Audi A6 (C6) Avant power amp and speaker upgrade [Archive] - VW Audi Forum - The #1 Volkswagen (VW) Forum Dedicated to the whole Volkswagen (VW) Group

Andrew Turner

01-09-2012, 01:26 AM

Hi guys.

I'm a bit of an audio geek and would like to upgrade the system in my A6 with MMI Basic, and am wondering what the best way to go about it is. What does the bose system consist of and is it possible to retro fit into my car? How good is the Bose system, and is there any other options anyone could recommend? I want to keep it all factory looking, so need speakers that will fit the existing enclosures, and i do not have the room for a huge sub box to replace the factory sub, as the back is mostly full of bikes.

Also, short of upgrading to MMI High (which i am considering in the future), What is the cheapest way of getting an auxiliary input with USB, and getting the Bluetooth working and controllable from the MMI?

Cheers,

Andy.

Brycie

01-09-2012, 02:26 AM

In my boy racer days I used to be obsessed with bass that you could hear a mile off. Now that I've mellowed a little, I have to say that although you won't hear the BOSE system from a mile off, it does produce a nice full, rich sound in terns of bass and clarity. I'm happy with it, but I'm sure I've seen some negative comments about it - do a search for BOSE & you should get some other opinions.

If you are lucky you may be able to find someone nearby with BOSE who would let you bring a couple of CDs and try them out in their car. Hint hint, nudge nudge Kent based fellow forum members!

On the retrofit and other questions though, I'm afraid I can't help but hopefully someone who can help will be along soon. The weekend's always a little quiet, so try bumping this message back up to the top on Monday early evening.

Guest 2

01-09-2012, 09:08 AM

Iirc the Basic system doesn't have an amp at all.

BOSE is hard to fit - amps wiring microphones subwoofers and different speakers.

The standard Basic+ and High has sufficient speakers and provide a good sound even up loud but it's no where near as good as BOSE.

That's if BOSE is even compatible with Basic.

Andrew Turner

01-09-2012, 10:02 AM

Bah! Well if that is the case Chris, it looks like i'll have to go with the speaker level amp route, but i know nothing about those as always used line level in the past. Will have to do some research. I will start by upgrading the speakers first anyway, so could do that and see what i think. Any recommendations anyone? as there are 3 speakers in each door, i'm guessing it@s a propper 3 way system? I assume you have to remove the door cards to get at the speakers? I've had a go at pulling one of the grills off but they seem pretty well fixed in.

One thing i would definitely like to change is the sub and amp, as the standard one has a very narrow frequency range and sounds very boomy, i bet it doesn't go down lower than 80hz. Is it possible to fit the bose sub without messing with the wiring? What would be cool is if i can utilize my old Vibe 10" sub which has a 400 watt powered amp, but i'm guessing it's too big for the available space? I haven't even found the sub yet, anyone know where it it?

mjerome

07-09-2012, 03:12 PM

Hi Andy,

I've actually just upgraded the system in my A6. I too wanted speakers to fit in the stock locations etc. I ended up replacing the fronts with Phoenix Gold and rears with Rockford Fosgate. A Rockford Fosgate 12" subwoofer has also been installed under the rear floor, in the spare wheel well. The spare wheel is still in there but the boot floor was replaced with a matching carpeted one as they've had to drill holes to allow the bass sounds through!

Two small "mini" Rockford Fosgate amps have been installed in the left hand side panel above the sat nav cd player / stock amp.

The system is completed hidden from view and still allows me to use the car as was intended (loading bikes into it too as it happens). The MMI interface has not been affected at all.

The sounds....well...what a difference!!. Fantastic is all I can say. The fronts / mids do not distort, even at max volume and there's never been a point where I've had to turn the volume down due to ear fatigue. To top it off the kick from the 12" sub is sublime. It really adds a punch to the music - alot more than the standard sub could ever handle.

I'll take some photos if people are interested.

Andrew Turner

27-09-2012, 01:23 AM

Hey Jerome. Only just seen this. Pictures would be awsome if That's OK. I don't even know how to get the door cards off yet, so any other info you can give me would be most appreciated. What size speakers fit and how deep? How are the amps connected, speaker or line level? Also I believe my subs are in the front doors, how would I wire the sub in. I love the idea of putting the sub in the wheel well. I assume it just sits in there so it's easily removable for when you get a flat? Can you still adjust your sub level via the MMI?

Brycie

27-09-2012, 01:43 AM

How about this one? My mate works for a company that's just fitted the Rockford Fosgate Subwoofer into the boot of an A6 spare wheel well.

http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/c68.0.403.403/p403x403/217963_318334538265850_1690650911_n.jpg

Here's the custom boot floor panel they fitted to protect it ('it' being the P2D212).

http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/c68.0.403.403/p403x403/263908_318335188265785_623719578_n.jpg

I'm just wondering if the one my mate did was actually on mjerome's car - what a wierd coincidence if it was!

bops6

27-09-2012, 07:39 AM

I`m also interested in this although I already have the Bose system, I`d be interested in upgrading the speakers and maybe the amp as well. In my earlier years I used to be very much into the ICE scene but that was more than 10 years ago and i`m now completely out of touch with it so don`t know what would be required.

mjerome

13-10-2012, 08:21 PM

A weird coincidence it is then as that is my car!! :D. Saves me taking some photos!

It's actually getting an upgrade in a few weeks using Jehnart door builds coupled with 8 Punch 6.5" midrange and 2 4" tweeters to replace the current Focal 3 way "upgraded" speakers. It's also having a MOST pre-amp fitted which will allow the original amp to be completely bypassed. Currently the original amp has to be used to supply line in from the speaker to the new amps which isn't ideal as it's not allowing the amps to do their jobs properly. It's being installed by Gavin at G7 Sounds in Newbury. He really knows his stuff and I can't recommend his services highly enough. I'm going to be there at the install so I can take some piccies while I'm there - unless Brycie takes them on my behalf first!

Andrew Turner

13-10-2012, 10:37 PM

That's a freaky coincidence Jerome! Your sub enclosure looks perfect and exactly what i would like to do to mine. Do you know how the shop built the enclosure? I'm thinking i might be able to do something similar made from fiberglass, i've had some experience working with it before. How is your sub connected to the system? I already have a 10" 400 watt Vibe powered sub but it has line level inputs, i am guessing it would have to be connected via speaker level inputs? I have recently discovered that my car has MMI Basic Plus, so i have a DSP behind the left rear boot panel and subwoofers in the front doors, are the subs powered from the DSP, or are there separate amps in both front doors?
Also, what size are the mids? I have a pair of 16cm Vibe 2 way speakers and 13cm Pioneer TSE1390's. The plan is to sort the sub and swap out the mid's first, then once the subs in the doors are of no further use fit some 3 way speakers, and then fit a new amp.
If you are gonna be there when your new install is done, any info on how it is currently hooked up and how they fit the new amp/s and some pics would be appreciated ;)

Oh and dose anyone know how to get the door cards off? I've done a search but couldn't find anything on the C6, and they don't appear to do a Haynes workshop manual for it either :(

A weird coincidence it is then as that is my car!! :D. Saves me taking some photos!

It's actually getting an upgrade in a few weeks using Jehnart door builds coupled with 8 Punch 6.5" midrange and 2 4" tweeters to replace the current Focal 3 way "upgraded" speakers. It's also having a MOST pre-amp fitted which will allow the original amp to be completely bypassed. Currently the original amp has to be used to supply line in from the speaker to the new amps which isn't ideal as it's not allowing the amps to do their jobs properly. It's being installed by Gavin at G7 Sounds in Newbury. He really knows his stuff and I can't recommend his services highly enough. I'm going to be there at the install so I can take some piccies while I'm there - unless Brycie takes them on my behalf first!

mjerome

13-10-2012, 11:54 PM

I'll try to explain how it all hangs together...

1 x 300w 1ch Rockford Fosgate Punch Amp running the 12" Sub
1 x 300w 4ch Rockford Fosgate Punch Amp running the rear components (2 speakers each side) and the front components (3 speakers each side).

The two amps have been mounted on a fabricated shelf that sits over the top of the original amp, hidden away in the side panel.

I understand that without using a device that can convert from a MOST fibreoptic signal to an RCA signal then any aftermarket amps have to take their LINE IN from speaker outs. This results in the Audi amp feeding amplified and noisy signal into the punch amps. It works but its not how you'd want to use it. Traditionally it used to be Head Unit > RCA > Amp > Speakers.

At the moment its Head Unit > Optic Fibre > Audi Amp > Speaker Out > Punch Amp > Speakers.

The other problem with this setup is the signal from the speaker outs of the Audi amp have been through an internal crossover to then go to the Punch amps to be crossed over again. This is why I'm going for a MOST pre-amp that will take the Audi amp out of the equation completely. I hope this makes sense and is technically accurate :D

Regarding the subwoofer. This is encased in a glass fibre, volume specific enclosure that is then attached to the underside of the false floor you can see. I remember the sub had to be changed from what was originally specced as the volume required for it wouldn't fit in the spare wheel cavity.

The rear speakers are 6.5" and 1".
The fronts are 6.5", 3" and 1"

To take the door cards off you have to prise the mid range speaker grill off (middle speaker) and the large aluminium/wood/carbon/black trim piece off the door.
I think there are three bolts - 1 next to the middle speaker, one behind the large aluminium trim (or what ever finish your car has), and 1 in the door pull (the thing you pull to shut the door). This one is semi hidden and you have to access it from below.

Then there are about 3 - 4 clips that need to be located around the bottom left / bottom / bottom right of the door card. I'm not sure where they are positioned exactly but you need a thin, flat headed tool to prise and unclip then without breaking the clips (I belive).

Its all changing in a few weeks (again) so I'll keep you updated and definately take some pictures before if all goes back in!

Andrew Turner

14-10-2012, 12:33 AM

Thanks for that. So you currently have a converter between the standard amp and the RF amps? if so what are they called, and also the MOST pre amp? Any chance of some pics of how its currently hooked up in the boot, and is the sub connection on the standard amp? Want to do it on the cheap using the current Sub at the moment till i get a new job and have more money to play with.
Looks like i'll have to make do with the standard speakers for now, the mid's are TINY.

mjerome

14-10-2012, 12:58 AM

My system does not currently have a converter. What I was saying was that without one, you have to use the speaker outs of the original amp. The MOST bus system in the car is similar to the older CAN-BUS system.

The MOST pre-amp that will be fitted is

MOST Digital Pre-Amp | mObridge (http://www.mobridge.us/products/most-digital-pre-amp)

As mentioned, the sub is connected to the 1ch RF amp. All the cars speakers, including sub, are powered by the RF amps. The Audi amp is only used to connect the Audi speaker outs to the LINE IN on the RF amps. Does that make sense? In effect, you are just inserting the RF amps into the speaker output of the Audi amp:

Stock install: Audi Amp > Speakers
Custom install: Audi Amp > RF Amp (via speaker out) > Speakers

I'll try to get some pictures tomorrow but its tightly packed and you can't really see much of the connections. It is very simple really, just difficult to explain. A picture would paint etc.......

bops6

14-10-2012, 07:11 AM

Do you know about the bose surround setup in a saloon. as all I really need is to increase the sub bass

Brycie

14-10-2012, 08:48 AM

Andrew Turner

14-10-2012, 04:35 PM

Meh, sorry i wasn't very clear there...what i meant is where are the standard subs plugged into? What i basically want to know is what do i need right now to install my Vibe powered sub with RCA input's? Sorry for being a bit thick on this, my only experience with ICE is stuff with RCA line level connections, i have no idea with all this MOST stuff.

Here is what i have in the boot Randoms Photo Album - Pinkbike (http://andyturner28.pinkbike.com/album/Randoms/)

My system does not currently have a converter. What I was saying was that without one, you have to use the speaker outs of the original amp. The MOST bus system in the car is similar to the older CAN-BUS system.

The MOST pre-amp that will be fitted is

MOST Digital Pre-Amp | mObridge (http://www.mobridge.us/products/most-digital-pre-amp)

As mentioned, the sub is connected to the 1ch RF amp. All the cars speakers, including sub, are powered by the RF amps. The Audi amp is only used to connect the Audi speaker outs to the LINE IN on the RF amps. Does that make sense? In effect, you are just inserting the RF amps into the speaker output of the Audi amp:

Stock install: Audi Amp > Speakers
Custom install: Audi Amp > RF Amp (via speaker out) > Speakers

I'll try to get some pictures tomorrow but its tightly packed and you can't really see much of the connections. It is very simple really, just difficult to explain. A picture would paint etc.......

mjerome

14-10-2012, 09:12 PM

Hi Andy.

If your Vibe amp can do speaker line in aswell then it would work. If your Vibe amp only has RCA inputs then I don't think you're going to be able to do what you want to do. The CAN-BUS and MOST bus systems all use optical connections but aftermarket amps (afaik) don't.

Your problem is the same problem I had in so much I couldn't use RCA either but the amp I bought could take speaker line in (and not RCA).

Fitting that MOST Digital pre-amp from my previous post would fix this so you could plug the optical cable that currently goes to the Audi amp directly into the MOST pre-amp. The MOST pre-amp then has RCA connections that you can plug into your Vibe amp. Simply put the MOST pre-amp acts as converter from optical to RCA and importantly doesn't interrupt the MOST (or CAN-BUS) signal that may be passing through onto some other box of tricks in your car.

The MOST digital pre-amps aren't cheap though, nearly £600 :zx11:, so depending on where your want to go with your install it might make more sense to buy a different amp.

I've added some piccies below of my current amps in situ. The top amp is for the front / rears. The bottom is for the subwoofer.

1824518244

mjerome

14-10-2012, 09:18 PM

... he is a sound guy...

Was the pun intended? :biglaugh:

I definately agree you - very nice chap and certainly knows his stuff.

Brycie

14-10-2012, 09:53 PM

:biglaugh: it actually wasn't intended. Well spotted.

Andrew Turner

14-10-2012, 10:14 PM

Ugh, why is nothing ever easy with me, looks like this isn't going to happen any time soon then :( really frustrating as i have two other amps sitting around as well as the sub which are currently useless. Do you have a link for any speaker level amps that will work? The sub can only take line in via the RCA's.

mjerome

15-10-2012, 02:41 PM

Try these. This is what I've got. If you check out the images you can see they have speaker inputs for the signal (as well out speaker out of course). I think they call it HIGH LEVEL INPUT.

1ch: PUNCH Amplifiers - PBR300X1 - Rockford FosgateÂ® (http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/product_details.aspx?itemid=120464)

4ch: PUNCH Amplifiers - PBR300X4 - Rockford FosgateÂ® (http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/product_details.aspx?itemid=120465)

I would also take some proffessional advice just in case I'm wrong with anything I've said. I'm only going on my understanding of these things! I hate for you to ditch some kit you already have if there is another way you could use them.

Andrew Turner

15-10-2012, 08:00 PM

Thanks mate. I found one yesterday that had a high level input too, so there are lots around. I assume going this route you have to cut into the speaker cables?

mjerome

16-10-2012, 09:21 AM

Thanks mate. I found one yesterday that had a high level input too, so there are lots around. I assume going this route you have to cut into the speaker cables?

Yeah - in effect you're inserting your new amp inbetween the old amp and the speakers.

linners

24-10-2012, 01:36 PM

Guys

Just found this thread after I'd posted on another Audi forum asking the same thing
I've had a quick read through and from what I can gather, there is no RCA pre-out to a separate amp for the sub output of the MMI head unit??? Therefore, I can't connect my Kenwood mono amp with RCA inputs to the OEM system to keep all the functionality of the MMI for the stereo???

TIA

mjerome

24-10-2012, 03:58 PM

That's correct. The Audi system use a MOST interface via optical cables. You can buy amps that have a high level (speaker input - see above posts) or you can buy a MOST pre amp bridge (also see link above) that allows you to use RCA. Both ways work and still allow the MMI interface to work properly.

linners

24-10-2012, 04:27 PM

Dammit!

Or..... how about a "speaker cable to RCA converter" to feed the mono amp? (I'm assuming there's only 1 sub in the OEM set-up)

???

linners

25-10-2012, 01:45 PM

Just checked the specs of my amp (Kenwood KAC-9104D) and it has speaker level input :)

Below is from Kenwood's website:

Speaker level Input

You can add a power amplifier to your existing system and enjoy more dynamic
car audio sound. By using the Speaker Level Input function of the Amplifier, the
music signal can be picked up from the existing speaker wiring and routed to the
extra power amp for amplification to drive higher-power speakers

Brycie

08-11-2012, 11:51 PM

Mjerome, have you had more work done on your A6? I saw Gavin had put some custom fit speakers in the door of an A6 recently (where the door pocket should be) & I wondered if it was your's again. Looks awesome anyway.

SRT88

06-01-2013, 12:44 AM

Igloo

06-01-2013, 12:40 PM

That would be useful :)

SRT88

06-01-2013, 09:48 PM

What do you need pal? DSP to BOSE retrofit "how to" OR tweeter relocation OR additional Sub retrofit OR soundproofing?

toofunkyhouse

10-01-2013, 10:40 AM

What sort of cost would it be to get better sub and speakers fitted into my a6? I tried a local place but they want 750 for some new front speakers and an active sub. Seems a little steep to me lol

SRT88

10-01-2013, 11:02 AM

For an Active Sub you need:
1. Subwoofer itself - I would suggest you use shallow mount subs in small enclosures or buy the Q7 OEM BOSE(Separate tire mount/Donut design) Sub from ebay.
2. Amplifier to drive the Sub - it strongly depends on the Subwoofer/s you have chosen in the previous step
3. Helix - Active Controlled High-Low Converter - This one is known as very reliable and quality one -> do NOT go cheap here buying generic trash!!! It is supposed to take the signal from your factory amp Subwoofer wires and feed it to the amplifier you have bought in the previous step

"some new front speakers" .... this information is just not enough to give you some advice. Please tell me what audio Stage you have (BOSE or DSP) and also what you do NOT like in you front sound stage(compared to your home cinema OR car of a friend for example)
"they want 750": is the installation included (price per hour?)? What are the components included in this quote?

toofunkyhouse

10-01-2013, 11:50 AM

That's for a focal sub and hertz fronts fitted.

SRT88

10-01-2013, 11:52 AM

Which sub, just give a link?! Fronts...is it tweeters only or a component system(2way or 3way). Do you have DSP or BOSE sound system in your A6?
Do you want help? :D

toofunkyhouse

10-01-2013, 12:34 PM

They said its a ten inch with a remote. Not sure about what the fronts comprise of. Only pinged a quick email to them for a quote. My car is non Bose. Yeah it might work out a lot cheaper if I do it my self so help would be great :)

SRT88

10-01-2013, 08:41 PM

Try to read around and decide which way you want to go. I had DSP and before I put the BOSE amp in place I only installed the front indoor Subs and Middle speakers(tweeters are the same). Major improvement in the whole band! Then I found time to retrofit the amp itself and all the other speakers - again major difference and Surround sound in all its meaning. Then I relocated the tweters on the side trim (inside metal spheres) and installed the center speaker. Again major difference and finally pure clarity in the level of the ears!
So my advice is first to upgrade to BOSE, than IF the sound lacks clarity and low end base - relocate the tweeters and add trunk-mount subwoofer/s. Just do NOT listen to sound gurus who tell you OEM sound is <removed> therefore you have to add a whole aftermarket surround processor like BitOne or JBL-8 or Rockford Fosgate 360.2 etc. Of course it will be better and of course it will be tuned perfectly to your ears BUT(MAJOR BUT) you will loose a fair amount of OEM integration and it will cost a FORTUNE!
Keep looking and do some research for now. Then come back, I will be here for you!

bops6

10-01-2013, 08:48 PM

Sound advice excuse the pun, i have the bose surround system but feel it lacks in low end base. What would you recommend as when i approached my local specialist he said leave it alone as he wasn't confident he could improve it:O

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SRT88

10-01-2013, 11:32 PM

As I said before:
For an Active Sub you need:
1. Subwoofer itself - I would suggest you use shallow mount subs in small enclosures or buy the Q7 OEM BOSE(Separate tire mount/Donut design) Sub from ebay.
2. Amplifier to drive the Sub - it strongly depends on the Subwoofer/s you have chosen in the previous step
3. Helix - Active Controlled High-Low Converter - This one is known as very reliable and quality one -> do NOT go cheap here buying generic trash!!! It is supposed to take the signal from your factory amp - Subwoofer wires and feed it to the amplifier you have bought in the previous step

kh boey

07-07-2013, 06:16 PM

I went from MMI 2G DSP to BOSE. All the gear bought from €bay and for a skilled DIYer it was fairly easy to retrofit everything but the center speaker and AudioPilot mic. I have put Focal KRS100 at front and Hertz Tweets in Stainless spheres at the front. Still to go two 8" shallow subs via RF amps and HighLow Converter.
If you are interested I could summarize my BOSE-plus system install. As well as soundproofing.

Hi SRT88,

Regarding your success with upgrading your system to Bose , need your help before getting a set from ebay.

Questions
(1) so the Bose amp just connect to the existing DSP or remove the existng DSP ? where was the DSP located?
(2) need VAG com to change any setting?
(3) what waas include in the Bose kit all the speakers , tweeters, an amp? any other cables require?

Thanks

Taximan6660

15-11-2013, 08:08 PM

Hi SRT88,

Regarding your success with upgrading your system to Bose , need your help before getting a set from ebay.

Questions
(1) so the Bose amp just connect to the existing DSP or remove the existng DSP ? where was the DSP located?
(2) need VAG com to change any setting?
(3) what waas include in the Bose kit all the speakers , tweeters, an amp? any other cables require?

Thanks

Did you get an answer to these questions ? i on
ly ask because i would like to know myself!

denis24arad

03-04-2014, 03:57 PM

Hy bops6 kann you please contact me because i want to ask you a few detail about your car.Thank you. denis89arad@googlemail.com

bops6

04-04-2014, 05:55 AM

and the excitement begins (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=772279)

Details of car are here in its own thread, any other queries can be posted there

2007 3.0 tdi le mans
Hybrid turbo decat miltek etc
330-350 bhp
450-500lbsft

denis24arad

04-04-2014, 06:38 AM

I wanted to ask you about your engine upgrade 350 ps ?Where did you made the upgrade what parts have you used and the most important price ;)

Guest 2

04-04-2014, 07:18 AM

Your questions aren't related to this thread, check his thread he linked in the above post.

and the excitement begins (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=772279)

Details of car are here in its own thread, any other queries can be posted there

2007 3.0 tdi le mans
Hybrid turbo decat miltek etc
330-350 bhp
450-500lbsft

Alex jb

18-04-2014, 08:29 PM

Learned a lot from this thread thanks all :)
I have a 'concert radio' and In the rear left panel of my 58plate Avant, there is a device that looks a lot like the basic DSP described earlier. Why couldn't hey just stick with wires! Damn can bus!

Anyway, I will likely go down the route of high level speaker wired converted to low level and fed to my mono amp, unless anyone knows of a cheaper MOST interrupter that can provide clean signals?

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