Pad Squeel When Turning Right

[jonathanfenton]

Title says it all really.. Noticed that the pads on the nearside front wheel squeel when turning right. Cant replicate it from a standing start seems to be more when actually driving at slow to moderate speeds... cant say i have taken any high speed corners recently... Any ideas?

[Lofty79]

its just the pads rubbing lightly on the discs when the frame flexes under cornering duress. Take the pads out and get a wire brush to remove any old rust and dust from the recesses and check the pad can move quite freely in there but not slop around of course as they will rattle. Also make sure your anti squeal shims are present too, some people just bin them but they do work. Hope that helps its a half hour job, may aswell just change pads if theyre a bit down.

[jonathanfenton]

Changed the pads last night for some brembo's there starting to bed in, just shaping them selves to the contours of the disc so will have to see how it goes. Annoyingly the alloy wheel key has worn out due to the lovely people at the tyre fitters and their windy guns! so couldnt do the rears. Its ok because my local Audi Dealer only wants £32+vat for a new one! grr... :zx11:

Thanks for your assitance.

[Lofty79]

That should sort it out nicely. I would just drill out the old ones and buy a new set independantly as that is very steep at 20% vat too

[jonathanfenton]

I debated this but decided i would do more damage than good... I will just have to tell the tyre shop next time to not put the bolts on with the windy guns and wait for the look of disgust from them having to find a wheel wrench!

[Lofty79]

They will utterly ignore you, thats why i learned to work on cars myself. 3 times at one dealer i had to get them to order me a new engine tray as they binned mine each time even with my express request to replace it. I have had two cars with engine trays that lasted the life of the vehicle and the engine bay was so much more protected from our harsh salty scottish roads

[jonathanfenton]

I agree i much prefer to keep the cover on. The tyre fitters wont have much choice becuase i'll be standing over them like a hawk like i usually do! but never realised that they would be costing me money by there lazyness... If they want my continued buisness then they will tighten the nuts by hand and put copper grease on the threads.

[alankru]

I agree i much prefer to keep the cover on. The tyre fitters wont have much choice becuase i'll be standing over them like a hawk like i usually do! but never realised that they would be costing me money by there lazyness... If they want my continued buisness then they will tighten the nuts by hand and put copper grease on the threads.
From what I have read, you should never put lubricant on the nut threads because you are reducing the friction involved and this can lead to over tightening of the nut. The stated torque value is for dry nuts. Besides all the tyre fitters I have been to do not torque the nuts correctly (if at all). According to my torque wrench instructions (and others that I have read), you are supposed to pull the torque wrench towards you in order to apply even pressure until it clicks. Unfortunately, I haven't come across a tyre fitter that does it like this and instead they push down on the torque wrench in a sudden movement, jerking it. It can't be guaranteed that the correct torque is applied like that. Furthermore, the torque wrench is more prone to damage by jerking it and consequently it won't be an accurate tool for long (compounding the problem). Lastly, there is no guarantee that the tyre fitter is getting the wrench calibrated on a regular basis. Because of this, I now re-torque all of my wheel nuts myself after the tyres have been taken off by someone else.

[Lofty79]

I too like dry nuts! saves em gettin smelly

[vwcabriolet1971]

From what I have read, you should never put lubricant on the nut threads because you are reducing the friction involved and this can lead to over tightening of the nut. The stated torque value is for dry nuts. Besides all the tyre fitters I have been to do not torque the nuts correctly (if at all). According to my torque wrench instructions (and others that I have read), you are supposed to pull the torque wrench towards you in order to apply even pressure until it clicks. Unfortunately, I haven't come across a tyre fitter that does it like this and instead they push down on the torque wrench in a sudden movement, jerking it. It can't be guaranteed that the correct torque is applied like that. Furthermore, the torque wrench is more prone to damage by jerking it and consequently it won't be an accurate tool for long (compounding the problem). Lastly, there is no guarantee that the tyre fitter is getting the wrench calibrated on a regular basis. Because of this, I now re-torque all of my wheel nuts myself after the tyres have been taken off by someone else.

The marginal over torque error due to the anti-seize copper paste is far exceeded by the high removal torque of un-protected rusty bolt threads. Indeed the over torque error could easily be exceeded by the torque wrench error. If the subject of torque values is researched in-depth, you will find that even different plating coatings require different torque values but the differences are small. I once worked for a Co. that had every stainless screw for a special application electro-polished in order to accurately control the surface finish of the screw threads in order to give consistent clamp loads. VAG do not publish different torque values for the black oxide finished bolts when compared to the zinc coated bolts as the differences are small and the torque/ clamp load is not super critical.
The torque value is only specified in order to achieve a certain clamp load . The variations in thread machining surface finishes ( rough/smooth etc) have a greater effect than anti-seize paste. This is the reason why critical clamp loads are controlled by the stretching of the bolt rather than a torque value ( "stretch bolts") and sometimes oiled threads are specified.
I've used copper anti-seize paste on all my car ( & my families') wheel bolt threads for more than 20 years without any problem - never had any stripped threads , loose bolts or bolts I couldn't remove using the std. supplied wheel wrench. It's important not to get the paste on the underside of the bolt head. I suppose if you wanted to be 100% accurate as to the torque applied to the bolts you could marginally reduce the torque with the paste but you would be neglecting other factors that have a bigger influence on the clamp load.
I've been very fortunate in the past in that I could get my torque wrenches (5X - various capacities) calibrated at work . How many DIY torque wrenches are properly calibrated ? Indeed how many are accurate when 1st supplied ?
Professional "Facom" ( French ) torque wrenches used to be garanteed for life and could be repaired / re-calibrated FOC if returned to the local supplier if faulty- not sure if this is still the case.

[alankru]

Interesting, out of all of the articles I've read and instructions, I found this article: http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=107 In one sentence it talks about not using anti-seize lubricant, and in the next it says to only apply to the threads if doing so and to be careful with it. I'm guessing it is saying what you are in that don't apply it to the underside of the bolt?

How many DIY torque wrenches are properly calibrated ? Indeed how many are accurate when 1st supplied ?
Professional "Facom" ( French ) torque wrenches used to be garanteed for life and could be repaired / re-calibrated FOC if returned to the local supplier if faulty- not sure if this is still the case.
When I was looking at buying my torque wrench, the "pro" torque wrenches come with a calibration certificate for the torque wrench, so they are calibrated before sale. I have a Laser torque wrench and it can be returned for calibration again (for a fee of course).

[vwcabriolet1971]

The article referenced in the previous post echos my statement/experience exactly which is reassuring ( never seen it before- honest). It does not say don't use anti seize paste but does warn users not to get it on the underside of the bolt or the wheel bolt seating. viz:-

"Wheel lug torque specifications are for clean threadsthat are free of dirt, grit, etc. If applying an anti-seize lubricant, it isimportant to note it can be applied only on the threads of nuts or bolts. Thelubricant must not be used on either seat of the hardware of the wheel. Withthe seat being the main point of friction where torque is measured, extremecaution must be used if an anti-seize lubricant is applied to the threads asexcess can either drip or be pushed onto the lug seat resulting in inaccuratetorque values".

[alankru]

Yes, I looked at lots of articles and torque wrench instructions and they all said not to use anti-seize lubricant. That was the only article that I found out of all the other articles I looked at.
Perhaps that's the thing; that you have to be so careful with not putting too much on, that the advice is not to put it on at all. I know that when I did it once a number of years ago, I found that it did tend to get pushed onto the lug seat whilst trying to put the nut into the hole. I subsequently read the various advice and stopped putting it on.
Thanks for your input vwcabriolet1971 and apologies for taking the thread slightly off topic. :)

[jonathanfenton]

Tidying up old posts and found this one. Put brembo pads on and cleaned up all the sliding surfaces and bolts. Seems ok now. Just started to develop a squeak but guessing that the hand carwash place I use has jet washed the copper slip off so it's started to vibrate slightly. Interestingly my mk4 golf had little anti sweep shims that I put on top and underneath the pads... These have just one large spring in the outer pad... Seems to be a worse design.