front wing corrosion

[Irri_Tant]

Just a note for those that either have not seen the TSB or need a copy for their records.


Please check out page 4 of this thread, post #33 by Audicab.....Its there for you.




downloaded the above Golf file


Is there a pdf file for the Passat issue?

[JimC64]

Not as far as I'm aware, have checked extensively and cannot find.

The Golf one relates to Passat and Jetta as well I believe

[Irri_Tant]

Not as far as I'm aware, have checked extensively and cannot find.

The Golf one relates to Passat and Jetta as well I believe

OK. I'll use the Golf one if needed

[Irri_Tant]

Wrote on their FB page to start with.
https://www.facebook.com/VolkswagenUK

[JimC64]

Hi there, I understand your frustration, but don't think this is the best way to start your discussions on this.

Be careful as it may harm your outcome. Personally and if I was to go through it again, that would be the last resort.

I would follow what has went on & worked for so many before.

Just my 2c and totally up to you.

Good luck

[nas_hudd]

Hi guys, just had an update from VW. They are not offering me anything whatsoever. They are still claiming that this is caused by "MECHANICAL RUBBING" of the padding behind the wheel arch and is therefore only covered by the 3 year warranty. I then asked her if i was to be given a goodwill offering what would it be, she stated i would be offered 10%! WHAT A JOKE!

[nas_hudd]

I just spoke to them again and asked them to send me the offer of 10% goodwill through the post, where do i go from here?

[nas_hudd]

P.S the only reason i asked them to send me a goodwill offer through the post was as they are indirectly admitting it is caused by a fault of their own, this way i can use this as evidence in a small claims court.

Am i thinking along the right lines?

[JimC64]

No you're not mate, put simply.

Please read and re read the posts on this ( I know there's a lot, but they all help )

They ALWAYS offer some good will, although usually it starts around 30% - 50%, then perhaps goes upto 70%

Generally, they ALWAYS state about it being a mechanical fault re the padding that is rubbing and causing this.

You need to go back and explain that you know this is the fault, it was designed and manufactured by them from new at the factory this way, there was nothing you could do about it, you couldn't stop it or avoid it.
Also relay that IT IS covered under the 12 year paint corrosion warranty and you WILL fight them ALL the way on this.

Do all the above, read and re read the posts and use the information already provided, stick to your guns, be prepared to go all the way if necessary and you will win in the end.

These guys are trained to offer as little as possible and to save the company as much as possible, they're good at it.
Just know that you're in the right and don't let them fob you off.

Good luck

[nas_hudd]

I have read through all the posts a few times, it just seems like once they have said what they want to say, that its the end of everything! So should i tell them everything you,ve mentioned above and give them a time e.g. 14 days in which to reply to me?

[JimC64]

Hey there......once they've finished saying what they want to tell you, thats by no means the end of it, unless you allow it to be.

Thats what they want you to think.

Please do yourself a favour, be strong & call them back to discuss further. Before you call gather together all your information in one place easily to hand so you can reference it if need be.

Make them understand you're in this for the long haul and prepared to do whatever is ncessary to make them stand up to the warranty they provided with the car from new.

[Passatawx]

Hi there guys! It's been 2 weeks since I went to Listers Coventry regarding my tailgate and front wings corrosion issue and haven't heard anything back. Should I try to contact them or go there myself again? Cheers.

[Guest 2]

Make a point of keeping on their case, should that be calls or visiting them in person, don't let them think you are backing down.

[Passatawx]

Thanx for the quick reply. I'll go there tomorrow myself! Cheers.

[nas_hudd]

Following our telephone coversation on 03 May 2013 regarding the wheel arch corrosion on your vehicle, I write to confirm the
outcome of my investigation. I apologise for the delay in sending this email.

I was sorry to learn of the issue and I apologise for any inconvenience caused. I appreciate that when you purchase a Volkswagen
your expectations of reliability are high and that any issue is most disappointing. However, as with any manufacturer, there is
always a possibility that an issue may arise during a vehicle's lifetime. It is for this reason that all new Volkswagens are
provided with a 3 year or 60,000 mile warranty and a 12 year Body Protection Warranty.

The 12 year warranty coverrs corrosion which starts inside the frame of the vehicle and works its way out. James Wood, the
Assistant Bodyshop Manager at Huddersfield Volkswagen, has confirmed that issue arose because a pad rubbed the inside of the
wheel arch, compromising the outer surface layer and allowing moisture to penetrate underneath. This caused corrosion which
works form the outside in. For this reason, it is not covered by the 12 year warranty. It may have been covered by the 3 year
warranty which has expired.

When the warranty on a vehicle has expired or when an issue is not covered by warranty, the cost of repairs becomes the owner's
responsibility and there is no obligation on Volkswagen to assist. However, we do look to support customers with repair costs by
offering goodwill contributions. When deciding whether goodwill can be offered, I would consider a number of factors which
include the age and mileage of the vehicle and the loyalty of the customer to our brand.

Having taken these a factors into account, I am pleased to offer a contribution of 10 per cent parts and labour towards the
repair or replacement of the wings on your vehicle.

I appreciate that this is not the outcome for which your were hoping. However, I hope I have explained clearly the reason for
this final decision. Thank you for contacting Volkswagen UK.

Yours sincerely


Meera Chand
Customer Relations Manager
Volkswagen Customer Services Centre

[nas_hudd]

I also told her that I have contacted motorcodes. I told her i would be taking legal action if the outcome was not changed. She told me to write the letter to the legal department. She also said "the outcome will not change". I will be pursuing this further but it just seems like VW are just not bothered! From reading all the other posts, most people had got a result before this stage.

Also is she not contradicting herself when she says:

"The 12 year warranty coverrs corrosion which starts inside the frame of the vehicle and works its way out. James Wood, the
Assistant Bodyshop Manager at Huddersfield Volkswagen, has confirmed that issue arose because a pad rubbed the inside of the
wheel arch, compromising the outer surface layer and allowing moisture to penetrate underneath. This caused corrosion which
works form the outside in. For this reason, it is not covered by the 12 year warranty. It may have been covered by the 3 year
warranty which has expired."

How can it be from the outside in if its caused from behind the paintwork??

[nas_hudd]

I have just spoken to motorocodes again. They said that if they contact vw to pursue the case further, and VW reply with the same statement that they have given me, then there is nothing they can do about it?? They said I would have to get an independent assessor to view the car as their assessment can be used as a legal document.

[JimC64]

They did ALL the same with me Nas.....Its not covered by the 12 yr anti corrosion warranty, but by the 3 year paint warranty, thats now expired Yada Yada Yada.....

They told me ( and many others ) that the outcome would not change either .....yet it did through constant contact fighting to the end.

I am however, surprised that they only offered 10% goodwill.

Personally, I would fight it to the end, threaten to take them to the small claims court to test their warranty in court ( are you pepared to go all the way if necessary? )

I would contact them again in writing giving them 14 days to respond, or change their decision or you will take them to court, tell them you have the TSB in your possession that covers this, heck, even cite my case if needs be ( my reg number should be sufficient ) others may let you do the same, but I would ask first.

Just FYI - Audi as part of the VAG group have made it known that they want to be the biggest / best car manufacturer by 2020 and will do anything to get sales / good results / reviews etc.......The last thing they want is negative press / reviews.

Good luck

[nas_hudd]

Thank you for the quick reply. Honestly, its the advice of helpful forum members like yourself that gives me the hope and will to stick at the case. I will be writing a letter to VW and will threaten them with legal action. I spoke to the CAB who advised me to head the letter "BREACH OF WARRANTY". I can see this being a very lengthy letter. Im going to send it to VW in Sheffield, Milton Keynes, and directly to VW's legal services department. Do you think it would be a good idea to include the TSB with my letter? I am so busy this next week that I'm going to type the letter up next week. If I email you a copy would you mind giving it a quick read once i have written it? Thanks again.

[JimC64]

Nas - no problem mate, what you propose sounds like a plan, the heading "Breach of warranty" makes total sense.

It may be a little extra, but make sure you send it recorded delivery to ensure it arrives safely and you have a record of it, by all means refer to the TSB, but above all ensure you give them 14 days to reply and state that you will offer no further contact, but immediately commence legal proceedings.

Its not necessary to email me a copy of the letter Nas as I'm sure it will be fine.
As you write the letter, please refer to previous posts within this thread for suggestions as to what has went before you.....Its all there for you my friend.

In the unlikely event that all else fails you can take them to small claims court for up to £3000 for around £60 iirc and you would definitely win your case IMO....Further at this point you have a chance to make it known as widely as possible

Good luck

[chipped3]

QUOTE, Meera Chand, VW Customer Services,

"The 12 year warranty covers corrosion which starts inside the frame of the vehicle and works its way out. James Wood, the
Assistant Bodyshop Manager at Huddersfield Volkswagen, has confirmed that issue arose because a pad rubbed the inside of the
wheel arch, compromising the outer surface layer and allowing moisture to penetrate underneath. This caused corrosion which
works form the outside in. For this reason, it is not covered by the 12 year warranty. It may have been covered by the 3 year
warranty which has expired."

THE ABOVE STATEMENT FROM MEERA CHAND IS TOTALLY INCORRECT AND MAKES NO SENSE AT All! It is a dishonest statement intended to prevent honest VW owners from continuing with their legitimate Claims. It should have concluded 'This caused corrosion which works from the inside out......."

The fact is that the foam pad rubs the inside of each front wing where the pad bears on the galvanized inner edge of the wheelarch rubbing away the protective galvanized coating which then allows rust to take hold. Grit and salt etc then over a number of years eat through this wheelarch edge. You are not aware of this until blisters appear on the external vertical paint of the wheelarch at its highest point. They become larger in the sun when the paint is hot. These blisters signify that the metal of the wheel arch has already perforated and therefore clearly falls within VW's 12 year Perforation Warranty.




VW have a legal duty to honour their Guarantee! The fault is entirely caused by their fitting of the foam pad. They did not foresee the problems it would cause. There was nothing you could have done without prior knowledge to prevent this corrosion. No amount of Servicing would have prevented the rust and having the car Serviced by VW was not a condition of their 12 year Perforation Warranty and was never part of the 3 year mechanical warranty. Furthermore it is transferable to any owner of the car within the 12 year period.



My Claim was met in full. 100% contribution with a nearly new Courtesy car supplied . From the initial paint thickness test..... to ascertain that the wing had not been repaired...... to collecting my repaired car, took two months. It was only the threat to take VW to Court and them knowing that I had documented the whole saga with dates and people contacted that they stopped the nonsense of their percentage contribution offers and realised that I would have taken them to court. In some ways I wish that I had. My daughter is a solicitor in London and one of my sons has an Aeronautical degree and works in F1. They deal in facts not fiction.

Please continue with your legitimate Claims and in the process give as much publicity as you can to VW's reluctance to honour their guarantees.

[bricam1]

Not been on in a while due to work. I am astounded that VW are still disputing valid claims against the front wings. The customers should be given a full 100% no quibble repair.
They must know about this forum and this thread.
This must be doing untold damage to VW reputation. Anybody who wants my case reference to quote against there claims can PM me.

[roblightbody]

Hello.

Just joined the forum to research this. My 2004/54 Bora TDI has this exact problem on both front arches. 67K miles.

I'm going to try to get my VW dealer to look at it... I've started reading this topic, but will carry on and read the whole thing before proceeding!

[Hex69]

Hello.

Just joined the forum to research this. My 2004/54 Bora TDI has this exact problem on both front arches. 67K miles.

I'm going to try to get my VW dealer to look at it... I've started reading this topic, but will carry on and read the whole thing before proceeding!

Good luck, I've got a couple of spare matchsticks floating around if you need them. It isn't the lightest of reading at times. :sleeping:

[roblightbody]

Everybody who has this issue, should also check there boot lid around the lights for the registration. My boot lid is rusting there as well. Going back to the garage today to make another claim. Another well known issue as well.

I've now got to page 14 of 28 of this topic, and came across this. My 54 Bora is doing this too. It started rusting here before the wings, and to be honest I was just going to ignore it but if I'm making a claim for the wings, I'll add this in too.

This is my first VW, I bought it 3.5 years ago and its surprised me by being probably the best car I've ever had, even though I just bought it as a relatively cheap boring practical car. This rusting issue is the main problem I've had with it.

[pcplum]

I've read through these posts with great interest. I am currently going through the claims process with VW re rust on my tailgate (B6 Passat estate). I've been offered 75% 'goodwill', which I have refused on the basis that this is a known and common fault. Am expecting phone call #3 from Nick at VW customer care tomorrow with another update.
I will definitely be sticking to my guns on this. Apart from the principle I can't really afford to shell out £320 (25% of new tailgate).
Watch this space...

Oh, does anyone have the specific passat TSB relating to the tailgate/number plate light issue that is causing the corrosion?

Thanks all.

[nas_hudd]

Well I've just written and posted off a letter to VW. Lets see what they have to say in the days to come!

[andy-1]

hi buddy did you have any joy with you wing problem i am just starting as i have 2 wings that are bad at the front oh what is this vw internal bulletin guys are on about that i may need

[Hex69]

hi buddy did you have any joy with you wing problem i am just starting as i have 2 wings that are bad at the front oh what is this vw internal bulletin guys are on about that i may need

Read this thread from the beginning......

[andy-1]

hi pal well i am just starting to proceed with my car as the wings on the front are ****** as i am new to this forum i am trying to do the 10 post so i can pm
how are things going with your claim and what is this vw bulletin that i rad is suppose to be good to have on hand
ok hope to hear cheers andy my email lovedemon4 at h ot mail.dot com thanks

[andy-1]

hi buddy you say that this vw bulletin sheet which i have been sent off a kind chap so does this state they should of done what it says about cutting back the foam to prevent corrosion as that is my problem
now i have got my car booked in for it to have pics taken would it be a good thing to mention about this bulletin i am really ****** off as both wings are getting bad it is a mk v golf 05 plate and just only gone on to 60k
if any good advive to give to me would be a great thank pal

[Dunsmorechap]

Took mine into Listers in Coventry about 6 weeks ago, and talked to them again today. VW are covering the full cost of the repairs to both wings, so quite happy with that. The warranty guy was helpful and haven't really had any of the hassle that I was expecting.

I'd like to thank those that have posted here for all the advice, which certainly helped as I think they knew I would go all the way with this.

[JimC64]

Dunsmorechap - What a great result, and the only one that was right in the end. So glad you got it all sorted mate, really pleased for you.

Thanks also for coming back here and posting about your success, It Will give others hope in their fight too, the more the merrier.

Looking forward to before n after shots as a final confirmation.

[nas_hudd]

Hi, I sent off my letter to both the VW legal department and to my case manager. My case manager rang me today to say that she has received the letter and that she will no longer be dealing with the case, the legal department will. She said she was going to temporarily close the case. She didnt seem at all bothered about the letter i had written. Has anyone who has wrote a letter to VW asking them to cover the costs otherwise they will take them to court had the same response?

[chipped3]

I only had to state to a Customer care guy (name withheld) that I would take them to Court for failing to honour their Bodywork Warranty. He referred it up and rang back as promised with a 100% contribution with courtesy car.
Your result is positive.
You no longer have an intermediary acting for you from the garage and are now dealing with the VW Legal Dept direct who are fully aware what their obligations to you are regarding your claim against their Corrosion Warranty. You are entitled to the same satisfactory outcome that I and many others have received. If the Legal Dept fail to act responsibly I, and I am sure many other Forum members would gladly chip in to fund a test case through the court and give this reluctance by the 'Worlds Largest Car Manufacturer' to meet its customer obligations.
Keep us all posted!

[Dunsmorechap]

Jim - I'll do some before and after pics, can't really see much as it's just bubbling up now, and not easy to see with storm beige paint. It's booked in for the first week in July as I have the car in Germany until then.

It does really surprise me how some dealers can get it sorted and other can't, or won't. It does their reputation no good when they're unhelpful, and now I'm more inclined to use the dealer for other stuff now as they've been good.

[nas_hudd]

Hi chipped3, thanks for the reply. I just hope they have the decency to get back to me as I have no way of contacting the legal department by phone. I gave them 14 days to reply so they have until the 1st of June. I'll just have to wait and see what happens!

[nas_hudd]

Well i rang VW today to try and get a number for the legal department and was told that they do not reply to anyone but solicitors and that there is no contact number from them. I then asked why my case manager had told me to write to the legal department if they only reply to solicitors, and the person speaking to me said that this is what his team leader had told him so he doesnt know. I feel like VW are just tossing my case around all over the place! I now have no idea as whether the letter I wrote has gone to the correct department or not as my case manager told me to send it to the address on their website but told me to replace the VOLKSWAGEN MARKETING with "VW Legal Department". :mad:

Volkswagen Marketing
Yeomans Drive
Blakelands
Milton Keynes
MK14 5AN

[bombdoorsopen]

Folks,
I've been following this thread for a few weeks and have used all your advice. The situation is that my 9 year old passat has horrendous corrosion on both front wings. I took the car into the local dealer to make a warranty claim and they took photos and said they'd get back to me. 1 week later they contacted me, said it was a mechanical fault, but that they would pay 50% of replacement costs as a goodwill jesture.
From this point I followed the advice from this forum - I asked for the VW customer services number and called them. They gave me an email address and I sent them an email, quoting the existence of the note to dealers detailing this fault (details on page 4 of this thread), my understanding that they were signed up to MOTORCODES and that I was claiming under the 12-year anti perforation warranty. The email did not mention court, but explained that VW were legally responsible for the full cost of the replacement under the warranty.
I got a phone call within 48 hours asking for the mileage (140k), followed by a phone call 24 hours later stating that the dealer would replace both wings under warranty and provide a hire car.
In all the process took about 2 weeks, with very little resistance.

A really big thanks to all those that have taken the time to provide the details and experiences on this thread - it has saved me a fortune.

[nas_hudd]

You must be on of the lucky ones! VW are seriously annoying me by the way they have been dealing with my case!

[nas_hudd]

STILL no reply from VW.

[chipped3]

Sorry that I didn't get back to you sooner. I have just bought an AUDI A2 for my wife and my pushing has only just started! Audi seem to be another chip off the VAG blocK!
Do you have any evidence that VW received your letter or are you simply accepting that the lady from the dealership has said that VW legal are handling your case now? But who in the VW Legal Dept? You have a right to know as you have a Warranty! She has been no help to you anyway so I would ask for a copy of the Legal Depts correspondence stating what she has said. If she refuses, ask for her MD's contact details . Ask him to confirm writing that VW Legal are handling your claim and their contact details? Go from there.
You have got this far so just keep pushing. Be polite but firm.

[JimC64]

+1 on the above.

Be polite, be very firm and make sure they understand that you're not going anywhere.

Good luck

[nas_hudd]

Ok, so i rang VW up again today and my case has been passed on to an executive manager. Surprise surprise, she has reviewed my case and the outcome is not going to change. She is adamant that the issue is not covered under the warranty. She explained that any cars that have had the issue covered have had it covered under good will because they were less than ten years old. They do not offer goodwill for cars over 10 years old. She said that this is the final decision and anything i say on the phone will not change her decision. She said she will be contacting the legal team and will be finding out if they have received a copy of my letter. She said she cannot use the outcome of different cases as each case is treated individually. She said even if motorcodes rang them, they would happily explain the outcome to them. I told her that i feel i am being treated unfairly and she responded by saying that my car was over 10 years old and was purchased outside of the vw group so i have not spent any money with vw. I told her that i didnt require that for the 12 year corrosion warranty, to which she again responded that my car was not covered by the 12 year warranty. I read out the section in my handbook in regards to the warranty. She explained that it was not covered as it was not through corrosion and that it was caused by vibrating of the pad etc. I did explain that the pad was not due to fault of my own but this didnt sway her decision either. I asked her how she would define "through corrosion". She responded with "i am not a technician". I told her that she was dealing with my case and was responsible for the outcome so she should have an understanding of what through corrosion actually is. Anyway, she said that the decision was final etc.

I feel so annoyed by this whole situation. Most people have not had to got his far with VW and have had their issues covered. VW do not want to budge at all on their decision. Im going to wait for a response from the legal team, but i feel they will give me the same response. Has anyone ever taken VW to the small claims court? The last thing I want to do is take them to court and end up losing my case! :(

[JimC64]

Whoa - looks like VW are starting to play hardball, although I've seen more & more people getting their issues resolved albeit after some lengthy discussions / phone calls / emails.

Don't know where she's getting the 10 years from, silly woman, its a 12 year anto corrosion warranty!
As for not knowing what through corrosion is and not being a technician enabled to answer your queries thoroughly, I'd be asking to speak to someone wh does, period.

Don't know the content of the letetr you sent?
But depending on circumstances it may have to be resolevd through the small claims court at some point, although perosnally I would just keep on asking the question, through another route if needs be.

Failing all that, you may have to start a small claims procedure, which for a claim of up to £1500 could incur costs of around £300 or so, these would be paid by VW if / when you win your case of course.
Advise them you're not taking this lying down and wil lfollow it through. making it as publicas possible. and that initial discussions have already been held with well known consumer tv programmes ( this is actually a fact as I contacted them some time ago about this )

Keep at it Nas and don't get down hearted..............thats why so many fail and end up losing the will to live and end up paying themselves, which of course is a victory for VW

[mrvillicus]

hi guys, Im also just trying to make a claim, I have emailed VW who have said I need a dealership bodywork warranty manager to actually see it and make a decision on whether it goes ahead or not, Ill include copies of my email replies from them so far and the last one is one I received from Johnsons VW Birmingham which confuses me, have a look...

Subject:
Volkswagen Anti-Perforation Warranty


Reference: VW-2013/05-022348

Dear Mr Bonness

Thank you for your recent request for information on our 12 years Anti-Perforation Warranty. I apologise for the delay in my
response.

I was sorry to learn of the issues outlined in your email and I apologise for any disappointment which this may have caused you.
In order to determine if the corrosion which you have noted can be covered under the terms of the 12 years Anti-Perforation
Warranty, we will require that the vehicle is inspected by your local Volkswagen Retailer. The Warranty Adminstrator of your
local retailer will make a decision on whether the corrosion constitutes through corrosion and can therefore be covered under
the warranty.

The Paint Warranty of your Passat lasts for 3 years from the point of initial registration and therefore is no longer
applicable. Contact details for your local Volkswagen Retailer can be found via the link below:

www.volkswagen.co.uk/find-a-retailer

I hope this information proves useful. If we can be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us on the
number below.

Thank you for contacting Volkswagen UK.

Yours sincerely


Damien Quirk
Customer Relations Manager
Volkswagen Customer Services Centre

ONE RECIEVED TODAY FROM DEALERSHIP

Hello Mr Bonness,

I have received an email asking me to look into a potential bodywork warranty claim for you.

The first thing I should advise you is that unfortunately, we do not have a bodyshop or any staff with bodyshop expertise. We are only able to carry out servicing and mechanical repairs. However, I have been looking into this for you so I can advise you as best as I can. Your car is covered by a 12 year corrosion warranty but I have been advised that there are certain exemptions, ‘edge and fold’ areas such as wheel arches are covered for three years. I have requested further information from Volkswagen to clarify this, and I will come back to you when I have more information.

I’m sorry I couldn’t offer you more advice immediately but I thought I’d be best if I at least responded to your email today so you know someone is looking into this for you. I expect VW to get back to me by tomorrow afternoon, and then I will be in touch with you again.

Kind Regards,

Tim Scott
Warranty Admin
Birmingham Volkswagen

[mrvillicus]

had a reply from the VW dealership basically saying they believe this corrosion will not be covered as it would be classed as...."edge and fold" area? still no follow up from VW though

[JimC64]

It is NOT edge & fold rust, but through corrosion, caused by the foam padding insert put there by them from when the car was new.

It is a design fault, their issue caused by them and the 12 year anti perforation warranty DOES cover it no matter what they tell you.

Its up to you to fight for whats right though

Good luck

[mrvillicus]

thanks Jimc64 Im glad you know about it as I would of just took that and gave up but sod that im in all the way, Ive sent my 4th email now to VW hoping they will get on the case, they tell me the nearest bodyshop is in coventry, im in birmingham, which I find hard to believe, Ill wait until tomorrow and if no reply I'll phone them, thanks for your help

[JimC64]

MrV - Members with these issues like yourself and others need to realise that VW really are "extracting the urine" on this issue.

They are running and hiding from their responsibilities and getting away with murder basically, even for those that they offer 50% - 70% "goodwill" as there's probably about enough there to cover their basic costs, so in effect they're giving nothing really.

Only those that are truly prepared to get involved deep and go to the mat seem to be winning out on this, some need to put in more effort than others too. This seems to be down to the individuals as well as the individual dealers / bodyshops.

Chipped 3 who started this thread, myself and a few others have chased this down hard and till the end to get whats due, more than a dozen or so others have had slightly easier success and won out to get the free fix thats due in the end.

The steps / processes etc and how to go about it are all well documented several times over in this thread, the ammunition you and others need is all there.

Basically its a case of reading all the info, making notes of the key points and going about it methodically, letting those that you deal with know you are not going away and expect a full totally free fix under warranty for a problem that they caused.

I wish you the best of luck, hang on in there..............:beerchug:

[mrvillicus]

great reply, im not going to give in and with all the ammo I have from reading this thread VW will be crying before I give in, I hate huge companies like this that dont honour their warranties etc, at the end of the day I'am their customer and I expect their assistance. I work for The AA and believe me if they dont sort this out I have the power to really really publicise this, I could even put a column regarding it in the AA magazine, which has millions of subscribers so it really is in their best interests to solve this for me, if their fair, then so am I :)

[JimC64]

I too am a fighter of lost causes and hate to be ripped off by companies, large or otherwise.........please rest assured it doesn't happen very often as when I know I'm right I usually get my way one way or another.

I'm assuming you've seen the TSB on this? I think its on page 4 of this post iirc.

Good to know that you're with the AA and may carry a little extra clout that may certainly help you.

As I was going though my case and it started to look a little hopeless I began looking at other options......one of which was a very well known consumer programme usually found on the BBC.
I contacted them about my case and others and they were interested, very interested in taking this up after several emails, phone calls, information, tsb, pics etc sent to them. However as they got more interested and were discussing a visit to photograph the car etc I won my case with VW and it fell through.

I'm sure it may still be on record though as at the time another member or two from here contacted them also, funnily enough...lol

Do fight to the end and you will win your case, I'm positive. Not only will this save you £££ but will give you the satisfaction of knowing you fought for and won what was rightfully yours.............It will also help future readers of this thread and give them the confidence to do the same.

[mrvillicus]

Just had this reply from VW....

From... Volkswagen UK Customer Services To... Mr Ben Bonness Subject: Birmingham Volkswagen


Reference: VW-2013/05-022348

Dear Mr Bonness

Thank you for your most recent emails dated 31 May and 03 June 2013. I apologise for the delay in my response.

I have spoken with Graham in the Service Department at Birmingham Volkswagen with regards to your concerns. Graham has advised
that whilst they do not have an onsite bodyshop, they would be happy to inspect the vehicle for a potential claim under the
Anti-perforation Warranty. He also advised that customers are told that to have such work done at Coventry may be quicker due to
their onsite bodyshop facilities.

Ultimately, if you wish the inspection to be carried out by Birmingham Volkswagen for convenience sake, they will be happy to
accept this booking.

I hope this information proves useful. If we can be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us on the
number below.

Thank you for contacting Volkswagen UK.

Yours sincerely


Damien Quirk
Customer Relations Manager
Volkswagen Customer Services Centre

Tel: 0800 083 3914
E-mail: customerservices@volkswagen.co.uk
Internet: www.volkswagen.co.uk

I will take it to the dealership and see what they say and I'll keep you updated with the progress, Ben

[roblightbody]

Well, tomorrow is my first step - I have an appointment with the warranty manager at Arnold Clark VW in Glasgow.

At this point, as a new VW customer, disappointed that his car has rusted, I can either end up a happy customer likely to buy another VW from them, or an unhappy one who definitely won't. It is entirely up to them! The number of Golfs/Boras/Passats around with rusty front arches is remarkable. I'm especially annoyed because I specifically bought the car because it was galvanised!

One worry is that my car has a few 'dings' - e.g. above the side repeater in the picture below. I simply don't care about dings on a 9 year old car, which is parked on a city street, and I know they haven't affected the rust issue, just concerned they'll use them as an excuse.

I promise to let you all know how I get on. Someone above mentioned freedom of information? I think thats what this forum is.

2098720988

[JimC64]

Rob, deffo looks like the rust issue I and many many others have experienced on the Passat / Golf / Bora and Jettas.

Just check with yourself............Do you find yourself when out driving about and see another VW Golf / Passat / Bora or Jetta............Do you find yourself looking at their front wings?...lol

I know I did....

If you haven't already Rob, you might want to read through this thread from the start, get a copy of the TSB downloaded for your records and sift through the many useful posts with goosd sound advice and proceed from there.

Be prepared for a long & lengthy battle of wits, stand your ground and know you're in the right.

We wish you well and look forward to updates....

[roblightbody]

Update after visit to the dealer this morning.

It's being repaired at no cost to myself. Both wings. They had the vw repair advice in their hand and everything I was told agreed with what's been said in this topic.

All in all a surprisingly pleasant experience, and one which would definitely now encourage me to buy another VW.

[JimC64]

Hey Rob, soo glad you got it resolved at no cost to yourself, as it should be.

Hopefully you found this thread and info within useful and it helped to some degree.

It also sounds like you had one of the easist experiences around on this issue, so glad you didn't have to go to the mat on it.

Its so strange how different dealers, have different attitudes to the same thing though and one that VW should really get a grip on.................Please remember to come back here and post up your progress and how it ends Rob.

It may help others

Thanks

[nas_hudd]

Great result Rob! I agree with whats been written above, its funny how some dealers are so helpful and others just dont seem to care! Personally, I wont ever buy a VW again as I hate the way I have been treated by their customer services team. They have just passed my case around and around. It seems I may have to go down the route of the small claims court. I have no experience in this and would really appreciate it if anyone who has been down this route could be of any help.

Also, can users please PM me with details of their cases and the outcomes as I want to try to use this in court against VW. I know everyone says stick at it and dont give up but I feel this is the last thing I can do. Its very difficult to get them to change their outcome once they say its final. They will not accept anything I say and tell me the case has been closed. It seems impossible to get them to change their mind without taking further action. I thought my letter with a threat to take them to court would have been successful!

[JimC64]

Great result Rob! I agree with whats been written above, its funny how some dealers are so helpful and others just dont seem to care! Personally, I wont ever buy a VW again as I hate the way I have been treated by their customer services team. They have just passed my case around and around. It seems I may have to go down the route of the small claims court. I have no experience in this and would really appreciate it if anyone who has been down this route could be of any help.

Also, can users please PM me with details of their cases and the outcomes as I want to try to use this in court against VW. I know everyone says stick at it and dont give up but I feel this is the last thing I can do. Its very difficult to get them to change their outcome once they say its final. They will not accept anything I say and tell me the case has been closed. It seems impossible to get them to change their mind without taking further action. I thought my letter with a threat to take them to court would have been successful!

Nas - Re the small claims court, type in small claims court procedure ( England and Wales ) as your procedures are different from Scottish law.......everything you need, links / info etc will pop up.

I don't have a case number but you can use my info if you like ( you can find the reg number / info scrolling back through posts ) although VW will instantly tell you they don't take other cases into consideration and treat each case on its own merits.

Did you send a letter to them detailing your case, your contact with them and their responses with dates times etc? In this letter did you advise that if you didn't hear further you would be taking them to the small claims court to test their warranty giving them a time limit to respond?

This is how far I got in the end and like you was a little despondent, but never gave up hope and would have fought until the end.

I would ask to speak to your case manager on this issue and explain your reasoning....You MUST make them believe you are fully committed to go to court if this sin't resolved.

My last contact, after severla emails, several phone calls and finally the letter, was to call them and say, ok you've had the letter and time to respond and haven't, the time is now up, where are we on this?
They responded by saying 70% goodwill was their final offer and that was it.

At that point I told them I had no alternative but to take them to court, and that they would receive no further contact from me on the matter until the case came to court......further that I woul d make it my business to publicise the case as much as possible to raise awareness about the brand, its issues and its customer services and how they wanted to side step responsibility for their factory warranty.

I received a call back literally 10 minutes later advsing full repairs would be undertaken F.O.C.

Other than that I have no more advice my friend, its time to go to court if all else fails.

[Irri_Tant]

Wrote on their FB page to start with.
https://www.facebook.com/VolkswagenUK

Finally got around to going to Lookers in Teesside.

Had to book in for someone to view the car.

Receptionist said they'd have to look up service records, age, mileage etc. Pointed out to her it was a claim on the 'corrosion warranty' and nothing to do with what she mentioned. They are aware of the issue in the branch though. She also said that VW had just changed it's policy on this type or warranty and was being done on a good will basis.

That's were I left it and now await a call next week.

[Irri_Tant]

The steps / processes etc and how to go about it are all well documented several times over in this thread, the ammunition you and others need is all there.

Basically its a case of reading all the info, making notes of the key points and going about it methodically

JimC64

could you or admin put all the info needed in a 'sticky' so it's all readily available please?

[Passatawx]

Today I got an e-mail from Listers VW Coventry, saying that they'll replace the front wings foc provided I can prove the car has fsh. The tailgate though, they're offering 50% and I'll have to pay £484 to have it done if its repairable, if not I'll have to pay £786!!! Any ideas as to where i stand with the tailgate issue? Is it the same situation (warranty wise) as the wings? Thanx for any replies.

[Guest 2]

You do not need fsh so they are only trying toget out of it.

Keep pushing and they will pay the wings and tailgate, don't Give up!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Passatawx]

Thanx a lot for the quick reply! I will reply to them on monday, mentioning everything I've learned from here! Thanx again.

[JimC64]

JimC64

could you or admin put all the info needed in a 'sticky' so it's all readily available please?

Irri_Tant - All the info is there, it doesn't take long to read through, with a little copy n paste if you so wish onto a separate word doc. It'll sink in betteer that way too.


Today I got an e-mail from Listers VW Coventry, saying that they'll replace the front wings foc provided I can prove the car has fsh. The tailgate though, they're offering 50% and I'll have to pay £484 to have it done if its repairable, if not I'll have to pay £786!!! Any ideas as to where i stand with the tailgate issue? Is it the same situation (warranty wise) as the wings? Thanx for any replies.

The warranty is 12 years and DOES NOT require a FSH and you DO NOT have to be the original owner or have to prove brand loyalty.........that is all BS!!

The tailgate issue is separate, but is again well documented on this and other forums.............continue to fight for what is right. You shouldn't have to pay a penny!

[xjay1337]

I am going through this process for the SECOND time with a Golf Mk5.
Originally I had a TDI and went through the process - You can read about it here - http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/p/426503/3248711.aspx#3248711 (and over the next few pages)

I've since changed to a Mk5 GTI.
Originally in my previous case I was offered 70% Goodwill which was raised to 100% after much deliberation and fighting. It was stressful to say the least. Officially it was 70% goodwill, and VW would match whatever my local dealer offered, so the remaining 30% was split 15% by both parties (VW and my local dealer).


I'm now going through the process again, I've only been offered 50% Goodwill this time. I've literally just gotten off the phone with VW Customer "care" and has now been escalated to a Case Manager, and will be hearing back from them within 24-48 hours. Again, as before, they are saying this is not a "corrosion" issue but a "mechanical" issue, I know exactly what the problem is... it's their design!

I expect the same hard fight as before. I was told that VW have stopped topping up the cost to end-dealers for this repair.

It's very odd considering that when my old car was submitted, it was a 2004 Model, with around 120k on the clock, and my GTI is a 2006 plate with 85k on the clock, and I'm getting two completely different results. You would expect the newer, lower mileage car to have more Goodwill?

Not that I am looking for goodwill at all, I'm looking for warranty work.

Currently I would need to pay approximately £350 which is not acceptable. I am not prepared to pay any money for a warranty repair.
I need some other paintwork done, and I would pay £350 for that (bumper and bonnet respray) - So as a last resort I am hoping to speak to my local VW bodyshop, and if they are prepared "top-up" the wing repair so that doesn't cost me anything, I would pay for the bumper and bonnet respray from them. However that will be an absolute last resort.

I will await the outcome of the discussion with the case manager, I will explain again in regards to the previous issue that I had with my old car, and the completely different outcome, and the problem is due to a design flaw with many vehicles across the VW range, and is not a mechanical component or fault at all.

I will point out that I will take them to the small claims court if I have to, and I will - I know that I will win, it's clear as day, written in black and white in millions of owners handbooks around the world - It's exactly the same problem as I had before and yet I'm being given a completely different outcome..

[Irri_Tant]

Finally got around to going to Lookers in Teesside.

Had to book in for someone to view the car.

Receptionist said they'd have to look up service records, age, mileage etc. Pointed out to her it was a claim on the 'corrosion warranty' and nothing to do with what she mentioned. They are aware of the issue in the branch though. She also said that VW had just changed it's policy on this type or warranty and was being done on a good will basis.

That's were I left it and now await a call next week.

Never did get the promised call from Lookers in Middlesbrough. So phoned this morning and they had no record.

Now booked in for the 14th August to be viewed by them as they only do appointments.

If car was under 3 years old they'd be out to view it. So older cars don't get the same treatment which is shocking.

[JimC64]

Never did get the promised call from Lookers in Middlesbrough. So phoned this morning and they had no record.
.


Hmmmmmm..........Where have I heard that before?

Mine took ages to process, the guy that was dealing with it was off, then back but really busy, never available when I called etc........Jeeesh
Similar issues with more than a few here with stories that are all much of a muchness.

Keep at them, as much as you're annoyed / frustrated etc, keep calling etc as may be required to get to the end result.

[k88kgm]

Hey. was just wondering if any one has been lowered when they have been to the dealerships. i have to go on monday and not sure what to do.

[mrvillicus]

mines lowered k88kgm and Im due to go to birmingham VW tomorrow so Ill let you know!

[k88kgm]

cool thats good to know how low are you ?? will be good to know how you get on good luck :D

[xjay1337]

Hey. was just wondering if any one has been lowered when they have been to the dealerships. i have to go on monday and not sure what to do.

My old TDI was lowered and I had no problems.

[mrvillicus]

Just got back from VW birmingham, all he did was measure the paint thickness which was all good, they dont have a bodyshop there so he didnt have a clue what he was on about anyway Lol, just got to wait for VW customer service to get back to me...mine lowered 30/20 but they cant use that against us

[JimC64]

Please keep us posted and this thread updated.....

Good luck

[mrvillicus]

yep will do :)

[xjay1337]

I am going through this process for the SECOND time with a Golf Mk5.
Originally I had a TDI and went through the process - You can read about it here - http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/p/426503/3248711.aspx#3248711 (and over the next few pages)

I've since changed to a Mk5 GTI.
Originally in my previous case I was offered 70% Goodwill which was raised to 100% after much deliberation and fighting. It was stressful to say the least. Officially it was 70% goodwill, and VW would match whatever my local dealer offered, so the remaining 30% was split 15% by both parties (VW and my local dealer).


I'm now going through the process again, I've only been offered 50% Goodwill this time. I've literally just gotten off the phone with VW Customer "care" and has now been escalated to a Case Manager, and will be hearing back from them within 24-48 hours. Again, as before, they are saying this is not a "corrosion" issue but a "mechanical" issue, I know exactly what the problem is... it's their design!

I expect the same hard fight as before. I was told that VW have stopped topping up the cost to end-dealers for this repair.

It's very odd considering that when my old car was submitted, it was a 2004 Model, with around 120k on the clock, and my GTI is a 2006 plate with 85k on the clock, and I'm getting two completely different results. You would expect the newer, lower mileage car to have more Goodwill?

Not that I am looking for goodwill at all, I'm looking for warranty work.

Currently I would need to pay approximately £350 which is not acceptable. I am not prepared to pay any money for a warranty repair.
I need some other paintwork done, and I would pay £350 for that (bumper and bonnet respray) - So as a last resort I am hoping to speak to my local VW bodyshop, and if they are prepared "top-up" the wing repair so that doesn't cost me anything, I would pay for the bumper and bonnet respray from them. However that will be an absolute last resort.

I will await the outcome of the discussion with the case manager, I will explain again in regards to the previous issue that I had with my old car, and the completely different outcome, and the problem is due to a design flaw with many vehicles across the VW range, and is not a mechanical component or fault at all.

I will point out that I will take them to the small claims court if I have to, and I will - I know that I will win, it's clear as day, written in black and white in millions of owners handbooks around the world - It's exactly the same problem as I had before and yet I'm being given a completely different outcome..

Just as an update to my case, I have been talking to the Customer Care case manager lady and she was saying the usual, that it's a mechanical problem, etc etc. She asked about my previous VW history, having owned my old car for 2 and a half years, I needed proof of the service history, etc, I needed to photograph and send her proof of ownership and the service history (it has a full service history but I only sent things showing up to 70k) and I was told due to her having Friday and Monday off, I would hear back, the latest, Thursday the 20th.

I said regardless of what the vehicles previous service history is or was, it makes little difference to me as the end customer, and that I had 100% of the costs covered on my old car and yet on a newer and lower mileage model I'm getting far less. Combined with the different outcomes people are getting, there is no parity across customer issues, which is the problem.

She explained she will see what she can do and investigate my previous case, but cannot guarantee any outcome.

So I will hopefully update with more on Thursday.

[JimC64]

You know the script..........The service history is totally irrelevant, its the 12 year anti corrosion warranty and not the 3 year paint warranty you're claiming against.

Its also irrelevant whether you get other work done there at the same time which you pay for, although I understand the thinking behind it.

Its a design fault there from new, pure and simple and they are liable 100%

Keep on the case & good luck

[mrvillicus]

lmao dont you just love VW there just trying there hardet not to pay out when legally they have too. I believe if they put up a fight on all of the current ongoing cases we should join forces and get this put on TV its a joke really, how they can give someone a 100% claim and then when that same person has to claim again they say no, its ludicrous. And when they use the "its a mechanical" issue thats just stupid, how is it a mechanical issue LOL?? as said above its a design fault that those VW muppets did AND i also think that their excuses of "service history" and "good will" are scandalous, how does a service history affect this fault and goodwill is complete ********, its not goodwill at all....you have to honour your warranty you bast**** so do it! rant over :)

[mrvillicus]

not happy, just spoke to VW twice, they are basically trying to persuade me not to take it to the bodyshop. The lad I spoke to said this is a fault which is due to the arch liners rubbing, which is classed as edge and fold damage which is therefore not covered under the anti-perforation warranty. He also kept saying goodwill, goodwill...to which I said mate this is not a matter of goodwill it is a matter of claiming under the anti perforation warranty. He told me due to the fact ive only had it for 2 months and didnt notice the damage when I bought it, and that its very high mileage 178000 and that the VW service history stopped at 107000 they would not give me goodwill. So they are trying to put me off from claiming as "anti perforation", i will now read the terms and conditions to determine what is "perforation" and what is "edge and fold"...what a load of ********

[mrvillicus]

also the web address he gave me for the warranty doesnt work

[mrvillicus]

here are the terms and conditions from what I can see Body protection warrantyAll current Volkswagen vehicles are fully protected during manufacture against through corrosion for 12 years from the date of first registration.


The only preconditions are:


The defect must be reported to a member of the Volkswagen Authorised Network as soon as it is discovered and within the warranty period.
The perforation must not have been caused originally by damage, neglect, insufficient care or maintenance or by external rusting.
A member of the Volkswagen Authorised Network must be advised about any rusting as soon as it is found.
All body repairs will be carried out promptly in accordance with the manufacturer's specification and procedures, using only approved parts and materials, so the original level of anti-corrosion protection is maintained.
Volkswagen Authorised Network workmanship warranty

[JimC64]

not happy, just spoke to VW twice, they are basically trying to persuade me not to take it to the bodyshop. The lad I spoke to said this is a fault which is due to the arch liners rubbing, which is classed as edge and fold damage which is therefore not covered under the anti-perforation warranty. He also kept saying goodwill, goodwill...to which I said mate this is not a matter of goodwill it is a matter of claiming under the anti perforation warranty. He told me due to the fact ive only had it for 2 months and didnt notice the damage when I bought it, and that its very high mileage 178000 and that the VW service history stopped at 107000 they would not give me goodwill. So they are trying to put me off from claiming as "anti perforation", i will now read the terms and conditions to determine what is "perforation" and what is "edge and fold"...what a load of ********

Boll Oxe!!

Its through corrosion caused by their wheel arch liner as fitted from new.

Age ( as long as under 12 years obviously ) Mileage and or service history is irrelevant.

Keep at them...

[mrvillicus]

god this is allready doing my head in everyone I speak too makes me feel like a criminal, just spoke to vw bodyshop in coventry (which is miles away from me but hey) and the woman sounded like she was quite depressed, just said yes bring it in tomorrow by 12 thanks, bye....great service I see. Anyone know who the motor industry regulators are as I want them on my side too?

[mrvillicus]

guys before I go mad at VW i want to make sure Im right, ive spent ages researching and with everyone they say this fault is not covered under the warranty as the arch rubbing it is "a mechanical fault"...so I want to have enough ammo to beat them, if they say that this is the case with mine what should I say? should I say no thats incorrect, it is not the arch liner that causes it, its the foam pad that causes it which is not mechnical so whats the difference between the edge and fold and the anti perforation?

[mrvillicus]

im sad and have a lot of time on my hands so ive created this list of pointers for anyone whos making a claim to use, I know I will be :)

Im claiming on the anti perforation warranty because of through corrosion caused by arch liner from new


the claim is valid under the terms & conditions of the anti perforation warranty


The car doesn't have to have a full service history to have the wings replaced under the 12 year Warranty


The 12 Year Body Warranty is for 12 years and is passed on to subsequent owners during that time


The rust is caused by the moulded acoustic foam pad rubbing against the inner galvanized lip at the top of the wheel arch......wearing through the galvanized layer.... which exposes the metal to rust.
It is covered under the 12 year Warranty and you are entitled to 100% of the cost.


Your claim is under the 12 year Bodywork warranty and is against the body rusting from the inside out NOT vice/ versa.
It has nothing to do with the mechanical warranty. NOR is it caused in a mechanical way.


There is no requirement for your car to be serviced by a VW dealer to qualify for the 12 year corrosion guarantee.


You are NOT claiming under any GOODWILL OFFER!


Yours is a claim under a 12 year Corrosion Warranty provided with you car,and is within the time limits specified


the problem was entirely caused in manufacture by VW, is well documented and that VW have even issued Worldwide bulletins to all dealers on how to repair/replace affected wings and the Claims procedures to apply?


many other cars have received 100% offers


STOP USING THE PAINT WARRANTY, OR EXCUSE OF "ITS MECHANICAL" TO GET OUT OF THE WARRANTY


I will take this further, media threat, claims court etc

[JimC64]

Pretty much all of the above buddy

The trick is to know that the info you are discussing is correct as provided by members here who have researched thoroughly, to be confident in that and yourself and for that to come across...................no matter what they say as its mostly excuses and MISinformation.

Be polite but be firm and be prepared to go all the way if necessary.

You will win out in the end

[mrvillicus]

ive emailed them aswell,as many email contacts as I could find, I wanted to email Alison Jones, the new head of customer quality but I cant find her email...this is the email:--

Good day,


I refer to my case number VW-2013/05-022348, regarding a claim under the anti perforation warranty. I would like a senior manager to look at my case as I feel I have been unfairly treated and believe dealing with the UK call centre staff will get me nowhere. 2 months ago I purchased a 2004 VW Passat 1.9 tdi, I was very excited to collect the car as I work within the automotive trade I knew what quality and performance awaited me. After the honeymoon period of owing the passat I decided to detail it, which is where I noticed some bubbling on my front arches. I immediately looked on the internet for advice. This led me to a document regarding the Volkswagen 12 year anti perforation warranty. After some research I understood my nice new car would be fully covered under this warranty, and as a new VW customer I would be dealt with professionally and courteously, I was disappointed.

Firstly I emailed VW customer service to see how I would make a claim, Mr Darren Quirk, customer manager replied to my first emails advising the vehicle would need to be checked to confirm claim validility. However, surprisingly VW dont have a bodyshop at all in Birmingham, which really did surprise me, so I was told I would need to go to Coventry VW. Now this garage are about an hour from me so Darren made arrangements for me to see Tim Scott at VW Birmingham for a preliminary check. All Tim did was check the paint depth, as instructed by VW customer service. Upon my return from the Birmingham garage I emailed Damien. A day later Rav from VW uk called me to discuss my "paint warranty" claim, which he said was invalid. After confirming to Rav that I did not want to claim under a paint warranty he understood that my claim was under the 12 year anti perforation warranty. He then set about doing his upmost to convince me that my claim would be unsuccessful, that it would be classed as paint damage and edge and fold areas, and that driving 40 miles to the Coventrybodyshop would'nt be worth it. My conversation with Rav ended with me feeling quite confused, shocked, and very unhappy with the obvious tactics he had been told to perform to make sure I would not persue my claim.

During the call a few truths were made aware to me, a new customer with partial VW service history, not much history with the brand and a car with high mileage does not mean much to VW, which offended me. I'am a new customer, with extremely high expectations due to thereputation VW has, whether Im a new customer, or one of 10 years, I'am still a customer.


Now onto my claim, I believe VW will do anything and everything they can to ensure a claim under the 12 year anti perforation warranty is rejected, which is unfair. I would like to note some points that I strongly believe are valid regarding the information Rav gave me on the phone and what I seem to find all over the internet regarding this warranty:-


1) My claim is valid under the terms & conditions of the anti perforation warranty
2) The car doesn't have to have a full service history to have the wings replaced under the 12 year Warranty
3) The 12 Year Body Warranty is for 12 years and is passed on to subsequent owners during that time

4) The rust is caused by the moulded acoustic foam pad rubbing against the inner galvanized lip at the top of the wheel arch......wearing through the galvanized layer.... which exposes the metal to rust. This should be covered under the 12 year Warranty and I should be entitled to 100% of the cost.

5) My claim is under the 12 year Bodywork warranty and is against the body rusting from the inside out NOT vice/ versa.
It has nothing to do with the mechanical warranty. NOR is it caused in a mechanical way.
6) There is no requirement for my car to be serviced by a VW dealer to qualify for the 12 year corrosion guarantee.
7) I'am not claiming under a goodwill offer warranty
8) The problem is entirely caused in manufacture by VW, it is well documented and VW have even issued Worldwide bulletins to all dealers on how to repair/replace affected wings and the Claims procedures to apply, which are all available on the internet.


I believe those points should be enough to warranty a valid claim under my 12 year perforation warranty. I would also like to advise that I work for the UK's largest emergency breakdown provider and I'am sure our president would love to hear my story and that of hundreds others, and publish it in our quarterly magazine, which is sent to over 8 million people. I would also like to make you aware that this scandalous behaviour has been noted by a popular consumer programme on the BBC, following actions by many disgruntled Volkswagen customers on the internet, and they have recently taken a serious interest in this. I'am fully prepared to follow up my claim, if it is ended unsatisfactory. Which would mean claims in the relevant courts, as I strongly believe my claim is 100% valid.

I would appreciate a fast resolution to my case to my full satisfaction. I would like to ask what is different about my claim to the others VW have honoured? Yes each case is different but the principle is the same surely, valid claim or rejected claim. The successful claims are all exactly the same as mine, therefore for someone to be successful, and me not, when we have 100% the same problem, is to me shocking. If VW honour claims under the perforation warranty following this well documented problem, then they must honour all claims that are valid, not try and fob people off as much as they can, which is obviously what you are doing.

I look forward to your reply,


Ben

[JimC64]

Looks good Ben and should get their attention..............keep at it my friend.

Hope to hear..

Jim

[mrvillicus]

no reply as of yet mate

[Kevster140]

no reply as of yet mate

Wish you luck Ben!!

Don't mean to barge in but for other with this issue, this is my take on it...

My previous Golf was a victim of this wing corrosion, at that time I could not find anything on the internet. However the bulletin would have been perfect, after much debating that the 'edge and fold' section of the wings IS NOT COVERED by the warranty of any kind they did it 75/25%.

I was told the diesel is worse, due to vibration from the engine. I was told by the body shop guy at Vindis, Milton, cambs to remove the foam completely, not exactly what the bulletin says!

Nor was the replacement fitted in the correct way the bulletin says ie not using PU adhesive etc, just paint it and slap it on. However they did claim for rust on the front of the sills they found when the wings were removed.

To be quite honest (IMO) I haven’t been very impressed with VW vindis milton (heard good of other Vw ones since), when they had to redo paint at least once with instructions of how to do it FROM ME.

Side tracking slightly,

Also the bonnet underside was repainted because of zinc inclusion corrosion either side of the catch.

I had the rust under the badge on the tailgate (where the water sits, and screen wash corrodes), which they surprisingly replaced the whole boot lid FOC, and funnily enough the design had changed!! Unfortunately they couldn’t stick the badges on in the correct place. ‘We have no instructions or dimensions’ they said (its not like they car park is full of mk5 golfs either) so I print them off the VW system found online – you should have seen their faces!

Oh and zinc inclusion corrosion on about 6 panels, I think I had a 'duff' car (the words of a very experienced independent paint inspector who VW used to check my car out)!

I went on to purchase other MK5 golf last May, out of 3 I viewed they all had the same issues under the bonnet but i've just left it this time. I took the foam out the wings but already the nearside had rubbed, I’m due soon to treat the rust and sort it out myself, so it stays good for the time I plan to keep the car.

Lost my trust on this one, but this is of course only based on my experiences from the above mentioned!

Keep us posted Ben!

[mrvillicus]

Hi guys, finally spoke to VW, I sent my email to everyone and Ive just spoken to Mr Gary kitchin, customer relations manager. H ebasically wanted to clear a few things up and wondered why Birmingham VW hadnt done a proper diagnosis of the rust etc. I explained my doubts and how unhapy I was so far. He did say that they were aware of this particular fault with the vehicle, even though RAV at customer services told me its not worth pursuing and a goodwill claim would not be vaild...he is wrong, and he also told me at every VW dealer in the UK they have one trained bodyshop guy that should do these kind of assessments. Gary told me my complaint had been escalated to the 2nd in command and that they are looking into it, I await there reply :)

[mrvillicus]

got another call from VW brum he said to take it in july 02nd for "paperwork"...even though thats what I went there for a week ago :(

[roblightbody]

Hey Rob, soo glad you got it resolved at no cost to yourself, as it should be.

Hopefully you found this thread and info within useful and it helped to some degree.

It also sounds like you had one of the easist experiences around on this issue, so glad you didn't have to go to the mat on it.

Its so strange how different dealers, have different attitudes to the same thing though and one that VW should really get a grip on.................Please remember to come back here and post up your progress and how it ends Rob.

It may help others

Thanks

Images attached below. They had the car for 5 working days and its come back looking perfect. 2 New wings, perfect colour match.

Can't fault the service I've received at all, and despite the rust occurring, I'm a happy VW customer, and a happy customer of Arnold Clark Crow Road Glasgow.

2124221243212442124521246

[Guest 2]

Looks excellent!

Very nice colour too.

[Dunsmorechap]

Took mine into Listers Coventry on Monday and got it back today, all done with no hassle. Pretty pleased with the result, it was a repair as the rust wasn't too bad and had only just started to bubble the paint in a few places.

Next thing to fight is the 50% offer towards a new tailgate leaving me to pay £800.

21385
21386

[Kevster140]

Took mine into Listers Coventry on Monday and got it back today, all done with no hassle. Pretty pleased with the result, it was a repair as the rust wasn't too bad and had only just started to bubble the paint in a few places.

Next thing to fight is the 50% offer towards a new tailgate leaving me to pay £800.




Looks great, well done. Hope it lasts, if you keep that car long enough make sure you inspect it before just before the cover on it runs out, just incase. Did they use the PU as detailed in the prodedure?, (as i said above Milton Vindis didn't)

My golf tailgate was 100% their cost and thats after many panels, bonnet and new wing, any reason why they are saying 50/50?

I don't know of any info on either golf or passat tailgate.

[Dunsmorechap]

Looks great, well done. Hope it lasts, if you keep that car long enough make sure you inspect it before just before the cover on it runs out, just incase. Did they use the PU as detailed in the prodedure?, (as i said above Milton Vindis didn't)

My golf tailgate was 100% their cost and thats after many panels, bonnet and new wing, any reason why they are saying 50/50?

I don't know of any info on either golf or passat tailgate.

All they said was 'However support for this attracts a 50% contribution as a goodwill gesture '

So now the wings are done I'll take it up direct with VW. As I see it it's covered by the anti corrosion warranty, and whatever they say they've just covered and done the wings 100% so why not the rusting tailgate?

[Kevster140]

All they said was 'However support for this attracts a 50% contribution as a goodwill gesture '

So now the wings are done I'll take it up direct with VW. As I see it it's covered by the anti corrosion warranty, and whatever they say they've just covered and done the wings 100% so why not the rusting tailgate?

well i forgot 'they treat each claim separately' i was told, feel free if you want to use mine (last car) as an example!

[JimC64]

Nice one Dunsmore..........now take up the fight for the tailgate.

It should be the same result.

Good luck

[mrvillicus]

Just an update on my progress guys, as I went straight to the top my case is being dealt with by Gary Kitchin, Customer relations manager, surprisingly he has kept upto date with me each week. He had organised for someone to actually submit a claim at birmingham VW instead of just confusing my claim with a paint warranty claim and fobbing me off etc, but I havent had any chance to get it into the garage yet, I will be taking it 100% tuesday and Ill get my claim finally actually "submitted"..bear in mind my first email recieved from VW was the May 29th. Im still expecting them to say no, and theres no goodwill etc but Im sure their aware by now, that wont be good enough. I have an email from the AA's president advising hes interestd in running this story in the quarterly magazine, I have replies from watchdog regarding this and I have been speaking to the relevant authorities within automotive standards etc so I have managed to get a few high profile organistations involved. All of this due to a rusty wing :( Ill update more next week, and a massive congrats to dunsmorechap!!!

[Wozzer1]

I have read this thread with great interest as my '53 plate highline estate is suffering with the same problem as everyone else seems to have.
However, I have got nowhere with VW.
The reply I got is detailed below (names removed):

"Dear Mr
Thank you for your recent contact with Volkswagen UK Customer Services regarding the wheel arch corrosion on your Passat Estate.
I can confirm that the corrosion on your vehicle has been caused by the wheel arch lining rubbing against the body of the
vehicle and this is therefore classed as wear and tear.
As per our telephone conversation, I am pleased to confirm that Gilbert
Lawton (Macclesfield).would like to reduce your bill by 50% as gesture of goodwill.
Should you wish to accept this offer, please contact Gilbert Lawton (Macclesfield) to arrange for the repair to be completed.
I am also aware that the issue with driver's heated seat is still under investigation and this will be inspected on 12 July
2013. I will keep in contact with the retailer to ensure we are able to bring this issue to a satisfactory resolution.
I will look forward to hearing from you.
Yours sincerely"

- There you have it - I have so far been told that the issue is not covered by warranty because the paint warranty runs out after 3 years (didn't claim on that).
I have also been told that I would have been offered more if I had a full VW dealer service history (The warranty doesn't require this).
- Looks like VW have no intentions of honouring anything!

By the way, the heated seat reference is due to the fact that the driver's seat set fire to my wife's skirt whilst she was driving. Fortunately she wasn't hurt and had the presence of mind to deal with the situation sensibly! - It remains to be seen if this will also be a "wear and tear" issue doesn't it?

On the subject of the wing corrosion, I also emailed VW Germany and got the following reply:

"Thank you for your e-mail addressed to the Board of Management of the Volkswagen AG. As the responsible department for customer
affairs, we have received your correspondence for further attention.
However, we kindly request your understanding that we are not in a position to objectively analyse the matter regarding the
corrosion of the mentioned car wing of your Volkswagen Passat from our headquarters in Germany and on the basis of
correspondence. Without having the opportunity to inspect your vehicle, we can only make assumptions which would not help you
efficiently in this case.
Therefore, we have informed our importer"

The person who has dealt with me regarding the wing corrosion issue is also the "Safety Liaison Specialist" in the UK.
The person VW Germany had nominated to reply to me never did so.
- Looks like I'm on a hiding to nothing - not for the want of trying though.
The quote I have had is £307 which is apparently "half price" for one wing.
I think I'll give up now and fit a 'bojak' wing for £35 plus paint.

Hope anyone else with the corroded wings has better luck than me!

[JimC64]

So sorry mate, but Its ALL the same ole stuff they spout, same time every time.

I do hope you stick to your guns and fight it all the way, using the advice given here in this thread in previous pages.

My advice is to take it all the way, right to the bitter end..............There's no way you should have to fork out £300+ for something thats not your fault and in actual fact is a design defect.

Please know that you are right and fight on.

Good luck

[dr_sybourg]

Hi All,

After some advice......

Spotted rust @ 12 o'clock on drivers side wheel arch and paint starting to bubble in the same place on the passenger side, took the car to VW Bridgwater this morning for the bodywork expert to take a look and he told me no warranty claim can be made as the paint thickness is too high on the wing?

He said the wings must have been re sprayed (both sides) which I don't think is true, I asked for the complaints procedure and he refused stating VW will just ignore it when I tell them the paint is too thick?

What is the paint thickness supposed to be? am I being mugged off here?

Really stuck on what to do next and really annoyed as all the symptoms are there to suggest this is the same as every other fault in this thread!

Thanks

[JimC64]

Hi All,

After some advice......

Spotted rust @ 12 o'clock on drivers side wheel arch and paint starting to bubble in the same place on the passenger side, took the car to VW Bridgwater this morning for the bodywork expert to take a look and he told me no warranty claim can be made as the paint thickness is too high on the wing?

He said the wings must have been re sprayed (both sides) which I don't think is true, I asked for the complaints procedure and he refused stating VW will just ignore it when I tell them the paint is too thick?

What is the paint thickness supposed to be? am I being mugged off here?

Really stuck on what to do next and really annoyed as all the symptoms are there to suggest this is the same as every other fault in this thread!

Thanks

Hi there,
paint thickness is measured in microns and there will be a standard thickness direct from the factory, although I'm not 100% sure what that is?

If you want to proceed further, you'll need to find out what that measurement is and try to get it re checked at an independent garage for confirmation.

Bear in mind that sometimes cars can be damaged in transit and or remedial work done on the line requiring a quick touch up paint wise.

Presumably you haven't owned the car from new?
If this is the case is there any other way you can check with the previous owner to see if any remedial work was carried out previously?

Sorry I can't be more help

Good luck....

[mrvillicus]

Hi chaps!! finally managed to get my first inspection done, this is really taking the ****, prob a month after my first email. Anyway the lad measured my paint thickness and took pictures (which is exactly what happened the first feckin time I went) and then (pre rehearsed im not sure) a technician bloke came over, looked about, poked and prodded mumbling under his voice and said theres a piece of plastic that causes this corrosion, and a stonechip could of caused it...LOL, in reply was "well thats ********, are you even a trained bodywork technician? and why did VW send a bulletin out to dealers advising of the design fault and how to repair it"...to which the original guy said "well water spraying up and getting behind the arch can cause this"...I just said to him "mate whatever, I know what your doing, just send VW the pictures and I'll sort it"...pissin *******. SO following them really annoying me I have sent the manager dealing with my case Gary Kitchin an email saying....

Hi Gary, Just got back from VW bhman. Graham took pictures of the damage and measured the paint thickness, he did tell me that they dont see many vehicles without this kind of damage and the paint thickness depends on how much VW will pay towards the repair. Also another gentleman came over, who seemed to be a mechanic, and inspected the damage, I dont know if this was rehearsed or not but it seemed he was there to advise me that the manufacturers design fault that causes this damage is non existent, even when I told him that I have seen the bulletin that VW sent out to each dealer to advise of this design fault and how to repair it...I would just like to make sure that the decision makers are aware that I am not after an offer of goodwill and I will not be prepared to pay anything towards this repair. It is covered by the anti perforation warranty, I know it and VW know it, they have honoured this damage under the warranty before and my case is no different. I also hope that the decision does not lie with the Bham VW guys, as it was not inspected by a trained bodywork technician, and to be honest it seems that I know more than them regarding this fault with your vehicles. I am fully prepared to "go the whole hog" with this and have full legal assistance waiting through my employer, The AA, should I wish to take this to the claims courts and again I stress that I have the opportunity to publicise the fact that VW make it as hard as possible for people to claim under the anti perf waranty.

[JimC64]

Nice one .....Keep on it!!!

Good luck

[mrvillicus]

oh I will mate, I shall not be defeated!!!

[Kevster140]

oh I will mate, I shall not be defeated!!!

All you can do, best of luck! I think they are either cleverer than they make out and fullly trained in costling VW the minimum or have total lack of tranining or understanding of the whole thing! I would, on my experaince with of one VW paint shop/dealers go with the second guess! Worth noting on the initial calim for my zinc incusion corrosion the bottom of the doors/wings on my first MK5 they got in an independent paint specialist, i wish i had got his details to ask about the wings because he knew his stuff. He did say it could be worse, you could own a BMW or Merc, worst of them all apparently.

It's about time they came up with a better besign. I've noticed the flat part of the edge and fold on the Mk5 golf was made slightly more bent up on the MK6 now the MK7 is nearly at 45deg. If from new you know about it you can prelong the rubbing but after 4-8years it will still appear, unless you put some tlc in to it. Where i work the grandad had just bought a renault Kangoo (not my kind of things) so i thought i'd look at the design... and the front wings and inner arch is simialr in the shape and the way its sits to the MK5 but....., the wing is PLASTIC!!!

Come on VW catch up with the err...... french!

[Wozzer1]

Hi all,
Final update from me.
VW have stated flatly that there is no way they will move on the rusty wings issue. It is they say, wear and tear, and they wil not move on the offer of 50% "goodwill" to fit me a wing at £307 (including vat).
I' am ordering a wing from Crashrepair parts .com and bolting it on myself. - Ready painted, at £131 including vat & delivery. It may not match perfectly, but I am now past caring.
I really haven't got the stamina to fight the "robots" in customer service any more, and I reaaally don't need to hear any more of their mealy-mouthed platitudes either.
Hey, Ho!

One bright moment though, the hole in the drivers seat (which scorched the wife's rump) caused by the failure of the heated seat element is getting fixed at 100% cost to VW.
But, Wait for it..."this is obviously wear and tear, but we will repair it as a Gesture Of Goodwill"
Oh, and they refuse to accept liability for any damage to the wife or her skirt!
I suppose I should be thankful I'm getting the seat fixed at least....
I will Never, Ever, buy another VW after this experience.

[Guest 2]

you shouldn't give in! just keep fighting like everyone else has in this thread and you will get a result!

[Kevster140]

Hi all,
Final update from me.
VW have stated flatly that there is no way they will move on the rusty wings issue. It is they say, wear and tear, and they wil not move on the offer of 50% "goodwill" to fit me a wing at £307 (including vat).
I' am ordering a wing from Crashrepair parts .com and bolting it on myself. - Ready painted, at £131 including vat & delivery. It may not match perfectly, but I am now past caring.
I really haven't got the stamina to fight the "robots" in customer service any more, and I reaaally don't need to hear any more of their mealy-mouthed platitudes either.
Hey, Ho!

One bright moment though, the hole in the drivers seat (which scorched the wife's rump) caused by the failure of the heated seat element is getting fixed at 100% cost to VW.
But, Wait for it..."this is obviously wear and tear, but we will repair it as a Gesture Of Goodwill"
Oh, and they refuse to accept liability for any damage to the wife or her skirt!
I suppose I should be thankful I'm getting the seat fixed at least....
I will Never, Ever, buy another VW after this experience.

Well done on the seat! It's just so so sad they don't really care. 'Wear and tear',
of the plastic arch rubbing the inner metal with salt and grit due to poor design more like! Cars like many things are just throw away items in some peoples eyes.
After all, why make a car last forever, its a mild still box painted with water based paint. Unfortunately us guys that care about cars don't see it that way!
Don't think any manufacturer is 'better' than others. By the time these problems become known its often the second or third owners down the line who pick up the
Issues oftern combined with the fact at least one of the owners didn't care a toss.
I've had issues with othet brands too, the worst BMW a 'premium' brand.

Did you hand them the paper work/bulitin with the full instructions on....?

I'm am seriously considering new for my next golf, Audi or skoda. However I was advised to get the paint thickness checked even when new.
I did so on my current golf, so at least I know the rust onthe arch is original!

[JimC64]

Hi all,
Final update from me.
VW have stated flatly that there is no way they will move on the rusty wings issue. It is they say, wear and tear, and they wil not move on the offer of 50% "goodwill" to fit me a wing at £307 (including vat).
I' am ordering a wing from Crashrepair parts .com and bolting it on myself. - Ready painted, at £131 including vat & delivery. It may not match perfectly, but I am now past caring.
I really haven't got the stamina to fight the "robots" in customer service any more, and I reaaally don't need to hear any more of their mealy-mouthed platitudes either.
Hey, Ho!

One bright moment though, the hole in the drivers seat (which scorched the wife's rump) caused by the failure of the heated seat element is getting fixed at 100% cost to VW.
But, Wait for it..."this is obviously wear and tear, but we will repair it as a Gesture Of Goodwill"
Oh, and they refuse to accept liability for any damage to the wife or her skirt!
I suppose I should be thankful I'm getting the seat fixed at least....
I will Never, Ever, buy another VW after this experience.

Congrats on the seat fix wozzer!

Its a shame you're giving up on the rusty wings issue though........I know it can be really frustrating, but you are in the right and are being fobbed off.
For me its a battle of wills, and its unlikely I lose as its a matter of principle for me, but I appreciate where you're coming from.

Good luck

[mrvillicus]

well chaps, VW have replied with an offer of 50% "goodwill" this is the email:-

Re: VW-2013/05-022348

Dear Mr Bonness

Thank you for your email dated 24 July 2013 regarding the corroded areas on both front wheel arch panels of your Volkswagen
Passat Estate. Please accept my apologies for the delay in my response.

I have now received further information back from Graham Higgins, Assistant Service Manager at Birmingham Volkswagen, who
confirmed an inspection of the front wheel arch panels has been carried out. Graham confirmed your vehicle has had repair work
carried out to the wheel arches before as the paint depth readings indicate inconsistent paint depths. Whilst there is evidence
of a repair in the past to the front wheel arch panels the corrosion is a result of the inner mud wings rubbing against the rear
of the panel and has caused corrosion to the inside of the front wheel arch panels.

As a result, the repairs cannot be carried out under the terms and conditions of the manufacturers warranty for through
perforation as the corrosion is a result of a mechanical defect. Mechanical defects are only covered under the 3 year/60,000
mile warranty, which ever is reached first.

Whilst the corrosion is not a repair which will be carried out under the terms and conditions of through perforation, Volkswagen
is happy to confirm a 50% contribution towards replacing the front wheel arch panels as a gesture of goodwill. Should you wish
to accept this offer please contact Graham Higgins who will be happy to arrange for your vehicle to be booked into an Approved
Volkswagen Retailer for the necessary repairs.

Once again, thank you for bringing your concerns to my attention and for allowing me the opportunity to respond.

Yours sincerely


Gary Kitchin
Customer Relations Manager
Volkswagen UK Executive Office

AND MY REPLY........

Hi Gary,


As you may have expected, theres no way Im going to accept that as a reason. The arches have never had damage repair or been replaced, paint inconsistency is not proof that the wings have ever been replaced, of course there will be slight paint inconsistencies, its a 9 year old vehicle. I also ask how can someone that is not bodyshop or bodywork trained make such an informed decision. Also, when the paint was originally inspected by Tim Scott at Birmingham VW he confirmed that even though there may be inconsistent readings that does not mean that they have been replaced and he also confirmed that mine are original parts, which I advised in one of my first emails to you, so please dont try and use "inconsistent paint" and "rubbbing arch liners" as an excuse, which is what you say every time someone claims. As most of the public know, this corrision is not caused by "rubbing" of the arch liners. I have seen, and it is available on the internet, the bulletin VW sent to UK dealerships regarding the Design fault of the foam inserts behind the wing panels, so how can you tell me this perforation corrosion is caused by a rubbing arch liner!?


I'am aware this is the same tactic employed by you and VW every single time a warranty claim is submitted by an unsuspecting customer of VW. It is hugely documented on the internet and many people have had success in their claims. I would like you to prove to me that these wings have been replaced, and that the damage was caused by a "rubbing arch liner", if thats the case why is one side worse than the other? and confirm how an untrained person can make this decision, come on Gary, Graham had clearly been told what to say to me, he didnt have a clue what he was doing, and also what he says totally contradicts to what Tim Scott said when I first went.


This is a bit of a farcical joke if im honest and I expected a much more professional approach by such a company. I will not accept the 50% "goodwill" offer,as I stated before, I have seen proof that VW caused this problem in their design, and it is not caused by "arch liners rubbing". I will not just accept an answer of no, this is a valid claim and I'am being unfairly treated. Cases exactly the same have been accepted, and yes, as VW always say "each case is different"...it may be the case, but the root cause is not. Again please go back to the decision makers and until you can reply to me with an offer of replacing the corroded wings 100%, like you should, then dont bother with any further offers of 60, 70, 80 or even 99% of goodwill. Again I stress, this reply from you will be sent to two very influential media threats who are prepared to investigate the VW anti perforation claims process further, and I would also like to remind you that I'am fully prepared to take this to the small claims court, and have the relevant backing and support to do so.


As I have mentioned, due to my new role with The AA I'am unreachable during main office hours on my mobile, so email would be easier for both parties.


Regards,


Mr Bonness

[JimC64]

Nice one Mr V..............keep at them, the difference is you know you are right, and what you're talking about.

Don't accept them fobbing you off and win what is rightfully yours.

Always a willing and sympathetic ear here for you mate.

[Kevster140]

Nice one Mr V..............keep at them, the difference is you know you are right, and what you're talking about.

Don't accept them fobbing you off and win what is rightfully yours.

Always a willing and sympathetic ear here for you mate.

Spot on, and good luck. Ironically I have just got off the phone from a VW approved body shop in Suffolk, and have proved within just a few minutes that vindis at milton/cambs DID NOT correctly repair one wing or replace another on my old mk5 golf correctly to vw procedure. They should line the wing with PU just like the bulletin mentioned on here.
I spoke to the manager and he said they had only just done another wing in the last week, properly! He knew all about it with no bull, of course the last decision is with Vw but if you have a manager who's clued up behind you it must help.

MR V.... you can put my name down for investigating my previous car or indeed if i go somewhere with the one I have now, unless I go get a new car for a more hassle free motoring!

[Kevster140]

Just came accross this, it's american but gives some piccys of the problem cause. not so sure we quite get sand like that here!

Fixing rust on the VW fender wheel arch
(http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/a4/fender-rust-VW-TDI-repair.htm)
and some pics of a wing pre fix

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=86&t=1258719&mid=399168&i=0&nmt=2005+Golf+-+RUSTING+ARCHES+-+Claiming+on+Corrosion+Warranty&mid=399168

[mrvillicus]

WELL CHAPS HAD A REPLY FROM VW today..not good news again:-

Dear Mr Bonness

Thank you for your email dated 24 July 2013 regarding our goodwill offer made towards repairing the corroded areas on both front
wheel arch panels of your Volkswagen Passat Estate.

Following the diagnosis of your vehicle at Birmingham Volkswagen, I have relied upon the information given to me by their
Assistant Service Manager, Graham Higgins. He has advised, in his opinion, the front wheel arch panels may have been repaired
due to inconsistent paint depth readings. This does not mean the panel has been replaced; however the surface of the panel may
have been repainted prior to your ownership.

Graham also confirmed that following his checks, he had inspected the wheel arch liner and found this to be the contributing
factor to the corrosion on the front wheel arch panels. The wheel arch liner does have a foam edge which over time has trapped
debris from the roads and then chaffed against the back of the wheel arch panel causing corrosion. However, as this is
consequential damage of the wheel arch liner moving, the repairs can only be carried out under the terms and conditions of a
mechanical defect warranty which is three years/60,000 miles, whichever is reached first.

Whilst I appreciate your disappointment with the 50% contribution towards the cost of repairing your vehicle, I am unable to
increase this full and final offer.

Once again, thank you for bringing your concerns to my attention and for allowing me the opportunity to respond.

Yours sincerely

Gary Kitchin
Customer Relations Manager
Volkswagen UK Executive Office

Tel: 0844 375 4625
E-mail: luxurycars@volkswagen.co.uk
Internet: The Official Website for Volkswagen UK : Volkswagen UK : Volkswagen UK (www.volkswagen.co.uk)

and my reply:-

Thanks for the reply Gary, again, your reply in regards to my Anti-Corrosion claim is simply not good enough. I cannot believe you are basing a decision on a warranty claim on opinions and possibilities, not facts. I quote "the front wheel arch panels may have been repaired due to inconsistent paint depth readings"...coming from an assistant service manager, Im not taking that as a solid reason. Also "he had inspected the wheel arch liner and found this to be the contributing factor to the corrosion on the front wheel arch panels"...he could tell all that from poking it with his pen? this is simply comical Gary and to use another joke of a reason, of "The wheel arch liner does have a foam edge which over time has trapped debris from the roads and then chaffed against the back of the wheel arch panel causing corrosion. However, as this is consequential damage of the wheel arch liner moving" really makes me question your ability to handle this case with honesty and professionalism. Please, please tell me how you are basing your decision on opinions of somebody that isnt even trained in bodywork? please tell me how on earth you believe that trapped debris has cause the RUST corrosion, and as far as I was aware the arch liners don't move whilst in transit. Don't forget I'am an employee of a very large motoring organisation and we are very clear that your opinion on what has caused this corrosion, is an unqualified guess. There is no technical evidence to back this up and the fact that VW have even sent a bulletin to all dealerships advising of the real cause and how to repair it, is quite naughty. Please can you stop dismissing my claim with extremely poor reasons, why cant you provide me with proof? I want you to confirm to me that VW have never sent out a bulletin to their workshops advising technicians the real cause of this corrosion and how to fix it.


Again, I will not accept being fobbed off Gary, I want you to answer every question in this email that I have asked, I also want you to provide me with your escalation procedure and I want you to treat me with respect instead of thinking I'm going to accept your really poor answers as a deciding fact in whether VW pay out to cover another claim, under the 12 year Anti Corrosion Warranty, because of a manufacturing fault. I'm not going away Gary and I promise you I wont give up.


Regards,


Mr Bonness

[mrvillicus]

Ive also just sent him these pictures, so if he comes back with a NO, then hes really <removed> up!

Fixing rust on the VW fender wheel arch (http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/a4/fender-rust-VW-TDI-repair.htm)

<removed>

[Kevster140]

Ivealso just sent him these pictures, so if he comes back with a NO, then hesreally <removed> up!

Fixing rust on the VW fender wheel arch (http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/a4/fender-rust-VW-TDI-repair.htm)

<removed>


As this Gary says, he goes on the information of inspection given to him thoughthe inspector. Surely you ARE entitled to a SECOND OPINION, which is your nextclosest dealer?

You need to find an inspector that will fight for you. The manager at balgoresbody shop, sudbury sounds like he knows what he is on about. Maybe a phone calljust to ask, which i did just a few days ago. Personally i don’t want the upheavalof warranty claim on my car unless i have to (due to the for mentioned) but iwould not hesitate on taking my car there if i chose to from what i spoke tohim about.

Look here, this is vindis cambs who didn’t even allow me 100% on my last mk5!!


http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=1258719

VW and the inspectors need to be trained to the same standard and keep to a percentage of what is paid for or not, this is CRAZY. Knowing out luck they will train them to say no to everything. Worringly the mk6 is prob no better in a few years, what about the mk7, watch this size.

[Guest 2]

Ive also just sent him these pictures, so if he comes back with a NO, then hes really <removed> up!

Fixing rust on the VW fender wheel arch (http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/a4/fender-rust-VW-TDI-repair.htm)

<removed>

Watch your language please.

[JimC64]

Mr V .............Keep up the good fight buddy, we're all rooting for you here.

Obviously I know it can be really frustrating, but obviously you've got carried away in your post earlier..............Please try and tone it down some
whilst still trying to get the message across.

We all want to hear, just make sure you don't get binned in the process.

Good luck mate

[Kevster140]

Something else I've found, didn't know it was in the press at all: http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/common-vw-golf-problems/264929 Plus I read somewhere (which I can't find) plus were told by VW vindis body shop it was VERY common for cars to be 'touched' up after delivery to a dealer because of transit damage. Is this recorded....., and of course would give issues with the paint reading. This is why I now get used cars tested for paint thickness so I know i'm in 'theory' buying original.

[mrvillicus]

well it seems im beaten...VW arent budging, see there final reply...

Dear Mr Bonness

Thank you for your email dated on 30 July 2013 regarding the goodwill offer made towards repairing the corroded areas on both
front wheel arch panels of your Volkswagen Passat Estate.

Whilst I appreciate you remain dissatisfied with the decision for the repair not to be covered under the terms and conditions of
the manufacturer's warranty, I am unable to offer a differing response to the one already confirmed in my emails sent to you on
26 July 2013 and 30 July 2013. Should you decide to have a second opinion undertaken at an alternative Volkswagen retailer or
instruct an inspection by PVWI, this can be arranged but any associated costs would have to be covered by yourself.

Further information on PVWI can be found at http://www.pvwi2010.co.uk (http://www.pvwi2010.co.uk/). The inspection cost is approximately £130.00 + VAT and
this would be at your expense. However, should their opinion of how the corrosion has evolved on your vehicle be none other than
a warrantable repair, the cost of the inspection will be returned to you and the repair will be carried out under the terms and
conditions of the anti perforation warranty.

I would like to thank you for providing me with images of the wheel arch corrosion on your vehicle but I am unable to offer my
opinion as I am unable to carry out a detailed inspection unlike our retailer network. The alternative information provided is a
Technical Product Information bulletin and instructs the retailer network on what the potential cause of the corrosion is and
what can be done to repair and prevent further corrosion occurring.

Due to this being the third email reiterating Volkswagen's full and final offer of 50% towards repairing the corroded areas on
both front wheel arch panels of your vehicle, in which I am unable to offer a differing response, any further correspondence
received will be attached to your file but may not receive a response.

Should you wish to accept this offer or if you decide to seek a second opinion, please can I ask that you make me aware at your
earliest convenience and I will be happy to assist you wherever possible. However and as previously mentioned, I will be unable
to offer a differing response should you remain unhappy with the resolution as detailed in this and previous correspondence.

Once again, thank you for bringing your concerns to my attention and for allowing me the opportunity to respond.

Yours sincerely

Gary Kitchin
Customer Relations Manager
Volkswagen UK Executive Office

What do I do next?

[JimC64]

Wow, seems like VW as much as they seem to be giving in here n there, also seem to be sticking to their guns with certain cases, and perhaps, willing to go the extra mile.

Foe me.......and its just my stubborn mindedness......

If I was pretty convinced there was no accident or previous repair, I would.....

Check out a small claims action, it isn't necessarily that expensive and then send them a letter "recorded delivery" explaining my position and that I would be starting a small claims court action to test their warranty in the courts, if you do not hear from them in 14 days. After that time, there will be no further correspondence from you in the matter and you will launch court proceedings.

I'd further advise that I have at least a dozen examples where this has been seen to a satisfactory conclusion, and that you will accept no less than 100% free repair under the terms of the warranty.

You do of course have to be prepared to go through with this

We're all very different I know.
I was in the same position as you for some time and also got to this stage, the above is what I done, and was totally prepared to go ALL the way.

It was at this point that they backed down, but they did push me all the way as I suspect they do with many many owners.

Good luck & hope to hear

[Kevster140]

Agree with Jim, because it's not 'covered' its down to their discretion. Maybe if the paint test was ok, you'd get 75% like i did on the golf. I've only read of one who got 100%, see my previous post.

Would arming yourself with all the details and claims you can find online help, maybe. maybe not, as Jim says it will take some effort to argue. It makes my blood boil.

They just need to own up for a poor design. See a new passat the other day a friend just picked up, can't see this being any better in the future after 'wear and tear'!

How much of a cop out is 'will go on file' statement from Mr Kitchen (no offence mr kitchen). Exaclty what was stated to my good self at the time if i rememeber correctly!

[mrvillicus]

thanks fr your help and advice guys I really appreciate it, im going to fight as far as I can and following jims help Ive mailed him asking for details regarding county court action etc and advised I will be putting him down as the main VW contact, lets see what they do now, if they still dont move then Im going all the way

[Irri_Tant]

Now booked in for the 14th August to be viewed

Nearly 'D' day. Wish me luck.

Just been re reading the thread for inspiration.

[Dave Elcome]

Hi.

when i first posted in this topic i had my previous Passat, which at the time was 8 yrs old. The dealer submitted a claim, and after chasing him three times came up with a 40% contribution from me. I accepted this and had the car repaired, as by now i had bought my 4Motion Passat, and i wanted to sell the other one.

Whilst on holiday this year i noticed the tell take sign on the NSF wing, and duly took it to the same dealer. He didn't even begin to try fobbing me off with the mechanical fault excuse that his colleague had dine last yr, measured the paint and then gave me a coffee asking me if i could wait whilst he contacted VW. Within minutes he was back telling me that it had been authorised, and that it would represent a 17% cost to me. As you can imagine i was quite chuffed. The car went in two weeks later, i was supplied with a loan car, and he told me he would check the other wing as well.

at the end of the week he called to say it was ready, and that two new wings had been fitted. When i went back, he handed me the keys and took his loan car keys back, i asked if that was it and he replied it was, but would send something through the post to confirm that the job had been done. I was expecting an invoice with this as well. The next days post arrived, there was the confirmation letter, but no invoice!! So i had mine done free of charge, dead chuffed!! :biglaugh:

[mrvillicus]

good luck irri-tant ive given up, last email from VW gave me the details on where to send a small court claim and they are sticking with their 50% offer no matter what I say or do :( Ive even emailed the CEO martin winterkorn and had a reply from his office, so after all my trying I give up :(

[JimC64]

Nearly 'D' day. Wish me luck.

Just been re reading the thread for inspiration.

Good luck irri-tant...........thinking good thoughts for you.
Be polite, but firm and take no nonsense their end..............you know why this has happened and just want what is rightfully yours.


Hi.

when i first posted in this topic i had my previous Passat, which at the time was 8 yrs old. The dealer submitted a claim, and after chasing him three times came up with a 40% contribution from me. I accepted this and had the car repaired, as by now i had bought my 4Motion Passat, and i wanted to sell the other one.

Whilst on holiday this year i noticed the tell take sign on the NSF wing, and duly took it to the same dealer. He didn't even begin to try fobbing me off with the mechanical fault excuse that his colleague had dine last yr, measured the paint and then gave me a coffee asking me if i could wait whilst he contacted VW. Within minutes he was back telling me that it had been authorised, and that it would represent a 17% cost to me. As you can imagine i was quite chuffed. The car went in two weeks later, i was supplied with a loan car, and he told me he would check the other wing as well.

at the end of the week he called to say it was ready, and that two new wings had been fitted. When i went back, he handed me the keys and took his loan car keys back, i asked if that was it and he replied it was, but would send something through the post to confirm that the job had been done. I was expecting an invoice with this as well. The next days post arrived, there was the confirmation letter, but no invoice!! So i had mine done free of charge, dead chuffed!! :biglaugh:

Nice one Dave, good fix in the end, well chuffed for you mate.
Just remember though, they didn't do you any favours, only did what was right in the end.....They just managed to make you feel like they had done you a favour.

In the end though, the car's all good and you're happy, thats all that matters I guess.
Thanks for sharing...




good luck irri-tant ive given up, last email from VW gave me the details on where to send a small court claim and they are sticking with their 50% offer no matter what I say or do :( Ive even emailed the CEO martin winterkorn and had a reply from his office, so after all my trying I give up :(

MrV.....sorry to hear you feel you've reached a dead end mate.
You had me convinced by your posts you were going all the way, no matter what iirc?

Its such a shame that they've got to you and worn you down....( I do remember how that feels, believe me ) but I had the feeling you were going to get there in the end.
This is what VW have done with so many customers, getting away with murder.........

Hope it works out for you with the car getting sorted one way or another :beerchug:

[Irri_Tant]

Good luck irri-tant...........thinking good thoughts for you.
Be polite, but firm and take no nonsense their end..............you know why this has happened and just want what is rightfully yours.


Polite!!!!!!!!

Appointment was for 10:30. Turns out the area rep has left the company and taken her appointment diary with her. Had to wait until new rep turns up at 12:00. He was late. Turned up at 12:30 saying he had appoint at 12:00. Told him not my problem as I was told he'd be there for 12 as I was.

OK, so far we're straight in at 50% or £572.65 including vat if I were to pay. Indicated I'd refuse that. Rep went through the bull **** from previous post etc. Just waiting on phone call from dealership with number for customer care to pursue the matter from there.

[monkeynuttz]

Funnily enough I am having the exact same problem with my 2004 Audi A4 and have been told by audi to go down the same route as yourself ie, pvwi inspection.
Wondering if anyone has done this and successfully won?

[Dunsmorechap]

Well my front wing problems are now starting up again - even though they were both repaired only 6 weeks ago.

I was changing the wheels earlier, and there on the n/s wing are bubbles coming through the paint! 6 bloody weeks! So went off back to Listers in Coventry, saw the bodyshop manager who seemed as shocked as me, looked though the repair notes and said everything had been done correctly. I just said it was a rubbish repair, and that the rust was must deeper than they thought, so now I'm insisting on both wings being replaced, or they can expect me back as a regular 'customer' to get them repaired time after time.

On another note, VW UK have only offered 50% to sorting out the rust on the tailgate, as they say it is not 'through' rust and was caused by external influences such as stone ships. How on earth they figure stone chips caused rust where the tailgate lock and number plate lights are heaven knows. And not doing any internal inspection to see the rust extent internally. Compliant to Motorcodes now in and a rebuttle letter getting sorted.

[Irri_Tant]

OK, so far we're straight in at 50% or £572.65 including vat if I were to pay. Indicated I'd refuse that.

Phoned Customer Care Services 0845 8508585 / option 1 and now waiting on a call from VW rep re warranty claim. Should be within in 48hrs.

[Irri_Tant]

Phoned Customer Care Services 0845 8508585 / option 1 and now waiting on a call from VW rep re warranty claim. Should be within in 48hrs.

this one's FREE, use 0800 0833914 / option 1

Had to go to main dealer with V5 to register car in my name on their data base before we can go any further. Waiting on call back from them this afternoon.

[Irri_Tant]

Phoned Customer Care Services 0845 8508585 / option 1 and now waiting on a call from VW rep re warranty claim.



Call back from CS now car is on their system to say person dealing with it at the dealership is on hols until Tuesday coming.


CS reckon it's a mechanical issue and not covered by 12 warranty.

[Irri_Tant]

Case now escalated but have been told it would be same outcome :zx11:

Anyone got VW UK's MD's phone number?

[Irri_Tant]

Case now escalated but have been told it would be same outcome :zx11:



Hopeful of better out come after speaking to David Townend from the Exec Office. Didn't say it would be capped at 50%

Expecting call on Friday.

[Irri_Tant]

Hopeful of better out come after speaking to David Townend from the Exec Office. Didn't say it would be capped at 50%

Expecting call on Friday.

Capped at 50% :zx11:

Phone call from Exec Office late yesterday to it's 50% and no more :zx11:

Goodwill from VW UK is 50% but the dealer is not prepared to do 'goodwill' because the car has not been serviced by them.


Exec Office sticking to mechanical fault and car is out of 3 year warranty. Told no point in writing to VW Germany as they will forward back to the UK and end up on the same persons desk in the Exec Office.

[Irri_Tant]

Capped at 50% :zx11:



reported this issue to BBC's watchdog program

so send in your details to back up my email to them

BBC One - Watchdog - Contact us (https://ssl.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mg74/contact)

[djmx5]

It's difficult to understand why VW make this issue so difficult for some folks to address. Having read most of this thread over the last few years there seems to be no end of excuses given as to why a warranty claim will not stand.

By way of opposite experience my 8yr old Passat that I did not buy through VW franchise, nor have had it serviced, has today gone to the body shop for two new wings. I have not had to resort to writing any letters/emails or become involved in protracted discussions about the corrosion/warranty issue. My local VW franchise have kindly taken care of the whole issue following a personal visit to their premises. I have only had to deliver the car to the garage and take a courtesy car.

Completely baffled as to why there appears to be no consistency on the part of VW over this problem. Good luck to you all who have to fight on.

D

[JimC64]

reported this issue to BBC's watchdog program

so send in your details to back up my email to them

BBC One - Watchdog - Contact us (https://ssl.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mg74/contact)

I really urge members that read here to take this advise, no matteer where in the process you are.

I did contact Watchdog AND had several emails back n forth as well as several telephone discussions......It is a known issue
to them by now, the more that complain add weight to the arguement.
VW really do need hauling over the coals the way they've dealt with this scenario!!

[djmx5]

Just got mine back with the two new wings fitted. really nice job. Might be worth giving the guys at the Liverpool VW body shop a call, they are really quite knowledgeable about the issue of rust warranty and i found them worthwhile talking to.
D

[Irri_Tant]

Just got mine back with the two new wings fitted. really nice job.

Is / was your car serviced at the dealership or serviced eleswhere?

[djmx5]

not bought or serviced by VW. The question of servicing never arose during the warranty claim, nor should it, it is irrelevant to VW corrosion warranty according to VW's warranty terms in the handbook.

[Irri_Tant]

not bought or serviced by VW. The question of servicing never arose during the warranty claim, nor should it, it is irrelevant to VW corrosion warranty according to VW's warranty terms in the handbook.

Thank you. Which dealership did you go to?

[djmx5]

Mate I took it to my local dealership in Stafford, all they did was take photo's of the rust and forward the matter to VW (don't know who or where). They then contacted me after about 4-5 weeks to say that the repairs had been authorised and that I was then to contact the VW bodyshop in Liverpool to arrange for the work to be done, this I did and I took the car to Liverpool but they kindly trailered it down to Stafford after completion for me to collect. Utterly painless service. Where are you at with this at present?

[Irri_Tant]

Where are you at with this at present?

Contemplating my next move now I have some more info to put to them on how unfair the process seems to be across the country with dealers seeming to treat it as their money and not corporate money.

[gman71]

Hello All, I have been following this thread with great interest. I own a 2004 bora which has developed corrosion on the nearside arch. I paid a visit to Northgate motors in Bury St Edmunds and chatted to the service department who took some picture, these were then past onto the warranty department. I explained that it is well known that the Boras / Golf's have the particular issue and mentioned that I have the VW bulletin. I received a reply from Northgate today saying that VW will offer a goodwill of 50% of the repair cost!!! They then stated that I could pay the other 50% which would cost £400 per wing !!:( I spoke to a VW approved repairer and they estimated that the cost of a new wing including painting would cost around £350 + VAT per wing. No idea where why VW thought that a new wing would cost £800?????? I now have the warranty department phone number and relevant reference number. I shall be giving them a call within the next couple of days. Would anyone have any tips how to move this forward from here?

[gman71]

Update, just spoke to VW customer services in Leeds. They told me that this is a mechanical issue not a corrosion issue, no surprise there!!! They said that the 50% goodwill was from VW themselves and any further good will would come from the dealer. To the chaps credit he did call Northgate in Bury St Edmunds straight away and called me 5 minutes later. The garage declined to offer any goodwill as I have not used them to service / repair my car since 2007, even though I did mention that my previous Polo was serviced there all the time. My car has only been serviced twice since as it a long life schedule, the fact that it takes me 1 hour round trip to drop the car off means that I take this to a VW specialist in my town. Should I continue to contact VW directly or continue through the dealer and find a solution or should I just cave in????????

[JimC64]

Gman.....you're getting the same ole runaround that most get with this issue I'm afraid.

It is NOT a mechanical issue, it IS a well known fault and one caused by VW at time of design / manufacture.....you did not know and could not have forseen this, so no fault of your own.

Servicing history is NOT relevant, you're also not asking for GOODWILL but instead asking them to honour their WARRANTY.

ALL of this and much much more is in the thread, albeit maybe a longgg way back, but it is still there for you.

Please do yourself a favour and read till your eyes bleed ...lol

You might like to consider creating a word document and copying / pasting the important parts into that for ease of reading in future, for yourself.

Its your car, your decision as to where you go from here......My advice is keep at it until they cave, but I appreciate that we all have different levels of both committment and drive to see things like this through.

It is and can be very time consuming AND stressful, but giving in, for me anyway, wasn't an option.

Good luck

[gman71]

Thanks for the pep talk JimC64. If I get chance over the weekend I shall email watchdog regarding this particular issue and see what they say. Hopefully with enough interest and disgruntled owners they maybe persuaded to take this further, not going to cave in just yet!!

[JimC64]

Sorry Gman, not trying to teach my granny how to suck eggs, just trying to be as helpful as I can.

ALL the info you ever need is in probably the first 20 pages or so of this thread......There's a lot of banter etc here n there too, but the real lengthy post c/w all the info you will find helpful is there I promise you.

The rest is really up to you and how far you're willing to go?

There's been plenty of us that have either had the work done totally for free, some with little hassle and some have had to really chase this up right to the bitter end......It seems to be a numbers game for VW and they win more than they lose by really dragging things out.

Thinking good thoughts for you...

Best

[gman71]

Hi Jim, no need to apologies. I am truly grateful for all the advise that you have given me . When I get a chance I shall read through the pages and see what I could use. Have a good weekend. Graham

[unclespevie]

Just to tag on to this post, my nearside arch has rusted quite bad at 12 o'clock and that i had to put some KURUST on and a dab of paint for now......

it was reg in 2004(54 plate) so is it worth while me trying to get any joy from dealers regarding this......or just my local body shop for repair...

kevin

[djmx5]

I would hold off on the rust treatment and paint until you have let VW examine the affected area. Part of the assessment process for the warranty claim is to take paint thickness readings of the wing. Your well intentioned application of KURUST and/or paint may frustrate this.

And yes, you have nothing to lose by applying for a warranty repair even though your car is 9yrs old.

[unclespevie]

And yes, you have nothing to lose by applying for a warranty repair even though your car is 9yrs old.

worth a try this week me thinks, will let ya know what happens.

kevin

[JimC64]

+1 on djmx5's comments.

You may have done more harm than good by trying to arrest the rust and treat it, then touch up the paint. In all likelihood it will invalidate your warranty, BUT....I'd be asking the question as you never know.

Good luck

[go-for-it1]

Picking mine up tomorrow from the dealers with new wings fitted after accepting a "goodwill!" 50% contribution. I know its defeatist but I couldn't get any more than that without ruining my sanity and taking up hours of my already hectic life chasing VW warranty. Car is a 2004 2.0 Golf GTTDi and both wings were corroding in the same place as described above. I await to see how much my share will come to however the customer services said it would be about £440 inc vat, labour and parts.

[go-for-it1]

Yep, £441 to pay which suggests £882's worth of work, feel I have been ripped off!

[JimC64]

Yep, £441 to pay which suggests £882's worth of work, feel I have been ripped off!

Yep I agree buddy!!

I had the same issue when I went through mine initially, they offered me 50% goodwill, saying it was approx £1200 for 2 wings, removal, renew, paint, labour + vat etc

When I argued my point further they upped it to 70% meaning my end was going to be approx £400 all in........

I told them not so politely to go and "procreate viciously with arachnids".....lol

I got my FULL 100% pay nothing F.O.C goodwill / warranty etc in the end.

So sorry mate, but basically they've got one over on you as they have with so many............really shouldn't be allowed!!!!

[DontBuyVW]

I have the same wing corrosion. As per my post on MSE I was only offered 50% goodwill contribution from the Exec Office. I have sent court papers to VW through Small Claims for the cost of repairs. Normally I'm not the type to go through so much hassle but VW have really upset me with their stance.

It's a Golf and has full VW service history and still they don't want to pay!

[chrisvwgolf]

Started my claim on Saturday on my 55 plate TDI GT 2.0L, was told ill have a phone call on Wednesday ill let you guys know how i get on with them. ( keeping a document on my encounter of who i speak to and times and date ) also have the bulletin saved on my laptop to show them also.

Got rust acutally showing on my drivers side wing, and bubbled paintwork on the passenger side wing. read alot through this post and im willing to go all of the way! seeing my car is in pretty much perfect condition, got a good 6-7 year service history with VW though ive only had the car for a year now, well 14 months - rust appeared to happen rather quickly.

Anyways ill keep you informed on how i get on, i imagine being fobbed as im only 25 :) and im guessing they think ill back down if they fob me off enough!

[JimC64]

Good luck guys.......

ALL the info you need is in this thread, read and re read and you will find it all.

There are some "thank you" posts and "stick in there" posts, but most of the useful info can be scanned fairly quickly in the first 20 pages or so.

My tip - create a word doc and copy / pasts all the useful info as required for an easy referencew "quick guide".....This can still amount to around 7 pages but well worth the effort.

Here's wishing you the best and hoping you stick it out till the final victory for a totally 100% FREE fix.

[djmx5]

"I have sent court papers to VW through Small Claims for the cost of repairs. "

I for one would be really interested to know how you get on with this....please keep us all posted and good luck to you.
D

[Irri_Tant]

Got a reply via Facebook with a couple of email address for us all to bombard ;)

[Guest 2]

Yes always complain publically via social media, twitter being more effective than facebook.

Seen this on a couple of occasions where social media has resolved things.

[Irri_Tant]

Yes always complain publically via social media, twitter being more effective than facebook.

Seen this on a couple of occasions where social media has resolved things.

I've used twitter but not had a reply. Maybe another go then.

[JimC64]

Good luck guys.......

ALL the info you need is in this thread, read and re read and you will find it all.

There are some "thank you" posts and "stick in there" posts, but most of the useful info can be scanned fairly quickly in the first 20 pages or so.

My tip - create a word doc and copy / pasts all the useful info as required for an easy referencew "quick guide".....This can still amount to around 7 pages but well worth the effort.

Here's wishing you the best and hoping you stick it out till the final victory for a totally 100% FREE fix.

I seem to get more than a few emails on this and am always happy to help where I can of course, but please ensure you follow the advice above to give yourselves THE BEST chance possible.

For those that continue to ask, the bulletin referred to is post #33 page 4 of this thread!!

Lastly, Read, read and re read this thread, probably the first 25 pages will be enough to get you through

[DontBuyVW]

Just to update, VW backed down and decided to settle out of court. Although I'm satisfied with the outcome, it is a great disappointment that I had to go through all that.

[JimC64]

Agreed, its such a shame and is very narrow minded IMO.............There's many that willl be disillusioned and won't ever buy VW again

Congrats for sticking it out for the WIN!!

[bigchap]

So can I ask even though I have recently purchased this car with the above corrosion to both wings from a small car dealer.....is it still possible to launch a claim to VW on their corrosion warranty??? Thanks, Lee

[Guest 2]

Yes. Road the thread and you'll see other peoples stories.

[JimC64]

So can I ask even though I have recently purchased this car with the above corrosion to both wings from a small car dealer.....is it still possible to launch a claim to VW on their corrosion warranty??? Thanks, Lee

Lee, As long as your car falls within the 12 year warranty period and no repairs attempted then YES, read, read, read this thread, arm yourself with ALL the necessary info and go for it

[passat owner]

Re front wing corrosion (both wings).

I have a VW Passat SE TDI diesel first registered on 29/04/2003 (03 Plate) with a genuine 37,508 miles on the clock.
This was my company car that I had from new and purchased when I retired, thinking it would see me out, so I am the only keeper of the car.

On 16 October I took the car to Inchscape in Chelmsford to make a claim under the 12 year body warranty. They took the car away for about 15 minutes then returned it saying they would contact VW with a claim.
On 25/10/13 Dealer phoned and said claim rejected without giving any reason and suggested I contact VW customer care if I wanted further reasons (left me to find their number..very helpful)
31/10/13 Contacted customer care who could not find any record of my claim. They looked into it and contacted garage and to cut the story short eventually came back and said it was a "mechanical issue and not covered under body warranty". Requested they write stating this.
Received confirmation letter that from other comments on here seems to be a standard letter (see #137). Basically they had contacted the dealer who said
"the problem arose because the protective covering of the paintwork in the wheel arch of your vehicle was compromised. This allowed water to penetrate under the paint work, causing corrosion from the outside in." The letter went on to say "The issue is not covered by the 12 year warranty. It would have been covered by your vehicle's 3 year warranty which has now expired".

The letter also said
"I understand your vehicle is over 10 years old and has an incomplete Volkswagen service history. For these reasons there is no goodwill available.

The letter was signed by James Taylor, customer relations manager.

I have read through the comments on this forum and will be writing (recorded delivery) stating that my claim was specifically based on the 12 year warranty for both wings, asking what is meant by "compromised", referring to the technical bulletin etc etc all as mentioned on here.

What interests me is that the problem is a design one that is known about caused by the wing liner rubbing on the bodywork mainly on diesels (due to extra vibration over petrol?) perhaps this is why it has taken just over 10.5 years to manifest on my car due to only having done 37,500 miles. They are again referring to service history that has no relevance. My other posts on here outline why I went away from VW servicing.
Any further help about my claim appreciated.

[JimC64]

Hi there, thanks for your post.

You are on the ball with everything you say and quite within your rights to claim under the warranty as stated.....It is NOT a mechanical issue.

I won't go into all the details required as they are all available in this thread....Please do yourself a favour and read & re read the thread making notes as required and fight on for the victory.

You are not asking for any GOODWILL but claiming undr warranty. If they offer 50% or even 70% goodwill for both wings it could still mean you paying around £300 - £400 which is excessive to say the least.

The TSB you require is on page 4 of this thread, something like post #33 iirc

Good luck

[bigchap]

I just wanted to let you lot know how delighted I am after reading all your info on this thread. I just bought a Passat '04 plate this week in fab condition apart from both wings being badly corroded. I rang Arnold Clark Volkswagen in Linwood(Paisley) today regarding the warranty for the first time. They asked me to bring the car for inspection,within ten minutes the car was booked into their body shop in two weeks time under a good will gesture for all the work to be complete 100% FREE!!!!! FANTASTIC and well done Arnold Clark for outstanding service. Well chuffed hey. Thanks also to this forum......yeeeehaaa

[Irri_Tant]

All this smacks of double standards from VW. They need hauling over the coals for this mess. The sooner the better.

[JimC64]

I just wanted to let you lot know how delighted I am after reading all your info on this thread. I just bought a Passat '04 plate this week in fab condition apart from both wings being badly corroded. I rang Arnold Clark Volkswagen in Linwood(Paisley) today regarding the warranty for the first time. They asked me to bring the car for inspection,within ten minutes the car was booked into their body shop in two weeks time under a good will gesture for all the work to be complete 100% FREE!!!!! FANTASTIC and well done Arnold Clark for outstanding service. Well chuffed hey. Thanks also to this forum......yeeeehaaa

Well done, great result!!!

Lets be honest, as with me and others its actually WARRANTY..............They can call it Goodwill orwhatever they want as long as they fix it for FREE!!

Best

Jim

[bobbertandsammy]

Hey guys, not long found this thread. Have an 03 mk4 tdi and have been trying to get the same level of service some others have had from VW. Just off the phone with them after being told this is a goodwill issue covered for 10 years (mines has just turned 10 1/2) and no cover or goodwill available at all. Have been repeatedly told the 12 year anti corrosion warranty only cover defects in body panels from manufacture. Anyone got any ideas?

[djemmay]

Just to update, VW backed down and decided to settle out of court. Although I'm satisfied with the outcome, it is a great disappointment that I had to go through all that.
Hi, can anyone please advise which Small Claims Court Form I need to fill in to pursue this method and how much it will cost? I've taken a look on the Government Gateway website and I cannot work out which is the correct form? I have been through the whole process with my 55/2006 mk5 Golf 1.9 TDI; sills and arches on both sides are rusting and they have offered me 50% goodwill contribution which I've told them is not good enough. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[donniep]

Hi, can anyone please advise which Small Claims Court Form I need to fill in to pursue this method and how much it will cost? I've taken a look on the Government Gateway website and I cannot work out which is the correct form? I have been through the whole process with my 55/2006 mk5 Golf 1.9 TDI; sills and arches on both sides are rusting and they have offered me 50% goodwill contribution which I've told them is not good enough. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Hi, I've got the same problem. Rust on both front arches on my 2005 Passat & my local dealer said the would only offer 50% as a goodwill gesture, They didn't even bother to look at my car!

I contacted VW UK & they told me that they provide the 50% & then it's up to the dealership to decide if you should get any further assistance. VW UK were insistent that this is a "good will gesture" & that they want to look after their customers, I told them that expecting me to pay £500 towards the repair when this should be covered under warranty was far from good will. I'm looking into a small claim through the Scottish courts. It's unbelievable how VW get away with this!!!!

[passat owner]

An update to my claim Post #425

As stated I wrote to customer services and have not got anywhere. They telephoned me and I requested they put conversation in writing.

They stated again that the corrosion was not "through corrosion" and not covered by 12 year anti-perforation warranty.
They have investigated a goodwill gesture with the dealer. a number of factors are considered when reviewing a goodwill contribution including age, mileage, service history, ownership and the issue in question. After applying these parameters and reviewing your case, we are unable to offer any support towards the cost of this repair on your vehicle.

The issue seems to be that any payment by them for this issue is a goodwill gesture, and I don't qualify. From conversations and letters they are saying vehicle over 10 years old (10 years 6 months) when I contacted dealer, service history and the loyalty of the owner shown towards VW brand (incomplete Volkswagen service history although serviced every year and T. belt changed twice) and mileage (47,500). It would seem that the dealer has a major say in all this.

As a next step I am going to write to the CEO Mr Robert Hazlewood but don't hold out much hope. If they treat purchasers of their products like this it is not surprising no loyalty is shown.

I want to sell the car and downsize but this problem is obviously an issue.

Anyone interested in buying a very low mileage Passat with inherent design wing rust, as a project?

[bigchap]

An update to my claim Post #425

As stated I wrote to customer services and have not got anywhere. They telephoned me and I requested they put conversation in writing.

They stated again that the corrosion was not "through corrosion" and not covered by 12 year anti-perforation warranty.
They have investigated a goodwill gesture with the dealer. a number of factors are considered when reviewing a goodwill contribution including age, mileage, service history, ownership and the issue in question. After applying these parameters and reviewing your case, we are unable to offer any support towards the cost of this repair on your vehicle.

The issue seems to be that any payment by them for this issue is a goodwill gesture, and I don't qualify. From conversations and letters they are saying vehicle over 10 years old (10 years 6 months) when I contacted dealer, service history and the loyalty of the owner shown towards VW brand (incomplete Volkswagen service history although serviced every year and T. belt changed twice) and mileage (47,500). It would seem that the dealer has a major say in all this.

As a next step I am going to write to the CEO Mr Robert Hazlewood but don't hold out much hope. If they treat purchasers of their products like this it is not surprising no loyalty is shown.

I want to sell the car and downsize but this problem is obviously an issue.

Anyone interested in buying a very low mileage Passat with inherent design wing rust, as a project?


Well thats a shame, VW Linwood(Paisley) didnt ask me any questions or the fact that I had only bought the car two weeks earlier and agreed to do the work 100% free! I'll buy it and get it done for you :D

[Rickyang]

Hi guys
Can anyone give an email address for gary kitchin at VW had a call from him but no email as he said he would
Cheers
Ricky

[passat owner]

I don't have an email address for Gary Kitchen but I looked up the email address for the MD Robert Hazlewood on the VW website and that was robert.hazlewood@volkswagen.co.uk

On the same basis would suggest it would be gary.kitchen@volkswagen.co.uk for Gary Kitchen

[Rickyang]

Thanks for the reply
Gary sent me an email today so i can now get back to him
again thanks for your help

[Jarralass2007]

I'm new to this so apologies in advance. I have a vw 1.9 tdi match. It's a 57 plate with 40k on the clock. Iv looked after the car really well but some 6 months ago rust appeared on the passenger wheel arch and has spread like wild fire. Iv been told it now needs a new panel and respray. After trying to find people with similar story's I stumbled across you lot, thank heavens. I have been told by vw that they will not repair the damage caused by the rust as I am the second owner of the car. Has anyone been told the same? Apologies if this has been answered before but thanks in advance if anyone replies.

[JimC64]

I'm new to this so apologies in advance. I have a vw 1.9 tdi match. It's a 57 plate with 40k on the clock. Iv looked after the car really well but some 6 months ago rust appeared on the passenger wheel arch and has spread like wild fire. Iv been told it now needs a new panel and respray. After trying to find people with similar story's I stumbled across you lot, thank heavens. I have been told by vw that they will not repair the damage caused by the rust as I am the second owner of the car. Has anyone been told the same? Apologies if this has been answered before but thanks in advance if anyone replies.

It doesn't matter if you're the 2nd, 3rd or 4th owner of thecar, it doesn't matter if it has a full VW service history either...........For your benefit and peace of mind, please do your self a favour.

Go to the start of the thread and read, read, read all the way through

You will find the TSB that relates to this on post #33 page 4, but again I recommend you read ALL the way through.

Absolutely everything you need to fight your case, has been discussed within many times, all the info is there for you.

Now go and fight for what is rightfully yours and don't let them fob you off with 50% good will or similar

Good luck

[MysteryMan]

Firstly, thanks to all contributors of this thread. It has been a great help as I have fallen foul of the dreaded rust on front wing! My first visit to local dealer got the same response most of you have had (caused by foam pad, mechanical issue, not covered by perforation warranty, VW may offer a goodwill contribution).

Went back today and they've offered 50% of £460 repair costs. I have just sent off the following letter to Customer Services and will keep you informed of developments......

Dear Sir

I am writing to you regarding my VW Golf GTI (*******).

I recently noticed that there is an area of rust forming on one of the front wings and took it along to my local VW dealer (************) for them to inspect. I saw ********* and he told me that the problem was caused by a foam pad behind the wing, which rubs on the metal and eventually lets rust form. He claimed this was a mechanical fault and would not be covered by the 12-year perforation warranty. However, he expected VW to offer to pay for a proportion of the repair costs.

Today, I spoke to him again and he confirms that VW have offered to pay 50% of the £460 repair.

Since the first visit I have spent many hours researching this on the internet and reading through hundreds of posts on various VW forums where I learnt that this is, in fact, a common and well known problem with Golfs around this age. Indeed, the spiel that ***** gave me is the standard response and one that I cannot accept.

I do not believe this to be ‘mechanical’ and am strongly of the view that it is covered by the 12-year perforation warranty. I have in my possession the worldwide bulletin issued by VW to their workshops detailing the problem and steps needed to rectify. This clearly indicates that VW are aware of a widespread issue caused by the original design and manufacture of the vehicle.

********* was unable to provide a warranty claim reference but did say that if you call him then he is happy to provide further details.

I would very much appreciate it if you can provide a reference for me, please, as this will make it much easier to communicate in the future.

If the VW view is that this is not covered by the perforation warranty then I would appreciate it if you could articulate the reasons for your decision, please.
Just in case it is relevant in your deliberations I would point out that over the past 35 years I have owned the following VAG cars:


K

VW Variant



R

VW Scirocco (Mk 1)



Y

VW Golf GTI (Mk 1)



A

VW Golf GTI (Mk 2)



D

VW Golf GTI (Mk 2)



Y

Audi A3 Quattro



02

VW Lupo



54

VW Polo



56

VW Golf GTI (Mk 5)



06

VW Golf GTI (Mk 5)




As you can see, I have been extremely loyal to the VAG brand over the years and have always seen it as a strong, trustworthy company. I realise that occasionally even the best companies make mistakes and something slips through the net. However, the true mark of a great company is how it then deals with the situation. In this particular case I will be disappointed with anything less than an offer to restore my car to its rightful condition at no expense to myself.

I look forward to hearing from you at the earliest opportunity.

[MysteryMan]

Message to nas_hudd and irri-Tant....

Did you ever get anywhere with VW or did they stick to their 50% offer?

Also, has anyone ever got as far as lodging a claim in Small Claims Court?

[JimC64]

Good luck MM.......you seem to be on the right track

I threatened small claims court action but never had to go that far.

[D3VVE]

HI all got myself a Golf MK5 R32 on a 56 plate and yes i'm having the dreaded front wing rusting issue. Taken the car down to inchcape in Altrincham where i was offered 50% for the nearside front wing to be replaced. i was also told that the mod had been carried out on the driverside wing in 2012 where a new wing was fitted. I have printed out the service letter and now the fun begins with Vw as i try to get them to pay the full amount. my main gripe is that only one wing was replaced in 2012 three years after the service letter was issued. I said on the phone to customer services this is a worldwide known issue and that as sure as night follows day the near side wing would rust so why wasn't it replaced or the very least the matting cut away as prevention is better than cure. The reply was if it wasn't rusting they wouldn't have looked at it.
Has anyone else had only one wing replace only to find out in the next couple of years they would be going through it all again. ive only owned the car since Dec 2013 and was unawre of any rusting issues.

Thanks in advance

[donniep]

[QUOTE=MysteryMan;884408]Message to nas_hudd and irri-Tant....

[MysteryMan]

I have just had a call from VW (in response to letter) and they are saying they agree with the dealer's assessment and are not willing to change the 50% goodwill offer.

He said that this is the standard offer and will never be changed - if anyone has received a great contribution to the repair then the difference has been paid by the dealer. Do people know if this is true?

I asked for it all to be put in writing and should get this in a few days time. Then I have to decide on what to do next.

[Doctor-X]

I have just had a call from VW (in response to letter) and they are saying they agree with the dealer's assessment and are not willing to change the 50% goodwill offer.

He said that this is the standard offer and will never be changed - if anyone has received a great contribution to the repair then the difference has been paid by the dealer. Do people know if this is true?

I asked for it all to be put in writing and should get this in a few days time. Then I have to decide on what to do next.

I stumbled across this thread a couple of weeks ago after finding my 2004 passat highline had developed rust on the front wing. I printed loads of stuff out from here to arm myself & contacted my local vw dealer. I was told I would need to contact a vw dealer with a bodyshop as they would need to take some paint readings & photograph the area. I phoned the nearest to me & spoke to a manager who deals with warranties. I was all ready to hit him with my findings but was taken aback when he actually explained to me what the problem was and if I brought the car down, as long as everything checked out, they would book my car in for repair. He looked my car up on the computer & said my car qualified for a 50% good will gesture from vw & they would match that & pay the other 50%. He explained that they were doing this in order to gain possible future business from people going back there.
Now I don't know what criteria my car met to qualify for the free repairs but I drove down 3 days later & spoke to the very nice man who took paint readings, photographed the car from several angles & filled in a job sheet, explaining that I would hear back from the bodyshop about booking my car in. Low and behold, a week later, my car is booked in for 1st April!!....They are even picking it up from my house!!!

I hope you'll understand if I don't publish the name of the dealer I went to until I have had all the work done & am happy with it, it's just I don't want any ill feeling from the dealer by having had several hundred people phoning him quoting me!!...I promise i'll let you know the dealer second week in April when my cars back. So basically MysteryMan, yes, it is true!!!

btw, it's amazing how many passats I now notice driving round with rusty wings... I just want to pull them over & explain!

[JimC64]

btw, it's amazing how many passats I now notice driving round with rusty wings... I just want to pull them over & explain!

Lol, its the one thing I notice all the time now on Golfs, Passats, Jettas etc..............rusty wings everywhere.

I do take the time to explain to most of them, although for some, might as well save my breath as they're obviously not car people, but.....
If I can help one or two then it'll be worth it

[MysteryMan]

I stumbled across this thread a couple of weeks ago after finding my 2004 passat highline had developed rust on the front wing. I printed loads of stuff out from here to arm myself & contacted my local vw dealer. I was told I would need to contact a vw dealer with a bodyshop as they would need to take some paint readings & photograph the area. I phoned the nearest to me & spoke to a manager who deals with warranties. I was all ready to hit him with my findings but was taken aback when he actually explained to me what the problem was and if I brought the car down, as long as everything checked out, they would book my car in for repair. He looked my car up on the computer & said my car qualified for a 50% good will gesture from vw & they would match that & pay the other 50%. He explained that they were doing this in order to gain possible future business from people going back there.
Now I don't know what criteria my car met to qualify for the free repairs but I drove down 3 days later & spoke to the very nice man who took paint readings, photographed the car from several angles & filled in a job sheet, explaining that I would hear back from the bodyshop about booking my car in. Low and behold, a week later, my car is booked in for 1st April!!....They are even picking it up from my house!!!

I hope you'll understand if I don't publish the name of the dealer I went to until I have had all the work done & am happy with it, it's just I don't want any ill feeling from the dealer by having had several hundred people phoning him quoting me!!...I promise i'll let you know the dealer second week in April when my cars back. So basically MysteryMan, yes, it is true!!!

btw, it's amazing how many passats I now notice driving round with rusty wings... I just want to pull them over & explain!

Great news for you! Just had the letter from VW which says they are not budging form 50% goodwill offer.

I wait with bated breath to find out your dealer although it would be a miracle if it were near me!!!!

[MysteryMan]

Hi, sent off my claim through the small claims court today. At the end of last year I went to my local dealership as both front wings started to rust on my 05 Passat, I was told I would only get 50% towards the £1000 repair cost. I also noticed that there is rust around the small lights underneath by boot handle so went back last week and was told again I would only get 50% towards the cost which could potentially cost £900 as a new boot lid might be needed.

In total they expect me to pay £950 towards the repair for the rust. So that was it Small claims court!!! Will let you know how I get on, hopefully the best £71 I've ever spent.

Between this and my bloody rear foot well leaking again, I'm starting to get severely hacked off with VW's!!!!!!!!!!!!

I may be heading down the same route......please keep us updated on progress of your claim

[unclespevie]

well my N/S front has the rust and paint came off ?/
also has the rusty number plate lights as well....

for what its worth i am gonna repair them myself, cheaper to get replacement wings and paint them meself, at least i know i will have treated both sides of them first ?

regards the tail gate....mmm not sure yet could be a bit tricky that one with been round the actual lights for the number plate..

anyone bought any wings latley as to the price of them.

kevin

[MysteryMan]

Having had the "brick wall" standard reply from VW Customer Services I am about to pen a response and thought I would send a copy to someone higher up in teh VW organisation. Does anyone have the name and/or email address for the top guy or anyone else that might be worth approaching?

[unclespevie]

Having had the "brick wall" standard reply from VW Customer Services I am about to pen a response and thought I would send a copy to someone higher up in teh VW organisation. Does anyone have the name and/or email address for the top guy or anyone else that might be worth approaching?


this item on fleabay ( 2 front wings 231188933242), surely buy these ad get then painted will b cheaper than VW doing h job with the 50% good will as well,.

that's what I an doing, paint them myself or get a a price for a paint shop and if not bade get them done.
kevin

my damn keyboard playing up again typing

[JimC64]

this item on fleabay ( 2 front wings 231188933242), surely buy these ad get then painted will b cheaper than VW doing h job with the 50% good will as well,.

that's what I an doing, paint them myself or get a a price for a paint shop and if not bade get them done.
kevin

my damn keyboard playing up again typing

I honestly can't believe anyone that would rather pay out ofther own pockets than fight for something they're entitled too?

Each to their own I guess, and I undersstand the logic in doing it yourself with pattern parts privately for say £300 as opposed to getting 50% good will and still paying £500 through the dealer, as an example, but.......

You / we are in the right and its time the little guy stood up to the big multi nationals and fought their case, this being a prime example.

For me, it was a point of principle, even if it ended up costing me money ( which it didn't ) to fight for what is right and what I'm due.

All the evidence is here in 46 pages that people like myself and many others have taken the time to post, to help those that come afterwards, hopefully making it a little easier than it was for us.
Thats all we can do and its down to each individual after that

Good luck to all.......

[MysteryMan]

this item on fleabay ( 2 front wings 231188933242), surely buy these ad get then painted will b cheaper than VW doing h job with the 50% good will as well,.

that's what I an doing, paint them myself or get a a price for a paint shop and if not bade get them done.
kevin

my damn keyboard playing up again typing

This will be my LAST resort as I am planning to pursue the case with VW as far as reasonable!

Does anyone have name/email for VW boss so I can contact him?

[rlockhat]

Just to update, VW backed down and decided to settle out of court. Although I'm satisfied with the outcome, it is a great disappointment that I had to go through all that.
Hi I wanted to know what did you do exactly? Did you fill in the paperwork online and once to filled your claim via the small claims court to sent them the notification? Did you email them the notification? Was it at this stage they offer to pay for the repairs? Did you have to stop your claim them in court?
sorry for all the questions but I am in the same situation, you were in so i would be very grateful if you could help me? Could you explain the process you when through so maybe VW will payout for me.

Many Thanks

[unclespevie]

I was only doing the repairs myself for few reasons.

1 - at least i know when i use a new wing it will be treated underneath as well.
2 - i will paint it propperly
3 - if it for some reason bubbles (i suppose the VW shop will only guarantee there work for a period of time and if rust comes back can you claim again ?) do come back then i dont have the polava of trying to claim again.

now when VW do the repaires, are they changing the wing to a new one or just reparing the old one ??? how do you know what they have done to your car, do you get a breakdown of materials used, as i say at least if i do it myself i know whats used and done correctly.

Not saying VW will do a bad job but its a risk in any area you get the work done, VW, local garage, mates rates etc.

just my thoughts thats all

kevin

[JimC64]

VW will replace with new wings as required and paint to spec

They'll also do a modification to the damping material that caused this in the first place.

Absolute worst case scenario, if like mine it took 8 years or so to manifest itself, its likely that you'll be good for at least another 6-8 years at which time its generally unlikely you'll own the car.

And its all for FREE as pe the warranty :approve:

Just my 2c worth

[MysteryMan]

Hi I wanted to know what did you do exactly? Did you fill in the paperwork online and once to filled your claim via the small claims court to sent them the notification? Did you email them the notification? Was it at this stage they offer to pay for the repairs? Did you have to stop your claim them in court?
sorry for all the questions but I am in the same situation, you were in so i would be very grateful if you could help me? Could you explain the process you when through so maybe VW will payout for me.

Many Thanks

Well done. Like rlockhat, I fear I may need to go down this route and would appreciate any help/details you can. Also, did you get the fee paid to bring the claim refunded by VW or do you have to stand that cost?

[unclespevie]

VW will replace with new wings as required and paint to spec

They'll also do a modification to the damping material that caused this in the first place.

Absolute worst case scenario, if like mine it took 8 years or so to manifest itself, its likely that you'll be good for at least another 6-8 years at which time its generally unlikely you'll own the car.

And its all for FREE as pe the warranty :approve:

Just my 2c worth

in your case its a good result but in most cases where they pay 50% of the bill which means you pay around £500 ish to get the job done, but in my case i cant afford that much so hence i doing it myself.

i have resprayed my old DR650 bike and came out excellent so i am confident on the car wings.....but i suppose the biggest problem is paint match after sprayed, old paint thats faded against new paint.....suppose thats the cost of experience getting VW to do it...

Just because its a reputable garage doing the work doesnt always mean its a top notch job, i am sure people have had that experience before?.

good conversation tho, like what people have to share on there views.

kevin

[JimC64]

in your case its a good result but in most cases where they pay 50% of the bill which means you pay around £500 ish to get the job done, but in my case i cant afford that much so hence i doing it myself.

i have resprayed my old DR650 bike and came out excellent so i am confident on the car wings.....but i suppose the biggest problem is paint match after sprayed, old paint thats faded against new paint.....suppose thats the cost of experience getting VW to do it...

Just because its a reputable garage doing the work doesnt always mean its a top notch job, i am sure people have had that experience before?.

good conversation tho, like what people have to share on there views.

kevin


I agree that I had a good result Kevin, and please believe me when I say I don't mean to sound condescending, but I worked really hard for it, because its what I was owed.

I really do understand your thinking though, as that was considered by me too, but as the absolute very last option

Hope it all goes well for you Kevin

Jim

[steaming]

Hi,
In 2012 I had the same with my 2003 B5.5, was gutted to spot the rust and nervous to take to a VW main dealer as it had been a few years since having it serviced there. anyway I made a appointment with Nottingham VW West Bridgeford and took it down, they were very friendly checking my car over and testing the paint thickness for resprays. My claim was submitted for me for two new front wings.
a few weeks later they agreed to pay 70% with me paying the rest.
i had a free hire car provided whilst mine was repaired, which took several weeks. I also paid for the bonnet to be resprayed as a stone chip had gone rusty.
When collected my car I was informed that VW had changed there claims stance and we're now paying for the lot.
All I paid for was £100 for the bonnet respray and £30 a side blending fee.
Car looked great.

[MysteryMan]

When did you get repair done? As far as I know they are not "paying the lot" at the moment!!!


Hi,
In 2012 I had the same with my 2003 B5.5, was gutted to spot the rust and nervous to take to a VW main dealer as it had been a few years since having it serviced there. anyway I made a appointment with Nottingham VW West Bridgeford and took it down, they were very friendly checking my car over and testing the paint thickness for resprays. My claim was submitted for me for two new front wings.
a few weeks later they agreed to pay 70% with me paying the rest.
i had a free hire car provided whilst mine was repaired, which took several weeks. I also paid for the bonnet to be resprayed as a stone chip had gone rusty.
When collected my car I was informed that VW had changed there claims stance and we're now paying for the lot.
All I paid for was £100 for the bonnet respray and £30 a side blending fee.
Car looked great.

[steaming]

2012 when the car was nine years old

[MysteryMan]

Well, they must have had another change of mind since then!!!!


2012 when the car was nine years old

[JimC64]

Its not a change of mind MM

It seems that its dependent on the day of the week, the time of the month, your location in the country and the dealer you use as well as your attidue on the day combined with what you wear and what you say.

In essences there's no rhyme or reason to why some ar given 50%, some are offered 70% and either settle or fight to the bitter end / accept defeat.

It is however helping to give VW a bad name and should be highlighted in the press so that all get the fix their entitled too

[MysteryMan]

Yes, point taken!

I have written to Customer Service and MD of VW(UK) to give them a final chance to cover the repair before I start the Small Claims process. My comments to the MD were along the lines you say and point out how they are in danger of ruining their reputation for quality. Expect it wont actually reach him and I will be fobbed off by one of his minions!!!!



Its not a change of mind MM

It seems that its dependent on the day of the week, the time of the month, your location in the country and the dealer you use as well as your attidue on the day combined with what you wear and waht you say.

In essences there's no Rhyme or reason to why some ar given 50%, some are offered 70% and either settle or fight to the bitter end / accept defeat.

It is however helping to give VW a bad name and should be highlighted in the press so that all get the fix their entitled too

[JimC64]

Yes, point taken!

I have written to Customer Service and MD of VW(UK) to give them a final chance to cover the repair before I start the Small Claims process. My comments to the MD were along the lines you say and point out how they are in danger of ruining their reputation for quality. Expect it wont actually reach him and I will be fobbed off by one of his minions!!!!

Good for you MM......

All the info you need is contained within this thread................stand your ground and fight your case.

You're only looking for what you're entitledto, nothing more

Hope to hear


Good luck

[MysteryMan]

Thanks and, yes, I will certainly keep the forum informed.

I have the offer of help from a lawyer to fill in claim form, which is a bonus!!!!!


Good for you MM......

All the info you need is contained within this thread................stand your ground and fight your case.

You're only looking for what you're entitledto, nothing more

Hope to hear


Good luck

[MysteryMan]

Well, the news is good! Following the letter written to MD of Volkswagen (UK) I was contacted by a chap from the Executive Office and, after asking a few questions, he said he would get back to me within a few days to let me know what they plan to do. True to his word, he has done, and let me know that the wing will be replaced with no charge to me!!!!! This is to include a courtesy car, as well.

So, fair play to them, they have arrived at the right outcome with a little persuasion.

Just as a final point, when I called to book it in, the bodyshop said, "Oh this is a warranty job, isn't it?" Maybe, this was just a slip of the tongue, but, an interesting comment.

Booked in for a couple of weeks time - I will check and double check that this includes bending into door panel!

Phew!

[JimC64]

WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER..............LOL

Well done you for staying with it, although as you and I both know, you ( like I and others ) have only won what we were due in the first place.

Thanks for coming back to post

[Irri_Tant]

I have written to Customer Service and MD of VW(UK) to give them a final chance to cover the repair before I start the Small Claims process. My comments to the MD were along the lines you say and point out how they are in danger of ruining their reputation for quality. Expect it wont actually reach him and I will be fobbed off by one of his minions!!!!

Can those not lucky enough to get close to having the work done for free have a copy of your letter please:approve:

I only got the offer of 50% :mad:

[Irri_Tant]

Following the letter written to MD of Volkswagen (UK)


Found the letter I hope, post 440?

[Kevster140]

Booked in for a couple of weeks time - I will check and double check that this includes bending into door panel!

Phew!

Nice one, best check the door blending. Don't forget it needs to be spot on once painted (as per the repair procedure, unlike my local dealer)

[Wheato's]

Hi everyone,

I came across this post after discovering the dreaded front nearside wing corrosion. I've nearly been through the whole thread which fills me with dread, determination and hope! I've got a 2006 Passat 2.0tdi Sport with nearly 100k on the clock but overall in very good condition. I bought the car second hand privately in 2010 and I have always had it serviced at my local VW dealer as well as having non serviced items carried out there.

I have only just noticed the through corrosion and it seems to have just come out of nowhere! I have rang another local dealer which have their own VW bodyshop. I have used this VW garage before for both servicing and the body shop for when my wife's 2005 VW Golf ended up with corrosion on the front wings. These were both replaced at the same time as the car was in for repairs following an accident so I have never had to fully go through the through corrosion warranty process which appears to be a bit of a minefield! The reason I have gone to this garage which is a bit further than my local one is that the finish and end result on my wife's Golf was excellent.

My Passat goes in this afternoon for it's 'initial inspection' so I will know more then but I'm feeling pretty apprehensive! I'm expecting quite a long drawn out process but at the same time I'm not going to be happy with anything less than 100% replacement/repair from VW.

I will update with my progress which hopefully may assist others in doing the same

242322423324234

[Wheato's]

Promoting the cause on Volkswagen UK Facebook page....

24240

[unclespevie]

well next week I will visiting VW to show them my car, also to ask, has anyones boot started to bubble, mine has quite bad near the number plate lights.

will take some pics and post in photobucket.

thanks

[john murphy]

24318 Hi from a new member

Regarding this issue with the front wings the car had started bubbling when I bought it and thought I would get round to getting it sorted but with life being so busy never got round to it.But after the winter it has really deteriorated fast and when washing it last week well as you can see in photo took the paint of and YUK there it was rust showing.
Went on a vw site last nice looking for local body shops and someone pointed out that as the car is 2003 golf tdi it should still be under corrosion 12 yr warranty brilliant i thought.
Contacted my nearest VW Body shop today and the answer I got was now it is ten yrs for this issue with the wheel arches corroding.So settled for that until reading this thread and really think I need to pursue my claim so very useful advice.

John m

Have a nice weekend folks

[JimC64]

Its 12 years on the corrosion warranty not ten, don't let them fool you!!

To anyone that gets an offer of 50%, thats their std opening gambit pretty much for all and could leave you with a bill of £600 or so depnding on the extent of the issue.

They may raise it to 70% or in some case go straight there, again it can leave you will a bill of £300+ for something thats not your fault, you knew nothing about and is essentially a design flaw.

Read, read and re read this thread, get yourself properly armed and ready for the fight, for what is rightfully yours......a 100% FREE fix of your issues.

You will need to be strong and resolute as you will get many NO's to your claim initially, but thats what they're banking on.

To my mind there should be a recall on this, but VW are skimping out on it and basically getting away with murder......It seems that more than a few Audi's are affected too!!!

Whenever I see a Golf / Passat / Jetta etc now they mostly have rusty wings, I take great delight in telling the owners about this issue and advising they fight to get it resolved.

Good luck to all

[Wheato's]

Update,

17th April - Visited VW retailer who assessed my nearside wing. Paint readings taken which proved it was the original wing. Photos then taken and then had the obligatory VW explanation of the fact it is a mechanical issue that's caused the corrosion with the sponge in between the plastic wheel arch liner and the wing. VW guy was quite informative in that he stated he had seen quite a few of these and said mine was the worse he had seen. Went on to say he would submit the claim there and then on the system as VW UK respond instantly. He then showed me the claim he submitted on his computer screen and the reply from VW UK moments later which specified a 50% goodwill discount. I did question the rational behind this and the guy did almost encourage me to contact VW UK directly but stated he had never known anyone to really get any better offer as 50% is what VW UK specify as their policy on the matter.

Costs quoted to me was £520 for the wing with me picking up half the bill.

Once I got home I sat down and wrote a letter covering the whole history of the matter and what had happened so far and also included our household's history of VW's. Sent this to VW UK Customer Care, VW UK Passenger Cars and Motor Codes. I also e-mailed copies to Watchdog and WhatCar. I then rang VW Customer Care to log a case with them.

It was over a bank holiday weekend so ultimately didn't hear anything for a few days. I rang VW Customer Care and apparently the case was in hand and the person dealing would contact me. Moments later I got a call from VW Passenger Cars where I had sent one of the letters from a lady who stated she had received my letter and was investigating the issue for me and would liaise with the dealer.

Couple of days later I had a phone call from the dealer where he said "I don't know who you've spoken to at VW or what you've said but they've agreed to pay the rest of the costs!". Chap said he'd never know them to pay before but was very happy for me.

I was shocked at how quickly the issue got resolved in the end but I'm obviously over the moon. I honestly don't think I would have managed to get this result without first reading through this entire post and using all the information in it. Particular mention to JimC64 who seems to have contributed a lot and wants everyone to stand up for what's right at the end of the day. It gave me the mind set to attack from the off and I was ultimately prepared to take VW UK to a small claims court.

Car is booked in for Tues 6th May with a courtesy car provided as well.

I hope everyone else has as much luck as i did and if anyone wants any advice I'm more than happy to help if I can.

Simon

[JimC64]

Simon, kudos to you buddy for sticking it out, taking the bull by the horns and getting the victory in the end, I'm really really pleased for you mate.

I guess its testament to VW's attitude on this that we are all so pleased when one of us gets......"just what we were entitled to in the first place" through the original warranty.

Unfortunately there are too many who are laid back in nature, easy going, or just don't want the hassle & grief and let the opportunity slide by, settling for less than they deserve, but we're all made differently.

Thanks for the kind words on my involvement in this thread, much appreciated.

I have posted here many times both initially during my scenario and afterwards. I have tried so hard to make as many people aware as possible both through this forum and in daily life, chatting to various VW owners when I get the chance and making them aware too.
Its a way of paying it forward and I'm hotwired to this thread now to try and help as many as I can.

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if you find yourself doing the same...

Thanks for taking the time to come back and report on your experience Simon........It will help others I'm sure:beerchug:

[stuartdrennan]

Hi All

Great thread, very informative.

I've started the wheels in motion on this on my VERY nearly out of 12 year corrosion warranty Passat for BOTH wings.... Fingers crossed. :D

Stuart

[stuartdrennan]

Hi All

Great thread, very informative.

I've started the wheels in motion on this on my VERY nearly out of 12 year corrosion warranty Passat for BOTH wings.... Fingers crossed. :D

Stuart

Just to give a wee update on the response I got from the dealer. VW are only offering a 10 year good will cover, probably is my car had just turned 11, but the guy at the dealer seems very genuine and is going to try his best. Could take the warranty clerk up to 2 months to process the request though :confused:.

Stuart

[Irri_Tant]

Looked into getting mine done after last years offer of £500 towards costs. Phoned up 9 months later to be told would need assessing again. Made appoinment.

so the outcome?

Result. VW to pay 100% for replacement wings etc. Went to dealer at 10am. Phone call at 3pm to say all sorted in my favour. Just need to wait for parts to arrive then book into bodyshop.:approve:

[Mangesh]

Very informative and helpful thread. A question on how to approach when the car wing has signs of corrosion but just out of warranty (delivery date is April 2002). Anyone in similar situation?

[Irri_Tant]

L Just need to wait for parts to arrive then book into bodyshop.:approve:

New wings in bodyshop. Just waiting on call to have it booked in. :approve:

[vwcabriolet1971]

My daughter made a rusty wing warranty claim a few days ago for both front wings on her '05 reg Golf MK5 - No arguments , paint thickness measured and then booked to VW paint shop.

[JimC64]

Really great to see this thread taking hold and helping many to the desired outcome of a 100% free fix

Unfortunately many are also still being fobbed off but the details contained within this thread, seems to be
giving more & more the confidence to say no 50% or 70% isn't good enough, I don't want GOODWILL just
that you stand behind the warranty from when the car was supplied new!

[Irri_Tant]

New wings in bodyshop. Just waiting on call to have it booked in. :approve:

All done and dusted.

Cars back and looks ace with new wings.

Car was also valeted before returning to me and they delivered it to boot.:approve:

[john1946]

Here ya go... It refers to the Golf, but it is the only one I have seen.

Good luck.

I have a 2006 VW California with front panel corrosion, and aluminium roof corrosion. VW say it is out of warranty, i was wondering as a newbie to this forum is their a pdf doc. from vw about this problem? any help would be appreciated.

[john1946]

I have a 2006 VW California with front panel corrosion, and aluminium roof corrosion. VW say it is out of warranty, i was wondering as a newbie to this forum is their a pdf doc. from vw about this problem? any help would be appreciated.

[Doctor-X]

I stumbled across this thread a couple of weeks ago after finding my 2004 passat highline had developed rust on the front wing. I printed loads of stuff out from here to arm myself & contacted my local vw dealer. I was told I would need to contact a vw dealer with a bodyshop as they would need to take some paint readings & photograph the area. I phoned the nearest to me & spoke to a manager who deals with warranties. I was all ready to hit him with my findings but was taken aback when he actually explained to me what the problem was and if I brought the car down, as long as everything checked out, they would book my car in for repair. He looked my car up on the computer & said my car qualified for a 50% good will gesture from vw & they would match that & pay the other 50%. He explained that they were doing this in order to gain possible future business from people going back there.
Now I don't know what criteria my car met to qualify for the free repairs but I drove down 3 days later & spoke to the very nice man who took paint readings, photographed the car from several angles & filled in a job sheet, explaining that I would hear back from the bodyshop about booking my car in. Low and behold, a week later, my car is booked in for 1st April!!....They are even picking it up from my house!!!

I hope you'll understand if I don't publish the name of the dealer I went to until I have had all the work done & am happy with it, it's just I don't want any ill feeling from the dealer by having had several hundred people phoning him quoting me!!...I promise i'll let you know the dealer second week in April when my cars back. So basically MysteryMan, yes, it is true!!!

btw, it's amazing how many passats I now notice driving round with rusty wings... I just want to pull them over & explain!

Ok, so it's taken me longer to let you know where I had the work done than I promised, but I had a slight issue that's only just been rectified.
The dealer that replaced both my front wings & covered the cost 100% was Lightcliffe VW in Liverpool. The only issue I had was that they did a poor job of refitting the plastic trim at the bottom of the car & it's taken me 3 months to get back to Liverpool. Completely not their fault with the time, just that I have been too busy to get back there. They did eventually fit it correctly & i'm now very happy.

[seagulls01]

My. Passat with this problem is a 52 plate. Am I too late?

[Doctor-X]

My. Passat with this problem is a 52 plate. Am I too late?

Well I think it's a 12 year warranty which I think may give you until 1st September(ish) before it runs out. Although, when I took my car they looked it up to see if it qualified. Dont know what criteria it needed to meet. You may just have to ring & ask

[JimC64]

It is a 12 year warranty, so you may still qualify, check it out asap!!

All the info you need is posted within this thread!

Good luck

[Jon W]

Hi
Just joined VW Forum and was interested to read the posts about corrosion to front wings of various VW models.

My 2004 Passat Estate is pretty much immaculate apart from the rust coming through around both front wheel arches.

Do you have a copy of VW's internal bulletin or a link to it that I could use to assist the Warranty claim that I intend to make?

Thanks,

J

[JimC64]

Page 4 if I remember correctly post#133 or something

Read the whole thread if you want all the info available.

Good luck

[knoxman]

There is some excellent information in this thread on how to get VW to meet the full costs of replacing the front wings if corrosion is found. Many thanks to all those who have contributed - I found it extremely helpful. I discovered recently that my 2005 Passat Estate Highline TDI 130 bhp had developed the corrosion on both front wings, and so it was with some trepidation that I visited my local VW main dealer today to raise the issue with them. I had already been to the dealer's Bodyshop to discuss it with them, and they advised me to discuss it with the Warranty Manager at the dealership - which I did today.


The Warranty Manager could not have been more helpful. He looked at both wings, took some photos, and then told me that VW would pay for the repair or replacement (most likely replacement). He explained that he had authority to make this decision as it been delegated down to him by VW UK. All he had to do was submit a report to VW with full details of the claim. The dealership would pay for the work, and then he would submit the bill to VW to reclaim the costs.


He took the following details about my car: the registration number, the chassis number, and the mileage. He also asked when I purchased the vehicle and from whom, and where I had been having the car serviced, but this did not seem to have influenced his decision. So I now wait for him to call back with some dates when the Bodyshop can carry out the work (which is likely to be in about 3 weeks time).


If it is any help to others, this is the situation regarding my Passat Estate:


a. I purchased it in 2006 from a VW main dealer when it was just under one year's old.
b. It has 81k miles on the clock.
c. I had it regularly serviced at a main dealer until 2012 when I moved to south west Wiltshire. I now get it serviced at a local independent VW/Audi specialist garage (because the latter is more convenient (and probably cheaper) than having to drive to my nearest VW main dealer).
d. I was cool, calm and polite in my dealings with the Warranty Manager.


I will put updates on this thread as they happen… and am keeping my fingers and toes crossed for now…!

[djmx5]

Knoxman…….similar situation vehicle wise to mine age wise, though my car has never been near VW garage for repairs/servicing.

I had no problem with VW paying for the replacement of both wings and courtesy car for the duration last November. Great service.

D

[knoxman]

Received a telephone call from the Warranty Manager to tell me that my car has been booked into the body shop for 4th August. It wil be required for the whole week. Things are looking very promising now uncrossing my toes....).

[soundout]

Reporting another success story on this matter. I bought a 2004 Passat estate a month ago, immaculate apart from the rustywings issue. It was a 3 owner car, private purchase, FSH but non-main-dealer. I emailed my local VW dealer, Sytners in Huddersfield, took it in for assessment, waited 2 weeks with no reply, jogged their memory this morning and got an immediate 100% offer from VW as a goodwill issue. I think the reason it can't be classified as a warranty matter is because the car is 10 years old now. A further 12years paint warranty would not really be justifiable!
Here is the email I sent which resulted in the offer:

Dear Sirs


I am a lifelong VW fan and in my time, I have owned 4 Golfs, 3 Passats, an Audi 80, an air-cooled Transporter and Beetle, and 2 LT vans.


About 10 days ago I bought privately a B5 Passat with FSH (not all main dealer). Reg no MF04 WJN. I noticed some rust on one of the front wings and the beginning of some bubbling on the other, but the car was in great condition apart from that, so I took the plunge.


I've been a member of the VW/Audi Forum on the internet for some time so I looked to see how many others had the rusty wing issue. I was disappointed to read that this is a common problem usually caused by accumulated debris caught in the soundproofing foam. I never had that issue on my many other VWs. Anyway, many owners reported good treatment under warranty from their local VW dealers, once the problem was reported. I have also seen the internal VW bulletin to dealers concerning the issue.


In the case of my own car, it was last at a VW dealership in September 2012 for a cambelt change. The visual check record shows no bodywork faults at that stage.


So I'm duly reporting that I have what appears to be this same problem. I understand that you have a procedure which must be gone through to determine the cause of the rusting and I am of course keen to set the ball rolling with my car. I am not in a hurry to get the job done but obviously want to register the problem with you. I will be pleased to bring in the car for inspection at a time to suit. I am working away from home a lot this month but I am sure we can fix a time.


Looking forward to hearing from you, preferably by email but phone is OK too.

there you have it forum folks - feel free to use the wording I have used - and many thanks to the forum for helping so many of us out on this issue.