Fuel Pump Relay / Electrical Problem

[diyjack76]

So here goes, my 1998 1.6 8v AKL Golf keeps blowing fuel pump relay No.167.

Just prior to this problem I had changed a faulty Thermostat and the radiator, but when taking the vehicle for a test run it wouldn’t start so called the AA.
After a series of tests the AA guy diagnosed the problem as a relay stuck closed and advised I replaced it as it would fail again which it did.

Today I received a replacement fuel pump relay, inserted it, and the car started first time. I ran the engine for a few minutes then switched it off .
One hour later I returned to the to take the car for a drive as it had been sat in the garage for 2 weeks but on turning the ignition I couldn’t hear the fuel pump prime and the engine wouldn’t start

Second attempt I lost all electrical power (no dash lights – nothing) but then the electrical power returned so went for a third attempt but again the car wouldn’t start.

I assume that the replacement relay is now toasted and have ordered another one but need to troubleshoot this problem before blowing another relay.
Any ideas or thoughts on a solution to this would be much appreciated!

Many thanks all

[diyjack76]

Update

Ok one thing I forgot to mention in my original post was that when first reconnectingthe battery I accidentally left the keys in position II in the ignition (I didthis to swing the front wheels when I reattached the front bumper to the wheelarch lining).

I have since discovered that both front side lights have blown but none of thefuses. I've checked Earths/ Grounds No. 1,2 & 3 (Haynes wiring diagrames 2&3) and these seem fine.

I still cannot hear the fuel pump prime upon starting the car despite having replaced the fuel pump relay and still no live feed to the fuel pump, so I think (based on the AA guys findings) is that whatever is happening it's causing the relay to stick in the closed position.

One observation after reconnecting the battery and attempting to start the car,I can hear the front passenger door lock activate and the small red led security light on the driver’sdoor starts flashing/pulsating.
Once again any input/ideas on this one appreciated

[belfastmark]

Strange. On my MK4 1.6 16v AZD, the fuel pump relay has 409 written on it. Accessable above the foot pedals.
A faulty one comes back as locked when on diagnostics.

[diyjack76]

Hi, the original is def No.167. I did originally purchase 409 but later found it didn't fit. My vw is a strange one in that respect as have been told its year is on the cusp of a chassis change by one motorfactor. Nothing is coming back on the diagnostic. Thanks for the reply.

[zollaf]

bulbs blowing, relays failing ? check the voltage across the battery when she's running next to rule out an over charging alternator. look for no more than 13.8-14.2 volts.

[diyjack76]

Update 6 Nov

My Golf is now back on the road but not entirely sure for how long. The starting issue is a baffling one. The voltage output was fine (around 14.2) but -ve battery terminal was quite loose so this was replaced with a new one and hey presto the fuel pump started to prime on turning the key.

Took the vw for a test drive and car occasionally hesitated on acceleration which turned out to be a shorting in the coil pack therefore disconnected battery when replacing coil pack but once again on reconnecting the battery, the fuel pump failed to prime.

I eventually resorted to taking a length of wire and connected one end to the positive battery terminal and the other to the fuel pump fuse and could hear the fuel pump working. Then on turning the key the car started.

I don't know if this action reset the fuel pump relay switch but since doing this the car has started (so far) first time on eight successive journeys. I'll have to see how she goes!

[diyjack76]

Update 11 Nov.

The frustration continues...

Two days after doing my regular commute to work I noticed a strong smell of fumes in the cabin, I took the car to Kwik fit to check the exhaust as was still under guarantee and on raising the casr noticed the fuel tank was wet with fuel. Turns out that the AA guy must have accidentaklly fractured the connection to the return fuel hose as the fuel pump was submerged in petrol and was pouring down the outside of the fuel tank.

Anyhow on Saturdat I bought and fitted a new fuel pump and car started first time and I drove it back down the M3 towards London. All I did today was wash the car and then when I went to start again this evening the fuel pump would not prime and engine failed to start. The only way to start the car is to run a wire from the battery to the fuel pump fuse but this time the engine failed to start on subsequent attempts with the ignition.

I ran a diagnostic and got the following:

VCDS-Lite Version: Release 1.0
Sunday, 11 November 2012, 19:50:04:0


Chassis Type: 1J - VW Golf/Bora IV
Scan: 01,02,03,08,15,16,17,19,22,29,35,36,37,39,46,47,55 ,56,57,75,76

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels:
Controller:
Note: Can't Synch Baud Rate

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 1J0-907-37x-ABS.LBL
Controller: 1J0 907 379 G
Component: ABS 20 IE CAN 0001
Coding: 03504
Shop #: WSC 00028
No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 1J0-909-60x-VW3.LBL
Controller: 1J0 909 609
Component: A AIRBAG VW3 SG 0002
Coding: 00065
Shop #: WSC 00028
No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 1J0-919-xxx-17.LBL
Controller: 1J0 919 930 B
Component: A4-KOMBIINSTR. VDO V61
Coding: 00443
Shop #: WSC 00028
IMMO-IDENTNR: VWZ7Z0W0743548
1 Fault Found:
00771 - Fuel Level Sensor (G)
30-10 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 1J0-959-799.LBL
Controller: 1J0 959 799 J
Component: 16 Zentral-SG Komf.0002
Coding: 04096
Shop #: WSC 00028
13 Faults Found:
00953 - Interior Light Time limit
25-10 - Unknown Switch Condition - Intermittent
01330 - Central Control Module for Central Convenience (J393)
53-10 - Supply Voltage Too Low - Intermittent
00955 - Key 1
09-10 - Adaptation Limit Surpassed - Intermittent
01331 - Door Control Module; Driver Side (J386)
53-10 - Supply Voltage Too Low - Intermittent
00928 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Front Driver Side (F220)
27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
00943 - Heated Exterior Mirror; Driver Side (Z4)
35-00 - -
01332 - Door Control Module; Passenger Side (J387)
53-10 - Supply Voltage Too Low - Intermittent
00929 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Front Passenger Side (F221)
27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
00944 - Heated Exterior Mirror; Passenger Side (Z5)
35-00 - -
01333 - Door Control Module; Rear Left (J388)
53-10 - Supply Voltage Too Low - Intermittent
00930 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Rear Left (F222)
27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
01334 - Door Control Module; Rear Right (J398)
53-10 - Supply Voltage Too Low - Intermittent
00931 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Rear Right (F223)
27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

End


Any other thoughts and suggestions on this would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

[belfastmark]

I must state that I am no expert on this, but when I read your post I am thinking CCM and fuel pump sender unit.
Did the fella that carried out the diagnostics interpret the findings for you ?

Marko.

[diyjack76]

Hi Marko,

Thanks for the reply. My Golf is now on the road again.

On reflection some of these codes would have been related to when I changed the fuel pump e.g. dpressurising the fuel sysem with the sender unit discconected, so should have omitted that code 00771 etc.

I think the rule is to keep it simple. Although not entirely sure if the fix is permanent, replacing the loose negative battery terminal, and cleaning the 50 amp fuse ( flat strip of metal) which sits on the panel on top of the battery appeares to have done the trick.

Hope this helps if you're experiencing similar issues.