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Thread: Resetting the driver adaptation of the auto transmission

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  1. Resetting the driver adaptation of the auto transmission 
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    Having sorted the issue out with the binding front brake on my allroad, I am now left with the impression that the transmission is shifting up gear a little late. As far as I can tell this is not a mechanical/hydraulic issue with the transmission itself because, if I push the stick over to the right and use the tiptronic mode it shifts when I tell it to.

    I think this transmission is one where the controller is supposed to learn your driving style and adapt accordingly, a bit like having sport/comfort modes except that the gearbox guesses which you want rather than having a control. Assuming this is true, my suspicion is that, having previously had to press the accelerator a little more due to the binding brake, it now thinks my normal driving style is sportier than it is.

    I am sure I read on here, somewhere, that this learning of driving style by the transmission can be reset by disconnecting the battery for a while but I have tried searching and can't find it. Is this true? How long would it need to be disconnected for?

    BTW, I see talk of multitronic and tiptronic transmissions but I am not sure which mine has. If it helps, the selector has the normal automatic positions on the left with numbered gears below the D, finishing at 2, and then the up/down controls if the stick is pushed to the right. I also have a copy of the PR code sticker from the spare wheel well is someone knows how to decode it.
     
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  2. Re: Resetting the driver adaptation of the auto transmission 
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    Disconnecting the battery deletes certain learned values but the main adaptations and basic setting have to be done with suitable diagnostic equipment.
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  3. Re: Resetting the driver adaptation of the auto transmission 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crasher View Post
    Disconnecting the battery deletes certain learned values but the main adaptations and basic setting have to be done with suitable diagnostic equipment.
    Yes. There are lots of old wives tales doing the forum rounds describing a supposed reset procedure. Someone even did it for the BMW's. It looked authentic, they must have been bored one day to post such rubbish. Many users got sucked in.
    2017 Audi Q5 Quattro S line Navarro Blue 2.0 litre TFSI, HBA, Powered Mirrors, QVIA AR790 (2 Channel Dash Cameras), Front & Rear parking cameras with smart interface.
     
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  4. Re: Resetting the driver adaptation of the auto transmission 
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    I appear to have same box as you, with same gate. As far as I know the multitronic is not torque converter type, but variable band?

    So if same, ZF 5speed on torque converter this is how mine behaves.

    Generally if you use light throttle (perception is up to a third-ish) It'll upchange by about 2000rpm and get into top 5th at 32mph approx.
    Also like this it'll be quite sleepy and just smoothing along in top. If you very slowly increase throttle but still in first third of travel, it'll bring on boost to gain torque but will resist changedown if you are gentle.
    If you tread on it, it'll initially fumble slightly before a couple of hurried down changes and get going quickly as it senses ergency.
    Like this, it'll change up about 3/3500 ish and seems to make the most of torque range, easily bringing up 80/90mph.
    If you use the last part of throttle travel into that springy/kickdown range, it'll ring it out to red line before a change.
    So it seems dynamic to me in as much as sensetive to how much pace you ask the engine room for.

    If you've used max poke it then seems to hold onto change urgency for a while and you can feel a sharper clutching but within a mile or so of soft throttle use it'll drop back to "normal" operation. So it doesn't seem to me to hold any significant memory. It'll just stay more abrupt if you keep poking it.

    You can also feel it if you pull away with a bit more than third throttle, it'll initially hold onto lower gears until 2/3000 rpm range but if you back throttle down then, it will drop back to lazy.

    It also seems to hold first and second to a little higher rpm if pulling away straight after a stone cold start. Presumed it was just doing this to get warm cycle faster and reduce emissions.
     
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  5. Re: Resetting the driver adaptation of the auto transmission 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crasher View Post
    Disconnecting the battery deletes certain learned values but the main adaptations and basic setting have to be done with suitable diagnostic equipment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frithwood View Post
    Yes. There are lots of old wives tales doing the forum rounds describing a supposed reset procedure. Someone even did it for the BMW's. It looked authentic, they must have been bored one day to post such rubbish. Many users got sucked in.

    Ok, I was not expecting that this would reset such things as the wear adaptation. It makes perfect sense that should be triggered from diagnostics as one would one want to do it having done some work on the transmission. Some sources on the net are suggesting the driver adpatation is not stored at all and it adapts to the driver each time it is driven.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hannu5 View Post
    I appear to have same box as you, with same gate.
    Reading ahead, I think it must be some variant of the ZF 5HP. That gate layout is pictured in some ZF documentation. I can't work out if it would be a 5HP19 or a 5HP24 - neither seems to have the allroad 2.5 TDI listed as an application but I think it must be one or the other.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hannu5 View Post
    As far as I know the multitronic is not torque converter type, but variable band?
    Ah, so multitronic is CVT. I had one of those on my Mercedes A class. While it still worked, it was easily the best transmission to drive as it could change down just a little bit you you wanted to accelerate gently or by a lot if you push the pedal hard. It also worked really well with the cruise control, it could make small changes to the ratio to compensation for going up hill and when running down hill it could hold the speed by trimming the gear to get the exact amount of engine braking needed.

    The Merc box still used a torque converter with lock-up clutch, the steel belt replaces the epicyclic gears that would be in a normal auto box.

    Unfortunately, it stopped working and I still havn't got to the bottom of why. In my case it isn't the common speed sensor issue. It is a pity to hear comments on here that the Audi equivalent also has reliability issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hannu5 View Post
    Generally if you use light throttle (perception is up to a third-ish) It'll upchange by about 2000rpm and get into top 5th at 32mph approx.
    That matches the advice in the user manual for driving a manual for maximum ecconomy. Having read that, I was a little surprised my auto seemed to be changing up at about 2300 but this was at the start of a journey so I think maybe this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hannu5 View Post
    It also seems to hold first and second to a little higher rpm if pulling away straight after a stone cold start. Presumed it was just doing this to get warm cycle faster and reduce emissions.
    As it warms up it definitely changes up at lower RPM. Sometimes, it does seem happy to sit at 2,000 when the speedo shows 30mph. Speeding up just a little will cause it to change up so reducing rpm to about 1400. As I have mentioned I can also make it change up by using the tiptronic mode and I have also discovered if I engage cruise control at 30mph it will then change up. Part of the issue may be an under-reading speedo, i.e. when it indicates 30 it is probably more like 28.

    The other thing I had noticed was what seemed like two up changes in quick succession but watching the rev counter the second change does not reduce rpm by nearly as much as the first so I think this is actually engaging the torque converter lock-up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hannu5 View Post
    Also like this it'll be quite sleepy and just smoothing along in top. If you very slowly increase throttle but still in first third of travel, it'll bring on boost to gain torque but will resist changedown if you are gentle. If you tread on it, it'll initially fumble slightly before a couple of hurried down changes and get going quickly as it senses ergency.
    Yes, almost as if it can't comprehend what seems like an inconsistent style, for example drive gently up to a roundabout because it looks busy and you will probably have to stop but then spot a gap, step on it to get into that gap etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hannu5 View Post
    Like this, it'll change up about 3/3500 ish and seems to make the most of torque range, easily bringing up 80/90mph.
    This does seem to be an area where it feels very much at home, for example accelerating up the on ramp to a motorway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hannu5 View Post
    If you use the last part of throttle travel into that springy/kickdown range, it'll ring it out to red line before a change.
    So it seems dynamic to me in as much as sensetive to how much pace you ask the engine room for.

    If you've used max poke it then seems to hold onto change urgency for a while and you can feel a sharper clutching but within a mile or so of soft throttle use it'll drop back to "normal" operation. So it doesn't seem to me to hold any significant memory. It'll just stay more abrupt if you keep poking it.

    You can also feel it if you pull away with a bit more than third throttle, it'll initially hold onto lower gears until 2/3000 rpm range but if you back throttle down then, it will drop back to lazy.
    So I think this may be a case of me getting used to it rather than anything else.
     
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  6. Re: Resetting the driver adaptation of the auto transmission 
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    Ah, the aproaching roundabout bit, that does seem to drop into a bit of a hole sometimes. Don't know if you've also noticed with this (in common with all VAG turbo diesel I've tried) the turbo boost seems to be cancelled by the brake light circuit.

    If you get it pulling quite hard on boost, then just lightly touch the brake pedal only to just bring the brake lights on (without taking your foot off the throttle, left foot use) it immediately kills the boost, which then takes time to recover.
    So if you are braking into give way, then switch to throttle you can catch it off guard before it'll give you anything.

    When waiting to pull out of a T junction, I hold it on the handbrake because of this response (rather than sit with footbrake on) and it's almost instantly available torque then.

    Agree about box model ZF 5 HP I'd guess at 24 because the torque rating (24 maybe main shaft diameter in mm, not sure)
    I've also got a ZF 4HP 22 in old range rover which has no electronic input, just kickdown cable. Compared to that one which is very linear response, the Audi fitment with different response rates is clear. That the 4HP has lockup at 51mph which you can just feel. It's also a very smooth box.
    The Audi 5HP is harder to detect on my example.

    Think the cvt when fitted has the torque capped when used on V6 for reliable use.

    I use the Audi all the time in auto as I've got used to what it's doing and know if I want it to I may have to prompt it with throttle position.

    One area though which I'll override it is in snow. It just changes up and you loose engine braking for decent control. So I move lever to right and use first gear in very critical situations. We take it to the alps for family trips so it sees a few mountain villages in winter.

    It will give you transmission braking in normal road conditions, if you are off the throttle long enough going downhill you can feel it but it's quite gentle. And way too slow in reacting for alpine snow work.
     
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  7. Re: Resetting the driver adaptation of the auto transmission 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hannu5 View Post
    Ah, the aproaching roundabout bit, that does seem to drop into a bit of a hole sometimes. Don't know if you've also noticed with this (in common with all VAG turbo diesel I've tried) the turbo boost seems to be cancelled by the brake light circuit.

    If you get it pulling quite hard on boost, then just lightly touch the brake pedal only to just bring the brake lights on (without taking your foot off the throttle, left foot use) it immediately kills the boost, which then takes time to recover.
    So if you are braking into give way, then switch to throttle you can catch it off guard before it'll give you anything.
    That's not something I have been watching out for but will now. I can see the logic in that if braking, and therefore possibly wanting some assistance from engine braking, turbo boost is not helpful but equally there will be situations in which the consequent turbo lag when re-accelerating is a nuisance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hannu5 View Post
    When waiting to pull out of a T junction, I hold it on the handbrake because of this response (rather than sit with footbrake on) and it's almost instantly available torque then.
    Another thing to try.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hannu5 View Post
    Agree about box model ZF 5 HP I'd guess at 24 because the torque rating (24 maybe main shaft diameter in mm, not sure)
    I've also got a ZF 4HP 22 in old range rover which has no electronic input, just kickdown cable. Compared to that one which is very linear response, the Audi fitment with different response rates is clear. That the 4HP has lockup at 51mph which you can just feel. It's also a very smooth box.
    The Audi 5HP is harder to detect on my example.
    I think the 4HP22 was the box I had on a Volvo 740. A few years previously I had a ford with their C3 box, then I had a manual, then the 740 with the ZF4HP22 and my first impression is that it was much more refined than the ford and I remember it had torque converter lockup at about that speed. I had a Volvo 850 T5 after that which I think had an electronically controlled box which had torque converter lockup in more gears but that was fine - usually I'd just forget about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hannu5 View Post
    Think the cvt when fitted has the torque capped when used on V6 for reliable use.
    That makes sense. I always though CVT was more suitable for smaller, lower torque engines and was attractive there because it was more efficient and therefore didn't make such a dent in the economy or performance as a large, complex epicyclic box would. Perhaps the reliability issues are a misapplication of the technology.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hannu5 View Post
    I use the Audi all the time in auto as I've got used to what it's doing and know if I want it to I may have to prompt it with throttle position.

    One area though which I'll override it is in snow. It just changes up and you loose engine braking for decent control. So I move lever to right and use first gear in very critical situations. We take it to the alps for family trips so it sees a few mountain villages in winter.

    It will give you transmission braking in normal road conditions, if you are off the throttle long enough going downhill you can feel it but it's quite gentle. And way too slow in reacting for alpine snow work.
    I am definitely getting used to it now rather being puzzled by what it is doing. We've not had snow around here, at least so far this year, but I'll be happy to override it if it does come.

    BTW, I have spend some very enjoyable time in the alps during the summer.
     
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