Engine wont start

[cracked block]

I have recently changed the engine over in my misses golf. Its the 115bhp AJM engine and i wont start.

The new engine was guaranteed for 40 days and I have had it running on easy start upto 4500rpm and sounds good but it wont run after or off its own steam. Its got new glow plugs that warm up well, it gets fuel from the tank returning back out of the engine. There is compression on the engine as it runs on easy start. I have used most of the things off my old engine as i know that was a good engine before i found a crack in the block when doing the head gasket. Ive been trying to get the engine going in the snow and cold all week and am loosing will power now.

Please give me some ideas ready for tomorrow.

Thanks Brian

[Doctle Odd]

Do you have access to VCDS? I'd try to get it scanned first you may have missed a connection somewhere or it could have a bad injector loom etc. Stay off the easi-start or you'll need another engine :)

[cracked block]

I have a snap on scanner that is available to me but only on monday night after work. I would imagine that it probably wont come back with any codes as i have tried this before but that was before i got it running with easy start.

I know easy start aint the best but needed to know the engine was good as i have already gone through this once but the first engine the block was no good as the bearings had all gone thanks to the polish ladf from birmingham that i bought the block off!

The injectors are not my original ones they are the ones that were in the new engine so should be good as the engine was tested before selling to me to give me the guarantee.

Thanks Brian

[cracked block]

There was only about 6 connections to connect cam / crank / oil / speed / injectors / glow plugs that would do anything the rest are just temp sensors etc. All connected. The injector looms can get the pins bent but they are all straight too.

[Doctle Odd]

Did you see it running? Might sound obvious but is fuel getting to the engine? A snap on scanner IMHO is not up to the job, Ross-Tech: VCDS: DTC Comparison (http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/dtc-comparison.html) there a plenty of members on here with VCDS that will give your car a scan at least you'll have a clear idea of any faults and problems. VWAF User Location Map - VCDS - Google Maps (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=209563024277134815192.0004c505be14b22419dbe)

[cracked block]

Its a proper £10,000 scanner that we use in work (Skoda Dealership) I will have to beg to borrow it as im not a technician so cant just take it. I live miles away from everyone too so thats why they aint come to me and I get charged £30 +Vat an hour for something i should be able to fix myself. Fuel is returning through the head and coming back through the return into the fuel filter and back to the tank. I have primed the fuel line from the tank to the filter too.

I didnt see the engine running as in most scrap yards.

[Crasher]

If it runs on a sniff and fuel is getting to the head and returning then the injectors are not opening. If there are no codes it is going to be a tough one. I had one in from a garage a few months back that would only run on ether, turned out to have four blocked solid injectors due to a failed pressure pump.

[cracked block]

Are the injectors controlled by the ecu and in turn controlled by the imobaliser?

Although not getting the key symbol up on the dash!

[Crasher]

Yes the injectors are ECU driven on a group earth with live trigger.

[cracked block]

Could I have damaged the ECU when messing around with the battery connections etc. I know this can happen on Vauxhalls a lot?

[Doctle Odd]

It wouldn't be that common on VW's as far as I know. Crasher knows his stuff and some other stuff as well! I'd change the injectors

[cracked block]

This is the second engine in the car with similar out come of the engine not starting. Both had different sets of injectors so i would probably not consider that unless im really unlucky, especially as the engine has a 40 day guarantee. Thinking more away from the engine and ancillaries?

Does the relay 109 work the glow plugs or the ECU or both as im thinking more ECU problem / imobaliser?

[Doctle Odd]

Not sure which relay for the glow plugs mate, I'll check tomorrow if you still need to find out. You can check for power with a test lamp. Is the immobiliser icon flashing? A VCDS scan can pick up stuff generic scanners miss regardless of price. Is there any kind of smoke or firing at all? Check if the egr valve is shutting fully too I have seen them stuck open pumping exhaust into the inlet manifold.

[cracked block]

Ive just re installed Ross-tech on my computer so i can try it tomorrow. It never worked last time it was on here because my computer had a virus. Will give it a go tomorrow.

No flashing off the immobiliser which is a car with a key isnt it?

[Doctle Odd]

Yes immobiliser is a little flashing orange icon on the instrument panel. the car will fire and die if it's flashing.

[cracked block]

Ok, doesnt flash at all that light so doesnt look like that then.

[Doctle Odd]

Was it an engine swap or a short motor?

[cracked block]

The first time it was just the block but then I've swapped the lot because the bearings were gone in the block I bought.

[Doctle Odd]

Take a look at the timing as well see if it set up properly. the AJM is a nice little engine my 2nd favourite, AFN being the mutts nutts for me

[cracked block]

Timing is spot on because I did it in work while the engine was in the boot of my Audi a4 with the afn engine in.

What a coincidence!

[Doctle Odd]

lol hopefully it's something simple that you overlooked.

[cracked block]

Was just looking at the other thread on this forum at the moment and someone is mentioning about a stop solinoid. Where is this positioned? As this could be the problem?

[Doctle Odd]

As far as I know the stop solenoid, when fitted, deploys in the event of an accident, I'm not sure if it does the same if there's a voltage spike. Did you check for smoke of any kind when it's cranking? does it crank quickly? Is there enough fuel pressure? Did you check all the earth connections?

[cracked block]

It cranks quick enough to start until the battery starts to go. There seams to be plenty of fuel pressure and all earth connections all look ok. As far as smoke is concerned dont think there is any because if its not firing it wont have any smoke will it?

Going out there now to try my netbook on the car.

Will also check connections on the ECU and also try disconnecting the fuel temp sensor as i have seen this on a different site.

[Doctle Odd]

Coolant temperature sensor will allow the glow plugs to heat longer, sometimes a few puffs of black, blue or grey smoke can give you clues as to why it wont start

[cracked block]

Used fresh diesel and that didn't work fed straight to the fuel pump. Can't do the diagnostics cos ite left the wire in my car and left my car at work so will have to do it on Monday night. Glow plugs are getting red hot too.

[Crasher]

The AJM is a PD engine, it does not have a stop solenoid as such, each injector is the solenoid If you have compression, timing and fuel it will run and as it runs on ether it obviously is not injecting fuel so the first step is a code read. You haven't been probing things with 12v such as the injectors have you?

[cracked block]

No I ain't the best with a 12v tester so don't generally use it. I think the injectors ain't opening but I think it is something that controls the injectors rather than the injectors them selves as they are under a guarantee with the engine! My old engine wouldn't start either with different injectors so would think its something else.

[Crasher]

You have got to code read it, not being able to do this constantly whilst working on a non starter would drive me mad!

[cracked block]

It is driving me mad!

[Crasher]

Cars cannot be fixed like they could even ten years ago, the game has changed out of all recognition relating to cars of this age in respect of parts cost, technical complexity, specialist tools and expertise required. Can you imagine what it will be like in ten years from now when people like yourself are attempting to repair the current crop of new cars?

[cracked block]

OK so my little cheap £16 scanner picked up no fault codes.

The works £10,000 snap-on scanner picked up

17568 Manifold Temp short

18027 Glow plug Relay Short

16706 Engine RPM sensor No Signal

19464 Cam position Sensor Plausible signal

17552 MAF Open short

So cleared the codes as i have tried starting the engine with sensors un pluged etc and ended up with just the Manifold temp short one which i cant clear at all. Then i try to start the car and the cam position sensor comes back on. I have swapped ver the cam sensor off my old engine which should be ok but the 2 codes are back on again.

Any ideas anyone?

Whats the Manifold temp short code?

[Doctle Odd]

17568 Fault code problem - TDIClub Forums (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=126871)

16706 16706/P0322/000802 - Ross-Tech Wiki (http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/16706/P0322/000802)

check these first

[Crasher]

Your cam timing is out. You can prove this by disconnecting the cam sensor and it should start BUT bear in mind this could damage the engine even more than it may already be damaged. Are you sure the MAP/IAT (AKA Thrust sensor) is plugged in?

[cracked block]

Just been out in the snow and minus 2 degrees again to check the MAP sensor. It is plugged in and the wiring looks to be intact. I have tried starting the car with the cam sensor unplugged and it didnt start!

The timing was done in work with 2 technicians checking me doing it while the engine was out. The pin in the cam sprocket and the locking tool on the crank sprocket. Belt off new belt on and the adjuster adjusted. The engine span over ok.

New MAP sensor? Also clean up the cam sensor marks on the cam sprocket? Think this might get it going because if the MAP sensor is telling the ECU the wrong readings then the ECU might not be putting any fuel in the engine!

Are my ideas right anyone? Or does anyone agree with the theory?

[Crasher]

OK, looks like I am wrong about the cam timing, shame as it would have been an easy fix. You now need to use the Snapoff to see if you have a cranking rpm signal. To do this you go into measuring blocks 001 and start cranking the engine and you have to keep cranking until the computer re-establishes comms and then watch the rpm output. I do this with the glow plugs out to reduce load and with a back up battery connected.

[cracked block]

Ok so sorry been a busy little boy. I have disconnected the cam and map sensor and the car starts for about 10 seconds. It starts at about 800 rpm then starts to creeps up to a 1000 rpm then cuts out. There is no accelerator to rev the engine and it sounds sweet while running (no knocks and bangs). I can do this all night until the battery dies. Connect the Map sensor and its the same thing. Connect both and it wont start!

I have tried 3 different cam sensors on the engine. My original one, one off the engine from the scrap yard and one from my mate in work off his old passat engine that had no faults.

I have done a continuity test between the cam sensor connection to the ECU. I have 3 wires. Blue and black, green and black and yellow and black with a thicker guage wire. The blue and black and green and black are both ok and go to pins 101 and 109 on the ECU plug. The sticking point is the yellow and black wire, is it and earth or not. I put the tester to earth and it pings for a second then stops no matter how long i keep it connected for. Does anyone know where this wire goes? I cant get my 2004 auto data disc to work on my computer to look at wiring diagram!

Dont want to quite bite the bullet and buy a cam sensor because what are the chances of having 3 broken sensors when 2 of the were know to be ok!

[Crasher]

For ***** sake man, cam timing! Seriously, check the cam timing, pin and plate it!

The yellow/black is a live from fuse 34.

[cracked block]

How can the cam timing be out. I did it with a technician at work with the proper tools! All locked off etc etc etc?

[Doctle Odd]

It's sounds like timing to me, it's easily checked and eliminated. Timing off won't show as a fault

[Crasher]

I don't know why it may be out but all I can tell from what you have posted is your car is showing the classic symptoms of a PD cam/crank sync error.

[Doctle Odd]

Did you get it to start?