them and driven? If not it would be worth it

[rjsdavis]

Also you say you have cleaned the maf sensor because you cleaned the egr valve and Throttle body but you know the maf isn't located within either of those right? (and I don't know how you went about cleaning those)...

Nope - I've never said that, as that would be virtually impossible to do!

I've changed the MAF. It still pings off a MAF fault code every week to two weeks or so which is cured by a VCDS reset, which is one of the reasons why I thought that all of the electrical gremlins were all interconnected. E.g. The Oil Temp Sensor that eventually fixed itself, the MAF fault code, the MMI issues (which has largely fixed itself and is now rare), the air-con faults (which also fixed themselves) etc etc...

The MAF fault code is:

000257 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70)
P0101 - 000 - Implausible Signal
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 82
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 211394 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2018.01.02
Time: 22:25:09

I had figured that the implausible signal, was also "electrically" connected, as "implausible signal" is something that comes up with most of the other electrical faults that eventually clear themselves, and seemed to be connected to the voltage irregularities - which ultimately appears to have been the battery. I hope.

[rjsdavis]

I don't know it sounds like a load of hassle to me seeing as batteries do sit on shelfs for ages and sometimes are knackered when you buy them (that's why there's usually a warranty on them), I've took batteries back to a few places before and they have either just give me my money back or a new battery, when you cleaned your egr valve did you also clean the egr cooler? If you are already there anyway and doing it yourself? (I'm not sure) it would be worth doing

Sadly, I've got no choice! I have to sit and wait, as I need them to provide a replacement under the warranty. Can't believe the effed up process.. you should see the stinker of an email that I've just fired off to the MD of Volkswagen UK and copying in various exec's at Yuasa!

We cleaned the EGR valve, and the throttle body. I think the EGR cooler is the block on the opposite (Drivers) side of the block to the EGR and Throttle body? If it's what I'm thinking of, then no - we didn't. However, the mechanic is back on Sunday and brand new VDO EGR valve and throttle body have just arrived which cost ££££'s :facepalm:

They're both going on on Sunday. This time, the inlet manifold is going to come off too, and we're going to give that a bloody good clean... also the pipe that feeds round the back of the block from the EGR to what I think is the EGR cooler - we'll clean that out too. I guess this time, the EGR cooler would make sense to whip and clean also. Sounds like I'll need several extra cans of carb cleaner!

I'm hoping that the two new parts are going to sort this out. I can feel that the throttle body butterfly valve feels "different" to the one on the used one that I was looking at on Saturday - i.e. stronger and whips back into it's natural "open" position with far more purpose and force than I remember the old one doing. I'm hopeful, that ultimately, these two parts (EGR/TB) were just knackered and old, and just need replacing...

[Nard666]

Nope - I've never said that, as that would be virtually impossible to do!

I've changed the MAF. It still pings off a MAF fault code every week to two weeks or so which is cured by a VCDS reset, which is one of the reasons why I thought that all of the electrical gremlins were all interconnected. E.g. The Oil Temp Sensor that eventually fixed itself, the MAF fault code, the MMI issues (which has largely fixed itself and is now rare), the air-con faults (which also fixed themselves) etc etc...

The MAF fault code is:

000257 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70)
P0101 - 000 - Implausible Signal
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 82
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 211394 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2018.01.02
Time: 22:25:09

I had figured that the implausible signal, was also "electrically" connected, as "implausible signal" is something that comes up with most of the other electrical faults that eventually clear themselves, and seemed to be connected to the voltage irregularities - which ultimately appears to have been the battery. I hope.

Erm yeah you did I asked if you had cleaned the maf your response was oh yes we cleaned the egr and Throttle body, its not impossible there's specialist cleaner available to do it and a couple of different ways to do it (Google would guide you as well as the cleaning product packaging) but if you have changed it then it doesn't matter and yes it does sound more electrical with implausible signal, yes exactly you have to wait it out if that's what they want to do but you are right sending a letter because it is bad practice for them to do what they are doing and considering as you bought from them so you had a easier time if there was a problem (as you told me)........ Rather than explain where the egr cooler is I will tell you to download /look at ssp 350 (Google volkswagon or audi ssp 350 and it will come up) from the sounds of what you are describing with the tube you are talking about the cyclonic oil separater, ssp 350 should show you your way round your engine it's for 3.0 tdi lump which is pretty much the same......

[Nard666]

Sadly, I've got no choice! I have to sit and wait, as I need them to provide a replacement under the warranty. Can't believe the effed up process.. you should see the stinker of an email that I've just fired off to the MD of Volkswagen UK and copying in various exec's at Yuasa!

We cleaned the EGR valve, and the throttle body. I think the EGR cooler is the block on the opposite (Drivers) side of the block to the EGR and Throttle body? If it's what I'm thinking of, then no - we didn't. However, the mechanic is back on Sunday and brand new VDO EGR valve and throttle body have just arrived which cost ££££'s :facepalm:

They're both going on on Sunday. This time, the inlet manifold is going to come off too, and we're going to give that a bloody good clean... also the pipe that feeds round the back of the block from the EGR to what I think is the EGR cooler - we'll clean that out too. I guess this time, the EGR cooler would make sense to whip and clean also. Sounds like I'll need several extra cans of carb cleaner!

I'm hoping that the two new parts are going to sort this out. I can feel that the throttle body butterfly valve feels "different" to the one on the used one that I was looking at on Saturday - i.e. stronger and whips back into it's natural "open" position with far more purpose and force than I remember the old one doing. I'm hopeful, that ultimately, these two parts (EGR/TB) were just knackered and old, and just need replacing...

Yes all that may help your performance not sure if it will solve your performance issues though (but fingers crossed an all that) and unless the throttle body has been carrying on running when shut off then it won't solve the drain issue

[rjsdavis]

Erm yeah you did I asked if you had cleaned the maf your response was oh yes we cleaned the egr and Throttle body....

Exactly. You've just quoted me correctly when I said that we cleaned the EGR and the throttle body. Not the MAF. Therefore, I'm confused, but let's leave it there, as it's not worth falling out over!

[rjsdavis]

Ok - we've made some progress...

This afternoon we popped on a brand new VDO EGR valve and brand new VDO Throttle Body.

In my professional opinion, the old EGR valve was f*****. When I tried to turn the butterfly valve, it simply wouldn't move, and was partly open when the valve was removed from the inlet manifold. I opened the valve up a little bit more with a screwdriver, but it required considerable force and then was stuck fast. I think it's fair to say that it was completely broken!

The old Throttle Body has clearly been worked on before and tampered with by someone. I've uploaded a pic of it below, and you see that someone has had the module cover off, and the seal has been pulled into some sort of completely incorrect loop where a small positioning notch in the seal should be. Given that someone had tampered with this before, and it looked as generally knackered as the EGR, we just changed both. The car dumped an almighty pile of soot on the driveway behind it at startup! Never seen the like.

Ok - first drive, all seemed to be well initially, and the car was driving normally. However, within about two minutes, and after I'd given it some (gentle, but firm) acceleration beans, I could the tell-tale turbo wastegate (I think) wail on the rev-down as I changed up a gear and the car's power disappeared. It went straight back into a limp mode again. The car was running, was idling fine, but revs were limited and there was no real power at all. Pullaway from standstill was now fine. There was enough to get it up a hill slowly, but that was about it. Took it back.

VCDS reported a turbo overboost error code - the error is pasted in below. Do any kind souls know what this means?

So... cleared the faults again (I had cleared all faults after the new EGR & TB had been fitted and before first test drive), and the mechanics initial thought was that this might end up clearing itself now that working EGR and TB were fitted. Advice was to go for a high-speed burn down the dual carriageway (rather than higher pressure accelerations) to clear all of the cr*p out of the system. We went to do this, but the car went back into a limp mode again accelerating (reasonably gingerly) up the slip road (which admittedly was up a fair incline) at about 2,500 RPM, and it simply wouldn't get passed 40-45mph again.

Went down a junction, came off and drove her back through the lanes. She felt "Ok'ish" on normal country lane type roads (other than not having proper acceleration available underfoot), but you could tell that she was still in a limp-mode and not right, albeit not as bad as the limp-mode from last weekend where she literally ran out of puff up a hill and broke down on me!

Got her home, and mechanic whipped off the airbox and pipes to look at the turbo. He was happy with the impeller, stating that it felt as though it span very freely in his fingers and had minimal play. Good news. He started looking at the wastegate and after a few minutes thought that this overly stiff and thought that it felt to him as if it was stiff and sticking, but he was trying to move it with a screwdriver and his finger, so access wasn't great. He felt that the pipe on the top of the vacuum was fine and was sucking as it should. He was also happy that all of the main large turbo pipes (which he checked before he took out the air pipes/box/filter etc) all apparently filled up nicely and felt firm to him.

Therefore, his initial conclusion was that this was an additional and not correlated problem, and that it was most likely to be either be the wastegate sticking and not operating freely, or a boost pressure sensor failure/issue. Are there any knowledgeable souls out there that know more about the turbo system and can shed any light on this and the VCDS data below? So frustrated. Really thought that the new EGR and TB would cure my engine problems and I'd be back driving again as of this afternoon! GGGRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

There are no lights on on the dashboard, and this is the only present error code that the car is reporting...

000564 - Boost Pressure Regulation
P0234 - 000 - Limit Exceeded (Overboost Condition)
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01110000
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 211838 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2018.01.21
Time: 11:47:39


Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2709 /min
Speed: 62.0 km/h
Load: 58.4 %
Voltage: 13.83 V
Bin. Bits: 00101000
Absolute Pres.: 2121.6 mbar
Absolute Pres.: 2590.8 mbar

PS - unsure if there's a continued battery drain at this precise moment. Keeping a very, very close eye on it for signs of excessive energy loss as she remains sitting on the driveway.

If it helps to diagnose - there was a prior turbo pressure log from a couple of weeks ago, but it was assumed at that time, that this was being caused by the EGR not working properly..

000665 - Boost Pressure Regulation
P0299 - 000 - Control Range Not Reached - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00110000
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 10
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 211421 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2018.01.03
Time: 18:33:31


Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2184 /min
Speed: 51.0 km/h
Load: 62.4 %
Voltage: 13.60 V
Bin. Bits: 00101000
Absolute Pres.: 2223.6 mbar
Absolute Pres.: 1774.8 mbar


Readiness: 1 3 0 0 0

and this one from early December:

000564 - Boost Pressure Regulation
P0234 - 000 - Limit Exceeded (Overboost Condition) - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00110000
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 210148 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2017.12.18
Time: 10:50:28

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2709 /min
Speed: 62.0 km/h
Load: 47.5 %
Voltage: 13.60 V
Bin. Bits: 00101000
Absolute Pres.: 1856.4 mbar
Absolute Pres.: 2590.8 mbar

Readiness: 1 2 0 0 0


3462234623

[rjsdavis]

BTW - am presently reading this VCDS Wiki in the error code:

16618/P0234/000564 - Ross-Tech Wiki (http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/16618/P0234/000564)

Does anyone know where the Boost Pressure Control Valve & Boost Pressure Sensor are located on the car? Does this now need to go into a proper garage for turbo pressure output diagnostic testing?

[Rob69]

The map or boost sensor will be located on the inlet pipe before the inlet manifold. IIRC and your car is similar layout to my b5 passat, the n75 is on the front (timing belt ) end of the engine next to the spherical vacuum accumulator, if not just trace back the vac hose. I suspect you have sticking vnt mechanism in the turbo. You have vcds so you can measure requested vs. Actual boost while driving, look in measuring blocks, run a log and graph it or use vcds scope to trend the data. Try a vacuum pump on the vnt actuator to check for smooth movement, At least youve sorted the knackered egr and throttle flap!

[rjsdavis]

The map or boost sensor will be located on the inlet pipe before the inlet manifold. IIRC and your car is similar layout to my b5 passat, the n75 is on the front (timing belt ) end of the engine next to the spherical vacuum accumulator, if not just trace back the vac hose. I suspect you have sticking vnt mechanism in the turbo. You have vcds so you can measure requested vs. Actual boost while driving, look in measuring blocks, run a log and graph it or use vcds scope to trend the data. Try a vacuum pump on the vnt actuator to check for smooth movement, At least youve sorted the knackered egr and throttle flap!

Thank you very much Rob - very much appreciated... I hope you're right!

Excuse my ignorance, as I'm still a reasonable novice, but what's the "vnt mechanism" within the turbo? If it is this, is it a "strip and free up" type of job, or a "replace it asap" sort of job?

Also - do you happen to know how I can measure the requested -v- actual boost within VCDS (i.e. the module and which options to pick)? I'm very happy to go out and do that right now, to see if the measurements pinpoint the root problem.

[Rob69]

I dont have access to my car or vcds atm, so cant tell you step by step, but i did it last year on my 1.9 passat to check my turbo and map sensor, if you google a bit or look on vcds wiki you shoul find which measuring blocks and how to log or graph. Also google or youtube vnt, loads of vids showing you the gubbins.

[rjsdavis]

Right, ok... I'm learning!

So your suspicion is that the veins / control ring inside the turbo are clogged/sticking? That would seem to make sense, as I'm sure I was watching the mechanic lever up what I now believe to be the actuator (underneath the bell housing where the small vacuum pipe was attached to the top), and he didn't like how stiff that assembly was. He reckoned it should have been much freer, and his plan (next Sunday - FML!) was to disassemble this to free it up. I think we're talking about the same thing n'est pas - in that the actuator that he didn't like the restricted movement of, is actually sticky or sticking because of (potentially) a build-up of crud inside the veins/control ring inside the turbo unit itself?

Ifso, I think I understand this now... just got to work out how to use VCDS to get the turbo readings....

I just watched this video to learn from - seemed like a knowledgeable guy doing the talking:

How a VNT turbo works with diassembly and DIY repair of sticking vanes - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1Hvt2b7PL0)

[Rob69]

Yes, you're getting the picture. Let's know how you get on with it.

[Nard666]

Right, ok... I'm learning!

So your suspicion is that the veins / control ring inside the turbo are clogged/sticking? That would seem to make sense, as I'm sure I was watching the mechanic lever up what I now believe to be the actuator (underneath the bell housing where the small vacuum pipe was attached to the top), and he didn't like how stiff that assembly was. He reckoned it should have been much freer, and his plan (next Sunday - FML!) was to disassemble this to free it up. I think we're talking about the same thing n'est pas - in that the actuator that he didn't like the restricted movement of, is actually sticky or sticking because of (potentially) a build-up of crud inside the veins/control ring inside the turbo unit itself?

Ifso, I think I understand this now... just got to work out how to use VCDS to get the turbo readings....

I just watched this video to learn from - seemed like a knowledgeable guy doing the talking:

How a VNT turbo works with diassembly and DIY repair of sticking vanes - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1Hvt2b7PL0)

After reading your first messages since I last checked the thread (I'm no longer getting any notifications for some reason) I was thinking seems like turbo vanes (I had suspected this before but you had only mentioned underboost and although you do sometimes get underboost from what I've encountered and also what I've read overboost is more common, it may be worth mentioning any past changes in scans like that)

[rjsdavis]

Okey dokey - I've finished messing around trying to extract a log of data, and think I've been at least partially successful.

Initially, I tried to bring up the measuring blocks as shown in this page: Boost check on VAGCOM (VCDS) (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php/105813-Boost-check-on-VAGCOM-(VCDS)) - but VCDS wasn't really playing ball. When I entered 114 - in the top block, all of the fields just remained blank and empty. 115 worked, and brought up values etc, but I couldn't see anyway of bringing up/separating 115-3 and 115-4 - I could only bring up 115 as a three digit number and that was it. I left that and moved on.

IIRC I went into the measuring blocks section of 01 - ENGINE, and again IIRC, simply used the "TURBO" button at the top of the page to bring up prescribed measuring blocks and values. Long story short, I've logged those into an Excel spreadsheet that I will attempt to upload into this thread, although I'm not sure how, as the buttons only seem to want to insert pics and videos.

Anyway, whilst VCDS was logging the data, I took her from idle upto 3,500 RPM or so so that the values were showing the difference between requested and actual. I've just scrolled through the cells, and it's definitely showing a significantly "out of proportion" overboost, where at Specified, at about 3,000 RPM it was 1260-1280 mbars, but the actual was up at 1450-1500 mbars! I think I can see why the car is reporting an error with a clear "overboost condition".

At the moment, the car is running, and if I'm gentle, along flatish, normal roads, keeping the revs under 3,000 before a gearchange, she'll run fine (once the Overboost fault code has been cleared) - indeed, I know exactly at what point on flatish roads the overboost fault will now trigger, and VCDS can clear it live and in realtime, and the car will immediately revert back to normal driving, once the fault has been cleared until you peak the revs/turbo pressure that's requested of the engine. Clearly, whilst she can "run about" on relatively normal roads, she cannot still be used.

I tried the dual carriageway slip road (which is a fair old incline) and accelerated in third, gently - she wasn't having any of it at all and immediately went into limp mode at about 35 mph in 3rd at about 2100rpm. It's clear that more pressure is being required of the turbo to accelerate, even gently, up the incline to get up it, and accelerate up it. Therefore, it looks to me that as soon as there is sufficient difference between the specified and the actual - it's an automatic safety mechanism into limp mode, which I totally understand to protect the engine.

So.... what to make of this? I don't know if this helps to firm up the suspected diagnosis of the control ring/nozzles being gunked up and sticking as a result?

Oh, and by the way, I defo have a battery drain - discharge is sufficient to take the car from fully charged to "low battery warning" on the dash in just 48 hours. Have a charger trickle-charging the brand new battery permanently now, as I'm now pretty convinced that the drain killed the old new battery. Can't allow that to happen again, as I'll never get a second battery change under warranty!

Ok, so it won't let me upload / insert an Excel file into the forum - I'm going to do an ugly copy and paste of the log data:



Wednesday
24
January
2018
22:59:11:30461-VCID:75E15DB81CB7CBE9CA-8020
VCDS Version: Release 17.1.3 (x64)
Data version: 20170320 DS267.7




03G 906 016 MH
R4 2.0L EDC G000SG 0948























Group A:
'003



Group B:
'011







Engine Speed
Exhaust Gas
Exhaust Gas
Exhaust Gas

Engine Speed
Boost Pressure
Boost Pressure
Charge Pressure



TIME
(G28)
Recirculat. (spec.)
Recirculat. (actual)
Recirc. Duty Cycle
TIME
(G28)
(specified)
(actual)
Control Duty Cycle


Marker
STAMP
/min
mg/str
mg/str
%
STAMP
/min
mbar
mbar
%



0.13
882
295
490
99.6
0.29
882
1040.4
1009.8
78.1



0.44
882
295
500
99.6
0.63
882
1040.4
1009.8
78.1



0.79
882
295
490
99.6
0.94
882
1040.4
1009.8
78.1



1.1
882
295
500
99.6
1.27
882
1040.4
1009.8
78.1



1.43
882
295
500
99.6
1.58
882
1040.4
1009.8
78.1



1.76
882
295
495
99.6
1.91
882
1040.4
1009.8
78.1



2.07
882
295
495
99.6
2.23
882
1040.4
1009.8
78.1



2.38
882
295
500
99.6
2.57
882
1040.4
1009.8
78.1



2.73
882
295
490
99.6
2.88
882
1040.4
1009.8
78.1



3.04
882
295
500
99.6
3.21
882
1040.4
1009.8
78.1



3.37
882
295
495
99.6
3.52
882
1040.4
1009.8
78.1



3.68
882
295
490
99.6
3.85
882
1040.4
1009.8
78.1



4.01
882
295
490
99.6
4.16
882
1040.4
1009.8
78.1



4.32
882
295
500
99.6
4.5
882
1040.4
1009.8
78.1



4.66
882
295
485
99.6
4.82
882
1040.4
1009.8
78.1



4.98
882
295
495
99.6
5.15
903
1081.2
1009.8
78.9



5.31
1113
345
450
99.6
5.46
1113
1050.6
1009.8
70.2



5.62
1008
295
525
99.2
5.8
966
1050.6
1030.2
76.9



5.96
1134
330
470
99.6
6.12
1155
1060.8
1030.2
67.9



6.27
1155
295
525
96.1
6.44
1155
1071
1040.4
67.1



6.59
1218
315
525
95.3
6.76
1281
1101.6
1050.6
60.4



6.91
1365
295
525
91.8
7.09
1365
1060.8
1071
60.4



7.24
1365
295
540
87.5
7.4
1386
1050.6
1091.4
60.4



7.56
1365
295
515
82.8
7.72
1407
1050.6
1101.6
60.4



7.89
1428
295
445
77.7
8.04
1428
1050.6
1101.6
60.4



8.2
1449
295
405
72.3
8.37
1470
1050.6
1091.4
60.4



8.53
1491
295
360
67.6
8.68
1533
1050.6
1081.2
60.4



8.84
1554
295
345
64.5
9
1554
1050.6
1071
60.4



9.17
1575
295
320
62.9
9.32
1575
1050.6
1060.8
60.4



9.48
1575
295
315
61.3
9.65
1596
1050.6
1050.6
60.4



9.8
1596
295
300
60.5
9.95
1596
1050.6
1050.6
60.4



10.11
1596
295
310
59
10.3
1575
1050.6
1040.4
60.4



10.46
1575
295
300
58.2
10.62
1596
1060.8
1040.4
60.4



10.77
1596
295
300
57.8
10.95
1617
1060.8
1040.4
60.4



11.11
1596
295
290
57.8
11.28
1596
1050.6
1040.4
60.4



11.44
1617
295
285
57.8
11.59
1617
1060.8
1040.4
60.4



11.75
1596
295
300
55.5
11.91
1617
1060.8
1040.4
60.4



12.09
1596
295
295
56.3
12.24
1596
1050.6
1040.4
60.4



12.4
1617
295
290
57
12.56
1617
1050.6
1040.4
60.4



12.72
1659
295
285
58.2
12.88
1680
1071
1040.4
60.4



13.04
1659
295
290
58.2
13.19
1701
1081.2
1040.4
60.4



13.37
1743
295
295
58.6
13.53
1722
1081.2
1040.4
60.4



13.68
1743
295
285
58.6
13.84
1764
1101.6
1050.6
60.4



14.01
1764
295
300
58.2
14.19
1764
1111.8
1050.6
60.4



14.33
1764
295
305
57
14.5
1785
1101.6
1050.6
60.4



14.66
1806
300
305
58.2
14.83
1785
1101.6
1050.6
60.4



14.97
1806
305
300
59
15.13
1806
1111.8
1060.8
60.4



15.3
1848
305
295
60.5
15.46
1890
1132.2
1060.8
60.4



15.61
1848
305
305
58.6
15.77
1890
1132.2
1071
60.4



15.95
1911
305
290
61.3
16.11
1890
1122
1071
60.4



16.27
1932
310
305
60.5
16.46
1953
1132.2
1071
60.4



16.61
1932
300
305
59.4
16.77
1974
1132.2
1081.2
60.4



16.93
1953
300
310
59
17.1
1953
1122
1081.2
60.4



17.26
1974
305
305
60.2
17.42
1953
1122
1081.2
60.4



17.57
1974
305
310
60.2
17.74
1995
1132.2
1091.4
60.4



17.9
1974
305
315
59.8
18.05
1995
1142.4
1091.4
60.4



18.21
1995
305
300
60.5
18.38
1974
1142.4
1091.4
60.4



18.54
2016
310
305
60.5
18.69
2016
1132.2
1091.4
60.4



18.85
2016
305
320
58.6
19.02
2037
1152.6
1101.6
60.4



19.18
2037
315
310
60.2
19.34
2016
1152.6
1101.6
60.4



19.49
2058
315
310
60.9
19.66
2058
1162.8
1101.6
60.4



19.82
2058
310
305
60.9
19.98
2037
1152.6
1101.6
60.4



20.13
2058
325
310
62.1
20.31
2058
1162.8
1111.8
60.4



20.48
2079
330
315
63.3
20.63
2058
1173
1111.8
60.4



20.81
2058
335
310
64.1
20.96
2100
1224
1111.8
60.4



21.12
2142
350
335
65.2
21.28
2142
1244.4
1132.2
60.4



21.47
2121
350
340
65.6
21.63
2163
1244.4
1142.4
60.4



21.79
2163
350
350
65.2
21.95
2163
1254.6
1152.6
60.4



22.12
2205
355
345
66.4
22.28
2205
1275
1162.8
60.4



22.43
2226
360
360
65.6
22.59
2247
1285.2
1173
60.4



22.76
2310
370
355
65.2
22.92
2352
1285.2
1193.4
60



23.07
2415
375
355
64.1
23.23
2499
1275
1213.8
56.8



23.4
2625
400
360
64.8
23.56
2688
1275
1254.6
51.3



23.71
2751
415
400
64.1
23.87
2793
1275
1295.4
47.7



24.04
2814
415
420
64.1
24.2
2856
1264.8
1346.4
43.8



24.35
2877
420
415
64.5
24.51
2898
1264.8
1387.2
40.6



24.69
2919
420
420
64.1
24.85
2940
1264.8
1417.8
37.5



25.01
2940
425
425
63.3
25.19
2961
1264.8
1438.2
35.1



25.35
2961
425
420
63.3
25.51
2982
1264.8
1448.4
33.1



25.67
2982
425
420
63.3
25.84
2982
1264.8
1458.6
32



26
3003
425
425
62.5
26.15
3003
1264.8
1468.8
30.4



26.3
3024
430
435
62.5
26.48
3024
1264.8
1479
29.6



26.64
3024
430
440
64.1
26.81
3045
1264.8
1489.2
28.4



26.97
3024
430
440
61.7
27.13
3024
1264.8
1499.4
27.6



27.29
3024
430
425
61.7
27.44
3045
1275
1499.4
28



27.63
3066
430
430
64.5
27.78
3066
1275
1499.4
27.6



27.94
3066
430
455
63.7
28.12
3087
1285.2
1519.8
26



28.28
3108
435
450
64.8
28.44
3150
1315.8
1540.2
25.3



28.61
3171
510
500
69.9
28.77
3192
1326
1581
21.7



28.93
3192
540
585
68.8
29.1
3192
1326
1662.6
14.2



29.25
3213
560
560
69.9
29.43
3150
1285.2
1703.4
7.1



29.59
2982
400
475
52.7
29.74
2730
1101.6
1621.8
54.1



29.89
2457
330
340
27.7
30.07
2121
1040.4
1397.4
60.4



30.22
1869
295
285
30.1
30.38
1638
1030.2
1244.4
60.4



30.53
1407
295
295
28.5
30.71
1197
1030.2
1132.2
65.1



30.86
966
295
350
19.5
31.02
924
1040.4
1081.2
78.5



31.18
903
295
305
34.4
31.35
903
1040.4
1050.6
78.5



31.5
882
295
305
34.8
31.66
882
1040.4
1030.2
78.9



31.83
882
295
290
41
32
882
1040.4
1020
78.9



32.16
882
295
290
41
32.32
861
1050.6
1009.8
78.9



32.49
882
295
285
42.2
32.64
882
1050.6
1009.8
78.9



32.8
861
295
285
44.1
32.96
882
1050.6
999.6
78.9



33.13
882
295
285
44.5
33.29
882
1050.6
999.6
78.9



33.44
882
295
280
46.1
33.6
861
1050.6
999.6
78.9



33.77
882
295
295
46.1
33.93
882
1050.6
999.6
78.9



34.08
882
295
290
47.3
34.24
882
1050.6
999.6
78.9



34.41
882
295
290
46.1
34.57
882
1050.6
999.6
78.9



34.73
882
295
285
47.3
34.92
882
1040.4
999.6
78.9



35.08
882
295
290
47.3
35.24
882
1050.6
999.6
78.9



35.39
882
295
285
49.6
35.56
882
1050.6
999.6
78.9



35.72
882
295
295
48
35.88
882
1050.6
999.6
78.9



36.04
882
295
275
51.6
36.21
882
1050.6
999.6
78.9



36.37
882
295
275
53.1
36.53
882
1050.6
999.6
78.9



36.68
882
295
295
49.6
36.85
882
1040.4
999.6
78.9



37.01
882
295
290
48.4
37.16
882
1040.4
999.6
78.9



37.32
882
295
290
48.4
37.51
882
1040.4
999.6
78.9



37.67
882
295
290
50.4
37.82
882
1040.4
999.6
78.9



37.98
882
295
300
49.2
38.15
882
1050.6
999.6
78.9



38.31
882
295
300
48
38.46
882
1040.4
999.6
78.9



38.62
882
295
290
50.4
38.79
882
1050.6
999.6
78.9



38.95
882
295
285
50.8
39.1
882
1040.4
999.6
78.9



39.26
882
295
305
48.4
39.43
882
1040.4
999.6
78.9



39.59
882
295
295
48.4
39.74
882
1040.4
999.6
78.9



39.9
882
295
290
48.8
40.08
882
1040.4
999.6
78.9



40.24
882
295
285
50
40.4
882
1040.4
999.6
78.9



40.56
882
295
280
50
40.73
882
1040.4
999.6
78.9



40.89
882
295
285
50.4
41.04
882
1050.6
999.6
78.9

[Rob69]

If you watch the turbo actuator rod as the engine is started you should see it travel to the limit stop to close the vanes and allow max boost when required, as engine load increases the n75 solenoid bleeds actuator vacuum to open the vanes and limit boost, you seem to have sticking mechanism, n75 solenoid fault or map sensor reading boost pressure incorrectly. If you had a faulty map sensor or n75 i would expect to see an error code for it or the offset between requested and actual to be there from the start rather than opening up as boost increases. I cant see your actual boost in the vcds log but am presuming requested and actual deviation increases as boost increases rather than the offset being there from the start. I'm no expert but do suspect the vnt is sticking. Sorry- got no idea where your current drain is going, vcds might indicate which module is remaing active or pulling fuses to certain items might show up on an ammeter in line with the battery, i've had the alarm siren internal battery fail, and do strange things to my alarm system, and they always seem to fail after several years.

[rjsdavis]

If you watch the turbo actuator rod as the engine is started you should see it travel to the limit stop to close the vanes and allow max boost when required, as engine load increases the n75 solenoid bleeds actuator vacuum to open the vanes and limit boost, you seem to have sticking mechanism, n75 solenoid fault or map sensor reading boost pressure incorrectly. If you had a faulty map sensor or n75 i would expect to see an error code for it or the offset between requested and actual to be there from the start rather than opening up as boost increases. I cant see your actual boost in the vcds log but am presuming requested and actual deviation increases as boost increases rather than the offset being there from the start. I'm no expert but do suspect the vnt is sticking. Sorry- got no idea where your current drain is going, vcds might indicate which module is remaing active or pulling fuses to certain items might show up on an ammeter in line with the battery, i've had the alarm siren internal battery fail, and do strange things to my alarm system, and they always seem to fail after several years.

Hello Rob

Thank you for that post - it all looks logical to me, and I'm unable to find anything that doesn't make sense to me.

Can you not see the boost figures? There's a large table at the bottom of my last post, and they're all in there. Engine speed is the fourth column from the right, Specified Boost is the third from the right, Actual Boost is the second from the right. As you can see from the three columns, as the engine speed gets upto about 2800RPM, the specified and actual are largely in line with one another, but the actual then starts racing ever further away from the specified from about 2800-2900RPM onwards and just gets worse as the engine speed increases...

[Rob69]

I can see the table but the last visible column to me on the right is the specified boost, maybe cos i'm viewing on a tablet. Anyway i get the picture as you describe without seeing specific values. I suppose you've been researching more into this overboost problem, maybe your mechanic can confirm what is suspected and then you can decide how to fix it. No doubt you've heard of the "mr muscle" treatment, some folks reckon it works but i'm inclined to think it is a short term fix and the residue left behind can damage the turbine shaft oil sealing ring. Money pits eh !!!:aargh4:

[rjsdavis]

Thanks Rob - the full table defo shows on a computer.

I have been researching the VNT turbo during the course of the last week - and this video seems to be the best guide I can find that walks you through how a turbo works, and how to disassemble to clean:

How a VNT turbo works with diassembly and DIY repair of sticking vanes - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1Hvt2b7PL0&t=53s)

I've heard about the Mr Muscle treatment, but would never use oven cleaner on a car part. I've got a couple of cans of Carb Cleaner ready to go and clean up whatever we find in the turbo. I'm just hopeful that this is the root cause!

[rjsdavis]

Am gutted.

Mechanic was a no-show this morning, so I'm no further forward. I think I'm going to need to find someone else to do this work - I thought about it doing it myself, until it occurred to me that the engine would supply engine oil to the turbo to keep it lubricated, and I didn't have the bits to perform an oil change, and even then, I was probably not confident enough to attempt the turbo removal without a really decent guide.

Is there a guide (I can't find one) that walks you through the removal of the turbo from a 2.0TDI engine?

Failing that, is there a directory or list of trusted Audi specialists that from forum users?

[rjsdavis]

Ok - finally some good news....

After my mechanic friend didn't turn up as a no-show, I bit the bullet and tried to track down a genuinely helpful local Audi specialist that cares about their customers. It was a bit of a task.

I initially rang Kent Volkswagen in Margate and the chap there was too busy to talk. I then rang East Kent Automotive. This largely went as I expected, with the sharp intake of breath and "that's going to cost you a few quid" type call. In a nutshell, the chap that I spoke to made it perfectly clear that they do not work on, service or attempt to repair or clean turbo's in anyway. I tried to talk to him about the VCDS data I'd already collected, and his response was "I'm not interested in customer collected data. Before we go fitting a new turbo, we'll need to diagnose your fault and we'll do an ODIS scan, that will completely scan your car and diagnose the exact problem".

I asked him to explain what this scan did, that VCDS didn't, and his response was "I've no idea, I don't use VCDS". I asked him to tell me what my £84 for the ODIS scan bought me, and all he could say was "It will scan your car and tell us what's wrong with it. It's the genuine VW kit".... yes, but what does it actually do? He was unable to explain any further. He then priced up the replacement turbo, which came in at just under £1200 for an "exchange turbo". When challenged, he eventually conceded that it was a refurb'd turbo albeit supplied by TPS/VAG. The £84 scan was on top - so about £1300 all in. The whole call struck me as "I'm just a fitter, and I do whatever my computer tells me to do" - I gave them a very wide berth.

I then drove to the Motorists Centre in Hersden. What a revelation. I walked in through the garage door, and the two chaps in the workshop greeted me and asked what was up. I started to talk car with them and talked about everything we've been looking at on here. Quite quickly they came to the same suspected diagnosis as everyone else - a sticky VNT. They also talked about it being a potentially split diaphragm in the manifold, but the fact that there was a fault code and the description still pointed towards a sticky VNT. One of them started walking outside and asked if I had the keys - he was going to have a quick look at it there and then! I hadn't come over in it, as it was largely undriveable at the time, but the thought was noticed.

It turns out that these two chaps were actually the pair of brothers that own it. I then spent the next 20 minutes plus upstairs talking to Ben, their workshop manager, about turbo's and working on cars etc - another revelation. Long story short, we decided that the best course of action was to attempt a turbo clean with some Mr Muscle. They managed to book me in for the very next afternoon (!) and I limped the car over there, hanging around whilst they did their stuff. The only slight (very, very slight) complaint (not a complaint at all in fact), was that they weren't very happy about punters that like to watch whilst they work - but I did get called down twice during the time they were doing their stuff to look at what they'd found.

So... they agreed that there was almost no movement on the wastegate actuator. In the end, they backed the exhaust off the turbo, and sprayed the Mr Muscle directly onto the turbo itself. I was fairly relaxed about this, as if the turbo was kaput anyway and was going to have to be replaced, sticking some Mr Muscle on it really wasn't going to make any difference - it would either work and loosen off the stickiness, or make no difference and it was new turbo time.

I got called down as they also thought that the vacuum on the EGR side of the main block was also restricted / not showing much movement / not quite working properly. The mechanic had put a vacuum pump on both the top of the wastegate actuator, as well as this other vacuum which moves the swirlflaps inside the inlet manifold. Again, it started / wanted to move, but didn't seem to work through it's expected range of motion. We decided at the time, to simply complete the Mr Muscle turbo clean and see how that went. When I got called down again later, they weren't overly optimistic about success as Ben had already shown me that when we were all standing underneath the car whilst it was fully elevated, he was unable to move the wastegate actuator on the turbo hardly at all, whilst pushing it up with a large steel bar - this was after the Mr Muscle treatment, so it kind of looked as though it hadn't been successful, hadn't freed up the control ring and variable nozzles and therefore the actuator itself, insofar that there was very little movement. We both agreed that we'd been expecting 30+mm of movement from the actuator, but it was barely moving at all.

Anyway, car came off the ramp and mechanic took it out for a drive - success! He came back and told me that he'd done a from 30mph in third acceleration at about 1500rpm and floored it to see if he could spark the car into limp mode - it didn't, and the car apparently continued to pull well all the way upto 4000rpm. He had to back down as he was breaking the speed limit. They sent me on my way with no guarantees of this being a long-term fix but to see how it went.

I drove the car for the rest of the evening with no further turbo issues at all, no limp mode, normal acceleration and everything (so far and touching lots of wood) in the engine seems to be working as it should. This is great. They charged me the princely sum of £41 for the labour and the Mr Muscle (!). I was over the moon to have a working car again - totally top chaps, totally excellent service and not like normal garage's that just want to fit parts and charge the most amount possible. So far, I am very happy.

The biggest part of the reason for posting this up is to share a good news story and the confirmed result that the turbo was sticky after all - thanks to Rob/Inspectorman/Nard for their helpful posts getting to this result.

The other part was in relation to the turbo actuator, and we were all sitting there scratching our heads after the mechanic came back from the test run, trying to work out exactly how the car is seemingly working properly if there is very little movement in the turbo actuator? W T F is that all about? I know some will think - "you're car's working, be happy!" - but I've got to understand it.

I'm also thinking - is there any need/point to doing the next job that they recommended that I did, which is to have the inlet manifold off to see if the swirlflaps are stuck, as seems to be the case. The swirlflap actuator has the same limited movement range as the wastegate actuator. So this has me thinking... Does the full range of movement of both actuators only come to life when the engine is actually running? If the swirlflaps are indeed stuck in place and the actuator isn't able to move them as is suspected, what effects would I expect to feel from driving the car?

The reason for asking, is that it's a 2.5h labour job to take off, thoroughly clean and reassemble (plus they'd fit a new actutor whilst they were in there which was about £12-15 or so) but if I don't really need it, I could do without the job cost! I'm just trying to get my head round it a bit more...

Also - the car's booked into an auto-electrician specialist that the Motorists Centre recommended as being an absolute guru early next week for two days to track down and cure the battery drain issue once and for all - I've got a feeling I'm going to get a bill for this that's going to make me feel a bit sick, but I've got to do it, as the battery is defo being drained like it was before!

[Nard666]

Ok - finally some good news....

After my mechanic friend didn't turn up as a no-show, I bit the bullet and tried to track down a genuinely helpful local Audi specialist that cares about their customers. It was a bit of a task.

I initially rang Kent Volkswagen in Margate and the chap there was too busy to talk. I then rang East Kent Automotive. This largely went as I expected, with the sharp intake of breath and "that's going to cost you a few quid" type call. In a nutshell, the chap that I spoke to made it perfectly clear that they do not work on, service or attempt to repair or clean turbo's in anyway. I tried to talk to him about the VCDS data I'd already collected, and his response was "I'm not interested in customer collected data. Before we go fitting a new turbo, we'll need to diagnose your fault and we'll do an ODIS scan, that will completely scan your car and diagnose the exact problem".

I asked him to explain what this scan did, that VCDS didn't, and his response was "I've no idea, I don't use VCDS". I asked him to tell me what my £84 for the ODIS scan bought me, and all he could say was "It will scan your car and tell us what's wrong with it. It's the genuine VW kit".... yes, but what does it actually do? He was unable to explain any further. He then priced up the replacement turbo, which came in at just under £1200 for an "exchange turbo". When challenged, he eventually conceded that it was a refurb'd turbo albeit supplied by TPS/VAG. The £84 scan was on top - so about £1300 all in. The whole call struck me as "I'm just a fitter, and I do whatever my computer tells me to do" - I gave them a very wide berth.

I then drove to the Motorists Centre in Hersden. What a revelation. I walked in through the garage door, and the two chaps in the workshop greeted me and asked what was up. I started to talk car with them and talked about everything we've been looking at on here. Quite quickly they came to the same suspected diagnosis as everyone else - a sticky VNT. They also talked about it being a potentially split diaphragm in the manifold, but the fact that there was a fault code and the description still pointed towards a sticky VNT. One of them started walking outside and asked if I had the keys - he was going to have a quick look at it there and then! I hadn't come over in it, as it was largely undriveable at the time, but the thought was noticed.

It turns out that these two chaps were actually the pair of brothers that own it. I then spent the next 20 minutes plus upstairs talking to Ben, their workshop manager, about turbo's and working on cars etc - another revelation. Long story short, we decided that the best course of action was to attempt a turbo clean with some Mr Muscle. They managed to book me in for the very next afternoon (!) and I limped the car over there, hanging around whilst they did their stuff. The only slight (very, very slight) complaint (not a complaint at all in fact), was that they weren't very happy about punters that like to watch whilst they work - but I did get called down twice during the time they were doing their stuff to look at what they'd found.

So... they agreed that there was almost no movement on the wastegate actuator. In the end, they backed the exhaust off the turbo, and sprayed the Mr Muscle directly onto the turbo itself. I was fairly relaxed about this, as if the turbo was kaput anyway and was going to have to be replaced, sticking some Mr Muscle on it really wasn't going to make any difference - it would either work and loosen off the stickiness, or make no difference and it was new turbo time.

I got called down as they also thought that the vacuum on the EGR side of the main block was also restricted / not showing much movement / not quite working properly. The mechanic had put a vacuum pump on both the top of the wastegate actuator, as well as this other vacuum which moves the swirlflaps inside the inlet manifold. Again, it started / wanted to move, but didn't seem to work through it's expected range of motion. We decided at the time, to simply complete the Mr Muscle turbo clean and see how that went. When I got called down again later, they weren't overly optimistic about success as Ben had already shown me that when we were all standing underneath the car whilst it was fully elevated, he was unable to move the wastegate actuator on the turbo hardly at all, whilst pushing it up with a large steel bar - this was after the Mr Muscle treatment, so it kind of looked as though it hadn't been successful, hadn't freed up the control ring and variable nozzles and therefore the actuator itself, insofar that there was very little movement. We both agreed that we'd been expecting 30+mm of movement from the actuator, but it was barely moving at all.

Anyway, car came off the ramp and mechanic took it out for a drive - success! He came back and told me that he'd done a from 30mph in third acceleration at about 1500rpm and floored it to see if he could spark the car into limp mode - it didn't, and the car apparently continued to pull well all the way upto 4000rpm. He had to back down as he was breaking the speed limit. They sent me on my way with no guarantees of this being a long-term fix but to see how it went.

I drove the car for the rest of the evening with no further turbo issues at all, no limp mode, normal acceleration and everything (so far and touching lots of wood) in the engine seems to be working as it should. This is great. They charged me the princely sum of £41 for the labour and the Mr Muscle (!). I was over the moon to have a working car again - totally top chaps, totally excellent service and not like normal garage's that just want to fit parts and charge the most amount possible. So far, I am very happy.

The biggest part of the reason for posting this up is to share a good news story and the confirmed result that the turbo was sticky after all - thanks to Rob/Inspectorman/Nard for their helpful posts getting to this result.

The other part was in relation to the turbo actuator, and we were all sitting there scratching our heads after the mechanic came back from the test run, trying to work out exactly how the car is seemingly working properly if there is very little movement in the turbo actuator? W T F is that all about? I know some will think - "you're car's working, be happy!" - but I've got to understand it.

I'm also thinking - is there any need/point to doing the next job that they recommended that I did, which is to have the inlet manifold off to see if the swirlflaps are stuck, as seems to be the case. The swirlflap actuator has the same limited movement range as the wastegate actuator. So this has me thinking... Does the full range of movement of both actuators only come to life when the engine is actually running? If the swirlflaps are indeed stuck in place and the actuator isn't able to move them as is suspected, what effects would I expect to feel from driving the car?

The reason for asking, is that it's a 2.5h labour job to take off, thoroughly clean and reassemble (plus they'd fit a new actutor whilst they were in there which was about £12-15 or so) but if I don't really need it, I could do without the job cost! I'm just trying to get my head round it a bit more...

Also - the car's booked into an auto-electrician specialist that the Motorists Centre recommended as being an absolute guru early next week for two days to track down and cure the battery drain issue once and for all - I've got a feeling I'm going to get a bill for this that's going to make me feel a bit sick, but I've got to do it, as the battery is defo being drained like it was before!

That's great I'm glad that your car is running better now, turbos are not cheap but for a re-con at 1200 quid I'm thinking you could have got one cheaper or even had yours refurbished for less but thankfully not needed, odis can do some things VCDS can't and VCDS can also do some things odis can't from what I'm aware, yes I have had personal experience of intake manifolds on my own car, you tend to get a dtc of upper or lower limit not being reached for swirl flaps and there's a different one for it being the motor (can't remember what it is off the top of my head) I had these as an intermittent fault for a couple of years and it had occasional effect on performance but nothing drastic and then fine the rest of the time when they go from what I know it will often put it into limp mode although when my ones eventually went it made my engine idle rough on one side(I have a 3.0 tdi v6) I done mine and the idle was much better, if done they should be cleaned up as much as possible but bearing in mind a mechanic while charge for time on how far with That you go and if they are off it may be a good idea to just replace the swirl flaps and seals while there to save a later problem as the bearings such as they are wear (they are little bits of plastic) and if the flaps were to break the would ruin the engine although that's far more common for BMW and merc but on those you can use a blanking kit for most audi engines but not all those aren't available but there are full repair kits including flaps aswell as the arms, bearings etc available on eBay enter your car make and engine and then type swirl flap repair kit and it should bring you results up just check all parts needed are in the kit as they do various levels of kit and that your part numbers are mentioned (for your intake manifolds which can be found out by phoning audi and enquiring about intake manifolds and asking for your part numbers) the swirl flaps move according to revs and and if it remember rightly it also depends on how warm the engine is but they can be activated using VCDS though I can't remember how this is done it should be easy enough to track down the procedure using Google /ross -tech pages, hope that helps but let us know if further help is needing and I will help as much as possible and also let us know how goes with the battery drain please, mine still has drain issues but is currently off the road as my air conditioning compressor shot it's pulley off the other night and needs that and it's clutch etc replacing (a kit is available for this)

[Nard666]

Ok - finally some good news....

After my mechanic friend didn't turn up as a no-show, I bit the bullet and tried to track down a genuinely helpful local Audi specialist that cares about their customers. It was a bit of a task.

I initially rang Kent Volkswagen in Margate and the chap there was too busy to talk. I then rang East Kent Automotive. This largely went as I expected, with the sharp intake of breath and "that's going to cost you a few quid" type call. In a nutshell, the chap that I spoke to made it perfectly clear that they do not work on, service or attempt to repair or clean turbo's in anyway. I tried to talk to him about the VCDS data I'd already collected, and his response was "I'm not interested in customer collected data. Before we go fitting a new turbo, we'll need to diagnose your fault and we'll do an ODIS scan, that will completely scan your car and diagnose the exact problem".

I asked him to explain what this scan did, that VCDS didn't, and his response was "I've no idea, I don't use VCDS". I asked him to tell me what my £84 for the ODIS scan bought me, and all he could say was "It will scan your car and tell us what's wrong with it. It's the genuine VW kit".... yes, but what does it actually do? He was unable to explain any further. He then priced up the replacement turbo, which came in at just under £1200 for an "exchange turbo". When challenged, he eventually conceded that it was a refurb'd turbo albeit supplied by TPS/VAG. The £84 scan was on top - so about £1300 all in. The whole call struck me as "I'm just a fitter, and I do whatever my computer tells me to do" - I gave them a very wide berth.

I then drove to the Motorists Centre in Hersden. What a revelation. I walked in through the garage door, and the two chaps in the workshop greeted me and asked what was up. I started to talk car with them and talked about everything we've been looking at on here. Quite quickly they came to the same suspected diagnosis as everyone else - a sticky VNT. They also talked about it being a potentially split diaphragm in the manifold, but the fact that there was a fault code and the description still pointed towards a sticky VNT. One of them started walking outside and asked if I had the keys - he was going to have a quick look at it there and then! I hadn't come over in it, as it was largely undriveable at the time, but the thought was noticed.

It turns out that these two chaps were actually the pair of brothers that own it. I then spent the next 20 minutes plus upstairs talking to Ben, their workshop manager, about turbo's and working on cars etc - another revelation. Long story short, we decided that the best course of action was to attempt a turbo clean with some Mr Muscle. They managed to book me in for the very next afternoon (!) and I limped the car over there, hanging around whilst they did their stuff. The only slight (very, very slight) complaint (not a complaint at all in fact), was that they weren't very happy about punters that like to watch whilst they work - but I did get called down twice during the time they were doing their stuff to look at what they'd found.

So... they agreed that there was almost no movement on the wastegate actuator. In the end, they backed the exhaust off the turbo, and sprayed the Mr Muscle directly onto the turbo itself. I was fairly relaxed about this, as if the turbo was kaput anyway and was going to have to be replaced, sticking some Mr Muscle on it really wasn't going to make any difference - it would either work and loosen off the stickiness, or make no difference and it was new turbo time.

I got called down as they also thought that the vacuum on the EGR side of the main block was also restricted / not showing much movement / not quite working properly. The mechanic had put a vacuum pump on both the top of the wastegate actuator, as well as this other vacuum which moves the swirlflaps inside the inlet manifold. Again, it started / wanted to move, but didn't seem to work through it's expected range of motion. We decided at the time, to simply complete the Mr Muscle turbo clean and see how that went. When I got called down again later, they weren't overly optimistic about success as Ben had already shown me that when we were all standing underneath the car whilst it was fully elevated, he was unable to move the wastegate actuator on the turbo hardly at all, whilst pushing it up with a large steel bar - this was after the Mr Muscle treatment, so it kind of looked as though it hadn't been successful, hadn't freed up the control ring and variable nozzles and therefore the actuator itself, insofar that there was very little movement. We both agreed that we'd been expecting 30+mm of movement from the actuator, but it was barely moving at all.

Anyway, car came off the ramp and mechanic took it out for a drive - success! He came back and told me that he'd done a from 30mph in third acceleration at about 1500rpm and floored it to see if he could spark the car into limp mode - it didn't, and the car apparently continued to pull well all the way upto 4000rpm. He had to back down as he was breaking the speed limit. They sent me on my way with no guarantees of this being a long-term fix but to see how it went.

I drove the car for the rest of the evening with no further turbo issues at all, no limp mode, normal acceleration and everything (so far and touching lots of wood) in the engine seems to be working as it should. This is great. They charged me the princely sum of £41 for the labour and the Mr Muscle (!). I was over the moon to have a working car again - totally top chaps, totally excellent service and not like normal garage's that just want to fit parts and charge the most amount possible. So far, I am very happy.

The biggest part of the reason for posting this up is to share a good news story and the confirmed result that the turbo was sticky after all - thanks to Rob/Inspectorman/Nard for their helpful posts getting to this result.

The other part was in relation to the turbo actuator, and we were all sitting there scratching our heads after the mechanic came back from the test run, trying to work out exactly how the car is seemingly working properly if there is very little movement in the turbo actuator? W T F is that all about? I know some will think - "you're car's working, be happy!" - but I've got to understand it.

I'm also thinking - is there any need/point to doing the next job that they recommended that I did, which is to have the inlet manifold off to see if the swirlflaps are stuck, as seems to be the case. The swirlflap actuator has the same limited movement range as the wastegate actuator. So this has me thinking... Does the full range of movement of both actuators only come to life when the engine is actually running? If the swirlflaps are indeed stuck in place and the actuator isn't able to move them as is suspected, what effects would I expect to feel from driving the car?

The reason for asking, is that it's a 2.5h labour job to take off, thoroughly clean and reassemble (plus they'd fit a new actutor whilst they were in there which was about £12-15 or so) but if I don't really need it, I could do without the job cost! I'm just trying to get my head round it a bit more...

Also - the car's booked into an auto-electrician specialist that the Motorists Centre recommended as being an absolute guru early next week for two days to track down and cure the battery drain issue once and for all - I've got a feeling I'm going to get a bill for this that's going to make me feel a bit sick, but I've got to do it, as the battery is defo being drained like it was before!
Another thing to consider is if you do have the intake manifolds off it would be wise to do your glowplugs at the same time if you haven't done them recently as it makes them so much easier to do once the intake manifolds are out of the way

[rjsdavis]

Thanks Nard

IRO of BMW swirl flaps, that's exactly what the mechanics said also - about the crappy plastic bits that just wear heavily and drop into the cylinders when they break - lunacy engine design!

At the moment, as the engine is now running pretty sweetly, I'm inclined to postpone this additional job. As I've driven her a bit more, the car really is running well again now. Full power, no lag, no delay or labour on low rev pick-up. The new EGR/Throttle Body and turbo clean has sorted all of that out. It idles normally. It shuts down normally - all is good. (Still touching lots of wood). I'm pouring in diesel fuel cleaner, as I have been for the last 10,000 miles or so, and will continue to do so, to help clean out the engine slowly over time and to help keep the new parts in as good an order as possible, and to help stave off the turbo getting sticky again for as long as possible.

Before the car actually broke down, and for as long as I've had her, she laboured to pick-up from 1,000-1,600RPM in any gear, particularly 2nd. As you drive back towards my house, you turn into a road that has a very, very short left/right and then up a short but quite steep hill. If you turn into this road in 2nd, at 20mph at about 1200RPM, previously, she would have struggled badly to continue up the hill in 2nd, and if you were carrying just enough momentum/speed, she wouldn't make it and you'd have to drop down to 1st just to get up it. Not anymore. She'll pick up from 1,000RPM, and accelerate straight up the hill with no bother at all.

Previously, she'd also belch out a fair bit of smoke if you tried to accelerate from low revs in any gear. A good example would be if you were doing say 30-35mph in 5th at around 1200-1400RPM and try to gather speed by just accelerating. You could see her put out a fair bit of smoke that would stop when it got over 2200-2400 RPM or so - this has also gone completely after the work. I don't know if it was the EGR/TB change that has done this, or the turbo clean that has done this - but it's gone. This is why the car is running so sweetly again right now - it feels exactly like it should. I can't help myself, but I can't stop thinking about putting the tuning box straight back on, as this made such a difference to power and pick-up - can't help but be curious as to what this will do to the performance now! I'm resisting for now, as I want the electrical issue sorted completely first!

[rjsdavis]

Another thing to consider is if you do have the intake manifolds off it would be wise to do your glowplugs at the same time if you haven't done them recently as it makes them so much easier to do once the intake manifolds are out of the way

Ok - noted. Am not having any real starting issues, but that's another reason to postpone it for now methinks... That'll only make the job even more expensive!

[Nard666]

Thanks Nard

IRO of BMW swirl flaps, that's exactly what the mechanics said also - about the crappy plastic bits that just wear heavily and drop into the cylinders when they break - lunacy engine design!

At the moment, as the engine is now running pretty sweetly, I'm inclined to postpone this additional job. As I've driven her a bit more, the car really is running well again now. Full power, no lag, no delay or labour on low rev pick-up. The new EGR/Throttle Body and turbo clean has sorted all of that out. It idles normally. It shuts down normally - all is good. (Still touching lots of wood). I'm pouring in diesel fuel cleaner, as I have been for the last 10,000 miles or so, and will continue to do so, to help clean out the engine slowly over time and to help keep the new parts in as good an order as possible, and to help stave off the turbo getting sticky again for as long as possible.

Before the car actually broke down, and for as long as I've had her, she laboured to pick-up from 1,000-1,600RPM in any gear, particularly 2nd. As you drive back towards my house, you turn into a road that has a very, very short left/right and then up a short but quite steep hill. If you turn into this road in 2nd, at 20mph at about 1200RPM, previously, she would have struggled badly to continue up the hill in 2nd, and if you were carrying just enough momentum/speed, she wouldn't make it and you'd have to drop down to 1st just to get up it. Not anymore. She'll pick up from 1,000RPM, and accelerate straight up the hill with no bother at all.

Previously, she'd also belch out a fair bit of smoke if you tried to accelerate from low revs in any gear. A good example would be if you were doing say 30-35mph in 5th at around 1200-1400RPM and try to gather speed by just accelerating. You could see her put out a fair bit of smoke that would stop when it got over 2200-2400 RPM or so - this has also gone completely after the work. I don't know if it was the EGR/TB change that has done this, or the turbo clean that has done this - but it's gone. This is why the car is running so sweetly again right now - it feels exactly like it should. I can't help myself, but I can't stop thinking about putting the tuning box straight back on, as this made such a difference to power and pick-up - can't help but be curious as to what this will do to the performance now! I'm resisting for now, as I want the electrical issue sorted completely first!
Yeah it is crazy they ruin the engine, turbo and cat when they break off but that tends to happen more with bmws and mercs it's a lot less likely with audi's which is I'm assuming why they do repair kits instead of blanking kits, yeah I wouldn't bother unless you get the dtc codes associated with it, it's not a massively complicated job to do yourself as long as you have some protection from the elements or its summer and there is plenty of write ups about yes plugs adds another expense but if they haven't been changed before you are already at a helpful stage making it easier to do yourself or it can make it less expensive than having them done at a later stage as for additives I've heard that they can damage your cat but I'm not sure of the truth in that, nothing beats taking things apart and manually cleaning parts but carbon cleaning is supposed to be good (I've no experience of it but have read good things about it and intend to have it done at somepoint) good fuel is definitely a good start instead of cheaper supermarket fuels, I didn't realise you had engine power problems (I stumbled across the thread half way through) it may have been a combination of both and as things go on they only get worse but at least it's sorted now if you still have the same drain issues I would leave the box off for now till you get it sorted (purely to keep it as simple as possible)

[rjsdavis]

I've postponed the garage for the swirlflap work for now. She's having the electrics done on Monday/Tuesday, and hopefully after that, she'll be a fully sorted motor again. (Fingers crossed!).

I'm sticking in Redex Diesel Fuel Treatment every time I refuel and have been for a while - just to help, and it won't harm being added to fuel that may be of a lower grade (although I'm not convinced I buy into the "supermarket diesel is poor quality diesel" argument anyway). It's supposed to help clean the injectors and other parts of the engine that choke up with diesel crud. I also stick in some Millers too from time to time, as it's clear that the previous owner really didn't look after this motor, and it saw a lot of stop/start town stuff which has helped to clog her up. The turd didn't even bother to change the oil filter, which was so old and glooped up, oil was coming out of the filter housing and gently covering that side of the engine bay - the old throttle body which has been sitting on the driveway for the last two weeks, has a small pool of engine oil, which has seeped out of the control module housing! No wonder it wasn't working properly!

Once in a while, I stick a can of DPF cleaner treatment - also from Redex (they guarantee it will clear out your DPF if it's clogged and not regenerating from spanking the car down the motorway to clear out that way) - it can't be bad for the car if they offer a guarantee on it!

I wouldn't have called it an "engine power problem" - just that it struggled at the very low revs to pull. Once it was at 1800/2000RPM and above - it was fine. However, that said, it's cured now anyway - so all good.

[rjsdavis]

Ok - car is now back from the auto-electrician.

He told me that he had "quite a job" (don't they all?), and that when the car was linked up to his rig, it was reporting no draw at all when the car was off and locked up. He claimed that this was the 7th car in a row that had done - sorry, if I come across as unnecessarily skeptical!

Anywho... after having had the car in his garage for three days, he reckons that he's traced an intermittent fault back to the amplifier in the boot. He reckons that this has become water-damaged at some point (which, to be fair it has), and that the plug was showing corrosion, and that water had ingressed onto the amp circuit board. He then reckons that the amp was sparking into life intermittently and regularly, and bringing other systems on that are on the same fibre optic network - i.e. the rest of the MMI system, the DVD player in the boot and so on. He tells me that as soon as the amp was disconnected, all of this stopped immediately and didn't repeat itself once.

Therefore, he has left the car amp disconnected and given it back to me. He's told me to get a replacement amp from Fleabay, and that once that's arrived, to pop back, he'll pop it in FOC and check that the systems are running normally after the new one's in. I picked it up Wed eve and drove it home. It's been on the driveway since then and I'll be using it later today this afternoon - will see if there's any signs at all of "low battery" warnings on the dash or any potential issues with starting it.

As I've reported on here in the past, I had the dreaded rear wash-wipe pipe break, and had all of the internal casing out to replace the pipe to rectify. I actually found this fault as I was buying the car, and testing the rear wiper and trying to work out why no water was coming out. The amp/DVD bay was drenched as the water poured into that cavity, but we clearly hadn't a sufficiently solid job of mopping up all of the water.

****. £216 to an electrician to root the cause back to something I already knew about. I knew that the MMI system was the prime candidate for being the root cause of this issue!

New amp is en route. Hopefully, this is indeed the root cause. Should know by Mon/Tue next week...

[dan2485]

There was post done years ago which identified a failing transistor in the amp that kept them in full powered up mode when supposedly off.

[Nard666]

There was post done years ago which identified a failing transistor in the amp that kept them in full powered up mode when supposedly off.

Interesting, I have a powerdrain also although at a much slower rate (a battery lasts me a year or near enough), I don't have an avant so water into the boot wouldn't be the cause but maybe this? Any ideas of the fuse location for the amp? so I can pull it to see if it makes a difference

[rjsdavis]

There's a complete list of fuses and fuse rack locations in my Audi handbook Nard - albeit the one's in the boot were reversed (wrong) from the left-hand drive models (idiots!)... but still, they are numbered accurately and you can match up what you see in the racks to the fuse ratings and descriptions in the manual. I spent twenty minutes matching up every single fuse in my car to the manual, so now know for sure what every single one of them does.

The amp fuse for the Avant is in the boot fuse racks behind the right-hand panel with the toolkit etc - Saloon is very similar isn't it?

[niall campbell]

Saloon is the same

You could look at left hand side in boot & see the amp

[niall campbell]

Every single time I have been to an auto electrician has been a failure, I have taken the car home & fixed it myself

[rjsdavis]

Every single time I have been to an auto electrician has been a failure, I have taken the car home & fixed it myself

It's the first time I've ever used one, and only did because I couldn't find the root cause myself. Indeed, as posted earlier, I couldn't even detect an electrical draw from the battery when the car was off with an amp clamp on the power cable! The bill of £216 did make me feel pretty sick, but it is starting to look like the amp was indeed the root cause. I've been driving her around since last Wed - no starting issues and no low battery issues, no repeated electrical glitches (oil level sensor / MAF etc et al), all of the external lights always come on as they should when you unlock the car. It does appear that the amp was at the root cause of everything - I presume because it's on the fibre network, thus could interfere with other electrical systems?

I put the Tunit box back in yesterday afternoon - no issues on the initial keyturn and power/economy is back to where it was previously (which was awesome levels of improvement on both).

I've got a new amp now, it's going back in to the electrician to fit and then fully system check tomorrow to make sure all is well FOC (or at least as part of the prior £216 bill!). Could easily fit it myself, but I might as well use him as I've paid for him, and he'll be able to do more to system check everything than I could.

[lynalldiscovery]

Wifes car is a saloon and when changing battery the other day I noticed water in the boot and luckily there was dust and the water had left a trail which was coming form the grommet on the rear face of the wheel well which had a small split, there was literally only a sppon full or two of water but who knows how long it has been elaking for?
Bobbing down and I could clearly see the grommet in the rear bumper gap woughly 1/3 rd in from the passenger side.
Removed grommet applied a bead of silicone, refit smear in silicone done and dry so far.

[rjsdavis]

Went back today for the amp fitting and system check - two hours later, and the electrician wasn't happy with the radio receiver either. FML!

He reckons that with the receiver connected - system takes about 35 mins to shut down. With receiver disconnected, just 5 minutes to shut down which is what he'd expect. He reckoned he cleaned off corrosion from the plug and circuit board of receiver when it was in the first time, but that this had now returned, and he was concerned new water was making it's way into the cavity. New receiver en route. Cavity filled with paper to test for water ingress. Still not sorted.

Ggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...................

[lynalldiscovery]

Went back today for the amp fitting and system check - two hours later, and the electrician wasn't happy with the radio receiver either. FML!

He reckons that with the receiver connected - system takes about 35 mins to shut down. With receiver disconnected, just 5 minutes to shut down which is what he'd expect. He reckoned he cleaned off corrosion from the plug and circuit board of receiver when it was in the first time, but that this had now returned, and he was concerned new water was making it's way into the cavity. New receiver en route. Cavity filled with paper to test for water ingress. Still not sorted.

Ggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...................


Can you not ask him if he can fit an ignition powered relay for the receiver/amp power supply, so as soon as you key off them items are electrically dead?

[rjsdavis]

Can you not ask him if he can fit an ignition powered relay for the receiver/amp power supply, so as soon as you key off them items are electrically dead?

May have to go down that route if the new receiver doesn't shut down the system as it should...

Trying to keep this thing from spirally totally out of control!

[Nard666]

May have to go down that route if the new receiver doesn't shut down the system as it should...

Trying to keep this thing from spirally totally out of control!

Hi mate sorry I've been ill but have just read the thread from where I left off, I haven't got the handbook so have no further idea on fuse location for the amp I know where the fuse box is but unsure on which fuse also have you got any further than this with your powerdrain problem?

[rjsdavis]

Hi mate sorry I've been ill but have just read the thread from where I left off, I haven't got the handbook so have no further idea on fuse location for the amp I know where the fuse box is but unsure on which fuse also have you got any further than this with your powerdrain problem?

Sorry to hear of your illness. Hope you're feeling better...

Made some progress, but it's not resolved.

It went into an auto-electrician specialist no less than three times. The first time, he had it for a day, charged me £216 for about four hours labour, and diagnosed it as being the amp that was water damaged and needed replacing. He asked me to acquire a replacement, which I did, and it went back.

Visit No. 2, he fitted the new amp, and after another 4 hours or so of doing whatever he was doing, gave it back and asked me to get a new radio receiver. I did this, and arranged to go back a third time. When I took the car back after the second visit, he left the MMI system completely disconnected (the stack in the boot), which cut off the screen in the dash too. It was clear that whilst the MMI system was disconnected, the battery drain problem stopped.

Visit No. 3, he fitted the new radio receiver, and after a further 4-5 hours of waiting, handed the car back stating that he was completely happy that it was now shutting down properly and was sorted.

Drove the car away. It wasn't sorted. All of the speakers on the right-hand side of the car now no longer worked! He informed me that he was able to watch the car shutdown, by watching the sat-nav DVD player stopped lighting up, and also watching the hazard warning light shut off. He informed me that these were indicators that the car was now "shut down". He informed me that the hazard warning light went off within a few minutes.

That evening, I watched the hazard light after I locked the car. It didn't go off. After ten minutes I was bored with watching it and came back periodically. After this, and all subsequent drives, I can see that it takes approximately 2 hours for the hazard light to go off and consequently the car to actually shut down. I've made the electrician aware that he hasn't fixed the fault at all, and his response was "that's strange!".

So, my car is actually worse than when he started tinkering with it. I've paid him a load of labour, and ordered new amp and new radio receiver. I've also found new fault codes that have never appeared before - ever, after I took her back after Visit No. 3. Namely short/open circuits in the aerial (I presume the amplified aerial that sits above the stack in the same bay?).

So - I'm fairly ****** about it to be honest. It's seemingly clear that the stack in the boot is the root cause. Its seems to be clear that the electrician doesn't appear to know what he's doing, and was simply going through it "piecemeal" by eliminating things (at my cost) sequentially until he stumbled over a fix.

The battery drain is now slightly different, insofar, that it doesn't completely drain the system. It would appear, from what I can determine, that the two hours or so after shut-down drains the battery for this two hour period, and that the drain stops after the car finally shuts down. Therefore, I now find, that when I go back to the car, whether it's one day or three/four days later, the battery is always at 60% of charge according to the battery meter on the car. The car always starts now, and doesn't give me any "low battery" warnings - with the exception of if you make the fatal error of opening/locking the car without driving of charging it, and then leaving it to sit.

Therefore, if you park up and leave the car, it will continue to take two hours to shut down and the battery will discharge to around 60%. If I were to open the car to get something out of it, and then lock it up again, the car would then take another two hours to shut down and this would take the residual battery down to about 10%. It still, just, starts and I'll get a low battery warning in this circumstance. The car will need a good run or specific charging to resolve it. If the battery is allowed to drop to around the 10% mark, it will log the quiesecent error codes as before.

Therefore, something is still causing a drain. I'm going to order a replacement amplified aerial, fit it, and see if this makes a difference. Just found one on eBay. I can see that there water marks on the cabling leading into the aerial, so it looks like it might have got wet when the rear washer-wiper was leaking which is probably the root cause of all of this blinking rigmarole! Will update if the replacement aerial resolves the issue...

What would you do about the electrician? Grin and bear it? Just let it go and put it down to experience?

Also - got to resolve the missing sound from the right-hand side of the car. Would be lucky if he's simply been incompetent and simply didn't connect everything back up together properly, but I don't know.

[inspectorman63]

Ay caramba. I did say (#54) "competent auto electrician". But the problem has improved so any claim against him is unlikely to succeed.

The clutching-at-straws department here reminds me the stereo controls do have a left / right fader. But as you say, most likely to be a connector that's not properly seated. In all of the box switching, worth a quick check to see you're still on the latest software issue. But it does look like a switched / relayed fuse is the only way out of this.

[rjsdavis]

Ay caramba. I did say (#54) "competent auto electrician". But the problem has improved so any claim against him is unlikely to succeed.

The clutching-at-straws department here reminds me the stereo controls do have a left / right fader. But as you say, most likely to be a connector that's not properly seated. In all of the box switching, worth a quick check to see you're still on the latest software issue. But it does look like a switched / relayed fuse is the only way out of this.

How do you figure that the problem has improved? I still have an electrical fault that drains the battery and now, one side of the car's speakers don't work! In my book - the car's worse than when it started. (I tried the fader immediately. Full left - both on the left work. Full right - no sound at all apart from some very muffled low bass in the back right corner).

I'm stubborn sadly, and just can't go for the switched/relayed fuse. The car should work as factory! New aerial amp on the way, which may improve things. You won't remember, but way, way back on the thread the software was updated to the latest as the first job done to try and rule that out...

[Nard666]

Sorry to hear of your illness. Hope you're feeling better...

Made some progress, but it's not resolved.

It went into an auto-electrician specialist no less than three times. The first time, he had it for a day, charged me £216 for about four hours labour, and diagnosed it as being the amp that was water damaged and needed replacing. He asked me to acquire a replacement, which I did, and it went back.

Visit No. 2, he fitted the new amp, and after another 4 hours or so of doing whatever he was doing, gave it back and asked me to get a new radio receiver. I did this, and arranged to go back a third time. When I took the car back after the second visit, he left the MMI system completely disconnected (the stack in the boot), which cut off the screen in the dash too. It was clear that whilst the MMI system was disconnected, the battery drain problem stopped.

Visit No. 3, he fitted the new radio receiver, and after a further 4-5 hours of waiting, handed the car back stating that he was completely happy that it was now shutting down properly and was sorted.

Drove the car away. It wasn't sorted. All of the speakers on the right-hand side of the car now no longer worked! He informed me that he was able to watch the car shutdown, by watching the sat-nav DVD player stopped lighting up, and also watching the hazard warning light shut off. He informed me that these were indicators that the car was now "shut down". He informed me that the hazard warning light went off within a few minutes.

That evening, I watched the hazard light after I locked the car. It didn't go off. After ten minutes I was bored with watching it and came back periodically. After this, and all subsequent drives, I can see that it takes approximately 2 hours for the hazard light to go off and consequently the car to actually shut down. I've made the electrician aware that he hasn't fixed the fault at all, and his response was "that's strange!".

So, my car is actually worse than when he started tinkering with it. I've paid him a load of labour, and ordered new amp and new radio receiver. I've also found new fault codes that have never appeared before - ever, after I took her back after Visit No. 3. Namely short/open circuits in the aerial (I presume the amplified aerial that sits above the stack in the same bay?).

So - I'm fairly ****** about it to be honest. It's seemingly clear that the stack in the boot is the root cause. Its seems to be clear that the electrician doesn't appear to know what he's doing, and was simply going through it "piecemeal" by eliminating things (at my cost) sequentially until he stumbled over a fix.

The battery drain is now slightly different, insofar, that it doesn't completely drain the system. It would appear, from what I can determine, that the two hours or so after shut-down drains the battery for this two hour period, and that the drain stops after the car finally shuts down. Therefore, I now find, that when I go back to the car, whether it's one day or three/four days later, the battery is always at 60% of charge according to the battery meter on the car. The car always starts now, and doesn't give me any "low battery" warnings - with the exception of if you make the fatal error of opening/locking the car without driving of charging it, and then leaving it to sit.

Therefore, if you park up and leave the car, it will continue to take two hours to shut down and the battery will discharge to around 60%. If I were to open the car to get something out of it, and then lock it up again, the car would then take another two hours to shut down and this would take the residual battery down to about 10%. It still, just, starts and I'll get a low battery warning in this circumstance. The car will need a good run or specific charging to resolve it. If the battery is allowed to drop to around the 10% mark, it will log the quiesecent error codes as before.

Therefore, something is still causing a drain. I'm going to order a replacement amplified aerial, fit it, and see if this makes a difference. Just found one on eBay. I can see that there water marks on the cabling leading into the aerial, so it looks like it might have got wet when the rear washer-wiper was leaking which is probably the root cause of all of this blinking rigmarole! Will update if the replacement aerial resolves the issue...

What would you do about the electrician? Grin and bear it? Just let it go and put it down to experience?

Also - got to resolve the missing sound from the right-hand side of the car. Would be lucky if he's simply been incompetent and simply didn't connect everything back up together properly, but I don't know.

Yes I'm much better now thank you, sorry to hear your still having problems, I don't know what could cause you to not have sound on one side I'm tempted to say maybe a damaged or dirty pin on a connection plug but I'm not sure as you have other issues with the stack, I don't really know what to say about the auto electrician sometimes on cars the problem isn't what you think but it getting worse isn't really something you should expect when you have paid him and replaced both amp and radio and it shouldn't come back with fault codes not sure about it being the ariel either as from how I read your message that's a new fault so I would say it could mean the problems further down the line but it's hard to say how much of anything has had water get to it, have you checked your connection plugs for damage /etc and also the wires that run to it

[rjsdavis]

Yes I'm much better now thank you, sorry to hear your still having problems, I don't know what could cause you to not have sound on one side I'm tempted to say maybe a damaged or dirty pin on a connection plug but I'm not sure as you have other issues with the stack, I don't really know what to say about the auto electrician sometimes on cars the problem isn't what you think but it getting worse isn't really something you should expect when you have paid him and replaced both amp and radio and it shouldn't come back with fault codes not sure about it being the ariel either as from how I read your message that's a new fault so I would say it could mean the problems further down the line but it's hard to say how much of anything has had water get to it, have you checked your connection plugs for damage /etc and also the wires that run to it

In short - the stack did see some water. When I first got the car I immediately found a water leak from the rear wash/wipe. It was the first thing fixed, but it clearly got water where it shouldn't have been.

This guy has spent so long on the stack, that I took it as read that he'd checked the cables and connections. He reported to me that the Amp and subsequently the radio receiver, had received water and it had shown on the plugs, and had made it onto the circuit board apparently in respect of the amp - hence the two new parts being requested. It has already been tested for new water ingress, and there is no whatsoever. Any water damage is historic and from the known previous leak.

I'll see what the new amplified aerial has to say when it's introduced into the system. I'll be pulling the whole stack out and checking it when I do - so hopefully any dodgy connections or unknown damage will be spotted at that point. I can't imagine that there's anything left to change other than the DVD player!

[Nard666]

Wifes car is a saloon and when changing battery the other day I noticed water in the boot and luckily there was dust and the water had left a trail which was coming form the grommet on the rear face of the wheel well which had a small split, there was literally only a sppon full or two of water but who knows how long it has been elaking for?
Bobbing down and I could clearly see the grommet in the rear bumper gap woughly 1/3 rd in from the passenger side.
Removed grommet applied a bead of silicone, refit smear in silicone done and dry so far.

Which grommet ? The flat ones that seem to have no real reason for being there? I have got a small leak myself not much water but it would seem more than you had, I've checked the grommet in the direction of where mine seems to be coming from but it appears to be in good condition and it was sitting correctly though I'm wondering if it's actually coming somewhere else as it seems to be running along the seams of the panels in the boot, after having the plastics off and the carper up it appears be coming in from the corner by the jack holder but as I say the grommet appears to be fine, I've also had the rear light out on that side as I could see a trickle mark leading from the boot shut and down the back of the light and this leads to the plastic bit underneath the light (I believe these are vents the let heat out as this makes sense on the other side by the stack (amp etc)

[Nard666]

In short - the stack did see some water. When I first got the car I immediately found a water leak from the rear wash/wipe. It was the first thing fixed, but it clearly got water where it shouldn't have been.

This guy has spent so long on the stack, that I took it as read that he'd checked the cables and connections. He reported to me that the Amp and subsequently the radio receiver, had received water and it had shown on the plugs, and had made it onto the circuit board apparently in respect of the amp - hence the two new parts being requested. It has already been tested for new water ingress, and there is no whatsoever. Any water damage is historic and from the known previous leak.

I'll see what the new amplified aerial has to say when it's introduced into the system. I'll be pulling the whole stack out and checking it when I do - so hopefully any dodgy connections or unknown damage will be spotted at that point. I can't imagine that there's anything left to change other than the DVD player!
My boot appears to be taking in water too, trying to trace where it's coming from but it's not massively obvious as it's travelling along the seams of the panels at the back of the boot I've had the grommet out near the furthest point of the seam that water is sitting and it seems to in good condition, interestingly the water runs along the seem and does make it to underneath the battery energy manager

[rjsdavis]

My boot appears to be taking in water too, trying to trace where it's coming from but it's not massively obvious as it's travelling along the seams of the panels at the back of the boot I've had the grommet out near the furthest point of the seam that water is sitting and it seems to in good condition, interestingly the water runs along the seem and does make it to underneath the battery energy manager

I wish you luck trying to source that back to source. The only way I know to track these down is to water down the suspected areas of ingress with a fine plant sprayer, slowly and patiently, looking for water ingress after every application. It's a total ****-ache.

Luckily mine was obviously where it was coming from. The negative was that when I sprayed the rear wash/wipe and nothing was coming out, I tried it two or three more times, holding it on for ages on the last attempt, as I could hear the pump working... but no water. The cracked pipe dumped the entire lot in the amp/DVD bay... FML! It was only pure chance that I happened to go into the Amp stack just after having done this too and found all of the water sploshing down on the electronics!

[Nard666]

I wish you luck trying to source that back to source. The only way I know to track these down is to water down the suspected areas of ingress with a fine plant sprayer, slowly and patiently, looking for water ingress after every application. It's a total ****-ache.

Luckily mine was obviously where it was coming from. The negative was that when I sprayed the rear wash/wipe and nothing was coming out, I tried it two or three more times, holding it on for ages on the last attempt, as I could hear the pump working... but no water. The cracked pipe dumped the entire lot in the amp/DVD bay... FML! It was only pure chance that I happened to go into the Amp stack just after having done this too and found all of the water sploshing down on the electronics!

Tell me about it I put cardboard down on the inside of the car which showed me a main trickle point(not far from the battery regulator under the boot lock) the water was Getting into the spare wheel well but there's no sign of a entry point (kind of) I noticed it was wet all up and down the seam of the panels right the way back to the drivers side rear corner but there still seems to be no obvious point of entry apart from the fact it actually does appear it maybe coming from the seam itself, I've read about audis with sunroofs getting water coming in like from drainholes near the sunroof which run into the boot lid shuts and also about boot lids getting full of water, I have no sunroof and the grommets from the drainholes in the bootlid appear to have already been removed also although the water runs behind the battery regulator /energy manager it runs well away from the connections to it and when battery is low everything that isn't needed seems to shut down ok so the car will Start and I've never noticed this water problem before and I've owned the car for around 5 years so I don't think this actually has anything to do with my powerdrain though of course I'm not ruling it out yet either, it shows that audi are great cars to drive because I'd never have put up with all these problems from a merc a beamer or anything else well maybe a lexus or a Bentley

[rjsdavis]

I suspect the only way is to have someone gently spray water all around the boot cavity (with the boot open) with a garden hose, until you replicate the ingress of water when you hit the right spot, whilst you sit in the boot itself and trace the water back up it's path, as you already know at least one part of it's journey. If it's getting in through a seam, it will be obvious.

[Nard666]

I suspect the only way is to have someone gently spray water all around the boot cavity (with the boot open) with a garden hose, until you replicate the ingress of water when you hit the right spot, whilst you sit in the boot itself and trace the water back up it's path, as you already know at least one part of it's journey. If it's getting in through a seam, it will be obvious.

That is what it seems to be... Coming through the seams though I can't see why it would come through the seams at that point? Puzzling the other only thing I could think is maybe it's coming from the vents at the corners underneath the bumper but that would be some effort to get to the seam from there unless it fills the corner underneath the vent but there would surely be visible evidence of that happening....

[rjsdavis]

Seems unlikely though. It would require pressure/gravity to get through a seam, which, depending on exactly where you suspect it is coming from, is more likely to be getting in higher up and simply running down the inside of the seam. Just a thought.

[Nard666]

Seems unlikely though. It would require pressure/gravity to get through a seam, which, depending on exactly where you suspect it is coming from, is more likely to be getting in higher up and simply running down the inside of the seam. Just a thought.

Now see this was my thoughts exactly and your probably right although the problem with that is I have read on a few threads about people having that happen admittedly they tended to be avants and sometimes cars with sunroofs and one guy that had cracks in his seam sealants but it did seem by what I read that drainholes usually seemed to be the problem which often run inside the panels and as audi owners we both know what a pigs ear audi make when it comes to drainholes unfortunately Im not sure on where all the drainholes are on my car some I know but who knows what I could be missing but given some nicer weather I will be checking out everything I can,anyway how are you getting on with your issues at the minute? Have you at least regained all your speakers yet?

[rjsdavis]

Mine is an Avant with sunroof. The drain holes for this are 2x at the front that pop out just below the A-pillar by the door hinge, and 2x at the rear, which follow a pipe that come down on top of the rear wheel arch above the wheel arch cover - neither of them come anywhere near the boot cavity really. As you've already said that you don't have a sunroof, this won't be relevant in any case. I would have thought that the only way you're going to get to the bottom of it, is list down all of your suspected ingress points, sit in the boot and have someone gently shower each point with a garden hose until you get some ingress. Start at the lowest suspected point of ingress and work your way towards the highest suspect. It's still a total ****-ache.

Made no progress on my power drain or speakers. Have now got a replacement amplified aerial, but haven't had decent enough weather to spend a couple of hours putting it in, and going through all of the wiring slowly to see if the speaker issue was just a loose connection, or is linked to one of the replacement parts (radio receiver and / or amp) that was fitted. Will no doubt be a sequence of deduction on that one....

[lynalldiscovery]

Which grommet ? The flat ones that seem to have no real reason for being there? I have got a small leak myself not much water but it would seem more than you had, I've checked the grommet in the direction of where mine seems to be coming from but it appears to be in good condition and it was sitting correctly though I'm wondering if it's actually coming somewhere else as it seems to be running along the seams of the panels in the boot, after having the plastics off and the carper up it appears be coming in from the corner by the jack holder but as I say the grommet appears to be fine, I've also had the rear light out on that side as I could see a trickle mark leading from the boot shut and down the back of the light and this leads to the plastic bit underneath the light (I believe these are vents the let heat out as this makes sense on the other side by the stack (amp etc)

Imagine standing square on to the back of the car with the boot open and the floor lifted up, place your left hand forwards and down the inside of the spare wheel well and the grommet is there, about 2 inches diameter.

[Nard666]

Imagine standing square on to the back of the car with the boot open and the floor lifted up, place your left hand forwards and down the inside of the spare wheel well and the grommet is there, about 2 inches diameter.

Yeah the flat one by the sounds of it

[Nard666]

Mine is an Avant with sunroof. The drain holes for this are 2x at the front that pop out just below the A-pillar by the door hinge, and 2x at the rear, which follow a pipe that come down on top of the rear wheel arch above the wheel arch cover - neither of them come anywhere near the boot cavity really. As you've already said that you don't have a sunroof, this won't be relevant in any case. I would have thought that the only way you're going to get to the bottom of it, is list down all of your suspected ingress points, sit in the boot and have someone gently shower each point with a garden hose until you get some ingress. Start at the lowest suspected point of ingress and work your way towards the highest suspect. It's still a total ****-ache.

Made no progress on my power drain or speakers. Have now got a replacement amplified aerial, but haven't had decent enough weather to spend a couple of hours putting it in, and going through all of the wiring slowly to see if the speaker issue was just a loose connection, or is linked to one of the replacement parts (radio receiver and / or amp) that was fitted. Will no doubt be a sequence of deduction on that one....

Trouble is by the amount that's getting in I'm guessing it will take a big amount of spraying down to trace it and unfortunately as I live in flats I don't really have a hose or a way of using one and I've not been able to trace any water to show a point of entry into the car even after going out to it directly after the rain has stopped so I figure it being very difficult even if I sat in the boot

Yeah Im with you on a weather, I'm in the same position and I've got a couple of things I really wanted to look at before my mot is due and that's coming quickly in fact I want to get my mot booked asap as it's up on the 14th, well I hope you get to the bottom of it soon and without any further problems or money needed

[rjsdavis]

May have to go down that route if the new receiver doesn't shut down the system as it should...

Trying to keep this thing from spirally totally out of control!

Ok - so I'm now even more confused by this damn electrical glitch than I was before!

So - I have followed all of the instructions/suggestions from the auto-electrician. It turned out that the first replacement radio tuner I received was faulty, but a third now means that the MMI system is running properly, with no further "self-shutdown" glitches, auto-resetting gltiches, or "self-muting" glitches. In short, since the working radio tuner has been fitted, MMI works as it should.

However, I still have the shut-down issue that is quite right. Previously, the electrician determined that the car wasn't shutting down at all, and that it was this was causing the large drain of the system, that meant that after 24-48 hours of being parked, the car was unstartable with no battery power.

Whislt this is no longer the case, the car is now taking about 2 hours to shut down instead of just a few minutes.

The original amp was also replaced, and curiously, this worked ok as far as we could see, however, it didn't cure the power drain issue. The first replacement radio tuner was fitted, and this also didn't cure the battery drain problem, and the MMI system was still playing around.

A second radio tuner was ordered and fitted, and whilst this cured the MMI rebooting problems, when I picked the car up from the electrician, I found that the speakers on the right-side of the car stopped working properly. I was reluctant to keep going back to the electrician, as it seemed to me that he was simply "guessing" at what component to change - it was a case of, "Let's try changing this and see what happens". When this didn't work we'd then change the next component etc etc etc.

I started to investigate myself, and VCDS was reporting open circuits in the amplified aerial, that came in under the radio tuner section of the VCDS report. I bought and fitted a replacement amplified aerial (that was a right fiddly bugger to fit), but it made no difference to the open circuits being reported by VCDS.

It then occurred to me that the fault might have laid within the replacement radio tuner itself. I ordered and then fitted a second radio tuner. This worked. No more open circuit faults being reported within VCDS at all (with either amplified aerial), and MMI was working as it should with no gremlins. I still only had sound from the N/S of the car though!

I checked and tried the original amp (that had received a dousing when the rear wash/wipe had leaked), and it seemed to work just fine. There was evidence of some green corrosion on some of the pins, but I cleaned this off with some Deblocker and cotton bud / toothbrush until they were clean. Also cleaned the electrical plug up too. The original amp cures the speaker problem (all work when it is fitted), but I still have the irritating 2 hour shutdown issue (which I already had before the original amp was re-fitted back into the car).

So, I've now got a fully working MMI system, sound from all speakers, but still a 2 hour shutdown.

I determined that the original amp might have water damaged (the main board) regardless of the plugs being thoroughly cleaned up, and decided to buy a second amp. This arrived a few days ago, and upon fitting, just like the first replacement amp, this also stopped the O/S speakers from working! Worse - VCDS was also reporting an open circuit fault from this second replacement amp, which returned immediately when it was cleared. Put the original amp back in - all speakers work and no open circuit faults in the system.

Could it just be very bad luck indeed, and BOTH replacement amps that I have purchased both had faults? This is where I'm struggling a bit, as it's hard to accept, but not impossible. Anywho, the second replacement amp will be on it's way back to the seller shortly, and I'm probably not going to bother getting a third replacement.

But here lies my quandry. With the original amp now fitted back in, the second replacement radio tuner fitted, the MMI system still works. A VCDS scan now reports NO FAULTS WHATSOEVER (which is brill news), but I've still got the 2 hour shutdown problem. Granted, it's not stopping the car from starting, but it's irritating me ENORMOUSLY, as I want to fix it. Where to go next with it?

Also - in the last two days, I've got a new min oil level fault showing up on the dash. It's reporting to me that the oil level has dropped below minimum, and this is not the first time this has happened - however, on the occasions where it has happened before, a top-up of about 0.75l of oil, refills the engine enough the warning goes. This time it hasn't - AAAAAAARRTRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH.

I've put an extra 1.5l into the engine, and my reading of the dipstick is that it's now slightly overfilled (not worried about that), but concerned why the fault warning isn't clearing!! W H Y ? I'm reading the oil level cold. When I dip and remove the dipstick, clean her off, and dip her again, it's clearly showing me that the oil level is a little over the max notch. In the back of my mind, I'm thinking that it could just be an electrical fault issue that is related to whatever is causing the slow shut-down of the car. Before I got to the bottom of the underlying MMI problems, I was beset with oil temperature failure warnings, which persisted after changing the oil level / temp sensor with a brand new gen unit, and wasn't cured until the electrical issues were cured.

What to do about the engine oil? I know the engine has plenty of oil in it!! and.... still no faults being reported within VCDS. FML! :zx11:

[Nard666]

Ok - so I'm now even more confused by this damn electrical glitch than I was before!

So - I have followed all of the instructions/suggestions from the auto-electrician. It turned out that the first replacement radio tuner I received was faulty, but a third now means that the MMI system is running properly, with no further "self-shutdown" glitches, auto-resetting gltiches, or "self-muting" glitches. In short, since the working radio tuner has been fitted, MMI works as it should.

However, I still have the shut-down issue that is quite right. Previously, the electrician determined that the car wasn't shutting down at all, and that it was this was causing the large drain of the system, that meant that after 24-48 hours of being parked, the car was unstartable with no battery power.

Whislt this is no longer the case, the car is now taking about 2 hours to shut down instead of just a few minutes.

The original amp was also replaced, and curiously, this worked ok as far as we could see, however, it didn't cure the power drain issue. The first replacement radio tuner was fitted, and this also didn't cure the battery drain problem, and the MMI system was still playing around.

A second radio tuner was ordered and fitted, and whilst this cured the MMI rebooting problems, when I picked the car up from the electrician, I found that the speakers on the right-side of the car stopped working properly. I was reluctant to keep going back to the electrician, as it seemed to me that he was simply "guessing" at what component to change - it was a case of, "Let's try changing this and see what happens". When this didn't work we'd then change the next component etc etc etc.

I started to investigate myself, and VCDS was reporting open circuits in the amplified aerial, that came in under the radio tuner section of the VCDS report. I bought and fitted a replacement amplified aerial (that was a right fiddly bugger to fit), but it made no difference to the open circuits being reported by VCDS.

It then occurred to me that the fault might have laid within the replacement radio tuner itself. I ordered and then fitted a second radio tuner. This worked. No more open circuit faults being reported within VCDS at all (with either amplified aerial), and MMI was working as it should with no gremlins. I still only had sound from the N/S of the car though!

I checked and tried the original amp (that had received a dousing when the rear wash/wipe had leaked), and it seemed to work just fine. There was evidence of some green corrosion on some of the pins, but I cleaned this off with some Deblocker and cotton bud / toothbrush until they were clean. Also cleaned the electrical plug up too. The original amp cures the speaker problem (all work when it is fitted), but I still have the irritating 2 hour shutdown issue (which I already had before the original amp was re-fitted back into the car).

So, I've now got a fully working MMI system, sound from all speakers, but still a 2 hour shutdown.

I determined that the original amp might have water damaged (the main board) regardless of the plugs being thoroughly cleaned up, and decided to buy a second amp. This arrived a few days ago, and upon fitting, just like the first replacement amp, this also stopped the O/S speakers from working! Worse - VCDS was also reporting an open circuit fault from this second replacement amp, which returned immediately when it was cleared. Put the original amp back in - all speakers work and no open circuit faults in the system.

Could it just be very bad luck indeed, and BOTH replacement amps that I have purchased both had faults? This is where I'm struggling a bit, as it's hard to accept, but not impossible. Anywho, the second replacement amp will be on it's way back to the seller shortly, and I'm probably not going to bother getting a third replacement.

But here lies my quandry. With the original amp now fitted back in, the second replacement radio tuner fitted, the MMI system still works. A VCDS scan now reports NO FAULTS WHATSOEVER (which is brill news), but I've still got the 2 hour shutdown problem. Granted, it's not stopping the car from starting, but it's irritating me ENORMOUSLY, as I want to fix it. Where to go next with it?

Also - in the last two days, I've got a new min oil level fault showing up on the dash. It's reporting to me that the oil level has dropped below minimum, and this is not the first time this has happened - however, on the occasions where it has happened before, a top-up of about 0.75l of oil, refills the engine enough the warning goes. This time it hasn't - AAAAAAARRTRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH.

I've put an extra 1.5l into the engine, and my reading of the dipstick is that it's now slightly overfilled (not worried about that), but concerned why the fault warning isn't clearing!! W H Y ? I'm reading the oil level cold. When I dip and remove the dipstick, clean her off, and dip her again, it's clearly showing me that the oil level is a little over the max notch. In the back of my mind, I'm thinking that it could just be an electrical fault issue that is related to whatever is causing the slow shut-down of the car. Before I got to the bottom of the underlying MMI problems, I was beset with oil temperature failure warnings, which persisted after changing the oil level / temp sensor with a brand new gen unit, and wasn't cured until the electrical issues were cured.

What to do about the engine oil? I know the engine has plenty of oil in it!! and.... still no faults being reported within VCDS. FML! :zx11:

Hmmm that's nuts I don't really know what to suggest, maybe you have a fried loom or something? Or the control unit in the dash although would have thought that would throw up a code

[Nard666]

Hmmm that's nuts I don't really know what to suggest, maybe you have a fried loom or something? Or the control unit in the dash although would have thought that would throw up a code
Something definitely seems off, and a slow shut-down would still drain your battery just more slowly than it had previously

[Nard666]

Hmmm that's nuts I don't really know what to suggest, maybe you have a fried loom or something? Or the control unit in the dash although would have thought that would throw up a code


Something definitely seems off, and a slow shut-down would still drain your battery just more slowly than it had previously

How's your fuseboxs looking? Have you had the lids off all of them? Is there signs of water having got into the ones under the scuttle panel?

[rjsdavis]

Something definitely seems off, and a slow shut-down would still drain your battery just more slowly than it had previously

Tell me about it - it's pretty annoying. However, for now, I've come to the end of everything that I can do to resolve this!

It can't be a fried loom, otherwise one or more components simply wouldn't work at all. Everything works, exactly as it should. The only "fault" is the delayed shut-down which takes about 2 hours for the car to fully shut down. This is an improvement over before, as before, it wouldn't actually shut down at all! (hence the battery being killed and drained and the car previously being unstartable after 24-48 hours or so).

All of the fuse boxes have been checked and are in good order, with zero signs of water ingress.

[Nard666]

Tell me about it - it's pretty annoying. However, for now, I've come to the end of everything that I can do to resolve this!

It can't be a fried loom, otherwise one or more components simply wouldn't work at all. Everything works, exactly as it should. The only "fault" is the delayed shut-down which takes about 2 hours for the car to fully shut down. This is an improvement over before, as before, it wouldn't actually shut down at all! (hence the battery being killed and drained and the car previously being unstartable after 24-48 hours or so).

All of the fuse boxes have been checked and are in good order, with zero signs of water ingress.

Good point about the loom, I was just thinking it's weird to have so many problematic replacement components and it seems one problem solved just creates another problem, on your VCDS scans did you get anything come back as dodgy from the control unit in the dash? If I'm correct (I haven't looked at the control unit lay out for a while this one takes a lead over the others

[Nard666]

Good point about the loom, I was just thinking it's weird to have so many problematic replacement components and it seems one problem solved just creates another problem, on your VCDS scans did you get anything come back as dodgy from the control unit in the dash? If I'm correct (I haven't looked at the control unit lay out for a while this one takes a lead over the others

I still have my power drain and at the moment I'm worried about trying to trace it due to the problems you have experienced, my car shuts down fairly quickly though I've not timed it, when starting the car it seems to lack the power required to start it but if left for a few minutes power seems to make its way to it after initially turning on the ignition and my battery drains over the course of a year or just under and I'm also currently going through bulbs in a big way in the rear lights so I'd say this down to condensation in the lights which is a known issue for these cars though it's never gone through so many bulbs since I've had it as it currently is

[Nard666]

I still have my power drain and at the moment I'm worried about trying to trace it due to the problems you have experienced, my car shuts down fairly quickly though I've not timed it, when starting the car it seems to lack the power required to start it but if left for a few minutes power seems to make its way to it after initially turning on the ignition and my battery drains over the course of a year or just under and I'm also currently going through bulbs in a big way in the rear lights so I'd say this down to condensation in the lights which is a known issue for these cars though it's never gone through so many bulbs since I've had it as it currently is

Oh and this is a new one I took a drive down to the coast the other day only about an hour and 45 down the road stopped the car in a car park decided to use a different car park so I went to start it I had power but the car just wouldn't start I took so many attempts at it the battery started to sound very weak left the car there went back to it in about 2 -3 hours and it started but made a fluttery sound like a plastic bag blowing in the wind hasn't happened since but I take things like that as a warning, haven't been able to do a scan due to mot having a computer at the minute but I'm a little worried by it

[rjsdavis]

Good point about the loom, I was just thinking it's weird to have so many problematic replacement components and it seems one problem solved just creates another problem, on your VCDS scans did you get anything come back as dodgy from the control unit in the dash? If I'm correct (I haven't looked at the control unit lay out for a while this one takes a lead over the others

This is the most frustrating part of it all - VCDS is completely clear. No faults whatsoever. At least, previously, it would throw up error codes that would point you in the right direction...

According to the electrician that checked out my car, and pointed the faults back to the amp/radio stack, he claims that you can watch the car shut down, and when the hazard warning light on the dash goes out - this means that your car has shut down fully.

Mine is taking more than 2 hours to shut down after a drive. Then, at least, it does go off and stay off. Curiously, if you were to open the car to retrieve something and then lock it again, the car shuts down in just a few minutes (which is usual). I don't understand why it's still "active" for as long as it is after proper use, but an unlock / lock sequence seems to cause it no bother at all.

[Nard666]

This is the most frustrating part of it all - VCDS is completely clear. No faults whatsoever. At least, previously, it would throw up error codes that would point you in the right direction...

According to the electrician that checked out my car, and pointed the faults back to the amp/radio stack, he claims that you can watch the car shut down, and when the hazard warning light on the dash goes out - this means that your car has shut down fully.

Mine is taking more than 2 hours to shut down after a drive. Then, at least, it does go off and stay off. Curiously, if you were to open the car to retrieve something and then lock it again, the car shuts down in just a few minutes (which is usual). I don't understand why it's still "active" for as long as it is after proper use, but an unlock / lock sequence seems to cause it no bother at all.

Hmmm puzzling,sorry I'm of no further help at the minute but I will give it all a bit of thought and if I get the chance, I'll research a little bit obviously I have problems with my own motor at the minute so will have to be in free time around that,have you tried Google for car type and the symptoms you have?

[rjsdavis]

have you tried Google for car type and the symptoms you have?

I have indeed - this forum was the only place on the net that I can find, that comes anywhere close to similar electrical problems.

I can't the same problem on an A6, anywhere else. :-(

[Nard666]

I have indeed - this forum was the only place on the net that I can find, that comes anywhere close to similar electrical problems.

I can't the same problem on an A6, anywhere else. :-(

I came across some old threads on here when I googled they were from around 2012 and were for the a6. Pistonheads came back with some results too but not sure if they were for the a6 didn't have time to read through them but will go through them for you when I have some free time hopefully we will get our cars sorted at somepoint, audi's are great cars unfortunately they seem to come with some problems here or there (newish cars apparently no exception from what I've come across)

[Nard666]

I have indeed - this forum was the only place on the net that I can find, that comes anywhere close to similar electrical problems.

I can't the same problem on an A6, anywhere else. :-(

Have you tried the tests available in VCDS I.e output tests, optical bus diagnostics (I'm not good with all this electrical stuff but test functions was just a thought)
I've tried to do my battery coding tonight........ How did you get on with yours? I did what I was told to do in the ross tech wiki and after clicking on do it I got this message come up: re-code invalid this appears to be a uninitiated control module.
Do you have any ideas on what that's about or what I'm doing wrong?

[rjsdavis]

Have you tried the tests available in VCDS I.e output tests, optical bus diagnostics (I'm not good with all this electrical stuff but test functions was just a thought)
I've tried to do my battery coding tonight........ How did you get on with yours? I did what I was told to do in the ross tech wiki and after clicking on do it I got this message come up: re-code invalid this appears to be a uninitiated control module.
Do you have any ideas on what that's about or what I'm doing wrong?

I haven't tried those tests within VCDS, as to be honest, whilst I computer super-user, I'm still a novice with VCDS! I don't particularly know what I'm looking for, or looking at to know whether the data is right or wrong! I'm sure it might well be in there though, and you're probably on the right lines.

With respect to the battery coding, I couldn't do it either. VCDS is so limited in terms of battery manufacturer's that you can choose from; Excell and some others, I wasn't able to input the data at all from the battery I got from TPS, as Yuasa isn't a manufacturer option - which is strange given that Yuasa is now the preferred/recommended battery supplier to the VAG/TPS group! In the end, all I could think to do was leave the original Audi OEM battery data in situ, and change the code data with one digit to hopefully "notify" the car's system that a new battery had been installed. Couldn't find a better solution or alternative option online from looking either....

[Nard666]

I haven't tried those tests within VCDS, as to be honest, whilst I computer super-user, I'm still a novice with VCDS! I don't particularly know what I'm looking for, or looking at to know whether the data is right or wrong! I'm sure it might well be in there though, and you're probably on the right lines.

With respect to the battery coding, I couldn't do it either. VCDS is so limited in terms of battery manufacturer's that you can choose from; Excell and some others, I wasn't able to input the data at all from the battery I got from TPS, as Yuasa isn't a manufacturer option - which is strange given that Yuasa is now the preferred/recommended battery supplier to the VAG/TPS group! In the end, all I could think to do was leave the original Audi OEM battery data in situ, and change the code data with one digit to hopefully "notify" the car's system that a new battery had been installed. Couldn't find a better solution or alternative option online from looking either....

I know what you mean, I'm not good with computers and am also a novice with VCDS, there is a downloadable user manual which explains the tests , I stumbled across it accidentally but I'm sure if you Google ross-tech VCDS user manual it would come up on the search, hope this helps. Yeah I've watched my hazard warning triangle fade and go off I've not timed it but it doesn't take long.
Yes that's what I want to do just change the last digit on the serial number, my battery is a bosch which is made by varta which is the manufacturer used on our cars originally but I don't have a bem sticker so can only change the last digit like that but when I tried I got the message saying recode invalid control module uninitiated though I had followed what ross-tech had done in the video

[rjsdavis]

but I don't have a bem sticker

I had the exact same issue - hence simply changing a single digit on the existing code that was already present in the system. It updated without any issue, but I'm completely unaware if it actually made any difference at all!

[Nard666]

I had the exact same issue - hence simply changing a single digit on the existing code that was already present in the system. It updated without any issue, but I'm completely unaware if it actually made any difference at all!

Yeah that's what I intended to do but it wouldn't let me, got the message re-code invalid this module appears to uninitiated instead though I think I've now sussed that one from scouting about online it appears that either the module is new or it hasn't had a battery adapted to it previously after the original battery was put into the car, what you then do is input a code of something like 12345 as the workshop code (must be done on the control module screen, can be done in vcds under options but it would only let you do it once and it stays that way so you wouldn't be able to run vcds in stealth mode, do it on the module screen and you are still running in stealth mode) then it will let me do it.
Did you look for the vcds users manual? It's quite informative.... To a certain degree

[rjsdavis]

Did you look for the vcds users manual? It's quite informative.... To a certain degree

Yes, I've downloaded it, but not yet had time to actually read it... !

[rjsdavis]

Up until Friday, everything within the MMI system was working fine. On the very odd occasion, the lights within the MMI control panel in the centre console would not light up when the car was started, but re-starting the engine would always solve this. It would happen probably 2-3 times per year.

Last Friday, it happened again, and an engine restart fixed this and caused the control panel lights to come on. However, this time, whilst driving the car and during the journey, the lights in the control panel just went out, but this time, it caused the screen in the dashboard to turn off as well. Curiously, my phone was still connected to the system via Bluetooth, and it continued to stream and play music even though the MMI panel and screen were off, however, the volume was fixed and neither the volume button on the MMI control panel, or the steering wheel could alter the music volume. It appeared to me that the MMI control panel had just died there and then. Nothing had been changed, no MMI updates, nothing had been spilled on it, and there's no water ingress in the MMI stack in the boot - it's as dry as a bone in there. It just died.

During the rest of the day, engine restarts failed to make any difference, and the MMI control panel and screen has remained off ever since. I’ve done a full VCDS scan of the car, and the only faults showing are all MMI related, in that it simply says:

07-Control Head -- Status: Cannot be reached 1100
0E-Media Player 1 -- Status: Cannot be reached 1100
37-Navigation -- Status: Cannot be reached 1100
47-Sound System -- Status: Cannot be reached 1100
56-Radio -- Status: Cannot be reached 1100

Worse, the car wasn't used again until the Sunday morning. Come Sunday morning, the car battery was as flat as a pancake and would not turn over or even unlock from the key remote. It's clear that the system remained on for about 36 hours and completely drained the battery flat. It was charged all day Sunday, and the car started and runs fine and has done ever since. As a precaution, as the MMI system was down, I disconnected the large cable connector from the amp in the boot at the top of the stack, and the car system now shuts down in just a few minutes, and there is now no battery drain (you'll see above, that I have had drain issues for months!). The one positive to come out of this, is that the part-battery drain I've been trying to diagnose for months, is definitely, and without doubt caused from within the MMI system. I now never have any battery warnings on the dash when I go to start the car, the spotlights and rear lights always now come on when you unlock the car in the evenings even if she's been sitting around for a day or two (this didn't happen if the car had been left for a while, as the battery was part-draining, as it was taking the best part of 2-2.5 hours to shut down).

All other systems are ok. I've become aware from research in the RossTech forums, that the MMI system optical bus is a big loop, with the CAN gateway as the starting point, going onto the control head, and then onto the individual MMI components finishing with the radio tuner and then coming back to the CAN gateway again. Given that the CAN gateway is reporting ok in the VCDS scan, does this automatically point to the Control Head as the culprit that is stopping the loop from going any further, as it is first in the "faulty" list and has taken out every other module in the loop that follows it? My gut feeling is that the control panel in the dash is the faulty unit anyway given what happened, and because it's actually faulty, then remained an open or live circuit after the car was shut down last Friday, causing the battery to drain - this all appears to be logical to me.

Therefore, my question is; is the MMI control panel in the centre panel of the car, also the “Control Head” as reported by VCDS?

Assuming that this is yes - I'll get onto getting a replacement control panel / control head asap. I'm watching one on eBay at the moment, and a quick question about compatibility... My car is a 2007 A6. On the control panel, the button below RADIO is MEDIA on mine. The one I'm watching has TV / CD on the button instead of MEDIA.

I don't mind this, but would it be reasonable to expect any compatibility issues between the two?

[rjsdavis]

Up until Friday, everything within the MMI system was working fine. On the very odd occasion, the lights within the MMI control panel in the centre console would not light up when the car was started, but re-starting the engine would always solve this. It would happen probably 2-3 times per year.

Last Friday, it happened again, and an engine restart fixed this and caused the control panel lights to come on. However, this time, whilst driving the car and during the journey, the lights in the control panel just went out, but this time, it caused the screen in the dashboard to turn off as well. Curiously, my phone was still connected to the system via Bluetooth, and it continued to stream and play music even though the MMI panel and screen were off, however, the volume was fixed and neither the volume button on the MMI control panel, or the steering wheel could alter the music volume. It appeared to me that the MMI control panel had just died there and then. Nothing had been changed, no MMI updates, nothing had been spilled on it, and there's no water ingress in the MMI stack in the boot - it's as dry as a bone in there. It just died.

During the rest of the day, engine restarts failed to make any difference, and the MMI control panel and screen has remained off ever since. I’ve done a full VCDS scan of the car, and the only faults showing are all MMI related, in that it simply says:

07-Control Head -- Status: Cannot be reached 1100
0E-Media Player 1 -- Status: Cannot be reached 1100
37-Navigation -- Status: Cannot be reached 1100
47-Sound System -- Status: Cannot be reached 1100
56-Radio -- Status: Cannot be reached 1100

Worse, the car wasn't used again until the Sunday morning. Come Sunday morning, the car battery was as flat as a pancake and would not turn over or even unlock from the key remote. It's clear that the system remained on for about 36 hours and completely drained the battery flat. It was charged all day Sunday, and the car started and runs fine and has done ever since. As a precaution, as the MMI system was down, I disconnected the large cable connector from the amp in the boot at the top of the stack, and the car system now shuts down in just a few minutes, and there is now no battery drain (you'll see above, that I have had drain issues for months!). The one positive to come out of this, is that the part-battery drain I've been trying to diagnose for months, is definitely, and without doubt caused from within the MMI system. I now never have any battery warnings on the dash when I go to start the car, the spotlights and rear lights always now come on when you unlock the car in the evenings even if she's been sitting around for a day or two (this didn't happen if the car had been left for a while, as the battery was part-draining, as it was taking the best part of 2-2.5 hours to shut down).

All other systems are ok. I've become aware from research in the RossTech forums, that the MMI system optical bus is a big loop, with the CAN gateway as the starting point, going onto the control head, and then onto the individual MMI components finishing with the radio tuner and then coming back to the CAN gateway again. Given that the CAN gateway is reporting ok in the VCDS scan, does this automatically point to the Control Head as the culprit that is stopping the loop from going any further, as it is first in the "faulty" list and has taken out every other module in the loop that follows it? My gut feeling is that the control panel in the dash is the faulty unit anyway given what happened, and because it's actually faulty, then remained an open or live circuit after the car was shut down last Friday, causing the battery to drain - this all appears to be logical to me.

Therefore, my question is; is the MMI control panel in the centre panel of the car, also the “Control Head” as reported by VCDS?

Assuming that this is yes - I'll get onto getting a replacement control panel / control head asap. I'm watching one on eBay at the moment, and a quick question about compatibility... My car is a 2007 A6. On the control panel, the button below RADIO is MEDIA on mine. The one I'm watching has TV / CD on the button instead of MEDIA.

I don't mind this, but would it be reasonable to expect any compatibility issues between the two?

So, I managed to get hold of a replacement MMI control panel a few weeks after the system died, and finally found both the time, and some reasonably not effing freezing cold weather today, to spend the several hours that I needed to pull the centre console out to get to the MMI control panel to plug the new one in.

Gutted to report, that plugging the new MMI control panel into the system made no difference whatsoever, and the entire MMI system is still completely dead!

VCDS still reports all of the systems as being "CANNOT BE REACHED", therefore, I am assuming that there is another central "brain" to the system tucked away somewhere that has likely died, and is preventing VCDS from communicating with all parts of the system?

Can someone please point me in the right direction as to what I need to get access to, and replace to get the MMI up and running again?

Many thanks indeed for any responses.

[rjsdavis]

So, I managed to get hold of a replacement MMI control panel a few weeks after the system died, and finally found both the time, and some reasonably not effing freezing cold weather today, to spend the several hours that I needed to pull the centre console out to get to the MMI control panel to plug the new one in.

Gutted to report, that plugging the new MMI control panel into the system made no difference whatsoever, and the entire MMI system is still completely dead!

VCDS still reports all of the systems as being "CANNOT BE REACHED", therefore, I am assuming that there is another central "brain" to the system tucked away somewhere that has likely died, and is preventing VCDS from communicating with all parts of the system?

Can someone please point me in the right direction as to what I need to get access to, and replace to get the MMI up and running again?

Many thanks indeed for any responses.

RESOLVED!

Ok, so it was the Control Head all along. GGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

In the end, it was the Control Head, that finally failed as a unit, taking the whole MMI system out with it. It is now clear, now that I understand the system a little better, that the previous MMI related gremlins, were actually early indicators that the Control Head was a failing unit - leading upto the failure. These early indicators were:

1 - Loss of sound - only resolvable by an MMI system reset.
2 - Loss of MMI screen - only resolvable by an MMI system reset.
3 - Sometimes the MMI control panel lights didn't come on - only resolvable by a full engine restart
4 - Causing the car to take an awfully long time to shut-down, sometimes never shutting down, leading to a massive power drain from the battery - signs of the system not going off were the hazard light indicator on the main dash never going off, or taking a very long time to go off - which indicates when the car has actually shut down and stopped drawing power.

I sourced a replacement Control Head from a breaker on eBay (£25), which I couldn't order until I had removed my one, to make sure I had an exact parts number match - there are variances.

I was able to fit the CH myself, but it was immediately clear from a VCDS scan, that Component Protection was active (which to be fair I was expecting). After a lot of searching around, with prices mostly ranging from £100-150 to remove CP, I found CT Cars in Surrey, who charged me the very fair price of £40 to do it - while I waited, with coffee - on an appointment basis. They were brilliant, very fair and went about their business without any fuss or problem. Big shout out to those guys!

This was actually completed about two months ago now, but I've been running the car to make sure all was well before I shared it. I've had zero problems with it. The MMI has given me no jip whatsoever, so the CP removal was permanent. I've had no further power drain issues at all - and the CH is the only part that has been changed in the car's entire system. I now have a completely clear VCDS scan, which is totally awesome as I haven't had one of those in a long old time!

Many thanks for all of the posts and replies that have helped me to slowly work out what was wrong with my car. Even the electrical specialists in Sandwich weren't even able to close to diagnosing it - and simply wanted to replace individual components until they eventually found the culprit.

[dan2485]

Great Update and result.

in Audi SSP 286 it shows that MMI units have internal PSU's, which would suggest that the control head PSU was the issue and the battery regulator was reporting this.

Did any of the Scans show the fault in the Control head as this could be a good precursor to a module failing.

If not then without donor item this could a pain identify a culprit until it fails like yours did.

[rjsdavis]

Great Update and result.

in Audi SSP 286 it shows that MMI units have internal PSU's, which would suggest that the control head PSU was the issue and the battery regulator was reporting this.

Did any of the Scans show the fault in the Control head as this could be a good precursor to a module failing.

If not then without donor item this could a pain identify a culprit until it fails like yours did.

Sadly, prior to the unit actually failing, there was no mention of it whatsoever on any scan... which is what made a major pain to have tracked down prior to failure. I'm not even sure that it could have been, as the gremlins that were occurring before it failed, were intermittent and simply aggravating. However, it is likely that other failing CH units will probably exhibit similar intermittent failure traits.

It's even worse than just having a donor unit - given that it would also need CP removal as well! All in all, a very expensive potential test if you don't have access to a live copy of ODIS!

[dan2485]

You can get FVDI to remove cp for around £200 to £250.

If you are looking to keep the car then it is worth the investment.

[rjsdavis]

You can get FVDI to remove cp for around £200 to £250.

If you are looking to keep the car then it is worth the investment.

I've seen the Abrites video for removing CP on YouTube - and it looked like just the job, but I'd heard from elsewhere that you need to have a link into the ODIS/VAG database to be able to remove CP / program keys and so on...

Do you have FVDI/Abrites and is it reliable?

[Paddyposh]

Sorry to jump in here randomly.
Hi Dan,

Tried to PM regarding a VCDS check as I am local to you, but says your inbox is full.

Are you able to reach out to me to discuss?

Cheers
Pat

[dan2485]

PM me now.

[Paddyposh]

Will do cheers

[Paddyposh]

.

[roy.stubbs@talk]

Hi
I hope you are well?
I have arrived at your thread as I have a dreaded MMI/Battery drain issue.
I have lived with it for a looooooooong time now, but its finally got my goat!:1zhelp:
The Car is an A6 C6 2006 2.0 TDI.
The fault has been very inconsistent and the car over the years has been in and out of the dealers, Its had a two new batteries in its time, both coded to the car. Its had the MMI update (which removes the battery level indecator) and a new lead between the starter motor and the connection box (in the wiper motor compartment where it spilts the front to rear loom) as there was a high resistance in the crimp at the jump start point (evedent by the fact it started to melt the housing around it) causing low charging voltage to the battery.
Every time I think I've fixed it, some months/weeks/days later it does it again!
So today i went to it, failed to start.....
My question to you is: When you say control head, do you mean the buttons controls around the gear stick? and if so, is there a module attached to it, or does it just relay messages/send commands to all the satalite modules (Amp, Tuner, CD,Phone etc) dotted about.
I don't appear to have the consistent shutting down issue you had or the loss of sound from speakers, but I'm wondering if its starting up by it's self, or maybe not shutdown properly every time!
Also whats making me think it could be the cause is from time to time I have the non illumination of the buttons, and the occastional swithing of of the system.
Any advice would be graetly recieved...
Also, where did you find the part number? is it possible to get a look at it without removing it all?
Thanks in advance
Roy

[dan2485]

Goggle 'audi ssp326' and 'audi ssp 286'.

To learn about the system before you start changing items at will.

If you get a most loop bypass lead then you can disconect the ancillary items one at a time to see if the battery drain fault disappears, ie all the items with a fibre optic link have PSU's in them.

Leave the control unit J523 till the end.

[rjsdavis]

Hi
So today i went to it, failed to start.....
My question to you is: When you say control head, do you mean the buttons controls around the gear stick? and if so, is there a module attached to it, or does it just relay messages/send commands to all the satalite modules (Amp, Tuner, CD,Phone etc) dotted about.
I don't appear to have the consistent shutting down issue you had or the loss of sound from speakers, but I'm wondering if its starting up by it's self, or maybe not shutdown properly every time!
Also whats making me think it could be the cause is from time to time I have the non illumination of the buttons, and the occastional swithing of of the system.

Hello Roy
No, the MMI controls around the gear stick is NOT the control head.
The control head is a small silver box, tucked underneath the bulkhead behind the glovebox. You need to remove the glovebox to even get to it. The control head is the brain/central hub of the entire MMI system. Mine turned out to be faulty, and most likely had an intermittent fault/open circuit, which was preventing the entire MMI system from shutting down and turning off, which was draining the battery.

The only visual clue, is that the hazard warning button on the main dash remains illuminated if the MMI system is not shut down. This should go off within 20-30 seconds of shutting down the car and locking it. If it remains illuminated, the MMI system is still on and running.

Control heads are Becker units, and vary slightly depending on the spec of your car and MMI system. The main part number is: Becker - 4E0 035 729
If you look to replace this, you should look at yours first, and try to get as close to the same as you possibly can - there are usually a few of them on Fleabay. You will also need to have the CP removed by a specialist to have the replacement control head coded to your car as it won't work until this is done. Most local and even specialist Audi mechanics cannot do this (remove CP). VCDS cannot do this.



Also, where did you find the part number? is it possible to get a look at it without removing it all?


Part number is on the part itself. I cannot honestly remember if the control head is installed label-side down, or label-side up (against the bulkhead), therefore can't remember whether you need to physically remove the unit to be able to check yours. I have a feeling that you do iirc. It's a fair amount of hassle to get to it and even look at it.

[smiffypr]

I've had my battery go flat unexpectedly, so I checked my drain using a 10A range on a multimeter inserted between the battery terminal and the clamp, visible through the tailgate glass. It's okay, but for reference this is what I saw: On locking the car the current was over 10Amps, dropping in increments over a few seconds to 0.3 - 0.4 Amps, then after 12 minutes it dropped to 0.09 - 0.11 Amps. The variation on the last measurement is due to the led flashing to indicate the alarm is armed. After 24 hours, the drain was still 0.09 Amps (90 milliamps). That translates to using less than 16AH from the battery per week. The car is a 2010 A6.

[rjsdavis]

I've had my battery go flat unexpectedly, so I checked my drain using a 10A range on a multimeter inserted between the battery terminal and the clamp, visible through the tailgate glass. It's okay, but for reference this is what I saw: On locking the car the current was over 10Amps, dropping in increments over a few seconds to 0.3 - 0.4 Amps, then after 12 minutes it dropped to 0.09 - 0.11 Amps. The variation on the last measurement is due to the led flashing to indicate the alarm is armed. After 24 hours, the drain was still 0.09 Amps (90 milliamps). That translates to using less than 16AH from the battery per week. The car is a 2010 A6.


Annoyingly, I have had to replace the battery (again) in the last month.

Further up this chain I had purchased a Yuasa PBX5020 from TPS, but this was around 4 years ago - give or take. After approx. 3 or 4 days of sitting around doing nothing, there simply wasn't enough juice/cranking power in the battery to fire up the starter motor properly. I'd simply get the classic v e r y slow turnover of the starter motor and engine, and then it stopping with the dashboard clicking etc.

A new battery has fixed this.... although anecdotally, it feels like the starter motor is possibly on the way out. I'm finding that if the car is left for a day or two, particularly in the very cold >4 degrees weather at the moment, that when the key is turned, sometimes there is a fractional delay in the starter motor where it just "feels" and sounds like the starter motor was stuck or rusted up, and requires 1/2 a second to release itself before it cranks over normally. It's hard to describe - but it's definitely not quite 100% right to my ear.

I've found no evidence that the MMI system is not shutting down fully. The hazard warning light on the dash is going off, as it should when the car is locked. However, on occasion, I have had the classic control head "problem" indicator where the MMI control buttons around the gearstick, on the very odd occasion, do not illuminate (when the car lights are on). When I had the previous MMI control head failure, this used to happen a lot. After the replacement was fitted, it didn't happen at all, I've noticed that, perhaps once a month, it's happening again. It just seems like there's a glitch in the MMI/control head once again.

Even more curiously, the Yuasa battery that was removed self-reported (with it's internal lighting system) that all was well with it. It had a green light showing at all times, even when there clearly wasn't enough juice in it to start the car... There are no faults showing within VCDS linked to the control head at the present time, but the various Quiescent codes are all there, everytime the car wouldn't start.

[smiffypr]

To add a little more detail: On locking the car the current was over 10Amps, dropping in increments over 45 seconds to 0.3 - 0.4 Amps at which point the hazard button illumination went off, then after 12 minutes it dropped to 0.09 - 0.11 Amps.
So the hazard button illumination going off is not an indication that the electrics have shut down fully, just that the first stage of shutdown has completed.

(Regarding the green/red/black indicator on a battery, this only monitors the specific gravity in one cell, so any of the other 5 cells failing won't affect this indicator.)

[rjsdavis]

To add a little more detail: On locking the car the current was over 10Amps, dropping in increments over 45 seconds to 0.3 - 0.4 Amps at which point the hazard button illumination went off, then after 12 minutes it dropped to 0.09 - 0.11 Amps.
So the hazard button illumination going off is not an indication that the electrics have shut down fully, just that the first stage of shutdown has completed.


To add a little more detail: Thanks for confirming the same point that I've made all along.

The hazard warning light is a visual cue for all of us, that the car is no longer in a high-drain state and is essentially "shut-down". When I had a high-drain issue, due to a faulty control head, the hazard warning light was never going off. I did not know the significance of this at the time, and I've never seen the cue mentioned anywhere else, ever.

I think everyone that's on here knows that no car is ever completely "off" [with no drain whatsoever] otherwise permanent systems like the car's alarm and security would clearly not function.

[smiffypr]

I think I have found my problem. Quiescent was 90-110mA. I unplugged the ODB plug and it dropped to 9mA (0.009A).