Hot Relay 449

[verneuil]

Hi everyone,
new to the forum although I have been 'lurking' and picking stuff up for some time.

I have a question about Relay 449 which lives in the J519 power distribution box under the steering wheel, slot KL30. B4 on the Drawing.
it's a 30amp relay and is getting hot when either the ignition is turned on, I know this because I noticed it when running a VCDS Scan.
It also gets hot when the car is driven i.e engine running. Stone cold when the car is first started.
I pulled the relay and the only thing that appears to not work anymore is the courtesy light. Bit sticky to get out but no corrosion and we've had the car since new and nothing has been added or taken away.

From the wiring diagram I have it appears to feed from Battery Live terminal 30 via fuse 15 but other research suggests it's a switched live Terminal15.
I assume it's not supposed to be hot and was wondering if anybody had any ideas what it does does and why it might be getting so hot?
It must be doing something other than the interior lighting if it's a 30 amp relay? VAG Current Flow diagrams are a new thing for me. They are either elegant or the work of the Devil. I'm still trying to decide which!! All sorts of electrical stuff going on so I'm going to have to come to terms with them I guess.

Car is an A3 2.0 FSi 2004 AXW 8P1 UK Model no Turbo. Pulls like a train and ABS works in spite of what the Scan says. No Engine light but the traction control light won't go away which is where all this started. (Amber triangle light) Battery is a little low after running multiple scans

Any thoughts or ideas greatly appreciated. Just waiting for someone to tell me it's normal!!
I've included the last scan in case anyone can spot something in there. As you can see there is plenty to be going on with.
Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Friday,29,May,2020,13:31:02:45305
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 8.1 x64
VCDS Version: 20.4.0.1 (x64)  HEX-V2 CB: 0.4508.4
Data version: 20200331 DS317.0
www.Ross-Tech.com




VIN: WAUZZZ8P64A*****   License Plate: *******




Chassis Type: 8P (1K0)
Scan: 01 03 08 09 15 16 17 19 25 42 44 46 47 52 56


VIN: WAUZZZ8P64A064818   Mileage: 178930km-111181miles


00-Steering Angle Sensor -- Status: OK 0000
01-Engine -- Status: Malfunction 1010
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: Malfunction 1010
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: Malfunction 0010
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
15-Airbags -- Status: Malfunction 0010
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: Malfunction 0010
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
44-Steering Assist -- Status: Malfunction 1010
46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
47-Sound System -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: Malfunction 0010
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: 06F-906-056-AXW.lbl
   Part No SW: 06F 906 056 BT    HW: Hardware No 
   Component: MED9.5.10       G00 5340  
   Revision: 00000000    Serial number: AUX7Z0C7FNK0B3
   Coding: 0000072
   Shop #: WSC 06435 000 00000
   VCID: 7CA1F33D6AE0687B0FA-8028


   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 06F 907 807 A
   Component: NOX  0308250111 004 3608
   06F907807A  NOX  0308250111 004 3608   


5 Faults Found:
17439 - Intake Manifold Tuning Valve (N316) 
            P1031 - 001 - Setpoint Not Reached - Intermittent
18104 - Powertrain Data Bus 
            P1696 - 002 - Implausible Message from Steering Column Controller - Intermittent
17924 - Intake Manifold Valve (N156) 
            P1516 - 004 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
17951 - Angle Sensor 1 for Throttle Actuator (G187) 
            P1543 - 002 - Signal too Small
17580 - Angle Sensor 2 for Throttle Actuator (G188) Signal too Low 
            P1172 - 002 - 
Readiness: 1010 0001


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 1K0-907-379-MK60-F.lbl
   Part No: 1K0 907 379 D
   Component: ESP FRONT MK60      0102  
   Coding: 0053894
   Shop #: WSC 06435 000 00000
   VCID: 33331801073E67039E0-8066


3 Faults Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module 
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
00778 - Steering Angle Sensor (G85) 
            003 - Mechanical Failure
01314 - Engine Control Module 
            013 - Check DTC Memory


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC        Labels: 8P0-820-043.lbl
   Part No SW: 8P0 820 043     HW: 8P0 820 043 
   Component: KlimavollautomatH11 0130  
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 698FBA691572EDD3E4C-803C


2 Faults Found:
01592 - Air Quality Sensor (G238) 
            010 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101010
                    Fault Priority: 3
                    Fault Frequency: 8
                    Reset counter: 149
                    Mileage: 178025 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2019.12.19
                    Time: 21:36:40


             Freeze Frame:
                    Temperature: 24.5∞C


01592 - Air Quality Sensor (G238) 
            007 - Short to Ground - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100111
                    Fault Priority: 3
                    Fault Frequency: 8
                    Reset counter: 149
                    Mileage: 178025 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2019.12.19
                    Time: 21:36:00


             Freeze Frame:
                    Temperature: 24.0∞C




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect.        Labels:. 8P0-907-279-23-H.lbl
   Part No SW: 8P0 907 279 A    HW: 8P0 907 279 A*
   Component: Bordnetz-SG 1.0 H29 0501  
   Revision: 00029000    Serial number: 00000000138663
   Coding: 018C4F00A0141000000000000000000000
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 3B2330212F6EAF43460-806E


   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 8P2 955 119 C  Labels: 1TX-955-119.CLB
   Component: Wischer WWS Audi350 0180  
   Coding: 16711696
   Shop #: WSC 00000  


3 Faults Found:
01800 - Light Switch (E1) 
            008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
01064 - Terminal 58d; Interior Dimming 
            012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit
01314 - Engine Control Module 
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 8P0-959-655-84.lbl
   Part No SW: 8P0 959 655 F    HW: 8P0 959 655 F
   Component: Airbag 8.4ED    H01 0130  
   Coding: 0011602
   Shop #: WSC 06435 000 00000
   VCID: 45D756D959AAE9B3204-8010


2 Faults Found:
01228 - Airbag Cut-Off Switch for Passenger Side (E224) 
            010 - Open or Short to Plus - MIL ON
01228 - Airbag Cut-Off Switch for Passenger Side (E224) 
            010 - Open or Short to Plus - MIL ON


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel        Labels: 8P0-953-549.lbl
   Part No SW: 8P0 953 549     HW: 8P0 953 549 
   Component: Lenks‰ulenmodul H09 0020  
   Coding: 0000042
   Shop #: WSC 06435 000 00000
   VCID: 7BA3F0216FEE6F43060-802E


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 8P0-920-xxx-17-MY7.lbl
   Part No SW: 8P0 920 980 J    HW: 8P0 920 980 J
   Component: KOMBIINSTR. VDO H25 0080  
   Revision: D06         Serial number: 2247CD06001118
   Coding: 0004403
   Shop #: WSC 01019 210 136528
   VCID: 3E2539353C7CBA6B61E-806A


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels:. 1K0-907-530-V1.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 530 B    HW: 1K0 907 951 
   Component: Gateway         H08 0090  
   Revision: 08          Serial number: 2400103723B0E3
   Coding: 3D0F0342070101
   Shop #: WSC 06435 000 00000
   VCID: 2615F155C4EC02AB09E-8072


4 Faults Found:
00470 - Company Comfort Databus in Single Wire 
            011 - Open Circuit
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01101011
                    Fault Priority: 3
                    Fault Frequency: 254
                    Reset counter: 122
                    Mileage: 178930 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2020.03.16
                    Time: 01:39:26


01314 - Engine Control Module 
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100100
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 6
                    Reset counter: 162
                    Mileage: 178930 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2020.04.09
                    Time: 00:01:44


01316 - ABS Control Module 
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100100
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 162
                    Mileage: 178930 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2020.04.09
                    Time: 00:01:44


01309 - Power Steering Control Module (J500) 
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100100
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 162
                    Mileage: 178930 km
                    Time Indication: 0




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer        Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-25.clb
   Part No SW: 8P0 920 980 J    HW: 8P0 920 980 J
   Component: KOMBIINSTR. VDO H25 0080  
   Revision: D06         Serial number: AUX7Z0C7FNK0B3
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 3E2539353C7CBA6B61E-806A


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver        Labels: 8P0-959-801-MIN1.lbl
   Part No: 8P0 959 801 A
   Component: Tuersteuerger.  H10 0010  
   Coding: 0000048
   Shop #: WSC 06435 000 00000
   VCID: 392F2A2925529D5354C-806C


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist        Labels: 1Kx-909-143-GEN1.clb
   Part No: 1K1 909 143 L
   Component: EPS_ZFLS Kl.6       0402  
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 33331801073E67039E0-8066


1 Fault Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module 
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Mileage: 8920 km
                    Temperature: 15.0∞C
                    Voltage: 12.10 V
                    Voltage: 11.90 V




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels: 8P0-959-433.lbl
   Part No: 8P0 959 433 
   Component:    KSG          H02 0040  
   Coding: 008800186D288505485AC63000
   Shop #: WSC 01019 210 175693
   VCID: 79AFEA2965D25D5314C-802C


   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1K0 951 605 C
   Component: LIN BACKUP HORN H05 1501


   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1K0 907 719 
   Component: Neigungssensor  002 0002


   Subsystem 3 - Part No: 8P0 951 177 
   Component: Innenraumueberw.H02 0010


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 47: Sound System        Labels: 8Px-035-382.lbl
   Part No SW: 8P3 035 382     HW: 8P3 035 382 
   Component: AB2 SUBWOOFERBOXH23 0100  
   Revision: 00001       Serial number: 10000001043808
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 70B9D70D36A81C1BA32-8024


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass.        Labels: 8P0-959-802-MIN1.lbl
   Part No: 8P0 959 802 A
   Component: Tuersteuerger.  H10 0010  
   Coding: 0000048
   Shop #: WSC 06435 000 00000
   VCID: 3A2D35252054964B5D6-806E


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio        Labels: 8P0-035-1xx-56.lbl
   Part No SW: 8P0 035 186     HW: 8P0 035 186 
   Component: concert II EU   H53 0060  
   Revision:      07S    Serial number: AUZ2Z3C1397642
   Coding: 0001001
   Shop #: WSC 06435 000 00000
   VCID: 6FBBD4712B9603E3BA8-803A


2 Faults Found:
01317 - Control Module in Instrument Cluster (J285) 
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100100
                    Fault Priority: 5
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Reset counter: 161
                    Time Indication: 15


             Freeze Frame:
                    Bin. Bits:       10


01299 - Diagnostic Interface for Data Bus (J533) 
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100100
                    Fault Priority: 5
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Reset counter: 161
                    Time Indication: 15




End----(Elapsed Time: 00:59, VBatt start/end: 11.7V/11.7V. VIgn 11.8V)-----

[jonathanfenton]

I mean some of those will be related to you pulling to relay surely. I’d be tempted to replace it and clear the faults and see what comes back. The single wire mode I found was a snapped wire in my drivers door loom. Ended up replacing the loom as a few had broken/frayed.

[verneuil]

Hi Jonathan, thanks for the prompt reply. Scan was before pulling the relay sadly. My instinct was to replace it but parts seem really difficult to get hold of at the moment. Main dealers are closed any recommended UK Suppliers?

A lot of the faults I think are mostly due to the Intermittent ECM No Signal/Communication. AirBag is because the passenger side AirBag is switched off. Lights probably because the switch is hanging out as the trim is off.
I'll check out the door loom as you suggest so thanks for that. Was the break in the Rubber Boot or in the door itself? Got just about every other piece of trim pulled out so why not the door card?!
I've been going around checking powers and grounds which is how I came to be under the dash. The 01314 code pops up in every block so my conclusion is that mostly the modules are moaning because the ECM is periodically going on holiday.
The 01 Engine codes all popped up between scans without the engine being run so don't know what that's about! The Vacuum actuator is working and throttle adaptation says ADP OK.
I'll try a new Relay when I can find one and report back. Just wish I knew what it is supposed to be doing!

[Crasher]

A lot goes through the line 30 relay so it can get hot and they are also very prone to going wrong. VAG seem to have struggled with relays since the late 80’s, they always seem to under rate them. If I was designing the architecture I would specify a 40A heavy duty unit, then again the bean counters would come along and veto it... bloody accountants!

[jonathanfenton]

The rubber pulls back between the a pillar and door.
TPS will sell you a relay, I’ve heard some are going trade only but I’ve not had an issue just saying you’re a cash customer.

[verneuil]

Thanks for that, I'll pull the boot back and see what I find. I'll call TPS tomorrow and see if they have emerged from Lock down yet and are prepared to sell me some bits.

I agree entirely Crasher. Everything seems designed to fail and way too much plastic for my taste. Don't start me on the Hose Clamps!!
I enjoy a puzzle but this is becoming the kind of thing that makes grown men cry and sheriffs turn in their badges.

Thanks for your input Guys

[Crasher]

And it is going to get a LOT worse as hybrid and fully electric take over. In a few years time I can see working on certain types of car being illegal unless you pass specific training courses... this will only come about AFTER a lot of people have been incinerated by electric cars being screwed around with and it isn’t a maybe, it WILL happen.

[verneuil]

Check out DiagnoseDan on youtube. Speciffcaly 'Could a HV Battery Kill You' Bit excitable but it's the shape of things to come!
I think this is the link.
Could a HV Battery kill you? - YouTube
There's one about Hybrid training too if you are still feeling optimistic after watching the first one.

[verneuil]

*Specifically