RESOLVED: A6 Rear light cluster ( 07)

[gazza57]

Update on the rear light issue with regard to condensation, the dealer has agreed to change the lights for LED ones but they are only willing to cover the original cost of £99.82 per side, the LED ones are £146.35 per side which means I have to pay £130 (the difference between the normal reflector and it's LED counterpart) , in addition I have to have the software amended to LED lights which is a further £70 (30 mins labour) making a total of £200 inc VAT but they will only carry this out once I can show them pictures of the condensation in the reflector, I did have this last week but it has since cleared.

I am waiting for it to appear again and when it does I shall take the photos and the modification will be carried out.


Gazza57

[gazza57]

JimC64 & all,

An update on the rear light cluster condensation debacle, it now transpires that only Avants were fitted with LED lights and as mine is a saloon there is no alternative.
That I can accept but now despite changing the lights last march we again have the old chestnut that lights swimming in condensation is normal.

I have to say I am astonished that anyone would feel that to have a rear light fitting which has 3mm of water slooshing around inside is normal???

By what engineering standard is it normal to have a light fitting full of water?

"They advise this level of condensation is acceptable and does not need any kind of countermeasure"
So it would appear that 3mm of water slooshing around in the rear reflectors like some sort auto water feature is acceptable...... I think not.
It would appear that they have rewritten the laws of physics or found some special conducting material which is not affected by the exposure of same to a moisture laden atmosphere, can you see how ridiculous such a statement is and the disrepute to which such a statement will inevitably bring upon those who expound such utter nonsense?

"They also advise the fitting of LED lights would not cure the condensation"
Again the laws of physics appear to have been ignored, the basic premise by which condensation forms is a gradient of temperature between two surfaces, the greater the gradient of temperature the more condensation will occur once moist air at the higher temperature meets a cooler surface. A good example is your car windscreen, switch on demist, the temp gradient between the warm air and the cold surface is replaced by the application of a warm layer of air and hence the condensation disappears.
Now the rear lights in standard form consist of several 21Watt/5 Watt Stop Tail lights which typically draw 1.75A each at 12V the equivalent LED lights are of typically between 10-15mA which is 117 times lower power, lower power emits less heat less heat results in a shallower temperature gradient which itself precludes the forming of condensation.
What is suggested is that a cold light source such as that found inside LED lights either produces as much heat as a filament lamp despite using less than 0.0008 of the power (clearly not possible) or that by some magical physical phenomenon known only to a select few that this condensation will magically appear inside the LED lamps also despite the laws of physics suggesting otherwise.

I have decided I've had enough and I have walked away, I have been offered yet another replacement set but what's the point? there is an inherent design flaw here which allows the moist atmosphere to condense on a hot surface and replacing them with another badly designed set merely repeats the problem.
Needless to say after more than 20 years I fear this will be my last Audi

Gazza57

[Akash]

Not read the whole thread but in my own experience, I've had 2 A6 C6 personally and several as a loan car when mine has been in for repair/service etc
Every single one of them had the condensation issue.

In terms of LED vs normal bulb, the A6 c6 Saloon DOES have the LED option - mine was factory in my Le mans spec. It's possible it's part of the lighting/visibility pack or maybe just the le mans pack?
Either way, it is a factory option on the saloons however, only the brake light in the cluster is LED...the rest are normal bulbs.

My first A6, I had normal clusters which were replaced 4-5 times under warranty before they gave me the usual excuse that it will keep happening.
This one has had 2 replacements from memory and the most recent ones have the same issue.

To be honest, it's not causing me any issues apart from looking badly and that reflects on Audi, not me so I'll leave it. What I have had an issue with is the right cluster bulb holder went a month ago with random bulb failures every few minutes from cold start. Whether this was indirectly caused by the condensation - who knows.

If I feel like it, I may drill the holes as suggested and see if that remedies it but for now, a bulb holder fixed the issue and condensation can come and go as it pleases.

[JimC64]

Gazza - thanks for posting this up mate.

I feel your pain, I really do.........Its the only point that lets my car down and I feel I can do almost nothing about it!!

Like you I've had, I dunno, around 7 sets replaced under warranty and all have went the same........really annoying!!!

After several attempts in recent times not only is the condensation issue back, it's probably worse......have to laugh or I'll cry.

I'm hoping to get them out again, look out the hairdryer etc and dry them once more.............perhaps I'll try Gup's suggestion and drill a few holes to see where that gets me?
I don't really have much to lose.
Never ever had to do this on my Vauxhall / Ford / VW / Renault / Saab / Jaguar???

I love my Audi, love the brand and the experience in general but this really leaves a sour taste in the mouth for sure.
Perhaps instead of complaining we should look to group together and try to bring it to the attention of someone who could make things happen, such as a consumer programme that highlights poor products / services etc.

I really can't believe that Audi have got away with this for so long and continually tell people "Its NORMAL" and expect that to be the end of it.

Rant over....

[gazza57]

Trouble is Jim,
This is always the way out chosen, you can present the strongest case and quote the physics of condensation but the stock answer is always what THEY think and often it has nothing to do with the reality just the notion that to deny it is a problem makes it go away.

I have had my fill of Audi, enough to last me a lifetime, nothing on this planet can convince me that having a tail light full of water is normal ...end of story.

I had a similar situation a couple of years ago with my earlier A6, it had the concert radio which had a volume problem, the problem as with this one was being reported all over the place, the response was always that you were the first person they'd had, yeah right ok.

Later I managed to prove that the fault lay with faulty software flashed into the sets at the factory, the response I got? it's not covered sir, £250 for a new one??
Found a russian website which had investigated and identified the fault, I asked them to look at the site.. the response we don't recognise any other websites sir, well you wouldn't when they know more about your product than you do.

Upshot was I ended up paying £80 to a third party to get the faulty software removed and new modified software flashed into the set and hey presto problem gone never to return , their response was to tell me that as an unauthorised person had tampered with the radio then any warranty if in force would be invalidated, I politely told them it was well out of warranty and that I was happy that I had managed to prove the fault had been there the entire life of the radio and anyway I consider the fact that they haven't touched it as a bonus!!!!!

If I could sum up Audis I would do so thus:

The cars are magnificent... look wonderful drive equally as good...after sales service cheap and half baked , even the approved used Audis have guarantees which in my opinion are not worth toilet roll.

Gazza57

[toofunkyhouse]

I have found Audi's after sales great. They paid for a new P Zero Rosso on my spare wheel when I found the one in the boot was damaged. Then they replaced the clutch and slave cylinder on the warranty. I guess you get good and bad dealers with all brands.


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[toofunkyhouse]

You can buy aftermarket led rears for the Pre facelift saloon.


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[toofunkyhouse]

Back Rear Tail Lights for Audi A6 (saloon, 04-08), in red-black, with LED pair | eBay


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[Guest 2]

You can buy aftermarket led rears for the Pre facelift saloon.


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Audi also do LED rears for the pre facelift saloon

[gazza57]

I agree too funky,
This is not a broad criticism of all Audi dealers, I don't particularly like Audi Uk much, but I have had really good service from Camberley Audi, however my experience is from somewhere else which I see no point in mentioning specifically.

Gazza57