Rear washer - wet boot lid!

[Rosscow]

Hi All,

Haven't been on for a while just down to being busy at work, Christmas, New Year, blah blah blah. You know how it is!

I need to strip my rear boot lid at some point.

Discovered the other day that my rear spray wasn't working. I presumed it was frozen so didn't give it much thought.

Opened the boot on Saturday and water dribbled out. What the hell?

Carpet on the inside face of the boot lid (below rear screen) is soaking wet!

So obviously not frozen but a pipe or joint failure.

Will get round to looking at it soon, but in the meantime must remember to not spray rear window!

[gupsterg]

Hi,

You are most likely having a leak internally in the motor... ref the how to thread Link:- VW AUDI Forum - VWAF (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?137070-Audi-A6-Avant-%28-4F-C6-%29-Rear-wiper-motor-removal-refurb-install&p=772445#post772445)

You may also have a leak/connection come off on pipework within the tailgate at motor...

But the how to covers most aspects of the rear washer motor...

ATB
Gup

PS Valeo have an on-line catalogue, I was able to cross ref p/n and find an A3/A4 rear washer motor on ebay for cheap but in the end refurb'd mine :) ...

[Rosscow]

Cheers Gup, that's awesome.

Will give it a read tonight!

[gianton]

It's a known issue by Audi and covered by them being off from warranty. When happened to mine all stereo components in the back where damaged and luckily those covered too. You should claim to have them fix all damages with no extra fees (only workmanship maybe).

[fieldy]

Hi Mate, as per Gup' s post, changed my rear motor about 6 weeks ago. Same symptoms as yours, wet boot lid etc. Got a motor from Audi for £105 and Gups 'how-to' guide makes it a pretty easy DIY-er job. I opted for new, Gup refurbed his with the same results. Good luck. :beerchug:

[gupsterg]

It's a known issue by Audi and covered by them being off from warranty. When happened to mine all stereo components in the back where damaged and luckily those covered too. You should claim to have them fix all damages with no extra fees (only workmanship maybe).

Hi :) ..

I think what you are discussing is the recall to do the rear washer pipework at the hinge... all of us (me, fieldy & rosscow) have had this done...

If you follow the link in post two you will see the shaft which the washer fluid go through to the nozzle/spray jet can start to leak internally in the rear wiper motor...

ATB
Gup

[Rosscow]

I think I fixed it boys!

Thanks for the guide Gup, it was very useful.

Once I had got all of the back stripped down sure enough the rear washer pipe had become disconnected from the motor.

So I plugged it in and tested. No joy.

Right, must be blocked. So I stripped motor down and thought I'd have a look inside whilst I could to see if it was anything like Gup's (rusted):

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b128/rossco_99/DE464CB9-A3A8-4B86-93E7-E10B2586310D-797-0000002A853E3B8F.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b128/rossco_99/4A67AA6B-2669-4580-9AF5-006ADBB2CEF7-797-0000002A776BE166.jpg

Luckily all seemed good! So I carried on and blew through the main washer inlet pipe on the motor with an airline.
I also removed the outside washer jets and blew through these. I then gave everything a good rodding through with some spray gun tip needles that I had at work.
I got some gunk out and all seemed clear. Re-assembled and tested!

Success!

However. I noticed that water was dripping from the black plastic nipple that the rear washer hose connects to.
On closer inspection I notice that around the nipple there is either a compound or something similar which seals the nipple - and that some of this was missing (apologies for poor photo):

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b128/rossco_99/0903ADA8-DA98-46AC-B266-34BA1FAF82A3-797-0000002A949BFB9F.jpg

So I carefully put some silicone into the area that was missing, reconnected the hose and then siliconed the entire plastic nipple arrangement:

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b128/rossco_99/2FCAEB14-8CCD-440C-B217-63A27C306B83-797-0000002A9FB6BE6B.jpg

I put everything back together again and haven't used the rear washer yet - I thought I'd give it 24 hours for the silicone to fully go off.

I'll give it a go tonight and let you know what happens!

[Eshrules]

Ah. There is hope! Warms my heart it does, to see a thread that describes the issue (albeit a common one), gains useful advice and then the OP has the courtesy to follow up (with pics!).

Forum perfection personified :grouphug:

[gupsterg]

If my woes can help another at least there is a silver lining to the grey clouds in my ownership :) ...

As always no one poster is greater than another, the forum is a collective of people :beerchug:...
So hip hip hurray for the whole on-line communities supporting each other :beerchug:...

The one is weak the many are strong!

[defever]

Hello Rosscow,

I just got myself B5 A4 Avant TDI 1.9 and I have the EXACT problem!! I've been looking around for general solution to "rear wiper washer problem", but mine shoots out water no problem when the final tip (the black pin with silverball where the water finally exits into the outside world) is not connected. When it's connected, the water still comes out but trickling and most of the water gushes out from the base of the motor compartment (where you sealed it with silicone!). The tip itself is okay, I can blow air through and suck air in, it's clear.

Took the compartment apart looked at it carefully, expecting a major rust... NO. looks clean, in fact I think the parts have been replaced while the previous owner had it. The shafts were clean (only a bit of rust), and they were not obstructed. I stuck a metal BBQ skewer just in case, but it moved freely, no obstruction...

But I also noticed that there are two tiny holes on the base of the washer shaft:

1936419365

This is the culprit; this is where the water shoots out. But how come there are holes where water is pressurised? Are they supposed to be there (some sort of de-pressuriser to prevent other component bursting)? Or am I missing a cover item (rubber ring or so)?. Again, it's exactly where you sealed with silicone. I didn't come across your post while I was looking for a solution, so I wrapped a rubber band at the base of it to seal those two tiny holes.

I tested the system: Worked! but I don't think the rubber band will hold the pressure as few long squirts and the rubber is bulging out already. Not a permanent fix. Is silicone the only solution to this? I'm slightly worried that there may be a reason why those holes are there, as it didn't seem like someone decided to punch a hole in there. The nipple looks like it was moulded with those two holes... so what is the function of the holes and is it appropriate to block them?

If anyone can guide me to whether I should block those holes, water shooting out from there means there's a blockage somewhere else and these are there to prevent explosion, or am I simply missing a washer/bush/ring to cover them?

Thanks for gups (for the link) and rosscow for the pics, brilliant forum.

I intend to stick around here as long as I'm with my new A4!

[WesleyP]

I've been having a similar problem. My rear wiper started going bonkers and running almost continually, not long after the washer jet stopped working (although pump running..) Turned out the removable spray on the wiper motor shaft was blocked solid. It srpats out OK out of the open shaft. But presumably water pressure has found its way into the motor and damaged something electrically. I've yet to remove the motor, the arm is stock on the shaft so I've got to get a wiper blade puller. I'm wondering if the motor will be repairable or will need replacing..

[Rosscow]

I don't think my repair worked :(

It's spraying lovely now, but I checked the emergency triangle holder last night and it's a little bit wet so presume my silicone repair didn't work.

I'll strip off the boot again one night and have another look.

Bugger!

[gupsterg]

The shaft may not be sealing correctly inside the motor... ref the "how to" thread... where shaft meet the outside cover it will leak internally then find its way out of the cover...

[defever]

Thanks Ross and gups for the update!

I feared that if I block those two holes, the pressure building up through the piping will eventually burst somewhere in the pipe, which in my case I expect it to be around the tailgate boot area (it's on the offside boot space for my A4, where the emergency triangle is kept, so are my tow bar bypass module, washer jet pump and other electic wires!!), where it preveiously disconnected itself.

Gupsterg, when you refer to your "how to" thread about sealing correclty inside the motor, do you mean the white PFTE tape you wrapped?:

VW AUDI Forum - VWAF (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?137070-Audi-A6-Avant-%28-4F-C6-%29-Rear-wiper-motor-removal-refurb-install)


Then cut about 2 inch length of PFTE tape, fold in half along length, wound tight around end of nozzle/arm which meet cover...
This was necessary on mine as due to wear (I think) on the washer hose attachment on metal cover not sealing properly on my motor...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/My%20A6%20Avant%20rear%20wiper%20motor%20stuff/5eb2778f.jpg


That would make sense because that's the tip of the shaft which touches those two holes (I keep on talking about) on the outer cover.

[gupsterg]

Yep :) ... I was gonna research stuff on your motor because IIRC yours maybe the one which an Audi repair kit is available for the shaft,etc...

But been little snowed...


19365


That is the sprayer shaft in the image?

[defever]

Yes, it's slightly different shape from A6 model but I think the consept/mechanism is the same.
I have come across this thread from another forum: Audifans.net: You are using an invalid IP (http://www.audifans.net/ftopicp-249749.html)
This is the same part as mine, but he doesn't mention about the two holes, nor I can confirm on his pictures...
And my casing isn't bad at all; there's no sign of heavy rust or dust or gunk inside the casing...

So it's a matter of sealing that gap you mentioned and the two holes... but how did that gap/hole appear in the first place?

[gupsterg]

In my case I believe the the sealing element on cover had just worn from use/aged... maybe the previous owners of my car where ones which ran the rear wiper motor all the time when raining and not when just needed... the shaft on mine is always rotating when the wiper run, ref video of movement in the how to thread...

Will read that thread... will check for repair kit... again looking at your photo the shaft has no cogs,etc... it is like an insert?

*** Update ***

WOW that thread "how to" is surrealy like mine! ....

[defever]

Found the parts:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-AUDI-REAR-WIPER-MOTOR-REPAIR-KIT-8L0998711-/320831382511?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM& fits=Car+Make%3AAudi|Model%3AA4&hash=item4ab30a63e f (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-AUDI-REAR-WIPER-MOTOR-REPAIR-KIT-8L0998711-/320831382511?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Car+Make%3AAudi%7CModel%3AA4&hash=item4ab30a63ef)

Rear Wiper Motor Repair Kit Audi A3 A4 A6 RS4 RS6 Allroad 8L0998711 | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rear-Wiper-Motor-Repair-Kit-Audi-A3-A4-A6-RS4-RS6-Allroad-8L0998711-/261165314943?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3cceaa737f)

The second link shows some sort of O-ring which might be the part I'm missing!!

Sorry, gups I forgot to answer your question; there are two shafts on mine. One is the shaft with the cog (same as the one on your vid) which goes through the window and attaches the wiper itself. Then there's another shaft (my picture), which transports the actual fluid and it goes inside the first shaft.

So looking back on the links above, it looks like I might be missing a sealant or so where those two shafts meet (and where the two holes are). But the rest of the repair part is perfectly fine on mine. I am being cheap by thinking, "I don't think it's worth paying £47.00 for a tiny part I'm missing." But at the same time, I couldn't dismantle the wiper off the window as the shaft was quite stuck.

I'm sorry that I'm not using the right terms and I may sound like a 5 y.o. trying to explain some parts from his bicycle. But I hope this helps to answer your question.

[gupsterg]

That is the correct repair kit....

8L0 998 711 Repair kit will do rear washer motors:-

8L0 955 711
8L0 955 711 A
8L0 955 711 B

Dealer price is coming up approx £38...


I'm sorry that I'm not using the right terms and I may sound like a 5 y.o. trying to explain some parts from his bicycle. But I hope this helps to answer your question.

Hi mate no worries :) ... I'm just an owner :) ... most of the terms are like greek to me as well :D ...

[defever]

WOW that thread "how to" is surrealy like mine! ....

Yup, I'm making full use of forums (i.e. wisdom and knowledge free of charge) to find solutions to my problems. Of course, in return, I will make sure that other people with similar problems will see what I managed to achieve by posting what I learned too!

Thanks again Gupsterg and everyone for your contribution.

PS I'm sorry for highjacking a thread in A6 section with my A4 problem... I'm using "search" function to find potential solutions to my problems so I might re-apprear again. Apologies in advance!

[gupsterg]

The parts in the repair kit are not available separately :( ... you'll just have to be like Link:- Macgyver (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacGyver)



he is a resourceful agent with an encyclopedic knowledge of the physical sciences (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_science), able to solve complex problems with everyday materials he finds at hand, along with his ever-present duct tape (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duct_tape) and Swiss Army knife (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Army_knife).

:beerchug:...

[gupsterg]

The second link shows some sort of O-ring which might be the part I'm missing!!

As you can't PM... A thought crossed my mind... your inner washer jet shaft is fixed to the cover/element?

So the leak must be happening where the inner shaft meet the outside nozzle jet/top end and trickling down then out of the holes on your black element?

Your thoughts please :) ...

[defever]

As you can't PM... A thought crossed my mind... your inner washer jet shaft is fixed to the cover/element?

So the leak must be happening where the inner shaft meet the outside nozzle jet/top end and trickling down then out of the holes on your black element?

Your thoughts please file:///C:/Users/ed46/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.png...

Sorry. I'm still a newbie here so I don't think I have the privilege of sending/receiving PMs (I think I need to post at least 10? I’m getting there…).

I agree with your assumption, Gups. Oddly, the inner shaft (in my picture) doesn’t go all the way through; there’s another shaft at the very end which seems like a part of the outer shaft (the one with a cog). It certainly narrows down towards the end tip where the tiny black jet tip is attached. And they are not obstructed, I shuved a metal BBQ skewer and it moves freely.

When I was looking for the location of the leak, the water shoots out fine without the jet tip at the very end; no water leak from the two holes. But when I fit the jet, the water comes out form the wholes and it doesn’t trickle down through the hole, it sprays out like mad. I guess the pressure builds up at the jet and it’s strong enough to cause a back wash.

Having said this, maybe the two holes are there to purposely allow over-pressured water to shoot out side of the casing rather than accumulate inside and corrode/damage the cogs and motor (like some pictures I see on your link and the other guy’s A4).

I’ll try to take some picture when I get home, hopefully before dark. I’ve also been trying out the washer with my bodge job rubber ring sealing yesterday (washer seems to sprout fine from the jet, but not sure if it’s 100% of water pumped coming out of there) so l shall see if that held well and check if I have a leak elsewhere.

This is starting to make sense now… B&Q here I come for the o-ring.

But then I might just end up where Ross is stuck currently; the built up pressure might burst somewhere else down the line... ahh.

[gupsterg]

Oddly, the inner shaft (in my picture) doesn’t go all the way through; there’s another shaft at the very end which seems like a part of the outer shaft (the one with a cog). It certainly narrows down towards the end tip where the tiny black jet tip is attached. And they are not obstructed, I shuved a metal BBQ skewer and it moves freely.

When I was looking for the location of the leak, the water shoots out fine without the jet tip at the very end; no water leak from the two holes. But when I fit the jet, the water comes out form the wholes and it doesn’t trickle down through the hole, it sprays out like mad. I guess the pressure builds up at the jet and it’s strong enough to cause a back wash.

By reading your info defo sounds like it is leaking at top end... imagine this for a moment the outer washer shaft has cog on it (so it rotates when motor running)... then inner shaft meet this at top (not rotate)... so the inner shaft has been ground down by the the outer one through use... opposite to my motor washer shaft/seal on cover...

You may have no option but to use the repair kit or try PFTE tape at the top end of inner shaft...

They may have improved the design depending upon what P/N of your original rear washer motor/shaft design...

Again only my thoughts :) ...

ATB
G

[defever]

Yup I'm more convinced to buy the repair kit now.

19394

Looking at the picture of the repair kit, the inner shaft should be the same length at the outer shaft with the cog. I don’t think that was the case with my current parts, I need to double check. Perhaps the very end tip of the inner shaft may have split and got rusted, and fused with the outer shaft??

I shall update you with my progress. Ross I hope this helps your problem too.

[gupsterg]

Yup I'm more convinced to buy the repair kit now.

Looking at the picture of the repair kit, the inner shaft should be the same length at the outer shaft with the cog. I don’t think that was the case with my current parts, I need to double check. Perhaps the very end tip of the inner shaft may have split and got rusted, and fused with the outer shaft??

I have seen posts that is a common issue...


Ross I hope this helps your problem too.

Mine is fixed mate http://yoursmiles.org/bsmile/fun/b0220.gif... "How to" have a video in it...

[defever]

Checked my offside tailgate pocket, bone dry. Good news.
Took the boot trim, and the bodge job rubber is bulging out more than yesterday. And bit of water dropping...not massively, but that makes me wonder if some water did get in to the cog and motor cavity...

Got home in the dark so I can't do much now, but managed to get to B&Q and got some o-rings and thin bush. I will find some time and try these over next few days.

Thanks Gups again for real-time advice! And I'm "idling", perfect.

[defever]

FOUND THE PROBLEM!!

Well, I couldn't wait so I managed to get the stiff wiper off using ball joint separator (works equally as proper wiper removal tool, like Gups mentioned in his "how to") and took the whole washer mount inside.

Dismantled the motor unit... Looks clean...
19397

Still looks clean...
19398

And then BOOM!!!
19399

Yup, as Gups guessed it, the inner jet shaft was broken inside the cog pipe. Hence most of the water was gushing from where the copper shaft spilt inside the pipe and was backwashing out to the two holes.

Backwash from the holes at the base of the black nipple prevents the water going into the cog and motor compartment, preventing further damage to the unit. Clever Germans...

So, IT'S NOT OKAY TO FILL THE HOLES! Lesson learned. Basically, my problem and solution was here: Audifans.net: You are using an invalid IP (http://www.audifans.net/ftopicp-249749.html)

Luckily my unit is quite clean so I'm just going to order the repair kit (8L0998711, cheapest I found incl VAT & free P&P GENUINE AUDI REAR WIPER MOTOR REPAIR KIT 8L0998711 | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-AUDI-REAR-WIPER-MOTOR-REPAIR-KIT-8L0998711-/320831382511)) and happily refit the unit back on to my A4!

Thanks again for all the advice, clues to get down to the culprit!

Well, this "rear washer" problem seems to reach the end. One problem down, next problem to solve (stiff door catch...).

[defever]

UPDATE:

The repair kit 8L0998711 arrived today! When through the instruction, greased up all the necessary items, put the motor compartment together, and back on to the back of the boot.

Tested the motor and jet wash, works fine, no leak out of the motor compartment. Victory is still short as I haven't put the old wiper yet. In fact I'm waiting for a aero rear wiper arm to come (hopefully tomorrow)!

Doing exactly as the dude from the above link did!

Now... search for pair of areo front wiper arms to match...

[defever]

The aero arm didn't arrive today and I have long drive tomorrow (and sounds like the weather is going to be miserable), so I decided to pop the original rear arm back on.

Yup the jet works, no leak from the motor. Victory. I noticed that the jet shoots out only one spot from the pivot. I thought the jet also rotates as the arm sweeps across the window. That explains the whole shaft-jet pipe mechanism.

Thanks all for the advice and allowing me to write on here (although I have A4...). Very useful forum indeed.

Safe motoring!

[sfhgolftdi]

I think I fixed it boys!

Thanks for the guide Gup, it was very useful.

Once I had got all of the back stripped down sure enough the rear washer pipe had become disconnected from the motor.

So I plugged it in and tested. No joy.

Right, must be blocked. So I stripped motor down and thought I'd have a look inside whilst I could to see if it was anything like Gup's (rusted):

Luckily all seemed good! So I carried on and blew through the main washer inlet pipe on the motor with an airline.
I also removed the outside washer jets and blew through these. I then gave everything a good rodding through with some spray gun tip needles that I had at work.
I got some gunk out and all seemed clear. Re-assembled and tested!

Success!

However. I noticed that water was dripping from the black plastic nipple that the rear washer hose connects to.
On closer inspection I notice that around the nipple there is either a compound or something similar which seals the nipple - and that some of this was missing (apologies for poor photo):

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b128/rossco_99/0903ADA8-DA98-46AC-B266-34BA1FAF82A3-797-0000002A949BFB9F.jpg

So I carefully put some silicone into the area that was missing, reconnected the hose and then siliconed the entire plastic nipple arrangement:



I put everything back together again and haven't used the rear washer yet - I thought I'd give it 24 hours for the silicone to fully go off.

I'll give it a go tonight and let you know what happens!

In this picture, how do you pull off the outside plastic nipple portion to expose this part? I am afraid it will break off, so I haven't tried to muscle it off yet. I tried to stick a thin implement in but it feels I am more likely to break the plastic doing that. Is it just a matter of carefully prying it off?