Dension 500S BT installation issues

[mrdannyaitch]

Hi all, first post here :o

I've just picked up an 08 58 S line Avant (pre-facelift) after having to sell my A5 Coupe due to imminent birth of our first child.

My A5 had MMI 3G with the harddrive nav and Pre fitted AMI, however my A6 seems to only have what I believe to be 2G high, with a possibly up to date software (3D maps? Is this a good indicator).

Having come from a car with so many audio options and during the 100+ mile journey home from buying the car with only radio to keep me company I quickly decided I need to do something about it.

My problem is that there seems to be a few versions of the AMI for sale on eBay, some are CAN versions, some aren't.

I've read a few how to write ups (Including gupstergs) but now before I shell out for a possibly incorrect AMI module I thought I'd ask some experts.

Can anyone explain what the differences are if any between:

AMI CAN interface 8T0035785
AMI Module 4E0 057 785F

I'm quite happy to lose the CD changer in the glovebox but would love some guidance as it is a bit of a minefield.

Thanks in advance, Dan.

[Guest 2]

CD changer is a stright swap for the AMI unit.

You need 4E0 057 785 F

You can buy the whole kit here - Audi Music Interface New Genuine AMI Ipod Interface MP3 Complete Retro-Fit Kit | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audi-Music-Interface-New-Genuine-AMI-Ipod-Interface-MP3-Complete-Retro-Fit-Kit-/180931218436?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2a20574c04) and you can ask the seller for the AMI only if you want to swap it for the CD changer

Basically to swap is remove the changer using the removal keys, unplug 2 cables and plug them into the AMI. Mmi restart and there you go.

Could you confirm you have 2G for us.

[mrdannyaitch]

It definitely only has the scroll wheel rather than the scroolwheel and joystick, also DVD nav rather than the HDD that my A5 had, so unless there is yet another version (very possible!) between 2G and 3G I think it's the 2G.

Thanks for the quick response, I'll look into that then.

Whilst on the audio subject, the car has Bluetooth for voice but no audio over A2DP which as the same situation I was in on the A5. Since I now have spotify I was considering a Dension gateway. Does anyone know if there re interoperability problems between the car BT and the Dension? Presume I can just turn the factory one off and use the Dension?

Id like to retain as much "factory" look and operation as possible, so with the Dension (or similar) is there an option that will put track names on the MMI screen and allow steering wheel track control?

It may be that I forgo the AMI totally depending on the A2DP Options available to me.

Again, thank you.

[Guest 2]

Pre facelift will have 2G - never noticed that when I first read your post.

Nope, no Ad2P streaming on 2G although you can buy a A2DP adapter for the AMI which will allow this although these are pretty rare to find and are expensive when found.

You can't swtich it off as such, you would have the remove it and have the car 'de-coded'.

The Dension is just like the AMI and sits in the glovebox out of the way.

With the AMI and Dension 500 you can have an AUX, iPod/iPhone and USB input for memory sticks and external hdd's which run on USB.

[mrdannyaitch]

I think from looking at the various Dension options with Bluetooth (the 500 Gateway plus adapter and/or the 500s BT) show the options of controlling at least the tracks over BT using the steering wheel so I think I'll go down that route rather than the AMI. Prior to selling the A5 I'd bought a separate BT receiver and was prepping to mod an AMI ipod lead to fool the AMI - 3G is a pain for bluetoth audio!

not sure if i can link to sites but Densions site for the 500S BT refers to it being suitable for cars with the fibre optic MOST system, which I believe s accurate for me due to the CD player in the glovebox? Gateway 500S BT (http://www.dension.com/product/gateway-500s-bluetooth)

Thank you for your prompt help.

[Guest 2]

Yep that will work as the A6 uses the fibre loop system

It must be one of their new products as I only knew about the 500 plus the BTA1500 adapter but this seems to have integrated BT into one unit.


Gateway 500S BT is Dension's premium interface and is designed to work with cars which utilize the fiber optic MOST system.

Gateway 500S BT (http://www.dension.com/product/gateway-500s-bluetooth)

[mrdannyaitch]

Lovely! Thank you so much for your help, could have made some expensive errors on my own!

[Guest 2]

No problemo - I'm not sure how the BT will work though having two systems fitted :confused:

[mrdannyaitch]

Me neither TBH!

I think I can amend some settings in the gateway for audio and voice. I suppose I can not have the Audi BT paired and then it shouldn't matter.

[mrdannyaitch]

Well I guess the old mantra of researching things properly applies again; didn't realise how much of a pain installing the Dension was going to be compared to the AMI. I ordered two types of removal keys from Ebay and the wrong ones turned up first so that has given me enough time to watch the 5 excellent install youtube videos by Enfig.

I thought I was going to get a power adaptor/extension loop with the 500S BT but it just comes with bare wires to which I'm going to need to add fuses, a spade connector, a another looped terminal connector for the earth and open up more panels.

Still, it's a little bit like installing ICE when you first pass your test, you never really get over that feeling of seeing your car in bits!

Either way this has become a weekend job instead of the 20 mins I was expecting. Lesson learned.

[gupsterg]

Looks like a great bit of kit... nice to see a new version...

Maybe photos/guide how you get on :)

[mrdannyaitch]

I have to say, those five videos on YouTube from Enfig I mentioned are going to be a massive help and will be more eloquent in video than any photos I could take.

And I like the spec.dock they install, but they're massively overpriced for UK buyers.

[mrdannyaitch]

Well I made a start tonight. And now I have a nonfunctional changer radio and satnav.

Ran into a few problems.

1) the FOT into the back of the changer was slightly different to the one I was expecting - the lead I needed to remove and insert into the Dension supplied one was supposed to have a releasing clip but was actually an all in one molded terminal. I had to lift a small piece of plastic which snapped in order to wiggle the lead loose. The Dension lead which then went back in is ever so slightly loose so I'll have to perhaps tape it tight.

2) it got dark

3) I opened up the trim to get to the fuse panel. There is a bolt there to use as the earth for the new power supply, and a good point to run the live (per the videos I mentioned I've crimped a spade terminal for the live and a looped terminal for the earth, and fitted a ten amp bladed fuse in a holder to the power lead). The spade terminal will slot into one of the fuse points. The problem here was that I hadn't disconnected the battery (not sure if I was supposed to) and really didn't fancy getting zapped!

Hopefully this will all pan out because as it stands I wish I'd just bought the AMI and not bothered with Bluetooth steaming!

[mrdannyaitch]

Another update...

So after finally deciding I wouldn't electrocute myself by undoing the battery terminal, I managed to get a bit further along with the install.

I will try to take some pics at the weekend before I seal it all up but difficulties tonight have been:

Running the cables in/out of the glovebox was a very tight fit. I eventually ran the iPod and USB cables though the top right hole at the back of the left slot where the AMI would sit, and the other interface lead through the top left hole and then down and across the back of the glovebox.

I still couldn't get the MMI to come on (well it comes on saying Audi Multimedia but then goes blank). At this stage there are a number of suspects such as there being no power to the live wire, the DIP switches might not be in the correct position, potentially I may need the MMI software update which I had assumed I wouldn't need due to the 3D maps working on my satnav, or there's an unknown problem.

I'm getting light shining out of the FOT that will connect to the Dension when I press the MMI button so hopefully it's not a problem with the leads.

I should point out that I haven't undone the glovebox at all, just popped the panel behind the footwell light out which is on four clips and used that for access.

So I've unplugged the Unswitched live connection for the time being and will have another go tomorrow or at the weekend. I've seen that some people take the live off the CD player power lead so I may have to explore that route.

[gupsterg]

I hope you not take offence from thanks I have placed on your post's...

I have done thanks as these posts will help another if they decide to do this retro as to what pitfalls they may encounter and your fixes/work around's...

[mrdannyaitch]

No problem at all, hopefully I will get it all working tonight. I hate it when people get advice on forms and don't let people know how the advice worked for them so hopefully this will end up saving others some time in the future.

Quick question regarding the MMI screen not coming on. If I hold setup, control wheel and top right soft key will this work to reset the MMI even if the screen is not coming on?

Also, if it's down to the software not being up to date, am I facing a hefty bill for Audi or a specialist to do it for me? Will the MMI screen need to be on? Is it done via the DVD player in the boot or the cd player in the glovebox?

[gupsterg]

Quick question regarding the MMI screen not coming on. If I hold setup, control wheel and top right soft key will this work to reset the MMI even if the screen is not coming on?
That is right key combo for MMI reset... would assume it would be resetting... but not sure :Blush2: if it do reset on my Avant I can hear a faint relay click over from rear


Also, if it's down to the software not being up to date, am I facing a hefty bill for Audi or a specialist to do it for me?

I maybe wrong but software update may not be issue... my view is screen may not be coming on... as did you get upstream/downstream switched over on fibre optical loop when you remove and relocate from plug??

I think Audi will charge an 1hrs labour to do MMI update... some dealers do update, others will tell you not feasible for your car, from my own experience/others posts...


Will the MMI screen need to be on?Is it done via the DVD player in the boot or the cd player in the glovebox?

The MMI update if doing at home is done via cd player in glovebox... without screen functioning I would not advise/even attempt update myself...

Even if you used the correct key sequence out of guide/posts to do an update blindly it would be tricky...
I've done reflash's on PC hardware without a screen but a different kettle of fish the Audi...

Boot DVD can not be used...

[mrdannyaitch]

Yet another update....

I have everything installed ok, but I can only get GW AUX as a setting until I plug my iPhone in, which then changes to IPOD GW so the track names show on both screens and I can control the songs via MMI and the steering wheel, but I'm not getting full control over the iPhone's iPod controls. I can't stream over BT at all and call quality over BT is rubbish.

I should be able to get different settings in order to have a greater level of control but these are not appearing. I've tried setting dip switches to 3 and 6 which doesn't work, 2,5 and 6 which works as above; 2 and 5 works best and lets me use the car BT for calls. I've tried unpairing the car and phone and turning off switch 6 to try to get streaming that way but it doesn't work.

This is where I've taken the Unswitched live from. Is there anyone out there with knowledge of the fuse board who could tell me if this would be a good point for Unswitched 12v? I wouldn't know a multimeter if I saw one. After extensive research it might be that there's not enough power to the Dension.

17654

It's really getting on my nerves!

[gupsterg]

Ahhh bit slow on pressing submit on post... LOL at least you got sussed...

But I leave original in case some else use info...



Another way to check if it is the optical loop crudely is to buy optical bridge...

This will basically complete the loop without a component in place, screen should come on...


VW/Audi sells a handy loop of fiber (part number 4E0 973 802 ) that can be used in place of each of the components in the system. This can be used to check whether a component is responsible for breaking the loop.

Ref.Link:- Ross-Tech: VCDS Tour: Optical Bus Diagnostics (http://www.ross-tech.com/vcds/tour/optical-bus.html)

[gupsterg]

This is where I've taken the Unswitched live from. Is there anyone out there with knowledge of the fuse board who could tell me if this would be a good point for Unswitched 12v? I wouldn't know a multimeter if I saw one. After extensive research it might be that there's not enough power to the Dension.

You could run cable to left plenum chamber, as that where the feed from battery in boot comes out... only suggesting as you state wanting more power..

[mrdannyaitch]

Sorry you've lost me there, bit new to this! Tried searching but I'm just finding articles about heating.

[gupsterg]

Hi,

here is a thread detailing some of the procedure Link:- Fuel pump in fuel tank (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?134415-Fuel-pump-in-fuel-tank)

here is a thread showing what inside of left plenum chamber electric look like Link:- Mysterious relays plenum chamber (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?135721-Mysterious-relays-plenum-chamber)

3rd photo, 1st post, the feed from battery is the big cable...

Again only reason suggesting this as you said
After extensive research it might be that there's not enough power to the Dension.

I'm quite surprised it need more power....

[mrdannyaitch]

TBH I'm not entirely sure what the problem could be.

Thank you for those links, all looks a bit out of my league!

Not knowing anything at all about auto electrics, will the majority of those empty fuse slots have 12v unswitched going to them?

It's a bit of a puzzle, and because the 500S BT is a very new unit there isn't much on the web about trouble shooting them. And the Dension support site comes up as no longer available!

Just had a thought - the new unit features 1A charging support; this might be a very daft question but could that have anything to do with it? i.e. not having enough power? It does charge the phone? The idea about not enough power comes from the installation guide troubleshooting section.

[gupsterg]

I am self employed.. now is a busier time for me as everyone on holiday... :)

If you post links to that install video will have a quick ganders on Sunday & Monday as is quieter day's for me work wise... I have not looked at install PDF/Video :Blush2: been bit busy...

Will dig around "current diagrams"...

IMO 12v power off the CD changer power plug should be enough... "Pin 1=Ground Pin 2=+12V Pin 5=Diagnostic link" ... will dig up some photos for ref... put the pins are marked on plug on harness...

I've seen thread on another forum where a loose BT aerial on genuine Audi module caused a non detection on BT scan from phone... maybe something like this your issue... ie location of Dension module... again only guessing :Blush2:

Besides the other great posters there is one who will be able to guide you... maybe a PM to him...

A8Tech :You_Rock_Link:- VW AUDI Forum - VWAF (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/member.php?11915-a8-tech)

If all else fail and you willing to travel I can PM you my location and a meet when convenient for us both I have tools and VCDS/VAGCOM :)
and I luv a project :) and other than admiring your car no fee... and I'm not an Audi tech/mechanic... just an enthusiast... with an estate of course ;)

[mrdannyaitch]

Thanks, that's a very kind offer, but hopefully Dension will get back to me on the raised ticket. I've been reluctant to mess with the cd changer harness as I know it works at the moment and I'd like to not break it! But I do think that's a logical step if no one can tell me where an empty socket is on the fuse board supplying unswitched live.

The Dension pdf's are here Gateway 500S BT (http://www.dension.com/product/gateway-500s-bluetooth)

the install vids are here

pt 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM5HNIdGRik
pt 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz_1FSEqpng
pt 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_QasrDp-J0
pt 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO47qsmYQ5Y
pt 5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnS8N9fwhIs


Thank you very much for your help so far

[Guest 2]

Thread title changed as per OP's request

[gupsterg]

Cheers... links make easier.. could of searched, but thanks, will have nose... :)


I've been reluctant to mess with the cd changer harness as I know it works at the moment and I'd like to not break it!

I like your thoughts... I would buy a power harness coupling, like the one used in AMI retro and mod that to have split then plug that into original harness...

That way you are not wrecking the original harness... is removal if decide to undo retro...

[mrdannyaitch]

I was just looking at your AMI install guide and thinking that power loop is exactly what Dension need to supply/offer with this kit. I know they fit a lot of different cars but the option would be great!

[gupsterg]

turbo_herbie does sell the lead separately as I bought certain cables from him for DAB retro as well...
they are on ebay uk/de as well... probably available from Audi dealer as well, but not sure on P/N... I will try to check...

*** update power harness P/N look like 4F0051592A but would check with dealer ***
*** ebay sellers which may interest you Link:- T (http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/turbo_herbie/?_trksid=p4340.l2559)urbo_Herbie (http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/turbo_herbie/?_trksid=p4340.l2559) Link:- GermanPartsSpecialists (http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/germanpartsspecialists/?_trksid=p4340.l2559) ***

But the male/female power plug and crimped leads which go in them are available from Audi as well, but not sure on P/N... I will try to check...
As sometimes they themselves will repair a harness instead of replace them completely....

There are other benefits of using the CD changer harness power as it will be fused...
Battery regulation module is able to switch off the power if draining car battery so you can at least start car, etc ...

[mrdannyaitch]

How's this for bizarre?

I hadn't tried the USB function so I loaded a few mp3 files onto a key and plugged it in. When it eventually loaded it played as expected (apart from only seeing track names and not being able to browse by folder name which in this case would have been the album name). Then when I went back to the source selection I could browse the menu settings which I've not been able to do before. So now I can do most of the things I wanted to do; it's not quite exactly how it should be but at this rate it will probably let me do something else tomorrow and at least I know I installed it properly! :beerchug:

[techfreak]

Any update on this?

[invisiblekid75]

So are we saying overal, it's easier swapping out the CD changer and replacing it with the AMI? Without researching admittedly I didn't think the AMI's would be around the same price as the Dension 500 without fitting. If the AMI is easier I guess I may go for one as my old FM transmitter for my iPod is a hateful thing, but it's better than the radio.

Keep the update coming mrdannyaitch, as gupsterg says, everyones trials and tribulations all help others that are in the same boat.

[Guest 2]

Ami is a 30 second swap with the cd changer and its quite simple to keep both too.

[mrdannyaitch]

I think I may have given an update on another thread, but for the purposes of completeness here goes:

1) The final fit went well, following those videos I linked to really helped.
2) Phone functions are identical to factory fit, however see 6d below.
2) The switched live I connected to at the side of the glovebox has caused me no issues and is where I'd recommend going to if anyone uses this method.
3) I don't use an iPod or iPhone any more but I had the Dension showing the normal iPod music structure on the screen when I was.
4) Using a USB key for music works ok but due to the file limitations of what I assume is basic Linux on the Dension, it will only see I think about 12-15 files in a folder before breaking that folder into two, so that shuffle mode will only select those songs in each part of the folder. It's a pain on bigger albums.
5) Bluetooth audio streaming works well, but there are no track names.
6) Sometimes however there are bad bits (!)
6a) The phone will pair but I can't hear music.
6b) A call will connect but I can't hear them, they can hear me.
6c) You pretty much have to turn the ignition on to position one or engine on, then select media, then turn on the phone's bluetooth in order to get the phone to be seen, but oddly it seems to remember it for a period the same day if you leave it paired and then have the ignition off for any period of time such that the switched live goes off.
6d) The phone call clarity is definitely not up to factory standard, but as I've said in other posts, I think that is because the factory unit is still in the MOST loop. As it is located under the passenger seat and I'm not brave enough to risk setting off airbags or having them not go off, I've left it alone. I don't drive the car all day every day enough for it to be an issue, and it is more than acceptable. You will notice the difference though.

Hope that the above helps anyone in the future.

As an aside, I've been looking into purchasing a Dension Audio Video Router (AVR) In Car Video Solutions - Audio Video Router (http://www.dension.com/product/audio-video-router) as this plugs into the iPod connector on the Dension Gateway and allows video to the display and audio all in one. Now that I have gone the Dension route I think this will be a much better idea than going for the Xcarlink module I was looking at. Also, Dension do a DAB module which plugs into the gateway (this might be via the same iPod connection though on the gateway) so I'm considering that too. Watch this space!

[techfreak]

Thanks for the update. I had an old xcarlink without bt in an old Audi and it worked great, I'd hope the fancy new units are even better.

[gupsterg]

With AMI I have experienced no issues on filenames/folders/quantity of data, etc with USB sticks I've used (4Gb & 8Gb sticks vary brands)...
It even picks up playlists and keeps them in a separate folder on the top level of AMI menu :) ...

I have factory fit phone prep I've had no connection/usage issues with:-

i) Motorola V3, V9 (for retro days :cool:) ii) Samsung various iii) HTC various iv) iPhone 4 various iOS

MMI Firmware is 5570 ... recently been using iPhone but today had a Samsung in my pocket jumped in car and without re-pairing all worked good :) ...