Running on Veg Oil?

[L90OOK]

Hi

I have search the threads to see if there is any info on this?
Is it possible to run my 1999 110Tdi on a 50/50 mix of diesel & rapeseed oil without damaging the engine or fuel pump?

[snapdragon]

I usually put 40 litres of diesel in and then 20 litre drum of veg oil when I get home. It is fine. But mine is not PD is yours?

[L90OOK]

I don't think its a PD...how do you tell? It's a Red i :confused:

[creedxup]

Mine is a 1998 red I (110HP AFN engine code)

You'll be fine with a 50/50 mix if your car is the same as mine.

Chris

[L90OOK]

Hi Chris

Many thanks

Yep mine is the same AFN engine code & not a PD:D
Have just filled with 50/50 mix so here goes...I love cheap motoring:biglaugh:
Cheers

J

[creedxup]

It will run on pure veg oil, but takes about 5 second cranking to start and smokes a bit on start up.

In winter (due to the thickness of the oil) you have to use less veg.

Chris

[onzarob]

Be carfull with veg-oil as its thicker, the VE pumps use the diesel to cool and lubricat the pump seals. Vegatble oil can cause then to get hot and fail prematurely.

I susgest you do some reasearch befor jumping in as there are allot a variables and a new pump is expensive.

http://www.dieselbob.co.uk/environment.asp is a good place to start.

[snapdragon]

What are you folk paying for the oil? It is £10-11/20litres of TigerTiger at my cash and carry (Hyperama). I used to buy KTC Edible frying oil from Costco years ago for about £8/20 litres. Is my C&C fair on price?

[L90OOK]

What are you folk paying for the oil? It is £10-11/20litres of TigerTiger at my cash and carry (Hyperama). I used to buy KTC Edible frying oil from Costco years ago for about £8/20 litres. Is my C&C fair on price?

I'm paying about £10 per 20Ltr of rapeseed oil at local Bookers or Makro...so it's about right.

still 1/2 the price of dino fuel & we're allowed 2500 Litres legally :beerchug::banana:

[NICK H]

I would suggest that first you study the very informative posts by member 'Huweth'

This guy has a huge knowledge regarding this subject,and there are a plethora of potential problems regarding veg oil and the use of Biodiesel.

I remember reading that on no account should one attempt to mix veg oil and Diesel,as the two mix about as well as oil and water.....

[snapdragon]

I used much higher concentrations of rape and soya oil in my BMW powered Vauxhall Omega, and it saved me £5k over the years, all I had was a leaky pump by the time I scrapped it at 175,000 miles due to autobox problems.

I have used smaller concentrations in the VW as it is direct injection. I have never had any problems mixing it, I have done many tests at a variety of temps. It is fully miscible.

There are many websites that have the full S.P. and university test findings. Rapeseed oil is much better than some of the oils they have in other countries.

[cloggsy]

Christ, why didn't I buy a Diesel :aargh4:

:naughty:

[minty0_10]

vegetable oil and diesel do mix ive tried it. my question is what's the difference in vegetable oil and rapeseed? runing terms i mean

[andysuth]

I'm paying about £10 per 20Ltr of rapeseed oil at local Bookers or Makro...so it's about right.

still 1/2 the price of dino fuel & we're allowed 2500 Litres legally :beerchug::banana:

Really? I thought C & E were impounding vehicles a couple of years ago for impersonating fish and chip shops.

Seriously?

[stonedagain]

I ran my old Peugeot 405 for more than 2 years on a 50/50 mix of diesel & cooking oil (70/30 in winter) without any problems other than a slightly rough idle in really cold weather. It also ran quieter & pulled noticeably better. Can my PD 130 take it?

[Andy N.I]

People have said that its not ok to mix diesel and veg or rapeseed together is this true. I tell for why i work in a factory whwere we use rapeseed oil and when its used we refine it to power a generator to pump the power we use back into the grid cutting down our electric bill. It powers the generator 100% but what im thinking is free rapeseed oil only if i can mix. Can this be done and not harm the car

[minty0_10]

ive tried mixing vegy oil and diesel together in a jar and it mixed fine. but by all means try it your self

[passat 130 tdi]

anyone with the pd engine tried svo then . discuss !!!

i ran my toyota hilux surf on the stuff for months , but gotta be sure the pd engine will run on it 1st.:biglaugh:

[Passatguy]

Just been having a little read about this bio diesel (veggy Oil) business as fuel prices seem to be going up and up:mad:.
Had a look at Huweths article which had some good links to different bio diesel sites and the gen behind it all.
Anyway, the long and short of it seems to be that anything after about 1992 can run on the stuff, particularly the vw, audi skoda range and it all comes with the proviso that you make a quick call to your dealer to confirm your vehicles suitability.

People seem to recommend the best spec bio diesel such as the EN14214 standard for peace of mind.

My only hesitations are that the bio diesel sites are few and far between at the moment (My nearest is 35 miles) and the price that I saw for a litre on one site was 98p.

Now i know this is a saving of 15p or so per litre but with all the fuss about it I thought it would be perhaps half the cost of the petro diesel we all use. Thought the savings would be much better than that. Suppose it shows how tight I am:p Any thoughts anyone.

[snapdragon]

I think you may be getting biodiesel and vegetable oil (SVO) confused with one another. Biodiesel is diesel made from vegetable oil. Some people such as those on this thread use food grade vegetable oil which has not been turned into diesel.
When this thread was current, veg oil was about £14/20 litres, it has since rocketted to £19/20 litres. A couple or three of years ago, it was £7.49/20 litres!!!
It's hardly worth bothering at the moment.




Now i know this is a saving of 15p or so per litre but with all the fuss about it I thought it would be perhaps half the cost of the petro diesel we all use. Thought the savings would be much better than that. Suppose it shows how tight I am:p Any thoughts anyone.

[Passatguy]

Seems I missed the boat again !. Thanks snapdragon;)

[prophet]

With the cost of diesel rising every week, has anyone had any more thoughts or attempts at the veg oil?

As an alternative I found this website http://www.biofuels4less.co.uk which for £1500 you can make your own Biodiesel. It says it works out about 22p per litre. For me it would take just over a year to pay for the equipment as far as forecourt savings go.

[snapdragon]

With the cost of diesel rising every week, has anyone had any more thoughts or attempts at the veg oil?

As an alternative I found this website http://www.biofuels4less.co.uk which for £1500 you can make your own Biodiesel. It says it works out about 22p per litre. For me it would take just over a year to pay for the equipment as far as forecourt savings go.

That means 22p + the price of oil, which is about 90p a litre now, and used oil is so hard to come by these days, as it's illegal to take it from a restaurant unless you are a registered waste carrier with a license for used oil. If a restaurant gave it you and got caught they could face large fines, as could you. This is why it is hard to get unless you own a restaurant yourself, and even so it would have to be a very busy junk food joint to use that much liquid oil (mist chip shops use palmex, fryex etc... which is solid).

[beach]

new pure veg oil from supermarket is £1 a litre maximum.
compared to pump fuel thats a saving of 81p a gallon. so about £10 saving for every tank fill roughly, or £5 if you do a 50/50 mix, sounds like its still worth it.
in asda where i looked its cheaper to buy small 1l bottles than 3l big ones. classic retail trick of knowing people normally go for big volumes thinking they are saving money, but actually their paying more.
its just theoretical for me as i'm a petrohead and hate all diesel vehicles.
this type of thing could end in the not too distant future when veg oil prices rise above the equivalent pump diesel price, it may happen when more demand is created for the veg oils as more % of pump fuel comes from bio.

[andysuth]

With the cost of diesel rising every week, has anyone had any more thoughts or attempts at the veg oil?

As an alternative I found this website http://www.biofuels4less.co.uk which for £1500 you can make your own Biodiesel. It says it works out about 22p per litre. For me it would take just over a year to pay for the equipment as far as forecourt savings go.

I've not found this 22p per litre, but since vegetable oil is sold in UK with fuel duty on it already, making it about 85p per litre, I think you should take these figures with a pinch of salt.

I was looking at getting a barrel of veg oil or sunflower oil from a Chinese Supermarket I frequent, but saw this actually worked out more expensive than buying regular biodiesel that had been professionally processed.

I hate to pour water on the thread but I've found that biodiesel works out more expensive per mile than petro diesel.

I think this is because of groups like "Greenpeace" telling everyone that biodiesel is worse than petro diesel because it "Could be" responsible for food prices in Mexico being high, or "Could be" grown on deforestation land.

I think both of these claims by greenpeace are questionable, but considering the fact "CO2 Emissions" are sighted as a reason to embrace Nuclear Power, I think they should also embrace Biodiesel, and scrap all fuel tax on it.

Ofcourse, they'd lose all their tax income from biofuels, so they won't do it. Ever.

Thanks Gordon.

[JayB5UK]

I heard that the PD's do not like veg oil?!

[andysuth]

I heard that the PD's do not like veg oil?!

I believe they don't, but (don't quote me) can be run off a 10% blend in normal diesel.

-AS

[JerryG]

I have a Passat 130 PD tdi that I have been running on properly converted waste vegetable oil that I get from a local from a local farmer. It runs fine - a bit slow to start when it's cold and fuel consumption has gone down 3-4 mpg. I am paying 16p/litre less than on the pumps. Based in Oxon and highly recommend it.
J

[pgarner]

(mist chip shops use palmex, fryex etc... which is solid).

the 2 takeaway beside me both use veg oil. they go through around 75lts each a week ( 3 big drums just not 100% if theyre 25 or 30 ltr tanks )
surprised they dont convert it them selves as one uses diesels for delivery


done some sums as it is

my local shell garage was 108 per ltr for unleaded works out as £4.86 a gallon 13.8
12.3
diesel was 123 so £5.35 a gallon. work out as 4.5 ltrs = 1 gallon

my bora gets 35 mpg so 13.8 pence per mile
mates diesel gets 45 so 12.3 ppm

difference of 1.5ppm. is there going to be a real reason to run a diesel shortly unless you run major miles a year

[2_chickens]

Hi folks, i'm fairly new to the audi world, just picked up a 1998 2.5tdi a6 avant to put some motorway miles on, I also run a 1990 hilux pickup 2.4d that i can run on VO without modification (has a denso pump that's supposedly the DBs when running on VO, also has pre-combustion chamber apparently that helps out again) so i'm looking to get a 1000 litre container or filtered WVO (waste vegetable oil?) at some point, anyone know what mods i'm gonna need on the audi if any??? cheers.

[hughie]

Hi All,

I've a Passat 130TDI 2003 and have just put first batch of Asda veggie oil in (2.98 for 3ltr) @30% mix. I guess we'll see shortly :-).....

I normally do 120 miles commute a day so saving will be enough to make it worth while.

Hughie ..

[con1981]

I got to admit I'm interested to see if the PD engine will run on veggie oil.

I still get about an extra 100miles out of diesel than what i did in my petrol fiesta, so can't complain but a savings a saving.

[passat 130 tdi]

Hi All,

I've a Passat 130TDI 2003 and have just put first batch of Asda veggie oil in (2.98 for 3ltr) @30% mix. I guess we'll see shortly :-).....

I normally do 120 miles commute a day so saving will be enough to make it worth while.

Hughie ..

Let us know what % you used mate , and how it ran . i do 200 miles a week to work , and am interested in making some savings. :beerchug:

[snapdragon]

I am running my V6 TDi on 50% veg oil, I premix it in the empty plastic oil drums from last time by taking them to the filling station in the boot half full with oil and topping up with diesel. I have to say at this time of year it flows very easily not much more viscous than how diesel used to be in the 1980s before they started messing about with it.

[andysuth]

Hi All,

I've a Passat 130TDI 2003 and have just put first batch of Asda veggie oil in (2.98 for 3ltr) @30% mix. I guess we'll see shortly :-).....

I normally do 120 miles commute a day so saving will be enough to make it worth while.

Hughie ..


Certainly cheaper than PetroDiesel, I'd be interested to see MPG.

I think a better buy might have been Asda's own 1 litre Vegetable Oil at 98p per litre.

3 litres = £2.94

I think I'll try the local chinese supermarket, it might be worth doing now.

(source: www.asda.com (http://www.asda.com/))

I know it's hardly any different, but I'm willing to make my feelings known to gordon brown about a 2p tax increase per litre!

-Andy

[snapdragon]

That's not bad for a supermarket, even the cheaper wholesalers like COSTCO and Hyperama are about £17.49 for 20 litres (88p/litres) that said, it was only 26p a litre when I started using it about 5-6 years ago!

[onzarob]

I was chatting to someone this week and a friend of his with a chippy gets charge £4 more per 20 litres if the waste oil in not returned. So Veg oil is raising in price:mad:

[hughie]

Hi All,

I've a Passat 130TDI 2003 and have just put first batch of Asda veggie oil in (2.98 for 3ltr) @30% mix. I guess we'll see shortly :-).....

I normally do 120 miles commute a day so saving will be enough to make it worth while.

Hughie ..


Well I've been driving around all weekend & 60miles to office today and all seems well so far. I'll press on with this but the key limiter is cost.. veggie oil has become expensive!

The idea about using the old cans to mix with diesel is interesting - will try it.

Also spotted that 15litres of KTC rapeseed oil in Makro is £13.98 (no vat) in a single aluminium can - cheap and the cans could be used for mixing. Maybe I need to buy a bulk load.

[passat 130 tdi]

When I Had My Hilux Surf Id Pour The Oil In At The Garage Then Go Fill Up With Derv , It Mixes Just Fine This Way , I Also Used To Add Acetone 1mm Per 1 Litre Of Fuel And A Bottle Of White Spirit 500 Ml. Helps Thin It Down And Give A Better Explosion.

[andysuth]

Certainly cheaper than PetroDiesel, I'd be interested to see MPG.

I think a better buy might have been Asda's own 1 litre Vegetable Oil at 98p per litre.

3 litres = £2.94

I think I'll try the local chinese supermarket, it might be worth doing now.

(source: www.asda.com (http://www.asda.com/))

I know it's hardly any different, but I'm willing to make my feelings known to gordon brown about a 2p tax increase per litre!

-Andy

Hondo (Liverpool) is now charging £20.50 for a 20Litre drum: cheaper buying at Asda.

I didn't try Zhong-wah, as they are normally more expensive.

At these prices I don't think it's worth doing, working on a 50:50 derv/veg oil, you only save 36p per litre, and that's only on 30L (A4 has a 60Litre tank capacity). That's a saving of £10.80 per tank. (without additional caster oil/alcohol).

This however probably sees a drop in MPG by 10 to 15%, approximately the same as the financial saving.

Factor in an oil filter change at first 1,000 miles, then every 7-8000miles after that, I don't think it's worth running on Veg Oil.

The Ironic thing is the message we've been sent.

All these "pioneers" who've invested time and effort getting BioDiesel working are now struggling to get hold of the waste oil and other raw materials at a competitive price. Message we get is next time there's a possible way to make an environmentally friendly change, don't bother, you'll be taxed to death as soon as the government notice it!

-AS

[grhdylan]

andysuth wrote "you'll be taxed to death as soon as the government notice it!"

Yep, Bottler Brown will take every penny . Remember when diesel cars were rare ? Remember the price of of diesel compared to petrol ? As soon as diesel car became popular he jumps on the bandwagon & puts the tax up, not just on the fuel but on the tax disc as well. "At least **** Turpin wore a mask ! ":aargh4:

[caldirun]

The savings are not worth risking the expense of a new engine, the best way is to change your driving habits. If you imagine throwing a pound coin away everytime you stamp on the accelerator or change down to accelerate you will save much more. I have exceeded 700 miles on a tank the last few months and am now going for 750.
We can only claim 40 pence/mile for the first 10,000 then 25 pence/mile after that before getting taxed, this has not increased (if fuel had gone down 30% the limits would have been lowered for sure) so to maintain a reasonable return we have to slow down (you can still enjoy the downhills just follow the lorries up them).

[hughie]

Well I don't know about worse MPG.. I'm now getting 55 mpg each way for 60 miles which is a little better than normal..

[andysuth]

Well I don't know about worse MPG.. I'm now getting 55 mpg each way for 60 miles which is a little better than normal..


Is that off the computer, or an absolute measurement.

-Andy.

[passat 130 tdi]

veg oil wont return as good a mpg due to its calorific make up , it gets rather technical but there is a formula that works it all out. 55 seems a tad optimistic as the handbook states 48 mpg extra urban .

if its running fine , fair play for trying it , i found the corn oil from lidl to be very runny as opposed to the klc oil and that asda oil didnt smell as bad .

[hughie]

... by the way, my measurements are off the computer .. whatever the number is, the journey is the same and the figure is better at the mo. Will see over time anyway.

All I have to do now is work out how to change the fuel filter... :-)

[snapdragon]

I spoke to a top man at KTC about their oil, the cheap Pure Vegetable Oil is rape and soya or any blend of the two and is basically the cheapest commodity oil they can buy on the global market, he said that these are highly processed so that they last longer in the fryer and have been hot acid washed, deodorised,:1zhelp: and they quickly chill them and slave off the paraffin wax crystals. It also contains silicone oil to prevent foaming. He said that this gives a very clear bright oil at low temperatures and avoids that sticky mess you get down the sides of bottles of other oils such as sunflower and corn oil. I'll stick to olive oil and just use this stuff for burning! :aargh4:

[passat 130 tdi]

ktc also sets(gels - turns white) at low temperatures as i suppose alot of oils do . 1 factor you need to take into account as the year draws out.

[andysuth]

... by the way, my measurements are off the computer .. whatever the number is, the journey is the same and the figure is better at the mo. Will see over time anyway.

All I have to do now is work out how to change the fuel filter... :-)

I'd personally work to the top up tank MPG, the gauges are calibrated for derv, not sure how the computer measures it, but it *might* give a slightly different reading for veg oil to derv. I've not got the computer on my car (unless it's there and deactivated, info please if you know of anything about 1998 A4 standard 1.9tdi), so I always work to the volume in vs. absolute milage. Last tank was 59.66mpg, running total is 48.55mpg.

Fuel Filter is easy, just carefully use a chain wrench, careful not to spill contents and then pour as much of it as you can into the new fuel filter, hand tighten and turn the engine until it runs (probably cuts out) and then keep turning it for about 1 minute to get the airlock out of the system. Don't do it in a quiet residential neighbourhood at 10pm, like I tried once.

You'll get a "redneck ASBO".....

[snapdragon]

I wouldn't put dirty diesel from the old filter into my new one ! Have you seen the bits in there? Also you are putting it into the filtered side.
I'd personally work to the top up tank MPG, the gauges are calibrated for derv, not sure how the computer measures it, but it *might* give a slightly different reading for veg oil to derv. I've not got the computer on my car (unless it's there and deactivated, info please if you know of anything about 1998 A4 standard 1.9tdi), so I always work to the volume in vs. absolute milage. Last tank was 59.66mpg, running total is 48.55mpg.

Fuel Filter is easy, just carefully use a chain wrench, careful not to spill contents and then pour as much of it as you can into the new fuel filter, hand tighten and turn the engine until it runs (probably cuts out) and then keep urning it for about 1 minute to get the airlock out of the system. Don't do it in a quiet residential neighbourhood at 10pm, like I tried once.

You'll get a "redneck ASBO".....

[andysuth]

I wouldn't put dirty diesel from the old filter into my new one ! Have you seen the bits in there? Also you are putting it into the filtered side.

I've not noticed any bits as yet, but that was always a concern.

I'd just come to the conclusion that most of the filter residue would stay on the filter body.

Any unfiltered diesel would be a relatively small volume. The filter body can't be bigger than 750ml, which would be the equivelent of approx 8 or 9 miles worth of fuel(?).

I'm pretty sure the haynes manual said to pour out of the old body into the new.

Surely if you are pouring into the filtered side, the diesel will also pour easier from the filtered side?

Is there a way of doing it pouring from the filtered side only?

-AS

[hughie]

... thx all.

Is the fuel filter under the car?

[ronanmcc]

... thx all.

Is the fuel filter under the car?


I'm assuming that your 03 is the same as my 01, If so, its just to the right of the engine block, behind the oil filter. It has the pre-heater for the diesel on top, secured with a 12mm alan key down through the center. just release the alan bolt, lift the preheater with pipes attached off, and then release the holder on the right hand side.... Hope this helps!

[passat 130 tdi]

that preheater is a big welcome to anyone using veg oil , well done vw .

[hughie]

thx ronanmcc ..

i just took the top engine cover off and all was there to see :-)