Lumpy BRE engine

[Misterm]

Hi guys, my 56 A6 has just developed a fault. Between 1500 and 2000 revs the car runs lumpy, the revs fluctuate an dthe car kangaroos down the road irrespective of speed. Once I get up to 2000 and beyond no problems. Took it to VW specialist who can find no fault codes so unplugged the EGR valve. Car drives ok, no kangarooing, but tick over between 1500 and 2000 still feels lumpy. New EGR is 350 fitted but not 100% sure it is that. The only other suggestion is that it could be the balance shaft. Car has done 54000 miles, has no fault codes or warning lights on. It did have a front ender 2 years ago which bent the drive shaft but has done 14000 trouble free miles since then. Anyone got any ideas? I am considering leaving the EGR unplugged, is this wise?

[Dpanic]

Leaving the EGr valve unplugged, would put the car into limp mode. Mine failed a few weeks ago and 40-50 was the max - no power at all, valve and vac hose replaced and now normal.

If you have power up the range above 2k then its not this, cluch or Fly wheel issue?

You mention - 'bent the drive shalf', it could be at low revs it's virbrating?, but .. wouldn't it get worst the fast you go.

Sorry - might require a AUDI visit to check out

[joshA6]

Hi guys, my 56 A6 has just developed a fault. Between 1500 and 2000 revs the car runs lumpy, the revs fluctuate an dthe car kangaroos down the road irrespective of speed. Once I get up to 2000 and beyond no problems. Took it to VW specialist who can find no fault codes so unplugged the EGR valve. Car drives ok, no kangarooing, but tick over between 1500 and 2000 still feels lumpy. New EGR is 350 fitted but not 100% sure it is that. The only other suggestion is that it could be the balance shaft. Car has done 54000 miles, has no fault codes or warning lights on. It did have a front ender 2 years ago which bent the drive shaft but has done 14000 trouble free miles since then. Anyone got any ideas? I am considering leaving the EGR unplugged, is this wise?

I have a similar problem with the same engine but it is very sporadic. Had the car a year and it does thi now and again. I thought it was a boost leak, but a lot of specialists say that it's the start of the dual mass flywheel wearing out. I think a lot of owners are having this problem, but noone has a definitive cause.

When you say the car runs rough, what do you mean? Mine never runs rough, but when it kangaroos I get a cha cha cha sound.

Are your symptoms the same?

[Misterm]

No nasty sounds just an uneven wobble like the engine is being starved of fuel. Spoke to a couple of mechanic mates who reckon EGR valves seizing is common due to shortish journeys clogging them up. As it happens I have found a new valve on Ebay for £166 so may just have a go at replacing it myself. Does seem to be running much better without EGR plugged in but its only a short term fix.

[joshA6]

I can't see how having the connector unplugged is going to do anything other than throwing up a fault code. It may be the placebo effect.

Why bother outright replacing the EGR valve at this stage? You can easily take it apart and clean it with carb cleaner to free it all up. You just need a new gasket when refitting.

If it then comes back, then change the valve.

You may be on to something, as the last time I tried to fix this, I changed the inlet pipe from the inter cooler to the inlet manifold which just happens to be the inlet to the EGR valve.

Can we try and keep this thread going with other BRE owners because it is really common problem and nobody has got to a definitive answer to resolve

[coolraj003]

Right..i have not much experience with the A6 yet but i have a bit of experience with diesels and EGR. Now I didnt seem to see any issues with my 54 reg mazda6 2.0tdi when i disconnected the egr.

Obviously engines on different cars are different in the way they function but teh EGR valve should have same function...more orless.

I had Engine Management Light come on my dash when i first got mazda. not knowing what it was i called AA out and he cleaned the valve put it back on and cleared the faults. He told me that this valve is not an EU requirement. It is only necessary in Japan. If I blank this valve I wont get the light coming back on and it might even improve the engine performance. It does not in any affect anything in the car. I didnt do it at that time but the EML came on and off so many times during my ownership that I lost the count. One day i just decided to blank it out. Got the gasket out and used it as a template as the blanking gasket. Did it and it ran fine for more than a year. EML came on once a while but always went off without any issues.

Never made the car go in limp mode. In fact I went to Europe with the EML on, so whether it is possible to just blank the bugger out to solve this problem is to be seen. Somebody must know about it surely. WOnt trust Audi as they would never let you do it otherwise they ll loose out the poor customers who are forking out on new EGRs and they are in the money.

Raj

[joshA6]

Right..i have not much experience with the A6 yet but i have a bit of experience with diesels and EGR. Now I didnt seem to see any issues with my 54 reg mazda6 2.0tdi when i disconnected the egr.

Obviously engines on different cars are different in the way they function but teh EGR valve should have same function...more orless.

I had Engine Management Light come on my dash when i first got mazda. not knowing what it was i called AA out and he cleaned the valve put it back on and cleared the faults. He told me that this valve is not an EU requirement. It is only necessary in Japan. If I blank this valve I wont get the light coming back on and it might even improve the engine performance. It does not in any affect anything in the car. I didnt do it at that time but the EML came on and off so many times during my ownership that I lost the count. One day i just decided to blank it out. Got the gasket out and used it as a template as the blanking gasket. Did it and it ran fine for more than a year. EML came on once a while but always went off without any issues.

Never made the car go in limp mode. In fact I went to Europe with the EML on, so whether it is possible to just blank the bugger out to solve this problem is to be seen. Somebody must know about it surely. WOnt trust Audi as they would never let you do it otherwise they ll loose out the poor customers who are forking out on new EGRs and they are in the money.

Raj

What age was your Mazda? The newer EGR valves on Audi are electronic controlled. Older Audi's were mechanical and therefore easy to blank off.

As I said before, we need to get to root cause of the shuddering. It's only an assumption its the EGR.

I will clean my one out over the next few weeks to see.
Also, I will take all of the sensor readings and will post them up. It would be good for someone with the same engine without the fault to do the same so we can rule out sensor issues.

[coolraj003]

Mazda was a 2005 on 54 plate so it wasnt that old at all. Everytime the EML code was read it used to day not enough pressure from the sensor or on the similar lines. Got it cleaned couple of time but after that I got a bit peeved off and didnt bother. O know it was a risk that i was taking as it could have been anything else but i kinda figured out the speeds and gear arrangements when the EML would come up so never really had any issues. It would have been an electronic valve cos it was frigging expensive to replace. About £200+. Done by the previous owner on that car so i thought its not something that would sort the issue out. Dont know why they put it on when its only a legal requirement in Japan. EU has no regulation about having the EGR valve as far as I ve been told. Makes you think!

Raj

[joshA6]

OK. Can we keep this thread clear and stay on topic to lumpy BRE engines going forward. Hopefully we will get to answer soon that benefits everyone with this engine

[Misterm]

Hi guys, my mate who is a mechanic says that unplugging the EGR valve keeps the valve shut thus restricting the engine. This stops it putting too much exhaust gas back into the mix which affects the combustion. I am intending on replacing the EGR when I get home from holiday.

[David Walker]

Hi all. I'm new here but I've had a C6 BRE for almost 3 years.

I had the 'cha cha cha' sound between gear changes a while ago. Its the drive shaft for the oil pump, its a hex shaft and when it rounds off completly you'll loose oil presure and blow the turbo so if you get an oil presure warning, STOP THE ENGINE! You have to change the balance shafts and oil pump to fix it £700ish + fitting or get the hex shaft welded in place like i did (still cost £700ish cos I poped the turbo).

EGR - I also have a landrover with a BMW engine. It was a 10 min job to bypass the EGR with a part costing £30 on fleebay. It has better performance and economy AND passes the MOT! It does'nt look quite as simple on the C6 tho.

I love my A6, I've upgraded loads of it and do not want to sell. It is my weekend car so I'll get time to try things out and I'm open to sensible sudgestions. Audi know about this 'lumpy' problem but never managed to sort it out and have long since lost interest due to newer models. I know a guy that spent over £2000 at a dealer and never got it sorted! So it's down to us to fix it.

[Misterm]

Well I have ordered an EGR from Europarts (£164 in VAT and delivery) and the gaskets from Audi (£10) and intent to fix them next weekend. That is nearly half the price of getting the garage to replace it so hopefully that will fix the problem. As there are no nasty noises I can't think of it being anything else. I will keep you updated.

[a8 tech]

covered to death but

If you unplug the egr then the airmass defaults and ecu will revert to a default map
Remove the fuel filter and empty the fuel into a clear glass
If the fuel is sooty then leave the fuel in the glass for 2 hours and then see if the soot clings to the glass
If it does and its excessive then you need to inspect the injector seals and cylinder head seats for damage/pitting
If there is excessive oil then empty the tank and clean it out then replace the fuel and filter
If the above are ok remove the egr and the inlet manifold, check the egr flap and shaft are in order and clean all the carbon from the inlet and the egr
Also check there is no oil in the egr electrical connection or wiring loom
If there is oil then the oil will run down the wiring inner and create a resistive circuit, replace the egr valve and the loom back from the egr to the ecu
If all these are still ok then check the valve timing as the exhaust camshaft can sometimes be out slightly if the belt has been replaced, this will effect combustion and increase egr bounce which is normally the cause of uneven idle (egr bounce is unavoidable)
Check the air con switch is not causing a false idle boost or alternator pulley over loading giving j519 false information and therefore creating idle control signal to the engine ecu
Check the clutch switch and engine mounting sensors are in order
If all these are ok then post the ecu sw version as there numerous updates for egr flow between idle and 2000 rpm




The sw versions in bold eg 9886 are the modified versions so if your ecu sw is not at these levels then I advise you go to audi and let them run the update

THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF THE DATA YOU NEED TO POST

Address 01: Engine Labels: 03G-906-016-BLB.lbl
Part No SW: 03G 906 016 LR HW: 03G 906 016 LR
Component: R4 2,0L EDC 000CG 0972 sw is 0972
Revision: --H05--- Serial number: XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Coding: 0000076
Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000



THESE ARE THE UPDATED SW VERSIONS FOR YOUR ENGINE CODE, SO THE EXAMPLE SHOWS A BLB ECU HW 03G 906 016 LR AND SW VERSION 0972 (THIS ECU IS NOT AFFECTED BY THIS UPDATE ITS TO SHOW YOU THE INFO)


REVISED VERSIONS FOR BRE LUMPY IDLE IN WARM UP BETWEEN IDLE AND 2000 RPM




9886




1141



9887





1142



1143



1144



9909



9908

IF YOU BLANK THE EGR OFF ON EU4/5 SYSTEMS THE MIL WILL COME ON AND STAY ON

YOU WILL NEED MORE EXPERIENCE THAN MR WALKERS "FIX IT YOURSELFS"

[joshA6]

What age is your BRE engine? I though these oil pump problems were only related to chain driven oil pumps? Were there any warning signs before failure.

[joshA6]

A8Tech,

Any thoughts on the cha cha cha sound being related to oil pump? It's got me really panicked and would like to know if this is something Audi would advise me to do preventative maintenance on?

If you could reply, it would certainly put my mind at rest!

[a8 tech]

What age is your BRE engine? I though these oil pump problems were only related to chain driven oil pumps? Were there any warning signs before failure.


the bre is from my many vcds logs and used as a simple example for sw version location

[a8 tech]

A8Tech,

Any thoughts on the cha cha cha sound being related to oil pump? It's got me really panicked and would like to know if this is something Audi would advise me to do preventative maintenance on?

If you could reply, it would certainly put my mind at rest!

the oil pump normally starts with a noisy top end and to prevent i would remove the sump and inspect the oil pump drive

without hearing the noise i cant really comment

[joshA6]

Thats re-assuring. I have no noisy top end yet, so will ask Audi about software updates etc. Thanks for your help

[swampey]

Things where alot more simple when I had the Discovery TD5.... All you did was block it off an and bypass the whole thing.. made the engine reun alot more sweeter.....

Im sure you could take the EGR valve off and clean it up... new gasket seal... Jobs a good en

[joshA6]

This thread is turning out to be the EGR thread, however, everyone is just assuming that the EGR is the problem.

Personally, the oil pump is the thing that worries me most of all.

[swampey]

Josha6 stop worrying mate, as long as you get ya car serviced every year. whats not going to be problem... if your that worried put it into you Audi dealer and get it checked

Name me another car company besides Audi, VW, Seat & Skoda that makes there cars
19 000 between services.. as I have previously stated my local mechanic told me Audi and all those that used long life servicing are asking for trouble:o

Oil wasnt ment to stay in an engine for 2years or 19000 miles, think of the contamination and crap floating around and engine... thats why the pump screws up, cant handle it

[humphrey999]

>>Name me another car company besides Audi, VW, Seat & Skoda that makes there cars
19 000 between services..

BMW and some Volvos?

To be fair all the common causes of sudden failure that I have heard of with the VAG 2.0 tdi engines seem to have been design issues rather than due to lack of maintencance. E.g the tandem pump, the plastic tensioner failure on BLBs, the hex shaft weakspot, none of them is likely to be exacerbated by long oil intervals. They could have been cuaght by more frequent inspection perhaps but that's not necessarily the same thing.

[Misterm]

Just an update on the original post. EGR replaced this morning and plugged back in, took all of 1 hour. My old valve was pretty chocked up but not the worst I have ever seen. I was pretty hopeful but after a short test drive found the problem still exists. got my mate to drive the car and while I stood outside heard a hissing sound. He reckoned there was an over fueling problem. Had a good look around the engine and found a hairline crack in the intercooler. So in summary I have spent £170 on an EGR that didn't need replacing ...... Yet and found I need to spend some more on an intercooler.

I've got to agree I'm not too keen on leaving oil in for 20000 miles, police vehicles are over serviced having oil changes every 6000 miles. They are driven hard abused and sold after 3 years, normally having done around 150000 miles. What are they? Skoda, Volvo,
BMW etc. So that tells me that it is less to do with the car more to do with the servicing.

[humphrey999]

I understand the point of view wrt longlife servicing but I still haven't heard of a common failure mode with the BLB/BRE engines that may have been caused or exacerbated by infrequent servicing? I've heard a lot about common falures that are put down to alleged poor design or complete lack of oil...

Anyway, who cares, you found out the source of your problem! Well done! :)

[joshA6]

I understand the point of view wrt longlife servicing but I still haven't heard of a common failure mode with the BLB/BRE engines that may have been caused or exacerbated by infrequent servicing? I've heard a lot about common falures that are put down to alleged poor design or complete lack of oil...

Anyway, who cares, you found out the source of your problem! Well done! :)

completely agree. I have had this opinion about vag diesel cars for about 10 years now as I came to the same conclusion with a mk4 golf I bought new years ago. I also remember being completely flamed on the mk4 forum for stating this.

I have heard that the shuddering is down to a knacked inter cooler from at least 4 sources now.

But everytime I look at my cooler, it is bone dry on the outside and I cannot see any cracks visually. Tempted to take it out completely and inspect it!

Does anyone know where you could get an uprated cooler from???

[humphrey999]

Wouldn't you get lots of smoke behind (overfuelling) and some errors posted in VCDS if it was an intercooler problem? We also have a Discovery 3 and I spend some time on that forum and people who have had issues report that intercooler issues get logged by the car based on pressure values being out of spec.

[humphrey999]

>>as I have previously stated my local mechanic told me Audi and all those that used long life servicing are asking for trouble:o

Scaremongering, pure and simple :p

>>police vehicles are over serviced having oil changes every 6000 miles. They are driven hard abused and sold after 3 years, normally having done around 150000 miles. What are they? Skoda, Volvo,BMW etc. So that tells me that it is less to do with the car more to do with the servicing.

The assumption being of course that this course of action is the result of a rational evidence-based scientific process and not some Luddite assuming the worst, as above...

[joshA6]

Update on my own lumpy BRE problems.

So stripped the front end down on Friday expecting to take the cooler out and for it to be cracked. Bought a new intercooler and sensor ready for the swapover.

Once I removed the cooler, I did a pressure test, and surprising the inter cooler seems OK. Has a few bent fins etc, but is definitely not cracked or leaking oil.

I replaced the sensor (£45) just because it was to hand and not that expensive. Note my car has not had any faults related to the sensor, but I have felt that the sensor reports a higher ambient air temperature than I would expect.

I then went looking for other potential problems in the induction area (vaccumm lines, other turbo hoses) and noticed that the turbo hose going into the turbo underneath the engine was very loose. Tightened it and all other hoses as tight as I could and now the car runs fine. The pipe still has play in it which I do not think is normal.

I am not getting my hopes up as for some reason, whenever I take any of the turbo pipes off for inspection, the car miraculously starts to behave itself again. However, 2 days in, there is no lumpiness or shuddering.

If it comes back, I am convinced it's that bottom turbo hose. Have not replaced it as it is £130! Not paying that until I am absolutely sure.

So the summary for me is that this lumpiness, cha, cha, cha and shuddering on my BRE engine looks to be induction related.

[joshA6]

Well. the shuddering is back after a week. It's only minor though, so my pipe tightening did achieve something. Bottom turbo hose now bought (£147...ouch) and looking at the design, the current wobbly hose is bound to be leaking boost.

Simply enough to change, will update on whether the shuddering comes back after the change.

[Brycie]

I have heard that the shuddering is down to a knacked inter cooler from at least 4 sources now.

But everytime I look at my cooler, it is bone dry on the outside and I cannot see any cracks visually. Tempted to take it out completely and inspect it!

Does anyone know where you could get an uprated cooler from???


My intercooler went after splitting, but there was no lumpiness or shuddering. The first sign anything was wrong was when the Emmissions Control light came on, it was smoking heavily under acceleration and later the turbo stopped kicking in & it eventually went into limp mode. Sorry Josh, would have replied before you took the intercooler off, but only just found the thread.

My local mechanic has said that the high pressure fuel pump on these engines is prone to failure & that this can result in a sort of shudder that feels like a wheel balancing problem at motorway speeds. Could this be the root of the problem? Apparently it's not much to change if you catch it before it goes, but is costly if not changed in time. Another symptom of the fuel pump going wrong is a certain amount of oil in the fuel filter, however as A8tech has stated, this is normal to a certain extent, it's when there's an excessive amount or a build up of soot in the filter that there is cause for concern.

[JimC64]

Ok, so not sure if this is related or not, but here goes....

My BRE engine has suffered from lumpy running for years now and Aud have never got to the bottom of it after many attempts unfortunately.
The problem only ever seems to come to light on the very first start of the day, not necessarily every day, but particularly on cold days it would seem.

Its only ever at start up and its almost like it';s not going to start, then idles extremely roughly for a few seconds with the car almost shaking some it seems before, with a little gas it sorts itself out.

Its never ever happened during normal day to day operation other than as explained above?

[a8 tech]

The 2.0 l 4V TDI engine has been developed with the following aims:

High torque

Low fuel consumption (low idle speed)

Meeting the current exhaust gas legislation

Because of these requirements light juddering may occur at idle speed. This is normal.

Egr flow is the biggest influence if all settings are correct including exhaust cam timing and egr is working as it should plus fuel balancing and pressure are ok then as the statement informs you this is unavoidable

If you advance the exhaust cam it will reduce the judder by altering the combustion or delete egr via flashing and blanking the port
Also decoke the inlet manifold and make sure the air filter is in order
Do not advance the exhaust cam if dpf fitted as the required temperatures for the dpf to regenerate will never be meet by altering the exhaust cam position it will cool the gases

here is a example of one i have just done

Display group 4 camshaft timing exhaust cam advanced


Measured values
880 /min
5.0 °n.OT
4.0 °KW
6.34 ° THIS MUST BE AROUND 2.5 FOR CORRECT VALVE but set at 6.34 there is no lumpy idle, if this had dpf then the dpf would not regen at this setting

I would just like to add that the common myth that tandem pumps fail is easily checked by applying 1 bar of pressure to the pump, if it holds it then its ok, one day I will do a full on thread collecting all the advise I have given on the 2.0 pd engines

As you can guess I have spent lots of time with this engine and as we now dont see as many in the dealers we still see the ones evey tom **** and harry has had a go at and the basics are fuel condition and contamination, air flow/leaks egr flow valve timing and fuel balancing/pressure plus engine ecu software versions and excessive smoky remaps

I have a 2004 bkd golf re flashed after previous owners not so awesome remap and it runs spot on and this has the early head on which cracks but as of yet its fine, all i have done is replace the injector seals and reflash the ecu for uneven warm idle and cleaned out the manifold and tweek the exhaust cam.The reflash is via vas using oem software from vag
Technical product information
Transaction No.: 2005869/12
Engine: erratic idle speed in warm condition
Release date: 16-Dec-2009

[coolraj003]

Yeah all that definitely did not go way over my head...;-p

Anyways at least it explains very minor juddering that I feel if its idling, its so minor that i have to focus a bit to actually realise it. Could it be the cause for the sometimes a little rougher than usual judder. It lasts for only a couple of seconds once every week or so. Happens when I m stopped at lights after a little distance travelled(1-2miles) from cold start. Engine is normally about half way to the normal operating temperature by this time. The rev needle judders a lil bit too to show that the revs are a bit uneven. But as i said its like a lil fluke and not a regular thing. Maybe happens only once a week.

Raj

[a8 tech]

So there's nowt up with it then as that's normal


Sent from my iPhone using
My fat fingers

[coolraj003]

you're da man.....

Raj

[joshA6]

Thanks A8 Tech.

Have you ever seen a violent, random shudder around 1800-200RPM under load that makes the whole car shake. If I power on through it, the car responds fine.

Car has no fault codes and has 100k on the clock.

I thought this is what others meant by a lumpy idle/shudder, I guess my idea of a shudder is more violent

Any help you can give me would be appreciated. It has been driving me mad for a year now.

[a8 tech]

Yes, check if the fuel is black and if it is drain the fuel from the fuel filter and fill a clear smooth glass half way and leave it for 2 hours

If you can now see soot clinging to the glass wall then remove the injectors and look for dark markings around the injector seats on the cylinder head

If this isnt the case then there may be a software update to reduce egr flow at this rpm but need a vcds screen dump of the ecu part number and sw version

try that first

[joshA6]

I take it dark markings around the injector seats means either injector seals or injectors?

I think removing / installing the injectors may be beyond my expertise as they need special tools and need to be timed etc.

If I ask a local garage, what should I be asking them to do?

Man, wish you were local!

[a8 tech]

if the head is marked then it a new head as the fuel pressure passes the injector seat but it could just be the software update in your case for egr flow

Technical product information
Transaction No.: 2013480/3
Vehicle jerks when accelerating strongly - A3, A4, A6 2.0 l 4V TDI
Release date: 16-May-2008

Customer statement / workshop findings

Engine judders strongly when accelerating.

Technical background

Various causes.

Production change

Various changes.

Measure

Try to reproduce the customer complaint so that it can be clearly assigned to this TPI.

The following repair must only be carried out, if all the criteria (model/type, chassis number, engine/gearbox code, PR number(s), software version, code etc. ) match exactly. Otherwise this solution won't work and repeat repairs may be necessary. In such a case, we may reject the warranty claim and redebit the parts.
•
If entries are logged in the engine control unit, deal with them via the “ guided fault finding” or according to the repair manual.
•
Read the measured value blocks (MVB) 18 and 23 as the complaint occurs while driving and compare them with the specified values. If in MVB 23 all 4 displays have values over 90, this is an indication of fuel supply problems. If only individual displays are over 90, this is an indication of leaking tapered support in the cylinder head.
•
Check the fuel pressure on the tandem pump according to the repair manual, if possible also as the complaint occurs while driving.
•
If the necessary fuel pressure is not reached, before replacing the tandem pump check the seals on the pump injector units, the fuel filter and possibly also the fuel pipes as well as the fuel pump in the tank.
•
When the fuel return is closed, a sufficient fuel pressure can be reached even if the fuel filter is severely clogged up.
•
If the seals on the pump injector units, the fuel filter, the tandem pump, the fuel pipes and the fuel pump in the tank are definitely correct or if the necessary fuel pressure is not reached when driving, check the tapered support of the pump injector units.
•
Remove the pump injector units and check whether the tapered support is damaged (e.g. worn, oval, see illustration) or whether there are visible leaks (soot marks).
•
If the tapered support in the cylinder head is damaged as shown in the illustration, the cylinder head must be replaced.
•
The pump injector units can always be reused. The installation must be performed according to the instructions of the repair manual with the specified special tools. Use new bolts the part number WHT 003 179 for the pump injector units.

[joshA6]

Is a new head common ?

Also, how can you check EGR flow. Are there values in VCDS you can track?

[joshA6]

Sorry , just saw your full post. I'll do some digging

[joshA6]

OK.. Checked with Listers Audi and they say there are no software updates for this chassis number, let alone for EGR valve issues.

Can anyone confirm this for the BRE engines? Car is an 08

I am really surprised that there is not at least 1 update.

Should I be inclined not to believe them?????

[a8 tech]

Try quoting tpi 2012506/19


Sent from my iPhone using
My fat fingers

[joshA6]

thought as much... will the update wipe out my remap?

[a8 tech]

Yes it will wipe the remap file


Sent from my iPhone using
My fat fingers

[joshA6]

thats OK, I presume I can have the map put back on afterwards and it wont effect the audi update?

Need to do the fuel filter test ASAP!

[a8 tech]

Yes but in some cases the ecu is wiped so please contact your remap agent


Sent from my iPhone using
My fat fingers

[joshA6]

Can you confirm what MVB 18 & 23 are supposed to be?

In VCDS 18 = Unit Injector Status & 23 = Unit Injector time switching deviation

When I logged everything as per the instructions, I got values of 128 in all 4 boxes in MVB 18 when the car shuddered (but I dont know if this is good)
As for MVB 23 - those values stayed negative all the way through

Either I am not testing this right or VCDS measuring blocks are different to the dealer tools???

[a8 tech]

018 Solenoid valves status
1) Cylinder 1
2) Cylinder 2
3) Cylinder 3
4) Cylinder 4
Key - cylinders 1 to 4:
000 Fault-free control
002 Closed-loop control at start
004 Small injection quantity or solenoid valve off
008 Maximum current reached
016 BIP outside control window
032 Number of scans too low
064 Conversion error
128 No BIP evaluation possible

As the solenoid valve needle contacts its
valve seat, the distinctive signature of an
alternately dropping and rising current flow
is detected by the Diesel Direct Fuel
Injection Engine Control Module J248. This
point is called the beginning of injection
period (BIP)

possible remap changes ( this is a guess) alter the injection to rotation angle your not in overrun so the ecu knows the injector is open but cant determine it i think

did this run like this prior to the map?

“Start of injection” is the point
in time when the actuating
current to the pump/injector
solenoid valve is initiated.
”Beginning of injection
period (BIP)” is the point in time
when the solenoid valve needle
contacts the valve seat.
With the solenoid valve closed, a holding
current is maintained at a constant level by
the Diesel Direct Fuel Injection Engine
Control Module J248 to keep it closed. Once
the required time period for fuel delivery has
elapsed, the actuating current is switched
off and the solenoid valve opens.



023 Solenoid valve switching times
1) Cylinder 1
2) Cylinder 2
3) Cylinder 3
4) Cylinder 4
Values, cylinders 1 to 4:-100 ... 100 ms

your values show the fuel pressure is ok so it suggests the head is ok

[joshA6]

Thats Interesting, I tend to agree with respect to the car generally not having a huge problem as it has been like this for 25k now since I bought it.

Specifically, it shuddered before and after the remap and it certainly was no worse (or better) after the map.

Looking at Elsawin, I saw 2 fault finding avenues. One for shuddering on light hesitation and one for shuddering on heavy acceleration.

If I categorised my issue, it is definitely shudder on light acceleration (albeit violent). If I push hard on WOT, it never shudders.

Saw the ECU update you mentioned, plus a special note for the A6 for after the ECU update
"If the judder still occurs on the A6 with 2.0 l TDI, fit the seal with part number 028 131 547 B between exhaust gas recirculation cooler and pipe."

I think this is the egr gasket with a smaller diameter opening that the Skoda boys have had to use for a similar issue on the BLB engine.

thanks for help so far. Will do the fuel filter test in the next couple of days to rule out the serious stuff and will look at the EGR, induction system in detail.

[a8 tech]

Yes the gasket is 10 mm or 14mm hole i think but if you can view the tpi i posted look at the egr wiring for oil contamination as your problem suggests egr flow rate to high so to much dirty air in the combustion process

As you have vcds then disconnect the egr plug (mil will come on) and try running it to see how it runs but remember this will default airmass values so may just mask the problem

[JimC64]

Thanks A8 Tech.
Have you ever seen a violent, random shudder around 1800-200RPM under load that makes the whole car shake. If I power on through it, the car responds fine.
Car has no fault codes and has 100k on the clock.
I thought this is what others meant by a lumpy idle/shudder, I guess my idea of a shudder is more violent

Any help you can give me would be appreciated. It has been driving me mad for a year now.

Hey Josh, I feel that more or less describes my symptoms.

Mine is a 2.0 tdi remapped to 176bhp and now almost 6 years old with 99k on the clock ( BRE )
She's been serviced regularly and anything she needs she pretty much gets and the sooner the better.

Mine has pretty much always had the poor start condition, this seems to get worse in the cold and the first few seconds and really lumpy & jittery.....all over the place. A simple little blip on the throttle and settles down and runs sweet as a nut.

However, recently in the last few months I've noticed as follows

When in high gear but at low revs and cruising normally I can get a really violent shudder, almost as if she's going to stall out.
This can be driven through, although I prefer to drop a gear to lessen the load on the engine and then all is well.......its getting particularly worrying tbh.

Having been told by Audi that my Inlet Manifold Actuator needed replacing I took it to an Indy tonight for a second opinion, they say no and that my IMA is fine and shows no issues.
I do need a thermostat replaced as she's running cooler than she should be but thats about it.

On the subject of the judder, they seem convinced that its the early stages of DMF on its way out?? around £800-£900 to replace as i'm sure you know!

To be honest, Im now more confused than ever.....If I thought that changing the IMA for £284 would fix this I'd just get it done, but I'm loathe to spend that to find out its not causing the problem.

This is all exacerbated by the fact that no codes are present

[Brycie]

What gear & revs as an example Jim? Let me know & I'll try it out tomorrow and report back how mine behaves at those revs in that gear. Although mine's not remapped, it may give you an idea if it is something to worry about. Also if it happens more when cold or hot, I'll test it at the right temp.

[JimC64]

Hey Paul,
I'm not so sure its rev dependent, I need to try and do some more tests I guess.

The best way I can explain it is as follows....
Say you're in 4th or perhaps 5th gear but perhaps just cruising around either in a 40 mph or 50 mph zone at lower speeds and almost with no throttle, just the lightest of touches.....then all of a sudden the car starts to shake really violently as if about to stall.

In the past and from experience these speeds and revs were never an issue and the car would just smoothly and effortlessly drive on, but something has obviously changed!

It seems to happen in almost every gear, although more prevalent in the higher ratios but when at lower speeds.......definitely a new development for me.
Again.....the car shakes really violently, its not just a hesitation or jerkiness.

I'm wondering just how much the thermostat may have affected the mpg as she seems to be using a lot of fuel recently too? I hope that replacing that helps as the gauge is certainly struggling to get up to and stay at temp ( 90 )

As part of that issue I'm looking into 02 lambda sensors ( I've changed a few on my sons Astra G and astra H recently for hesitation issues and poor mpg and these at 68k and 49k respectively )
Here's some info below from various sites on them, although I'm sure you're probably aware!

"To match various applications, oxygen sensors are available in many different types; but even though you employ the most contemporary unit, it may still affect the overall performance of your vehicle the moment it does get faulty. With a properly functioning Audi A6 oxygen sensor, you are assured that the engine is regularly supplied with proper mixture of fuel and air, thus allowing it to accomplish an efficient combustion.
Oxygen sensors for Audi A6 don't have a fixed lifespan, yet many of them begin to fail after 100,000 miles. Because it is regularly exposed to coolant, fuel, and also filth build-up, your ride's oxygen sensor is also vulnerable to rust; if detected soon, this problem can be fixed by cleaning the sensor thoroughly. You will realize if it is high time to replace your stock sensor since there are evident symptoms like increased emissions, poor fuel mileage, and engine problems like idling roughly and pinging."

"WALKER PRODUCTS OXYGEN SENSORS ARE MADE TO IMPROVE ENGINE RESPONSE AND PERFORMANCE. THEIR TYPICAL LIFE EXPECTANCY RANGES FROM 30, 000 TO 60, 000 MILES IF ACCOMPANIED WITH REGULAR PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE WHILE HEATED OXYGEN SENSORS CAN LAST 100, 000 MILES OR MORE."


"Symptoms of a failing oxygen sensor includes:


Sensor Light on dash indicates problem
Increased tailpipe emissions
Increased fuel consumption
Hesitation on acceleration
Stalling
Rough idling"


I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that life expectancy ( that doesn't necessairly mean it will be achieved ) is in the 100k - 150k miles range for our Audi's

Considering the latest mpg issues and hesitancy / lumpy running problems I'm experiencing and that fact I'm at 99k miles I think it may be prudent to look at changing them out in any case.

I need to check and will start looking into this, there could be one, two or perhaps more ( on both Astra's there were two pre cat & post cat )

They're around £116 each for Bosch ones and although no codes are shown on my vehicle I'm guessing they could do with replacement by now and may look to do this sooner rather than later

[joshA6]

Hey Paul,
I'm not so sure its rev dependent, I need to try and do some more tests I guess.

The best way I can explain it is as follows....
Say you're in 4th or perhaps 5th gear but perhaps just cruising around either in a 40 mph or 50 mph zone at lower speeds and almost with no throttle, just the lightest of touches.....then all of a sudden the car starts to shake really violently as if about to stall.

In the past and from experience these speeds and revs were never an issue and the car would just smoothly and effortlessly drive on, but something has obviously changed!

It seems to happen in almost every gear, although more prevalent in the higher ratios but when at lower speeds.......definitely a new development for me.
Again.....the car shakes really violently, its not just a hesitation or jerkiness.

I'm wondering just how much the thermostat may have affected the mpg as she seems to be using a lot of fuel recently too? I hope that replacing that helps as the gauge is certainly struggling to get up to and stay at temp ( 90 )

As part of that issue I'm looking into 02 lambda sensors ( I've changed a few on my sons Astra G and astra H recently for hesitation issues and poor mpg and these at 68k and 49k respectively )
Here's some info below from various sites on them, although I'm sure you're probably aware!

"To match various applications, oxygen sensors are available in many different types; but even though you employ the most contemporary unit, it may still affect the overall performance of your vehicle the moment it does get faulty. With a properly functioning Audi A6 oxygen sensor, you are assured that the engine is regularly supplied with proper mixture of fuel and air, thus allowing it to accomplish an efficient combustion.
Oxygen sensors for Audi A6 don't have a fixed lifespan, yet many of them begin to fail after 100,000 miles. Because it is regularly exposed to coolant, fuel, and also filth build-up, your ride's oxygen sensor is also vulnerable to rust; if detected soon, this problem can be fixed by cleaning the sensor thoroughly. You will realize if it is high time to replace your stock sensor since there are evident symptoms like increased emissions, poor fuel mileage, and engine problems like idling roughly and pinging."

"WALKER PRODUCTS OXYGEN SENSORS ARE MADE TO IMPROVE ENGINE RESPONSE AND PERFORMANCE. THEIR TYPICAL LIFE EXPECTANCY RANGES FROM 30, 000 TO 60, 000 MILES IF ACCOMPANIED WITH REGULAR PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE WHILE HEATED OXYGEN SENSORS CAN LAST 100, 000 MILES OR MORE."


"Symptoms of a failing oxygen sensor includes:


Sensor Light on dash indicates problem
Increased tailpipe emissions
Increased fuel consumption
Hesitation on acceleration
Stalling
Rough idling"


I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that life expectancy ( that doesn't necessairly mean it will be achieved ) is in the 100k - 150k miles range for our Audi's

Considering the latest mpg issues and hesitancy / lumpy running problems I'm experiencing and that fact I'm at 99k miles I think it may be prudent to look at changing them out in any case.

I need to check and will start looking into this, there could be one, two or perhaps more ( on both Astra's there were two pre cat & post cat )

They're around £116 each for Bosch ones and although no codes are shown on my vehicle I'm guessing they could do with replacement by now and may look to do this sooner rather than later

A couple of things Jim (sorry it's been a while since I have been on).

I thought oxygen sensors are for petrol cars only (pretty sure of that). Your poor fuel economy is probably the thermostat. To be extra sure, I would change the coolant temp sensor at the same time. I never got round to doing this on mine.

Regarding the violent shudder, my car still does this and I have not bothered to try and fix it just yet. Car has done this for 40k, so I am sure it can't be the clutch / flywheel. My shudder always happens around 1800-2200rpm. Therefore I have always assumed that the issue had something to do with the car coming on boost. As with your cars, I have no fault codes and Audi believe there are no additional updates for this issue. therefore, I think the issue is one of the following:

1. dirty injectors or a coked engine (possible as car has 120k in 4 years - not sure what fuel was used
2. filthy EGR - clean it/replace it and change the the little blanking plate at the same time to one with a smaller hole (£3 + carb cleaner)
3. De- Coke engine - give it a terraclean to clean injectors/head etc - pointless unless you do inlet manifold/egr manually first
4. Sticking turbo vanes - again a terraclean should sort this
5. Knackered turbo - my turbo oil pipe leaks a bit so I wander if the turbo stalls/ loses lubrication. worst case get a new turbo
6. other boost issue - dirty pipes, split inter cooler
7. Blocked PCV pipe - my car routinely lunches a full sump of oil every 15k - oil light comes on, but thats not uncommon
8. the one I never considered that you said earlier - inlet manifold - I would try cleaning this first rather than replacing.

Basically, I think the issue is due to accumulation of muck etc over a period of time. I will clean it all out in the spring and then get the car terra cleaned. If that don;t fix it, i'll just live with it as its not the end of the world.

appreciate any responses

[EssexGonzo]

Hi Jim, Josh,

Where did you get to with the juddering? My BRE engined auto has just got to 100k and this winter I've had the lumpy starting for the first time in the 6 years I've had the car.

I'm thinking of looking at the EGR valve and fuel filter first - where do I start for both of these - any diagrams, pointers or processes that you can point me towards?

Cheers

Simon

[JimC64]

Hi Simon,
I have cleaned out my EGR valve, see link to post below.....not too difficult tbh.

A6 EGR location & removal "how to?" (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?134701-A6-EGR-location-amp-removal-quot-how-to-quot)

A6 2.0 Tdi ( 2007 - BRE ) In tank fuel pump location / how to (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?142162-A6-2-0-Tdi-(-2007-BRE-)-In-tank-fuel-pump-location-how-to)

I've also had the Terraclean treatment done and am happy with the results from that.

Latterly, I have suffered with these symptoms of almost violent juddering at 1800 revs or thereabouts when cruising and looked into this a little more.

I had Audi check it out and they swear that the fuel filter is fine, no codes showing etc etc.....They recomend changing out the in tank fuel pump at a cost of around £500. I asked if that would definitely solve the problem as its a large amount of money to dump if it doesn't but they said no, but it was a good place to start.

I've since found this thread.....

Fuel pump problems on A6 2.0 TDI (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?15961-Fuel-pump-problems-on-A6-2-0-TDI)

which I find really interesting and am examining further.

I have for quite some time also suffered with poor starting / hard start conditions where, when its cold and the car has lain overnight she's terrible to start first thing. This shows as a splutter / stutter and very rough running for the first 15- 20 seconds perhaps.....she then runs fine afterwards all day with no issues other than the judder, which can be avoided.

My thoughts are as follows....

Obviously without any concrete evidence its an educated guessing game almost.....even Audi will not 100% guarantee the fix if I go with their suggestion, so....

I'm considering changing the fuel filter ( although I'm convinced it fine ) just to rule that out. Its the cheapest & easist thing to do to see if that gives a fix.

I'm also considering changing out my glowplugs.....at 100k miles it wouldn't be a bad idea as they lose their effectiveness over time. Its not a case of they either work or they don't I'm sure. Again a relatively cheap potential fix, at least for the hard start condition I hope.

Lastly, the in tank fuel pump.....This is the biggest cost and the last to do if all else fails I think.

Thats where I am Simon......Hope it helps some.

If there's anything else I can do to help, please feel free to pm me or mail me

Cheers

Jim

[EssexGonzo]

Thanks Jim. That's next weekend sorted then.

TBH, glowplugs had occurred to me too. If you go ahead, I'd be interested to learn from your experiences.

Cheers Jim. :beerchug:

[JimC64]

Of course I'll post anything thats relevant mate :beerchug:

[joshA6]

I've had a couple of things on but will have a look at the EGR clean out and change in gasket. I'll post up the fault finding document that I have somewhere which suggests doing this. It also lists ECU updates (which my car already has).

I have changed fuel filter and it made no difference. Definitiely think the issue is emmissions/boost related.

is your car chipped?

[JimC64]

Thanks Josh...

I'm currently looking to do the following as soon as time / money allows....

replace the fuel filter - Looks like I replaced it around 18 months ago at nearly 80k miles, so a little over 21k covered since then. I'm sure Audi recommend 40k changes on fuel filters iirc so should all be good ( I've read of cars doing stellar mileages such as 100k+ on original fuel filters with no issues )
Its cheap and good preventative maintenance anyway, so that'll be getting done.


I'm also considering just replacing the glow plugs as a matter of course.....I do have a hard start / poor start condition on the car and have had for a while. The first start of any day, especially when cold is terrible, a real bag of bolts for the first 15-20 secs then she's good. I've covered 101k miles and living in Glasgow area it gets kinda cold from time to time , so the glow plugs do get used plenty.
Again they're not a huge amount of money and I think they'll definitely help the starting situation so may get those done too.

Intank fuel pump - I'm hoping that the fuel filter may be blocked and once a new one fitted it may resolve my issues. Failing that after what I've been advised by Audi + what I've read Fuel pump problems on A6 2.0 TDI (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?15961-Fuel-pump-problems-on-A6-2-0-TDI) that may be my problem and replacing it could be the cure.
Audi are looking for £550 but Indy's are around £400 which although still a lot of money is a saving and if needing done will probably be the way I go.

[JimC64]

Ok, so I've bit the bullet and the car is booked in for Friday morning.

I'm having the fuel filter replaced early to see if that helps with the possible fuel starvation issue and all the glow plugs renewed to se if that helps with the lumpy hard / cold start issues.

Total cost os going to be around £265

Ok so I know I could probably buy the filter and do it myself for around £15 and probably buy the glow plugs and attempt them myself for around £60, but........

I've read so many horror stories on the glow plugs snapping etc there's no way I'm going to risk it.....knowing my luck...:1zhelp:

My thinking is at 101k miles the glow plugs have done well and even if one or two haven't failed they will be weaker than they were new, so best case scenario is they resolve the hard start issue, worst case is they've been renewed, certainly shouldn't do it any harm!

As for the fuel filter, although I replace it regularly, looks like the last time was at 79.5k miles, so around 21k miles ago.........So they should last a lot longer but again its certainly shouldn't make the problem worse and she's been freshened up a little, all good IMO

If that doesn't help I may ( as advised ) have a look at the in tank fuel pump, although at £500 its a fair wedge at the moment.

I'll post the results of course :beerchug:

[Brycie]

Good luck Jim, let's hope it's one of the less costly jobs that fixes it.

As you know, I'm not a mechanically minded person, but would it be worth checking the fuel valve & the pipes feeding into it/out of it? It's next to the washer bottle & you'll be able to see if it's leaking diesel just at a glance & feeling the pipes by hand. Mine was leaking so I got it replaced recently & that would cause a lack of fuel getting to the injectors.

[JimC64]

Thanks for the thought Brycie, appreciated mate.

I did have the cover off last week and again today looking at the filter + connections and all seems well. I always clean my engine bay as part of my wash routine, the bay itself, the cover, all pipes and hoses and underneath the bonnet, so its pretty clean.
Any leaks etc would show up instantly but its as dry as a bone and clean, so all is well on that front.

We'll see what happens after the work on Friday, worst case scenario its 101k miles so worth doing IMO anyways.

Note - I will ask the dealer to keep the old parts and return them to me.....I want to see what condition they're in and get their views on them. It mught be something worth sharing with the forum

Cheers

[JimC64]

Hi all,
I had my car in at Audi today, as some of you know I've been suffering with hard starts / poor cold starting that gives a 15-20 secs jerky feel, quite scsry until she settles down with a light rev to 2000 rpm.

I've also had a judder that appears when in high gears and at low revs, the car judders quite violently and I've been advised to replace the in tank fuel pump at over £550 by Audi
This can be driven around / avoided and rather than try to push through it, I've always came off the gas and changed down, no issues.

Well, with no other recomendations, I decided to try changing the fuel filter and also the glow plugs to see what effect if any that would have, couldn't hurt so lets see......

Please see glow plugs detail below...

NGK CZ301 7V K6Z8C
VW AG N10579803

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/glowplugs2_zps16221da9.jpg

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/jaycam0802/glowplugs1_zps6a202fa0.jpg


I'm no expert on glow plugs but having read a lot about them, they look to be an item that aren't either necessarily good or bad, but they weaken and lose their effectiveness over time. At over 101k miles perhaps mine are due for replacement I thought, so lets see....

Anyone with any glow plug knowledge or experience please feel free to chime in and advise what looks to be good or bad in the pics above, it could be quite helpful for others.

The other item was the fuel filter.

My car is looked after and anything she needs she pretty much gets. Audi recomend filter filters be changed at 40k miles
I used to cover stellar miles, mainly motorway and around 50k - 70k per year, this has now changed to around 10k-15k and mostly stop/ start around town.

My last filter was changed at 79583 miles and I'm currently at a little over 101k miles, so its done just under 22k miles, so should be good right?
WRONG!!

Mines was BLACK and contaminated with oil

I asked Audi to keep the old fuel filter for me, but they didn't, they did one better and made me a video to share with you all showing the fuel that came out.

See link below....

You will need a pin to view, please use the following bearing in mind its case sensitive
ec3cf76e

Click here (http://audicam.audi.co.uk/customer/44853/cfb2065e1197e2ab/44854/44855/1)


You can clearly see the black covering of oil in there.

I haven't had any dodgy fill ups as far as I'm aware? I used to use Tesco fuels, but changed some time ago ( around 9 months ) and now only use Shell Vpower diesel

Driving home from the dealers I noticed instantly a huge improvement in pulling power, she was ready n eager all good to go, pulling like a train, always a good sign.

I did try and check several times for the jerky / judder, lumpiness and it seems to have disappeared . It may be too early to tell so I will watch for any signs of this and report back as necessary over the coming days / weeks / months.

As for the glow plugs?
I'm not 100% sure if they've made a difference tbh.......Again, I'll check and report back on this

At a cost of £265.93 its all good as far as I'm concerned at the moment and money well spent.
Thanks Stirling Audi

Audi advise that there may be an issue either with my injectors / tandem fuel pump that could be causing the oily fuel as seen in the filter and I know thats £££ to fix........I'll be doing further checks.

The thing is I actually had all 4 injectors and the tandem pump replaced under warranty some time ago in 2009 due to issues I was having at that time. Should these need doing again at any point and as a customer who has bought the car from new, had all service and warranty work done there, also own a Passat I'll be speaking to customer services and looking for a major contribution, if required.

Hope this post is useful and helps someone else

Thanks

Jim

[JimC64]

Hi All,
well after getting the work done on Friday as in my post above, I can report as follows........

Saturday & Sunday on early morning cold starts she fired up IMMEDIATELY with no lumpy running issues, so I'm hoping I've won a watch on that one :approve:

As for the hesitation, severe judder when in high gears ay low revs / low speed?

I drove today and checked this several times trying to replicate it. I've been able to make this happen almost at will as I know the conditions required. Today I couldn't get it to happen at all, no matter what I tried or how many times I tried :approve:

I'm hopeful that both issues have now been resolved, but as always will keep any eye on it and report back should it re occur

Thanks :beerchug:

[Brycie]

Nice one Jim, well done mate.

[JimC64]

Thanks Paul, it'd be great if it managed to help point someone else in the right direction too.

Just need to keep an eye on things now as regards the tandem pump / intank lift pump scenario.......I'm hoping I can get away without it, but we'll see.

[c4a5er]

I suspect that there is engine oil in the fuel tank from the previous tandem pump failure that wasn't cleaned out at the time. If it's not that then it's possibly another tandem pump gone. If you don't clean the tank then more frequent filter changes will obviously be required to prevent further problems.

[JimC64]

Thank you C4a5er.....I already change the fuel filter at around 20k ( half what Audi recomends ) but its something I will be keeping an eye on and changing, perhaps even sooner as you say. For the sake of a few ££ its really good insurance I reckon.

The tandem pump scenario is another issue - in late 2009 under warranty I had all 4 injectors replaced as well as a new tandem pump. If this fails again, along with the many other reported cases on this and other sites, suffice to say I won't be happy. I can see one irate owner calling customer services adnd looking for SERIOUS goodwill contribution, but here's hoping we don't get into that situation.

Thanks for the thoughts / comments

[joshA6]

Well done Jim,

I think the glow plugs will finally solve the rough idling/starting issues.

Regarding the shuddering, lets hope that the filter solves that too. I would be surprised if that does though as surely the fault of oil contamination would remain, especially if the tandem pump is leaking.

Makes me think I need to look at my shuddering issue more closely. I have had the oil filter changed, but it made no difference to my shudder. May well be completely different issues with the same symptoms. The common link would seem to be problems in the overall air/fuel mixture causing the shudder.

Hmmmmmm....if only gupsterg drove a 2.0TDi .........

[JimC64]

Lol....I know, I'd like Gup to have a 2.0 as well......He'd have it fixed in jig time.

I still think I'm a little under powered though although the above issues seem to be resolved for the moment.

So.....perhaps you're right about a split intercooler / boost leak somewhere?
I used to be able to really give her some beans and she'd respond getting up into 3 figures quite easily, now it seems a struggle!

I'm looking at and checking into the tandem pump / lift pump, intercooler and or turbo, perhaps even the MAP / MAF....who knows?

Something somewhere is still outta tolerance, but no codes being shown so no help there.

Could do with some input from A8tech / Crasher / PeterD on this one I think?

[gupsterg]

Hi Jim :) ...

Want a video from Audi on the fuel filter :yikes:...

Your glow plug tips look pretty much the same as mine... the threads looks so good on yours though, no aluminium galled on them :approve: unlike mine :aargh4:...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg629/gupsterg/Glow%20plug%20stuff/GPoldwiththread_zps3f1d73ba.jpg
Good result on the cold starts/judder :beerchug:...


Hmmmmmm....if only gupsterg drove a 2.0TDi .........

LOL! :biglaugh: ...

ATB
G

[Madmick001]

Hi guys, i too have an 2006 Audi A4 S-Line 2.0tdi which i have owned for 3 years and i also have a similar problem which i'm trying to work through i saw this post on here and decided to join in the fun, i have a mechanical background but not with Audi's as i used to work on Volvo trucks but i guess a turbo diesel is a turbo diesel :S

The car was fine up until probably October last year and i noticed it has a violent hesitation and lumpyness at around 1500rpm - 2000rpm (felt mainly in 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear) but this can be avoided by not neccessarily full throttle but a decent acceleration speed and there is no hesitation at all, it is experienced best when sat in town or traffic and you are progressing slowly with light throttle inputs in the said rev range. In addition to this when the needle hits 3000rpm plus i get plumes of black smoke from the exhaust which is gradually getting more noticeable.

I took the car to Scotland last week with was 4 1/2 hours each way and a total of 280 miles, the journey there was uneventful and the car was happy to cruise at 80mph with no smoke or hesitation even when in the fore mentioned rev range as it doesn't appear to have the problem in 4th, 5th or 6th gear though i did have to stop for oil as the low level light came on though i checked the oil before i left the dip stick on this engine is very hard to read with it being black and oil residue tends to linger in the dip stick tube. While i was there i did very little in the way of driving and what driving i did the car felt ok but with same usual hesitation around town, when we left to travel home after 5 miles or so the engine check light came on as the car felt ok i thought i'd run the risk and continue, i was glad t get the light as i thought i may give some indication as to what is going on. The journey home was very much like the journey there apart from the light being on the car felt fine on the motorway at 80mph though it was still hesiatating in lower gears and black smoke above 3000rpm.

I have in my possesion a Snap-On Ethos diagnosis computer which i brought some years ago as i thought i may come in handy and i got a good deal, after plugging in the Ethos to the Audi there was an engine management fault code;

00257 Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70) Implausible Signal P0101

I did a search on the P0101 fault code and it appears there are a couple of opinions as to what can cause this, i have also put in brackets what i have done to try to rectify the fault;

1) Faulty or Dirty Mass Air Flow Sensor (I remove the Mass Air Flow Sensor and air box and cleaned the sensor with MAF Cleaner and cleaned out the filter box and filter)

2) Faulty or Dirty EGR Valve (I removed the throttle body from the valve for which black lumps fell out of the EGR, i then removed the EGR valve which was pretty carboned up so i cleaned it with Brake/Clutch cleaner and refitted the EGR valve and throttle body)

3) Turbo Boost Leak (I have not taken any action to look at this as i don't have anything to get the front end up at the moment so i can't see anything from above)

After the above attempts at solving the problem, i took it for a test drive and found it to be exactly the same though maybe a little smoother on WOT though probably just my imagination, what do you guys think or suggest to try next. I don't have any/much money to throw at it hense why i tried to clean components first rather than buy. By the way befor ei test drove it i turned of the engine management light and it hasn't come back on yet but the car still doesn't feel right.

[skinso]

my 2.0 tdi a6 2006 went into limp mode last week, there would be no pull in any gear then it would kick in normal until you changed gear or took ur foot of the accelerator, chris and his son helped me out on Saturday by checking it on vcds which came back egr valve. my figures where.

Chassis Type: 4F0
Scan: 01 03 05 07 08 09 0E 15 16 17 19 1E 37 42 46 47 4F 52 53 56
61 62 72 76 77

VIN: WAUZZZ4F86N176240 Mileage: 149630km/92975miles

00-Steering Angle Sensor -- Status: OK 0000
01-Engine -- Status: Malfunction 0010
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
05-Acc/Start Auth. -- Status: OK 0000
07-Control Head -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
0E-Media Player 1 -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
1E-Media Player 2 -- Status: OK 0000
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
37-Navigation -- Status: OK 0000
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
47-Sound System -- Status: OK 0000
4F-Centr. Electr. II -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
53-Parking Brake -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: OK 0000
61-Battery Regul. -- Status: OK 0000
62-Door, Rear Left -- Status: OK 0000
72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: OK 0000
76-Park Assist -- Status: OK 0000
77-Telephone -- Status: OK 0010

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 03G-906-016-BLB.clb
Part No SW: 03G 906 016 HS HW: 03G 906 016 HS
Component: R4 2,0L EDC G000SG 9673
Revision: --H02--- Serial number:
Coding: 0000072
Shop #: WSC 00899 210 88143
VCID: 7BF18F223A254CC074E

2 Faults Found:
001027 - EGR Valve (N18)
P0403 - 000 - Malfunction - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 169
Mileage: 149490 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2013.04.09
Time: 07:07:10

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1722 /min
Speed: 53.0 km/h
Duty Cycle: 84.4 %
Voltage: 13.53 V
Mass Air / Rev.: 675.0 mg/str
Duty Cycle: 0.0 %
Bin. Bits: 00000000

001032 - EGR Potentiometer (G212)
P0408 - 000 - Signal too High - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 15
Mileage: 149493 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2013.04.09
Time: 07:18:40

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2520 /min
Speed: 101.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Lambda: -11.5 %
Mass Air / Rev.: 335.0 mg/str
Mass Air / Rev.: 440.0 mg/str
Bin. Bits: 00000000

Readiness: 1 1 0 0 0

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 4F0-910-517.lbl
Part No SW: 4F0 910 517 K HW: 4F0 614 517 K
Component: ESP 8.0 front H05 0090
Revision: 00000000 Serial number: 00000000000000
Coding: 0020855
Shop #: WSC 02325 785 00200
VCID: 2C537C7E8FCB1B78AD4

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 05: Acc/Start Auth. Labels: 4F0-910-852.clb
Part No SW: 4F0 910 852 HW: 4F0 905 852 B
Component: FBSAUDIC6 ELV H31 0220
Revision: 31050601 Serial number: 10601000387569
Coding: 0000017
Shop #: WSC 00899 210 88143
VCID: E3C1574222951400DCE

Part No: 4F0 910 131 D
Component: FBSAUDIC6 EZS H45 0080

Part No: 4F0 910 220 D
Component: FBSAUDIC6 IDG H39 0040

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 07: Control Head Labels: Redir Fail!
Part No SW: 4F0 910 769 B HW: 4F0 035 769 B
Component: MMI Cockpit H55 0010
Revision: C51500BE Serial number: AUZ6Z3F3J907J1
Coding: 0100142
Shop #: WSC 02324 785 00200
VCID: 2C537C7E8FCB1B78AD4

Part No: 4F0 910 609 E
Component: Bedienteil MMIC6H04 0060

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 4F0-910-043.lbl
Part No SW: 4F0 910 043 HW: 4F2 820 043 H
Component: KLIMABETAETIGUNGH12 0170
Revision: 00000030 Serial number: 00000000249002
Coding: 0001044
Shop #: WSC 02325 785 00200
VCID: DBB16FA21AE52CC094E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels: 4F0-910-279.lbl
Part No SW: 4F0 910 279 E HW: 4F0 907 279 B
Component: ILM Fahrer H15 0190
Revision: 00000000 Serial number: 4F0907279
Coding: 0000101
Shop #: WSC 02335 785 00200
VCID: 2B517F628AC51C40A4E

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 4F2 910 113 Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
Component: Wischer AudiC6 H04 0150
Coding: 00062736
Shop #: WSC 02335

Subsystem 2 - Part No: 4E0 910 557 A Labels: 8K0-955-559.CLB
Component: REGENLICHTSENSORH12 0090
Coding: 00141886
Shop #: WSC 02335

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 0E: Media Player 1 Labels: Redir Fail!
Part No SW: 4F0 910 769 B HW: 4F0 035 769 B
Component: MMI Cockpit H55 0010
Revision: C51500BE Serial number: AUZ6Z3F3J907J1
Coding: 0100142
Shop #: WSC 02324 785 00200
VCID: 2C537C7E8FCB1B78AD4

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 4F0-910-655-8R.lbl
Part No SW: 4F0 910 655 E HW: 4F0 959 655 B
Component: 4F AIRBAG AUDI8RH29 0280
Revision: 08H29000 Serial number: 0037LD0DWFBT
Coding: 0013382
Shop #: WSC 02325 785 00200
VCID: 295D856A80390E50562

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel Labels: 4F0-910-549.lbl
Part No SW: 4F0 910 549 HW: 4F0 953 549 A
Component: Lenks�ulenmodul H07 0230
Revision: 00H07000 Serial number: 90054060900461
Coding: 0102041
Shop #: WSC 02323 785 00200
VCID: E6C74E56D1A761283B0

Part No: XXXXXXXXXXX
Component: Lenkradmodul H07 0090

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 4F0-910-xxx-17.lbl
Part No SW: 4F0 910 900 A HW: 4F0 920 950 L
Component: KOMBIINSTR. M73 H12 0660
Revision: 00000000 Serial number: 4RA19ZR36
Coding: 2308443
Shop #: WSC 00581 210 64475
VCID: 1E37A6B6C977F9E8330

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 4F0-910-468.lbl
Part No SW: 4F0 910 468 A HW: 4F0 907 468 D
Component: Gateway H11 0070
Revision: 11 Serial number: 13008063210201
Coding: ECEE53C43B3104
Shop #: WSC 00899 210 89282
VCID: 27598352962D3820406

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 1E: Media Player 2 Labels: 4E0-910-111.lbl
Part No SW: 4E0 910 111 F HW: 4E0 035 111 A
Component: CD-Changer H44 0470
Revision: 00000000 Serial number: AUZ5ZBF8088809
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 1C33ACBEDF6BEBF8DD4

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 37: Navigation Labels: Redir Fail!
Part No SW: 4F0 910 769 B HW: 4F0 035 769 B
Component: MMI Cockpit H55 0010
Revision: C51500BE Serial number: AUZ6Z3F3J907J1
Coding: 0100142
Shop #: WSC 02324 785 00200
VCID: 2C537C7E8FCB1B78AD4

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver Labels: 4F0-910-793-42.lbl
Part No SW: 4F0 910 793 E HW: 4F0 959 793 E
Component: TSG FA H12 0120
Revision: 00000000 Serial number: sI

Coding: 0002586
Shop #: WSC 02327 785 00200
VCID: 2C537C7E8FCB1B78AD4

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 4F0-910-289.lbl
Part No SW: 4F0 910 289 G HW: 4F0 907 289 G
Component: Komfortgeraet H22 0170
Revision: 01700022 Serial number: 01012083070000
Coding: 0000251
Shop #: WSC 02335 785 00200
VCID: 2E577676B9D76968830

Part No: 1K0 951 605 C
Component: LIN BACKUP HORN H03 1301

Part No: 4F0 910 177
Component: Innenraumueberw.H01 0020

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 47: Sound System Labels: 4F0-910-223-AS.lbl
Part No SW: 4F0 910 223 C HW: 4F0 035 223
Component: Amp.-ASK H10 0320
Revision: 34S00001 Serial number: 02703060247443
Coding: 0000001
Shop #: WSC 02335 785 00200
VCID: 1E37A6B6C977F9E8330

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 4F: Centr. Electr. II Labels: 4F0-910-280.lbl
Part No SW: 4F0 910 280 HW: 4F0 907 280 A
Component: ILM Beifahrer H10 0080
Revision: Serial number: 00000000209280
Coding: 0001104
Shop #: WSC 02323 785 00200
VCID: DEB766B609F739E8F30

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass. Labels: 4F0-910-793-52.lbl
Part No SW: 4F0 910 793 E HW: 4F0 959 792 E
Component: TSG BF H12 0120
Revision: 00000000 Serial number: ��G

Coding: 0002586
Shop #: WSC 02327 785 00200
VCID: 2C537C7E8FCB1B78AD4

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 53: Parking Brake Labels: 4F0-910-801.clb
Part No SW: 4F0 910 801 A HW: 4F0 907 801
Component: EPB CA3C0040 H03 0040
Revision: --H03---
Coding: 0000111
Shop #: WSC 02324 785 00200
VCID: 1E37A6B6C977F9E8330

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio Labels: Redir Fail!
Part No SW: 4F0 910 769 B HW: 4F0 035 769 B
Component: MMI Cockpit H55 0010
Revision: C51500BE Serial number: AUZ6Z3F3J907J1

[mm707]

Hesitation issues on mine were fixed by changing the vacuum actuator on the inlet manifold. This controls the flaps in the manifold and it has a diagphram inside which splits.

Easy enough and cheap job

[Madmick001]

I'll take a look at that diaphragm to see if its that but it's something I've not read anyone else checking or changing.

i have read that it may be worth disconnecting the MAF sensor and see if it drives better, can I also do this to the EGR valve?

Can I test the EGR valve so see it function?

[c4a5er]

x2 on the vac unit, would of said earlier but didn't know the BRE engine had one...... this is a known issue on the 170 BRD engine.

[gupsterg]

Hi,


...I have in my possesion a Snap-On Ethos diagnosis computer...

I don't know if your device support measuring blocks... VCDS does...


Can I test the EGR valve so see it function?

Jim did check his Link:- Help needed reading VCDS scans (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?141958-Help-needed-reading-VCDS-scans)


...the vacuum actuator on the inlet manifold...

I think Jim also had his changed ... Link:- A6 2.0 Tdi Inlet manifold actuator (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?138663-A6-2-0-Tdi-Inlet-manifold-actuator)

ATB
G

[c4a5er]

Vacuum unit Part # is 03G 129 061 C ...or you could test it with a mityvac or similar.

[Madmick001]

Hmm, I should of done first things first. I just unplugged the MAF sensor which is what the code originally said was at fault (P0101) just took it for a drive around town and what a difference there is no hesitation or black smoke at all, I have put up with it over the last 6 months and could make it hesitate on demand before but now even when I try time after time it is as smooth as its ever been.

Could this just simply be the MAF sensor is faulty or is it something connected with the MAF?

Even with the MAF unplugged there is no engine management light on, I also noticed that after I cleaned it with the MAF sensor spray it seems to run even rougher than before, maybe the spray make a faulty sensor even worse, I'm going to ask Audi for a price or get one off eBay for £25 though I'd like to stick with genuine if possible.

i did look at the actuator on the inlet manifold, I couldn't see how to remove it without removing the cam belt cover but I noticed when the engine if off the actuator arm is fully extended and while at idle the actuator has pulled the arm up so I'm guessing it works ok?

[mm707]

i did look at the actuator on the inlet manifold, I couldn't see how to remove it without removing the cam belt cover but I noticed when the engine if off the actuator arm is fully extended and while at idle the actuator has pulled the arm up so I'm guessing it works ok?

On mine ( BRD engine ) you have to take off the inlet manifold to get the actuator off. It seems quite daunting but if I can do it anyone can. Takes about an hour and a half or so to remove / clean and re-assemble. Yours does seem to be working ok though.

[Madmick001]

Mine is the BRE engine, the actuator is by the side of the manifold at the front of the engine but if the peer behind the cam belt cover you can see its closed when engine is off and fully opens at idle.

i believe with it being ok with the MAF sensor disconnected it a failed sensor;

Genuine one with ducting from Audi dealer is exchange part at £118 or £180 if no exchange
Non genuine Bosch with ducting from CES in Stoke £63
Bosch Sensor alone from Bowers Midlands £40

what happens if I leave it disconnected for the time being, I'm not planning on leaving it disconnected for ever probably just until pay day at the end of the month?

[c4a5er]

Be aware that when you disconnect the maf the ecu reverts to a default fuelling strategy using remaining sensors and likely disables egr so this could be masking the real fault and the maf could be fine. OK the maf's not too expensive to try but they are reported to be pretty reliable. Maybe using VCDS would be a better option before proceeding.

[Madmick001]

I think the Ethos does VCDS but what am I looking for? I ran my Audi earlier with the Ethos plugged in and tried to look for abnormalities while driving which is very difficult especially when I'm not sue what I'm looking at, I did notice the mass air flow sensor read 280 mgs at idle and raised to 350 mgs and pretty much stayed at 350 mgs regardless of engine speed or travelling speed.

is VCDS the same as OBD2?

is there a way of testing the EGR myself, I removed and cleaned the valve but no way of telling if it works or is there?

[gupsterg]

Does the ethos show ECU specified air mass vs actual reading?

VCDS formerly known as VAG Com... their home page Link:- Ross-Tech: Home (http://www.ross-tech.com/)

[Madmick001]

Yes i believe it does but i can't acess that screen until it's plugged in but i'm sure i have seen that as you can view all the values from majority or all of the sensors and i remember seeing Specified and Actual i just didn't understand what they meant as i'm not sure what values they should read.

Lets just say it does VCDS, what should i be looking for?

I really need to research into the Ethos more and it's capabilities as up until now i've used it for resetting service lights and other small diagnostic repairs, but i just usually go into fault codes which 9/10 the Ethos tells you what the actual problem is and it's normally right but in this case i'm being told even though the fault code for the MAF sensor was thrown up and it runs better with it unplugged the issue could still be elsewhere it's just where do i go from here surely with diagnostics it an be bottomed out without throwing random parts at it.

I will plug the Ethos in again in the morning and see if i can get a screen shot so you can see what i see

[gupsterg]

For example...

specified air mass is 250mg but actual is 300mg

Which mean you must start looking at what could be effecting this value...

ie in my cars case EGR inlet into intake/charge air system was blocked as soon as decoked values were in-line (specified vs actual)

I just wish it had fixed my cars issue though :p :biglaugh: ....

[Madmick001]

I plugged the Ethos in this morning with the MAF sensor plugged in, I have listed below all values shown on the Ethos.

Values at idle;

Engine Speed: 882rpm
injection Quality: 4.6mg/s
specified Supply Duration: 6.6*CA
Intake Air Temp: 12*C
Coolant Temp: 28*C
Ambient Temp: 12*C
Coolant Temp Radiator Output: N/A
Coolant Temp Engine Output: 28*C
Engine Oil Temp: 20*C
Fuel Temp: 24*C
Battery Voltage: 14.1v
Current Air Mass: 390mg/s
Atmospheric Pressure: 979mbar
Current Charge Air Pressure: 969mbar
Specified Charge Air Pressure: 1030mbar
Charge Air Pressure Duty Cycle: 72%
Pedal Sensor Value: 0.0%
Specified EGR Recirculation: 380
Current EGR Recirculation: 385
EGR Recirculation Duty Cycle: 71%
Glow Status: 255
Preheat Time(s): 1.6s
Smooth Idle Stabilisation quantity cylinder 1: -0.49
Smooth Idle Stabilisation quantity cylinder 2: -0.14
Smooth Idle Stabilisation quantity cylinder 3: 0.00
Smooth Idle Stabilisation quantity cylinder 4: 0.64
Engine Torque: 24Nm
Consumption: 0.40l/h
Driver Intention Torque: 0Nm
Solenoid Valve Response Time Deviation Cylinder 1: -15
Solenoid Valve Response Time Deviation Cylinder 2: -25
Solenoid Valve Response Time Deviation Cylinder 3: -41
Solenoid Valve Response Time Deviation Cylinder 4: -33
Pedal Value Sensor No.1 Voltage: 0.760v
Pedal Value Sensor No.2 Voltage: 0.380v
Pedal Value Sensor at Wide Open Throttle: 0.0

Values at 2000rpm;


Engine Speed: 2037rpm
injection Quality: 8.3mg/s
specified Supply Duration: 6.1*CA
Intake Air Temp: 13*C
Coolant Temp: 34*C
Ambient Temp: 12*C
Coolant Temp Radiator Output: N/A
Coolant Temp Engine Output: 34*C
Engine Oil Temp: 20*C
Fuel Temp: 29*C
Battery Voltage: 14.3v
Current Air Mass: 400mg/s
Atmospheric Pressure: 979mbar
Current Charge Air Pressure: 1030mbar
Specified Charge Air Pressure: 1142mbar
Charge Air Pressure Duty Cycle: 60%
Pedal Sensor Value: 37.6%
Specified EGR Recirculation: 400
Current EGR Recirculation: 395
EGR Recirculation Duty Cycle: 55%
Glow Status: 255
Preheat Time(s): 1.6s
Smooth Idle Stabilisation quantity cylinder 1: -0.14
Smooth Idle Stabilisation quantity cylinder 2: -0.14
Smooth Idle Stabilisation quantity cylinder 3: -0.08
Smooth Idle Stabilisation quantity cylinder 4: 0.49
Engine Torque: 63Nm
Consumption: 2.40l/h
Driver Intention Torque: 59Nm
Solenoid Valve Response Time Deviation Cylinder 1: -3
Solenoid Valve Response Time Deviation Cylinder 2: -21
Solenoid Valve Response Time Deviation Cylinder 3: -38
Solenoid Valve Response Time Deviation Cylinder 4: -17
Pedal Value Sensor No.1 Voltage: 1.976v
Pedal Value Sensor No.2 Voltage: 0.988v
Pedal Value Sensor at Wide Open Throttle: 37.6

Does anything on here look a miss to anyone?
You may notice the engine was cold at time of testing, you can see that the EGR current pretty much matches specified but with MAF there is no specified to compare against.

[gupsterg]

You are IIRC 2 posts away from being able to private message members... then you could PM say MFGF who is in your neck of the woods and get a VCDS scan done :) ...

I'll PM him and he'll probably post/help but can't make any promises on his behalf :Blush2:...

Link:- VWAF User Location Map - VCDS - Google Maps


(https://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=209563024277134815192.0004c505be14b22419dbe)

[Madmick001]

Does anything on there stand out to you?

Thanks for your help it is greatly appreciated

[MFGF]

Just back from a work trip. PM sent :)

MF.


You are IIRC 2 posts away from being able to private message members... then you could PM say MFGF who is in your neck of the woods and get a VCDS scan done :) ...

I'll PM him and he'll probably post/help but can't make any promises on his behalf :Blush2:...

Link:- VWAF User Location Map - VCDS - Google Maps


(https://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=209563024277134815192.0004c505be14b22419dbe)

[skinso]

im gonna try take my egr off tomorrow and clean it can anyone point me in the right direction as to where its located?

[MarkTM]

Something as simple as a blocked air filter?

I didn't actually have a noticeable problem with mine but noticed when I changed the filter it ran a lot smoother

Could it be yours has the original filter

Pics below of my old filter and replacement one...apparently (according to service record) the old one had done just 12k miles but I suspect it's the original one fitted from new as it's had an Indy doing the service for 2yrs and they'd not fit a genuine audi branded filter.

At speed it would be less of a problem because of the velocity of the air hitting the filter.

Natch, disregard if your problem is the same stationary as moving.

[MarkTM]

oops forgot pic

20229

[JimC64]

Don't know what engine you have, but this may help, see below.....

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.audi-sport.net%2Fvb%2Faudi-s4-a4-a4-cab-b7-chassis%2F159097-another-2-0tdi-egr-valve-cleaning-thread-before-after-pics.html&ei=WRZwUdbrB4KWO-GSgLgC&usg=AFQjCNETio-WfN0vIEkt7rVBZvDb7Ilk5A&sig2=orxi6RucdF2CNyV_Z6_tSw


+1 on the air filter making a big difference.
It's not an item necessarily changed at every service, a bit like the fuel filter and really does make a difference, a lot of difference for not a lot of time / money, so crazy not to check it / change it.

[gupsterg]

im gonna try take my egr off tomorrow and clean it can anyone point me in the right direction as to where its located?

Hi ya mate :) ...

JimC64 has done this... check his good links/experience share here ... Link:- A6 EGR location & removal "how to?" - Page 2 (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?134701-A6-EGR-location-amp-removal-quot-how-to-quot&p=733065#post733065)

Plus check your inbox for bonus material ;) ...


Just back from a work trip. PM sent :)

MF.

You da man! :approve: ....

ATB
G

[JimC64]

Always helpful Gup, top man, a legend even!

Nice to see you around and hope all is well with you?
With you on the case skinso will be all good.........hope to hear

[gupsterg]

my 2.0 tdi a6 2006 went into limp mode last week...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 03G-906-016-BLB.clb
Part No SW: 03G 906 016 HS HW: 03G 906 016 HS
Component: R4 2,0L EDC G000SG 9673
Revision: --H02--- Serial number:
Coding: 0000072
Shop #: WSC 00899 210 88143
VCID: 7BF18F223A254CC074E

2 Faults Found:
001027 - EGR Valve (N18)
P0403 - 000 - Malfunction - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 169
Mileage: 149490 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2013.04.09
Time: 07:07:10

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1722 /min
Speed: 53.0 km/h
Duty Cycle: 84.4 %
Voltage: 13.53 V
Mass Air / Rev.: 675.0 mg/str
Duty Cycle: 0.0 %
Bin. Bits: 00000000

001032 - EGR Potentiometer (G212)
P0408 - 000 - Signal too High - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 15
Mileage: 149493 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2013.04.09
Time: 07:18:40

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2520 /min
Speed: 101.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Lambda: -11.5 %
Mass Air / Rev.: 335.0 mg/str
Mass Air / Rev.: 440.0 mg/str
Bin. Bits: 00000000

Readiness: 1 1 0 0 0

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


x2 Skinso for going at the EGR system... you can see fault frequency is high... also your mass air is out...

My EGR system has caused me no end of grieve :( and it looks a PITA job to do on mine :banghead: at least easier access on the 2.0 TDi :) ...

ATB
G

[skinso]

gup do you think taking out and cleaning will solve it? im taking the car to a mates tomorrow afternoon he's very knowledgeable around cars and has the tools so he can keep me right

[joshA6]

I would do the egr valve and inlet manifold at the same time. You could also then check the diaphragm for splits etc. You will need a new inlet manifod gasket and new EGR gasket before dong this work.

[gupsterg]

gup do you think taking out and cleaning will solve it? im taking the car to a mates tomorrow afternoon he's very knowledgeable around cars and has the tools so he can keep me right

If in your shoes I'd really try cleaning first... I hope the electrical part has not failed http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/frown.png ... http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/sad6.gif can't help more as you know only a meddling owner http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/Blush2.gif ...

Perhaps some one like Crasher, A8 Tech, Peter D, Zollaf will be along...

P/N is 03G 131 501 R ... APPROX. £300 @ dealers :yikes:...

This is the cheapest new on ebay currently from quick search, but still over a £125 ... Link:- VDO AGR Ventil eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VDO-AGR-Ventil-Abgasruckfuhrungsventil-/150768363958?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item231a7ea9b6)

From the Link:- VDO web catalogue (http://www.vdo.com/generator/www/com/en/vdo/main/products_solutions/cars/replacement_parts/hidden/tecdoc_web_catalog_en.html) the manufacturer of the part 408-275-002-001Z

[gupsterg]

Hi Skinso...

Whilst cruising around the web I found this video...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K_03F0N6zc

The large cog which is removed showing worn teeth on the lower cog would mean egr valve is defaulting to close...

I double checked this by reading SSP 412 Audi 2.0L 125kw TDI Engine with Pump Injection System on page 19 you will see what is in the video...



2 Faults Found:
001027 - EGR Valve (N18)
P0403 - 000 - Malfunction - Intermittent

Fault Frequency: 169

* 001032 - EGR Potentiometer (G212)
* P0408 - 000 - Signal too High - Intermittent

Fault Frequency: 15

Freeze Frame:
*Mass Air / Rev.: 335.0 mg/str
*Mass Air / Rev.: 440.0 mg/str

By looking at another's egr valve fault video/SSP/your data IMO I would run the VCDS output test in module 1 to actuate the EGR valve...

The EGR valve on the 2.0 TDi is spring loaded so if cog fail it will be permanently closed...

What I learnt when my air mass reading were out the turbo forces air into intercoolers, this process makes dense air (high air mass) when egr open warmer air (less dense) mix with it to create right air mass (density) of air... if the valve is closed air mass reading will be too high...

I believe the * Mass Air reading is what your ECU want... * is actual reading of Mass Air...

[skinso]

thought about the cogs yesterday but didnt want to start taking it apart, was hoping cleaning would of sorted it, if I thought buying a new egr would solve the problem I would buy 1 but not looking to spend £160 and still have the problem

[gupsterg]

Ask Chris if he will run the VCDS test my friend or a local indi garage with VCDS... it will tell you if EGR valve electrics is shot...

Run the test with engine off... have the valve connected to wiring harness... have it unbolted from intake... see if it will open and close when VCDS request it to mate...

[Guest 2]

PM me skinso to arrange something.

[MFGF]

Mick,

It was great to see you this afternoon. Sorry the scan didn't show anything! Here are your results:

VCDS Version: Release 11.11.5 (x64)
Data version: 20121222

Sunday,21,April,2013,12:57:43:07948

Chassis Type: 8E - Audi A4 B6/B7
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 0F 11 15 16 17 18 36 37 45 46 55 56 57 65 67
69 75 76 77

VIN: WAUZZZ8E********* Mileage: 145430km/90366miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 03G-906-016-BLB.clb
Part No SW: 03G 906 016 JD HW: 028 101 265 4
Component: R4 2,0L EDC 000SG 9643
Revision: --H02--- Serial number:
Coding: 0000072
Shop #: WSC 00353 210 91454
VCID: 6ED8C47479880968C30

No fault code found.
Readiness: 0 0 0 0 0

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 8E0-910-517.lbl
Part No SW: 8E0 910 517 H HW: 8E0 614 517 BF
Component: ESP8 FRONT H06 0140
Revision: 00000000 Serial number: 00000000000000
Coding: 0004401
Shop #: WSC 06335 000 00000
VCID: 2C5C0E7C8F143B78AD4

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 8E0-820-043.lbl
Part No: 8E0 820 043 BM
Component: A4 Klimaautomat 2833
Coding: 00000
Shop #: WSC 00000
VCID: 6DDAC378278EF270FAA

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels: 8E0-907-279-8EC.lbl
Part No: 8E0 907 279 N
Component: int. Lastmodul ECE 0907
Coding: 11101
Shop #: WSC 65536
VCID: 3D7A3338376EA2F00AA

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 8E0-959-655-94.lbl
Part No SW: 8E0 959 655 G HW: 8E0 959 655 G
Component: Airbag 9.41 H12 3730
Revision: 91H12373 Serial number: 0036M0G1E3T8
Coding: 0031612
Shop #: WSC 06335 000 00000
VCID: 3B7E3D207A7AACC034E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel Labels: 8E0-953-549.lbl
Part No: 8E0 953 549 Q
Component: Lenksáulenmodul 0601
Coding: 02002
Shop #: WSC 06335
VCID: 41824FC84B96C6106E2

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 8E0-920-9xx-8EC.lbl
Part No SW: 8E0 920 951 E HW: 8E0 920 951 E
Component: KOMBI+WFS 4 H14 0110
Revision: 0110 Serial number: 00000000000000
Coding: 0006411
Shop #: WSC 00533 210 93181
VCID: 2C5C0E7C8C143B78AD4

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 45: Inter. Monitor Labels: 8E0-951-177.lbl
Part No: 8E0 951 177
Component: Innenraumueberw. 0804
Coding: 00001
Shop #: WSC 00000
VCID: EBDE4D60999A7C4064E

1 Fault Found:
01463 - Alarm triggered by Sensor for anti-theft alarm System
43-00 - Closed

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 8E0-959-433-MAX.lbl
Part No: 8E0 959 433 CH
Component: Komfortgerát T3B 4135
Coding: 07151
Shop #: WSC 06335
VCID: 79F2E72863C65ED0662

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 8E2959802E
Component: Tõrsteuer.FS BRM 0706

Subsystem 2 - Part No: 8E2959801E
Component: Tõrsteuer.BF BRM 0706

Subsystem 3 - Part No: 8E0959801E
Component: Tõrsteuer.HL BRM 0606

Subsystem 4 - Part No: 8E0959802E
Component: Tõrsteuer.HR BRM 0606

5 Faults Found:
01370 - Alarm triggered by Interior Monitoring
35-00 - -
00962 - Alarm via. Tilt Sensor
35-00 - -
01371 - Alarm triggered by Door Contact Switch; Driver's Side
35-00 - -
01560 - Passenger Door
58-10 - Can't Lock - Intermittent
00933 - Electric Window Motor; Passenger Side (V148)
62-10 - No or Incorrect Adjustment - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio Labels: 8E0-035-1xx-56.lbl
Part No: 8E0 035 195 AB
Component: symphony II PM6 0470
Coding: 01005
Shop #: WSC 65792
VCID: 67D6B1500572D820806

No fault code found.

End ---------------------------------------------------------------------



Cheers!

MF.

[gupsterg]

Hi ya Mark :) ...

Did you run the measuring blocks in module one for Mick?

[Madmick001]

I started a new thread in A4 B7 as I was starting to hijack this one, sorry.

Please take a look as I'm keen to bottom this one out and I had further development this evening.

[JimC64]

Link to Madmick's thread..... 2006 A4 2.0 tdi BRE hesitating and black smoke between 1500-2000rpm (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?145135-2006-A4-2-0-tdi-BRE-hesitating-and-black-smoke-between-1500-2000rpm)

[JimC64]

Had my front N/S wheel bearing done today at Audi Technik £194.97, as part of this process they looked deeper into my issues as requested.

This is after Audi have recomended a intank lift pump and or Tandem pump to help cure the issues.
Audi Technik today confirmed that there does seem to be low pressure and that the tandem pump seems to be failing :aargh4:

Seriously ***??
I had mine replaced under warranty on 05/08/2009 at 59k miles and now at 23/04/2013 and 102k miles I need another one!!

Are these parts made of chocolate??

Audi Technik have quoted £422.62 to replace tandem pump and see where it is from there.

Audi are looking at replacing tandem pump, intank lift pump, injector seals, various nuts & bolts + labour at, wait for it........£1460.00 :zx11:

I have a funny feeling that there will be a phone call to Audi in my very near future

Replacing tandem pumps every 2-3 years or 40k - 50k miles........I don't think so!!

[jocker01]

I’m sorry to refresh an old topic but I have exactly the same problems with my BRE.
I have “accidently” cleaned EGR when she stalled on a junction last month and didn’t want to start, but didn’t replaced a gasket though L
Squirt of deodorant to manifold helped!
Well since I bought her in September last year I had a problem with 1st gear acceleration, sometimes is acceleration ok but mostly lots of hesitations, feels like a wastegate opens and will not accelerate over 3k rpm.
I checked an electric fuel pump with VCDS and is working ok, I’ve noticed VCDS has an option to activate it in case when injectors are replaced and should be run 3 times for 30 sec to build pressure in a system.
Should I replace EGR gasket anyway? Should I clean manifold too together with new gasket?
How can I check for cracks on a intercooler, please?
I could check EGR with VCDS, could be done when new gasket is fitted!
Regards
Jocker01

[gupsterg]

How can I check for cracks on a intercooler, please?

Visually you may see like a oily residue where a crack has occurred.

You can have charge air system pressure tested.

[jocker01]

I have drained my fuel filter and fuel looked like this: http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/13/ebf924343bb04f65479fe80c9eef7288.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/13/615f37a321542520713473e1f5398c45.jpg
Is this mean that my tandem pump is knacked? Regards Jocker01

[gupsterg]

Is this mean that my tandem pump is knacked?

Could be but could be another fault, you'd need more diags from what I've read.

Is oil level rising in engine? if so fuel getting to sump, if your topping up often it indicate a leak into fuel system.

[jocker01]

I didn't notice any excessive oil rise or drying to be honest. But is definitely something wrong when accelerating. 1st, 2nd and 3rd the most. Not always though. Vcds doesn't report faults at all, injectors within limits.

[joshA6]

it's been a while since I contributed to the forum, let alone my favourite thread.

I finally found out the cause of my shuddering BRE engine... the turbo failed in Feb. Since turbo was replaced, there has been no juddering/shuddering/kangaroo's or anything else. That was 8k ago.

So if like me you could find nothing obviously wrong, it could be your turbo failing.