Can VCDS be wired to an individual can-bus module for code changes?

[Alas]

Hi,
I am trying to update the coding on a 2007 aux heater which uses can-bus, so that I can add a telestart remote.
Unfortunately, I have a 1999 car, so I will not be able to connect the heater to the car's can-bus to make the coding changes with VCDS.
Does anyone know if it is possible to talk directly to the device with VCDS (connecting can-high and can-low (and power)) directly from the heater to the Hex-USB+CAN interface, or would I need to get a gateway module wired up?

[bearthebruce]

Some modules may communicate as you desire. Most require a gateway. Can't say anything without a scan telling us the part numbers and so on. Once we have the part numbers, then we go on the search to see what might be done.

[Alas]

Hi Bruce, thanks for the reply.
The heater in question is 3C0 815 005 N from a 2007 Passat 3C (but I cannot do a scan until I can get it connected to VCDS?).
Perhaps I need to connect a 120 ohm resistor across the can-high & can-low to act as an end of line terminator for this to work?
After I can get it connected, I believe I need to set the software code to 01012 to enable the telestart to control via the W-bus (I have already proved the heater works from the W-bus using a Webasto 1533 timer, and the timer also shows the telestart is communicating on the w-bus, but at present the heater does not come on with the telestart).

[bearthebruce]

the scan would tell us what else is in the car. I'll pass your info along to the more advance techs but I doubt this is enough for them to give much advice.

[Theresias]

Any control module from a current generation car will not work properly in a model like yours. If you truly have a MY 1999 that means that you very likely don't have any CAN in your car. If it's a MY 2000 you may have CAN but even then it's a different version which sort of talks a different language/dialect than the module you are trying to install. This is not a problem with VCDS nor will VCDS be able to fix this, you're simply trying to install something that was never meant to be in that year, make and model.

[Alas]

Hi Guys, thanks for the replys.
I guess I may not be explaining myself very well;
Yes, the car is a 1999 A6, which only has K-line, not Can-bus (so I know that I cannot connect the heater's Can bus connections to my car, and also why I could not see how a scan of my car would help, but I have attached it below anyway, just in case....).
So, what I was hoping is that the Hex-USB+Can interface could be connected directly to the heater Can-bus connector, while it is on the workbench, to let me change the heater's software coding to 01012 (this would then let me use the VW telestart remote control to start/run the heater using the heater's Webasto W-bus).
If this is not possible, I guess I would either need to find and wire in a 2007 gateway, or find a 2007 vehicle to temporarily connect the heater to make the changes?

Wednesday,21,September,2011,19:31:44:03753
VCDS Version: Release 805.4
Data version: 20090602

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chassis Type: 4B - Audi A6 C5
Scan: 01 02 03 06 08 15 16 17 18 34 35 36 37 45 55 56 57 65 67 75
76 77

Mileage: 280110km/174052miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: Redir Fail!
Part No: 038 906 018 FH
Component: 1,9l R4 EDC G000SG 2151
Coding: 00002
Shop #: WSC 02325
No fault code found.
Readiness: N/A
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 8E0-614-111-EDS.lbl
Part No: 8E0 614 111 B
Component: ABS/EDS 5.3 FRONT D10
Shop #: BB 24332
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 4B0-959-655-AI8.lbl
Part No: 4B0 959 655 G
Component: Airbag Front#Seite 0001
Coding: 00106
Shop #: WSC 02325
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 4B0-919-xxx-17.lbl
Part No: 4B0 919 910 L
Component: C5-KOMBIINSTR.UN4 D07
Coding: 01440
Shop #: WSC 00533
Part No: IMMO
Component: IDENTNR: AUZ8Z0W8030040
IMMO-IDENTNR: AUZ8Z0W8030040
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 35: Centr. Locks Labels: 4B0-962-258.lbl
Part No: 4B0 962 258 H
Component: Central Lock/Alarm D32
Coding: 04814
Shop #: WSC 02325
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 45: Inter. Monitor Labels: 4B0-951-173.lbl
Part No: 4B0 951 173
Component: Innenraumueberw. D03
Coding: 00002
Shop #: WSC 02325
No fault code found.
End ---------------------------------------------------------------------

[Theresias]

Sorry, but you're using an outdated version of VCDS. Please post a fresh Auto-Scan using Release 10.6.4 or Beta 11.8.0 or newer. Both can be downloaded from our website, the update is free for our customers.

http://www.ross-tech.com/vcds/download/current.html

http://www.ross-tech.com/vcds/download/beta/current.html

[Alas]

As requested:

Wednesday,21,September,2011,21:31:32:03753
VCDS Version: Release 10.6.4
Data version: 20110418

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chassis Type: 4B - Audi A6 C5
Scan: 01 02 03 06 08 15 16 17 18 22 34 35 36 37 45 55 56 57 65 67
75 76 77

Mileage: 280110km/174052miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: Redir Fail!
Part No: 038 906 018 FH
Component: 1,9l R4 EDC G000SG 2151
Coding: 00002
Shop #: WSC 02325
VCID: 61CDF37EC1D9
No fault code found.
Readiness: N/A
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 8E0-614-111-EDS.lbl
Part No: 8E0 614 111 B
Component: ABS/EDS 5.3 FRONT D10
Shop #: BB 24332
VCID: 1D358F8EBD21
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 4B0-959-655-AI8.lbl
Part No: 4B0 959 655 G
Component: Airbag Front#Seite 0001
Coding: 00106
Shop #: WSC 02325
VCID: 34634A2A2EAB
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 4B0-919-xxx-17.lbl
Part No: 4B0 919 910 L
Component: C5-KOMBIINSTR.UN4 D07
Coding: 01440
Shop #: WSC 00533
VCID: 2F694546C78D
Part No: IMMO
Component: IDENTNR: AUZ8Z0W8030040
IMMO-IDENTNR: AUZ8Z0W8030040
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 35: Centr. Locks Labels: 4B0-962-258.lbl
Part No: 4B0 962 258 H
Component: Central Lock/Alarm D32
Coding: 04814
Shop #: WSC 02325
VCID: 2E575842C087
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 45: Inter. Monitor Labels: 4B0-951-173.lbl
Part No: 4B0 951 173
Component: Innenraumueberw. D03
Coding: 00002
Shop #: WSC 02325
VCID: E0CB767A4AD3
No fault code found.
End ---------------------------------------------------------------------

[Theresias]

Thanks. :)

Back to your problem now.

The heater needs more than just itself to run properly, it needs to receive several different messages via CAN to operate. This does include ignition status, temperature values and others which your car simply isn't able to provide. So it's not about learning/enabling the remote control, it is about missing information that the module needs. I've seen several people trying the same as you do, none of them got it work properly at the end, some got it running partially but even then a lot of functionality was missing and they were constantly fighting with the system.

I understand that a heater like that is cheap to get hands on but there is a reason why nobody has successfully done this...

[Alas]

I agree that if I was trying to integrate the heater into the car's electronics, and have it run from the VAG electronics, I would have a problem.

However, the heater also has a Webasto W-bus input (as well as the VAG Can-bus), which can be used with Webasto Thermo Test diagnostic software to check all the heater components, and to fully run the heater to test operation. I have done this successfully on the workbench.

Thankfully, Webasto also sell a timer (model 1533) which has a W-bus output, which, again, also runs the heater (again, I have tested this on the workbench, no problem, no car attached, no can-bus needed, no ambient temperature sensor, just a 12V power supply, some diesel and the 1533 timer).

The Webasto Telestart (a VAG specific T91R model), also has a W-bus output, which I can see is working (the 1533 timer registers this by displaying a 'Telestart On' message), but unfortunately the heater does not turn on when the telestart is activated.
After doing some research, the telestart retrofit/installation guide for the Skoda Octavia (which uses the same Thermo-Top V heater) shows the Telestart only connected to the heater with the W-bus, and the instuctions to change the heater software coding to allow control from the telestart (changing the code from 00012 to 01012). The coding change has also been confirmed by some Touran owners on a Polish forum. So I would like to try changing the coding.
It is possible that lack of other information from the can bus (fuel level, ignition, outside temperature, etc) may be stopping the telestart from turning on the heater, but I won't know until I have tried changing the coding. If it fails, I have other options to operate the heater by remote, such as wiring a relay to the contacts of the 1533 timer start switch, or a Danhag module (but that requires further expense).
So, can I connect the VCDS interface directly to the heater Can-high & Can-low inputs to do the changes, or does it need to talk to the heater module via a gateway?

[Crasher]

I think you know more about this than most people do...