2011 MOT changes

[rapport25]

From December 2011 they will be checking if your car has an aftermarket hid kit and a remap :(. Both equal a fail :confused: Clicky (http://wrecks2riches.co.uk/2010/10/2011-changes-to-mot/) for the news article.


As you can guess I will defend aftermarket hid's as I have those fitted :D. Mine have been set and with the same kit they use to mot your car.

Also being projector type headlights they project a far better beam pattern than a reflector kit.

On my previous car which had standard bulbs and reflector headlights. I would get flashed nearly all the time as they seemed to dazzle on coming drivers. Had them checked on more that one occasion and they were fine.

In the passat I have never been flashed. So that says to me that projector headlights are far better than reflector. You can tell when someone has aftermarket hid's in reflector lenses as they dazzle you when they pass :aargh4::aargh4:. Also most seem to have 8000k very blue which attracts a lot of attention mainly the police.


I would never fit an aftermarket hid kit to a reflector headlight.

As for remaps? I really cant understand how this effects an mot :confused:

[DSG4ME]

I'm afraid I'm not going with you on this one Rappy, I'm sick of getting two floodlights in the face from some idiot kid in a Saxo, they are dangerous imo, and I agree they should be taken out asap, might light the road nicely, but they blind the oncoming ime.

Sorry mate, y'know I back you most times, but not on this one.

[Guest 2]

Don't know if this applies in the 'new' mainland MOT, but now in Northern Ireland you will get an automatic fail if your airbag light is illuminated whereas before it was only the engine management light which needed to be off.

And I'm with you DSG4ME on the HIDs, I hate them. They are stupid seeing them on modified cars because it's obvious they aren't setup correctly. Grr.

[rapport25]

I'm afraid I'm not going with you on this one Rappy, I'm sick of getting two floodlights in the face from some idiot kid in a Saxo, they are dangerous imo, and I agree they should be taken out asap, might light the road nicely, but they blind the oncoming ime.

Sorry mate, y'know I back you most times, but not on this one.

I know you do :beerchug: as a fellow sport owner :biglaugh:

I agree with what you are saying and thats my point. Dont put aftermarket kits in reflector headlights and yes the saxo's are :aargh4::aargh4:.


I'm not a fan of being blinded by on coming traffic and these sure do. And fog lights!!!.

I spent a lot of time looking into hid's before purchasing mine. And my friend has said if you have projector lenses no problem. They even make a hid bulb now with a cap on the top to stop the scatter that these headlights create. But this is fairly new. I think they call the bulbs h7r's r for reflector headlights.

Like I said mine have been checked and they are 100% correct. Not saying they are legal though

Rappy :D

[kodkod.84]

I totally agree with the incorrect HID set-up being a MOT failure- they are a right pain in the **** blinding oncoming traffic. This is why they need to have auto-levelling and washers too, a fact that many people omit when they retro-fit them.

Not too clued up on this matter but I can't see why a remap would be a fail though as I thought a decent quality one has a lot of thought put into it and is just making the best of the cars ability, or are they perhaps targeting the naff eBay 'chips' which overfuel the engine.

[esse_esse]

HIDs HIDs if you are going to mod your car do it properly if not then why bother. Each car and owner are completely different to the next......If you put in the correct kit the correct way then IMHO they won't be any of this blinding other people business. This also applies to idiots who do not bother replacing headlights and drive around with one or the ones who fit them incorrectly and you have one sitting ok and a blinding one

As for the fog light thing Rappy you know where I stand:D.

I'm ok with whatever changes the one thing I don't want is some idiot to plug in their kit to my car and mess things up in there:aargh4:

[Crasher]

From December 2011 they will be checking if your car has an aftermarket hid kit :(

Yehhhh, and about time too :D:D:D:D:D

[Zeb]

I totally disagree, with the HID kit failure. Why should I spend money on them cheap yellow bulbs? HID should not be a MOT failure! This is a complete S... :mad:

As for remaps, I think this should be allowed cause it's your vehicle and you can do whatever you want. You have all the rights, in modifying your car! Why should I listen to someoene else? At the end of the day, it's my choice and have total control of my transport.

This is the dumbest law, and a complete mess :mad::mad::mad:

[esse_esse]

I totally disagree, with the HID kit failure. Why should I spend money on them cheap yellow bulbs? HID should not be a MOT failure! This is a complete S... :mad:

As for remaps, I think this should be allowed cause it's your vehicle and you can do whatever you want. You have all the rights, in modifying your car! Why should I listen to someoene else? At the end of the day, it's my choice and have total control of my transport.

This is the dumbest law, and a complete mess :mad::mad::mad:

Someone not happy ei:D Like I said no probs with it as along as it's done proper:beerchug:

[Crasher]

I am sick of being blinded by cars coming the other way with illegal HID kits, it is against the law to use them and they should be banned. I have no problem with cars factory fitted with properly designed HID lamps and I sympathise with those who like to have HID’s when they have projector headlights but HID bulbs in standard H4/H7 headlights are dangerous. My car has standard type headlights and using decent bulbs the light output is perfectly acceptable.

[esse_esse]

but HID bulbs in standard H4/H7 headlights are dangerous. My car has standard type headlights and using decent bulbs the light output is perfectly acceptable.

Agreed on that

I use uprated 90% H7s/H1s in mine anad have to say they are awsome...They emit a nice white light, sit properly and are legal:beerchug:

[Eshrules]

as good as the intentions are of the improved MOT standards, boy racers will still ignore the rules.

All you'll get, as you do already with certain modifications, is the car being prepped for the MOT, then reverted to it's modified status.

My opinion of HID's retrofitted to vehicles is already known.

[afghandaz]

How will they check you have a remap?

They cant do that with the majority of standard equipment an MoT tester has?

Have you seen an MoT testers tool board!!!

[Eshrules]

at risk of stating the obvious, they clearly intend to expand the MOT testers tool bank

[mikecb1]

x2

Mike

[g-black]

I run a 5000k 35w HID kit and for me there too blue. I'm switching to 4300k bulbs. I get my lights set every 6 months to MOT standard. There in the passats B6 projector headlights and I've never been flashed.

I tried to avoid putting in HIDs but couldn't get any decent bulbs to light the road up out of the rubbish headlights on the Passat.

In reflector headlights, there a deffinate fail. The scatter of light is blinding and distracting. Just as bad as fog lights!!

[rapport25]

I run a 5000k 35w HID kit and for me there too blue. I'm switching to 4300k bulbs. I get my lights set every 6 months to MOT standard. There in the passats B6 projector headlights and I've never been flashed.

I tried to avoid putting in HIDs but couldn't get any decent bulbs to light the road up out of the rubbish headlights on the Passat.

In reflector headlights, there a deffinate fail. The scatter of light is blinding and distracting. Just as bad as fog lights!!

Could not agree more G Black :approve:. As for the colour I Think 6000k looks about right. I was in front of a vw the other day with hids and they looked the same as mine.

[rapport25]

Found this maybe not 2011 after all :approve:

http://www.edinburghcruise.co.uk/ecvb/showthread.php?9302-**-New-MOT-Law-s-(Dec-2011)-**

[johnloaderuk]

All HID's must also be fitted with a self levelling system and wash system too https://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/drs/hidheadlamps

I have to say the standard headlights on my Passat are pretty poor on dipped beam, but my wife also has a Passat with factory fitted HID's which are great - and legal.

[phil miller]

How will they check you have a remap?

They cant do that with the majority of standard equipment an MoT tester has?

Have you seen an MoT testers tool board!!!

I cant see how the re map issue can be tested, and i also cant see how VOSA are going to have it sorted within a year, it wont happen this year thats for sure

when they went computerisd mots about 6 yrs ago they had been saying it would happen for 6 yrs, at work we keptd hearing from VOSA that in 10 months we will have to have this and that, it wont happen end of

now as for HIDs i use them, i love them and mine dont dazzel anyone as they have been set correctly, if my car failed (witch it wont :approve:) i would simply put H7's in for the test, same as anyone else, the MOT testers guide states the as long as the beam pattern and height are within the zone you cant fail it

[Zeb]

Wouldn't it be easier, if I take the xenons bulbs out and, replace them with the old crappy yellow H7 bulbs? Thats unless if they check underneath the hood, then I'm screwed!

[zollaf]

how can you tell a car has been remapped ? i dont think you can with a normal diagnostic computer, can you, unless you compare live fuelling data with a spec sheet, or put it on a rolling road. then the tester would have to prove its been mapped, and not just incidentally running a bit more power. and what about larger turbos, or any other power increasing device, such as a K&n airfilter, or a hyclone ? and they would also have to ban high lift cams and bigger injectors, so basically any mod would be a fail. its just not going to happen.

[patomlin76]

only guessing but wouldn't a remap be easily identified by something similar to software revisions... one look at ecu data and they would surely know its been modified, even though it may all be in 000s and 11111s....

[rapport25]

I cant see how the re map issue can be tested, and i also cant see how VOSA are going to have it sorted within a year, it wont happen this year thats for sure

when they went computerisd mots about 6 yrs ago they had been saying it would happen for 6 yrs, at work we keptd hearing from VOSA that in 10 months we will have to have this and that, it wont happen end of

now as for HIDs i use them, i love them and mine dont dazzel anyone as they have been set correctly, if my car failed (witch it wont :approve:) i would simply put H7's in for the test, same as anyone else, the MOT testers guide states the as long as the beam pattern and height are within the zone you cant fail it

As for the remap. I was reading on a site yesterday forgot to post it here guys sorry. It will take a few years to introduce. Basically VOSA will have a data base stating what your cars standard setup should be based on your chasis/reg.

When they Mot your car they will have all your cars data and plug into your port in the car.If your cars data does not match its an instant fail.

As for the Hids or any light. Any lights that are not fitted/set correctly will dazzle drivers and fail an Mot.

Apparently Mot testers will be shown what to look for if you have a hid kit.

Time to hide the ballast's me thinks :biglaugh:.

3 ways to spot a Hid kit. A grommit in the back of the headlight cover for the ballasts.

A little ballast mounted close to the headlight.

When switching on a hid kit you will notice a different colour at start up going from a purple/blue colour then to white. Takes a few mins for the arc to stabilise.

After that looks no different.

As for self leveling and headlamp wash. Its down to common sense adjust your headlight level as you would normally depending on the weight in the car. As for headlamp wash clean you cars lights regularly. Not all standard cars fitted with hids have both self leveling and headlamp wash. So not really sure how they can inforce this.

I will be leaving mine as. If it fails standard bulbs back in for the test. Then replace with my hid kit.

I agree technology has moved on but there are to many variables.

There are ways around both. Some remap give the option to switch back to service mode as they call it. Standard set up.

Also remove you hid's then re fit after the test.

I would be interested to see if the internals of a projector headlight with a hid kit is any different to a projector headlight with halogen.I would imagine not.

A projector headlight projects the light so I would imagine its the same.

A standard halogen reflector hedlight reflects all the bright light out and you get scatter hence blinding on coming drivers and no control over the beam.

These headlight are designed for halogen bulbs.

I know you can get standard headlights with reflectors but the way they reflect the light would be different.

[Brydo666]

It's a shame to hear that they are going to start failing cars with aftermarket HID kit's... I've been using them since 2005 and intend to fit them to my B6 when the weather improves.

That said, using them in reflector headlamps is a bit crazy - they can be blinding and I'll admit that I used them in reflector headlamps in my Seat Toledo & Seat Ibiza... I didn't get flashed too often but it did happen.

No issues with them fitted in my B5.5 Passat, though next time I'll be going for 4300K as I think these are closest to OEM.

It would be good though to have them allowed in certain circumstances, perhaps things like only cars with OEM projector headlights (Not cheap aftermarket ones), headlamp washers and receipt of fitting from a VAT Registered workshop.

Even then though it has issues, the hassle of administration if the registration is changed, the cost involved (Which will have VAT added), the frequency of being checked against the mileage of the car, and if the car is in an accident should it be tested again? Perhaps some of these issues are why they're saying no... VOSA clearly think the current halogen lamps are acceptable.

I'm also still not convinced that this is genuine, it's very easy to knock up a couple of these documents and upload to start a rumor.

[rapport25]

It's a shame to hear that they are going to start failing cars with aftermarket HID kit's... I've been using them since 2005 and intend to fit them to my B6 when the weather improves.

That said, using them in reflector headlamps is a bit crazy - they can be blinding and I'll admit that I used them in reflector headlamps in my Seat Toledo & Seat Ibiza... I didn't get flashed too often but it did happen.

No issues with them fitted in my B5.5 Passat, though next time I'll be going for 4300K as I think these are closest to OEM.

It would be good though to have them allowed in certain circumstances, perhaps things like only cars with OEM projector headlights (Not cheap aftermarket ones), headlamp washers and receipt of fitting from a VAT Registered workshop.

Even then though it has issues, the hassle of administration if the registration is changed, the cost involved (Which will have VAT added), the frequency of being checked against the mileage of the car, and if the car is in an accident should it be tested again? Perhaps some of these issues are why they're saying no... VOSA clearly think the current halogen lamps are acceptable.

I'm also still not convinced that this is genuine, it's very easy to knock up a couple of these documents and upload to start a rumor.

Fingers crossed :approve:. Has any Mot testers heard about this? Hid Origin can you help/Give some adivse as a supplier of hid's?

Just been on Vosa's website and no mention of this :approve:.

[Crasher]

i would simply put H7's in for the test

The problem with that is IF you are involved in an accident it may come to light :D that you have HID lights and that could involve a prosecution and a loss of insurance cover. Personally I am very happy about the intended ban of HID lights, in fact I think it should be made a criminal offence to sell them BUT I am not at all happy about the proposed ban on remaps, I don’t see the point.

[rapport25]

The problem with that is IF you are involved in an accident it may come to light :D that you have HID lights and that could involve a prosecution and a loss of insurance cover. Personally I am very happy about the intended ban of HID lights, in fact I think it should be made a criminal offence to sell them BUT I am not at all happy about the proposed ban on remaps, I don’t see the point.

I see your point. In a nut shell drive with a car with a hid kit and a remap and this could involve prosecution and or loss of insurance cover mmmmm.

I guess its a no win either way :(.

[zollaf]

spoke to my tester this morning and he had not heard of any of it. said its impossible to test for a remap due to the costs involved, and how can someone be certain its got hids fitted, enough to fail a test and state the car is un roadworthy.

[Brydo666]

The remap claim is a funny one, this is what leads me to believe this isn't genuine.

A remap is a modification to the car that is acceptable (At the moment) to drive with so long as your insurance is aware the car is modified. Strictly speaking it doesn't make the car non-roadworthy.

The only reason, at a real push I think a remap could be considered an MOT failure is the stress it may put on other parts of the car or how if affects the pollution levels for road taxing purposes.

Although it only makes a small noise, an aftermarket air filter could be considered as a performance modification too - in high powered cars (Say a Subaru Impreza) it could provide a greater performance increase than a remap in a low powered car (Say 1.2 VW Polo) so it's strange that isn't considered also.

[zollaf]

you could take a mk1 escort 1.3, stick a twin turbo rover v8 in it and do no other mods. this would be considered dangerous, as the brakes would not be up to the job, but it would still get an mot, as long as the brakes worked well enough on the rollers. also, if this new legislation is true, can we say goodbye to rallying, i think not. seb loeb competing in a standard c4 ???

[Brydo666]

you could take a mk1 escort 1.3, stick a twin turbo rover v8 in it and do no other mods. this would be considered dangerous, as the brakes would not be up to the job, but it would still get an mot, as long as the brakes worked well enough on the rollers. also, if this new legislation is true, can we say goodbye to rallying, i think not. seb loeb competing in a standard c4 ???
A valid point, I'm thinking more and more that this is nonsense. Someone wanting to start a rumor for some unknown reason?

[Zeb]

I spoke to my brother about this, and he goes they are chatting S**T! They can never find out whats been done to the car.

I think it's a load of £$%^&&* :D

[Quatrelle]

Going down that road, I wonder if it's leading to the introduction of homologation laws similar to those that exist in France, where just about any deviation from manufacturer's spec is outlawed.

My 884cc Bandit is illegal here because Suzuki only ever made them in 600/1200cc form - it's ok in the UK.

[afghandaz]

This is the newsletter I read from the VOSA site.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/MoT%20-%20Issue%2048%20-%20Oct%202010.pdf


It looks like VOSA's not made any decisions yet and wont be in force until Jan 2012.

Sorry if someones already posted this link, just did it while it was in my mind.

Daz

[Brydo666]

After reading the newsletter fully I think some of that could be true, the electrical wiring for example... I think failing an MOT for say example a frayed wire within your engine bay is acceptable.

No remapping is mentioned, it mentions engine level chipping - these may be more like those cheap resistors that overfuel the car for more power?

[johnloaderuk]

. Not all standard cars fitted with hids have both self leveling and headlamp wash

All factory fitted HID equipped cars do have self levelling and headlamp wash - it's a legal requirement of this type of headlight. Follow the link in my previous post to the Department for Transport regulations for HID's - it's quite clear.

[phil miller]

ive been thinking about this over the weekend and spoke to Chriss at CCturning yesterday, i think if it is introduced it will be for all cars from a set date, IE july 2011, and if re mapping is banned then they have to ban every mod, even done to ss brake hose's as its a change to the OE set up of the car

what next will they try and ban a headunit change, muppets

[rapport25]

Due to the thread on the oem hids please read this one.

Rappy.

[newb1e]

I believe it's all rumours.

MOT is there to make sure cars are roadworthy. Now I could understand HIDs fitted incorrectly could lead to serious consequences, but a remap?? My car has been remapped, it doesn't mean it's not roadworthy. I'd love to see how they enforce this.

[johnloaderuk]

My car has been remapped, it doesn't mean it's not roadworthy. I'd love to see how they enforce this.

While it doesn't make your car unroadworthy there are many people who don't inform their insurance company of any modifications, thereby running the risk of not being insured - and driving without insurance is very close if not the same to drink driving in my mind.

To enforce this they could quite simply make it illegal to advertise, manufacture, supply or fit aftermarket tuning equipment to road going vehicles in the future. Time will tell.

[phil miller]

While it doesn't make your car unroadworthy there are many people who don't inform their insurance company of any modifications, thereby running the risk of not being insured - and driving without insurance is very close if not the same to drink driving in my mind.

To enforce this they could quite simply make it illegal to advertise, manufacture, supply or fit aftermarket tuning equipment to road going vehicles in the future. Time will tell.

altho a very valid point, there are problems with this, 1, how would an mot tester know what size discs my car should have?
2, how would a tester be able to check if there is a K&N air filter? remember they arent allowed to use any tools to speak of

my point is most car makers across the board will use odd bits here and there, i know of a 1.9 TDI golf that has 312mm GTI spec brakes, they have owned it from new and as they are in there late 60s im sure the old boy hasnt changed them lol

if and this is a very big IF they did do something along these lines, imagine the paper work involved in doing the extra checks, the cost of a test would double without a doubt

[rapport25]

While it doesn't make your car unroadworthy there are many people who don't inform their insurance company of any modifications, thereby running the risk of not being insured - and driving without insurance is very close if not the same to drink driving in my mind.

To enforce this they could quite simply make it illegal to advertise, manufacture, supply or fit aftermarket tuning equipment to road going vehicles in the future. Time will tell.

Johnloaderuk makes a very valid point :approve:. I never really looked at it that way :(.

Any deviation away from your car's standard spec will invalidate your insurance.

While I agree aftermarket hids should be band. I think this should only apply to kits that are not fitted and tested correctly :approve:.

The main issues are:-

(1) Headlamp type. Reflectors a big no no. Projector no problem.


(2) Self leveling again. As mentioned in the oem thread about hids they are
suppose to adjust to variations in the road. Lost count of the number of times I have been blinded by a range rover with factory fitted Hid's :aargh4:.


(3) Headlamp wash. While I can understand the reason for this with hids being brighter. I always make sure my lights are clean. Every 2 to 3 days I will give the lights a clean if the road conditons have been bad rain/or lots of salt on the roads.

I would love to see a test with a halogon projector lense and a hid projector lense. I think you will find they are the same.


My car has been set up on the same kit that the mot testers use so they are correct and legal in there operation.

I have even had Mrs Rappy follow me drivng the sat and mine dont dazzle. Also I have been parked up and had Mrs Rappy drive towards me again no dazzle.

So while you have a valid point John. Mine dont casue the problems that incorrectly fitted hid's have.

But in the eyes of the law they are not legal!!! :aargh4:

I find it ironic as my friend was fitting aftermarket hid's to the police patrol cars many years ago. As they could see:D the benefit. I think it was on the big vauxhall omega's with projector lenses I think he said.

[Quatrelle]

if and this is a very big IF they did do something along these lines, imagine the paper work involved in doing the extra checks, the cost of a test would double without a doubt
And the cost of training MoT testers to spot these things - there are almost 120 checks for a French MoT. What's it like in the UK now?

[newb1e]

While it doesn't make your car unroadworthy there are many people who don't inform their insurance company of any modifications, thereby running the risk of not being insured - and driving without insurance is very close if not the same to drink driving in my mind.

To enforce this they could quite simply make it illegal to advertise, manufacture, supply or fit aftermarket tuning equipment to road going vehicles in the future. Time will tell.

I see your point. But MOT shouldn't be used to detect things other than cars' roadworthiness.

If people fail to declare things in their insurance, it should be the insurance companies' responsibility to find the best course of action. They normally like to increase premiums for innocent individuals, in case they claim when they're involved in an accident with an uninsured driver.

Moreover if they are that concerned, I suppose they can always create a new test to enforce tuning. However, again, very difficult to impose. It would disappoint a lot of Max Power boys. :D

[phil miller]

And the cost of training MoT testers to spot these things - there are almost 120 checks for a French MoT. What's it like in the UK now?

well over here now its got silly as in you can only fail what the computer says so a noisey wheel bearing is only a fail if it feels rough when rotated :confused:, most MOTs take about 40/50mins and id say 20mins of that is used up by checking the emissions and putting the data in to the computer, if they bring in even some of what is in this thread it will be a nightmare, the MOT is not as good as it was 15 yrs ago imho, common sense has gone out the window
here is a scenario, a fiesta (m reg) is tested and fails on a tyre, bottom arm a pin hole in the outer sill and a front side light bulb
after id done the repairs (the other tester tested it) i took it for a drive to check everything, i got to about 20mph and all i could hear was a droning wheel bearing, so i jacked it up spun the wheel and could just about hear the wheel bearing was gone, this is not a fail, but IMHO that is more dangerous than a front side light bulb, but because it wasnt rough when rotated it cant fail you can only advise it, now the customer has a NEW mot cert and by law doesnt have to do any of the adviserys, in my eyes that bearing could let rip at any time
i will rethink being a tester if they change anymore to it as its getting beyond a joke now and i wont have it on my concience if something bad happened to a car i tested, its just not worth it