Audi A6 2.7 & 3.0 TDi EGR & Intake system cleaning info please...

[gupsterg]

Hi peeps :) ...

Recently been going over data and found this in my photo library from when I changed my throttle body...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Idle%20Rev%20Issue/2012_10260123_zps8e70b969.jpg

Above is the throttle body adapter which connect to the top section of the intake system on engine...

I don't know why I never took note of above photo before :confused:...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Idle%20Rev%20Issue/Flow_zps34ea7f42.jpg

The red line is the throttle body which was replaced and camera shot is from that view point...

The yellow diamond is roughly the location of the clogged holes... yellow line is the EGR gas flow, blue lines when going through EGR cooler...

Cleaning throttle body adapter manually seems very doable easily as does the EGR pipe going to EGR valve (ref the the dome like thing for non mech.viewers like me :Blush:)...

I'm tempted to change EGR valve instead of cleaning (£80) and the EGR control flap & vacuum unit (£60)... the two reasons are firstly for speedier swapout, secondly the vacuum elements to these parts would be new...

I've found a used EGR cooler reasonably priced on ebay which I could clean before hand to speed up swap over...

Now that leaves the rest of the intake system the black upper/lower section... instead of removing I'm thinking Terraclean Or Link:- Diesel Intake System Cleaning (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4ABTo42tKA)
Near the latter part of this video I was amazed at the smoke :yikes:...

In the past additives have never helped me but I keep an open mind and new products are always available...

I may just do manual clean of throttle adapter and replace EGR systems parts and find and don't need to go further... ie the chemical cleaners above to clean rest of intake system...

The chemical cleaners seem so enticing as you think no part removal...

But last time when I cleaned my old throttle body I found that some of the carbon just wiped off and some was so stubborn that had to use a screwdriver to etch/scratch off :( ...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Idle%20Rev%20Issue/throttle_zpsc0544cff.jpg

Above throttle was the original from factory IMO as date code 01/08/05 on it... above throttle body was replaced with new :) ...

Any advice on chemicals for manual cleaning of EGR system? any people (besides JimC64) who have also had Terraclean/BG treatment?

[gupsterg]

Hurrah hurrah! My idle MVB for EGR is finally in spec vs actual :) ...

Soon lots of photos & videos... and the usual massive posts :beerchug:...

[gupsterg]

Now what did the man :You_Rock_say:-


None at the min just need to confirm if the egr side is ok, this is part when vas pc is far more powerful than vcds

So if the throttle valve is now resolved the next step i would take is to reduce the egr flow at the intake on the throttle valve by using a blanking gasket or reducing the diameter of the port hole

This will reduce the flow and again you could test it or check the egr is order (I think its leaking through when it should be off) or back to the worn injectors poor spray/dribble

Rule egr out firstly


You don't have to keep thanking me, its flattering but its hardly a glamorous job fixing cars more like a prison sentence lol

It may not be glam mate but I am really very very thankful for your posts! everywhere ;) ...

And I'm sorry A8 Tech & Crasher for the even more massive PM's compared to my posts... they may soon get shorter :) ...

I'm really pooped tonight I've spent nearly 3 nights going over TSB/TPI's, photos of my blinking engine bay...

So tomorrow will be when normal postal service resumes :beerchug:...

I think tonight shower, nice few shots of single malt & bed :approve:...

[gupsterg]

*** WARNING IMAGES MAYBE DISTURBING TO VIEWERS :yikes:***

Upper manifold Bank 1 ...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/TIMBank1_zps8c807ffb.jpg

Lower manifold Bank 1...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/LIMBank1_zps7f1d1b83.jpg

Upper manifold Bank 2...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/TIMBank2_zpsdd58f6e6.jpg

Lower manifold Bank 2...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/LIMBank2_zps857429e8.jpg

*** WARNING LIVE VIDEO ACTION MAYBE DISTURBING TO VIEWERS :yikes:***


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-1pbG8Sxbxc

*** WARNING FURTHER IMAGES MAYBE DISTURBING TO VIEWERS :yikes:***

Upper manifold throttle body adapter side (adapter removed)...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/TIMTBASide2_zps34e7f758.jpg

Zoom shot...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/TIMTBASide3_zps1cf3616b.jpg

The throttle body adapter... please note the very constricted EGR gas ports...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/TBABefore_zps4da5b74c.jpg

Now I've had a few rants about what happened with my car when I went to Dialynx...

I know I do not have the reputation of Keith Murray... but I went with him because of his reputation...

I am self employed just like him... I chose to go with him because I thought he would do a good job...

But an epic fail viewers :( ... people may think I'm upset they are right!!

I write posts & photograph as a record of what I do to help myself & others...

I will soon be gathering all information to post a thread in the garage recommendations sections....

Now I asked when my engine was out of the car about cleaning the manifold/EGR


As you know Jim just had chain rattle fix done, plus some other bits, in process of making a thread about it..

I asked the workshop the viewpoint of decoking EGR system, as engine was out and easy access...

Mechanic replied "When I did chains on my A8 I took a lot of time to decoke EGR system I felt no difference in performance unless having issues would not do" he then proceeded to view engine port holes etc and said "your engine looks clean for age/mileage I would not go down this route" so I left it at that

So only a thought have car manufacturer's already assessed that for a extensive period these items do not need cleaning/maintenance... for instance there are guidelines of engine oil, gearbox oil and various filters etc but not EGR system... and yes we may agree/disagree with some/other manufacturer recommendations

Is the port size already designed to allow for coking ... so unless flaps or valve malfunction would decoke be unnecessary

Post from here Link:- A6 EGR location & removal "how to?" - Page 2 (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?134701-A6-EGR-location-amp-removal-quot-how-to-quot&p=733232#post733232)

Other related posts to my Dialynx experience Link:- 1 (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?138282-BMK-3-0-TDi-hunting-erratic-idle-revs-%28-Have-I-got-the-most-lemon-A6%21%21%21-%29&p=758740#post758740) 2 (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?138282-BMK-3-0-TDi-hunting-erratic-idle-revs-%28-Have-I-got-the-most-lemon-A6%21%21%21-%29&p=759048#post759048)

You can see the advise above he gave :zx11:... If you ref the throttle body adapter image (last one above)...

He viewed that for me and since then and now I've done what 5-7k miles! It could never have built up to that state in those miles IMO and I'm not even of his professional skill!

I wish I'd looked then not now!

This is what Keith Murray ( Dialynx ) should have done for me...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/TBAAfter_zpsdb754057.jpg

I highlighted all the issues I thought I would like him to look at before booking, at booking...
I said please my car has been a problem not easy to spend £2k ish but please take time if we need to expand budget please just do right for me & let me know!

There's more to come so keep subscribed viewers :) !

[gupsterg]

The cleaning process :) ...

Step one scrape with screwdriver/tool... result below...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/Clean0_zpsfb9a2a0b.jpg

The mid clean video...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ANi6YieCvE

I also used my homemade tool from injector seat cleaning... to vacuum clean TBA...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Injector%20change/Tool1_zps64a1079e.jpg

Plus I used my mates air compressor to blast TBA... now the ports highlighted in red below... I used a 4mm2 elec wire bent as a hook to clean out any stubborn remnants...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/TBAAfter_zpsdb754057-1_zps2c720a12.jpg

Then I soaked a tea towel in diesel and cleaned bigger port on TBA... then I used a cable tie to feed cloth through EGR port...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/Clean1_zpsff2cc3b5.jpg

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/Clean2_zps8e59db5c.jpg

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/Clean5_zpsc3868a8a.jpg
2
http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/Clean4_zps85d75a18.jpg

I repeated steps as necessary to minimise chance of carbon passing with charge air to engine...

Early signs are looking good :) .... gonna weigh the carbon from the throttle body adapter... my guess it could fill a 250g to 500g marg pot easily...

Now I can see when A8 asked to constrict port it had no effect as EGR gas was not flowing any how...

After reading the SSP about the hot film air mass it had great analogy's on how air pressure is effected by temp...

The charge air was being cooled by the intercooler system, ECU thought EGR gas was flowing when air mass was connected as EGR system is enabled then... but due to carbon constrictions hotter EGR gas was not flowing to adjust the air mass... so air mass out...

When mass air was disconnected EGR system off ECU use other calculations so car run better/fine...

On the facelift (09-11) intercooling can also be adjusted with a control flap between the two intercoolers (ref SSP), on prefacelift there is none...

There maybe more work still gonna get vacuum gauge to test vacuum system on EGR valve & cooling flap...

There will diagrams on the channelling within throttle body adapter on the EGR port section soon...

[MFGF]

Good news Gup! Does this mean you no longer need a compression test? Is everything now fixed?

MF.

[gupsterg]

Honest answer yet fully don't know :) ... my version on Kites's signature "....If only I was as smart as this bloody car" :biglaugh:...

Car only been for few small journeys... after looking at other modules A8 is very right that the cars need time to settle... virtually all modules are constantly monitoring and adjusting things...

We may moan about design of cars but lot of this is due to how "We" want more power, better MPG, etc... laws want better emissions, etc...

All of these sensors, processes are to make it variable to factors like temperature, ageing of parts, etc and provide better power, more MPG, lower emissions, etc...

It has been such a mind opening and educational trip :D....

[Cwizard]

Wow just saw this thread now. I can't believe how much carbon is stuck. You reckon driving it at its max speed (257km/h on speedo) would clean it out? These engines are made for German autobahns where the speed limit is... well there is no speed limit lol so it could actually cope with very high speeds. Driving it ever so slowly on other roads would eventually create clogging up problems? Sounds logical to me.

[gupsterg]

Wow just saw this thread now.
Hi ya mate :) ...

Sorry again... been so snowed... I'll PM about what been going on ;)...


I can't believe how much carbon is stuck. You reckon driving it at its max speed (257km/h on speedo) would clean it out? These engines are made for German autobahns where the speed limit is... well there is no speed limit lol so it could actually cope with very high speeds. Driving it ever so slowly on other roads would eventually create clogging up problems? Sounds logical to me.

First of all you really don't need to worry about the carbon in the top section of the manifold (the black pipe work), secondly you really don't need to worry about the carbon in the swirl manifolds (the lower black section)...

Please reference Sparkers(:approve:) guide here Link:- Intake Manifold Replacement and Fix - 2.7 TDi + 3.0 TDi V6 Engines (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?137123-Intake-Manifold-Replacement-and-Fix-2-7-TDi-3-0-TDi-V6-Engines)
(Sorry mate just gonna steal your pic :Blush:)

http://i1258.photobucket.com/albums/ii535/000sparker000/b7e61682.jpg

So you can see most of the carbon gets stuck in the the top/lower section.... the engine IMO runs at such a high temp in the combustion chamber its not that bad down there...

Sorry Cwizard just gonna steal that great link (:approve:), viewers ref this thread to see some internals further down the engine... Link:- Audi A4 3.0 TDI catastrophic engine failure - TDIClub Forums (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=329283)

Now disregard the fluid/damage from the over heated glow plugs disintegrating and damaging the engine in above linked thread...

From what I could see carbon build up is from where the EGR enter onwards in the charge air system (air intake) the intercooler section will be fine (IMO)...

I never removed any carbon in the black top or lower section.... WHY?

Well all of that carbon has built up layer upon layer, it is not creating an issue, if I started removing it I would have needed to have been so careful that any carbon never ended up going further down the engine... or do full removal and very time consuming cleaning easier to buy and replace get new flaps, links, etc..

This stuff is very hard... I feel I would never wanna use a chemical to soften or remove it as would you really want chunks running through your engine? (again IMO)

I really had to take a screwdriver to the throttle body adapter, the ports were cleaned with another tool homemade from copper wire, will explain further when upload photos of that process :) ...

I will if things go to plan just swap out the complete lower manifold for new...

I've looked at getting a complete top section (used) from Germany, then at my leisure I can clean part and put on when do the lower section...

The main aim was to restore EGR gas flow which has been achieved :beerchug:...

Idle mass air readings MVB very good now :approve: ... I have videos of before and after VCDS live diags, not yet got chance to edit and upload :Blush2:...

Keep subscribed for more soon! :) ...

[sparker]

Hi Gup,

I had not looked at these posts until now, sounds like you maybe getting too the bottom of this problem, well done.

When I had the manifolds removed I had noticed the holes for the EGR in the throttle body where a bit blocked up with carbon and did clean those up. The old manifolds had no where near as much carbon build up on them as those in the pictures. I always clean any thing I see when doing a job, just as a preventative measure and had not even thought about saying anything in text as I didn't have any problems. Looks like they could be a problem area as the engines clock up the miles, so if this has fixed the revs then you could have found a simple, free fix for people try if they have similar symptoms.

If this is the answer then I am so pleased for you. New glow plugs and battery and then Gup take some rest and enjoy driving.

I look forward too hearing from you that Zesty is now Peach.

[gupsterg]

Hi Sparker :) ...

Honest answer still at this moment in a grey area about if this is the fix... not driven car much other than TD of few miles Sun, Mon 6 miles, today off drive to get@van then replace back...

First start is still the worst fluctuations but less erratic, smoother fluctuations, very little engine noise variation for now that mis-fire noise has gone...

What I do know deffo has changed is cold starts ie 8 hrs or more of standing are so less laboured and still not put new battery in yet :) ...

Going over the old videos of the MVB 03 for EGR at cold idle the mass air readings were in the region of 100 to 200 mg/stroke out between data 2 & 3...

Now it is amazing difference... below is MVB screen shot after TBA cleaned...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/TBACleaned_zpsd679da9e.jpg
Further tests are going to be done on the EGR valve and cooling flap but like you said taking it easier :beerchug:...

You guys are my online therapy group :o and if you asked my wife she'd say I need a lot :biglaugh:...

[Cwizard]

1905719058

these are some of my readings... just for the heck of it... :-)

[gupsterg]

Your ECU has specified air mass of 258.5 mg/stroke, actual air mass is 334mg/stroke ...

Ref link:- audi 3.0tdi engine measurement blocks (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?102358-audi-3-0tdi-engine-measurement-blocks)

003 Exhaust gas recirculation
1) Engine speed
At idle: 720 ... 820 rpm
2) Specified intake air mass
[mg/stroke]
3) Actual air mass
[mg/stroke]
4) EGR valve (http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_nkw=egr+valve) activation
[%]

010 Air quantities
1) Actual air mass
At idle: 210 ... 280 mg/stroke
At full throttle (http://www.shopzilla.co.uk/rd2?t=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kobobooks.com%2Febook%2FTit le%2Fbook-fKr61r2wyEKeiL6EfIW3ww%2Fpage1.html%3Futm_source%3 Dshopzilla-uk%26utm_medium%3Dcpc%26utm_campaign%3Dtitle-Full%2BThrottle&mid=267703&catId=13287&atom=10859&prodId=&oid=4607818385&pos=1&bId=18&bidType=0&bAmt=8e6fc9110ff780c3&cobrand=2&rf=af1&af_assettype_id=10&af_creative_id=6&af_id=11444): > 1050 mg/stroke
At ambient air pressure 970 ... 1020 mbar
2) Ambient air pressure
[mbar]
3) Actual charge pressure
At idle: 950 ... 1080 mbar
At full throttle (http://www.shopzilla.co.uk/rd2?t=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kobobooks.com%2Febook%2FTit le%2Fbook-fKr61r2wyEKeiL6EfIW3ww%2Fpage1.html%3Futm_source%3 Dshopzilla-uk%26utm_medium%3Dcpc%26utm_campaign%3Dtitle-Full%2BThrottle&mid=267703&catId=13287&atom=10859&prodId=&oid=4607818385&pos=1&bId=18&bidType=0&bAmt=8e6fc9110ff780c3&cobrand=2&rf=af1&af_assettype_id=10&af_creative_id=6&af_id=11444): > 2150 mbar
At ambient air pressure 970 ... 1020 mbar
4) Accelerator pedal position
[%]
- With exhaust gas recirculation switched off, e.g. due to
high intake air temperature the air mass at idle may be increased
In this case press the accelerator in short bursts and check
whether the air mass then decreases.
- Additionally check air mass via basic setting of EGR
and turbocharger basic setting.

Now the text in red above is what used to throw me due to lack experience :Blush2: ...

You can check intake air temp with below MVB...

007 Temperature senders
1) Fuel temperature
to 70 °C
2) Oil temperature
Warmed-up: 70 ... 110 °C
3) Intake air temperature
to 75 °C
4) Coolant temperature
Warmed-up: 70 ... 110 °C

EGR gas has other functions as well as adjusting air mass... google for EGR functions...

I will create PDF of test drive log on Sunday and attach to this post later my air mass reading now follow each other in MVB 03 very closely now...

Post 7 has been updated with cleaning process pic & video...

Currently I believe my EGR valve & cooling flap is working correctly i) because MVB's are good now ii) visual checks done linked below...

Link:- Cooling flap check (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?138282-BMK-3-0-TDi-hunting-erratic-idle-revs-%28-Have-I-got-the-most-lemon-A6!!!-%29&p=755482#post755482) Link:- EGR valve check (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?138282-BMK-3-0-TDi-hunting-erratic-idle-revs-%28-Have-I-got-the-most-lemon-A6!!!-%29&p=756348#post756348)

I've done a fresh video for MVB's 03, 10, 22 & BM 01 to 06 this morning at very low temps of below 0c...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlPyPXe1Oa4&feature=youtu.be

Above has been the most laboured start after TBA cleaned, battery still old just fitting new today plus the lowest outside temps... will post pic of car later...

[JimC64]

Awesome work Gup and an excellent post as always, thanks so much for sharing

Subscribed to keep abreast of updates.

[gupsterg]

Hi Sparker,

As always cheers for viewing & comments :) ...


The old manifolds had no where near as much carbon build up on them as those in the pictures.

Were yours the original ones (lower manifolds)? What was service regime?

As you know mine is 2005 with 80K, "Long Life" servicing previous owners now had 2 in 10K... I've even seen a TSB/TPI advise that better fuel (with additives) & oil prevents engine coking... maybe mine more nasty due to "Long Life" servicing...


Awesome work Gup and an excellent post as always, thanks so much for sharing

Subscribed to keep abreast of updates.

Hi Jim,

Again cheers mate for support :) ... you may recall that phone conversation before I took car in for "the Chain Job" IIRC you had your reservations/suspicions of level of service that may be provided... now it looks like you were right :) ...
Well Jim next phase has been planned :beerchug:, when action at present no idea :Blush2:...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/EGRSystem_zps01434996.jpg

In above image is location of EGR Cooler (Blue box), EGR cooling flap (Turq.box) & EGR Valve (Purple box)...

Below is an image I found on ebay showing the ports in EGR cooler...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/EGRCoolerports_zps6be23984.jpg


no because its a 3.0 tdi and the next fault will be egr cooler

Yes MVB's look good for EGR/Mass air but I think I could nail cleaning this with my mates air compressor... if TBA ports can block these seem smaller...
When I viewed EGR connecting pipe whilst doing TBA it had a sooty dry carbon so fingers cross blast of air should do it or pipe cleaners/homemade tool :) ...

The EGR cooling flap will also be cleaned or replaced... it looks like the cooling flap has a superseded part but EGR valve & cooler not...

[six_or_out]

Hi Gup,

I had the EGR cooler cleaned by Audi a couple of years ago when they replaced the intake manifold (due to the common failure).

A few weeks ago, I cleaned out the whole intake system (both upper and lower sections), the throttle body adapter and the throttle valve. Similar to yours, the two small holes in the adapter were completely clogged and although its a dirty job, it wasn't particularly difficult to clean.

After cleaning it feels like the car is breathing much easier :D.

Six.

[gupsterg]

After cleaning it feels like the car is breathing much easier :D.

x2, mate car really feel so much better to drive... I know it may seem to others that how much better could my car drive considering it now got new injectors (x6), throttle & MAF... plus all chains & tiptronic oil done...

But it is amazing :) ...


A few weeks ago, I cleaned out the whole intake system (http://www.shopzilla.co.uk/rd2?t=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bookdepository.co.uk%2FThe-Scientific-Design-of-Exhaust-and-Intake-Systems%2F9780837603094%3Fredirected%3Dtrue%26utm_ medium%3DShopzilla%26utm_campaign%3DShopzillaUk%26 utm_source%3DUK%26utm_content%3DThe-Scientific-Design-of-Exhaust-and-Intake-Systems&mid=222598&catId=13734&atom=10932&prodId=&oid=4568037697&pos=1&bId=18&bidType=0&bAmt=8e6fc9110ff780c3&cobrand=2&rf=af1&af_assettype_id=10&af_creative_id=6&af_id=11444) (both upper and lower sections), the throttle body (http://www.shopzilla.co.uk/rd2?t=http%3A%2F%2Ftracking.searchmarketing.com%2F click.asp%3Faid%3D1618947596&mid=261293&catId=100000296&atom=100000302&prodId=&oid=4628981819&pos=1&bId=18&bidType=0&bAmt=527ebd5a76998bd3&cobrand=2&rf=af1&af_assettype_id=10&af_creative_id=6&af_id=11444) adapter and the throttle valve. Similar to yours, the two small holes in the adapter were completely clogged and although its a dirty job, it wasn't particularly difficult to clean.

My lower manifolds are original, so are the swirl motors & links... I'm hoping to do all soon :) ... how did your original manifolds look like? at that time what mileage? what service regime?

Your the second person (third me :) ) who said they've cleaned throttle body adapter... seems pretty common then IMO...

ATB
Gup

[six_or_out]

There was only one original manifold, the other was from 2009 (replaced by Audi at 90k miles). To be honest there was very little build up on them compared to your photographs. The original one had a few MM of build-up on the flaps. The one from 2009 had minimal build up on it. I used a foaming degreaser, worked a treat ;)

The car has got 144,000 miles on it now and has been on variable servicing since new.


Six.

[gupsterg]

Another query six_or_out & sparker as I'm trying to understand why my manifold/tba would be so coked up...

So six_or_out as you've been on "Long life" servicing as well that throws that out the mix but my car even if same year as yours half the mileage roughly...

So does this further reinforce that "Long life"=motorway driving/higher miles a year and "Interval"=local/lower miles a year...
My injectors were the very first revision until a month ago (059 130 277 S) now are 059 130 277 BD... Link:- A6/C6 injector PROBLEM - Replacement/refurbished injectors possible? (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?133290-A6-C6-injector-PROBLEM-Replacement-refurbished-injectors-possible)

What are yours? have you had replacement ever?

So sparker yours is 2006 Allroad 3.0 TDi...

What service regime? what mileage swirl manifolds done? injector rev/replacement ever?

Thanks in advance guys for input :fing02:...

What mileage have you guys decoked the throttle body adapter? how often?

It may seem like data I don't need but could help fellow V6 owners :grouphug:...

I have also found a TSB/TPI relating to this coking in the TBA (using my VIN data) so it must be common for them to have this documented!

[sparker]

Hi Gup,

Mine is on "Long Life" but while I have owned the car it does have an oil change every year. Original injectors. Cleaned the throttle body adapter when I did manifolds at about 62,000 miles. The holes where dirty but not blocked. Just a case of the holes being a bit bigger after cleaning than they had looked.

I had thought the EGR valve was for recirculating the gasses that build up in the engine (closed breather system) and stood for Engine Gas Recirculation. Obviously, more recently having read on this site the problems with exhaust gas recirculation I now know what they do.
In any case I would assume that if your injectors where at fault for a while then the exhaust gases would be dirtier, sootier and more contaminated, this would then be recirculating through the system and causing your lava flow looking manifold inners.

Does look like a good clean up of your system would be a good idea but thats more work more hassle!

[gupsterg]

Original injectors

So I'm guessing yours would be (depending on prod.date):-

059 130 277 AB DROPPED 01/09/2006
059 130 277 AH DROPPED 01/04/2009

Now AH rev (2nd to last) were the longest used besides BD (the last rev)... Ref this post Link:- My old injectors

(http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?133290-A6-C6-injector-PROBLEM-Replacement-refurbished-injectors-possible&p=721687#post721687)So yours would be 3 - 4 revisions newer than my old ones...


In any case I would assume that if your injectors where at fault for a while then the exhaust gases would be dirtier, sootier and more contaminated, this would then be recirculating through the system and causing your lava flow looking manifold inners.

What you've said above is what I'm thinking currently... when car used to idle it ponged really badly enough for you not to wanna stand behind it...
I just thought its a 3.0 TDi without DPF 70-80K miles so perhaps normal smell... after change of injectors even wife has commented how good exhaust fumes are :) ...


Does look like a good clean up of your system would be a good idea but that's more work more hassle!

I agree with what your saying but due to all that has been done must crack on :) ... also now after viewing it my mind thinks what if a chunk literally falls off :rolleyes:!...

To minimise hassle I'm trying to find parts to just swapped out then clean my old to keep/flog on...

I can get used top section of manifold & throttle body adapter for £35 delivered... the lower manifolds is tricking shall I buy new or just get old ones and clean up :confused:...

It took me a good while to clean the TBA and that had no moving parts and smaller...

I think I missed out on a bargain here :banghead::banghead::banghead: Link:- V.W. / Audi 3.0 tdi intake manifolds | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/V-W-Audi-3-0-tdi-intake-manifolds-/221175148393?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item337f10ef69&nma=true&si=IGhjQimrCQyt5EW6xCqhsHBoH24%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557)

[sparker]

Morning Gup,

I would think remove manifolds clean and fit with the lever and link arm repair kit. Carb cleaner and stuff like that should do the job, you probably won't get it all off like new but should get most of the carbon removed. That amount of carbon must affect the air flow, removing cleaning and servicing them should be a cheap and rewarding job (cheaper even than the £50). Just a thought but why not remove the manifolds and do the glow plugs at the same time, the glow plugs would be much more accessible.

[gupsterg]

That amount of carbon must affect the air flow
I agree, besides air flow another thing it could effect to a small degree is air pressure IMO...

removing cleaning and servicing them should be a cheap and rewarding job (cheaper even than the £50).
I agree, but my take on it is that I can have all the bits prep'd before hand, take my time cleaning them and speedier swap over...

Just a thought but why not remove the manifolds and do the glow plugs at the same time, the glow plugs would be much more accessible.
I've also been thinking this :), also makes working on EGR system easier as well...

My ideal list of current work would be:-

1. Clean top & bottom manifolds
2. Clean EGR valve, EGR cooler & cooling flap unit (possibly vacuum test)
3. Replace glowplugs (possibly compression test)

Again the above list would be easier/quicker to do in one hit with all parts collected before hand... now I have GP's, rest of the stuff costing (some new/used) £175 only not priced swirl manifold & other test tools...

Then after running it for a while try Terraclean Link:- Terraclean anyone?? - Page 4 (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?135413-Terraclean-anyone&p=735901#post735901)

It may help engine or not... but I'm game after cleaning the complete intake manifold before that I think not really worth it as too much coking for it IMO...

[CrazyBoutCars]

Wow great shots, thanks for sharing. We can all learn so much from this. I would recommend using Liqui Moly's Pro Line intake system cleaner for Diesel motors, depending on how bad it is you may even be able to clean with out removing any parts. Due to the fuel manufactures meeting only the minimum government standards on fuel quality if you used a regular dose of their Super Diesel additive it will prevent this build up from happening again in the future. It worked wonders for my 2005 Jetta 1.9L TDI when this happened to me. I check the intake regularly now, and the build up never gets this bad as I keep using the Super Diesel Additive. I wish I would have taken the pictures like you did.

[Guest 2]

I would love to know why your IP comes back to Germany when you state you're in Canada?

Well be keeping an eye out then more than likely :banned:

[gupsterg]

Been doing some more research before taking apart car further...

I'd read this thread before but not really soaked the content in at the time as I was busy with the chain rattle resolution :Blush2:... the best nuggets for me :) ...

Extract from Link:- Post 1 (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?98217-EGR-and-intake-manifold-cleaning-3-0-V6-TDI&p=514781#post514781)


I understand a blocked or clogged EGR valve can give 'insufficient detected' reading. The EGR enters the air intake system at the Throttle valve control and could therefore be clogging that up as well.

Extract from Link:- Post 6 (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?98217-EGR-and-intake-manifold-cleaning-3-0-V6-TDI&p=515420#post515420)



Anyway. Discovered that the play in the butterfly flaps was very severe compared to the other manifold. Focused most of my cleaning endevours on this manifold - did a fair bit on the rest as well - The bottom of the manifold, once you remove the rubber gasket, allows you to remove the butterfly flaps and the 6 grommets that hold it in place. After a bit of a clean up it was clear why there was so much play. The grommets were very worn - least worn at the motor end and wear increased as you went down the line to the point furthest away from the motor arm end. The butterfly flats themselves showed some serious wear one one side. Again, least nearest the motor arm and most at the furthest point away.

Reassembled the lot, only this time swapped the grommets around so that the least wear was at the furthest point etc. This doesn't appear to be enough, but will have to act as a temp fix until I can replace correctly.

Checked out the EGR system and decided to leave that put for right now as dirt in there appeared minimal - dry powder and loose, easy off - not gummy at all. I guess the heat that it carries, even through the EGR cooler system is enough to keep it loose.
Can't say the same when it hits the fresh air flow. Mixes with oil residues etc and gums up nicely in the manifold a little way down.

Now when I viewed EGR connecting pipe to throttle body adapter bold text in above quote was what I was seeing...

Next a great video...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hL4VwMKO0Pg

I know above info from thread/video is different VAG cars but same engine same issues...

I don't have any fault codes relating to swirl manifold system...

I have had no fault codes to my issues as such other than the throttle body...

Even when EGR flow was low causing the idle air mass readings to be out there were no faults codes...

I just hope when I get to the stage of cleaning the lower manifolds I do not remove deposits of carbon which are helping to reduce play on the butterfly system :Blush2:...

My lower manifold part no's

059 129 711 T (Bank 2), dropped 01/06/2006...

059 129 712 H (Bank 1), dropped 01/12/2005...

[sparker]

The manifolds that I purchased from Germany where fully rebuilt with uprated parts, butterflies, etc. I had thought after the linkage repair parts had become available that maybe the new manifolds where an over kill and a waste of some money as they probably don't wear out. Now I think it was money well spent. Cleaned, uprated and no play.

[gupsterg]

Hi Sparker,

I'm just buying up the bits I need to do next stage of work :) ...

How are the new parts in manifolds uprated? indepth description/photos be handy...

I know it maybe more £££ I'm blowing but at mo when weather right I just wanna undo bits once and do it all and then sit back...

I don't wanna keep undoing parts to get at say glowplugs, lower manifold, EGR system, etc...

When car had been in for the chain rattle fix I had hoped all would be done in one hit, it's just been an unrelenting struggle with this car with all the issues :Blush2:...

But its met one stubborn owner ;) ... at times I feel so happy when I resolve things :) ... then at times I feel so low :( ...

Anyway lets get that data :)... so many bits are new & if the rest are renewed that remap should yield some good results :biglaugh:...

ATB
Gup

[sparker]

Here is a copy of what they do to the manifolds.


Manifolds offered on this listing are used, genuine VAG ones which underwent a unique process of complete remanufacture & reinforcement at our workshop restoring them to fully working order.During the process, crucial manifold parts have been singled out with new ones. This includes complete replacement of:


swirl flaps
swirl flaps bearings
swirl flaps control levers
actuator connecting lever

to specially fitted, stronger units.
Result is a product of greatly increased durability - thus a perfect replacement choice for all 2.7 - 3.0 TDI engine owners.

[CrazyBoutCars]

I just thought I could help by sharing my experience. Being a passionate VW owner like yourselves. In my spare time and yes even on vacation I like to see what others are doing with their vdubs. Thanks anyway for the opportunity to share and be helpful thanks and good bye.

[Guest 2]

I just thought I could help by sharing my experience. Being a passionate VW owner like yourselves. In my spare time and yes even on vacation I like to see what others are doing with their vdubs. Thanks anyway for the opportunity to share and be helpful thanks and good bye.

If I'm wrong then please accept my apologies.

It's just that your first two posts were recommending a product and your location didn't match your IP address and most spam accounts are like this.

[six_or_out]

Another query six_or_out & sparker as I'm trying to understand why my manifold/tba would be so coked up...

So six_or_out as you've been on "Long life" servicing as well that throws that out the mix but my car even if same year as yours half the mileage roughly...

So does this further reinforce that "Long life"=motorway driving/higher miles a year and "Interval"=local/lower miles a year...
My injectors were the very first revision until a month ago (059 130 277 S) now are 059 130 277 BD... Link:- A6/C6 injector PROBLEM - Replacement/refurbished injectors possible? (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?133290-A6-C6-injector-PROBLEM-Replacement-refurbished-injectors-possible)

What are yours? have you had replacement ever?


Hi Gup,

Still on the original injectors, I don't know what the part numbers are. I can check once the weather clears up :o.

Only one intake manifold was replaced in 2009, along with 2 glow plugs. The other 4 are still the original ones as far as I'm aware. I use shell V-Power diesel most of the time or regular diesel with a shot of Redex if V-Power isn't available. I don't know if that makes any difference....

Six.

[gupsterg]

Cheers guys for info :) ... I think whatever's caused the carbon I won't get to the bottom of it :Blush2:...

Since owning I've used V-power/ESSO supreme diesel... injector cleaner was ran several times before injector change to new rev...

The car has had two oil changes in 10k miles under my ownership... last nite ordered more as I never changed oil after injector change... I was real careful not to contaminate engine when doing the change...

Once intake/EGR/glowplugs done will change oil... just ordered bits for the EGR cleanup as well... will also do new seals from Audi...

[Cwizard]

I can officially state that using Liqui Moly Diesel Clean & Boosthas made my engine run much smoother. The rev fluctuation has mostly disappeared. I did use a huge lot more than what they tell you to use. I'm going to change the fuel filter in the next few days.
I still can't get to the bottom of those revs jumping up and down while driving. I've even noticed since yesterday that my gearbox has been very clucky when changing into 3rd from 4th and into 5th from 4th. Try giving yours a bit of liqui moly diesel clean & boost and see what happens.

[gupsterg]

I can officially state that using Liqui Moly Diesel Clean & Boost has made my engine run much smoother. The rev fluctuation has mostly disappeared. I did use a huge lot more than what they tell you to use. I'm going to change the fuel filter in the next few days. Try giving yours a bit of liqui moly diesel clean & boost and see what happens.

Will do mate :fing02: ...

Ok peeps :) ...

Earlier this week the spline bits came to allow dismantling of the EGR system further... but I've also been shopping for other parts :) ...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WB31nEVhyDU

So in above the big rectangle ports are what meets the EGR cooler... the round section is the straight through when EGR cooler not being used... the two pipes top and bottom are coolant connections to cool this module and EGR as well ... we can also see the vacuum unit at top and its default position and of the butterfly in the straight through section...

Next SRT88 has kindly given be these pictures, so thanks mate :beerchug:...

Bank 1

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/Library%20pics/Bank1_1_zps5d8f3122.jpg

Bank 1 Zoom

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/Library%20pics/Bank1_2_zps5243935d.jpg

Bank 2

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/Library%20pics/Bank2_1_zps7f5c411f.jpg

Bank 2 Zoom

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/Library%20pics/Bank2_2_zps32b28802.jpg

Above photos are form a VW Phaeton Feb 2007 3.0TDI mileage unknown...

I've also been scouring ebay/forums for other images of manifolds and most are a little more coated than above but yet to see some like mine :( ...

I've even seen some pics of same part no manifolds as mine and not the same lava like coating :aargh4:...

God knows what gone on with my cars manifolds :(...

[gupsterg]

The EGR valve is here now :) ...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EC980Ou2dg&feature=youtu.be

Now waiting on some inlet manifolds ;) ...

[Cwizard]

Nice n' shiny :-) :beerchug: good luck with the new part.

[Golfedd]

this is awesome info man - thanks for taking the time to write it all up! I'm about to tackle my EGR and carbon on my B7 2.7 V6 TDi and this is really useful info and pic!

hope all works out good for you! I'll be keeping an eye on this! :D

[gupsterg]

Thank you for viewing :) ... Thank you acknowledging how viewing the videos/photos it is helping you :) ...

As owners we don't see these things... by viewing them we can make better judgements on what we can do/get done...

Sorry about slow progress but weather been hindering me :Blush2:...

Many a time I have thought I'll leave airing my gripes/issues as:-

i) may make selling my car hard...

ii) very time consuming to take photos/videos and editing/uploading...

iii) if I was not taking the media shots it would mean I finish a job quicker as well...

BUT I find it hard sometimes to visualise stuff from text... I read threads and lack of detail or media make them hard to follow to do yourself/understand...

I know it may sound selfish but I have given alot vs taking from this forum... but soon I must just stop posting :Blush2:...

However much I dress it up this car has been soul destroying further exaggerated by the poor detail of work by garages I've been to...

When you employ profesionals who do things for a living/day in day out you expect them to be better than amateurs like me!

I will be finishing the threads I've started before I become a lurker...

[JimC64]

I just thought I could help by sharing my experience. Being a passionate VW owner like yourselves. In my spare time and yes even on vacation I like to see what others are doing with their vdubs. Thanks anyway for the opportunity to share and be helpful thanks and good bye.

Crazy - I understand your frustration as all you did was post some helpful info with a link to a product you felt may be of use in this situation, you clearly felt you were jumped on immediately. Its unlike Chris as far as I know and perhaps we've been having spam issues I'm not aware of.
Don't let this skew your view of an otherwise pretty good forum, hopefully you continue to enjoy the site


Thank you for viewing :) ... Thank you acknowledging how viewing the videos/photos it is helping you :) ...

As owners we don't see these things... by viewing them we can make better judgements on what we can do/get done...

Sorry about slow progress but weather been hindering me :Blush2:...

Many a time I have thought I'll leave airing my gripes/issues as:-

i) may make selling my car hard...

ii) very time consuming to take photos/videos and editing/uploading...

iii) if I was not taking the media shots it would mean I finish a job quicker as well...

BUT I find it hard sometimes to visualise stuff from text... I read threads and lack of detail or media make them hard to follow to do yourself/understand...

I know it may sound selfish but I have given alot vs taking from this forum... but soon I must just stop posting :Blush2:...

However much I dress it up this car has been soul destroying further exaggerated by the poor detail of work by garages I've been to...

When you employ profesionals who do things for a living/day in day out you expect them to be better than amateurs like me!

I will be finishing the threads I've started before I become a lurker...


Wow Gup - you make it sound like you're leaving the forum almost......why?

Please believe me when I say that I and many many others really appreciate your lengthy indepth posts usually c/w many pictures & or videos clearly showing the process involved.
Its posts like these that help to make this and other forums and the posts that members need to help them to resolve their issues with their vehicles. Posts with 28 lines of unbroken text explaining do this, then do that, unbolt this and remove that, really don't help anywhere near as much.

You have probably given as much if not way more than most here and we need more members like you, not less!

I for one sincerely hope you continue on here and post as you have done in the past, your posts have been an invaluable source of information for many. I've been fortunate enough to share a few posts / comments back n forth and count you as a friend and one I'm glad to know.

Thanks Gup :beerchug:

[gupsterg]

Hi Jim,

Thanks again mate as always for support :) ... if it was not for you guys I don't know what I would have done :) ...

There are many reasons why I wish to be a lurker and not a poster... but mate not the thread for it...

The biggest anguish has been really how most instances of giving car for remedial work has ended in such poor results or attention to detail...

Everytime I have given car for work instead of hop skipping like Britney Spears...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-u5WLJ9Yk4

I'm left picking up the pieces :( ... what I could do with her intake system! :naughty: ...

Maybe once I've fixed car & had a break I'll be back to wreak havoc on-line! ;) ...

ATB
Gup

[Sam]

Hey Gup, if you leave VWAF, I'll find where you live (I actually will, don't ask how) and drag you back.

Consider this your first and last warning.

:)

[Golfedd]

Hey Gup, if you leave VWAF, I'll find where you live (I actually will, don't ask how) and drag you back.

Consider this your first and last warning.

:)

haha that reminded me of

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7xxdcwS921r74ytao1_1280.jpg

Just not as dramatic as we'd really just give you some tea, biscuits and a laptop with VWAF as it's homepage :beerchug:

[gupsterg]

So yesterday I tried to get the EGR valve and connecting pipe to upper intake section off to view EGR cooler/flap unit without removing them...

EGR Cooler (Blue box), EGR cooling flap (Turq.box) & EGR Valve (http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_nkw=egr+valve) (Purple box)...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/Try%201/EGRSystem_zps43480cf0.jpg

This was the view I was trying to achieve... but "In situ"...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/Library%20pics/HFoyQXRzGAjd131429018913P270_zps09208151.jpg

So I thought undo these two...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/Try%201/DSCF5321_zps8889e4d6.jpg

Then these two..

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/Try%201/DSCF5322_zps7e9cc925.jpg

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/Try%201/DSCF5323_zps9a6187e4.jpg

But look at this (this is a metal pipe)...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/Try%201/DSCF5324_zps67d352fb.jpg

Now here is a video showing its start/finish,etc...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rw_gHIt23U

Now what is this? coolant bleeder pipe :smashfrea...

So in video above at about start (0.06/0.07) you will see a banjo bolt... there is another which I can't photo/video but is located approximately near the EGR cooling flap unit on engine block (red boxes below image)...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/Try%201/Coolantbleederpipe_zpsd10e79b7.jpg

Now I'm not going to go into how much of a PITA removing the upper/lower manifolds are but you also seem to have to contend with the "Coolant bleeder pipe" at this point this happened Link:- I'm utterly depressed :( ... (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?142703-I-m-utterly-depressed-%28)

So anyway I'm taking a break from mucking around with the EGR until I replenish the will to do it!

Because I'm feeling like this http://yoursmiles.org/bsmile/sad/b0411.gif & this http://yoursmiles.org/bsmile/sad/b0407.gif& this http://yoursmiles.org/bsmile/sad/b0406.gif& thishttp://yoursmiles.org/bsmile/sad/b0402.gif& thishttp://yoursmiles.org/bsmile/sad/b0412.gif& thishttp://yoursmiles.org/bsmile/sad/b0405.gif& thishttp://yoursmiles.org/bsmile/sad/b0401.gif& thishttp://yoursmiles.org/bsmile/sad/b0410.gif...

Mechanics must loathe V6 owners IMO!

[DieTryin']

Hey Gup

Do you have access to the ELSA workshop guide?

I've just had a look at EGR valve removal and the intake manifold (top section only) plus the vacuum hose attached to the valve are the only bits that have to come off to remove the EGR valve (no special tools listed either). Allegedly :confused:!

The bolts holding the valve on are 25Nm torque so may need a bit of dismantling fluid to get them out as space is tight.

Sorry if you've already seen the workshop guide! :Blush:

[gupsterg]

Removing and installing bottom section of intake manifold (left-side) - vehicles from 08.2004 onwards

Then view the 8th image and ref with my video/photos...

I'm open to all suggestions at mo :) ...

[gupsterg]

Right guys some more brainstorming :) ...

A thought crossed my mind that these "Metal coolant pipes" must be an issue when doing the swirl manifold replacement...

Link:- VW AUDI Forum - VWAF (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?137123-Intake-Manifold-Replacement-and-Fix-2-7-TDi-3-0-TDi-V6-Engines)


There is a cooler pipe on both sides with a bracket attached that is held in place with one of the manifold bolts, these can be carefully moved slightly and the manifolds lifted a little and twisted to get them out from under the pipes and wires.

Also ref video in post 46 (0:06/0:07)...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/Try%202/Mani1_zps25a7dbc3.jpg

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/Try%202/Mani3_zpsf0f2cf52.jpg

The side by the EGR...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/Try%202/Mani3_zps5124abb5.jpg

So is my only option to remove complete intake manifold system, clamp coolant hoses, undo the EGR connecting pipe from turbo to EGR flap unit, remove bolts on mounting plates of EGR cooling system?

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/Try%202/P1010645_zps18c4ca48.jpg


So I end up with this out of engine some how manoeuvred between the plethora of pipes/wires,etc... http://yoursmiles.org/bsmile/sad/b0405.gif...

[DieTryin']

Hmmm!

But Gup, is the EGR + cooler definitely the problem?

[gupsterg]

A bit unsure at present http://yoursmiles.org/bsmile/sad/b0412.gif...

why? well

As I couldn't easily gain access to EGR system I've done some tests (each separately)...

i) removed hose to EGR valve, check MVB 03 so can see go out of spec wildly and correct spec once vacuum restored and valve operating... by this test I gather EGR valve not staying open and is opening when needed...

ii) removed hose to EGR cooling flap, check MVB 03 so can see go out of spec with very small amount and correct once vacuum restored, reasoning why it is going out of spec at idle is due to how cooler restrict EGR flow and at idle cooling flap correct default is straight through...

But also have another line of enquiring going Link:- Vacuum check valve (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?102789-Vacuum-check-valve)

[stretch o1]

Hi gup when you where doing you tbs on you 3.0tdi was it the procedure below i can not access it getting error


[Select]
[01 - Engine]
[Basic Settings - 04]
Group 060
[Go!]


by the way nice write ups gup fair play

[gupsterg]

Are your referencing to throttle valve body adaptation? AFAIK on A6 4F you just replace valve and no need to adapt, IIRC even VAG service guide have no recommendation on this but will double check...

I've just got hold of an EGR cooler for £25... so now only need some intake manifolds and some good weather to crack on :) ....


by the way nice write ups gup fair play

Thank you :beerchug:...

[stretch o1]

yea gup the electric throttle body the cogs where sheered off in mine replaced with a new one from gsf but car is hunting abit at idle i thought it needed to be aligned but i am not able to access it through vcds probably just on the petrol version it need tba,
i seen in one of your posts you where thinking of getting a remap when i was having few issues with my own a chap connected up his autoboss to try sort few things i think he updated something and now i have a code (P0698 - 001 - Too Low - Intermittent, 17082 - Sensor Reference Voltage C) and coil light flashes only when im stopped in traffic ect no loss of power cant trace it, it has me stumped

[gupsterg]

Hi,


yea gup the electric throttle body the cogs where sheered off in mine replaced with a new one

Exact same thing happened mine.. very common issue...

I hope this not come across bad... start a thread, we will all chip in... if we carry on in this thread it will be out of context for the thread title...

Regards
G

[gupsterg]

The used cooler arrived today for studying :) ...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgxtBV7XEQ8&feature=youtu.be

From some of the markings on the screws the EGR cooler & cooling unit may not have been ever separated since factory fitting...
As it has 2005 year stamp will be interesting to see when EGR cooler & cooling unit separated how blocked it is...

[stretch o1]

not at all gup ya bad <REMOVED!> HA HA.
yeh i know the throttle issue good quality audi part :biglaugh: alright i wasn't going into all that ,just wasn't sure if it needed tba to be done
yea ive started a thread on it but no body loves me drop in any input welcome.
if i sort it ill put up result head wrecker when people never finish post because they sorted it out not leaving any info for us poor sods .
Ps gup you should put all your old parts in a box a big box at that, and send it to audi asking them how much they pay designers to make these parts guaranteed to fail
because there geniuses :p

[gupsterg]

Hi ya mate :) ...

After reading your post I checked your profile for started thread as couldn't see one in the C6 section...

Your thread is this one Link:- little help on fault codes (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?142952-little-help-on-fault-codes)

It can be a little quiet in that section... will look at your VCDS log tomorrow and if there is anything I can share I will mate :beerchug:...

You may get someone possibly see this link and go over there as well...

Again not being unhelpful just a little selfish :o so I can be with some people I need to be with ;) ...

ATB
G

[gupsterg]

As it was a nice day and Peachy the Peach A6 has been behaving I thought why not examine the EGR cooler which I'd bought from ebay (used)...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kho_auAnbNc

This is from a 2005 V6 no idea on mileage will try to ask ebay seller... those bolts are M6 which fit snugly in the holes (15 a side)...

Very little blockage I inserted a cable tie and could feel it bend round but too short to protrude out... the sooty powder removes very easily to show shiny metal below... the bolts were very easy to open between cooler & flap unit none were seized, just a little resistance at first then AOK...

Still no idea when or if I will remove and clean my own one... but IMO you would know if you had a blocked EGR cooler via the MVB 03 module 01... you can force EGR always through cooler by just unplugging elec.harness to the EGR cooling flap solenoid and observe MVB 03, EGR valve will still open... Link:- audi 3.0tdi engine measurement blocks (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?102358-audi-3-0tdi-engine-measurement-blocks)

When I was doing glow plug on cyl.6 I was able to photograph the other banjo bolt on the coolant pipe... Please ref this post Link:- Post 46 (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?141451-Audi-A6-2-7-amp-3-0-TDi-EGR-amp-Intake-system-cleaning-info-please&p=786245#post786245)

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/DSCF5376_zpsa023e5d4.jpg

[gupsterg]

Due to weather not really got that far with cleaning intake manifold top/bottom (x2) :( ... I also feel the coking is not only due to EGR gas/injectors but could also be exaggerated by how the crankcase ventilation system vents into charge air system... Link:- Oil residue on turbo face and/or output charge air pipe ... (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?144903-Oil-residue-on-turbo-face-and-or-output-charge-air-pipe)

Haven't been able to find cheap used swirl manifolds :( ... the pair that I missed out on in post 23, which sold for £60 on ebay where probably the cheapest used I've seen so far :( ...

Has anyone done the EGR valve/cooler removal and got any experience share?

[techfreak]

After reading this thread and what a fantastic resource of info. My question was why had the subject of egr delete not come up?

Is it possible?

I know alot of other vag groups do this with great success.

[gupsterg]

My EGR/Mass air is out of spec again :banghead::banghead::banghead: ...

This has been the best capture of event ever :D... after 5-6 sec you will see a swing down to 777RPM then regular up/down of 777RPM-819RPM...

EGR valve is being requested to open note the 20%, closed is 90%+...


http://youtu.be/gNYmvJPdXVI

The video has been edited to the event... engine had been driven to get a little warm so to take the glow plug equation out...


i) After switching on the ignition, the Glow Plugs Q10 – Q15 are switched on via the Automatic Glow Time Control Module J179 by the ECM at a temperature of less than 20°C.

ii) Post-start glowing stops when engine coolant temperature reaches 35°C.

So the saga continues :biglaugh:...


After reading this thread and what a fantastic resource of info. My question was why had the subject of egr delete not come up?

Is it possible?

I know alot of other vag groups do this with great success.

IIRC I saw a 3.0 TDi thread of EGR delete but before I do anything like I really wanna clean upper/lower manifolds....

[gupsterg]

Rights peeps :) ...

I recently acquired a top section of the manifolds (item 40) and a throttle body adapter item (item 31) Link:- http://www.jimellisaudiparts.com/showAssembly.aspx?ukey_assembly=750912&ukey_make=1081&ukey_model=15625&modelYear=2010&searchString=charge%20air

I've tried cleaning the top section manifold by manual method, gonna also use some bottle cleaner brushs to clean internally any ideas on what chemical may aid cleaning?

I've now in my possession new EGR valve, new EGR cooling unit , used EGR cooler, used top section manifold, used throttle body adaptor, only lack the lower manifolds items 46 & 47 on audi parts link above ... any peeps have any going? if anyone see some cheap ebay listings please PM :) ...

[MarkTM]

any ideas on what chemical may aid cleaning?.

Brake cleaner's what I've used on such components in the past, done outside well away from the house and wearing a pair of marigolds as the gunk will get under your nails and won't come out easily. I think some places sell EGR cleaning sprays...but maybe the same thing just double the price?

Naturally you can forget about the gloves if you're going for a manicure straight afterwards Gup!? :biglaugh:

[Scott K]

What about oven cleaner? It's supposed to be designed to removed baked on carbon deposits. Might be worth a shot if you can get some good quality (industrial strength) stuff.

[gupsterg]

SO fellow members :) ...

Today I was scrapping away at the carbon in the top section of the manifold, I got to a point where the majority of it had been removed but there was the last layer left. I carried on scraping and sprayed intake with some WD40, the drier layer of carbon instantly soaked up oil and become this bubblegum like consistency glob.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRTNbxiTodY

Above video and below is a secondhand top manifold I bought to cleanup at leisure :) ...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/2nd%20hand%20top%20intake%20cleaning/1_zpsfd31b1dc.jpg

As cleaning progresses can start to see the seems on intake ...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/2nd%20hand%20top%20intake%20cleaning/2_zps6856114e.jpg

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/2nd%20hand%20top%20intake%20cleaning/3_zps84b477a0.jpg

The aftermath of the cleaning area ...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/2nd%20hand%20top%20intake%20cleaning/4_zps9fa21770.jpg

After a rinse off with water ...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/2nd%20hand%20top%20intake%20cleaning/5_zps689e303e.jpg

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/2nd%20hand%20top%20intake%20cleaning/DSCF5968_zps62fac4ee.jpg

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/2nd%20hand%20top%20intake%20cleaning/DSCF5971_zps5bb357cf.jpg

Here is a zoom shot of an area which was left after using screwdriver/coat hanger wire to clean intake ...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/2nd%20hand%20top%20intake%20cleaning/DSCF5972_zpsb7f85811.jpg

Above was then taken care of by using metal scourer attached to wooden pole ... note on the left of pic there is a divider, which I've marked on below photo as well ...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/2nd%20hand%20top%20intake%20cleaning/DSCF5962_zps914e3a57.jpg

This smaller two chambers were more difficult to clean, I used a metal scourer attached to a electrical wiring rod by some disc's cut from topup cards (will upload more photos later) ...

Soon hope to do lower manifolds and nail the EGR woes I have :) ...

[gupsterg]

What about oven cleaner?

Good call mate :fing02: ... I used some Big D and it was good IMO :) , was about £3 for a 6 pack of them :D ...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/Try%202/BigD_zps72282c77.jpg

In post 64 the last photo where the red line is a divide occurs, the length/tightness of curves meant certain hand tools could not reach/clean effectively thus Big D's foaming action helped dissolve/soften these deposits so a scourer attached to a bendy electrical wiring rod could!

Also the shine it created on the metal throttle body adapter where EGR gas ports is, was amazing :cool: ...
It was so much quicker and brighter finish than cloth doused in diesel I used last time ...

Before ...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/DSCF5948_zps95e1dcd8.jpg

After ...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/DSCF5984_zps3f62839b.jpg

Only got to now run a cloth through the EGR ports you see in above photo :) ... again this is a 2nd hand TBA which I'm cleaning in advance, my original one is still fitted to car ...

[2fquick]

Wow sparkly clean :notworthy: I didn't have that much time/patience.

Are you offering a clean & exchange service? :naughty:

[MarkTM]

Gup, can you give some sort of timescale to dismantling/cleaning/reassembly please?

Something I might attempt if I knew I had the time.

[gupsterg]

Wow sparkly clean :notworthy: I didn't have that much time/patience.

Thanks :fing02:, the 2nd hand top intake & throttle body was £30 inc P&P from DE, most UK scrapper's don't seem to reply to my requests, IMO well worth the £££ to be able to leisurely clean and enjoy a beer or two whilst doing it :D ...


Are you offering a clean & exchange service? :naughty:

:p LOL! ... I've thought once I install new/used(cleaned) intake & EGR parts I'll inspect them on next yearly service to see what state they are as I'm really perplexed why mine are so coked up ...

Gup, can you give some sort of timescale to dismantling/cleaning/reassembly please?

Dismantling approx. 10-15 mins

Due to location of lower bolt on throttle body adapter I had to remove top intake manifold and it together. Throttle unit will also come out with it if not undone, remember to unplug elec.harness on lower side of it. Service guide does not highlight removing the fuel pipes to high pressure pump and interconnecting one for fuel rail 1 & 2, I had to on mine. This could be due to mine have earlier design of common rail pump/rail but :dunno: .

Cleaning

The TBA this time took all of 30-45 mins IIRC, first scrape main chamber & EGR chamber with screwdriver. The EGR section has this dry sooty deposit, it's best to scrape that without any cleaning agent at first. Next used coat hanger wire to clean the EGR ports in TBA, then like in post 5 use cable tie/cloth with oven cleaner to clean further. This time I just hoovered with PVC hose inserted into crevice tool (I have old VAX for DIY tasks) didn't use air compressor this time. Finally fill main chamber with oven cleaner and use scourer for :cool: finish!

The top intake manifold took 2-3 hrs IIRC, I feel I could halve that time now after devising hand tools/method to use. First I scraped with screwdriver, the seems I used coat hanger wire with a 5mm 90 degree bend at front. Then I sprayed with WD40 to soften up harder final layer, repeated scraping. Then washed with hot water, sprayed with oven cleaner then used scourer to achieve final finish.

Green + Orange boxed area scourer by hand. Blue boxed area scourer was used by not fixing to wooden pole but sandwiching scourer between intake and pole to move it/apply pressure. Red boxed area scourer attached to flexible electrical wiring rod, smaller scourer for section right of red rectangle and larger to left, the scourer needs to be sized to fit snugly in sections to achieve abrasive action. I used metal ball shaped scourers.

Will add photos of tools used at some point :) ...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/2nd%20hand%20top%20intake%20cleaning/DSCF59622_zpsebde2e6e.jpg

[Columbusracing]

hey gup good efforts on the cleaning :)Don't know if you've seen this but some of the UK Terraclean dealers are just receiving this latest bit of tech:
TerraClean (http://www.terraclean.net/product.php?id=57)
I think there are only 7 dealers in the country who have it and most of them in the northwest which is no use to you but might help others.

The system was developed with Mercedes in Canada after the new ML running into huge egr deposit problems because of the control requirements for the new euro 6 emissions criteria.
They had had vehicles coming to a complete stop due to inlets being completely blocked in 8000 km just like some of the london taxi's. The idea of the new tool is to as the description i linked says reduce the need for lots of stripping down and apparently gives pretty amazing results. I was chatting with a dealer who had seen the raw product clean an inlet with just dipping!!! I've seen stuff on the internet of a uk dealer cleaning the entire system on a troublesome avensis. I think the method goes egr cleaner to egr valve and then inlet, can and will even clean stuck turbo veins.

Hopefully more of the dealers will be getting it soon and some prices might start coming out of the wood work.
Could end up saving people not as hands on as yourself sort similar problems.

I finished rambling top job on the cleaning and the write up

[gupsterg]

Hi ya mate :D ...

Firstly I must thank you for offering help/space when I was doing my injectors :fing02: luckily weather sorted itself and all went well :) , due to time issues never been able to swing by and see you but hope to see you in person at sometime and have a chin wag :D ...


hey gup good efforts on the cleaning :)Don't know if you've seen this but some of the UK Terraclean dealers are just receiving this latest bit of tech:
TerraClean (http://www.terraclean.net/product.php?id=57)

Thank you for viewing & commenting :) , cheers for that link :fing02: , there is a Terraclean thread on VWAFbLink:- Terraclean anyone?? (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?135413-Terraclean-anyone) and someone was stating new developments, there is a dealer of terraclean local to me/you. An acquaintance of mine is friends with owner of that outlet, perhaps I'll have to swing by and pick his brains :) ...

[Columbusracing]

i've left a little something in that thread will be back in to check how it went down tomorrow lol cheers gup hope to see you soon fella :)

[Scott K]

Great job and good idea doing it on a spare part. To be honest, I'm a bit afraid to check mine!!

[gupsterg]

Yesterday I was searching around for swirl manifolds, whilst doing google images searches I got hits to other forums ...

This guy suffered the same EGR inlet blockage as I did on the throttle body adapter Link:- ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/138/20120204144701.jpg/)

Here is thread of that person cleaning his top intake section Link:- Tuto nettoyage admission air / EGR - A6 C6 / A6L C6 / allroad C6 - Forums Audi-Passion / La Communauté des Quatre Anneaux (http://forums.audipassion.com/topic/132076-tuto-nettoyage-admission-air-egr/)

Here is his thread on creating a EGR flow reducing plate Link:- test modif EGR A6 V6 - A6 C6 / A6L C6 / allroad C6 - Forums Audi-Passion / La Communauté des Quatre Anneaux (http://forums.audipassion.com/topic/132581-test-modif-egr-a6-v6/)

As far as I'm understanding the poster is not getting a MIL from doing this or had any ECU mod done ...

Besides the French the Spanish are also at it Link:- Brico desmontaje EGR y admision - Audi A6 / Allroad C6 (2005 - 2011) - Audisport Iberica (http://www.audisport-iberica.com/foro/topic/271768-brico-desmontaje-egr-y-admision/)

Images in post 5 where similar to my manifolds but post 60 are very close to same level of coking Link:- Brico desmontaje EGR y admision - Página 4 - Audi A6 / Allroad C6 (2005 - 2011) - Audisport Iberica (http://www.audisport-iberica.com/foro/topic/271768-brico-desmontaje-egr-y-admision/?p=3565252)

I was quite amused when I found someone comparing their EGR cooling flap unit to my video on youtube Link:- Brico desmontaje EGR y admision - Página 5 - Audi A6 / Allroad C6 (2005 - 2011) - Audisport Iberica
(http://www.audisport-iberica.com/foro/topic/271768-brico-desmontaje-egr-y-admision/?p=3949955)
Besides other stuff in these threads post 27 gave me hope that I maybe able to get at EGR valve without removing lower manifolds/complete EGR unit Link:- Brico desmontaje EGR y admision - Página 2 - Audi A6 / Allroad C6 (2005 - 2011) - Audisport Iberica (http://www.audisport-iberica.com/foro/topic/271768-brico-desmontaje-egr-y-admision/?p=3391655)

I have decided not to do EGR delete just yet, I will make a blanking plate to insert at EGR inlet on throttle body so can connect MAF up to get through MOT.

I'd luv to get a remap with EGR delete but really want my car running well at stock first so this will buy me more time to i) source lower manifolds ii) clean EGR system fully

[gupsterg]

Recently started to tackle the 2nd hand EGR cooler I bought of ebay ...

First blasted it with air compressor set to 8 bar, soot did fly out in puff's ...

Next used foaming oven cleaner, I would leave it to soak for x period before draining and repeating process ...

The channels are not in a U shape in the cooler but after the weld/blue line an empty expanse ...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Throttle_EGR_Intake/fc36f874-ff92-491e-b851-86cb3770671a_zps89af8441.jpg


http://youtu.be/3UADuyz8E6g

In above video you will note how water rise from all channels rather than one ...

Water look clean in that video from day 1 of cleaning but even on 2nd day when using a straw to fill cooler with oven cleaner soot/carbon is coming out ...

Today is the 3rd day where I am repeatedly soaking the cooler with oven cleaner then draining and refilling ...

[gupsterg]

Howdy fellow members!
Well just as a quick update a mate from Europe ( a fellow VWAF member :beerchug:) sent me a great little xmas pressie! some new butterflies and bearings for the the swirl manifolds. SO this means when I do remove swirl manifolds and clean them I don't need to worry about wear on them and can replace them as well as the link arms to the motors.

Thankyou SRT88! You the man my friend! Forgive me for not giving you time as I really have been very busy with offline life.

And soon VWAF'ers there will be coming the full media update on how to clean swirl manifolds/swap out butterflies & bearings/links arms! gupsterg style!

[Mersas32]

Hi guys.,
i am new to this forum...
my car is 3.0 tdi quattro 2005.
do not want to start new tread just but i have the problem!!!
i have followed this all procedure, by the way the man created this post is unbelievable!! So much time to detail and efford !!
so.
disconected fuel rails. 2 rails 4 nutts. Isolated all ends with cling tape.
cleaned everything possible in manifolds was not to bad. Assembled everything and tryed to star the car. Battery was week so got additional supply. started 3 go each go around 2 sec turning. Not to bad.
boom!!! Glow plug light blinking!! Test drive no power. Back home connected it showed p0088 high pressure.
deleted went for a spin ok. Next morning installed charged battery left for work boom light again. Same p0088.
came back home deleted ok. Next day all day ok. Next day morning battery flat. Started with help left house. Drove doing various jobs maybe 6 start stops. Noticed that battery level on mmi stay at around 10 percent- minimum. Noticed after each start it was harder to start even though it produces 13.90 v. Last 6th start after 2 hours day jobs .boom both lights on glow plug and the engine check, back home scanned - p0088 and p3344 dtc status ; short to another valve. Now cant get them cleared.

History. Car bought just before the cleaning 2 days. Was all good. No lights. Cleaned it just because wanted to be sure flaps good order. By the way they are and motors are no loose arms all very tight.

battery : looks new but says on the label charge 6 and 13 marked so i guess its past its warranty 3 year, it could not be that recharge would indicate manufacturing date. Its unipart battery 88ah 720 amps. So : it may be that it is not coded to the car its to week its to old its no good for this car thats why i have these faults. But- when bought even it was week no faults so i do not know if battery to fault. But its drawing 0,68 amps with alarm on and gets battery down every morning. Never got a chance to investigate why alarmed its drawing currect -OT.:)

cables leads: after reassembly and fault appearance checked everything 5 times now. Lubricated every connector with wd40, no cables loose no bent, no broken ,disconected all sensors while car in operation and engine work changes significantly so i assume they are doing their work. I mean all sensors fuel related.

turbo actuator: i can see its moving and when disconected everything vnt moves freely.

Fuel filter new. But noticed that the fuel gauge was working sporadically, after inserted charged battery it still works fine now, i thought need to take pump out to check strainer regarding p0088 but do not know if this could be...

ANY ideas from all welcome and many thanks in advance.
p.s. Getting vcds tomorrow will post news on that before fault were read with launch diagun.

[gupsterg]

Hi peeps :) ,

Above post has been taken to new thread Link:- Audi 3.0 tdi Quattro codes p0088 and p3348 after disconnecting fuel rails!!! (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?153946-Audi-3-0-tdi-Quattro-codes-p0088-and-p3348-after-disconnecting-fuel-rails)!!!

Sorry still busy with stuff so not been able to do clean/refurb of manifolds/intake.

But here is an unboxing of butterfly repair kit


http://youtu.be/lCTZE3ZBXV0

Here is video of what occurs to internals of manifold Link:- Audi A5 3.0tdi intake manifold problem - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hL4VwMKO0Pg)

Viewers may also find this thread handy to view Link:- Audi V6 TDi 2.7 & 3.0 Inlet Manifold, Swirl Flap Repair Kit. (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?140390-Audi-V6-TDi-2-7-amp-3-0-Inlet-Manifold-Swirl-Flap-Repair-Kit)

For any info post or PM peeps :) .

All the best
Gup

[Ryan_Pestell]

did this ever get finished?

just about to undertake the task myself.

either a full delete or just blanking plates, i would prefer a complete delete with altering the water pipe work from the EGR and leaving the EGR soleniods connected to teh wiring and also to the vacuum system so the ECU thinks there is a still an active EGR system connected.

[gupsterg]

Hi,

I have not yet completed project as another project has taken over my life!

You may find this thread/post handy, Link:- My A6 3.0TDi Avant bit of a rebuild and repair thread. (http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a6-s6-allroad-forum-c6-chassis/211351-my-a6-3-0tdi-avant-bit-rebuild-repair-thread.html#post2118561)

I wish you the best of luck with this endeavour as IMO these engines are so time consuming and a mare to work on.

ATB
G