Vulcan XH558

[gazza57]

Yes, a different tune alright and had we listened to the likes of you Ben by 1945 the tune would have had German lyrics.

[gazza57]

Ben you miss the point entirely.
Most of us like the vulcan not because it could rain nuclear death on the poor soviets ( the soviets.????. you remember them ? they're the ones who were led by a nasty man called Josef Stalin, he had a rather tiresome habit of murdering people who he distrusted or locking them up in the gulags).
Most of us like the vulcan because it exemplifies our engineering heritage and expertise, four rolls royce olympus engines and immense power, the fact is a nuclear device could be dropped by a light aircraft, the vulcan was a fast means of delivering the weapon it was undoubtedly a deterrent, russian Tupolev Bear aircraft ventured often into our airspace just to see how long it would take our EE lightning interceptors to arrive. Why do think that is then? not the actions of a peaceful power, same goes for soviets submarines who also could deliver nuclear weapons.
The fact is they were never used, and I think I can say most of us are agreed that is a good thing.

You seem to suggest that the poor soviets led in the 60's by Kruschev and later Brezhnev are simply misunderstood leaders of a poor nation who had no designs on taking territory from the west?
Berlin Wall, East Germany, starving people queueing all day for a loaf of bread, Albania,Hungary 1956 Czechoslovakia 1968.?? ring any bells?

Can I respectfully suggest Ben, that you go and avail yourself of some books on European history? the period from 1933 to 1945 is especially relevant.
Winston Churchill warned the government of Germany's intentions here only to be dismissed as a war mongering crackpot by people with sentiments much like your own.
Chamberlain's piece of paper "peace in our time" whilst Austria had been annexed, the northern part of Czechoslovakia reclaimed for the Sudeten germans by Hitler and then the government turning it's back on the Czechs when Hitler took the rest of Czechoslovakia.
chamberlain left the government ridiculed and derided as naive, much like yourself.
I've heard countless people talk about how dreadful Dresden and cologne were, the firestorm, do they mention Coventry? Birmingham ? Bristol? strangely no.
Some brainless idiots thought it would be cool to pour paint over Arthur Harris's statue and label him a murderer for masterminding our bomber offensive during World War 2 over Germany of course conveniently ignoring the fact that the Luftwaffe mounted 176 consecutive nights of bombing on London during the Blitz in 1940?
Politics are much like the schoolyard bully, you don't need to bully others, but what you do need to do is show that you'll defend yourself if required to do so, when you fail to do so, you invite the bully to go further, just as Hitler did.
It is widely known nothing swayed Hitler more in his decision to invade England than an address by the Balliol College Union that it was not willing to fight for King and Country, a refusal to fight from those most priveleged and those assumed to be the intellectual elite in those days

As a nation, we always have to watch our backs, people aren't always what they seem, Hitler did a deal with the Soviets whilst all along his plan for Russia was total destruction, who could have fortold the falklands war? perhaps you would have left the Falkland Islanders to Argentina?
It is naive to label the vulcan a bringer of nuclear death , it is people who decide to drop nuclear weapons, but commonly the threat of mutually assured destruction between us and the soviets helped to maintain the peace both you and I enjoy.

Gazza57

[sharalaxy]

Ben you miss the point entirely.
Most of us like the vulcan not because it could rain nuclear death on the poor soviets ( the soviets.????. you remember them ? they're the ones who were led by a nasty man called Josef Stalin, he had a rather tiresome habit of murdering people who he distrusted or locking them up in the gulags).
Most of us like the vulcan because it exemplifies our engineering heritage and expertise, four rolls royce olympus engines and immense power, the fact is a nuclear device could be dropped by a light aircraft, the vulcan was a fast means of delivering the weapon it was undoubtedly a deterrent, russian Tupolev Bear aircraft ventured often into our airspace just to see how long it would take our EE lightning interceptors to arrive. Why do think that is then? not the actions of a peaceful power, same goes for soviets submarines who also could deliver nuclear weapons.
The fact is they were never used, and I think I can say most of us are agreed that is a good thing.

You seem to suggest that the poor soviets led in the 60's by Kruschev and later Brehzsnev are simply misunderstood leaders of a poor nation who had no designs on taking territory from the west?
Berlin Wall, East Germany, starving people queueing all day for a loaf of bread, Albania,Hungary 1956 Czechoslovakia 1968.?? ring any bells?

Can I respectfully suggest Ben, that you go and avail yourself of some books on European history? the period from 1933 to 1945 is especially relevant.
Winston Churchill warned the government of Germany's intentions here only to be dismissed as a war mongering crackpot by people with sentiments much like your own.
Chamberlain's piece of paper "peace in our time" whilst Austria had been annexed, the northern part of Czechoslovakia reclaimed for the Sudeten germans by Hitler and then the government turning it's back on the Czechs when Hitler took the rest of Czechoslovakia.
chamberlain left the government ridiculed and derided as naive, much like yourself.
I've heard countless people talk about how dreadful Dresden and cologne were, the firestorm, do they mention Coventry? Birmingham ? Bristol? strangely no.
Some brainless idiots thought it would be cool to pour paint over Arthur Harris's statue and label him a murderer for masterminding our bomber offensive during World War 2 over Germany of course conveniently ignoring the fact that the Luftwaffe mounted 176 consecutive nights of bombing on London during the Blitz in 1940?
Politics are much like the schoolyard bully, you don't need to bully others, but what you do need to do is show that you'll defend yourself if required to do so, when you fail to do so, you invite the bully to go further, just as Hitler did.
It is widely known nothing swayed Hitler more in his decision to invade England than an address by the Balliol College Union that it was not willing to fight for King and Country, a refusal to fight from those most priveleged and those assumed to be the intellectual elite in those days

As a nation, we always have to watch our backs, people aren't always what they seem, Hitler did a deal with the Soviets whilst all along his plan for Russia was total destruction, who could have fortold the falklands war? perhaps you would have left the Falkland Islanders to Argentina?
It is naive to label the vulcan a bringer of nuclear death , it is people who decide to drop nuclear weapons, but commonly the threat of mutually assured destruction between us and the soviets helped to maintain the peace both you and I enjoy.

Gazza57

What a fantastic reply very very well put together,

[andy e]

I am reading a book at the moment called Phoenix Squadron about a mission the ark royal undertook in the seventies,in the first chapter there is a description of a incident that took place in the med sea between the ark and a russian guided missile destroyer, the russian had been harrassing the ark for some days, but on this night while the aircraft carrier was launching aircraft, the russian cut it too fine and the ark collided with the destroyer. this was the fault of the russian captain who lost two members of his crew. The point i am trying to make is that the russians under Leonid Brezhnev (1964-1982) were sort of hell bent on european dominance and they wanted to know what the western defences consisted of, thus the harrasment of western surface ships, overflights of nato airspace by tupolev tu-95 bombers.In reply to these acts we needed to develop new aircraft ie:- lightning, victor, vulcan, valiant, buccaneer, this was in the era after the second world war when skills were scarce. the vulcan was designed in the 40s/50s to fulfill the role of a m.a.d. bomber if the victor had been preserved in flying condition it would hold the same reverence, as would the e.e lightning and probably the buccaneer ,It is british engineering at its best and that is why it is held in such high esteem,but maybe i'm biased, she is based 18 miles from my house, and i have sat in the cockpit of a vulcan and crawled in to the air intake to look at those huge engines, so that is my view on the topic further discussion is invited

[andy e]

you can now book vulcan hangar tours,go to the vulcan website http://www.vulcantothesky.org/appearances.html and for a tenner you can tour the vulcan, apart from the cockpit due to explosives in the ejector seats

[Eshrules]

I've come back from spending the week in Crasherville and had the (pleasure?) of visiting newark's air museum (http://www.newarkairmuseum.org/).

I'm still astounded by the size of this plane (I saw XM594)

[andy e]

going to robin hood airport tomorrow to look around the vulcan, o/h thinks i'm mad

[Crasher]

I've come back from spending the week in Crasherville

And what is your excuse for not visiting moi?

[Eshrules]

And what is your excuse for not visiting moi?

Well, there's this thing about meeting your idol....

But seriously, wasn't sure you'd want two angry bald headed mancs disturbing your peace! I'll stick it on my itinerary next time

[Crasher]

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/f...st-daring-raid

Watch this and then get your cards out and go to http://www.vulcantothesky.org/