Oil colour

[d@ve]

Car is a 1.9 TDi 130.

I just checked the engine oil and its a black dirty colour, not the clear brown I would have thought it would be having just had a service.

Looking through the manual it mentions a long life oil, could it be this so the dealer didn't need to change it, is there a way to tell?

[adamss24]

Car is a 1.9 TDi 130.

I just checked the engine oil and its a black dirty colour, not the clear brown I would have thought it would be having just had a service.

Looking through the manual it mentions a long life oil, could it be this so the dealer didn't need to change it, is there a way to tell?

Diesel engines put a lot of soot into the oil and these oils are designed to cope with it and still offer adequate protection for the engines components. Long life engine oils are synthetic and offer even greather protection than mineral oils or synthethic blends( semy synthetics !) as they resist breakdown, flow better in cold wheather and have improved additives packages that are designed to acctivate after 3-4000 miles to reduce engine wear ! Rule of thumb: mineral oils, replace after 2500-3000 miles, semy synth. replace every 4500-5000 miles and fully synthethic replace after 9500-10000 miles. The Mobil 1 fully synthethic oil has been tested successfully on a petrol car and offered adequate protection even at 18000 miles. Diesel engines place more strain on the oils so its wise to replace under 13-15K miles or 1 year, wich ever comes first ! Your car has a PD engine and such its needs an VW PD approved oil as its even more demanding on the oil. The camshaft lobes acctuates the PD injectors and they wear quickly if improper oil spec is used so contact the dealer for corect spec/oils.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Diesel engines put a lot of soot into the oil and these oils are designed to cope with it and still offer adequate protection for the engines components.

Very true, and it surprises many people, when they see their "new" oil looking very black after a week or so!

Long life engine oils are synthetic

Fully synthetic, to be pedantic

and have improved additives packages that are designed to acctivate after 3-4000 miles

What a load of tosh. All fully synthetic oils, LongLife or not, have "improved" additives packages - which will start to "work" from the moment you fire up the engine immediately after the oil change.

Rule of thumb: mineral oils, replace after 2500-3000 miles, semy synth. replace every 4500-5000 miles and fully synthethic replace after 9500-10000 miles.

Old-skool advice, for old-skool cars. Not really appropriate here, as modern Audi turbo-diesels should only be run on fully synthetic oils, and the oil must comply with the VW specification as listed in the owners manual.

The Mobil 1 fully synthethic oil has been tested successfully on a petrol car and offered adequate protection even at 18000 miles.

Marketing hype/crap - Mobil 1 has only "officially" been tested on relatively old and/or easy generic specification standards, such as API SL/CF, and the very old Mercedes-Benz standard MB 229.1 (which is achievable by most semi-synthetics, and even some basic mineral oils). Mobil 1 makes so-called "claims" that their oil meets certain VW, MB, GM, BMW and Porsche standards, even some LongLife standards, but Mobil 1 has NEVER been officially tested to actually prove it can actually meet those manufacturer standards.

If your owners manual only states a VW standard for engine oil, then do NOT use Mobil 1, unless you wish to invalidate your warranty. VW/Audi will perform an oil sample for engine related warranty claims, and will reject any warranty claims when non-specified oil has been used. HonestJohn has had repeated concerns from readers on this very point.

Diesel engines place more strain on the oils

And diesel specific oils are acutally designed to cope with this increased strain.

so its wise to replace under 13-15K miles or 1 year, wich ever comes first !

Horses and courses - if you have the proper spec LongLife oil, and your useage is moderate, then the upto two-year LongLife schedule is acceptable.

Your car has a PD engine and such its needs an VW PD approved oil as its even more demanding on the oil. The camshaft lobes acctuates the PD injectors and they wear quickly if improper oil spec is used so contact the dealer for corect spec/oils.

VW 505.01 for fixed interval (upto one year) maintenance schedules,
VW 506.01 for LongLife (upto two years) variable interval servicing

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Car is a 1.9 TDi 130.

I just checked the engine oil and its a black dirty colour, not the clear brown I would have thought it would be having just had a service.

Looking through the manual it mentions a long life oil, could it be this so the dealer didn't need to change it, is there a way to tell?

If your car had a service, the engine oil would most definately have been changed. Look on your invoice - it should clearly itemise all parts fitted, including the actual quantity, in litres of engine oil used.

[auiron]

Going back a bit, they sold oil that could be used for flushing out and cleaning the engine before the new oil was added.
Some still change their oil every 5,000 miles and run for a short time with cheap oil before the main change. Doing this makes certain your oil starts off very clean.
Unfortunately, in some ways, these old fashioned methods seem to have been forgotten because oils have become so advanced - so we're told anyway.
Once there were only two oils, so, complicated has become very expensive.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Going back a bit, they sold oil that could be used for flushing out and cleaning the engine before the new oil was added.

Mercedes still do offer a flush as part of their service!

Some still change their oil every 5,000 miles and run for a short time with cheap oil before the main change. Doing this makes certain your oil starts off very clean.

Yes, but dirty oil doesnt mean ******* oil; it simply means that the additives are doing their job; by holding the dirty bits in suspension.

Unfortunately, in some ways, these old fashioned methods seem to have been forgotten because oils have become so advanced - so we're told anyway.

With todays modern advanced oils; along with decent filters; longer intervals between oil changes is perfectly satisfactory.

Once there were only two oils, so, complicated has become very expensive.

What; new and used

[auiron]

With todays modern advanced oils; along with decent filters; longer intervals between oil changes is perfectly satisfactory.



What; new and used [/quote]


Hi, as one is only in the New Testament days I have produced a link known as the BIBLE, a bit about Audi Sludge that Audi have been known for producing in less well looked after engines. By the way, Duckhams Q20/50 was the oil to use and another, name escapes me, for up market cars. Cost about 2/6d a gallon ( 12.5p ).

http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html

[adamss24]

Very true, and it surprises many people, when they see their "new" oil looking very black after a week or so!



Fully synthetic, to be pedantic



What a load of tosh. All fully synthetic oils, LongLife or not, have "improved" additives packages - which will start to "work" from the moment you fire up the engine immediately after the oil change.



Old-skool advice, for old-skool cars. Not really appropriate here, as modern Audi turbo-diesels should only be run on fully synthetic oils, and the oil must comply with the VW specification as listed in the owners manual.



Marketing hype/crap - Mobil 1 has only "officially" been tested on relatively old and/or easy generic specification standards, such as API SL/CF, and the very old Mercedes-Benz standard MB 229.1 (which is achievable by most semi-synthetics, and even some basic mineral oils). Mobil 1 makes so-called "claims" that their oil meets certain VW, MB, GM, BMW and Porsche standards, even some LongLife standards, but Mobil 1 has NEVER been officially tested to actually prove it can actually meet those manufacturer standards.

If your owners manual only states a VW standard for engine oil, then do NOT use Mobil 1, unless you wish to invalidate your warranty. VW/Audi will perform an oil sample for engine related warranty claims, and will reject any warranty claims when non-specified oil has been used. HonestJohn has had repeated concerns from readers on this very point.



And diesel specific oils are acutally designed to cope with this increased strain.



Horses and courses - if you have the proper spec LongLife oil, and your useage is moderate, then the upto two-year LongLife schedule is acceptable.



VW 505.01 for fixed interval (upto one year) maintenance schedules,
VW 506.01 for LongLife (upto two years) variable interval servicing

Mate, you should read the specs on the Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel and you will see that its a better option than the standard fixed or extended interval the vw dealer is using on older engines equiped with VE rotary pumps and i was talking of NON PD OIL, because, as you might know , Mobil 1 is not a PD certified oil ! I was telling about a PETROL CAR that has no PD INJECTORS and the oil was FULLY SYNTHETIC and still ofered adeqwate protection at 18000 miles when the oil was replaced and tested by a reputable Yankee laboratory. You wanna keep an synthethic oil for up to 2 years in an engine, please DO SO but DO NOT ADVISE others because its pushing it a bit. Also i used to have a old shape a6 that i used to travel a lot in Europe with and while on a trip in Spain, the gearbox broke and went in Limp Mode and the car made the 2000km trip with the engine running at well over 4000 rpm and thats on FULLY SYN. MOBIL 1 Turbo Diesel oil. When i got back to England, i pulled the head and the camshaft was in perfect condition and the cross-hatch pattern was still visible on the piston bores at 154000 miles. I did replace the turbocharger-JUST IN CASE-even though the car was pulling as it should and did not smoke at all. Remember that in Callais when i was waiting to board the train, the turbocharger was glowing red hot- i still have a picture on my mobile fone to prove ! Sold the car to a friend of mine and its now on 280 K miles on ORIGINAL head and engine and still pulling strong ! Also if you read the posts on tdiclub, most of the additives in an synthetic oil acctivate after 3000-5000 miles and the engine has LESS wear after 3k than when running on fresh changed oil. The synthethics are better flowing than blends ,break down slower than mineral and semy synthetic oils ! Also my dad its a panel beater and i have been in the cars since know myself, hence the know how and i am a handy carpenter who is fed up with so called mechanics that throw new parts at an engine in the hope it will cure a given problem. Where i am camming from a mechanic is a mechanic and there is no such thing as an engineer. Ewerione KNOWS to turn a wrench in Europe !!! Latelly i read posts on the american forums just because they think from time to time compared with peoples overhere ! I do not make my living as an GREASE MONKEY just try to give honest advice to people who know how to read and understand me english. P.S.: please escuse my spelling as my first language is not the english and dont have the time to rethink all the frases to put them right !

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Hi, as one is only in the New Testament days I have produced a link known as the BIBLE, a bit about Audi Sludge that Audi have been known for producing in less well looked after engines. By the way, Duckhams Q20/50 was the oil to use and another, name escapes me, for up market cars. Cost about 2/6d a gallon ( 12.5p ).

http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html

Yes, I am very very familiar with the "Bibles" produced by Chris Longhurst. However, as with the religious bibles, there are many differences between them - different interpretations, different translations, different opinions, different teachings, etc, etc, etc.

There are however, a number of errors or ommissions in his bible, with particular reference to the Audi Sludge bit - the VW standard for 1.8 turbo engines is 502.01, or 503.01, and ONLY fully synthetic oils will meet these requirements.

It is well known throughout the global motor industry, that turbo-charged engines place much much higher demands on their lubrication systems. The specific VW Audi 1.8T sludge problems originated in the US and Canada, mainly because they were ill-advised on the specific lubrication requirements of these turbo engines (after all, what other mainstream cars with turbos did they have). Instead of following the manufacturers specific requirements on the propper engine oil, they reverted to their old-skool ways of thinking, by using el-cheapo mineral oil, but changing it at two or three times sooner than the schedule. These cheapo mineral oils cannot cope with the very high temperatures produced in the bearings of turbos, hence rapidly broke down, causing the black sludge.

This was never really an issue (appart from very isolated cases, from mechanically ignorant people) in the UK and Germany, where most owners will take notice and use the propper spec oil.

Your reference to the Duckhams Q20W50 was from the 1960s and early 1970s. The Duckhams was joined by the original Castrol GTX 20W50 as the two "reference" engine oils of the period. Both are still available today, but both are woefully inadequate for engines manufacturered in the last 20 or so years!

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Mate, you should read the specs on the Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel

I have, and I'm reading them again right now. Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel has not achieved any VW engine oil specification standard. This is particularly important, as we are afterall, having a discussion in a VW Audi forum.

and you will see that its a better option than the standard fixed or extended interval the vw dealer is using on older engines equiped with VE rotary pumps

No it is NOT a better oil - Mobil 1 has no VW approval.

and i was talking of NON PD OIL, because, as you might know , Mobil 1 is not a PD certified oil !

You are quite right - Mobil 1 has no PD certification, nor any other VW certification.

I was telling about a PETROL CAR that has no PD INJECTORS and the oil was FULLY SYNTHETIC and still ofered adeqwate protection at 18000 miles when the oil was replaced and tested by a reputable Yankee laboratory.

Quote your source then. And quote the exact make and model of the car in question, along with the correct manufacturers specification for engine oil.

You wanna keep an synthethic oil for up to 2 years in an engine, please DO SO but DO NOT ADVISE others because its pushing it a bit.

Erm, personally, I would not keep a generic fully synthetic oil, nor a LongLife specific fully synthetic oil in my car for two years. But that is based on my driving style, vehicle useage, the fact that I buy my oil in bulk, and the fact that I am capable of changing my oil myself. It is purely a personal preferance.

There is now plenty of valuble evidence, from the likes of Lex vehicle leasing, that LongLife oil changes can be perfectly satisfactory, and not cause accelerated engine wear. If any owner does hve concerns about LongLife oil change regime, then the next time their car does have an oil change, ask for a sample of the oil engine oil, and send it to the appropriate lubricants manufacture for a free oil analysis.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the LongLife oil change regime, provided you a/ use the exact specification of oil listed, b/ drive your car in the recommended manner for the LongLife regime, c/ regularly check your engine oil level with the dipstick and top it up to the maximuim level (don't wait for the DIS warning to tell you, because the level will be on the minimum), d/ don't take your car on track days, or generally thrash your car.

Also i used to have a old shape a6 that i used to travel a lot in Europe with and while on a trip in Spain, the gearbox broke and went in Limp Mode and the car made the 2000km trip with the engine running at well over 4000 rpm and thats on FULLY SYN. MOBIL 1 Turbo Diesel oil.

And that proves what?

When i got back to England, i pulled the head and the camshaft was in perfect condition and the cross-hatch pattern was still visible on the piston bores at 154000 miles. I did replace the turbocharger-JUST IN CASE-even though the car was pulling as it should and did not smoke at all.

Again, that proves what?

Remember that in Callais when i was waiting to board the train, the turbocharger was glowing red hot- i still have a picture on my mobile fone to prove !

A glowing red hot turbo charger is a perfectly normal visual thing to see - nothing extreme going on there (although it may be quite a surprise to some people).

Sold the car to a friend of mine and its now on 280 K miles on ORIGINAL head and engine and still pulling strong !

Again, proving what.

Also if you read the posts on tdiclub, most of the additives in an synthetic oil acctivate after 3000-5000 miles and the engine has LESS wear after 3k than when running on fresh changed oil.

I stand by my statement. Oil additives are NOT programmed to work after some kind of pre-determined delay of 3000-5000 miles or anything similar. It is however true that some of the additives only start to work when the oil reaches a certain temperature, or reaches a certain acidity or alkalinity level - but this is true of any engine oil, whether mineral, semi-synthetic, fully synthetic, or LongLife.

I'd like you to quote the scientific laboratory tests regarding the engine wear, as I have heard many old wives tales regarding non-linear engine wear, but none were scientifically proven.

The synthethics are better flowing than blends,

Not necessarily, a 0W monograde mineral oil will flow better than a 10W60 fully synthetic multigrade!

break down slower than mineral and semy synthetic oils !

That is generally true, although, it is usually the additive package, and not the base oil itself which breaks down. You could have a highly enhanced mineral oil with a complex (and expensive) additives pack, which would last much longer than a fully synthetic oil with a very poor, cheap and inadequate additives pack.

Also my dad its a panel beater and i have been in the cars since know myself, hence the know how and i am a handy carpenter who is fed up with so called mechanics that throw new parts at an engine in the hope it will cure a given problem.

So you have no formal motor vehicle qualifications, and your dad works on car bodies, not car mechanical components. That doesn't really bode well regarding the integrity of any advice you may give to others. You really should make it clear regarding your status of motor vehicle qualifications.

I do accept your point though, regarding mechanics who try to simply change one part after the next to solve a problem. Franchised dealers these days rarely use or employ fully qualified motor vehicle mechanics or technicians, instead, they get a school leaver and send them on their own in-house training courses, which are quite frankly, woefully inadequate.

Where i am camming from a mechanic is a mechanic and there is no such thing as an engineer. Ewerione KNOWS to turn a wrench in Europe !!

Hmmph - that kind of statement can open many cans of worms. Just because you "know how to turn a wrench" - it certainly does not make you a competant vehicle mechanic. Indeed, I can gleefully swing a 14lb sledge hammer - but that means what exactly????

Latelly i read posts on the american forums just because they think from time to time compared with peoples overhere !

Yes, but the Americans have a very different mind-set to Western Europeans, and their ways are not necessarily the "correct" ways!

I do not make my living as an GREASE MONKEY just try to give honest advice to people who know how to read and understand me english.

As I said earlier, you should make it more obvious that you are not a qualified mechanic/technician - perhaps you should amend your signature or Avatar block!

I personally make no living from the motor trade anymore. I am simply a retired qualified motor vehicle technician, with all my qualifications coming from independant sources rather than manufacurer sponsored schemes. My advice is free, and fully impartial, and should be taken without any kind of warranty or endorsement (but I would hope that readers recognise the fact that I do have appropriate qualifications). If anyone would wish to buy me beer/wine/chocolate as a result of my advice on these forum, then it would be gladly received though.

P.S.: please escuse my spelling as my first language is not the english and dont have the time to rethink all the frases to put them right !

No problem, you seem to be doing OK. What is your first language then, if you don't mind me asking?

Regards