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TheMatador
21-07-2010, 01:08 PM
Anyone got any thoughts on the value of the swirl flaps in the V6 and V8 tdi engines?

Official documentation states "They enable the airflow to be adjusted to suit engine speed and load. Not only additional power and torque result, but also lower fuel consumption and emissions."

They seem very problematic though and expensive to fix (over 2000 to replace both sides on the V6). There's a lot on the BMW forums about completely removing them on the 2.0d and 3.0d engines with, arguably, little or no effect on performance. - see attached technical docs for how they work.

They are basically on-off valves on one of the two inlet runners on each cylinder. Possible scenarios might be:

1. Mechanism wears or gets a bit impaired e.g. linkage is worn giving "lower limit" error - valves still work though - no noticeable effect
2. Motor is faulty - valves don't operate - loss of power above 1250 rpm because spiral runner is blocked
3. Valves break off and knacker the cylinders, EGR valve and turbo

Questions in my mind are:
1. Why does problem 1 warrant the engine management light coming on?
2. Are they worth the money? Any efficiency savings are wiped out by a 2000 bill after 80k for six bits of plastic and two motors
2b. Ditto for problem 3 - a very big bill again!
3. Why do you have to change the whole thing at once - they're only on/off valves
4. Is there any way to put an inhibit on the lower limit error or change the tolerance to stop the light coming on?

daveyboy467
23-07-2010, 09:29 PM
i've seen on a bmw forum the same complaints,

i thinks its just manufactures doing what they can for the green factor maybe.

and in the bmw forum they have a solution to remove them wich most handy diy'ers can do.

once again the bmw forum complain about the probbability of failure and possible damage it can cause if your unlucky.

wjam
18-09-2011, 05:51 PM
Just spotted this thread.

Problem numbver 1 causes a MIL because the motor is disabled if it sees any discrepancy of I believe > 2% from expected position... The motor is spring loaded to keep the flaps open in the event of failure at ECU side.

See the VW thread here for a great fix! http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?123508-V6-TDI-Swirl-Control

A little bit of work but could be well worth it

wjam

wjam
18-09-2011, 05:53 PM
Oh.. and to answer the question... NO they are not worth it.

Disconnect the motors and go for a long drive. I bet you see no difference worthy of their Audi cost.

If I can find a way to take them off without a MIL I'll do it.

wjam

AxeMurderer
19-09-2011, 11:04 AM
Mine have been broken for a while now. I don't see any decrease in fuel consumption on long motorway journeys. I suspect that fuel consumption is a little worse on short journeys though. I certainly don't see 2000 worth of consequences!

gianton
19-09-2011, 12:56 PM
How do you tell if they are broken?

wjam
19-09-2011, 01:04 PM
The engine light comes on. (MIL) But you need to get a fault diagnosis to absolutely confirm the issue.

As a quick check you can pull of the engine cover and watch the motors after starting.

They reference back and forth then jump to closed position for idle. Blip the throttle and you'll see them shift to open then close again as revs return to idle

Bear in mind default position is open (so that the car runs if they fail)... Also left side is opposite direction to right side. Left side seems to fail most and I'd like to bet that's due to the extra heat from turbo right beside the plastic rod end bearings

cheers

wjam

gianton
19-09-2011, 01:07 PM
Thanks for the heads up mate.

wjam
19-09-2011, 02:28 PM
No probs... By the way.. 9.9 ltr / 100km? Are you driving in town a lot (like 80-% plus)? I'm getting about 8 to 8.5 ltr /100 mixed 60% motorway and 40 percent A road & mountains.

dropping towards 8 now after remap... which i can highly recommend (superchips)

WJAM

gianton
19-09-2011, 02:36 PM
Diesel quality in Greece is the reason. I get at least 15% more mileage when I travel in Germany or other EU countries.

wjam
19-09-2011, 02:40 PM
Ah I see... Look out for HPFP inlet metering valve sticking. Leads to car stalling at idle.. and fuel pressure warnings. Unfortunately I haven't managed to source the valve on it's own yet so that required the whole pump to fix it. I think frequent diesel filter changes and diesel treatment will help reduce the likelihood of this failure.

gianton
19-09-2011, 03:09 PM
And the consumption in my sig is the real thing showing all fill ups from day 1 I got my car four years ago.
If yours is from the trip computer then it's +20% more the actual one. That's what I get anyway... when the trip computer shows 8 lit/100km then the real one after a fill up is 9.6 lit/100km.

wjam
19-09-2011, 03:12 PM
I check trip comp and actual.. It's almost perfect.. Like maybe 0.1 out.. That's about the only perfect thing on it... Although the motor is sweet now :-) fast as bejeezus. My current running total from Day 1 is 8.3 actual... and that included 4 months with an air duct full of leaves (it was doing 10 ltr/100 at that point) which Audi totally failed to spot during their exceptional full service history :-|

gianton
19-09-2011, 04:13 PM
My trip computer is very optimistic then! I don't do that much motorway driving really, it's like 60/40 town/motorway. Usually on a long run with a tank I get about 900-950kms, that's driving in EU with the good stuff! LOL

TheMatador
19-09-2011, 07:17 PM
dropping towards 8 now after remap... which i can highly recommend (superchips)
WJAM
Yeah - I looked at that but insurance went bananas! Plus 200quid a year and excess up to 800. Wiped out the fuel saving. If I could find somewhere sensible I'd love it...

mhobson
17-11-2011, 03:30 PM
In connection with my posts on the other swirl flap page, my 3.0 tdi manual Allroad computer shows fuel consumption of 7.2 l/100k to 8.3 l/100k but checking it manually full tank to full tank it has never done better than 9.1 l/100k and as high as 9.4 l/100k, and that is driving normally below 100kmh mostly country with occasional town driving. I wonder what difference there would be if I paid 1905 Euros to Audi Poitiers to change the manifolds and if there was a saving, how many years I would have to drive it to pay off that cost?

Michael

wjam
17-11-2011, 05:01 PM
You'd be driving for years to regain the cost.

I definitely get better than that mileage wise. About 8lt/100 average but I do spend 70% on autoroutes. Also superchips helped ;-) in every way.

I have just bought some ball end joints from RS and will fit them next week to my dodgy swirl flap motor. I am willing to put a small wager that it never throw a code again. After I get the linkage length right. Total cost.. 15 euros - but you need to do a bit of drilling and get the 5mm tap set out . I bought a used inlet flap manifold for 50 euros to play with. I can confirm there is nothing in there to cause a MIL. Only the linkage, the motor, or if the flaps did not make full movement due to coking,,, which is much cheaper to clean than replace. There are absolutely no sensors of any kind in there to tell the electronics whats going on. It all happens at the motor end or the linkage is worn.

I have made a temp fix with copper tape to take up the slack in the upper joint, but it still occasionally throws a MIL. about once a month. I can see from VCDS that i'm right on the edge of tolerance, so that's not a surprise.

cheers

WJAM

wjam
17-11-2011, 05:06 PM
by the way.. If there is no perceptible play in the linkage then it might be bent. That will give a similar problem because now the length is incorrect.

There are some hints on VCDS .. Depending on the duty cycle at the fault code gives an indication of the failure.. mechanical; electrical or whatever.

Oh and if you are interested the BMW drivers actually remove the flaps and throw them in the nearest poubelle :-) Althouhg to be fair their's were faliing off in the engine.. YIKES!

WJAM

TheMatador
17-11-2011, 05:21 PM
Many many years! Its not worth it. The thing that drove me to get the work done was the MIL light - I just couldn't live with the thing on the whole time. Best thing would be to find someone who can reset the range limits on the VDO positioner for you...

mhobson
17-11-2011, 07:36 PM
There is no play in the linkage and the shafts are definitely not bent, the cranks appear to travel their full range and there appears to be noticeable play in the bearings of the shafts that come out of the manifolds. I asked my local VW garage if they could reset the motor ranges but they said their equipment could not do it. Having the MIL light on gives me the willies but the other thing is, that if a different fault were to arrive which would have lit the MIL, I wouldn't know about it because it was on already.

mhobson
18-12-2011, 06:35 PM
Subsequent to my earlier posts, in the end I was fed up looking at the warning light and I gave in and took the car to Audi Poitiers. They charged me 2150 Euros (including the 140 Euros for the diagnostic)

On the first full tank to full tank of diesel driving on similar roads at a similar speed (steady and up to 100 kmh max), (I know this is not exactly scientific, I should have driven on exactly the same roads at the same speeds) but filling on the same fuel pump and letting all the bubbles stop, I achieved 8.75 litres/100 km (32.2 mpg), the computer stated optimistically again 8.2 Litres/100 km and at the current cost of fuel I calculate that I will need to drive for another 46,000 km or 28520 miles to break even. IS IT WORTH IT? I WILL LET YOU BE THE JUDGES!!!

I have had Audi cars since my first Audi 1972 100 GL which I bought in 1979 but I think that there are questions about the technology they are employing these days.

The best ever Audi in my opinion was the late 1990s Audi A6 2.5 tdi 140 bhp AEL 6 speed manual estate, adequate power and space but phenomenal economy (I have done 68.7 mpg full tank to full tank). When I came to live here in France that car regularly did better than 48 mpg driving in a similar manner to my Allroad, OK it is 4wd and more powerful, but with common rail injection and modern electronics the newer car should do much better than it does and without the owners having to pay through the nose for their design blunders.

My Mercedes Sprinter Van is more fuel efficient, pulling more weight and pushing more air and I think it is likely my next car will be Mercedes, I feel that Audi have let me down.

Michael

havers24
08-02-2012, 12:48 PM
Hi wjam,

Hoping you can offer some advice please. I have a 2007 A8 3.0 TDI with 50k Miles on and never given me any problems. Recently started displaying the ECU warning intermittently and I got my Audi Dealer to scan the fault. It's the manifold intake flaps on Bank 2 which they say needs replacing and will cost €900. They ran the scan yesterday and the warning light is always on now :( but the car is running perfectly with no noticeable performance issues
My questions are: 1.) is it safe to ignore this warning and avoid €900 worth of a hit at the Dealership and
2.) By doing this do I run the risk of the flaps totalling the engine if they get sucked in as per the case with some BMW's?
I'm not in the least bit technical i'm afraid so just wanted to try and get your advice if poss..

Thanks
Havers

TheMatador
08-02-2012, 01:18 PM
Hi Havers, welcome to the forum. You can ignore this warning and the car will be fine. The flaps default to a fail-open position when the positioner throws the error. However, apart from being annoying, the problem with the MIL light being on all the time though is that you will never know if/when a second error happens that could be more serious.

I got both sides changed at the same time by a local specialist for 1300 - and even that was paying too much. It took about 3 hrs. Or as you've seen wjam has posted an even cheaper fix:)

wjam
08-02-2012, 01:19 PM
Hi Havers,

There is no noticeable difference to the performance of the car and seeing as BMW owners remove them I doubt you will ever see any side effects. In my opinion the addition of these flaps is to attain slightly better combustion at lower revs in order to put a spec on their marketing blurb and pass a better EU spec test. But if the replacement costs you 900 euro every 4 or 5 years then no economy was made. Some audi dealers suggest both should be done together!!!

The only thing I don't like is having 1 bank working and 1 not.. Of course you could just disconnect the other bank but that will ad to the list of codes showing at a scan.

I am so waiting for someone to design a little plug in emulator so that the car thinks it has perfectly working flaps (but in fact they are not connected.)

cheers

WJAM

mhobson
08-02-2012, 01:22 PM
Hello Havers24,

My experience is that you will not experience any problems with driving and any deterioration in fuel consumption will be negligible. I think that the BMW problem of the flaps dropping into the engine and totalling the unit does not happen with Audis. The reason I had both banks repaired on my Allroad (2200 Euros) was that while the MIL was illuminated if another engine fault occurred I would not have been warned. I suspect also that if one bank has failed it may not be long until the other bank follows suit.

Regards,

Michael

wjam
08-02-2012, 01:24 PM
Hi Matador,

The cheaper fix requires some extra development.. But yes it does work... Pretty hard to adjust, and I was getting a little flexing of the plastics remaining on the motor and at the flap end of the manifold. I'm trying to get another working motor for low money in order to try a better rod end linkage... Mainly because I want to make it look standard again in the unlikely event I have to leave it into an Audi dealer for something.

Right now I'm using copper foil as a means to take up any slack. Works well for about 6 months, then needs re-done (copper wears away). But cost is about 1 euro per 5 year :-)

WJAM

TheMatador
09-02-2012, 09:35 AM
Right now I'm using copper foil as a means to take up any slack. Works well for about 6 months, then needs re-done (copper wears away). But cost is about 1 euro per 5 year :-)
WJAM

That's more like it!

st4
09-02-2012, 09:40 AM
I've seen this issue on my Mercedes. I'm researching the Audi a6 as a potential replacement. This thread caught my eye. The route cause of flaps jamming is EGR. If there is a way to map out the EGR function and blank the EGR valve then you cure the problem. The prices being paid are broadly equivalent with Mercedes ones. I know on BMWs conversion kits are available that removes the flap mechanism from the manifold. On my 80k miles Mercedes in on a second manifold


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=55.882291,-4.324356

wjam
09-02-2012, 11:25 AM
Hi,

In fact on Audi the cause is just plain wear. The linkage is a short square section aluminium rod with 2 plastic rod ends that snap onto the lugs. Bank 2 is the one beside the turbo and gets hotter than bank 1... I suspect that the extra heat causes it to wear out befor bank 1 although bank 1 is also upside down relative to bank 2 so that may also be significant regarding the amount of effort to move it.

In any case the use of plastic rod ends on a parts that is moving every time you press the throttle is simply profiteering to me.. They knew it would fail and they also knew it was of no benefit in the real world.

But yes EGR could be contributory if it gunks up the inlets and causes additional strain/wear/or simply throwing a code due to the flaps not making the end point of travel.

I'd like to know how BMW's de-flapped don't give any errors. Perhaps they don't use flap physical limits to define the end points?? I'm about to google Merc - how sad is my life!

cheers
WJAM

st4
09-02-2012, 12:05 PM
A deflapped BMW shouldn't and a modification to the ECU should solve that one. I've had a linkage fail on the manifold in the Mercedes although it's rarer than on here. The turbo on the merc sits within the cylinder bank at the back of the engine but the motor that operates the linkages sits below the turbo and that leaks oil rendering the motor in operable

wjam
09-02-2012, 12:15 PM
I asked my chip tuner about moding ECU to ignore swirl flaps but he said he didn't know how to do that.. Or couldn't be 4rsed

I should have my Mk 2 rod ends tomorrow. i'll post a pic of my planned mod

WJAM

SuperCharger28
18-02-2012, 01:35 AM
Well I thought I would chip in.

I got my bank 2 replaced whilst having my car serviced at the dealer.

The dealer never serviced my car correctly (water was below minimum when i got it back)

I checked my car via VCDS after they had "Done" the work and found out they replaced the motor and not the entire bank flap + assembly that they quoted me 470 for.

Overall I paid them almost 800 for an hour or two's worth of work. To add to the embarrassment I took it to an indie and he reckoned they disabled the MIL light to keep me happy.

Report with trading standards against my local audi dealership has been filed, letter has been sent to my credit card company including evidence in the hope to get my money back. If that fails I shall be taking it to a small claims

It's disgusting that we should even have to deal with these swirl flaps, let alone crooks running some of the dealers

wjam
18-02-2012, 09:31 AM
Hi Supercharger28,

Well why am I not surprised.. I bought my car with 4.5 years of "full service history", all performed at the same dealership and guess what.. the air box and especially the duct from the front to the air box was full of every imaginable piece of debris. I don't mean some loose stuff.. I mean 5 to 6 inches of packed solid. Leaves, insects, sand, twigs etc.

When I confronted Audi with this (and my failing high pressure pump), they totally refused to take any responsibility for the state of the car, saying they followed procedures.

I subsequently found out form an indie that although they charge 1200 for the new high pressure pumps they often changed only the metering valve (which is in fact the part that normally fails).. Sounds familiar.

I bought my pump from the exporter for a vastly reduced price and got the indie to install it.

SO when i next go to purchase a used car (esp if I look at an Audi, but I suspect relevant to many) I will take my VCDS with me and promptly open the airbox in front of the dealer.

In fact I am quite certain this dealer (huge flashy buildings with 42" flat screen welcome signs in the mechanics bay!!) will frog march me out the door. But I'll enjoy it.

To summarize.. Audi franchise service is not worth the paper it's written on in my experience. I wholly do not recommend them to anyone.

cheers

wjam

TheMatador
20-02-2012, 10:01 AM
The dealer never serviced my car correctly (water was below minimum when i got it back)

I checked my car via VCDS after they had "Done" the work and found out they replaced the motor and not the entire bank flap + assembly that they quoted me 470 for.

Overall I paid them almost 800 for an hour or two's worth of work. To add to the embarrassment I took it to an indie and he reckoned they disabled the MIL light to keep me happy.


That is diabolical! What dealership did you take it to? There are some good ones (Crasher & A8) but service like that gives the brand a bad name. There are some very clever people who design and build these cars but its obviously wasted on the halfwit service technicians that you've encountered.

wjam
25-02-2012, 10:31 AM
Right then.. That little plan to build a super linkage has been temporarily scrapped..

I bought new motor off a car parts dealer on ebay.de (As a means to return it to "stock spec") and behold it arrives with a new linkage attached to the new motor.

Stuck it on the car... Started... it did a very strange initialization (not the normal - did about 6 steps slowly to the fully open position) then started working normally.

Put VCDS on and monitored requested duty was 80% and actual was 80.9% and rock steady.. Blipped throttle and it follows really close to requested value without much lag. So I cleared the errors.. So far so good 4 days later.

Now on bank 1 which is 170k kms old, it is also well within the magic 2% error spec, but it flickers a round say 80.5 then 81.1 then back to 80.5.. I suspect that's because of free play..

So I seem to be a little lucky in that I have negligible free play on the lower ball end at the manifold of the replacement.. But if only I could find someone to figure out how to change the error spec.. make it 5 or 10% and the problem will never occur (unless the linkage pops off). Someone on here must know someone who is doing chip tuning?? They have the power to fix this, they just need to do a little investigation in to the addressing. Can it be worked out from VCDS? We know the management blocks 36 bank 1 & 37 for bank 2.. surely they correspond to something in the SW maps??

Anyway.. the cost of this new motor (And I really do believe it's 100% new. Even had the yellow plastic plug cover attached)??? 120 of your finest euros. RESULT!

wjam

PS I will still build the super linkage.

PPS VDO, who make the motor, refused to sell me one (despite a page on their website claiming that they do sell them) saying they are complex systems and not suitable for the public to install and only available to OEM HAHAHA

TheMatador
27-02-2012, 09:48 AM
Re: Increasing the error spec
I looked into this when a while ago - from what I can tell the VDO positioner configuration and range checking is not done by the cars management system so isn't accessible via VCDS. Its done in the VDO positioner itself. The interface between the positioner and the engine management seems to be a 4-20ma signal and a status. The positioner motor works out how to convert the 4-20ma into a % movement. It does a range check when you first turn on the ignition and if there are any issues it fails open and sends a fault code to the engine management - hence the MIL light comes on.

To calibrate the VDO you need this tool:
http://vw.snapon.com/specialtoolsdetail.aspx?itemid=18510013
and possibly also this one:
http://vw.snapon.com/specialtoolsdetail.aspx?itemid=24300013

I could only find them available in the US. But if a local specialist can replace the turbo then they should have this tool so may also be able to sort the swirl flaps...

wjam
27-02-2012, 11:28 PM
Hi TheMatador,

I knew the range setting mA but wasn't aware it was within the VDO motor.. I assumed the ECU checked it.. That would explain a lot. But yes, it's effectively the same actuator as the Turbo variable vane motor so if you can set that up it should be do-able.

I'll take a look at these devices and ask my local independent if he knows about these.

cheers

wjam

TheMatador
19-02-2013, 09:34 AM
Fantastic - at last! That's exactly what we've been waiting for:)

Guest 2
19-02-2013, 09:37 AM
There's also a thread on here showing how to replace them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

Guest 2
19-02-2013, 09:38 AM
Here we go - VW AUDI Forum - VWAF (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=137123)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

gupsterg
19-02-2013, 11:19 AM
Fantastic - at last! That's exactly what we've been waiting for:)

Just to cross link threads here another one on the links... Link:- Audi V6 TDi 2.7 & 3.0 Inlet Manifold, Swirl Flap Repair Kit. (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?140390-Audi-V6-TDi-2-7-amp-3-0-Inlet-Manifold-Swirl-Flap-Repair-Kit)

kristofferS
19-02-2013, 03:06 PM
BTW, I've changed both mine myself (I'm not actually a mechanic). Took about 5-6 hours.
Bought them from ebay.de - the new revision from 2010. Payed about 350 for both.

Changed them and engine light gone, and about 15% better mileage. Other than this I cant tell a difference. :o

Nigma
08-04-2013, 05:25 PM
BTW, I've changed both mine myself (I'm not actually a mechanic). Took about 5-6 hours.
Bought them from ebay.de - the new revision from 2010. Payed about 350€ for both.

Changed them and engine light gone, and about 15% better mileage. Other than this I cant tell a difference. :o

I've just purchased two of these for mine.

5-6 hours... :1zhelp: ??? Why did it take so long ?

Thanks
Nigma

kristofferS
08-04-2013, 09:12 PM
hehe. As I said, I'm not a mechanic :)
And also, that was the total time, including making the kids not fight, eat a bit and also google a bit :)
And, not to forget - to try to locate the one screw I lost in the engine... (of course - of of the last one to fasten the last swirl flaps... That probably took half an hour +)

But in my engine it was pretty tight there - so it was not easy to get them out.
I decided to get them out without taking out the fuellines.

Nigma
08-04-2013, 10:01 PM
I think I miss read your post. Didn't realise you changed the whole lot .. Thought you just changed the linkage.... Now it makes more sense.

SRT88
12-03-2014, 12:24 PM
Hello fellow members. If you have problems with swirl flaps on 2.7TDI and 3.0TDI please visit www.airshox.eu or just contact me. We have remanufactured the whole shaft + bearings using excessively strong and durable materials.
Regards
Stanislav Tsonchev
AirShox EU Team

nozzil
26-03-2014, 09:14 PM
Hi all,
Just to add to SRT88's post above, I recently had the warning light come on my A6 2.7TDI that was diagnosed by my local garage as a problem with Bank 2 manifold. They reset the warning and it was fine for a couple of days before the warning came on again. As it's my wife's car I wanted to get the issue sorted but as it was going to cost upwards of 450 just for the parts from Audi I looked around for alternatives. I found the Airshox solution via another thread here and despite some trepidation at ordering from Bulgaria I went ahead and ordered a complete manifold. Communication with Stanislav was outstanding, answering all my questions before ordering and after. The manifold casing and servo motor are refurbished items, with the swirl flaps themselves and bushes being newly manufactured, also included was a new OEM connecting rod kit and the necessary gasket. All arrived in around 4 days via recorded delivery, exactly as described. I then packed my old manifold and returned to Bulgaria. I posted direct, but there is a UK return address that i could have used (my bad as I forgot to check!!) and would have saved me a few quid...total cost was around 160 (not including my return postage) so considerably cheaper than the, albeit new, Audi option! The manifold is also guaranteed for the ownership of the vehicle. I'm delighted with the service from Airshox and when the other manifold goes, I'll be straight back again. Happy to give more details by PM if required.

Regards

Phil

mhobson
27-03-2014, 09:16 AM
Hello,

I had to have the inlet manifolds changed on my A6 30.tdi Allroad, just before these remanufactured units became readily available and it cost me 2200 Euros at Audi Poitiers, and that did not include the motors. When my wife's A4 3.0 tdi cabriolet had the same fault this year, I bought a pair of remanufactured inlets including the motors from autosmotorcraft in Germany, but through ebay uk. They arrived very quickly and to be honest they looked as though they could have been brand new, the old units were collected very quickly free of charge and the deposit was repaid without delay, excellent service and communication throughout. I had the manifolds fitted by a local VW garage and the total cost to me was just under 800 euros, a significant saving. I would thoroughly recommend this supplier.

Regards,

Michael

MarkTM
26-07-2015, 11:39 AM
I have been driving for 2yrs and 24k miles with both sides reporting swirl flap issues, namely:

012597 - Intake Manifold Runner Control
P3135 - 001 - Lower Stop not Reached
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100001
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 254
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 170273 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2014.11.02
Time: 12:34:00


Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Torque: 0.0 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Voltage: 12.16 V
Duty Cycle: 88.8 %
Duty Cycle: 88.8 %
Duty Cycle: 20.5 %


004120 - Intake Manifold Runner (Bank 2)
P1018 - 001 - Lower limit not reached
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100001
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 254
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 170273 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2014.11.02
Time: 12:34:00


Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Torque: 0.0 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Voltage: 12.16 V
Duty Cycle: 88.8 %
Duty Cycle: 88.8 %
Duty Cycle: 20.5 %

I have seen absolutely no degradation in fuel economy, in fact I've seen a 1015 fuel range on my DIS in June, and have actually driven 920 miles on a single tank (50+MPG)

Not a priority for me and the marker pen covering the EML (along with weekly VCDS scans to ensure there's nowt else wrong).

Since this thread started the repair kit from Audi for the arms came out in Dec 2012 and also several ebay sellers (and forum sponsor) are doing both sides inc. actuators for a very reasonable exchange price (sub 300).

When I eventually get around to doing mine next year I am defo going to be blanking off my EGR so that the crud doesn't clog things up again.

From my perspective I don't actually know what purpose the flaps serve as my cars plenty economical and certainly doesn't lack power :)

wjam
26-07-2015, 03:50 PM
I'd guess they are purely for emission regulations. They certainly do not improve the car performance. I'd love to find someone who can re-program the ECU parameters. If the error limit was 10% the problem would be unlikely to occur in the car lifetime.

cheers

wjam

mhobson
26-07-2015, 04:56 PM
After I had the inlet manifolds changed on both cars there was no noticeable difference in fuel consumption, however, as I understand it in the UK, if your orange MIL engine warning light is illuminated that is an MOT fail. As well as that, my concern was that with the MIL already illuminated, should another issue arise I would be unaware that the new problem was there which could have caused the engine long term damage. The reason for a lot of these seemingly petty engine modifications is to shave fractions off the CO2 emissions so that the car can be in as low bracket as possible so the tax implications for those fortunate enough to have company cars supplied, will choose one car over another, leaving the ensuing issues for people like me who buy the cars secondhand.

MarkTM
26-07-2015, 07:25 PM
as I understand it in the UK, if your orange MIL engine warning light is illuminated that is an MOT fail.

Not true!

Also as I scan mine weekly I'd be spotting any additional issues before they become serious.

I believe that my emissions test in June resulted in less than half that permissible, and only 0.1 higher than when the flaps worked :)

mhobson
26-07-2015, 09:06 PM
Not true!

Also as I scan mine weekly I'd be spotting any additional issues before they become serious.

I believe that my emissions test in June resulted in less than half that permissible, and only 0.1 higher than when the flaps worked :)

I was told that from either this or last year the MIL was being included in the MOT, maybe I was advised wrongly, however I very much doubt that the majority of VAG owners will be scanning their cars on a weekly basis, the light is there for a good reason and may disclose a fault which may have costly consequences to the average driver.

ats4603
30-11-2015, 08:26 PM
I got an "Advisory" for having the MIL light on at the last MoT on my Touareg, but it still passed...

MarkTM
30-11-2015, 08:51 PM
I got an "Advisory" for having the MIL light on at the last MoT on my Touareg, but it still passed...

It perhaps might help if you shared when this was? :)

ats4603
30-11-2015, 09:07 PM
Shortly before 20 September 2015...

rhory
22-01-2016, 07:26 PM
Get the Carista app on your smart phone plus the plug in bluetooth obdii reader,I leave mine plugged in all the time. You can kill the EML whenever you like and scan/customise your Audi's electrics to your hearts content erasing codes also you can email the scans to yourself and print them out, never be ripped of by the ******** again who quoted 300 plus to change a 2.7tdi le mans battery and code it. Bought the battery for 80 and changed it live saved myself 220+ no coding and Geronimo good as new !

http://tinyurl.com/CARISTA-OBDII

dtoru
15-05-2016, 03:44 PM
can the flap motors not be mapped out using winols to stop eml light coming on the find away to physically remove them?

SRT88
16-05-2016, 09:17 PM
can the flap motors not be mapped out using winols to stop eml light coming on the find away to physically remove them?
VAG decided they are worth, so they have put it in almost every engine they have manufactured lately.
Are you going to feel the difference if you map them out? Well this is a more difficult question to answer. For sure your bottom/lower end will be more sluggish - if you normally start to feel the torque kicking in at as low as 1950-2050rpm, after mapping them out you will shift the graph ~200rpm to the right. There will be no difference at full throttle/kick down because the native operation of the swirl flaps suggest that they are progressively opened up until 2700rpm. Above that point there is a full boost in the manifold, therefore they are fully open.

Not_Anumber
03-06-2016, 09:54 AM
Can the swirl flaps be mapped out ? I am about to have a remap done so it would be useful to know if this can be done as part of that.

SRT88
03-06-2016, 10:54 AM
Can the swirl flaps be mapped out ? I am about to have a remap done so it would be useful to know if this can be done as part of that.
The fault code could be mapped out, however the swirl flaps will be fully opened all the time (emergency mode/full throttle mode). If they are stuck closed or have too much play in the shaft/bushings, rev hunt will be an intermittent problem.
Regards

Not_Anumber
09-06-2016, 02:54 PM
Working from comments on this and other forums I took the plunge the other day and had the swirl flaps/ runners disconnected and mapped out on mine as preventative maintenance. The choice was a no brainer as I was having a remap and EGR delete anyway and the provider (Black Code) agreed to map out the swirl flaps inside the same price. I had an MOT done directly after the remapping to check the emissions are still safely within limits.

StuBeeDoo
05-09-2016, 08:28 AM
I've just been reading through a few swirl flap threads here, mainly to find-out if they can be removed completely.

FWIW, my BMW 330d had the flaps removed by a previous owner and is de-catted and de-EGR'd. A few weeks ago, at 143k mls, it sailed through the MOT with all the emissions at the very lowest end of the parameters. Over nearly 40k mls, the car has averaged 40.7mpg. :) Also, as a bonus, since the EGR removal the oil stays clean for several thousand miles.

Not_Anumber
05-09-2016, 09:35 AM
They aren't needed for the MOT and just cause expense when they go wrong. Simply removing them will bring up the engine fault light + codes so they have to be mapped out (same as the EGR, which i had done at the same time). The electrical connection to the flap motors can then be disconnected and tied up out of the way. My fuel economy improved significantly and the car is better to drive. If anyone in the future wants to reconnect them then they are are all still there but just unused

Radek
07-09-2016, 09:23 AM
Hi all i had same issue with the intake manifold swirl flaps. I have done my resarch and found the website with repair kits(new swirl flaps etc) the also include repair manual. Im not a mechanic but i have complete the job replacing flaps on both Banks in 5 hours.
IF somone is interested they call
manifoldkitsuk.co.uk
Complete repair kit cost me 125 with new gaskets so happy days :)

Radek
07-09-2016, 09:27 AM
Sorry they call manifoldskitsuk.co.uk

rowdy-999
07-09-2016, 09:50 AM
Working from comments on this and other forums I took the plunge the other day and had the swirl flaps/ runners disconnected and mapped out on mine as preventative maintenance. The choice was a no brainer as I was having a remap and EGR delete anyway and the provider (Black Code) agreed to map out the swirl flaps inside the same price. I had an MOT done directly after the remapping to check the emissions are still safely within limits.


Did you physically remove the flaps, or just leave them in situ?

Not_Anumber
07-09-2016, 10:15 AM
I left them in situ as their default position when powered down is open. With these and the EGR mapped out my fuel economy has improved. Whilst i used to average around 43 mpg for my regular motorway commute this has improved to 50.

rowdy-999
07-09-2016, 01:24 PM
I left them in situ as their default position when powered down is open. With these and the EGR mapped out my fuel economy has improved. Whilst i used to average around 43 mpg for my regular motorway commute this has improved to 50.


I was just pondering if even in the open position they cause a restriction in air flow?

Not_Anumber
07-09-2016, 01:48 PM
Id say no more that them being in the open position during normal running as Im presuming they were designed not to be noticeably restrictive. It might be worth someone experimenting to see if physical removal of the flaps might provide a marginal improvement, though this might be too small to measure.

viperjng
08-09-2016, 04:13 AM
Hi,

I had mine mapped out by my tuner as I kept getting the annoying check light. Run approx 10,000kms after that and found no issues with the car after that.

Jignesh

Radek
08-09-2016, 12:38 PM
The swirl flaps in the manifold are designed to create a specified amount of air turbulence and by opening and closing which improve fuel mixture. The swirl flaps are located insight the manifold and they might be a problem later on fail and be ingested into the engine. So by leaving them not repaired you taking own risk.

Bobby singh
09-01-2017, 12:14 AM
I can't there are 8 pages on this topic.
Basically yes you can map them out. There is no difference in MPG or performance - In fact its improved from what I've seen in some cases.

I've removed them from many cars now and all run perfectly fine.

Cheers

simon w-t
23-02-2017, 08:21 PM
Can you just remove them then and just map them out ? Do you need any blanking kit or anything?

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Bobby singh
24-02-2017, 11:56 AM
Can you just remove them then and just map them out ? Do you need any blanking kit or anything?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

No blanking plates required - yes I map them out