Referring to a "Dealer" as someone who steals

[Crasher]

Not quite what I meant. They get people in on the basis of a simple job and allow the true to appear later when the car is in bits, not fraud or stealing but sharp practise all the same, most garages do it especially when short of work as many are at the moment. I hear both my local dealers are pulling their hair out as collapsed new cars sales mean reduced guaranteed new car supply related work and reduced warranty work. The other thing that is hurting them are the Longlife service regimes, double the length of the interval, reduce car sales and that is a triple whammy. The whole market is changing through; it is very, different, at the moment. I went into my local VAG breakers yesterday and they were scrapping a 2001 Bora 1.6 as the engine was making. The car was very clean but the cost of repairs and the value didn’t stack up, it is all very odd at the moment. I am busy and for that I am thankful.

[Col]

I think the whole automotive industry needs to re-invent itself as at present things are unsustainable.

The R&D costs of pushing out new models every few years as opposed to every 7-10 years is the root cause I think. Those R&D costs are obviously passed on along the whole supply chain until it reaches the buyers of the cars.

The dealers have to pay higher francise costs and tooling costs. Car buyers have to pay for more expensive cars. Except they are not. The manurfacturers need to slow down the lifecycle of a model. Except they cannot because the Pacific Rim manurfacturers are not slowing down.

The fact is cars are being produced that people want it is just they are to expensive.

[Crasher]

I don’t think cars are too expensive for what they are provide. When my mother bought her first new car in 1978 it was the equivalent to more than half a years salary as a teacher, now the same class of car would cost less than a quarter of a years salary for someone in the same job today. The problem with modern cars is they are just too complex with all their safety and emissions requirements plus the luxury gadgets we demand and so when they break at ten years old they cost too much to repair. Usually there is a long list of faults that has built up too so you get the odd situation of a car that looks straight and clean being scrapped due to the cost of repair.

Going off on a slight tangent, something thing has been worrying me about electric cars, no one has brought up the subject of air conditioning in the summer and heating in the winter-how are these two services going to be provided? Plus youngsters with their thumping stereo’s, were is the power going to come from?

[zollaf]

heat and air conditioning could be provided by a small petrol generator, the same one that you carry to recharge on the move.

[Crasher]

So zero local emissions bites the dust then… That is what I know the solution is but do those in power? People want A/C and need heating as a cold weather safety feature.

[A4soundman]

I use another car forum a lot and have noticed the S term being used loads in relation to the cost of parts and labour.
Regarding the cost of parts though, sometimes you just have to realise that you get what you pay for.
If you buy a cheaper non-VAG part from another supplier, often it won't be as high quality and won't last as long. So buying the more expensive part from the dealer can make more sense. But people still object to the higher price.
As for labour costs, this thread has already shown that the higher cost is justified by the overheads incurred by the dealership.

I will always try to use an independant garage. When I was in Nottingham I always used a smallish place called David Drew Garages, they were great, they only did what you asked and if they spotted something they'd let you know about it and whether it needed doing and ask if you wanted it done now or wait.
Sadly I now live in London and need to find a good local independant as I don't fancy a) shody repair or b) huge bill from a dealer. But I'm realistic, I realise I might not be able to have my cake and eat it.

On the matter of MOTs and Audi, has anyone gone for a Free MOT from Audi: http://www.audi.co.uk/audi/uk/en2/ow.../free-mot.html
I like the offer and may take it up, but if the car needs any work, I'd probably be stuck with having to pay the Audi labour rates.

[davelincs]

I have been on other forums, 2 of them have a hall of fame and shame
the hall of fame you name a dealer, whether it be the main dealer, independant garage, online service and the list goes on, also you have to write what the service was,
the hall of shame, well that speaks for itself, if a dealer does you a bad turn, overcharge on original quote, abusive staff and so on, you also have to write about why you were putting there name in the hall of shame
at least other members can have a look to see if a dealer in there area is any good or not,
does this site have such a thing?

[a8 tech]

This forum has many dealer staff who add to the forum and also it gives a view from the inside as well as technical information as well as pointing out the truth.There is no real benefit from constantly moaning because you didn't get what you wanted and vag group has invested lots of money in to the uk network to improve customer relations but people are people.I would be interested in your occupation and your level of service you provide as I to have issues but they are with computer shops and phone shops and these don't even get near the level now of customer service now seen in the Audi network.Having dealt with many a awkward customer I feel sometimes they are after cuddle and I myself hold back a bit when I have to deal with shoddy service as its not very pleasant abusing staff especially in a restaurant where body fluids may end up in your soup lol.
I recently dealt with a local vauxhall dealer and found there level of customer service shocking and technical knowledge very very poor the issue was simple they were trying to sell additional items on a vehicle they had serviced but these items were well within the specifications set by the manufacturer but after pointing this out they had no reply which raised the question in directing the complaint to trading standards which then led to a service manager appearing and me showing him how to use a micrometer to determine brake disc actual wear and recommended thickness for replacement,please take into account this vehicle had covered only 5000 miles.Lets say the matter was never resolved due to owner of the vehicle my mate asked him which leg he would prefer to be broken.

[peteo]

I think this idea of the complexity of many modern cars leading to an early death as it were is very true. You have to ask yourself, for example, whether you would have a new clutch fitted in a 10 year old car. The reason I mention this is my next door neighbour has a T reg Astra (1999?). It's worth about £400 even though, bodily at least, it looks pretty clean. His clutch is on the way out and he's been quoted £450.

He's decided to scrap the car - he's cursing because he just outside the 10 year scheme.

If your air con system failed, you might be looking down the barrel of a grand or even more. Possibly, as Crasher implies, this explains the fact that even though cars last longer bodily and even though engines will do collosal mileages, you now rarely see even quite recent cars. When did you last see a Ford Sierra for example?

[monzablue16v]

I can't believe you are sticking up for main dealers. It's unreal the amount they charge for the simplest of tasks, the only time I will go into one is to collect parts I can only get from them.

They got the title by charging extortionate rates for services and simple diagnostics in the first three years of ownership. Ask them for a price to connect the VAG analysis machine to your port and tell you the fault codes and make sure you are sat down.

The new laws on servicing are the best thing to happen as they now have to try and match the prices of local independents. As for overheads well stop buying such high rent shiny glass and steel buildings then that's just basic business sense.

Even the fleet companies are stopping using main dealers due to the costs if anything is needed outside the discounted servicing. Oh you need wipers, 4 new tyres, and your brakes are shot. Well we can't let it leave here like that now please bend over.