Question regarding 2.5 tDi Camshaft problems

[JGP]

Looking into buying an Avant Quattro or Allroad with the 2.5 TDi.
I know there is an issue with the camshaft rockers etc on engines manufactured to 2002. According to Lyingpedia these were the engine codes and periods of use in the C5 models:

AFB: 04/97-05/00, AKN: 10/98-05/01, AKE: 11/99-08/03, AYM: 06/01-06/02, BFC: 07/02-08/03, BDG/BDH: 02/03-01/05, BAU/BCZ: 02/03-08/05

It looks like the B suffix engines were the re-engineered roller rocker solution.
Are there some engines with an A suffix that were particularly susceptible?
Is the issue related to lack of maintenance/ Extended service intervals?

I suppose my ultimate question is: Should I avoid anything with an A suffix or could low mileage (less than 150K) examples be worth a punt?

[adamss24]

Avoid any car on longlife service intervals, it's the daft servicing regime that lets the cams get damaged ! I actually prefer the AFB/AKE engines, they go to high mileage with decent servicing. I have high mileage engines(200k) in both my allroad and a4 quattro and no wear whatsoever.

[drpellypo]

Even without variable servicing they can still wear. Although if 507 spec has been used it can prevent it. The previous owner of mine didn't have it on variable but did use 505 spec and there's considerable wear.

[Padwick]

Due to the age and miles on mine, I'm going to throw a bottle of ZX1 in during my next service. I'll report back here if it causes any problems.

[JGP]

Due to the age and miles on mine, I'm going to throw a bottle of ZX1 in during my next service. I'll report back here if it causes any problems.

What is the age and mileage? Is this a preventative measure or a "what have I got to lose" measure?

[Padwick]

Bit of both. It's rolling up on 95,000 miles and they're already worn (can see through the oil filler hole). Due to that mileage and to the car being the pre-facelift with the horrible soft suspension it's worth £2,000 tops I'd say, so I might as well give it a go.
It also needs a timing belt, clutch, and flywheel soon and I'd rather see would this kill it before I shell out on those, rather than after.

[JGP]

Now this illustrates the dilemma facing me. On the one hand Padwick with the cams wearing at 95K on the other hand Adams24 on 200K and alls well.
It will be interesting to see what occurs (if anything immediately noticeable) with the addition of Zuperlube.
I suppose as always it is down to luck and good service records.
As a believer in and practioner of bangernomics there is always a fair amount of sheer luck involved in getting a good 'un.
My 1987 Audi 100 Avant Quattro cost me £137 on ebay and has lasted me eight years with capital costs - as opposed to consumables at around £2000. £300 is a pretty tough benchmark to reach ....

[snapdragon]

My late 2001 Passat has the AKN engine, and 174,000miles.
The cams look fine. It makes me wonder if it is primarily lubrication failure when this occurs.
The car was on long life services for the first 90,000miles too, I have a database export of all the work done on the car from the previous owner (lease company) and there is no unscheduled engine work, so I have to assume they are the original ones.

[Padwick]

I've always wondered if this is down to the common failure of thermostats on these cars and if the wear occurs due to the engine running cooler.
Also the oil retention valves under the oil filter housing. I tried changing these but couldn't get the turbo off.

[crystalclear]

I've a BDH engine and it all went a bit wrong last August with the cams after 172k.

- The engineer who inspected the vehicle concluded similarly to the mechanic that it was oil starvation that caused the destruction of the cams.

- However, the engine remanufacturers who took the engine apart concluded that, having seen enough of such problems with these engines, that it was a design fault with the hollow cam arrangement.

I've no idea if/when Audi have corrected the design for newer engines. Judging by the thread here it could well have been a bit of both factors acting together, or as one writer suspects, something to do with failing thermostats.

Hoping that a replacement BDH with 62k has less risk for me but thanks for the heads up about the thermostats.

[drpellypo]

I should have mentioned btw that since the oil spec change on mine the cams haven't got any worse and the car is now up to 180k. I'm servicing it every 10k with longlife and never take it on short runs as a preventative measure.

[forgetech]

Hi! Please help, your opinion about my engine??
Help! Audi Allroad 2.5 tdi ake engine sound. - YouTube (http://youtube.com/watch?v=evEc3fQ8sp8)
Do i have problems with camshaft ?....

[crystalclear]

Hi! Please help, your opinion about my engine??
Help! Audi Allroad 2.5 tdi ake engine sound. - YouTube (http://youtube.com/watch?v=evEc3fQ8sp8)
Do i have problems with camshaft ?....

I listened to your video on YouTube and I'm sorry to say that it sound exactly like both the engines that have had with this issue. An Audi garage will insert a magnet into the cylinder head via the oil filler cap to see if any of the lobes have come loose. They'll also use a screwdriver as a lever to see if there is excessive movement 'play' in the cams. There are 2 in each head in a twin head v6.

If you bought the car from a trader in the UK the checkout the Sales of Goods act which protects consumers.

Whatever you do don't drive the car anywhere as it may result in a more catastrophic engine failure and many more times the cost to you. Replacement cams and the associated bolts etc is still a fairly costly affair of a couple of grand. If they are the same hollow cams as on my 2 BDH engines then these are at fault and its better to replace with solid cams available from an aftermarket supplier.

How are things progressing for you? I received a set of these cams in a replacement engine supplied by Motors in Motion of Worksop, England. I'm not sure whether you will be able to find out from them where to order the aftermarket cams but Paul Reeder of Automobile Repair Services, Rotherham on 07900584861 may be able to help you. He fitted the engine for me.

Wishing you the best of luck!

[Golf tdi Hal]

I have the same problem, it sounds like an army of ants with very big hammers are knocking hell out of my engine !
How long before I get some mechanical failure and is there something I can add to the oil to quieten things down a bit while I save up for a large garage bill ??

[adamss24]

I have the same problem, it sounds like an army of ants with very big hammers are knocking hell out of my engine !
How long before I get some mechanical failure and is there something I can add to the oil to quieten things down a bit while I save up for a large garage bill ??

If you have the AFB/AKE type engines then cams are cheaper- you can buy quality kits from ebay- look for Koblenshmidt kits as they have INA lifters and rocker arms. If you have a BDG/BAU type engine then make sure you get the replacement solid cams, unfortunately the cams are more expensive ! I have rebuilt a few v6 tdi engines and there's a lot of damage when the BDG/BAU cams let go ! Don't be tempted to buy cheap kits as well, i have worked on a customer's allroad 2004 which was rebuilt with some cheap solid cams, the cam rollers and lifters were stamped with an e in a circle- like this@, they are rubbish. It broke a few lifters after 8k miles then it dropped a valve ruining the head. Then i replaced the head worked with genuine INA lifters and cam followers and it's done it again on the other side- broke 2 more cam followers although the engine was running fine, just the emission light kept coming on the dash ! Sadly i cannot replace the cams as the gears are cut at an angle and genuine cams are 300 quid each !