Hi all newbie to the forum,have problem with audi coupe 2.0

[Cheshirepaul]

Hi all
Ive recently fitted new plugs to my audi coupe and its run quite nicely.The day after i received a new rotor arm and dist cap and fitted them,but now the car wont start and doesnt seem to be firing at all.
I am 100% i got the firing order correct for the plug leads.I turned the cam to the 0 mark and the rotor points the line on the distributor top edge which i belive is now TDC.I followed the leads in clockwise order 1-3-4-2 and still no spark.

Can anyone help with this?
Thanks in advance
Paul

[Cheshirepaul]

I added new plug leads today as a means of elimination.
Would much appreciate any help as im a little miffed at the problem

[fourringsrus]

Are you happy that your king lead is fitted properly and that all parts are fitted as they were before you first touched the car

[scotty33]

The wires to the hall sender on the distributor become brittle/fragile with age, if the connector got disturbed which is fairly likely this may be the cause of your no start? This would show up on a fault code read, or if you prefer, I believe you could test it's function with a LED, google hall sender test. good luck

[mumutley]

Hi
Remove all new plugs and check they are all sparking in there own plug lead. If no spark try an old plug and lead.
Is it the right rotar arm and dissy cap? do they match the originals?
Put cylinder number one to TDC now check were there rotar arm is pointing to, then place dissy cap on to distributor locate which point on the cap the rotar arm is pointing towards. Attach lead for cylinder 1 and to plug in cylinder 1, then insert remaining plug leads in to dissy cap and to the appropriate plug (Sorry I can not remember which way dissy turns, to check this with dissy cap removed and rotar arm on spin engine over and watch which way it spins, then attach leads going from 1 to 3 to 4 to 2)

I hope this helps

[Cheshirepaul]

Thanks for your help

The car has been collected from the garage today and left me £375 lighter.
Turns out the distributor hall sender had become faulty so i had it replaced with a new unit.I also had a fulls service oils etc plus cambelt.
Trouble is the garage hadnt got a diagnostic reader for the car with it being so old (1995) and it loses power occasionally,basically the garage has said that when the idle control connector is removed it ran better but would run rich so i was advised not to drive it like this for too long.Ive always owned older cars as i like them more,but i have no idea how to use code readers etc so i would like to buy one and start my own diagnostics at home.
Can anyone shed any light onto which one to choose as theyre are some VW ones on ebay for around £20.
Thanks
Paul

[Cheshirepaul]

U281 VW Audi Skoda Seat VAG CAN BUS Fault Code Reader Scanner diagnostic tool UK | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/U281-VW-Audi-Skoda-Seat-VAG-CAN-BUS-Fault-Code-Reader-Scanner-diagnostic-tool-UK-/221040985066?pt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item337711c3ea)

Would this be ok for me as a basic fault finder?

[scotty33]

If it is compatible, you will also need an adaptor lead. That reader uses a 16 pin obd 2 connector. Our cars use 2x2 pin plugs, sometimes called obd1, but there are many other types of obd1!
For the price of your proposed scanner you could get a VCDS (vagcom) lead. You would still need the adaptor for this too.
I think the basic VCDS lite, would give you access to 'measuring blocks' this allows you to view things like the coolant temp signal to the ECU. This may be where your problem lies, this is a fault that may not show up on a code read.
It is also possible to blink out the fault codes with a 1.2watt dash bulb or l.e.d. and a few bits of wire: Diagnostic Fault Codes (http://20v.org/fault.htm)

The connectors are drivers footwell for older cars >91 and in the fusebox for newer 92> cars.

If your coupe is 92> it is probably the ABK engine, as you don't have any fault codes yet, I would suspect 3 common problems:

1 coolant temp sender, the blue one on side of the head. i believe it should give similar values to the 2.8 part here: 12v Pages - Maintenance (http://www.12v.org/maintenance/repairs/ect.php)

The wiring test may be similar, but not an easy task and the ECU pin may be a different one.

2 check the ECU power relay, remove the dash panel above the drivers shins area. Look for Relay with white '30' on top, pull out relay, prise the cover off check the circuit board inside, they suffer from poor soldering. If bad resolder or renew.

3 test lambda sensor, follow the wire up from the cat to the connectors. The black wire is the signal wire: Just Lambda, Suppliers of Bosch and NTK lambda sensors including zirconia and titania sensors by post (http://www.lambdasensor.com/main/mtesting.htm) you will need to click on 'testing sensors'

They do not say so, but the signal wire remains connected to the car's loom, you need to put the meter probe into the connector to make contact. The test is done with a warmed up engine.

A misleading signal from the lambda or temp sensor can cause rich mix but would not necessarily trigger a code. The ECU relay issue also does not trigger a code, people spend hundreds eliminating everything else before finding it.

Another resource that may be of use:

ElsaWeb - VAG Audi Å*koda Seat Volkswagen Online Repair Manuals (http://elsaweb.spaghetticoder.org/)

[Cheshirepaul]

Thanks scotty
Really appreciate your help mate,cant thank you enough.
Leave me a message if you ever pass through cheshire and i'll get us both a glass of turps.
Cheers again mate,its good having something to go off and start diagnosis.

[Eshrules]

welcome to vwaf

[scotty33]

Your welcome Paul.

There is one more thing, if no luck with the others. The mass Airflow sensor (I think it is called?) the flap device within the airbox lid. This has an electrical circuit which as I understand it consists of a resistor over which an arm 'wipes' giving a mass airflow signal. The arm wipes in the same place repeatedly and causes wear. As I understand it, it is possible to reposition parts so that a 'new' surface is set up under the arm. I guess you may need to get the mixture checked etc if you do this mod. Better to get a new unit but not sure you can and probably quite £££?

[Cheshirepaul]

Cheers scotty,i'll check that mate

Ive been for a drive this evening and it started fine and ran good until warm.It then began to judder and feel rough when
accelerating but seemed smooth when slowing for traffic signals.I pulled into a lay-by and left the engine running and disconnected
what i beleive is the idle control valve connector and the engine immediately drops tickover to a lovely low note and the engine runs
beautifully,its almost like a new car! no judder or faults whatsoever!
It cant be a big issue surely! i will be delighted to get this sorted as ive been led to beleive that although it runs fantastic when idle valve is disconnected it will actually be running rich and will soot up the system and i'd rather it didnt for the money ive recently spent on her.
Cant believe how well it drove! superb handler and although its a brain melter at times,its well worth the odd headache!
Cheers again for your time and help scotty,you rock mate!

[scotty33]

At least you're happy with it:Blush:. For what it's worth, the idle control valve only influences idle speed when the revs drop to approx 1200rpm AND the throttle is closed. It can't be the cause of juddering/roughness when accelerating. My money is on the relay 30. It is not a big deal, the parcel shelf/trim is held up with 4-5 8mm head bolts - one is recessed (by the bonnet release), that's it find and unplug the relay, the cover pops off quite easily, check it out. If faulty resolder or buy a new one they are approx £14 from what I hear.

see this thread, does anything seem familiar?: Audi 80 2.0L ABK engine juddering/misfire - Page 5 (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?2946-Audi-80-2-0L-ABK-engine-juddering-misfire/page5&highlight=relay)

[Cheshirepaul]

Hi scotty

Yes mate,ive got it in my hand armed with soldering iron,pot of flux and some thin solder to get to all the small pin solders.
Mine actually looks fine,but im going to run a blob on each connection and hopefully i will see some results.

Ok Just been to the car and popped the relay back in and started the car,i wont see results yet as the symptoms seem to happen suddenly when off choke.Was about to go for a warm up but the wife shouted me in for some tea,she's been baking again so i have put on the usual delighted face and told her i cant wait! :(

Cheers again scotty,i'll post back a bit later mate.

[Cheshirepaul]

19114

Gave the relay a slight warm blob on each weld,hope it shows a difference.

[scotty33]

I hope you fixed it. If not here's some bumph I posted before about the lambda sensor (which is where I would look next)

You can test a lambda probe yourself, or have a garage do it.

locate the probe itself, usually mounted on the front of the catalyst or the exhaust manifold (http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_nkw=exhaust+manifold). You will need a multimeter set to volts/millivolts or a voltmeter.

The engine needs to be warmed up to temperature for the test to work

The lambda sensor wiring plug needs to remain connected to the car's wiring harness.

follow the wires from the lambda sensor back to the wiring connector plug. There are usually 3 wires, 2 are usually white (these are the heater circuit) and the other wire (maybe black?) is the signal wire.

At the connector plug, peel back the rubber gaiter (waterseal) and identify the signal wire.

Push the positive multimeter lead/probe into the back of the signal wire connector, the negative meter lead/probe needs to go to a good earth.

You should see the signal 'oscillating' between approx 0.2 volts rising to approx 0.9 volts. It should do this once per second. If it is slower than this, the lambda probe is still working but not efficiently.

If the reading is steady, the probe is bad. If the reading is not in this range, there may be a short from the heater circuit wires, which would result in seriously bad running. As mentioned above, the heater circuit needs to be working properly, so check the fuse is ok for the lambda probe.


If you are interested, stoichiometric fuelling (air fuel ratio of 14.7:1 which gives the most complete combustion) usually equates to 0.5 volts. The ECU is not able to maintain the mixture at exactly this mix. Instead it has to monitor when the mixture is going weak (0.2v) then add more fuel until it goes rich (0.9v) The average ends up at 0.5v.
The lambda probe is not used by the ECU to control mixture, until the coolant temp sender for the ECU shows that the engine is up to temperature. The lambda signal is not used at wide open throttle. If your car responds well to applying full throttle you may have a lambda issue.
Another rare lambda issue, is that if the insulation becomes damaged, the signal wire can short to the other wires which are for the sensor's built in heater circuit. I think there is 3-5 volts on that supply so the ECU tries to lean off what it 'sees' as a very rich mixture. There is also a fuse for the heater circuit, which needs to be intact

I think it would be possible for a lambda probe to be faulty but not show up on a fault code read. I think the bad smell would be due to poor running, whether this be due to over fuelling or an electrical misfire, I'm not sure. But you should be able to rule out the lambda as above!

[Cheshirepaul]

Scotty thats a great post on the lambda and im definately testing it at work next week.

Ive been out for a drive tonight with the relay fitted and i experienced only a slight judder when warm,but it still occasionally refused to pull from 1st/2nd gears or out of corners or from traffic lights.It didnt happen everytime,but i know its not right so will be testing the lambda and see if this is the culprit.
Scotty,how much am i looking at? i would like a new one as i dont mess around with scrapyard junk if the cost isnt too staggering.
Again,top post on the sensor,i never understood how the lambda worked before so ive learned alot from that mate,just printed that so i can take it work tommorow.

[scotty33]

I think they are £60-80? You can get universal ones cheaper, you need to splice the wires so that your old connector is re-used. I would also look out for new old stock, the 80-coupe is getting obsolete these days..

[scotty33]

I don't know if you saw this thread from the 80 forum? it covers the MAF sensor issue:

Question Audi 80 2.0E ABK Bad fuel consumption, Ignition Failure, smell of fuel: (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?138409-Audi-80-2-0E-ABK-Bad-fuel-consumption-Ignition-Failure-smell-of-fuel&p=780623#post780623)