Console Bushes

[nick591]

My 56 plate 2.0TDI Sport SE estate is just in for routine (oil and pollen filter) service at 64K miles. Call from dealer saying front console bushes are split and need replacing. Cost £450 incl VAT. I bought car used from this dealer in March 2010 with 33K miles on it and a one yeaer VW used vehicle warranty. Car has full VW service history so far but this is a lot of money to pay out. :-( I understand that the console bushes are relatively inexpensive compared to the fitted cost and reading other posts I see that Powerflex bushes are better. I am a reasonably competent mechanic with a pretty full range of tools. Questions: 1) How difficult it is to replace these bushes, 2) Where might I find instructions? 3) I have seen that disturbed nuts and bolts must be replaced - is this correct?
Thanks very much.

[Crasher]

Yes the fasteners must be replaced. From VW the bush comes as a complete bracket 3C0 199 231 D at £53.47 each.

http://www.candrenterprises.co.uk/shop/powerflex-front-wishbone-rear-bush-vw-06-1.html

http://www.candrenterprises.co.uk/shop/superpro-uprated-suspension-bushes-vw-2005-2010-6.html (http://www.candrenterprises.co.uk/shop/powerflex-front-wishbone-rear-bush-vw-06-1.html)

The mount is easy to remove but really you should use an alignment pin, VW tool T10096 so maintaining the suspension alignment.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd20/Crasher1964/1K-3Cconsul.jpg

[nick591]

Thank-you Crasher for this helpful information. I found the T10096 pins at Laser tools but it is for a set of 4. This perhaps suggests that the whole subframe needs to be loosened when changing the bushes? Or are the bolts holding the console bush bracket the same ones that hold the subframe in place in that corner? Is the T10096 pin left in place when the job is finished or do you remove it? Thanks. I'm basically trying to make sure I don't get into a job I can't finish properly and trying to work out how difficult it is and what the bits will cost me. Do you know if the VW console bush price includes the replacement bolts?The VW dealer told me they have 2.2 hrs time chargeable for the job but rarely get it done in less than 3 hours.

[Crasher]

You need a set of four pins IF you are dropping the whole subframe down, only one for a single consul removal. You insert the T10096, tighten it up and then remove the other two bolts, the bush aligns itself in the consuls bolt hole which can be perfectly aligned with the thread or offset to a degree, this means that when you put the consul back, it is fitted in the same place as it was originally. The VAG price is consul only, it is not a kit. I can do one consul in less than an hour if using a new standard consul, removing a VW bush and fitting a Powerflex adds quite a lot of time cutting the old bush out but fitting the new Powerflex is very easy, the Superpro is a little more involved as it is steel sleeved.

[nick591]

Thanks Crasher. Does your business also supply the T10096 pins? It seems I would only need 1 to do the bushes one side at a time. or I guess I could make one from an M12 bolt with the head suitably tapered and with a smaller hex welded on to screw it in?

[Crasher]

You can order VAG tools from here tools.equipment@vwg.co.uk

[The-Borg]

Hi I know this is an old post but what are the torque settings for the console bolts

Thanks
Stuart

[DMitch16]

100mm length (under head) are 70Nm plus angle tighten a further 180 degrees. 110mm length (under head) are 70Nm plus angle tighten a further 90 degrees. These settings are for new bolts. Never use these settings on existing bolts as they would have already yielded when originally tightened.

[The-Borg]

Hi Mitch

Thanks for the information I did get new bolts with bush.

Stuart

[woodworm6]

I have been replacing my console bushes on a Touran. one of the bolts sheared off. I gather the is quite common. Trying to remove the sub frame part that the bolt is in. All bolts out but it is moving but stuck. Do I have to jack up the suspension strut the release the sub frame (console)?

[DMitch16]

I have been replacing my console bushes on a Touran. one of the bolts sheared off. I gather the is quite common. Trying to remove the sub frame part that the bolt is in. All bolts out but it is moving but stuck. Do I have to jack up the suspension strut the release the sub frame (console)?

The subframe will be held on by several things in addition to the 6 main mounting bolts:-

Steering linkage / column connection (steering rack attached to subframe and loom held in channels and also connected to fuse box and earth points), ball joint on end of wishbone, drop links (anti roll bar is bolted to the subframe), gearbox 'dog bone' mount also connected to subframe as is exhaust / DPF pipe.

I would not simply remove ALL bolts as some keep other stuff attached. Presumably you know the subframe only has 6 main mounting bolts? If you hadn't realised then you won't know the proper way to drop the subframe which is more involved than just unbolting it. You'll also need T10096 subframe alignment pins as the subframe should go back on in exactly the same position to avoid wayward handling afterwards.

[woodworm6]

I only need the remove the console part at the end of the sub frame not the whole sub frame

[Crasher]

The consul is only held on with three bolts but you have to release the wishbone front mount to drop the wishbone down, remember every single bolt is one time only and MUST be replaced. If you release the consul without the alignment pin in place, you will have to get the alignment checked as you could change the castor angle so castor, camber and tracking in that order.

[Hass192009]

Hi is it must to replace all pins ?

And please what if i did not replace and used the old one , what i will feel while driving or what will happened generally?


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[DMitch16]

Hi is it must to replace all pins ?

And please what if i did not replace and used the old one , what i will feel while driving or what will happened generally?


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Worst case scenario: If you reuse the pins (bolts) and you torque them again according to their normal levels then you run the risk of stretching them further than their designed tolerances therefore weakening them to the point of imminent failure. If any of the subframe main bolts, of which one of them affixes the console bush, fails then potentially it could stress the remaining 5 causing them to also fail and the subframe to separate from the chassis. If driving quickly when this happens then it would be a dangerous situation to be in.

The driving experience will be the same until you suffer a failure. It may be sudden and could exhibit many symptoms such as wayward steering, suspension noise, and pulling or vibration through the steering wheel.

In reality this would be a rare occurrence but nevertheless a possibility. For your own safety and that of passengers and other motorists / pedestrians you should renew the bolts where specified.

[Hass192009]

Worst case scenario: If you reuse the pins (bolts) and you torque them again according to their normal levels then you run the risk of stretching them further than their designed tolerances therefore weakening them to the point of imminent failure. If any of the subframe main bolts, of which one of them affixes the console bush, fails then potentially it could stress the remaining 5 causing them to also fail and the subframe to separate from the chassis. If driving quickly when this happens then it would be a dangerous situation to be in.

The driving experience will be the same until you suffer a failure. It may be sudden and could exhibit many symptoms such as wayward steering, suspension noise, and pulling or vibration through the steering wheel.

In reality this would be a rare occurrence but nevertheless a possibility. For your own safety and that of passengers and other motorists / pedestrians you should renew the bolts where specified.


My story is as follows:
I have tiguan Rline 1.4 tsi
I have replaced Almost all the suspension
1- the front control arm Bushes (both front and rear).with Lemforder brand(made in china)
2- sway bar bushes (although the bracket of it was welded) but my mechanic separate it and re connect a gain.with bushes called febest
3 - sway bar link.
4-front Shock absorber. Original from
5- shock absorber mounts kit. Original

After all i was expecting that my car will be as new . But i am now so disappointed because i fell as following:

1- at high speed i feel the car is not stable.
2- i feel the steering is not firm as before especially day time as i am living in UAE
3- sometimes feeling vibrations on the steering wheel and sometimes no

Right now I do not know what is the reason
I am thinking
1-may be the control arm bushes quality is bad because it is not the original.
2- may be because i replaced the sway bar bushes by this way.
3- and now i discovered your post about pins
So that’s adding new idea


Please i am suffering with that car if any body can tell me what to do please guide me .

Also if there is any one here know any garage in UAE can dissolve my problem i will be appreciated.




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[Hass192009]

You need a set of four pins IF you are dropping the whole subframe down, only one for a single consul removal. You insert the T10096, tighten it up and then remove the other two bolts, the bush aligns itself in the consuls bolt hole which can be perfectly aligned with the thread or offset to a degree, this means that when you put the consul back, it is fitted in the same place as it was originally. The VAG price is consul only, it is not a kit. I can do one consul in less than an hour if using a new standard consul, removing a VW bush and fitting a Powerflex adds quite a lot of time cutting the old bush out but fitting the new Powerflex is very easy, the Superpro is a little more involved as it is steel sleeved.

Hi carsher
Do i have to replace bolts with original new bolts or specific ones has special features?


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[Crasher]

Almost every fastener on a modern VAG vehicle is a one time on Torque To Yield (TTY) and special purpose in their deign and tensile strength (usually 10.9) and anti corrosion tread as many go into aluminum, I know rust isn't an issue for you but it is for us, plus most have built in washers, replace them with generic ones and you may get away with it... you may not.

[Roverfan]

Much of this vag corrosion would be global due to the metals used. Working on my golf recently rear control arm bushes were welded to its bolt (by
dissimilar metal corrosion) and so was the aluminium handbrake rivets which go into the trailing arm. This type of corrosion happens when there is a direct connection between dissimilar metals
Hence since the front subframe is some sort of aluminium alloy I would rather reuse old bolts rather than use unknown steel bolts.
Re using these tty bolts is a controversial but common practice

[Roverfan]

You need a front and rear suspension, ball joints and bushings check. So if your control arm bushings were due a change others will be in a similar condition.
Also check wheels, tyres, wheel bearings, drive shaft, Engine mounts, flywheel etc for vibration concerns.
The worse it's feeling to drive the easier it will be to spot under inspection. It's hard to say without an inspection

[Crasher]

I don't think cars in the United Arab Emirates suffer a great deal of corrosion...

[Roverfan]

I don't think cars in the United Arab Emirates suffer a great deal of corrosion...
The type of corrosion I was talking about does not need water, it only needs contact between the different metals. It corrodes metals/alloys that are usually known to be non rusting/corroding.

Since vw have used these different alloys, it's now become imperative to match fasteners that are designed for the job or create a barrier which prevents direct contact. This is what I have seen on the rear control arm bushes for example. They have to be brutally cut off after a few years in situ. Also seen it with other bits which have also attained a welded like state. Apparently it is dissimilar metal corrosion hence my fear of what the rate of corrosion would be using unknown fasteners since each reaction will be different.


Are you crasher from HJ, you helped me out loads about 15 years ago.

[DMitch16]

Since vw have used these different alloys, it's now become imperative to match fasteners that are designed for the job or create a barrier which prevents direct contact. Apparently it is dissimilar metal corrosion hence my fear of what the rate of corrosion would be using unknown fasteners since each reaction will be different.

A great deal of the experienced members in these forums are well aware of the type of metallurgic reaction between the collars in the bushes and the steel TTY bolts. It is not the car manufacturer but the parts manufacturers. My barrier is thick copper grease which limits the fusion of the dissimilar metals. The rear control arms I cut off less than 6 months ago after removing the complete rear subframe took 8.5 tons of pressure to press out the fused bolt piece, but it DID press out so the bond is not like that of welding and not as permanent. Still a royal PITA though as it did mean subframe removal and the renewal of an additional 4 TTY bolts (the hat type). The new control arms had STEEL collars and therefore I would not expect the same reaction again, if the car is around in another 12 YEARS! But I still applied my copper grease barrier as these were the adjustable arms.