Found car on Autotrader but....something is a bit odd

[chiptech81]

Found a 2009 (59) Audi A4 170 S line, 47k miles, with nav, up for £15500 ono listing says with tax and mot, done online check and tax ran out 1/12/2012, phone seller up and was told when we had bad weather car sat on drive and never got round to doing it, also car needs 1st service.
Does this sound fishy or is it just me?

[Guest 2]

1st service @ 47k miles!?

Walk away.

[Doctle Odd]

Can you post a link? TBH if it's never been serviced,, considering the first couple are gratis it's wrong and Chris is right

[A4BlackEdition]

Good chance its clocked. Guy at works 08 reg a3 s-line went back with 110,000 mies to lease firm who sent it straight to auction, a week later it was on autotrader with 45k, it was his old car as the reg no was showing in the pics. Tread carefully out there.

[Doctle Odd]

Just curious, does rewinding the clock or however it's done bring on the service light?
Good chance its clocked. Guy at works 08 reg a3 s-line went back with 110,000 mies to lease firm who sent it straight to auction, a week later it was on autotrader with 45k, it was his old car as the reg no was showing in the pics. Tread carefully out there.

[Guest 2]

I'd be ringing customer services with the reg and see what the story is.

Audi customer services :0800 699 888


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[gupsterg]

Just curious, does rewinding the clock or however it's done bring on the service light?

From a chat with a member who has had this on his A6 in Europe it is common for "mileage correction" in his country... in the UK it is also legitimately advertised as this... a loop hole...
We would like to think that with digital tech it would be harder... unfortunately easier than we would like to believe...

[chiptech81]

Thanks for the replies, i think the seller was thinking that as its out of its 3 year warranty it's due a service.
Wow, mileage correction i thought that was a thing of the past, thats open my eyes.
Heres the link to the ad:
Audi A4 2.0 TDI 170 S Line 4dr Diesel Saloon 2009 (http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201302075232028/sort/default/usedcars/price-from/15000/maximum-age/up_to_4_years_old/fuel-type/diesel/price-to/16000/transmission/manual/maximum-mileage/up_to_60000_miles/model/a4/make/audi/onesearchad/used/onesearchad/nearlynew/postcode/hp199np/radius/1501/page/4?logcode=p)

[Doctle Odd]

I was wondering about the "mileage correction" in that say 40k miles were wound back would the car think it had missed 4 services? did you google the sellers phone number?

[gupsterg]

I was wondering about the "mileage correction" in that say 40k miles were wound back would the car think it had missed 4 services?

Ahhh sorry mate missed the mark there :o...

Here are the documented adaptations relating to ins.cluster where the service info from my understanding is kept...

Link:- Audi Portal: ECU Diagnostic . Audi A4 8K (2008-) . Instrument Cluster J285 (http://www.audi-portal.com/en/diagnostic/ecu_11020.html#1)

Next here is a more visual version form the Ross Tech site...

Link:- Ross-Tech: VCDS Tour: SRI Reset (http://www.ross-tech.com/vcds/tour/sri-reset.html)

To me they seem like counters which can just be reset...

Now the official dealer VAS machine may see more info or things which are not documented...

A prime example I've seen is how in VCDS we can not access battery history (battery module on A6 IIRC stores last 3) with VAS they can access this...

Some of what we are discussing info will be low due to the nature of the subject...

The "BMW key" situation is fine example of why manufacturers must keep this info out of the public domain...

But there are people who sit around cracking such eggs...

[Doctle Odd]

Thanks mate, the amount of information the members of this site have coupled by sharp brains and eagle eyes never ceases to amaze and impress

[Crasher]

Wow, mileage correction i thought that was a thing of the past

You have to be kidding! In the old days it took a couple of hours skilled work to give a car a hair cut and if you weren’t careful the digits didn't line up plus if you cut too much it was obvious. Modern cars can be clocked in seconds by any spotty teenager with a lap top and £100 lead off fleaBay and if you remove 80K from a modern pre MOT age Audi you simply cannot tell. There are two quick ways to tell, one is easy. If the car is missing its service book, turn and leave and if the service book is a duplicate (this is stamped all over it), tread extremely carefully. Also, most clockers do not alter a figure in the cars systems called the EDC (Electronic Distance Calculation) which SOME cars have and can be used to verify. Randomly and when suspicious we check a cars EDC when doing work and from that I know that clocking is absolutely rife! Worse than I ever saw it in my younger days when maybe 20K had been cut, now I often see 60 to 80K or more removed from the total.

[Doctle Odd]

There are always rumours that cars imported into Ireland from the UK have the mileage adjusted. There is no paperwork checked only you must register the car within 7 days of purchase at which time the mileage (there's no kilometerage in UK cars TG) is recorded. Then again clocking isn't actually a crime in Ireland

[Crasher]

Its sort of not a crime here, only to sell the car with mileage known to be wrong, a grey area. To actually mike it illegal would create a whole host of problems, it is a very difficult subject. I suppose the best answer is to find some way of making it obvious but the only way to do that is by inspection and that only happens after 3 years and the government want to make it 4-2-2-1 and that will just make matters worse. Its not as if you can make it impossible to do either, whatever you try someone will find a way around it as the rewards are worth it.

[imyahmed]

Checked reg with an app on my phone, definitely not taxed. Always do a a full hpi check with VIN Number. Look to pay around £30 for a proper hpi check. Don't bother with the once that charge a few quid . Any doubt walk away.

[Guest 2]

Look at the seat bolster and the outer base - definitely doesn't look like 47k it looks exact same as my A6 with 80k.

Looks very crinkled dunnit. Is anyone going to ring customer services and ask for the service history? 0800 699 888

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz90/57_audi/Everything%20Else/bf58ffb19952bccce500bf9f56e9f9b3_zps4ff0c582.jpg

[quattrodaddy]

Look at the seat bolster and the outer base - definitely doesn't look like 47k it looks exact same as my A6 with 80k.

Looks very crinkled dunnit. Is anyone going to ring customer services and ask for the service history? 0800 699 888

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz90/57_audi/Everything%20Else/bf58ffb19952bccce500bf9f56e9f9b3_zps4ff0c582.jpg

Why has he taken the photo with the seat belt done up ?? Also check out the shine on that steering wheel, looks high mileage to me

[gupsterg]

Also, most clockers do not alter a figure in the cars systems called the EDC (Electronic Distance Calculation) which SOME cars have and can be used to verify.

I can't remember as to what part I was viewing with VCDS (engine module or ins.cluster) and I think I saw something which reassembled what was on my oddo... I'm more inclined to think module engine 01...

Is it possible you can share how it can be checked by us owners? as this is one thing which still bounces around my head even though I've checked my cars history extensively...

[Guest 2]

Press Applications on VCDS main menu then EDC is on the top right corner.

My 2008 car doesn't support this but my 2009 A3 does.

There is a measuring block somewhere either in the engine or instrument cluster as you say but can't remember which.


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[Guest 2]

emailed audi customer service for the service history .. will post tomorrow when they reply.

[Guest 2]

Re: Audi A4 - KU59 BVK

Dear Mr R

Thank you for your recent email regarding the service history of the above vehicle.

Having checked our records, I can confirm no services have been carried out within the Audi network.

Please note, this information does not include any servicing which may have been completed independently.

I hope this information is helpful and if I can be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me on the details below.

Kind Regards


no way to confirm the mileage from audi then, wonder if the mileage section was filled in on the v5 if the car had a new owner?

[chiptech81]

Thanks for finding that out, i think this is one i will stay clear of there are just too many negatives with this one.
Oh well the search continues

[Doctle Odd]

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck....

[gupsterg]

I think it is such a minefield :( ... every car is prime for clocking... like Crasher has highlighted in post 12 & 13...

IMO there needs to be tightening of the laws regarding "Mileage"... it is just too easy for clocking to occur...

I can't remember where I read it but even dealer stamps/service records are/can be faked... even a service centre could be in on it...

MOT's again are not a sure fire thing as clocking could occur between tests... even a test centre could be in on it...

Again as highlighted it is too easy with digital tech to do "Mileage correction"...

I've even seen main dealers pop the little sticker on cluster stating that there could be mileage discrepancies and this is on so called "Used Approved" cars :( ...

Recently I was doing some research into part numbers of my clusters software and was amazed how many clusters were available on ebay...

I saw one with 42k miles on it... now not that I would do this but imagine if I couldn't find a "Mileage corrector" I could easily buy (x) cluster go get component protection removed from an "Indi" with VAG equipment and hey presto my car has half the mileage!

So maybe in all honesty all we can do is hope/be lucky :) ...

[Crasher]

Hopefully progress is being made on this, there has been some good news,

Investigation and conviction of provider of illegal mileage correction services* - The Office of Fair Trading (http://www.oft.gov.uk/OFTwork/consumer-enforcement/consumer-enforcement-completed/mileage-correction/#.UR67-qXWqSo)

The sooner these types have their 16 pin plug shoved where the sun doesn't shine, the better!

[gupsterg]

Press Applications on VCDS main menu then EDC is on the top right corner.

So I tried what Chris advised... but my ECU not support function :( ... (Link:- Ross-Tech: VCDS Tour: EDC-15-16 Mileage (http://www.ross-tech.com/vcds/tour/EDC-15-Mileage.html))

I couldn't find an MVB in module 01... so maybe it was something else I saw :confused:... then I thought why not scan instrument cluster module 17 but as Crasher said if clocked it will just relay same info...

Next some googling reveal this... Link:- Checking genuine mileage using VCDS ?? (http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-sportback-8p-chassis/117100-checking-genuine-mileage-using-vcds.html#post1221238)

And as it happens when I was out in the snow and made ESP/ABS go nuts with some action! I had a DTC refing ABS system :) and in freeze frame data...


Mileage: 132076 km

Which equal 132 076 kilometres = 82 068 ish miles so IMO all is well :) ...