Has anyone had dpf removed??

[gresty]

Just a quick un and wondered if anyone has had the dpf removed and ecu remapped. Seen a company near to me who have replacement pipes and do a remap. Considering having it done. http://www.jbsautodesigns.co.uk/

[martin1810]

This can be a nightmare...make sure the company have done an identical car to yours before and if possible check with that owner to confirm it went ok. This is not a simple job.

[gresty]

Thanks pal. That's what I was thinking. Don't know of anyone who has had it done and a bit worried bout having it done. The dpf warning been making few appearances over the past months and it's possibly due to the high miles on the car (123000). Don't know whether to have new dpf fitted or go down the deletion route.

When the light comes on, I take her a run down motorway and after couple junctions light goes off. But 3 to 4 weeks down line it comes back on, it does get quite annoying.

Have also seen these additives that you add to diesel and additives that you put into the dpf (different to the french car stuff) and wonder if they actually do work. I don't see how they can cos I don't know of anything that can dissolve ash into thin air.

Puzzled.com!!

[andrewturner]

Purely out of curiosity, does the computer put the DPF light on because a sensor has detected the DPF is full of particulate, or is it that the computer's historic measurements tell it that it must now need purging?

[Crasher]

A note on removing the DPF, rumour has it that it may become a part of the MOT test in a few years.

[Issac Hunt]

Do you think the MOT requirement could be retrospectively applied? Or might it just be for cars built from 2015 (for example)?

[Eshrules]

I'd imagine (perhaps wrongly) that the standard would be applicable to vehicles fitted with DPF at factory, so could well be considered to be a retrospective standard.

[Crasher]

I have no idea, it is only a romour.

[gresty]

Gonna have word with my tester or vosa about it. Suppose as it will be a modification and to be on the right side of the law, dvla would need to be informed and that would possibly change tax band on car making it a little more expensive.

But as an afterthought, will removing the dpf alter the emissions cos I thought that it only took away the soot out of the exhaust gases thus giving no smoke out of the back. Doesn't the cat converter do the emissions job and reduce the co2 and other nasties out of the exhaust gases?

[Quatrelle]

Interesting about it being retrospective - as the DPF on 140s was optional (don't know about the others), how deep into the car's history would an MoT go?

[martin1810]

MOT tester are not allowed to physically fiddle with the car. This means that catalysts and dpf's that have been emptied so no longer function, would not fail an MOT because there are no measurement standards for catalysts and dpf's on diesel cars. So basically if the MOT changes in the future, it will almost certainly be a visual check.

[gresty]

So in that case I could remove the dpf rip out all the gubbins, weld it back together then get parameters in ecu changed/remap to "ignore" dpf. So the mot tester will still see a filter but wi nowt innit. Suppose a replacement pipe would bring up the question at test station "shouldn't this have a dpf fitted" when (if) it comes into force.

[gresty]

Purely out of curiosity, does the computer put the DPF light on because a sensor has detected the DPF is full of particulate, or is it that the computer's historic measurements tell it that it must now need purging?

There are 2 sensors one before and one after dpf. They monitor pressures before and after and if the readings of the sensors become "out of scope" due to blockage from un burnt soot in the dpf the light comes on and then you do a regen process to burn off the soot. So I think?!?!?

[martin1810]

There are 2 sensors one before and one after dpf. They monitor pressures before and after and if the readings of the sensors become "out of scope" due to blockage from un burnt soot in the dpf the light comes on and then you do a regen process to burn off the soot. So I think?!?!?


That's correct but the ecu also stores data on previous performance/ regen etc etc. That's why you need an expert to do a DPF delete. You will find loads of people on the web who have had dpf delete followed by shed loads of problems because the ecu is not happy. If a particular car was originally sold as two models, one with dpf and one without, it is an easier job because you can use the non dpf model ecu data for the dpf removed car. This is not so easy when you have no non dpf model to refer to. That's why it is important to use a company that have successfully done this job before.

[gresty]

Hasn't VW done a non dpf 2 litre diesel with 170bhp or something near that power output? Just wondering if all 170bhp models all over the world are same spec.

[martin1810]

Engine data etc is here
https://sites.google.com/site/1810martin/passat-b6-engine-data

[gresty]

Thanks.

[gresty]

Been into said company today and quizzed them about having it removed. £746 all in ?!!! Thats with replacement pipe remap and different engine support Said they do about 4 a week cos there is big demand on this sort of job, but couldn't give me details of anyone in the area who have had it done. Also said that they very rarely have any problems with the remap afterwards and within the remap the ecu is fooled as if the dpf isn't there so the parameters are set so far apart for sensor values that it will never pick up a clogged filter.

Still don't know what to do?!?!

[The Fingers]

a mate of mine has had this done about two months ago.

56 GT TDI 170 - it blocked completley and the cheapest way around it at the time was what was done.

It was basically drilled through and then re mapped to delete the DPF, it runs sweet as a nut currently, in fact it seems to run smoother. On visual inspection it all looks the same.

It seems the thing may have been blocked for a while as the guy who did the job also did the MOT a few weeks previous and had to ring vosa as he could not get an emissions reading from this golf at all. It was running like a bag of spanners as my 140 was quite a bit quicker. They put no hurdles in the way and it passed its MOT.

The job cost £300 all in and the guy that remapped after the drill out said it was a pretty easy job for them. It was run for two weeks then rescanned and no errors reported. All still really good after 2 months.

This golf has done 120K at blockage point and has had a really hard last 30K. he says its alot more free revving and seems quicker.

[gresty]

Thanks for that. I think I just need reassurance about having it done and for forking out the cash for it.

[Hyper-Remaps]

Hi we have done the Audi A3 many times. We have even got the vehicles out of re-gen mode, then gutted the ori pipes. You must be cery careful in the procedure. If it is blocked, or dpf light on, it must be all reset and re generated before you remove the dpf. if not then you will always get dpf error, and limp home mode. Then only way to fix it would be ith a replacement dpf pipe or dealers. if you need more information email me below, or give me a call and I will be more than happy to help you out.
cheers. Bal.
p.s price wise we are very reasonable.

[The Fingers]

The golf i mentioned was completely blocked and in limp mode, they actually thought the turbo had gone at first.

When they took it off it was blocked solid.

[gresty]

Staying on same topic, and although I'm still gonna have dpf removed at some point, the particulate warning lamp has not made an appearance since November and nothing has been done or changed on the inlet/exhaust system (cambelt and water pump done by VW but that won't change owt) driving style hasn't changed or owt daft. It doesn't make any sense as the warning would appear about once every 3 weeks. Self repairing car?????

Bet the bugger comes on now I've said all this :-/

[Imizz]

Gresty, have you had the DPF removal done yet?

Mines blocking up pretty badly, getting the DPF light on every other day now..!!

i've spoked to JBS guys and got the same quoate as you £750 all in, replacement pipe and remap..

[gresty]

Gresty, have you had the DPF removal done yet?

Mines blocking up pretty badly, getting the DPF light on every other day now..!!

i've spoked to JBS guys and got the same quoate as you £750 all in, replacement pipe and remap..


Hi pal. Well in all fairness I haven't had it done due to a couple of factors. One is that it costs so bloody much and two is that I have changed jobs which require a 30 mile round motorway trip and since then it has not come on?!?!? I really do want to have it done but it's down to money at the end of the day. If I had £750 around pal I'd do it (cos new dpf is even more expensive )

[gresty]

Well after year and half of first posting this topic finally had the dpf removed from my beloved. What a difference it has made!! Awesome power gain awesome response awesome torque and awesome economy!! If anyone has got a vw fitted with a dpf and its near the end of its service life I would definitely recommend having it removed (cheaper than fitting new dpf). I cannot praise the people who have done this for me enough at JBS auto designs in Chesterfield.

Big smiles all round.

:D:D
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[John Brooks]

Glad that all went well.
I bought my currant Passat last November 2012, 2007 plate from a 2003 plate. It would seem my car does not have the DPF. This was pot luck because when I looked at buying a new Passat I had not heard of a DPF so was not looking if my car had one or not! I also find it odd because my car does not have a DPF its co2 emissions are less @ 148g/km. But if it had a DFP the emissions would have been 154g/km so also paying more road tax!

[Imizz]

Well after year and half of first posting this topic finally had the dpf removed from my beloved. What a difference it has made!! Awesome power gain awesome response awesome torque and awesome economy!! If anyone has got a vw fitted with a dpf and its near the end of its service life I would definitely recommend having it removed (cheaper than fitting new dpf). I cannot praise the people who have done this for me enough at JBS auto designs in Chesterfield.

Big smiles all round.

:D:D
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Did you get the replacement pipe fitted by JBS or did you gut out the existing DPF pipe?

[gresty]

Hi. Had replacement pipe fitted. Did think about gutting old dpf but if that sort of money is being spent you may as well have it done rate first time. Toltolly different car now. Yes there is smoke now but that's hows diesels are meant to be. All this technology being slapped on diesels are more trouble than they are worth.

Before this was done I has rough running, lack of power, eml light on dpf light on and glow plug light on and I think this is the best cure for that problem. If dpf is replaced with new the fault will eventually reappear and then you have got to go through all this heartache again (not to mention dpf light coming on to recommend a regen) also egr is now redundant so hopefully no future problems with that or throttle valve or majority of vac system.


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[Imizz]

thanks for the quick reply, i can't decide whether to gut the old dpf or replace the pipe.. although the £££ is a big factor init..

[gresty]

I think with a replacement pipe you get better flow of exhaust gasses and sounds a little meatier!!

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[bmwdumptruck]

So has your economy returned to what it once was, or is it better than its ever been? Thinking of doing my Sharan, which at only 28k is sluggish and is around 5-10mpg down on our previous one!!

Have you kept the dpf in case the mot changes and it needs to be seen to be there? I was thinking of gutting for this reason.

[gresty]

I can achieve 45 to 50 mpg if driven like a saint but bwcause the bhp hase gone up from 170 to at least 210 it can be difficult to achieve that when it brings so many smiles to my face. I didnt keep the old dpf for because car went for test and the emissions only went up to 172g/km when the legal limit is 300 for turbocharged diesel engines. Still well chuffed that had it done.

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[Crasher]

The emissions measurement is not g/Km which is the Co2 rating.

[gresty]

My mistake

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[DSG4ME]

iirc you can drill a core out of the filter so gas can't restrict rather than a new pipe if that helps anyone thinking of doing it.

[TH Performance]

You should be able to have the core of the DPF removed (drilled out or some people cut them open, remove the insides and weld back up) and then when the vehicle is remapped the tuner should program it so that the ECU knows that the DPF has been removed/drilled out etc. It's a very common procedure on VAG vehicles.

[Crasher]

Doesn't anyone feel even the slightest pang of guilt when they take out the filter which reduces the amount of carcinogenic PM10 particulate matter emitted by a diesel?

[gresty]

Doesn't anyone feel even the slightest pang of guilt when they take out the filter which reduces the amount of carcinogenic PM10 particulate matter emitted by a diesel?

Sorry but I dont :-D

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[DSG4ME]

I think a dpf is a bad thing,

If I have the principles right then you have a soot collector that then makes the soots finer and easier to get into lungs as the hairs in the nose etc won't trap the soots as well as they would if the soot was bigger still?

[Crasher]

The DPF takes the soot and turns it into ash which is below the critical size that makes the soot stick in your lungs, yes it goes in but it also comes out, unlike PM10 soot.

[DSG4ME]

Ok, thx for the explaination.

[Crasher]

In answer to the question you deleted, it is simple, I will not remove or disable ANY emissions control equipment of any type, I celebrate all the moves car manufacturers have done about the prickly pear of car emissions from Co to NOX and fuel consumption related Co2. The amount of fuel today's ultra-safe luxurious and twice as heavy cars use and how clean (than they take in) the air is they put out the tailpipe is simply amazing. As a none "fuel of the devil" example but still VAG stable, the current version of Bentley’s venerable 6.75 litre V8 is so efficient it will literally run on the hydrocarbons that came out of the tailpipe on the first version of this engine 50 odd years ago, that is nothing short of staggering. It is not that I am an enviro zealot tree hugging open toe and sandal cord wearing platted hair left wing weirdo (not my "at the weekend only" style, I prefer skin tight leather...) but I trust the boffin's who design and the government bodies that implement these devices to have got their sums right and that what they are doing is in our best interests health wise. Yes I was one of those idiots in the early 90’s who would rip a cat out in the expectation of realising 10's of horses only to be disappointed but it was a few years later that I realised that the lost power was due to many other factors such as lame cam profiles, restricted intakes and backed of timing/fuelling, not the restriction of the cat and modern 300 cell high flow cats flow so well you can hardly measure the pressure difference. On a DPF car, the back pressure is so low it is hardly discernible on a good one. No, DPF's are not perfect but I am now seeing 2008 cars with 125K on them with NO DPF issues, remember that EVERY VAG car (never mind all the other makes) has had one for the last four years and by my finger counting arithmetic that is one or two cars...only a few people whinge on here about issues and I see about one car a month with a minor DPF problem at work and we work on diesel cars in this age group three to four times a DAY! I have not had to replace one yet! Add to this that I am in business repairing and modifying VAG cars (a large proportion of which now have a DPF) and I could easily make serious money scaring the crap out of my customers with horror stories and shafting those people we can do a £60 forced regen for plus a new pressure sensor, into disabling the DPF sensing and poking the middle out of the filter for hundreds of pounds clear profit for me but I am not a con man, if people realised how easy it is for these DPF delete people to disable the DPF, you would be staggered, shocked and justifiably angry at the hundreds of pounds these band wagon companies are charging, but I will not do it or even sell the parts to facilitate it even though they are easily available to me. If it would not encourage owners or fly by night companies to do it, I would make the software available for download to all comers to have for free and install with a cheap and freely available cable, just to wind up the opportunists! Unfortunately that would just perpetuate the problem.

[TH Performance]

I'm not sure if this was aimed at me as I think I posted a question about dealers replacing the dpf - I certainly didn't delete mine, I edited a spelling mistake.

So, what do you suggest to a car owner when their dpf is full and a forced regen won't work?

What options do they have?

New Dpf at vastly inflated dealer prices?

[gresty]

I'm not sure if this was aimed at me as I think I posted a question about dealers replacing the dpf - I certainly didn't delete mine, I edited a spelling mistake.

So, what do you suggest to a car owner when their dpf is full and a forced regen won't work?

What options do they have?

New Dpf at vastly inflated dealer prices?

That is exactly why I went down this route. Main dealers are too overpriced on parts and labour. As in previous posts my dpf was filling up quick then went into limp mode and even a forced regen didnt last long. My car has gone over the 140k mark now but do not regret having the dpf removed at all.

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[TH Performance]

And that sadly is the problem.

Dealers charge a fortune for this. I have had a number of people call me saying the dealer won't sort the problem out under warranty (funnily enough it's not covered by many) after being grilled as to their driving style prior to the dpf failure.

The instant response is that you haven't followed the manufacturers guidelines therefore its your fault.

If they made dpf's cheaper, or with a removable core, then maybe people would go down that route.

All cars pollute fact. Some more than others fact. What is the cost to the environment when you build factories that make dpf's? Where's the cut off point?

Even the AA and BBC's watchdog know this is a problem and a simple clean or forced regen isn't going to solve the problem long term.



diesel particulate filter (dpf) | AA (http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/fuels-and-environment/diesel-particulate-filters.html)

BBC - Watchdog: Is your diesel filter out of kilter? (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/watchdog/2011/10/diesel_particulate_filters.html)

[Eshrules]

Without aiming this at anyone in particular:

DPFs are fitted to cars for good reason(s) - many of which Crasher has explained.

In the main - driving a vehicle with a DPF fitted as it's intended will serve you well. Drive the vehicle as it's not intended and it will not.

The common mistake many make is to see a turbo diesel driven vehicle, the low tax incentives, the super high MPG and buy based on that and that alone, without considering their journey types and the (long term) expense it may threaten. It's unfair to attack manufacturers for not replacing DPFs under warranty if the vehicle is being used for constant stop/start urban journeys.

If the expense of replacing parts on a vehicle is prohibitive, I would (as always) suggest getting a different car without those parts fitted, or one that is cheaper to repair.

If a turbo fails, do you remove it and remap accordingly?

Purposely removing emission reduction parts is selfish IMHO. You wouldn't blow second hand smoke on your child, or would you?

[martin1810]

I'm not sure if this was aimed at me as I think I posted a question about dealers replacing the dpf - I certainly didn't delete mine, I edited a spelling mistake.

So, what do you suggest to a car owner when their dpf is full and a forced regen won't work?

What options do they have?

New Dpf at vastly inflated dealer prices?

If the dpf is full and won't regenerate it can be removed, washed out and put back. tell the ecu it is a new cat and regen will work fine. Many people don't understand VAG dpf's. These are a combined catalyst and dpf and if all the sensors work correctly they operate just fine. Temp and pressure sensor variations often cause the dpf to fail regen and then it clogs up. VW often issue ECU flash updates to help with this.
People rarely need a new dpf, they need a garage with knowledge and skill.

[gresty]

Dpf do a good job, agreed, but in my opinion and situation this was the best route for me and IN MY OPINION have made my car better. Everyone has options and opinions but I now have a car with cosworth like power with vw economy and comfort.

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[TH Performance]

If the dpf is full and won't regenerate it can be removed, washed out and put back. tell the ecu it is a new cat and regen will work fine.

People rarely need a new dpf, they need a garage with knowledge and skill.

Why don't main dealers do this? They will replace it, they won't clean it.

There's too much money in replacement for them to start cleaning them.

I've seen people clean them with coke (the drinking version lol) and water.

I've seen the sludge that had built up inside them as you cannot guarantee that 100% of the dust/soot/sludge is removed.

[bmwdumptruck]

If a turbo fails, do you remove it and remap accordingly?

Purposely removing emission reduction parts is selfish IMHO. You wouldn't blow second hand smoke on your child, or would you?


If the part in question did its job without issues, then maybe you'd have a point. But it seems these things often don't.

Turbos rarely cause issues after only a few thousand miles, or by only doing local runs. So not a far comparison. My old Sharan was heading for a Turbo at 135k, my new one looks like it may have dpf issues at only 28k and 3 yrs old.

So yes, if mine does have one, and it turns out to be a problem, its going.

Lets get real about this, my sharan without a dpf is so much less of an issue than ANY of the crappy old bus's used to transport thousands of kids to school on a daily basis. If I was one of the worst offenders, but I'm bloody sure I'm so far from that.
If mine is the cause of my issues, removing it should also help the environment with the increase in economy, as I feel mine is 5-10mpg down on what I should be able to get.

[TH Performance]

The common mistake many make is to see a turbo diesel driven vehicle, the low tax incentives, the super high MPG and buy based on that and that alone, without considering their journey types and the (long term) expense it may threaten. It's unfair to attack manufacturers for not replacing DPFs under warranty if the vehicle is being used for constant stop/start urban journeys.

If the expense of replacing parts on a vehicle is prohibitive, I would (as always) suggest getting a different car without those parts fitted, or one that is cheaper to repair.

Purposely removing emission reduction parts is selfish IMHO. You wouldn't blow second hand smoke on your child, or would you?

Really???

So, don't buy a diesel car with a dpf if you want to make short journeys in urban areas?

If you can't afford to replace the parts you shouldn't have a car with a dpf - so buy a cheaper one or one without those parts fitted... which is worse and sort of like blowing second hand smoke etc.

[martin1810]

Actually you can petty much guarantee 100% clean because the regen will tell you when it runs. Dealers will never do messy, time consuming jobs because at their hourly rate, a new dpf makes more sense. Driving without a dpf increases the risk of lung cancer for everyone else. It is the fine carbon particles that are the problem. This means that an engine with dpf removed may actually be more polluting in terms of these particles, than an engine that never had a dpf. You can see some of this if you compare ecu maps between dpf and non dpf engines.
I am told that the best cleaner is ally wheel cleaner but I haven't tried it.
There is one other thing to consider. DPFs were fitted to engines first using edc16 bosch ecu's and later to edc17 bosch ecu's. Many of these contain a switch to allow you to turn off the dpf and then remove it. The engine map/fueling reverts to pre-dpf state. You can't do this with later bosch and siemens ecu's as they don't have a switch. This means remappers have to play with the ecu settings, so it's a 'suck it and see' approach. I bet none of these remappers have ever had a car tested to see what fine cancer causing particles are being released now the dpf is gone.

[Eshrules]

If the part in question did its job without issues, then maybe you'd have a point. But it seems these things often don't.

They do, in the main - I've yet to see any figures from any of the DPF replacement specialists to support their claims of mass failing. What I'd like to see is some decent research into the % of DPF failure and that further investigated to see what % of those that fail are mainly urban and mainly mway vehicles.


Turbos rarely cause issues after only a few thousand miles, or by only doing local runs. So not a far comparison. My old Sharan was heading for a Turbo at 135k, my new one looks like it may have dpf issues at only 28k and 3 yrs old.

They do and will continue to, so it is a fair comparison.



Lets get real about this, my sharan without a dpf is so much less of an issue than ANY of the crappy old bus's used to transport thousands of kids to school on a daily basis.

I'll agree with your point, in part - most buses are adopting hybrid technology and the emissions they emit are far less than they were a decade ago. I don't know enough about buses and their emissions to comment any further, but I'm pretty sure we're discussing cars and DPFs. If we're looking at world polluters, we need to look at the container shipping industry, but then we'd lose pretty much all imported products - including your car.



Really???

So, don't buy a diesel car with a dpf if you want to make short journeys in urban areas?

If you can't afford to replace the parts you shouldn't have a car with a dpf - so buy a cheaper one or one without those parts fitted... which is worse and sort of like blowing second hand smoke etc.

You've misunderstood - diesel isn't the only option available to car buyers is it?

[TH Performance]

Actually you can petty much guarantee 100% clean because the regen will tell you when it runs. Dealers will never do messy, time consuming jobs because at their hourly rate, a new dpf makes more sense. Driving without a dpf increases the risk of lung cancer for everyone else. It is the fine carbon particles that are the problem. This means that an engine with dpf removed may actually be more polluting in terms of these particles, than an engine that never had a dpf. You can see some of this if you compare ecu maps between dpf and non dpf engines.
I am told that the best cleaner is ally wheel cleaner but I haven't tried it.
There is one other thing to consider. DPFs were fitted to engines first using edc16 bosch ecu's and later to edc17 bosch ecu's. Many of these contain a switch to allow you to turn off the dpf and then remove it. The engine map/fueling reverts to pre-dpf state. You can't do this with later bosch and siemens ecu's as they don't have a switch. This means remappers have to play with the ecu settings, so it's a 'suck it and see' approach. I bet none of these remappers have ever had a car tested to see what fine cancer causing particles are being released now the dpf is gone.

There's a bit more to it than switching something on and off as you know. If a filter is blocked it needs sorting before you switch anything off.

As for showing what is being released into our atmosphere after a dpf is removed, where is the manufacturers data supporting this, surely there must be some?

Fact is most cars get more mpg after the dpf is removed therefore less fuel is used - less harm to the environment.

It's funny how manufacturers are producing hugely expensive filters which also use more fuel in the cars with them.

I can't see the oil companies being happy with people getting more mpg out of their vehicles, and manufactures not making vast profits from dpf's.

So, who do we believe?

Are the emissions that bad after the dpf is removed or whatever? Has there been a study to show that more mpg vs no dpf argument is proven one way or another?

Maybe there has been and I would love to read it. As long as its independent that is.

There will be debates about emissions vs mpg vs whatever forever.

What I can state is that every vehicle I have seen that has had a dpf delete, or bypass etc has returned better mpg which means less fuel used which means less harm to the environment.

[TH Performance]

Question?

What happens to the gunge that comes out if the filter after bring cleaned with water, alloy cleaner etc?

What happens to that polluted water?

Has anyone checked this out?

Again, that can't be good for the environment.

It's a no win situation I guess.

Just a thought.

[martin1810]

Having had friends die of lung cancer, I prefer the fine carbon particles to be removed from exhaust gas by the dpf even if it means using more fuel. ( although I'm not convinced it does).
I happily dpf delete files that have a switch as they seem to have been designed for this, otherwise the switch wouldn't be present. Newer files don't have a switch so I assume they are not designed to be changed and so I don't change them. Please note I am not arguing with anyone, this is simply my view.

[Quatrelle]

My Passat wasn't fitted with a DPF. Such things didn't exist when our Laguna was built. I bought diesels simply because they are so much cheaper to run in France, so I have no axe to grind.

However, what does intrigue me is that makers will sell 'town' cars with a DPF, and then argue the case if there's a problem.

Maybe a warning to the effect that 'This town car is not suitable for use in town'?

[Crasher]

I'm not sure if this was aimed at me

what do you suggest to a car owner when their dpf is full and a forced regen won't work?

What options do they have?

Sorry to make you think that was aimed at you, it wasn’t, if I remember rightly DSG4ME posted something which came through on the email notification but when I went to the post it was not there but I thought it was a good question even though I can’t remember what it was!

When the DPF is full I take them off and clean them out with Würth DPF cleaner and then put them back on and do a forced regen and then reset the ASH mass at about half the maximum. I have struggled to find any recommendations as to what these should be set to as I don’t feel setting it to as new zero is right. I decided 50% of max was fine and I have not had a single comeback. In the rare case of the DPF being damaged or beyond cleaning I would give the customer the option of a genuine DPF or aftermarket where possible from someone like B&M and their range is expanding all the time and their products are quite satisfactory.

Of course in both cases I fit a new pressure sensor and then calibrate it to the ECU.

As for other options, if they want it removing I politely tell them that we will not do this and point them in the direction of people like Shark.


My Passat wasn't fitted with a DPF. Such things didn't exist when our Laguna was built. I bought diesels simply because they are so much cheaper to run in France, so I have no axe to grind.

However, what does intrigue me is that makers will sell 'town' cars with a DPF, and then argue the case if there's a problem.

Maybe a warning to the effect that 'This town car is not suitable for use in town'?

The problem now is that all diesels from 2008 ish have to have a DPF of some sort so town car or GT, there is no choice. In London, commercial vehicles ALL have to have them by law no matter what which I am not sure about, I don't like retro laws, it strikes me as unfair but Boris is being bullied by the EU to get London air cleaned up which is why taxis are now coming under attack.

[TH Performance]

Thanks Crasher, I did post something and edited it on my phone, and it didn't show up which isn't unusual for tapatalk hence me thinking it was me.

Interesting option to offer people not wanting to have a dpf delete carried out, another angle to come from depending on what the customer wants and how effective this can be. I may test this out with a dpf to see how it goes.

I still remain unconvinced though if your are not entirely sure where to reset it to or how it's being measured.

As for TfL, i worked there in a previous life, the LEZ is not just about protecting the environment in London, it's a huge cashcow too, really huge just like the congestion charge!!! :naughty:

[DSG4ME]

In answer to the question you deleted, it is simple, I will not remove or disable ANY emissions control equipment of any type, I celebrate all the moves car manufacturers have done about the prickly pear of car emissions from Co to NOX and fuel consumption related Co2. The amount of fuel today's ultra-safe luxurious and twice as heavy cars use and how clean (than they take in) the air is they put out the tailpipe is simply amazing. As a none "fuel of the devil" example but still VAG stable, the current version of Bentley’s venerable 6.75 litre V8 is so efficient it will literally run on the hydrocarbons that came out of the tailpipe on the first version of this engine 50 odd years ago, that is nothing short of staggering. It is not that I am an enviro zealot tree hugging open toe and sandal cord wearing platted hair left wing weirdo (not my "at the weekend only" style, I prefer skin tight leather...) but I trust the boffin's who design and the government bodies that implement these devices to have got their sums right and that what they are doing is in our best interests health wise. Yes I was one of those idiots in the early 90’s who would rip a cat out in the expectation of realising 10's of horses only to be disappointed but it was a few years later that I realised that the lost power was due to many other factors such as lame cam profiles, restricted intakes and backed of timing/fuelling, not the restriction of the cat and modern 300 cell high flow cats flow so well you can hardly measure the pressure difference. On a DPF car, the back pressure is so low it is hardly discernible on a good one. No, DPF's are not perfect but I am now seeing 2008 cars with 125K on them with NO DPF issues, remember that EVERY VAG car (never mind all the other makes) has had one for the last four years and by my finger counting arithmetic that is one or two cars...only a few people whinge on here about issues and I see about one car a month with a minor DPF problem at work and we work on diesel cars in this age group three to four times a DAY! I have not had to replace one yet! Add to this that I am in business repairing and modifying VAG cars (a large proportion of which now have a DPF) and I could easily make serious money scaring the crap out of my customers with horror stories and shafting those people we can do a £60 forced regen for plus a new pressure sensor, into disabling the DPF sensing and poking the middle out of the filter for hundreds of pounds clear profit for me but I am not a con man, if people realised how easy it is for these DPF delete people to disable the DPF, you would be staggered, shocked and justifiably angry at the hundreds of pounds these band wagon companies are charging, but I will not do it or even sell the parts to facilitate it even though they are easily available to me. If it would not encourage owners or fly by night companies to do it, I would make the software available for download to all comers to have for free and install with a cheap and freely available cable, just to wind up the opportunists! Unfortunately that would just perpetuate the problem.

I deleted it because I hadn't seen what you wrote explaining it that's all, what I wrote had no meaning once I'd seen your other post. :biggthump

[Crasher]

not entirely sure where to reset it to or how it's being measured.

Yes this is a grey area, it’s just that I can't find a definitive answer and I suspect not all the ash will be removed so to avoid any possible trouble I set it at 50% which seems to work fine and allows tens of thousands of miles use without issue. Do you have a Würth rep come around? It is the only treatment of its type I have found and unlike other snake products it does work, you should see the crud that comes out. As for where this goes, well to the local sewage works and can't be anywhere as near as bad as the filth that gets washed off the roads from what cars leave behind such as oil, brake dust and exhaust soot.

DPF Cleaner 400ml | Cleaning and care materials | Würth UK Limited (http://www.wurth.co.uk/technical-chemicals1/cleaning-and-care-materials/special-chemical-cleaners/dpf-cleaner-400ml)


I deleted it because I hadn't seen what you wrote explaining it that's all, what I wrote had no meaning once I'd seen your other post. :biggthump

No problem, it was just that I remember it being an interesting question and I thought I could explain myself better than I already had done. :wiggle:

[DSG4ME]

Is this a goer Crash,

Is it possible for a cleanish dpf to report full due to an ecu countdown like a printer counts down on it's waste ink tank and shuts down regardless simply because the numbers say it's time to replace or clean?

[TH Performance]

So to recap the options are:

Dpf drilled out - ECU programmed so you never have to worry about the dpf again. Downside - possibly links to damaging health through emission however with the increase in mpg you get you use less fuel so less emissions again. There is no proof that the emissions are higher or lower without a dpf compared to the less emissions caused by less fuel being used - if that makes sense.

Clean the dpf out - doesn't remove the insides of dpf so emissions are less because dpf still in place. No guarantee that all soot/ash removed and no definitive way to reset the ECU to show what levels of soot/ash are still in there. Cleaning agents and or water (gunge) from inside washed down drains. Chemicals used in dpf cleaners are known to be harmful to aquatic life and water. Aquatic life can be in our food chain such as fish and animals that drink water.

There is absolute definitive answer as to what is the safest option.

Car manufactures do not agree with washing or drilling out - they just want to replace.

At least we have options to offer people however no one can safely say that one method is safer than the other.

[DSG4ME]

I will say one thing in it's favour, when a non dpf car collects soot in the pipe and you beans it there is a black fog behind you where the dpf stops that, BUT! the technology of it needs improving, that or the maintenance of it heavily reduced cost wise, perhaps an easy swap out dpf like changing an air filter would help with a fully and easily cleanable filter.

[Crasher]

Is this a goer Crash,

Is it possible for a cleanish dpf to report full due to an ecu countdown like a printer counts down on it's waste ink tank and shuts down regardless simply because the numbers say it's time to replace or clean?

The amount of Ash and the soot loading in a DPF is calculated by the ECU using data from the pressure sensor and parameters in the ECU so basically, especially with the Ash mass, the ECU is guessing.

What is needed is all cars to go over to Urea additive based Selective Catalytic Reduction such as Add Blue, that APPEARS to work from what I can see but is is hardly used by VAG.

I think commercial vehicles have filters that can be emptied but that does beg the question of what to do with the Ash and soot mixture. I seem to remember Mr Dyson working on something of this nature using his cyclone idea.

The Würth DPF cleaner is neutral and non flammable

http://eshop.wuerth.de/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/1401-B1-Site/de_DE/-/EUR/ViewOfferDetail-GetDocument/5861014500ZTD03.pdf?ProductRefID=5861014500%401401-B1&DocumentId=506BDD950A591480E10080000A0F87F2&MimeType=application%2Fpdf

And TÜV approved

http://eshop.wuerth.de/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/1401-B1-Site/de_DE/-/EUR/ViewOfferDetail-GetDocument/5861014500ZZF05.pdf?ProductRefID=5861014500%401401-B1&DocumentId=50C1593C0AFF1120E10080000A0F87F4&MimeType=application%2Fpdf

[TH Performance]

I love the disclaimer lol.

This advice is based on our own research and experience. It is presented in good faith and may be considered reliable. However, due to the diverse processing, application and handling possibilities the information provided may not be considered legally binding. The same applies to the information provided by our technical and commercial customer service.
We recommend the users of our products to perform their own tests in order to determine whether our products are appropriate for the respective use and environment. We guarantee the consistent quality of our products. We reserve the right to implement technical changes and improvements.

[Crasher]

They also say that about their hand cleaner...it is called shutz meine ashole

[gresty]

Adblue been on vehicles from 3.5 ton for years now and works great bringing emissions down to near zero. I think BMW are bringing out passenger cars with adblue on now. Its the way forward but DPFs are now being introduced to the new generation commercial vehicles.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

[TH Performance]

They also say that about their hand cleaner...it is called shutz meine ashole

Lol

[DSG4ME]

@ Crash

My mate has a T27 Toyota Avensis 2.0 D and I asked him if he'd seen it re-gen yet, his answer was no he'd not noticed it up revving etc yet and that's 32k of urban miles, not sure which system they use on it or if it gets a squirt of wee or not, the old Superb 2.0 TDi SSC engine code iirc had the wee bottle in the boot as the turdbo was located at the front of the engine and due to the design the dpf couldn't get hot enough to burn off on it's own.

[Crasher]

Synthetic Caprinae urine being sprayed willy nilly in the atmosphere is probably preferable to au naturel male Bovine excrement liberally applied...

[Quatrelle]

Synthetic Caprinae urine being sprayed willy nilly in the atmosphere is probably preferable to au naturel male Bovine excrement liberally applied...
I give up! My knowledge of modern engine technology is struggling here. Wee and turdbo were bad enough (what is their function?), but goats' pee aerosols? I did, however, spot the relevance of the male Bovine bit ;)

[Crasher]

Selective catalytic reduction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_catalytic_reduction)

[theskyfox]

Just my two cents. Before buying my car I was seriously worried about the prospect of having a DPF car. I had gone from a 1.9TDi non-DPF A4 to a 3.0TDi, and had gone as far as getting quotes for removal before the car had even been delivered! Jump forwards 3 years to present day...I've had no problem with the DPF (touch wood) have had a huge variety of driving (including driving a pitiful 4 mile drive to/from work on some days) and have no intention of removing it. I really think a lot of it is just internet scaredom.

That said..I'm glad I got one of the last of the generation that will be shipped without Ad-blue...but thats another story. Euro V forever!!!

-Andrew

[Crasher]

Euro V!, they are already planning 6.2! I totally agree with you though, the aftermarket has made a fortune destroying DPF cars emissions standards and as we know diesel pollution is now getting such bad press that there are going to be huge swathing speed limit cuts all over the UK in a desperate attempt to reduce the number of people they think will die early from diesel filth. I don't know about long live Euro V but long live the spark ignition petrol engine! Someone should have pushed Rudolf Diesel off of a ferry long before they did...

I wonder what adverse effect on the measured air pollution problems that people who have removed their EGR, DPF or badly remapped their diesel have caused, I bet it is a significant figure and those people should hang their heads in shame for the trouble the new measures will inflict on those that keep then clean and green or even better, drive petrol cars. The body responsible has been quite clear and unambiguous that it is pre Euro 5 diesels and modified diesels that are the reason for this and a little known fact is that those people driving along in a modern petrol engined car are actually cleaning and filtering the crap that diesels kick out!

[MDA123]

And what about the benzene from petrol fumes?

So why is road tax cheaper for diesels?

[SunnyBard]

I had gone from a 1.9TDi non-DPF A4 to a 3.0TDi, and had gone as far as getting quotes for removal before the car had even been delivered! Jump forwards 3 years to present day...I've had no problem with the DPF

No problems with mine either, it sees enough long journeys that it can usually get a regen cycle in without me noticing, a couple of times I've arrived home and when switched off the fan is running twenty to the dozen, so I presume I interrupted a cycle.

Chatted to the MOT tester about the new DPF regulations, he said basically so long as the whole thing hasn't been removed they wouldn't be able to tell if someone has striped the guts out of the DPF, I'd have thought the particulates would be higher in the exhaust, but seems like they're not high enough to fail anything.

[Crasher]

One by one then, here we go.


And what about the benzene from petrol fumes?

Yes Benzene is Carcinogenic BUT if a car is post 1992 (how many aren’t now? Not many) then they have a fully sealed evaporative emissions system (a diesel does not as it is not so volatile) that takes all the fumes from the fuel and burns it, turning it into CO2 which is just about the only tailpipe emission in a modern petrol engine car. The only time Benzene is emitted in normal use is during filling up AND if the petrol companies pulled their fingers out and invested in vapour recovery fuel filler fittings, this issue would be negated. If Benzene fumes do escape, they dissipate into PPB then PPT in seconds, go up and away into the atmosphere, and are no longer a danger to health. Particulate matter on the other hand does not dissipate and hangs around in the lower ground atmosphere until it rains and it is washed into the water table. The particulates tend to hang around on the pavement at about the same height as the average small child’s mouth....


So why is road tax cheaper for diesels?
Easy, some complete idiot decided to base car tax on the amount of CO2 emitted from the tailpipe because they had been told that CO2 was going to destroy the earth in a few years and we were all going to die....were doomed, were doomed-hello Darling...... That turned out to be complete ******** and so taxation now favours the fuel that can be proven (not suspected, alleged or any other vagueness) to KILL by causing cancer and other respiratory diseases.
As an aside, the petrol infernal combustion process also destroys any particulate matter that gets past the air filter, turning it into CO2 so petrol engines are actually actively cleaning up the crap left behind by a diesel as we drive along not giving children lung disease.

[theskyfox]

True story.

Was quite amusing at work the other day. One of the guys sitting near me was complaining that he has to pay just under £300 a year road tax on a 2.0 Petrol Honda Civic. He then asked me how much I pay...expecting me to cringe and tell him some horrific figure...instead his jaw nearly hit the floor when I told him its £200 a year on 3000cc's lol.

-Andrew

[MDA123]

Well, thanks for the science lesson (and there was me thinking I'm saving the planet with my 60+ mpg 2007 1.9 TDI Jetta!). Seriously though, as this thread is about DPF removal (my Jetta doesn't have one but my 2010 Passat 140TDI does) I had wondered why a certain well known monthly diesel car magazine repeatedly warned about this practice being illegal but carried several advertisements from companies that both remove and delete the things - even with the new MoT requirement. Mind you, how PC Plod would know whether the DPF was there or not is anyone's guess but it could mean the car is uninsured. But then again, how would the MoT tester even know if the DPF was still inside the casing?

Anyway, I think I'll abandon the idea of getting it removed from my Passat and next time maybe it's time to seriously think about going back to pet...I can hardly say the word...petr...petrol - that's it!

[zollaf]

tha magazines carry the ads because the companies pay for it. simples. no ethics, just think about lining their pockets. practice what you peach, paint the kettle and all that, a load of bs. thats one reason i don't read any magazines. (well, the odd copy of classic landrover).

[Teflon]

I'm surprised we've had 9 pages worth and no-one has mentioned (unless I missed it) the confirmation that the MOT test is going to close the gap and if you've removed any of the factory emission equipment it's a fail. New rules for MOT to test for diesel particulate filter - Press releases - GOV.UK (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-rules-for-mot-to-test-for-diesel-particulate-filter)

Yes, yes, if you just scoop out the insides it will fool the tester, as will the soon to be growing trade in fake, emply DPF replacement boxes. It'll fool a tester until he bangs a spanner on the box and hears it ring. And while we're at it, don't imagine that it will be too difficult to know if you had factory fit or not - big brother knows everything and they'll be rubbing their hands waiting for you. If you get your DPF into a tangle there are specialist firms who will wash out all but the most un-redeemable examples - why not spend you money on that?

I'm fully in agreement with Crasher, Eshrules, Martin and the others who think its dim / selfish / short sighted / anti-social to rip out a DPF that's there to do a job. So if you've had the job done and now have to splash out big style to have it reversed, I have no sympathy.

By the way, my Merc is Euro 6 and has a wacking great tank of AdBlue under the boot floor. I'd much rather have a spare wheel, even a space saver, but I'm more than happy to do my bit to save the planet for my grandkids. I hope I'm of the same mind when I'm marooned miles from anywhere with a flat tyre and that crappy tin of leak sealer doesn't do the job. Or when the tank runs out on Christmas Eve and it only allows me ten starts to sort out a refill before it throws a hissy fit and refuses to go any further.

p.s. I'd make remaps a test failure as well. If Mr VW has spent sqillions optimising your engine for the best economy and emissions, a couple of hundred quid's worth of tinkering with the brains isn't going to improve things. If you want a faster car, buy one and pay the road tax to go with it. If you want a more economical car, buy a Polo.


.

[zollaf]

there is no excuse not to carry a spare tyre. mounting kits are available that allow you to fit one almost anywhere. on the boot, like old rovers, on the bonnet like old landrovers, even on the roof or on the side. just no excuse.

[MDA123]

there is no excuse not to carry a spare tyre. mounting kits are available that allow you to fit one almost anywhere. on the boot, like old rovers, on the bonnet like old landrovers, even on the roof or on the side. just no excuse.


That's a great idea - how about putting two spare tyres on either side - no more supermarket carpark dings on the doors!

[theskyfox]

there is no excuse not to carry a spare tyre. mounting kits are available that allow you to fit one almost anywhere. on the boot, like old rovers, on the bonnet like old landrovers, even on the roof or on the side. just no excuse.

rofl. I just imagine hanging a spare tyre on the back of my car....would really add to the decor of the B8 trim no doubt! I've got a space saver that I've had to use twice now...such a piece of junk its unreal.

Also...Teflon...you can buy the bottles of ad-blue and refill it yourself....the system was designed to be refilled by the owner otherwise you'll be running back to the dealer every 6k miles or so. The small bottles are available in motorway service stations etc...and the big bottles are available online or from your dealer (I shopped around for this a few years back when I thought my car would have it)....so you need not get caught out on xmas eve!

-Anrew

[RichardSEL]

(snip) p.s. I'd make remaps a test failure as well. If Mr VW has spent sqillions optimising your engine for the best economy and emissions, a couple of hundred quid's worth of tinkering with the brains isn't going to improve things. If you want a faster car, buy one and pay the road tax to go with it. If you want a more economical car, buy a Polo. .

:1zhelp: Nearly choked on my falafal then...
http://i1361.photobucket.com/albums/r664/RichardSEL/AMDRollingRoad16JAN14_zps80ea1798.jpg[/URL]

No loss of MPG, passed MOT emissions, kept up with Carrera 4 recently. All stock apart from Superchips re-map

[Teflon]

Yeah, I guess you're right. All the manufacturers deliberately hobble their engines so that tuning firms can make a crust.

A car can make more power, without burning any extra fuel. No extra CO2 out of the spout, or at least so long as it still passes emissions no one cares. That HPFP upgrade isn't needed to push more juice in, it's just a nicer colour than the original. Of course, there will also be no impact on reliability or indeed anything else. When your turbo blows up or something else is goosed, it will all be down to crappy VW design and components.


23839


It was all so convincing until you claimed to keep up with a Carrera 4. Were you both stuck behind a bus?

Is that avatar is a picture of your girlfriend as well? Personally I prefer Rachel. By the look of your sig you've spent some money on your ride. As my old dad used to say, "never put a new chrome handle on an old s*** house door".

[RichardSEL]

Yeah, the K03 turbo, the original Bosch OEM-supplied plugs (now VW-recommended NGK), the Bosch OEM coils (now on VW-recall), PCV (VW-recall in the States), N75 valve (VW recall in yes, you've guessed it), diverter valve (now up-rated), HPFP follower (uprated) all were under-specified according to the Golf MkIV and V lot who take this engine up to some 400bhp (198bhp as out the factory). So there is some leeway there which is why it's "hobbled" to ensure minimum warranty recalls with these specified-to -a-lowest-price components.
Mind you, would'nt go as far as an APR Stage III which involves skimming the head as well as a K04 turbo and other inlet tweaks. If Tiptronic or DSG you'd have to get the box re-mapped as well

It was wet, the Carrera kept on loosing traction, I didn't take my ESP off. We both gave up when a Merc SLS just steamed past us both on the inside

Donna? She's on my "to do" list :flowers1:

[zollaf]

was hammond diving the beetle ?? :)

[Crasher]

was hammond diving the beetle ?? :)

You being rude about Porkers again, tut tut. If it was not for the humble Bug you would not have your Audi.

[zollaf]

nah, love em really. :)

[2008tdihighline]

Even some cars bought today aren't meeting euro 1 standards from 1993!

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk

[Crasher]

In which way? Which cars are you talking about?

[gresty]

Does all this really matter now cos VW spend squillions on making software to cheat on emissions testing, so having any modification to the engine/exhaust/emission control doesn't really matter. If VW can do it, well I don't feel so bad about doing it myself. http://youtu.be/0wuCRPdag7E


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Crasher]

VW "Tweaked" the NOX levels for the USA CARB area market, the levels did not need altering for the European market and no matter what they did, it does not mean you are justified in pumping out more Particulate Matter which is a known Carcinogen. Two wrongs do not make a right....

[gresty]

Ok. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Some are for and some are against the idea but I do not appreciate being preached to about wrongs or rights.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Gazwould]

I see both sides of the argument but personally will always ensure the non hassle , fault free , smooth unrestricted running of an engine .

[Crasher]

What about your and other peoples lungs?

[2008tdihighline]

Sod that! Gut it and crack on with dpf delete! Live for today, not for tomorrow.

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk

[Gazwould]

What percentage would you give to lung cancer deaths from diesel exhaust gasses ?

Who is most at risk ?

And what can you do to protect yourself from it ?

[Crasher]

Not specifically cancer but for ALL pulmonary diseases either caused by or exacerbated by Diesel pollution IN general, (not just particulate matter), the figures are varied but are put at between 7000 and 60000 per annum, in the UK alone...

One of the highest "at risk" groups for diseases caused by particulate matter <10ppm is young children, no so much because of their underdeveloped lungs but more specifically because these particulates hang around a couple of feet off the floor, just where young children are breathing.

[Q7newbie]

If your DPF is removed and the car is remapped correctly, there is no way of an MOT tester, insurer proving let alone penalising you for DPF removal.
Anyone with a brain and Google will have seen that neither DPF removal or remapping (if done properly) automatically equate to increased Co2 emissions.
As for the point that all remapping should be an MOT fail, how STUPID! what next? How about upgrading your brakes from OEM to carbon ceramics? Let's make that an MOT fail too. How about upgrading your lights from halogens to Xenons or LEDs? Shall we have those changes as MOT failures too.
Viva DPF Removal!

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

[Q7newbie]

DPF systems are not all they're purported to be anyway.
1. They are made with a claim of lasting AT LEAST 250,000 miles. Yet most never do.
2. They are extortionately expensive to repair and never done under warranty.
3. If car manufacturers want toake diesel engines and also have them put out acceptable levels of Co2 should not come at the cost or burden of a car owner. Why should a diesel car owner have to drive their car a particular way just so an unproven filter component that is not protected by warranty doesn't die?

Like I said: DPF remove to your hearts content my friends! And remap that engine until it can't take any more! 😉😉😉

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

[rowdy-999]

I'm not totally convinced on DPFs either, but as I'm aware DPFs dont remove CO2, but particles from the exhaust gas.
Having recently driven behind a few vehicles that are obviously going through a DPF regen, they smoke, and stink like anything!
Cant be good for the environment.

[Q7newbie]

Well, yes, particulates. Which are suspected to be carcinogen causing. But they are also claimed to cause a greenhouse effect by trapping Co2.

But ultimately, the choice to remove a DPF is only a secondary choice. The bigger choice is already being made for us all by the car manufacturers in how they are designing and manufacturing their cars

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

[Crasher]

Here is the tool required to check for DPF function.

On the left we have a 2008 Golf 5 GT TDI 140 without DPF and on the right a 2009 Octavia Scout with DPF, both outside in my car park as a type.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd20/Crasher1964/V%20sign%20soot_zpsugrkoyyo.jpg (http://s222.photobucket.com/user/Crasher1964/media/V%20sign%20soot_zpsugrkoyyo.jpg.html)

No, DPF's are not perfect but they work, you can't argue with the finger! And what you can't see is how thick the soot was on my finger.

The bit that really makes me want to weep is the one without the DPF is not subject to the recent emissions hysteria, the clean one is one of the affected cars, insane!

[Eshrules]

Removal of DPF devices is illegal in the UK and I'm firmly in Crashers camp on this one. As is VOSA.

If you don't want to be preached to, maybe don't try to discuss modifications that include the removal of emissions reduction devices from your vehicle.

It's irresponsible at best and seems to be a similar trend to the HID trend we saw a few years ago.

Various companies pop up to satisfy the demand and as soon as the practice is clamped down on, they all but disappear.

Proper maintenance of the vehicle and good driving practices are what help to ensure the fault free and smooth running of an engine.

Just my two pennies [emoji6]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[zollaf]

and if you only do short journeys where a dpf is no good, buy a small petrol engined car.

[garryw]

on a slightly different note, a bmw i had a few years ago went in for service, the guys told me they could remove the dpf, eliminate it in its program and also re map it, tbh it went bloody quick afterwards, and mpg improved, unfortunately, they didnt do a good job of welding the housing back up, the car actually caught fire while waiting at traffic lights.

i could smell it but couldnt see anything, it was the car behind who spotted it, and luckily had an extinguisher to hand, was put out with little damage, could have been a lot worse !!! be careful out there...

[Gazwould]

This could go on for years , my vote and prediction is..... HYDROGEN , we just need the infrastructure for it to take off.

[zollaf]

on a slightly different note, a bmw i had a few years ago went in for service, the guys told me they could remove the dpf, eliminate it in its program and also re map it, tbh it went bloody quick afterwards, and mpg improved, unfortunately, they didnt do a good job of welding the housing back up, the car actually caught fire while waiting at traffic lights.

i could smell it but couldnt see anything, it was the car behind who spotted it, and luckily had an extinguisher to hand, was put out with little damage, could have been a lot worse !!! be careful out there...
would probably have been the same performance increase if they had just mapped it and left the dpf in there.

[Gazwould]

Na, dpf is very restrictive .

[Q7newbie]

Gazwould is right. Remapping a car with a DPF is literally throwing away money. The DPF would pretty much counteract any benefits the remap would do because the DPF programming would clash/conflict with the remap coding. All your ecu would get is two processors "arguing" and throwing up fault codes... No real MPG gains or performance gains, and even a high risk of engine damage due to components not doing what they should, how they should, when they should.
DPF removal is a prerequisite to remapping a car that has a DPF.

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[RichardSEL]

Ok. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Some are for and some are against the idea but I do not appreciate being preached to about wrongs or rights.

I do. Especially when I was, all those years ago, wrong about the subject. I've done my research and learned...
I do not appreciate having my risk of lung cancer being increased by the "DPF-gutted" selfish

Cheers
Coffin Dodger
Blackheath
previously Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells

[Gazwould]

Only 6% of all lung cancer is caused by diesel exhaust gasses .

I don't actually know anyone within my area that has a gutted dpf only those on forums so again the percentage is small .

The most at risk is car drivers and passengers as NOx has a collecting build up effect in the interior space .

We can combat this by using an activated charcoal pollen filter which is oe in modern Audi.

Why doesn't the government discontinue ordinary pollen filters in favour of activated charcoal - they're not interested in your health and just want to tax your as$ .

Why do some of us suffer and others don't , it's called natural selection .

Affraid , suffering , worried about the air quality in your city - move to a town , rural village , the countryside or Switzerland.

[Eshrules]

The most at risk is car drivers and passengers as NOx has a collecting build up effect in the interior space .

We can combat this by using an activated charcoal pollen filter which is oe in modern Audi.

Why doesn't the government discontinue ordinary pollen filters in favour of activated charcoal - they're not interested in your health and just want to tax your as$ .

So, in lieu of a DPF - a diesel particulate filter, you'd have the gov't insist on the fitment of an activated charcoal pollen filter to filter out the same particulates that a diesel particulate filter would. Have I got that right?

So, in essence - filter the air for the cars passengers but not for anybody outside of it.

Isn't that a bit, well, backwards?


Why do some of us suffer and others don't , it's called natural selection .

Affraid , suffering , worried about the air quality in your city - move to a town , rural village , the countryside or Switzerland.

I hope I detect sarcasm else I'd be mightily offended at the suggestion that folk should have to move from the area they consider home because of irresponsible car owners sticking two fingers up to emissions regulations designed to protect everyone.

[Gazwould]

Like I said , this will go on for years .


Such a small percentage of gutted dpf's about so we are disagreeing about a negligible few .

Greater is the extra journey they have to take below .

I'm fed up for poor dpf owners who are conned that have a device that is clearly not fit for purpose and have to waste their own time and money and create unnecessary emissions by having to take it to the nearest motorway for a blast .

People outside have 4x less exposure than car occupants .

The highest risk is from older vehicles of lower than Euro 5 but that will sort itself out as we eventually renew .

What ever we do , there will always be poor quality air from shipping , factories aircraft and flatulence .

[Eshrules]

Such a small percentage of gutted dpf's about so we are disagreeing about a negligible few .

Depends. Just 1% of a million cars is 10,000 cars. That's not what I'd consider negligible.


Greater is the extra journey they have to take below .

I'm fed up for poor dpf owners who are conned that have a device that is clearly not fit for purpose and have to waste their own time and money and create unnecessary emissions by having to take it to the nearest motorway for a blast .

That's because people buy diesel cars fitted with DPFs and expect them to run perfectly when doing nothing but short stop/start city trips. It's been an issue with modern diesel engines and the requirement of a regular Italian tune up, long before DPFs came along.

It's a little shortsighted to suggest that owners who bought their car based purely on the MPG quoted without taking into consideration the maintenance required to keep them running properly were 'conned'.


People outside have 4x less exposure than car occupants .

People outside still have exposure to the emissions.


What ever we do , there will always be poor quality air from shipping , factories aircraft and flatulence .

There will be but I have faith in the human race and its efforts to improve air quality by reduction of harmful emissions.

Thankfully this thread is limited to DPFs.

[zollaf]

it will all end when vosa introduce roadside tests for dpf,s involving a probe up the tailpipe to test particulate levels, and a fail results in a car you are not allowed to drive..

[Crasher]

Only 6% of all lung cancer is caused by diesel exhaust gasses

Taking the Cancer Research UK figures that 6% means 2122 people die each year in the UK from Diesel pollution so if you would take my 6% that would make me happier. At the age of 13 I helped nurse my grandfather as he bubbled and gurgled, drowning to death from fluid on his lungs due to lung cancer, caused by years of smoking and workplace contaminated air, and 40 years later the sound still haunts me.

[Crasher]

Going back to Gresty's original question and assuming his car is a 1st generation 2L CR TDI and taking into account other comments about it not being possible, STEINBAUER tuning of Austria do a tuning box for this engine that is fully TÜV approved and works with a DPF.

https://www.steinbauer.cc/gb/products/passenger/volkswagen/passat/20-tdi-cr-eur5-1gen-103kw__3ms/9Z7

[Gazwould]

VOSA DPF testing when ?

They've been testing for red derv for years but I don't personally know of anyone that's been tested .

In the meantime protect yourself and family whilst driving and invest in one of these combi fiters ( CUK ) activated charcoal pollen filter.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ttqwRiHsdv4

If you don't and you're on the environmental bandwagon I would find it most hypocritical and you might as well suck on my Euro 3 , dpf, cat and egr less tail pipe .

[RichardSEL]

Only 6% of all lung cancer is caused by diesel exhaust gasses . <snip>

"Only"


I don't actually know anyone within my area that has a gutted dpf only those on forums so again the percentage is small .
The most at risk is car drivers and passengers as NOx has a collecting build up effect in the interior space .
We can combat this by using an activated charcoal pollen filter which is oe in modern Audi.
Why doesn't the government discontinue ordinary pollen filters in favour of activated charcoal - they're not interested in your health and just want to tax your as$ .

Coz that impinges on our personal freedom. Like its compulsory medication which is banned. Like Flouridation...


Why do some of us suffer and others don't , it's called natural selection .

It's called chance


Affraid , suffering , worried about the air quality in your city - move to a town , rural village , the countryside or Switzerland.

I am, what with being close to the centre of a London transport "hub". But not only for those reasons -- it's quality of life for me

[Crasher]

protect yourself and family whilst driving and invest in one of these combi fiters

We stock these

MANN-FILTER Online Catalogue Europe - Product Details Cabin Filter CUK 2939/1 (http://catalog.mann-filter.com/EU/eng/catalog/MANN-FILTER%20Katalog%20Europa/Vehicles/CARS%20%2B%20TRANSPORTERS/VW%20(VOLKSWAGEN)/Passat%20(3C2~3C5)%20~%20Passat%20CC%20(357)/2.0%20TDI%20BKP,%20BMP,%20CBAB,%20CFFB%20(T39062)/Cabin%20Filter/CUK%202939~1)

They are supposed to be introducing an even better version for right hand drive soon called the FreciousPlus Bifunctional cabin filter which we will stock and probably default over to on all applications as they become available.

Innenraumfilter FreciousPlus von MANN-FILTER (http://www.frecious-plus.com/en)

[zollaf]

VOSA DPF testing when ?

They've been testing for red derv for years but I don't personally know of anyone that's been tested .

In the meantime protect yourself and family whilst driving and invest in one of these combi fiters ( CUK ) activated charcoal pollen filter.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ttqwRiHsdv4

If you don't and you're on the environmental bandwagon I would find it most hypocritical and you might as well suck on my Euro 3 , dpf, cat and egr less tail pipe .

soon, very soon. they only test for red diesel if they know you are using it, same as with kerosene, and they know you are using it because its got a tracer in it that tells them you are using it.

[Crasher]

I wonder how they are going to test them for functionality? I suppose if the current soot testing equipment could tell the deference that is one way, you could not rely on the significant digit test as unscrupulous sorts would give the tailpipe a good rogering before the test.

[zollaf]

they will find a way. they started putting stuff in kerosene about 8 years ago. a friends aga started sooting up really bad, was cleaned, then happened again, so they were told that a new ingredient was added and they were sold a bottle of fluid to add to the oil to stop the sooting. it didn't affect oil boilers, just aga's and the like. its a tracer they can detect with a sniffer, so chances are that if you get dipped then they already know what you are running on.

[Quatrelle]

it will all end when vosa introduce roadside tests for dpf,s involving a probe up the tailpipe to test particulate levels, and a fail results in a car you are not allowed to drive..

Vosa doing roadside tests for Dpfs - that'll be the day! The UK government isn't providing sufficient money for enough police to do checks for mobile phone users, drunk drivers, drugged drivers and similar <removed>, so I'm fairly sure there won't be any for what, in the scheme of things, would be quite a long way down the list of priorities.

[zollaf]

maybe, but there will be a day, and that day will only come thanks to the arrogant people that don't give a thought to anything or anyone but themselves.
(please insert more suitable words as you read this ).

[RichardSEL]

Yes, the tiny minority of DPF strippers will justify even more stringent regulations on the already over-regulated motorist.

The Bugatti restorers have caused havoc in the classic car world by getting some wreck of a chassis and the rest in rust swept up into sacks, and making ... erm, "restoring" a classic with the few bits of bits but the majority new parts. Eventually DVLA's classics' desk had had enough and wouldn't accept restorer's assertions, instead disregarded what original VRM was linked to the VIN, and would only issue a "Q" plate instead with current road fund license to pay and an annual MOT.

If my current restoration had to be re-applied for today, what with its 4.2L Daimler Sovereign engine (instead of 3.8L original) I could face difficulties. All restorers of whatever marque have to be so pedantically original nowadays to avoid the DVLA more revenue generating trap. Not to mention the HMRC NOVA 5% import tax and £5 per day fine payable for each day of non-registration beyond 21 days after importation -- yes even from the so-called Common Market :zx11:

[zollaf]

the same has happened with landrovers. take an old tax exempt wreck , transfer the reg to a much newer vehicle and call it old.

[Quatrelle]

I don't have a problem with dpf roadside (or anywhere) checks. I've got one and intend to keep it. I thought MoTs were supposed to find these mods.

I'm a cynic, and my comment was that there are too many cheats (sorry Eshrules) on the road already getting away with things to expect dpfs being checked.

It's the same here in France, and other than for speeding, they aren't using ANPR yet.

Regarding restored cars, there were about 30 examples of a pre-WW2 MG two seater built at the factory. At the last count there are about 40 registered.

[gresty]

Going back to Gresty's original question and assuming his car is a 1st generation 2L CR TDI and taking into account other comments about it not being possible, STEINBAUER tuning of Austria do a tuning box for this engine that is fully TÜV approved and works with a DPF.

https://www.steinbauer.cc/gb/products/passenger/volkswagen/passat/20-tdi-cr-eur5-1gen-103kw__3ms/9Z7

No mine is a 2L PD engine BMR


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Crasher]

OK, then this is what you need, it is specifically for the 125Kw engine with DPF

29841https://www.steinbauer.cc/media/datasheets/steinbauer-datasheet-volkswagen-passat-20-tdi-ppd-168-bhp.pdf

[RichardSEL]

<snip>I don't have a problem with dpf roadside (or anywhere) checks.

Nor I :o


I'm a cynic, and my comment was that there are too many cheats (sorry Eshrules) on the road already getting away with things to expect dpfs being checked.

In Eire it's a requirment that, in addition to your Road Fund License disk, you have to show a sticker from your insurance co proving being insured. That'd save the cost of admininstering a mighty DVLA <--> insurers database. How much does that cost? And what about the years-ago-mooted MoT disk?

[Quatrelle]

In France you have a sticker for your insurance, and another for your MoT. That doesn't stop an estimated 1 million uninsured drivers, many of whom have lost their licences for speeding and/or drink-driving, bearing in mind that for a minor speeding infraction you only lose 1 point (here you start off with 12).

Similarly to the UK there are fewer and fewer roadside checks. Dpf removal doesn't appear to be the same problem as in the UK, but then we're into tuning, which is a whole new ball game.

[Crasher]

The system in Der Fatherland means the plates belong to a person and are tagged to the car, replaced each year when proof of TUV and insurance have been provided and are shown on the plate and I think it is cross checked against driving licence status.

[Quatrelle]

In France the law says you are not allowed to deviate in any way from the car's (or motorbike's) original mechanical spec, so 'tuning' here consists mainly of body skirts, spoilers etc. and noisy back boxes. Knowing the French I'm guessing that law is often ignored. Some years ago I had my 600 Bandit bored out to 884cc during a visit to the UK. It looked identical but was illegal, and unsaleable, here (didn't stop me riding it - when in Rome etc.).

My MG is tweaked, but I doubt if anyone here knows the original spec. anyway.

[Crasher]

Yes I have heard about that system, there was (still is) a worry that it is being proposed Europe wide along the same lines but that would **** off the German tuning industry which is huge and has some serious clout. In the USA they have the SEMA action network who work extremely hard to preserve their car modification industry which is massive, put together it makes the whole of Europe's tuning industry look like a garden shed operation, the scale is unbelievable. Obama has just passed a new law which will allow companies and individuals to build a limited number of replicas of old cars per annum and register them as new and not subject to current emission laws, it's a superb idea.

[Oldandugly]

Yep did that supper, no problems, they have to blind the cup.

[Eshrules]

Yep did that supper, no problems, they have to blind the cup.

Sorry, what?

Who had supper and why were they blind?

[RichardSEL]

The eagle flies high over Kraków tonight
>>>pass it on>>>

[Quatrelle]

When is a mouse if it spins?