Another front end clunk/rattle post....

[andy_Coster]

Hi all,

The car is 2003 Passat B5.5, 1.9tdi with 265k miles.

So I've had numerous goes at finding this now, and it's been to a garage for diagnostic twice too. Failed so far!

The noise is a very loose metallic jangling, very loud, sounds like something should be hanging off. Often, it doesn't start until you got a small bump with the front off side wheel, after which it rattles hugely over the slightest of undulations. Steering makes no difference, but touch the brakes the slightest amount and it's gone. Release the brakes, it's back. Pretty certain it's front off side only.
I pulled the brakes to pieces and found a seized guide pin and the pads worn very unevenly as a result. So it's had new guides, sleeves and pads. I also fitted new anti-rattle springs to both sides at the same time. Still the same noise. I've been all over every suspension joint (there's lots!!!) with a bar and can't find any play. Droplink has been off, appears fine, as does ARB bush. A garage diagnosed a worn caliper carrier allowing the pads to float a little laterally. I swapped for brand new this morning. No change.

What's odd is in the photos. The side with the copper grease (plastered on by this garage...) Is the noisy side. Note how compared to the dry, good side, the pads don't seem to be held into the carrier very tight. But given that I've swapped carrier, guides, sleeves and pads, and fitted brand new anti rattle springs, what could cause that clearance??? Alternatively, it's normal and I'm looking in the wrong place for the noise!!
brake1.jpg

brake2.jpg
I'm thinking that the noise is the pads able to rattle in the carrier, given that the noise disappears the second the brakes are touched and comes straight back on releasing them. There's no clunk type noise on applying brakes, like when pads can move slightly up and down.

It's worth noting that the pads I fitted this time are Bosch, replacing Pagid ones last time and both had this noise issue. The new pads made no difference to the noise.

I'd originally posted over on VWVortex, where a suggestion of top suspension mount was made. I'm now unable to reply to those guys, as my account has stopped working an no reply for their forum admin yet, which is a shame as they were very helpful!! Apparently the strut top mount can wear and allow the damper rod to rattle about in the top of the mount. I took the leg off the car (didn't have my spring compressors to hand, so couldn't remove the mount) but it all appeared very tight, no play at all, no fretting marks or anything of that nature. So wonder if that's a non-starter, unless the play could be so great as to cause the loud noise, but undetectable with the leg in my hands?!

strut1.jpg

strut2.jpg

If anyone has any pointers, that'd be great. The car is my Dad's, and he's thinking of getting rid (probably scrap!) because of this issue. I've looked after the car for years and years, and I don't want to see it die!

Thanks!!

[arman123]

are you sure you have the correct pads fitted?

[arman123]

try pushing out the spring on the back of the pads to get a better fit or just go with genuine pads

[andy_Coster]

Pretty sure they are correct insomuch as OE part numbers cross reference with Bosch ones. Also, the fit issue only appears to be on the one side. But I can't see what could cause the difference in clearance between sides, given the new parts fitted.

Ref the spring on the back, it's only fitted to the rear pad that clips into piston, however the front pads appears lose!

Thanks both!

[arman123]

the caliper carrier you replaced is on the side were the noise is?

did you buy the correct caliper carrier?

[andy_Coster]

the caliper carrier you replaced is on the side were the noise is?

did you buy the correct caliper carrier?

Yes, replaced on the noisy side in an attempt to remedy the noise/possible lose pads. I compared to the old carrier, appeared exact match- was brand new (although not genuine) and listed for exact model. Noise unchanged, not even change in pitch or frequency etc between original and new carrier :/

It looks almost as if the caliper on the noisy side is sitting too far 'out', so it's not holding the pads firmly towards the 'inside', or towards the center of the wheel, if that makes sense. I've tried to annotate photo, little blue lines are where I think there shouldn't be a gap. But what could cause that, with new carrier, new guides and sleeves? Incidentally, it stops just fine. No pull, no judder, no clunk on applying brakes. Just this lose, rattly metallic jangle over bumps and rough road...

brake1_LI.jpg

Do you think there's any mileage in the strut top mount? The suggestion was that when you brake, it's loaded up laterally and takes any play out, but I see now play at all. Also, I don't have to brake hard, not even enough to load the strut- the slightest covering of the pedal does it, which is why I'm focusing on pads.

[arman123]

did the old carrier have those gaps?

were did you get the carrier from?

if this was me i will clean and fit the old carrier back as you know thats 100% genuine part and fit genuine front pads

what your engine code?

[arman123]

did you match all the new parts to your PR codes?

[andy_Coster]

The new carrier is an eBay job. I replaced the other side a year or so ago due to a stripped thread, from same manufacturer and that was fine. Yes, the old carrier had the gaps too. The new one has made literally no difference. And given that the Pagid and Bosch pads both made the noise (presuming this is actually brake pad noise- I know it's impossible to diagnose without hearing!!) I'd kind of discounted it being the pads themselves. The noise started when the Pagids were like 2/3 worn, and remained unchanged with the Bosch. I'm confused

[justinpayne]

Use a metal punch to put a divot in those edge mounting ears of the pads to expand them a little bit.