1.9 TDI 150 misfire

[Rexer]

Guys, sorry but its a Bora, there doesnt seem to be much action in the Bora section and being as this is a TDI question i though i might have more luck in here.

Hi all.

My wife and i both have TDI's, i have a 130 sport passat and i got the wife a TDI 150 bora.
We have had the bora around 18 months and its always thrown out a little black smoke if you boot it and the occasional judder that seemed to clear it self.

Yesterday the car sounded like it had snapped a conrod and was only running on 3 cylinders, loud knocking.

I plugged it in and scanned it with Vag Com but showed no codes on the engine module.

For some reason after a little while it ran fine, took it for a blast and ran perfect.

I started it this morning and the noise and misfire was back.

Is this likely to be the injector loom/harness i have been reading so much about being as it was semi intermittent or something worse?

Im a fairly competent DIY mechanic and i know i will have no problems doing the loom.

Any ideas?

[herby0001]

Does sound like the injector wiring loom could be at fault, being intermittent and all. At least you can rule out a busted conrod. I suggested the injector wiring loom to someone else recently, but they haven't replied to say whether or not they've fixed it yet. See here (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=114114).

[Rexer]

Well then.

I changed the injector loom (£50 from ********)

Still broke :(

Stripped it all down and found the cam is trashed, the last lobe - furthest away from the cam belt is sort of square shaped lol.

No probs, will have it done tomorrow, now where is the best place to get a cam and lifter kit ???

[herby0001]

Ouch, sorry to hear that it's your cam, but TBH as it was intermittent, I didn't think it was a mechanical issue. Live and learn...

[waaarp]

Had to replace my cam and lifters last November, parts direct from VW.

Now my gearbox is busted.

What happened to the VW reliability?:confused: I'll be selling up and buy something non German the end of this year.

[Rexer]

got a heavy duty cam kit from redman for £285 delivered, well impressed with that

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vw-audi-1-9-TDi-pd-8v-heavy-duty-steel-camshaft-kit-/380287616375?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item588ae88577#ht_2039wt_1139

[denz]

what type of oil are you using ? as ive heard not using the proper oil ie non pd oil will wreck cams . not good lol

[Crasher]

Don’t forget you need to add to that cam kit these parts;

2 x Rocker arm shafts 038 109 527 AF

If you don’t this can happen and the supplier will not warranty the cam

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd20/Crasher1964/DSC_0040witharrow.jpg

and then you will also need these parts

8 x Rocker arm shaft bolts 038 103 714 A
1 x Cam oil seal 038 103 085 C (the cam and seal MUST be completely oil free, clean and no lubrication, also cover the cam wheel alignment slot with tape to protect the new seal)
10 x Cam cap locating bolts 038 103 714
1 x Tandem pump gasket set 038 145 215 or gasket 038 145 215 (depends on pump fitted)
1 x Water pump 038 121 011 KX
1 x Cam belt kit 038 198 119 A
1 x Oil filter 074 115 562
1 x PD suitable oil
1 x Sump bolt N 908 132 02
2 x Engine mount to consul bolts N 102 096 05
2 x Consul to block bolts N 907 124 03
1 x Consul to block bolt N 103 280 02
2 x Mount to body bolts N 105 167 02
2 x Mount to body bolts N 101 559 06

[Rexer]

I don't see why changing the rocker shafts would prevent the wear shown on that photo, that just looks like one of the rollers seized.

And i will not be replacing all them bolts, just the stretch bolts for the cam blocks.

I think people get a little carried away buying parts you don't need to change

Thanks mate

[Rexer]

what type of oil are you using ? as ive heard not using the proper oil ie non pd oil will wreck cams . not good lol

Well it had a VW history up until 90.000 then i have serviced it myself using PD oil.

No one can really tell if VW always used the correct oil. I always change the oil when the service light comes on. Its now has around 105.000 miles

[Crasher]

All the bolts listed are stretch bolts except for the two mount to consul and the three consul to block bolts but about two weeks ago I saw an ARL engine with a broken block on the rear lug which I think was down to using old bolts. The rocker shafts being changed is something I was warned about by a number of VW technicians who had experienced injector lobe failure and when I removed the rocker shaft off the cam in the picture, the lobe span perfectly. I always replace bolts that VW state to “renew” in their workshop information as to disobey this instruction would leave me open to criticism should I experience a failure. I have seen a number of instances of bolt failure recently such as gearboxes and engines nearly falling out. One squaddie with a 1.8T Golf GTI was very lucky when the consul to block bolts failed in that the block was not damaged and the timing belt did not fail as it ran on the broken consul plus we managed to extract the broken bolt from the block without removing the engine.

[Rexer]

Thanks for that mate, will order the bolts, still not sure why the rocker shafts will prevent that cam lobe wear though. There doesn't seem to be any play in my rollers or shaft's

[Crasher]

Surface hardness failure. If you want to get the Rockwell harness of the surface checked prior to reusing them then that is fine, you do what you like but I will continue to insist on them being replaced. Put it this way, if I am going to charge a customer over a thousand pounds for a job, I want them to come back for many years (twenty two years and counting for quite a lot of my customers) for more paying work, I don’t want them coming back giving me **** complaining that my work has failed. If I fit a cam (any cam, not just genuine) and a part that runs on it knocks a lobe out, the cam supplier is going to tell me to take a run and jump if the cam fails if a part used is an original.

[Rexer]

Surface hardness failure. If you want to get the Rockwell harness of the surface checked prior to reusing them then that is fine, you do what you like but I will continue to insist on them being replaced. Put it this way, if I am going to charge a customer over a thousand pounds for a job, I want them to come back for many years (twenty two years and counting for quite a lot of my customers) for more paying work, I don’t want them coming back giving me **** complaining that my work has failed. If I fit a cam (any cam, not just genuine) and a part that runs on it knocks a lobe out, the cam supplier is going to tell me to take a run and jump if the cam fails if a part used is an original.

Crasher, i appreciate the advice mate i really do, if the cam fails due to the surface hardness failing then that's another issue, but you said to change the shafts, from what i can see the shafts have nothing to do with the wear you showed in that photo. The rocker rollers are a different kettle of fish all together though.


The rocker lobes on my cam are mint so i will probably just re use the ones i have.

I do understand where you are coming from mate but my own experience is telling me these ones are going back in. (never had a come back either in 16 years)

Even if the lobes do wear out, lets just say i change them and still they wear out, the cam people are just going to say its down to faulty workmanship, how can anyone prove it was torqued up properly, correct oil used, other new parts fitted etc etc....

[Crasher]

The wear in the photo is where the roller rockers run on the cam injector lobe.

[Rexer]

yeah i guessed that bit mate.

Update, i went and had another look at my cam and the injector lobe next to the goosed one (number 4 exhaust) although out of sight at the moment i can feel something really nasty on the top of the lobe so i may well just take your advice after all.

Will know more when i take the cam shaft out. Just have to find the right puller as it seems to be really on there ;)

Will keep you posted

[Rexer]

Well, the cam is out and i was impressed by how little wear there was on the bearings, looking good.

Shiny new camshaft

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/Rexer2003/03133c1f.jpg

Can you spot the difference ?

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/Rexer2003/a31f74c7.jpg

looks like every other one iv seen on the forums with 100.000 miles

And the lifters made by willy wonka himself .....

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/Rexer2003/13b9d947.jpg

I also found that one of the injector lobes has a bit of a deep score in it, im thinking that maybe a tiny bit of the lifter chipped out and landed on in it, wonder where that went then lol

[Rexer]

New cam and followers/bearings are in, what a bugger of a job to get the timing belt out, much easier on a PASSAT

Got pretty much all of the bolts that i was advised (by crasher) to get, £100 just for the cam bearing cap bolts and injector rocker bolts :zx11:, £35 for the water pump plus the sur charge, still i get £45 back if i take them my old one

£20 for a cam seal :zx11: probably could have got that cheaper at a bearing suppliers but hay ho.

That bloody engine mount, so over complicated and wont come out without taking the water pump out, good job i was changing it anyway

Tomorrow i will chuck it back together and see how it runs :D

[Crasher]

One fantasy I have, not a nice one. Me, a baseball bat, a closed room and the ****** who designed that engine mount, twenty minutes, that’s all I ask and they will never do that again…

[Rexer]

One fantasy I have, not a nice one. Me, a baseball bat, a closed room and the ****** who designed that engine mount, twenty minutes, that’s all I ask and they will never do that again…

Amen brother lol

[Rexer]

Well today has been a day of progress, cam belt is on, new water pump, idler and tensioner fitted, and I worked out how to get that poxy engine mount in and out without taking the water pump out. Take out the two bolts holding the power steering pipe to the back of the block and it gives a little move room to manoeuvre the bugger out.

Next job...... Start it up and rev it to 2k for 20 minutes then dump the new oil for some more new oil ;)

Anyone know if the injector rockers need re-setting ?

[Crasher]

Have you fitted a new cam, rockers or injectors?

[Rexer]

Just a new camshaft and followers mate

[Rexer]

All done and running good, ran the cam in at 2000 rpm for 20 minutes changing the revs every few minutes, will take it for a spin later. Pig of a job but enjoyed it. Probably won't do another as I gave up mechanics for a new career a few years back ( unless the passat does the same ) lol

Cheers for all the tips guys

[Rexer]

Took it for a blast and it runs better than it ever has.
Will keep an eye on the fuel consumption over the next week or two but not sure it needs any fine tuning, will have a gander on vagcom to make sure the timing is spot on but the way its running now i doubt it needs adjusting.

Job done :beerchug:

[alaric]

Hi all. I think our '02 Golf GT TDI 150 camshaft is failing as it has the same symptoms. I've read through the thread. Can you advise where to get parts. We were planning to sell the car. It only has 60k miles on it so I think it's worth repairing before we sell it.

Sean.

[Crasher]

If you were keeping it I would say genuine parts only, if you are getting rid, there are plenty of after market supplies of ARL cams and parts on fleaBay.

[alaric]

Hi. I'm trying to work out what special tools I'll need. I have the ARL engine, and have bought the T10050 crankshaft timing tool.

We replaced the cam belt about 8 months ago, so do I need to remove the whole belt? Is it possible just to slip it off the top sprocket and leave the bottom half of the engine alone?

Will I need a special puller to remove the camshaft hub? It looks like the camshaft sprocket is held on with three bolts on my engine. Will I be able to get these out easily?

Finally my local VW dealership is not the brightest place on earth. Is there an online supplier of genuine parts that could help me get the parts?

Thanks.

Sean.

[Crasher]

You need the crank locking plate and cam locking pin. One tool that will cause you issues not having is the puller to get the pulley hub off of the old cam which is held on with a central bolt and goes onto a tapper, it is easy to damage the hub and they cost £77.94.

[alaric]

Thanks Crasher. I'll make sure I get a suitable puller - I have some already so probably it's worth waiting to see if anything fits. I have our replacement car up and running now so the Golf is about to retire to the carport for open heart surgery... I hope you don't mind if I ask questions as I go through the work - I may end up chickening out and sending it off to a garage of course. The first one I asked declined the work though so that doesn't bode well.

Regards.

Sean.

[Crasher]

You can ask as many questions as you like, also if you want to have a talk, give me a call on 0115 9785740 but it is best between 5 and 5.30pm if that is possible. I understand why a general garage would decline to do it, its not a nice job and has huge potential for serious cockups.