What causes the dreaded injector failure

[rapport25]

As the titlle suggests. Is there anything that can be done to prevent them failing?

[DSG4ME]

The only thing I can think of is the possibility that they get some muck in them, and then burn out working too hard.

[rapport25]

Yes that is what I would imagine but it seems a common thing on the passat.

Touching wood now :D:D I have never had a failed injector, I always use millers ever fill up with shell diesel. Also I never let it run below 1/4 of a tank.

Fingers crossed I will prevent failure then :beerchug:.

[martin1810]

Rumour suggests it is siemens PD injectors that fail due to an internal electrical malfunction. If people who had them replaced posted on here. Which type of injector it was, we could find out more.

[rapport25]

Rumour suggests it is siemens PD injectors that fail due to an internal electrical malfunction. If people who had them replaced posted on here. Which type of injector it was, we could find out more.

Hope so. Also any way to tell you have these fitted vin etc....

Rappy

[johnloaderuk]

This company claims they can repair PD injectors (amongst other things), although I've only read it on their web site, so may or may not be correct.

http://www.feather-diesel.co.uk/contents09/repair/repair.php

[martin1810]

As far as I can tell all passat 2.0 tdi engines are fitted with siemens piezo pd injectors. I think they can only be repaired by the manufacturer. Unless anyone knows different. The 170 hp has a slightly different injector to the others.

[g-black]

The BKP PD 140 engines are the worst for them. Late 05 and early 06 are the worst offender. After researching all over the world when mine went, I found it seemed to be the colder conditions got them. Mine went on a cold morning at 65mph on the motorway with snow on the hardshoulder! Scary :s

But yes seems to be an electrical problem cause the wiring loom usually needs replaced at the same time (about £60)

[fat controller]

Once I get mine replaced, I think I'll stay in the habit of using Millers in every tankful, in an attempt to prevent any more failing on me.

Its a real shame that this engine has issues like this, because its a belter when its running - I just hope that this will be my one and only experience of this.

[martin1810]

I doubt a fuel additive will help. (But it's a nice placebo). The injector control is piezo crystal like some electric lighters but backwards. On the lighter you squash the crystal and electrikery comes out to light the gas. On the injector you put electric stuff in and the crystal expand to close the valve. I believe it is this bit that fails.

[fat controller]

Is there any benefit to be had from an additive then (apart from the placebo effect)?

[kunaalv]

Therefore, replacing the wiring loom as a preventative would be pointless?

[rapport25]

Is there any benefit to be had from an additive then (apart from the placebo effect)?

I have used Millers for well over 2 yrs. And I can only report on my findings. Car is smoother and mpg is improved. And I've never had an injector fail.

Even Mrs Rappy knows when I put in her car. " When are you putting that fuel thingy back in my car":biglaugh::biglaugh::D:D

It wont give massive bhp or mpg improvements but enough to justify putting it in.

Around £10-£12 a bottle and treats 10x 50 litre tanks or in my case a lot less as I always use a double dose every other fill up :approve::approve::approve::approve:

[Crackman 619]

Im thinking of adding additives aswell..read on Autocar that the Commas one was the best but also read on this forum and another that Millers works a treat..

One thing that confuses me as ive never added additives is how do you do it?

Do you add it before you fill up or after? and do you add it straight away or can you drive home and do it then?

Also how do you measure how much to put? I only fill £40 worth of Shell diesel each time as it usually lasts me a long time so dont bother with a full tank..but I always fill up as soon as the car goes 'ding time to fill up son'

Thanks in advance for any advice

[rapport25]

Welcome crackman :D:D:D

On the millers theres is marks on the side of the nozzle. You simple squart up the amount you want and hey presto pour in and job done.

I always fill up with the millers at home just before i need to fill up. Reason being the millers stinks out your boot.

One bottle treats 10 50 litre tanks.

[fat controller]

Welcome crackman :D:D:D

On the millers theres is marks on the side of the nozzle. You simple squart up the amount you want and hey presto pour in and job done.

I always fill up with the millers at home just before i need to fill up. Reason being the millers stinks out your boot.

One bottle treats 10 50 litre tanks.

I rather stupidly lodged my bottle in the passenger door pocket - kept smelling the blighter as I was driving.

[rapport25]

I rather stupidly lodged my bottle in the passenger door pocket - kept smelling the blighter as I was driving.

To be honest the older version diesel sport 4 would stink the car out even more. The only plus was there wasn't the stupid filler neck like the one you get on the new euro bottle :mad::mad:

Off topic, hope you get your car sorted fat controller.

[fat controller]

Thanks for the support rapport :)

I must admit to being seriously gutted when it failed on Monday evening, and a failure so soon after buying it brought all those feelings of dread as I wondered if I had bought a pig in a poke. The thing is, in every other way, it is such a lovely car, so I am trying to look at it the other way now - its had an injector go, and before long there will be a new one nestling in there, so its hopefully one less to worry about.

Points to the dealer that I bought it from - we've managed to reach a swift compromise to getting it sorted, so my pocket isn't going to be hammered to badly.

[rapport25]

Thanks for the support rapport :)

I must admit to being seriously gutted when it failed on Monday evening, and a failure so soon after buying it brought all those feelings of dread as I wondered if I had bought a pig in a poke. The thing is, in every other way, it is such a lovely car, so I am trying to look at it the other way now - its had an injector go, and before long there will be a new one nestling in there, so its hopefully one less to worry about.

Points to the dealer that I bought it from - we've managed to reach a swift compromise to getting it sorted, so my pocket isn't going to be hammered to badly.

Pleased to hear it :D:D:D keep your chin up. I have said this many times before. The passat is the best car I have owned so far :Blush2::Blush2::Blush2:.

The plan with mine is service every 10k and use millers.

Heres to all ther BKP drivers :beerchug: :biglaugh::biglaugh:. The passat is a dam good car (runs and takes cover) :biglaugh::biglaugh:

[Crackman 619]

loll yes the passat is a very good car when everything is running smoothly..but when you hear of other peoples faults you do get abit wary..

I mean on mine i think the turbo vanes are sticking and i also think i need to fix me cv joint as theres this silly grinding noise when going over humps but apart from that its lovely..

One last question regarding Millers..I fill up about £40 worth so thats roughly hmm 34-36 litres of diesel..how much additive should i put then? and is it best to add before you feul up or straight after?

[rapport25]

Add before you fill. There are markings on the side so you can fill up the correct amount no problem.

Hth, Rappy :approve:

[Crackman 619]

Cheers Rappy..feel sorry for anyone waiting behind me in the diesel station they are gonna have abit of a wait lol

[Crackman 619]

Right been searching for Millers and on Halfords theres one called Millers Diesel Power and when searchin on ebay theres one called Millers Diesel EcoMax so which is the one to get?

[vince47]

As far as I can tell all passat 2.0 tdi engines are fitted with siemens piezo pd injectors. I think they can only be repaired by the manufacturer. Unless anyone knows different. The 170 hp has a slightly different injector to the others.

If the 170 has different injectors I wonder if any forum member has had an injector fail on their 170. Have had a quick scan around those people who have had failures but haven't seen a 170 failure. Perhaps my 170 wont die next week after all :D

[kunaalv]

Ok, I've been searching all night but to no avail. Can you guys assist
1. Why can the electronic part of the Siemens injector not be re-conditioned?

2. Why is this injector so, so, so expensive? I can't seem to find the actual Siemens part of the company that develop these else I'd see if we can by-pass our parts stores.

Note: Worrying about the BKP injectors is not good for your health :biglaugh:

[martin1810]

The piezo injectors are a joint VAG/Siemens project. They even started a new company to make them. As far as I know Siemens do not sell them as an aftermarket part. VW quote two prices for the injectors. One is full price and one is exchange. This suggests that siemens can repair the electronics. As far as I am aware no one else can because Siemens don't supply the parts.

[rapport25]

The piezi injectors are a joint VAG/Siemens project. They even started a new company to make them. As far as I know Siemens do not sell them as an aftermarket part. VW quote two prices for the injectors. One is full price and one is exchange. This suggests that siemens can repair the electronics. As far as I am aware no one else can because Siemens don't supply the parts.

Guessed as much. They have the monopoly so can charge whatever they want :(:(:(

On the subject of injectors, I have owned my passsat for just over 6 mths now and in that time I have had this fault pop up 3 times. Once around 2-3mths ago and once last saturday and today.

This is not first thing in the morning. This is after the car has already been driven for over 30 mins and then try to restart it.

Try to start car it cuts out and flashes up on the dash engine workshop fault with glow plug flashing :(:( Remove key and try to start and it fires up fine.

Am I officially about to join the BKP Club of failed injectors? :biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh:.

[Stevew14]

I replaced an injector on my 170BHP 2 months ago ( the body had broken). Cost £325 pounds with £70 back when I returned the old one, fitted it myself.

[kunaalv]

Stevew14, have you got Siemens or Bosch injectors? Where did you buy it from?
Rapport25, that's harsh luck, unlucky. Welcome to the worlds worst club!

[martin1810]

All 2.0 PD tdi engines use siemens injectors. Bosch ones are only used on the 1.9 PD tdi.

[fat controller]

I have a dead Siemens injector if anyone fancies carrying out a post mortem at some stage, maybe we could all benefit from it?

[g-black]

Looks like I have just blown my second injector in 6months. Gutted.

Same thing as last time. On the motorway, at about 65mph. Only this time it went into limp mode and didn't cut out completely. Then after about 10 seconds it cut out, fortunately as I was on the slip ramp coming of home.

I managed to coast about 1/4 mile in to a car park where I now await my brother to tow me home. Car would start bit will soon cut out and now it doesn't start at all.

Love my Passat, but the engine is pure crap. Gutted

[DSG4ME]

If I get one dead, I will be shifting the car on asap, I'm already planning to get rid of it tbh, this car is a total turkey imo, mine shows the beginings of the problems, and I ain't gonna get caught holding the baby, last VAG car for me methinks, I'm off to the rising sun next, VAG absolutely suck tbh, I knew it whe I owned the Skoda, and I let the fact that the 1.9 was so reliable cloud me into buying this, but nearly 3 litres of oil in, I'm looking to cut and run.

[rapport25]

Looks like I have just blown my second injector in 6months. Gutted.

Same thing as last time. On the motorway, at about 65mph. Only this time it went into limp mode and didn't cut out completely. Then after about 10 seconds it cut out, fortunately as I was on the slip ramp coming of home.

I managed to coast about 1/4 mile in to a car park where I now await my brother to tow me home. Car would start bit will soon cut out and now it doesn't start at all.

Love my Passat, but the engine is pure crap. Gutted

Alarm bells are ringing now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad::mad::mad::mad:.

Just to let you all know I have emailed watchdog about the injectors as i believed mine were on the way out. Fingers crossed not yet :Blush2::Blush2:

Watch this space...............................Rappy :approve::approve::approve:

[rapport25]

If I get one dead, I will be shifting the car on asap, I'm already planning to get rid of it tbh, this car is a total turkey imo, mine shows the beginings of the problems, and I ain't gonna get caught holding the baby, last VAG car for me methinks, I'm off to the rising sun next, VAG absolutely suck tbh, I knew it whe I owned the Skoda, and I let the fact that the 1.9 was so reliable cloud me into buying this, but nearly 3 litres of oil in, I'm looking to cut and run.

DSG4ME same here. One injector is one injector to many in my book unless we can get VW to pay :Blush2::Blush2::Blush2: read my previous reply.

As for the oil use I cant comment. Mine has not lost drop. Guys keep your receipts as we all might be on tv soon :Blush2::Blush2: (Watchdog)

I guess we are talking Toyota here?:Blush2::Blush2: If I change it will will be for a 5 series BMW diesel.

[martin1810]

I have a dead Siemens injector if anyone fancies carrying out a post mortem at some stage, maybe we could all benefit from it?

Yes please. I would love to have a look at the electonics.

[rapport25]

Yes please. I would love to have a look at the electonics.

Great, thanks Martin :D:D:D:D:D. I would love to understand why there is a failure on the injectors . As I can guess many on here would.

Would you be interested in joining myself and a few others when Watchdog ask for information relating to the passat's issues. :Blush2::Blush2::Blush2::biglaugh:

[DSG4ME]

If you can get them interested do it Rappy, it's time VAG were taken to book over certain issues, and at £600+ per inj they should be paying for the lot imo.

[rapport25]

If you can get them interested do it Rappy, it's time VAG were taken to book over certain issues, and at £600+ per inj they should be paying for the lot imo.

Dont worry they will be interested :D:D:D I will be emailing them again this week if I dont get a reply :D:D:D. I think I will need to add oil use as well.

Rappy :approve::approve:

[martin1810]

I can't join. Mines a 1.9 tdi and it never goes wrong.:D Of course it will now. :biglaugh:

[rapport25]

I can't join. Mines a 1.9 tdi and it never goes wrong.:D Of course it will now. :biglaugh:

:biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh:

[Crackman 619]

I know this is straying off the injector debate but i need help with me Millers i just received

basically the chamber is full which is not a problem as i can pour into the car how much i need.

What im confused about is the markings..theres a line for 25ml and one for 50ml. What i would like to know is do i fill the full chamber for 50mls or just upto the line? I normally fill 40litres soi need to work out roughly where 40mls is.

Any help would be appreciated :D

[rapport25]

I know this is straying off the injector debate but i need help with me Millers i just received

basically the chamber is full which is not a problem as i can pour into the car how much i need.

What im confused about is the markings..theres a line for 25ml and one for 50ml. What i would like to know is do i fill the full chamber for 50mls or just upto the line? I normally fill 40litres soi need to work out roughly where 40mls is.

Any help would be appreciated :D

I would just use one shot as you can double up the dose for extra performance.

[Crackman 619]

Thanks for that Rapport think I will do that on me first try..any chance you know that if I fill upto the 50ml line then this is 50ml or do I have to fill the whole chamber for 50mls?

[rapport25]

To the 50ml line.

[Crackman 619]

Thanks Rappy why cant they explain things on the bottle properly lol

[martin1810]

I have a dead Siemens injector if anyone fancies carrying out a post mortem at some stage, maybe we could all benefit from it?


I have carried out a partial autopsy on Fat Controllers injector.
If you are interested, the results are here. https://sites.google.com/site/1810martin/siemens-pd-piezo-injectors

[vince47]

Absolutely fascinating Martin. Now you need a couple more to see if the fail is consistent! Was the top seal definitely blackened rather than just pin1 is blue and pin2 is black? The lower seals are different colours so wondered if the upper ones are. Is the black one conductive still cf. to the blue one now its out, on say the 200k range? That would then be pretty conclusive.
Looking at this complication and the environment its sitting in makes me wonder why they take so long to fail:aargh4::aargh4::D
Wonder if my VW garage would give me a couple of duffers to play with. Hmmm

[g-black]

That's taken alot of effort and just want to say many thanks!

Would be intresting to see if you could find the same results on another failed injector. Why do VW ask to keep them? I asked for mine back but they said it's an exchange only.

[johnloaderuk]

That's taken alot of effort and just want to say many thanks!

Likewise, good on ya martin1810 :beerchug:.

[martin1810]

My guess is VW keep them because Siemens can recondition them. With regards to the blue and black insulator. Simple answer is I don't know. It may have started black or turned black I can't tell, but the black one does feel different to the blue one. Once it was dismantled I couldn't manufacture a short accross any of the insulators. Trouble is I really need to test at 200V region and I don't have the equipment.

[Quatrelle]

Fascinating and informative post. Thanks - here and above.

[fat controller]

Thanks again Martin - thanks to you we all have a better understanding of the issue, even if we are still currently at the mercy of VW & Siemens for replacement injectors.

I live in hope that someone will develop a cheaper option to repairing these, or that the price of them comes down due to the demand for them.

[a8 tech]

9597


Piezo actuator
Piezo (Greek) = pressure
A well-known application area for piezo elements is
sensors. Pressure is applied to a piezo element and a
measurable voltage is generated. This behaviour of a
crystal structure is called a piezo-electrical effect.
When a piezo actuator is used, this effect is reversed.
The inverse piezo-electrical effect is used.
That means a voltage is applied to the piezo element
and the crystal structure of the piezo element reacts
by changing in length.

The change in length of a piezo element is
proportional to the voltage applied. That means that
the change in length of a piezo element, or the piezo
actuator, can be controlled with the voltage.
The control voltage of the piezo actuator is between
100V and 200V.

9598

A piezo element is approx. 0.08mm thick and the
change when the voltage is applied is only 0.15%.
To achieve a maximum actuator travel of approx.
0.04mm, several piezo elements need to be stacked.
In this piezo stack, the individual piezo elements are
separated by metal contact plates (voltage supply).
The piezo stack forms the piezo actuator together with
the pressure plate.


Converter
The piezo actuator has an actuator travel of approx.
0.04mm. The valve needle requires an actuator travel
of approx. 0.1mm. To balance out this difference, a
converter in the form of a lever is used.
If the piezo actuator is not activated, the converter will
be in the rest position. The valve needle is opened by
the valve needle spring.

9599
If the piezo actuator is activated, the pressure plate
will press against the converter. The actuator travel is
extended to approx. 0.1mm due to the ratio of the
lever assembly.
The valve needle is closed and the injection pressure
is built up.

[Europa25]

I saw the title of this thread, and didn't want to read it - but now i have :scared: !

Someone said it's late 05 / early 06 models that are affected - i have a 55 plate :D

On the plus side (maybe), it only has 34k on the clock and has been predominantly a motorway cruiser with good performance.

I use Texaco or BP fuel only, no additive, so is there a low chance of this occuring, or is it random with no particular feature that causes it ?

Well, I'll hope it doesn't strike but what is there anything else you can do to lower the chances?

[johnloaderuk]

Someone said it's late 05 / early 06 models that are affected - i have a 55 plate :D

Well, I'll hope it doesn't strike but what is there anything else you can do to lower the chances?

My first B6 was a 55 reg 2.0TDI 140 with BKP engine type, had it from new and got rid of it with 146k on the clock. Never a hint of injector problems, so I wouldn't worry over what might or might not happen.

However it does appear to be random over mileage, usage, fuel type used etc. Doesn't appear to be anything you can do to eliminate the risk of it happening - if it's going to fail it will, and if it doesn't it doesn't.

Good luck, I hope yours is one that it doesn't happen to like mine.

[mikecb1]

Martin

Well done carrying out this thorough investigation. The fact that the short disappeared after dismantling and reassembling the unit is, I think, very significant. I have seen faults of this kind caused by the breakdown of contaminants under voltage stress. The carbon residues can then sometimes be displaced by dismantling, making the fault apparently disappear.

I would urge you to pass your report in full on to the relevant part of VW.

Mike

[zollaf]

martin, 9 thanks in 1 post, is that a forum record ?

[rapport25]

A big thanks Martin for the research. And Fat controller for the injector. :beerchug::beerchug:

I wonder if VW will take note and offer a recon injector for a sensible price?

I really wish this info could be passed onto VW :D

[rapport25]

martin, 9 thanks in 1 post, is that a forum record ?

Make that 10 :biglaugh::D.

[martin1810]

martin, 9 thanks in 1 post, is that a forum record ?


Hey Zollaf...I hadn't realised as I had no reason to look back. I hope it's not a record, I'm not worthy of one. Thanks to all those who said "thanks". I'm just a boring old fart with nothing better to do.:D

[Alpha4]

Right been searching for Millers and on Halfords theres one called Millers Diesel Power and when searchin on ebay theres one called Millers Diesel EcoMax so which is the one to get?

Can some nice gentleman answer this one please, as I don't know which to buy.

Thanks.

[rapport25]

Hey Zollaf...I hadn't realised as I had no reason to look back. I hope it's not a record, I'm not worthy of one. Thanks to all those who said "thanks". I'm just a boring old fart with nothing better to do.:D

Martin its 10 not 9 :D. I would say far from boring :approve::approve:. When will you be looking at the steering module failures?.

[rapport25]

Can some nice gentleman answer this one please, as I don't know which to buy.

Thanks.
Hi Alpha, Diesel sport 4 is the older version, ECO max is the newer improverd version. Halfords only sell the new. They have not updated there website.

Hth,

Rappy :D

[fat controller]

Hey Zollaf...I hadn't realised as I had no reason to look back. I hope it's not a record, I'm not worthy of one. Thanks to all those who said "thanks". I'm just a boring old fart with nothing better to do.:D

For once, I have to disagree with you I'm afraid, as you most certainly worthy! Its thanks to the time, effort and knowledge, all given free of charge by good folks like yourself that make forums like this the success that they are.

Without people like you, we'd all be quietly stuffed, and end up paying through the nose again and again.

[zollaf]

blimey, up to 13 now. is this a record ?

[hijamie]

The BKP PD 140 engines are the worst for them. Late 05 and early 06 are the worst offender. After researching all over the world when mine went, I found it seemed to be the colder conditions got them. Mine went on a cold morning at 65mph on the motorway with snow on the hardshoulder! Scary :s

But yes seems to be an electrical problem cause the wiring loom usually needs replaced at the same time (about £60)

Broke down on the fast lane of a motorway. what a nightmare.
Yip I have the 06 BKP PD 140 bhp and just replaced no1 injector bought from Vw £365 as there seems no option. Car drove ok for 50 mile and stopped again, refused to start for about 15 mins then started and drove 2 mile stopped again, same again, several times to get home. Advised to replace injector loom which again bought from vw £75. So about to do this ,will update post when done. Anyone with similar problem. Injectors are seimens type.
Back again, drove about 10 mile and broke down again, (smart this time brought wife in back up car with tow rope). would not start, engine turning over well but no fire, would sound like lack of fuel or is there a fuel cut off solenoid somewhere? On route home on rope tried a few time to start it, eventually started and drove 2 mile home. Any ideas would be welcome.
hijamie

[billythetidd]

Are the injectors covered under warranty? 60,000miles 3 years warranties?

[Stuart W]

Hey Zollaf...I hadn't realised as I had no reason to look back. I hope it's not a record, I'm not worthy of one. Thanks to all those who said "thanks".

Well with the amount of hugely knowledgeable help provided on here an accolade of some kind is certainly in order Martin, although personally I'm not in the least bit thankful because it's all pretty meaningless to me, and what I really want to know is when precisely my injectors will fail ;)

And I've never used the 'thanks' button anyway and prefer to show my gratitude in words, just in case anyone looks at my profile and thinks I'm an ungrateful so and so.

[martin1810]

Dam I meant to click the "ungrateful so and so" button but hit the thanks by mistake.:D:biglaugh:

[hijamie]

Hi, ]Broke down on the fast lane of a motorway. what a nightmare.
Yip I have the 06 BKP PD 140 bhp and just replaced no1 injector bought from Vw £365 as there seems no option. Car drove ok for 50 mile and stopped again, refused to start for about 15 mins then started and drove 2 mile stopped again, same again, several times to get home. Advised to replace injector loom which again bought from vw £75. So about to do this ,will update post when done. Anyone with similar problem. Injectors are siemens type.
Back again, drove about 10 mile and broke down again, (smart this time brought wife in back up car with tow rope). would not start, engine turning over well but no fire, would sound like lack of fuel or is there a fuel cut off solenoid somewhere? On route home on rope tried a few time to start it, eventually started and drove 2 mile home.
Not any further forward. Car is very hard to start but will then run about 20 mins and cut out. Refuses to restart for about 30 mins after a lot of turning over and will cut out after a short time. I think it could be fuel but connected a manual pump (squeeze type of a citroen diesel) but made no difference. Starting to think it may be a second injector. Has anyone cured their problem on these? Is the fuel pump in the fuel tank, I can hear a noise when switched on but it sounds to be down back of engine.
Any ideas would be welcome.
hijamie

[martin1810]

Doesn't sound like an injector failure. Pointless guessing. Get a code read. The lift pump for fuel is in the tank. The pump to the injectors is the tandem pump on the end of the cylinder head. Either could be failing.

[g-black]

I was able to get my car goin again after the injector cut out on the motorway. Exactly like stated above. I have a video on my phone of the exact moment when the engine cut out after being reatarted. I will up load it to YouTube now.

[amjidkhan1982]

If the 170 has different injectors I wonder if any forum member has had an injector fail on their 170. Have had a quick scan around those people who have had failures but haven't seen a 170 failure. Perhaps my 170 wont die next week after all :D

I had had a injector fail on my 170

[g-black]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=za_bKnNtZzk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Zeb]

Have you guys heard of this?

http://www.liquimoly.co.uk/index.php?p=product_details&id=13 Petrol engines

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LIQUI-MOLY-diesel-purge-injection-cleaner-500ml-_W0QQitemZ290136691523QQcmdZViewItem?rvr_id=162416 348008&rvr_id=162416348008&cguid=b0210ce912b0a0a9f624d534fff7012f Diesel Engines


http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/usa_2005.html - More info]


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3zpwPNijnI Video on how to do it!

[hijamie]

Hi many thanks, Will I get a fault code when there are no fault lights coming up on dash or is it a matter of fitting parts to find fault. The local technican says that no code will appear. The tandum pump seems to have plenty of suction. There would seem to be no real quanty of fuel or any pressure when I take of one of the fuel pipes beside the filter. Should the tank pump pump when the car is switched on only or has it to be turning over.

[martin1810]

The tandem pump will only pressurise the fuel with the engine turning over. You could get someone to test the pressure. Should be just under 12 bar I think.

[hijamie]

The tandem pump will only pressurise the fuel with the engine turning over. You could get someone to test the pressure. Should be just under 12 bar I think.

Hi again, when I replaced the injector I was told to leave the rocker settings as they were but I have since read in a workship guide that i should reset them by turning the engine until rocker is fully closed then adjust rocker screw until it makes firm contact with injector then turn anti-clockwise 180 degrees. It seems very slack, going by this method all my rockers are too tight. Would this info be correct, it comes from a elsawin manual. Could this be the reason why my car cuts out after 15-20 mins.

[martin1810]

Please don't tell me you ran the engine without setting the injector first. Setting the injector piston clearance is vital. If by some miracle you left it loose you may be ok. If it is tight the injector will be scrap. If you need the setting procedure let me know but from your description I would think you now have the instructions.

[ToMBoY_C]

Is this the stuff everyone's using?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160367947027&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Might get some to be nice to my engine :)

[fat controller]

Is this the stuff everyone's using?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160367947027&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Might get some to be nice to my engine :)

Thats the stuff mate - I can't be sure if it actually does the engine any good or not, but it sure feels better with it than it does without, and it definitely improves fuel economy.

[ToMBoY_C]

I'll try it!

[DSG4ME]

I'll try it!


Placebo. ;)

[rapport25]

Thats the stuff mate - I can't be sure if it actually does the engine any good or not, but it sure feels better with it than it does without, and it definitely improves fuel economy.

It sure does fat controller :D And running on Shell V power as well :approve: it will be like Christmas for your car Tom Boy :biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh:

[hijamie]

Thanks to all for sharing their problems. I eventually got mine sorted with many thanks to a local car dealer who allowed me to swap parts to find the problem. The filter head was the cure although I could see no obvious fault but I suspect it must have been drawing air. Now back on the road going better than ever. thanks again.
PS. I have read many fault problems but few people return with their solution to share. Good fed back is a great help to others. happy motoring :beerchug:

[lorencpiotr]

As far as I can tell all passat 2.0 tdi engines are fitted with siemens piezo pd injectors. I think they can only be repaired by the manufacturer. Unless anyone knows different. The 170 hp has a slightly different injector to the others.


Hi Martin

Have a look:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330498811074&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

[lorencpiotr]

As the titlle suggests. Is there anything that can be done to prevent them failing?


Hi.

There's nothing you can do to prevent this fault.

Millage has nothing to do with this.

And finally filling on shell only will not prevent this issues.

Pete

[lorencpiotr]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330498811074&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

[vince47]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330498811074&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

Hi, I may be putting 2 and 2 together but...
your forum name is lorencpiotr
and the injector web site http://www.injectorsdirect.co.uk/
has contact details of 4me@lorenc.me.uk
and phrases on the web site match phrases on the forum
so are you and the repairer pretty close to each other:biglaugh:?
If you are you may become very popular here so don't be shy;)

[lorencpiotr]

Hi, I may be putting 2 and 2 together but...
your forum name is lorencpiotr
and the injector web site http://www.injectorsdirect.co.uk/
has contact details of 4me@lorenc.me.uk
and phrases on the web site match phrases on the forum
so are you and the repairer pretty close to each other:biglaugh:?
If you are you may become very popular here so don't be shy;)

Thanks mate:D

Will advertise on forum properly very soon. Just awaitng for response from advertising team.

[rapport25]

Hi, I may be putting 2 and 2 together but...
your forum name is lorencpiotr
and the injector web site http://www.injectorsdirect.co.uk/
has contact details of 4me@lorenc.me.uk
and phrases on the web site match phrases on the forum
so are you and the repairer pretty close to each other:biglaugh:?
If you are you may become very popular here so don't be shy;)

X2 :D

0 feedback is a bit worrying though!!! :(

[lorencpiotr]

X2 :D

0 feedback is a bit worrying though!!! :(


Hi.

We all need to start at some point.
Personally, I've got few years experience on eBay but decided to separate my private activity from business and I'm not pushing anybody to do business if not convinced for 100%. I'm happy to respond all questions. Pete

[rapport25]

Hi.

We all need to start at some point.
Personally, I've got few years experience on eBay but decided to separate my private activity from business and I'm not pushing anybody to do business if not convinced for 100%. I'm happy to respond all questions. Pete

:approve::approve: totally agree. How many have you repaired?

Thanks Rappy

[lorencpiotr]

:approve::approve: totally agree. How many have you repaired?

Thanks Rappy

At the uk about 20 since we started mid october. Mostly via our contacts with VW specialists and breakers London area. I think in uk we need more time to build relability. Plenty repaired and sent to portugal, germany, austria, slovenia. Even malta. Poland and east europe is big market. As far no returns:D

[lorencpiotr]

This company claims they can repair PD injectors (amongst other things), although I've only read it on their web site, so may or may not be correct.

http://www.feather-diesel.co.uk/contents09/repair/repair.php


They not dealing with Siemens PD injectors.
For my querry they responded:
No repair concept for siemens pd injectors, new only, main dealer

[Jo Illingworth]

Loren,

what actually causes these injectors to fail? You say nothing can be done to prevent and mileage isn't related to it, can I assume it's breaks or break down of the electrical side of it?

[lorencpiotr]

Loren,

what actually causes these injectors to fail? You say nothing can be done to prevent and mileage isn't related to it, can I assume it's breaks or break down of the electrical side of it?

You're right. In 99% it's electrical fault. Remining 1% is phisical damage.
And for sure has nothing to do with millage or petrol station brand.

And not only PD injectors. Also common rail ones and pumps developing issues to keep busy VW services.

[g-black]

Some say he has too much time on his hands, all we know is he's called martin1810 and here's what he has found.

http://sites.google.com/site/1810martin/siemens-pd-piezo-injectors

All you'll need to know about the injector.

[lorencpiotr]

Some say he has too much time on his hands, all we know is he's called martin1810 and here's what he has found.

http://sites.google.com/site/1810martin/siemens-pd-piezo-injectors

All you'll need to know about the injector.


Great presentation:approve:

[vince47]

Some say he has too much time on his hands, all we know is he's called martin1810 and here's what he has found.

.
I prefer to think Martin is one of the most helpful forum guys
lorencpiotr (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/member.php?u=159332) Sorry to break your cover but this way already its a better conversation and helpful to all. Somebody who can repair injectors is most welcome if it saves us giving large amounts to VW

[lorencpiotr]

I prefer to think Martin is one of the most helpful forum guys
lorencpiotr (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/member.php?u=159332) Sorry to break your cover but this way already its a better conversation and helpful to all. Somebody who can repair injectors is most welcome if it saves us giving large amounts to VW

Totally agree. Martin is defenetely very experienced VW specialist and his advices saved lots of time and cash to forum readers.
Full respect to his knowledge.

[martin1810]

Is it possible for you to tell us which part of the injector fails and which parts you recondition. Also, how do you test the reconditioned injector.

[rapport25]

Is it possible for you to tell us which part of the injector fails and which parts you recondition. Also, how do you test the reconditioned injector.

x2

[lorencpiotr]

Is it possible for you to tell us which part of the injector fails and which parts you recondition. Also, how do you test the reconditioned injector.

Hi Martin.
Thanks for a question and hope you will understand that I can't give you straight answer. Firstly, I'm not a technican. My job is retail. So that's not me personally repairing injectors. Our technicans don't want to be to detailed to describe what they doing. But they have got confidence to offer long warranty for their job.
Pete

[DSG4ME]

I believe it's electronic burnout, and for that to happen would possibly be overworked component, which would point towards a blocked injector to start with, leading on to the burnout of the electronic's.

For me the safe option, which might not even be it, is to keep them clean with It tune up and cleaner fluid in the tank every 10k.

[rapport25]

I believe it's electronic burnout, and for that to happen would possibly be overworked component, which would point towards a blocked injector to start with, leading on to the burnout of the electronic's.

For me the safe option, which might not even be it, is to keep them clean with It tune up and cleaner fluid in the tank every 10k.

X2. And at that price seems to be a great reason to keep the Sat :approve:

[mike4211]

Just had No1 injector replaced on my 56 A4 170 tdi and keen to maximise lifetime of remaining two originals... Has anyone noticed a relationship between the oil change interval/ short vs long journey driving/ cold weather and the incidence of piezo injector failure? If it's oil ingress that's degrading the electrical insulation inside the injectors, could a buildup of fuel residues or water in the engine oil be a contributory factor?

[phil miller]

the course ive just done at college showed me how to test peizo injectors with a scope, i was also shown how to test for one that is starting to break down, now right or wrongly i was told on this course that they dont just 'break' when you scope them you get a digital picture of what the injector is doing and from this you can tell how they are, it sounds very complicated but it really isnt, im in work tomorrow i will try and get a print out off on that good and one that is showing signs of failure

all i will say is i have only scoped good ones, but ive been shown results of a scoped one on deaths door that was saved before it packed up, we have at work a 2lt that is in for diag of the injectors, which will be my job tomorrow so i will see what the scope tells me

[gingernut352000]

I've just joined teh failure club 2l 140 tdi on 55 plate garage say that best to replace the lom at £60 extra because oil could have got to it my injector has gone to earth so defo electrical fault so as from tomorrow will br £767 lighter in my bank acccount.

adrian

[rapport25]

I've just joined teh failure club 2l 140 tdi on 55 plate garage say that best to replace the lom at £60 extra because oil could have got to it my injector has gone to earth so defo electrical fault so as from tomorrow will br £767 lighter in my bank acccount.

adrian

How many miles have you covered?

[gingernut352000]

Well car back to night and what a difference doen't sound like a tractor any more so that must be a warning sign.

Car has done just over 75000.

Have to say that Richard RSR auto in Bromsgrove came good for me turned the car round quickly. recomend the guy for those in worcs / w/mids he dows all german makes and landrovers by the looks of things

[kunaalv]

Alas, I've found a company who appears to repair Siemens injectors, anyone used them...
http://www.tehnomotive.com/index_eng.html

[kunaalv]

Also, there is the UK company who'll reburb your injector for around £200

http://www.injectorsdirect.co.uk/-siemens-injector-reconditioning-service-10-p.asp

[rapport25]

Good find :approve:.

If mine ever decide to fail. I will be contacting them.

Rappy

[gingernut352000]

Apparently mine fell appart as it was removed so refurb would have been no good to me

[Playya]

I have just had my second injector go in 4 months (first at 103,000, second at 111,000). When I got the car back after the first one went it felt smooth as silk, almost like a brand new car. Recently though I had noticed it just not running as well. Hard to put my finger on it but just a tad more sluggish and with a louder diesel tick. I had a feeling another was about to go and yesterday it did! Trouble is I was on the outside lane of the M1 with my wife and two kids in the car and believe you me, my wife is NOT the person you want sitting next to you in an emergency! By the grace of God I managed to get over to the hard shoulder but what I was wondering was;
would VCDS have shown any injector faults when the car was feeling sluggish? and if so what codes would they be?
I don't like dicing with death and thought maybe I could change the injector BEFORE it goes next time.

[hijamie]

hi all, Yip I just lost a second injector in 6 months and again just cut out on B road at night, blocking traffic, a real disaster. Not only that but two of my friends have had to replace two injectors each in their cars. Surely VW must answer to this and do a recall before someone is serious injured or killed.
A very disappointing Passat from VW. Does anyone know if the 2.0TDI Jetta or Golf is using the same injectors.

[hijamie]

Apparently mine fell appart as it was removed so refurb would have been no good to me


Apparently this site does not require you to return your injector for reconditioning, going to try it out to see
http://www.injectorsdirect.co.uk/03g130073d-140-bhp-reconditioned-part-11-p.asp

[martin1810]

Apparently mine fell appart as it was removed so refurb would have been no good to me

That is highly unlikely. They are a nightmare to take apart. Can't see one falling apart.

[martin1810]

Apparently this site does not require you to return your injector for reconditioning, going to try it out to see
http://www.injectorsdirect.co.uk/03g130073d-140-bhp-reconditioned-part-11-p.asp


If you find out anything let us all know. As far as I am aware, piezo injectors can't be reconditioned, except by Siemens.

[hijamie]

have you used them?, not exactly next door are they. what do they charge etc?

[hijamie]

If you find out anything let us all know. As far as I am aware, piezo injectors can't be reconditioned, except by Siemens.
This site is also advertising these recon injectors on ebay reference Item number: 260764068421. with a hertfordshire address. If it looks to good to be true IS IT???
Look too suspicious for me. Rang phone but no answer or no return call. Under a different name on ebay. Went with VW to be sure and back on the road again in two days. Is there a pattern here, those that i have talked to have had no1 & 3 failure, what about anyone else??

[Playya]

I have just had my second injector go in 4 months (first at 103,000, second at 111,000). When I got the car back after the first one went it felt smooth as silk, almost like a brand new car. Recently though I had noticed it just not running as well. Hard to put my finger on it but just a tad more sluggish and with a louder diesel tick. I had a feeling another was about to go and yesterday it did! Trouble is I was on the outside lane of the M1 with my wife and two kids in the car and believe you me, my wife is NOT the person you want sitting next to you in an emergency! By the grace of God I managed to get over to the hard shoulder but what I was wondering was;
would VCDS have shown any injector faults when the car was feeling sluggish? and if so what codes would they be?
I don't like dicing with death and thought maybe I could change the injector BEFORE it goes next time.

Anyone?

[martin1810]

Most VCDS injector fault codes refer to fuel injection timing. These often occur randomly and don't mean you have a faulty injector, so you can't use VCDS to predict if the injector is likely to fail. As soon as the engine ECU detects a short circuit between the signal wire and earth (-) or +, it switches off all injectors and the engine stops. They are connected in pairs so when one fails, you get a VCDS error for TWO injectors. See my site for more detail.

[potshot]

have you used them?, not exactly next door are they. what do they charge etc?

I find the whole set up extremely suspect - they only give a mobile phone number, there are NO terms and conditions on the site, there is no reference to company details, office/address/company number etc., on the site. The web address is registered to an individual and not a company................... highly sus IMHO

[Playya]

Most VCDS injector fault codes refer to fuel injection timing. These often occur randomly and don't mean you have a faulty injector, so you can't use VCDS to predict if the injector is likely to fail. As soon as the engine ECU detects a short circuit between the signal wire and earth (-) or +, it switches off all injectors and the engine stops. They are connected in pairs so when one fails, you get a VCDS error for TWO injectors. See my site for more detail.
Thanks

[Europa25]

This is a long running theme on Passats, and it seems high time that VW applied a consistent policy to this and gave all owners a decent markdown on replacement for those affected by a very costly breakdown caused by this.
Seems some drivers pay £800, whereas others (with VW's recognition that it is a design fault) pay as little (hah!) as £300.

As the owner of an Feb 06 2.0 TDi, it has caught my interest - I'm not going to worry if not needed, but the car does spend 90% of it's life on the M25 (non peak), so don't fancy a cut-out in lane 4 (or even 5) if this happens!

As I have read it, the electrical loom it runs from is a factor - is it worth just getting that replaced regardless as a precaution ? - or is it the injector failure that then causes something to happen to the wiring ?

I'm only on 38k / long service interval, but would rather do all to lessen the chance than face a hefty bill !

[martin1810]

The loom is not a problem, it never has been. The problem is the piezo electric part of the injector. The loom often has to be replaced because the mechanic damages it when pulling the connector off the injector. This happens so often that most garages just replace the loom anyway.

[Depressed]

I have a 2007 2.0 TDI Passat. Just had the No 1 injector fail, replaced under extended warranty,and the wiring loom also replaced, altho VW said the loom was not covered by the warranty. Payment for this has still to be resolved.

My warranty expires in one week. I am debating renewing it (it came with the car on purchase). Reading this thread makes me wonder whether it is sensible to keep the vehicle as I am worried another injector (or more) might fail. I like the car and am debating whether to take out another warranty. It has done 49,400 miles. Any advice welcome please as I am a technical duffer

[goldenwonder]

Hmm this is starting to worry me now as well. I have a 2007 2.0 TDI with the BKP engine and it looks like its only a matter of time! Failures are one thing but what really concerns me is how they fail, i.e the engine cuts out completely which is stupidly dangerous - how has this not been addressed by VOSA!

Every time I'm on the motorway its in the back of my mind now! I've only had the car 3 months and I've got no way of telling if its had any injector replaced, although by the sounds of it the replacement injectors are no better!

Having said that, I've seen 2 '11' plate Passat estates broken down in the last week - *** are VW doing these days!

[Playya]

Well I have just got mine back after my second injector went in three months (56plate - 103,000 and 111,000 miles). I was just wondering if another one goes is it safe to just unplug the faulty injector and carry on? if so how long for? Its just that I do a lot of motorway miles either late at night or early in the morning and I don't fancy another hour wait at the side of the motorway freezing my b***s off in pitch blackness!

[dunkley201]

Apologies for resurrecting this thread guys - but guess what happened to me on my way home this afternoon? 60-70 mph, fast lane of dual carriageway "engine fault garage" comes up. Engine hesitates and dies. Managed to recover to kerbside. Switched off, waited a few moments. Ignition on, started ok (with exclamation mark on MFD). Drove a few hundred yards. Died again. This time no restart at all. Called out recovery (RAC through Aviva). He confirmed fault codes 5714; 4160; 8518. I understand 4160 refers to injectors electrical short to earth. Recovered to Newark VW. They will investigate tomorrow. Not had a chance to scan it myself. I will keep you posted! The new Avatar says it all!

Edit: Just been told: No 2 injector failure. Will be changed with loom too. 100% goodwill, no charge!:approve: Collect tonight.

[Goughie]

Apologies for resurrecting this thread guys - but guess what happened to me on my way home this afternoon? 60-70 mph, fast lane of dual carriageway "engine fault garage" comes up. Engine hesitates and dies. Managed to recover to kerbside. Switched off, waited a few moments. Ignition on, started ok (with exclamation mark on MFD). Drove a few hundred yards. Died again. This time no restart at all. Called out recovery (RAC through Aviva). He confirmed fault codes 5714; 4160; 8518. I understand 4160 refers to injectors electrical short to earth. Recovered to Newark VW. They will investigate tomorrow. Not had a chance to scan it myself. I will keep you posted! The new Avatar says it all!

Edit: Just been told: No 2 injector failure. Will be changed with loom too. 100% goodwill, no charge!:approve: Collect tonight.

Motor quitting in the fast lane could have ended badly, very badly! The fact that VW stumped up says it all. good result in the end.

[gingernut352000]

I had injector 4 fail in february and that was replaced with the loom as recomended. On thursday last week Injector 1 failed whilst on hols car trucked back via VW assist to local dealers who confirmed the Assist diagnosis. I had lost total confidence in the car so instructed dealer to also replace injectors 2 & 3. so it has a new full set and a new loom. So collect car last night and was £1900 worse off. Last friday whils awaiting for the tow truck after a hotel overnight stay I call VW cust serv and asked for good will as this was now apparent it was a common fault resultant of bad design etc.

Called VW cust serv today to advise of the cost and ask if they wanted the invoice copy which they said they did and they would check with the dealers. Well 1/2hr after emailing had a phone call to say we will pay yesterdays bill in full and if you send february invoice we will consider paying that as well.

So reason for the post is that it is without doubt worth speaking to VW. Mind you I did say after 10 VW i would go to Toyota! (LOL)

Will email the previous invoice and I now await their cheque.

[g-black]

How many miles on your car and what year? Seems like there starting to crack a little. More and more people seem to be getting some/all of there Injectors paid for.

[gingernut352000]

How many miles on your car and what year? Seems like there starting to crack a little. More and more people seem to be getting some/all of there Injectors paid for.

81004 car registered jan 2006 2.0ltr 140 PD

[dunkley201]

"Seems like there starting to crack a little"

That's not "crack a little", that's gone belly up!!

[g-black]

With that milage and age is amazing! I think anyone who has an injector go should be quoting this thread as a reference. If they can give it to one customer, why not all of them?!

[james_tiger_woo]

I don't know if this might help....