Quattro Replacement. 4Motion?

[paulcockermouth]

Hi,
I have an Audi A6 3.0tdi quattro that has 85k on the clock. I have had it 18 months (the longest I have kept a car for years!) and am in need (or should I say want) an estate. Now, living in the Lake District means the quattro is quite useful (my road is small and not often gritted etc).
A few questions:
1)Do I really need 4x4? Would winter tyres get me places the quattro (on performance tyres) gets?I like the 'feeling of safety/traction' of 4x4 in this bad weather but I'm not sure if it is really necessary!
2)If I go 4x4 how does the haldex passat compare to the quattro of a4/a6?
3)Am I going to regret going from 225bhp to 140bhp?!

Thanks

[Cylon2007]

I have never owned an Audi Quattro but I did have a B5.5 Passat TDI Sport 4motion for 3 1/2 years (should never have got rid) and it was an excellent car in all ways, comfy, good performance and economy, never had any grip issues (I had Michelin Pilot Primacy's fitted throughout). It was great in snow, wet, mud/grass and I regularly towed a twin bike trailer that was around half a ton fully loaded, I would highly recommend a 4motion, as I said I wish I hadn't got rid of mine on may ways it's a better car than my current B6.

[adamss24]

No haldex quattro will be as good as a propper Torsen quattro so be carefull ...

[logiclee]

If you go 4 motion then you are going to have to look at an older PD engined cars as 4 motion was dropped from the diesel line up around 2007 I believe.

I dropped from 220bhp 3.0 V6 Petrol to a 140bhp diesel when I bought the Passat, the dsg makes it lively enough off the line but overtaking at higher speeds takes a bit more planning.

I have winter tyres on my fwd car my thoughts are here
http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=111586

I've owned several permanent torque spilt AWD cars, Saphire Cosworth, Impreza's etc and they are great, but you just dont get the same handling from a haldex type of vehicle that shifts torque about when traction is lost. You do get plenty of traction but not that pin point surefootedness

So for me I'd forget the 4 motion and by a FWD with common rail diesel and kit it out with some winter tyres.

Cheers
Lee

[adamss24]

Try putting more than 200 ponnies on a slippery road/roundabout without torsen quattro is a bit of a chalenge ! I have driven a few haldex quattros and they are not the real deal, twitchy and i hate the slip, grip,slip effect of the haldex. All of all the AWD drive you had mate only impreza comes close as a torsen equipped diff, the rest had viscous coupling wich are not so quick to react in the event of a slip. The audi system is 0.2 sec. quicker than the subaru's system but the subaru is lighter ! Here's your pub facts !

[techfreak]

Whats the 4motion like on a bora? Looking at the 130bhp around 2002-5 range

[logiclee]

All of all the AWD drive you had mate only impreza comes close as a torsen equipped diff, the rest had viscous coupling wich are not so quick to react in the event of a slip. The audi system is 0.2 sec. quicker than the subaru's system but the subaru is lighter ! Here's your pub facts !

I rather liked the Ford setup, I had 4, a 2.9iV6 4X4, another V6 with turbo technics and then the 2.0 Cossies. The epicyclic centre viscous diff had a 2:1 transfer box that essentially sent power 60% to the rears and 40% front and the rear axle also had a viscous LSD. The setup was very progressive and by modern standards the cars were very light. The cosworth weighs the same as my wife Skoda Fabia, the V6 only 40kg heavier. They drove like rear wheel drive cars but with more grip, lovely powerslides in the wet.

The Impreza setup offers more traction but not as much fun, you can push it into oversteer but the general tendancy is for understeer. The older STI RA's and the newer higher spec STi's get the DCCD Driver Controlled Centre Differential that allow adjustment from near RWD only to a 50/50 split. The difference it make to the cars handling is unreal.

I drive quite a few softroaders in this weather through work and I borrow my Dad's Jeep Patriot, all have the FWD with power shifted rear when slip detected type systems and yes they have good traction you still have to put up with the front end scrabble and the esp working overtime.

Cheers
Lee

[glass]

Hi all

I'm new here and just bought a 4Motion.

Initial reviews - I feel no difference in driving experience in the cockpit between this and my previous FWD car - should I?

[johnloaderuk]

Hi all

I'm new here and just bought a 4Motion.

Initial reviews - I feel no difference in driving experience in the cockpit between this and my previous FWD car - should I?

Should feel no different. The Passat 4Motion uses a Haldex coupling system that sends 90% drive to the front wheels under normal driving, 10% to the rear, and only sends more drive to the rear wheels when it senses the front is loosing grip/slipping etc. Follow the link for further info.

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/technology/transmissions-and-drivetrains/4motion

[glass]

OK

So basically, the machine does everything under the hood and deliberately keeps me off noticing it? Nice :D .

I was expecting a little more 'grunt' - though now with a 140, down a tad from a 150, I'm not sure what to expect.

[logiclee]

With systems like the 4 motions Haldex in high traction situations like dry tarmac or iwhen n higher gears you are at a slight power disadvantage to the standard FWD models.
In driving conditions where you are not going to loose traction both the FWD and 4 motion will run as a FWD car but the 4 motion has extra weight and extra transmission losses to contend with.

The 4 motion is at an advantage in situations where the FWD car would loose traction such as pulling out of a junction in the wet or on mud and snow. The FWD car would have its power cut by the traction control but the 4 motion would transfer torque to the rear wheels.

The 4 motion type setup doesnt really enhance handling or drivability the way a quattro or Impreza type setup would.

Cheers
Lee

[techfreak]

Should feel no different. The Passat 4Motion uses a Haldex coupling system that sends 90% drive to the front wheels under normal driving, 10% to the rear, and only sends more drive to the rear wheels when it senses the front is loosing grip/slipping etc. Follow the link for further info.

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/technology/transmissions-and-drivetrains/4motion

I always thought passat was true 4x4 torsien not haldex

[dan.taylor.1]

Considering the a4 b6 and the passat are basically the same id have thought the diff would be similar, the b6 a4 is torsen.

Dan

[scotty33]

It gets confusing, B5.5 passat was the same as b5 A4 i.e full time 4wd with torsen rear diff. both longitudinal mount engines with 01 series transmission.
B6 passat has transverse mounted engine like the Golf so has the haldex and 02(?) series transmission that goes with it