Help diagnosing a clutch issue please?

[Dony-Jam]

Hello everyone,

I'm hoping I can get some advice or help diagnosing whats wrong with my clutch, I think it's the release bearing but I'm not sure.

First my car is a 56 plate Passat b6 2.0 TDI Se, its covered around 130k

The first thing I noticed was a growling/rattle kind of noise on releasing the clutch, right at the top.
If I slightly press the clutch down (holding it near the top) you can hear it as long as you keep the pedal there.

If I press the clutch the whole way down and hold it there is no noise there..

I'm guessing the problem is getting worse as until yesterday there was no noise if I just sat with the car idling in neutral but yesterday I noticed when the car is idling in neutral it sounds as though something has come lose somewhere and is rattling around but once its warm that noise goes away

Driving wise there is no issue, no sticking clutch pedal or clutch slipping or anything, it's just the noises at this point...

[Rob69]

It sounds like your dual mass flywheel is knackered rather than release bearing. Dont put off getting it sorted as they can disintegrate and turn into a nightmare to get off.

[Dony-Jam]

It sounds like your dual mass flywheel is knackered rather than release bearing. Dont put off getting it sorted as they can disintegrate and turn into a nightmare to get off.

Cheers for the reply Rob,

I'm guessing this means it could just completely go at any moment?

I've just been quoted 385 parts and labour, which I thought is actually quite cheap?

How big of a job is it to take on DIY? I'm no mechanic but my old man knows his way around cars so I'd probably labor for him

[Rob69]

It could rattle like that for ages or could fail tomorrow, there are threads on this site dealing with damaged flywheels and the cutting required to get access to the flywheel to crankshaft bolts. Not sure what that quote would be for as a flywheel alone costs around £500, so total job I would estimate at around £1000. I'm sure there are folks here who could correct me on that though !
Look for you tube vids etc on gearbox removal before considering DIY, and price up flywheel, clutch and release bearing / slave cylinder kits + maybe 6-8 hours labour to come up with a garage cost, again I stand to be corrected though. It's a long time since I lay on my back in the driveway to remove a gearbox like this and I wouldn't take it on these days with my back, they're a pretty hefty box to be manhandling!

[Dony-Jam]

Yeah I had a watch of some clips and decided for the price iv3 been quoted it's not worth it. You can get the 3 piece LUK clutch kit for about 350 on eBay so im guessing they must be able to get the kit for quite a bit under that with discounts? Said they'd keep my car for 2 days and actually mentioned they'd be using a 3 piece LUK kit. I've had other quotes from 500 up to 1000 so they must get mega discounted parts or something

Cheers for your help tho pal

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Renars]

It sounds like your dual mass flywheel is knackered rather than release bearing. Dont put off getting it sorted as they can disintegrate and turn into a nightmare to get off.

It sounded more like release bearing to me. Why you think its flywheel ?
If flywheel is close to getting really bad it can be seen on cars door - if they are open they will shake as there is more vibration.
Its better seen on cold start.
Flywheel is expensive part and expensive labor, dont touch it just on suspicion, car isnt that new and high value to just throw a lot ob money in it.
And asking a lot of money for cutting needed if there is no access to bolts is ripoff. Its quick grinding.

[Rob69]

just going by a couple of things he mentioned in the first post and presuming that this is still the original flywheel with 130k on it;
yesterday I noticed when the car is idling in neutral it sounds as though something has come lose somewhere and is rattling around but once its warm that noise goes away - Idling in neutral the release bearing is not normally in contact with the pressure plate spring and shouldn't be doing anything to make a noise. when the flywheel heats up something changes size and locks up the loose spring or whatever.
The first thing I noticed was a growling/rattle kind of noise on releasing the clutch, right at the top.
If I slightly press the clutch down (holding it near the top) you can hear it as long as you keep the pedal there. - when the load is taken off or coming onto the flywheel, just at the bite point the secondary flywheel is chattering back and forwards on a broken spring, when the flywheel is loaded up the secondary flywheel is hard up against the springs and the chattering stops.
I appreciate what you say about the doors vibrating when things get bad, but I think this guys DMF is in the early stages and is progressing to become a steady rattle in neutral. I had similar early DMF rattle symptoms a year ago on a 145k passat 1.9.
It's a tough call to make on a car of that age unless you intend to keep it for a few more years and IMO a risk to take only to change the bearing / pressure / friction plate on a suspect 130k flywheel. Hopefully it is the release bearing and he can get a fix for £380, maybe the garage it is at will give him their honest opinion if and when they get the gearbox off

[DMitch16]

As per Rob69 - DMF chatter highly likely and 130k a good stint for these flywheels. Seen some fail much earlier and on a CBDC engined car I did at 112k, the DMF had to be cut off with a 1mm cutting disc on an angle grinder (centre piece to expose bolts).

At 130k I would be changing the clutch and flywheel (done quite a few on both manual and DSG versions) as you don't want a second gearbox off scenario a few months down the line. There are a few different methods from removing the subframe, not removing it and putting the front end into the service position or neither and trying to do it with the gearbox pulled back towards the nearside. Not heard of it done without making the appropriate room by removing subframe / putting in service position but some will have tried. The DSG is a bigger box so limits the options. 2 days for a garage is a little long as I DIY this now in a day (now that I have several banked) but did take me 2 days on the first one (DSG). Pretty much the same job for most of the 2wd B6 models but doing it yourself can be daunting the first time even with ElsaWin (VW software with full workshop manual).

Parts £280 to £500 depending on how hard you look (seen same kit at both ends of this price scale). Some new bolts and seals needed from VW.

[Renars]

As per Rob69 - DMF chatter highly likely and 130k a good stint for these flywheels. Seen some fail much earlier and on a CBDC engined car I did at 112k, the DMF had to be cut off with a 1mm cutting disc on an angle grinder (centre piece to expose bolts).

At 130k I would be changing the clutch and flywheel (done quite a few on both manual and DSG versions) as you don't want a second gearbox off scenario a few months down the line. There are a few different methods from removing the subframe, not removing it and putting the front end into the service position or neither and trying to do it with the gearbox pulled back towards the nearside. Not heard of it done without making the appropriate room by removing subframe / putting in service position but some will have tried. The DSG is a bigger box so limits the options. 2 days for a garage is a little long as I DIY this now in a day (now that I have several banked) but did take me 2 days on the first one (DSG). Pretty much the same job for most of the 2wd B6 models but doing it yourself can be daunting the first time even with ElsaWin (VW software with full workshop manual).

Parts £280 to £500 depending on how hard you look (seen same kit at both ends of this price scale). Some new bolts and seals needed from VW.

Getting off DSG is no problem whatsoever if you push engine forward until it hits radiator fan housing.
Just need someone to help lift it off and put back up.
I think removing subframe is longest way.
It took 9h for me first time, but I lost 1h because I had to manufacture tool to get pilot bearing out.