Audi Dealership has defrauded/scammed me good and proper - Advice Needed

[SuperCharger28]

On around 2011.11.24 I had recieved my vehicle back from a service from the local audi dealership which I had paid £399 for. They had not told me that the manifold runners or glowplugs were faulty which raised questions in my head as why didnt they hook the car up to diagnostic port as part of this £399 service?

Anyway I managed to get the manager/service head to book it in for a scan the next day. They told me then that a manifold runner bank 2 and one glow plug had gone (I already knew) and I scanned it myself via VAG-Com just for peace of mind.


Address 01: Engine Labels: Redir Fail!
Part No SW: 4F5 910 401 K HW: 4F0 907 401 C
Component: 2.7L V6TDI G000SG 0020
Revision: --H05--- Serial number:
Coding: 0011322
Shop #: WSC 02335 785 00200

2 Faults Found
005660 - Glowplug for Cylinder 3 (Q12): Open Circuit
P161C - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01110001
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 94797 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2011.11.24
Time: 09:28:22

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 903 /min
Torque: 78.0 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Duty Cycle: 1.0 %
Voltage: 13.45 V
Duty Cycle: 24.5 %
Temperature: 11.7°C

004120 - Intake Manifold Runner (Bank 2): Lower limit not reached
P1018 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100001
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 6
Mileage: 94805 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2011.11.24
Time: 17:22:14

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Torque: 0.0 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Voltage: 12.24 V
Duty Cycle: 20.5 %
Duty Cycle: 88.8 %
Duty Cycle: 20.5 %

Readiness: 0 0 0 0 0 After discussion with audi UK and the manager of that particular branch of audi we had agreed that the whole manifold runner unit (bank 2) and the glowplug would be replaced via a 50% contribution from audi UK bringing the total cost down to £300. However when I went to pick the car up after the work had been done (yesterday) they did not have a receipt to show the work that had been carried out which seemed very strange to me. However the receptionist told me that because I had a 50% goodwill gesture that it had to be sent out in the post due to something to do with audi UK which sounded like a load of BS.

So I scan the car with VAG-COM when I get home to my horror and I find this


Address 01: Engine Labels: Redir Fail!
Part No SW: 4F5 910 401 K HW: 4F0 907 401 C
Component: 2.7L V6TDI G000SG 0020
Revision: --H05--- Serial number:
Coding: 0011322
Shop #: WSC 02335 785 00200

1 Fault Found
012597 - Intake Manifold Runner Control: Lower Stop not Reached
P3135 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100001
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 94910 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2011.12.02
Time: 16:11:46

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 924 /min
Torque: 46.8 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Voltage: 11.25 V
Duty Cycle: 88.8 %
Duty Cycle: 80.9 %
Duty Cycle: 80.9 %

Readiness: 0 0 0 0 0 And I also find that there is now a new problem with the current from the battery - I think they have used incorrect glowplugs or it is something to do with the glowplugs.


Address 61: Battery Regul. Labels: 4F0-910-181.lbl
Part No SW: 4F0 910 181 F HW: 4F0 915 181 B
Component: J0644 BEM H12 0760
Revision: 00000000 Serial number: 00000000024734
Shop #: WSC 00409 210 91017

Part No: 4F0 915 105 D
Component: von VA0 2802111521
Coding: 344630393135313035442056413032383032313131353231
Shop #: WSC 00000 384 00290

2 Faults Found
02272 - Quiescent Current Stage 1
000 - - - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 7
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 94910 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2011.12.02
Time: 14:38:58

02273 - Quiescent Current Stage 2
000 - - - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 7
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 94910 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2011.12.02
Time: 14:45:24

I am very shocked that all they have done is change the tolerances via VAG-COM and reset the light for the intake manifold runner even though they said they were replacing the whole BANK 2 assembly. And it is very fishy they have not given me a receipt. I am now in a position where I have no faith in this particular garage that they have even carried out my service properly which I paid £400 for and the £300 i paid for having a light being reset and being given a battery fault. I'm going to see if the receipt comes in the post on Monday if not I'm going to chase it up via audi UK and attempt to take it through the courts.

I knew car dealers didn't have the best of reputations but I am shocked. Good job I have my VAG-COM.

Please advise on what you would do in my situation?

P.S. - Not going to name any specific dealership yet.

[paul1964]

Dont use them again, find another or better still use a good independent

[a8 tech]

battery manager has nothing to do with the glow plug or manifold fault

most likely the vehicle has been tested without a battery charger connected hence the manager has kicked in for voltage drop and stored the event

for vehicles equipped with battery manager there must be a suitable battery charger connected whilst working on the vehicle as the networks will drain the battery hence the 6 stages of shut down to protect the battery voltage

Deactivation stages
The individual deactivation stages are
initiated by the energy management control
unit in line with the charge of the vehicle
battery.

The deactivation stages result in the
following:

– Deactivation stage 1
Convenience CAN loads are deactivated.

– Deactivation stage 2
Initiation of this stage results in
deactivation of additional convenience
CAN loads. Certain infotainment system
restrictions are implemented.

– Deactivation stage 3
Reduction of the closed-circuit current is
initiated.

– Deactivation stage 4 – Transportation
mode
This deactivation stage is activated by way
of the diagnosis unit and cannot be
initiated independently by the energy
management control unit.

– Deactivation stage 5
The auxiliary heater is deactivated

– Deactivation stage 6
Bus system wake-up action is reduced.

as for your glow plug issue It would be good practice to replace all of them

goodwill is a % paid from audi uk to the part and the dealer pays the rest and stands the labour so they will be out of pocket on this repair and any profit made from the service lost

so when the repairs are carried out you will have paid very little compared to the actual total cost of this repair so value for money has certainly been in your favour and I'm quite sure no indi would pay out so much to resolve your issue if in fact anything as you have manufacturers support with a vehicle outside warranty criterion

as far as i'm aware no letter would be sent as the dealer just needs the authority to replace the manifold so there may be some confusion here hence your mistrust

contact the service manager or audi uk cc case manger to discuss the issue

[SuperCharger28]

Is there any reason why it has come back with more faults than when it went in? Any why there is still a fault with a manifold. Also they have still not sent me a receipt which they promised I would have by Monday. What do you think?

[SuperCharger28]

Receipt arrived today which showed "Manifold Flap replaced" and funnily enough no part numbers.

This was not what was agreed - they breached contract and have been dishonest. They agreed to replace the entire manifold bank 2 assembly including the motor, which they have not done. They told me the part they were going to replace cost in excess of £400 whereas a flap costs hardly anything! My solicitor tells me I have a strong case against them hence I shall be taking this further. If anyones interested just post.

[kite]

If no joy with the dealer contact Audi CS 0800699888

[a8 tech]

I feel there is some confusion here and the deceptionist is not helping explaining what has actually been replaced


video

https://www.rapidshare.com/files/244110873/000052.mpg


For fault code

1 Fault Found
012597 - Intake Manifold Runner Control: Lower Stop not Reached
P3135 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/../../viewer/hst2-html-view-2006-12/res/offlineconnection.gif

Entries:

1.12597 intake manifold flap for air flow control, lower stop not reached

or

4120 intake manifold flap 2 for air flow control

Observe video.

2. 8200 intake manifold flap for air flow control

or

8209 intake manifold flap 2 for air flow control, electric complaint

logged in the engine control unit.

Several causes for the entries under 2. Electric and mechanical component complaints on the intake manifold regulator motor (E regulator).

Production change

1. Optimised intake manifold flap with modified rods

A4: 8K5BA012968

Q5: 8R6BA010935

A6: 4F4BN007004

Q7: 4L9BD002120



2. Optimised electric regulator motor for intake manifold flap.

A4: 8E*7A200422

A6: 4F*7N123635

Q7: 4L*7N083156

A8: 4E*4N015849

Cabriolet: 8H*7K029553

Measure

1. This can be caused by a worn shaft bearing of the intake manifold flap or a worn ball end. Thoroughly check the ball ends of the flap shaft and the regulator of the rods for free play (if in doubt remove the intake manifold and inspect the shaft bearing).

If there is free play, replace the complete intake manifold flap. (A regulator replacement does not rectify the complaint!


To avoid repeat repairs both intake manifold flaps should be changed as the other side would also develop problems soon.



2. Check the E-regulator according to the repair manual ( Note: At the moment the repair is only included in the A6 repair manual, the other models are still in preparation). Replace the regulator, if all points are completed in the guided fault finding and the regulator was diagnosed as incorrect.

If no complaint is found in the guided fault finding, check the environmental conditions of the above entry.



Example of environmental condition:

1. engine speed

2. torque

3. speed

4. battery voltage

5. feedback for bank 1 (E-regulator)

6. feedback for bank 2 (E- regulator)

7. specified value (E-regulator)
•
If "8 %" is logged in the specified environmental conditions in the 5th or 6th digit, this indicates an electric component complaint in the E- regulator (cylinder bank 1 or 2) . >> Replace the E-regulator.
•
If "12%" is logged, this points to a feedback error from regulator to engine control unit, which is recognised by the diagnosis when driving. This points to a stiff adjustment. (Cause: for example intake manifold flap shaft seized. Replace the complete intake manifold.
•
If "88%" is logged, this points to an adjustment range complaint. The adjustment range of the E-regulator is checked when switching on the ignition. The diagnosis recognises deviations when moving to the inner stops. (Cause: could be stiffness of the adjustment in the regulator or the intake manifold flap shaft.) - Detach the rods of the regulator and check the intake manifold flap adjustment. If the adjustment is stiff, replace the complete intake manifold. If the adjustment is correct, check wiring, plug, loose pins; if no damage is found, replace the regulator.

•
An E-regulator is not available for all variants/model years. In these cases the complete intake manifold must be changed).

[SuperCharger28]

They actually told me that they would be replacing the whole assembly (bank 2) including new runners and motor basically the whole unit which costs £400+ but on the receipt it says a flap ONLY. and that faults under engine on VAG-COM.

[a8 tech]

sounds like they have replaced the motor only but if this is the diagnosed correctly then it has not been described correctly in the invoice as part replaced and why

the manifold and motor would be near to £1200 for each bank

[SuperCharger28]

The invoice is basically just the following with £300 at the bottom.

Cylinder 3 glowplug replaced
Manifold flap replaced

and thats it.


And the fault is still there so i'm not happy, Do you know how much just the flap that they have replaced costs?

[SuperCharger28]

Update for you guys.

Opened up engine my mechanic reckons glowplug 5 and 3 have been swapped. Checked with VCDS, glowplug 5 is now "open circuit"

A report has been filed against them with trading standards and my credit card has been notified. I've also notified my solicitor who thinks I have a good case if I have to go that far *sigh* I have a before and after pic of the water level in my car below mimimum, and when I got it back it was still below minimum, so if they skimped on water what else have they skimped on? lol.

These things take too long to resolve :(

[Timothy Nathan]

I don't know how much experience you have of going through the courts, but do remember that almost no-one ends a court process satisfied with the outcome (except the lawyers, of course.)

If you can get this resolved without resorting to going to law, you will have a happier life, almost certainly.

Have you asked your solicitor to enter a CFA? They will when they are confident of winning, not so if they are not.

Although I spend a lot of time in court, the only time I have sued was when Zurich failed to pay up on a £1320 insurance claim. I ended up accepting £1200 (having paid out £120 in court fees) on the day before the hearing, which most litigation lawyers would count as a full win, because of the litigation risk.

My guess is that I spent 100 hours on the case, fighting off Zurich disgusting bully boy tactics, such as trying to move the case to Portsmouth, and then to Glasgow under Scottish Law and many other low and irrelevant tricks.

Thus a "full win" consisted of me being £240 out of pocket and, at my rate of pay, £4700 lost in time spent.

So, although I am sure we all have enormous sympathy with you, and your plight aired here will have warned us all about VAG dealerships being unscrupulous to the point of criminality, I would try to avoid direct court action.

From what you say, you might have a case for Trading Standards to look at enforcement, or even criminal charges (it sounds like deliberate fraud from what you are saying, without hearing their side.) Personally I would see if you can get them to take an interest.

[SuperCharger28]

Have taken it up with trading standards and apparently I'm not the only one to have complained about that particular "dealership".

I'll be waiting for them to investigate further and hopefully contact the garage on my behalf.

[Timothy Nathan]

Is it a dealership or a "dealership"?

If it's a dealership, and well known to Trading Standards, surely Audi UK will want to know?

[discobarry]

Wow, i've read this thread and it must be pretty annoying! could you of not gone back to the dealership and took it up with them to try get the problem with resolved? Or of agreed with them to have a dealership of your choice to the repair works? I don't know really but i would of tried to resolve it without going through the courts as it seems an expensive way of getting a job done which you will still need to get done properly afterwards anyway.

How American we are going!

[SuperCharger28]

It is an actual official Audi Dealership Franchise.

I have tried contacting them numerous times. I have given them 7 working days to respond to letters written months ago yet they have not responded. They seem adamant on resolving this via mobile phone conversation. A method in which I cannot prove anything if I have to take this to court - most unprofessional. I will be contacting Audi CS however the last three times I have called I have been put on hold for a long time. Will most likely write a letter to them. Trading standards most likely should be able to solve this, nonetheless I have paid £800 for basically nothing :/

The fact they are so fearful of sending me anything in writing must obviously show something is going on.