Cold Start Failing - Brake + EPS Lights on

[suley]

Hi Guys,

So over the last few days its been getting colder and I did notice at times, I would put the key, press down on the clutch and it would start but not feel like it had a slightly longer turn on the engine. Since it started it was not a concern and on I would drive.

This morning, I got out and found freezing rain on the car which is always fun trying to remove. I got into the car and put the key in, noticed dash had 0 degrees on it, I pressed down on clutch and nothing, no engine turn or otherwise. Tried a couple of times and it started to come on the dashboard, EPS Fault and Electric Parking Brake Fault, I pressed on the brake it self and it felt stiff so I was thinking maybe its become too cold.

I turned off the audio player and tried a few times and no joy, by this point its more then a few mins in. I decided to check the battery and have one of these fm transmitters which says the battery charge, it was reporting 12v which looked fine to me. I left the ignition on and decided to call the breakdown service and told it would be 55 mins, before they were with me. After around 15 mins of the key being left in, I noticed the brake light went off, at this point on the dash (P with a line through) had gone off, and around 30 seconds later, I tried again and the car turned on, no jutters or anything. I switched off and tried again and no problems. I drove out and called breakdown to not see me.

I did a few revs to ensure the engine felt some power and turned on the air conditioning to defrost the screen and begun driving down the road. Around 2 mins later while on the main road, while in 3rd gear I noticed the car started to loose power in acceleration and so dropped to second gear and everything was fine and went to third gear and it was fine again.

Its a 2009 passat so while not new has low milage and last thing I want is the car to have problems in which case I have a 3 month warranty I would rather get it fixed now under the insurance policy thing, sadly it seems to only cover anything thats not wear and tear.

Has anyone else experienced this issue and if yes, what was found to be the problem? Should the Electric Parking Brake stop the car turning on?

[Quatrelle]

Have you read the 'Cold start problems....' thread from a couple of days ago? You say your battery shows 12v (no more?). A battery in good condition should show nearer 13 than 12 volts.

[Crasher]

“Second hand car warranties are not worth the paper they are written on”..... that is what a used car salesman said to me last week when he was trying to get his wife’s new used car fixed by us under warranty. How old is your cars battery?

[suley]

“Second hand car warranties are not worth the paper they are written on”..... that is what a used car salesman said to me last week when he was trying to get his wife’s new used car fixed by us under warranty. How old is your cars battery?

Thanks, just messaged the guys. Not sure how old battery is, this morning had the same issue. But this time it was unsuccessful starting, basically same as yesterday EPS and Parking Brake Lights on dash, no attempt to turn engine. I had a breakdown guy come out and he plugged in the battery booster and we tried again, no joy. It was freezing outside so thought Ill try at lunch and see what happens.

I did call VW and did find out was the car has had the VW Repair Action done and it involved the ECU being flashed with the new software? Not sure if that's responsible or not.

[suley]

Would you suggest changing battery in that case?

Hi Guys,

So over the last few days its been getting colder and I did notice at times, I would put the key, press down on the clutch and it would start but not feel like it had a slightly longer turn on the engine. Since it started it was not a concern and on I would drive.

This morning, I got out and found freezing rain on the car which is always fun trying to remove. I got into the car and put the key in, noticed dash had 0 degrees on it, I pressed down on clutch and nothing, no engine turn or otherwise. Tried a couple of times and it started to come on the dashboard, EPS Fault and Electric Parking Brake Fault, I pressed on the brake it self and it felt stiff so I was thinking maybe its become too cold.

I turned off the audio player and tried a few times and no joy, by this point its more then a few mins in. I decided to check the battery and have one of these fm transmitters which says the battery charge, it was reporting 12v which looked fine to me. I left the ignition on and decided to call the breakdown service and told it would be 55 mins, before they were with me. After around 15 mins of the key being left in, I noticed the brake light went off, at this point on the dash (P with a line through) had gone off, and around 30 seconds later, I tried again and the car turned on, no jutters or anything. I switched off and tried again and no problems. I drove out and called breakdown to not see me.

I did a few revs to ensure the engine felt some power and turned on the air conditioning to defrost the screen and begun driving down the road. Around 2 mins later while on the main road, while in 3rd gear I noticed the car started to loose power in acceleration and so dropped to second gear and everything was fine and went to third gear and it was fine again.

Its a 2009 passat so while not new has low milage and last thing I want is the car to have problems in which case I have a 3 month warranty I would rather get it fixed now under the insurance policy thing, sadly it seems to only cover anything thats not wear and tear.

Has anyone else experienced this issue and if yes, what was found to be the problem? Should the Electric Parking Brake stop the car turning on?

[Crasher]

I imagine the battery will be the ten year old original, when I were a lad you were lucky if a quality battery lasted two years... Battery failure really does seem to be throwing people these days, I can't see why?

[suley]

I imagine the battery will be the ten year old original, when I were a lad you were lucky if a quality battery lasted two years... Battery failure really does seem to be throwing people these days, I can't see why?

Ok, so I was thinking get a new battery and a garage down the road, I asked them to test the battery and replace. They said they checked the battery and it was fine, they tried to start after the 6th attempt it started and since its started up 10 times no problem. He thinks might be starter motor or something. But no idea what it may be and only when its doing it is someone going to work it out.

I have VW booked to look at it, the only question is, if its a ECU issue then VW will cover but otherwise it will be more expensive, would you A, take to VW and hope it ECU and not brake or something which will cost more repairing via VW or B, take it to a VW specialist and see what they can find.

[philipharmes]

So you've obviously got some sort of electrical problem which is very unlikely to be caused by an ECU fault or the emissions update that you have mentioned.

You've had the battery tested ok & in a previous post said " EPS and Parking Brake Lights on dash, no attempt to turn engine" .

It could be just the starter motor needs replacing but does sound more deep seated as you have the Parking Brake & EPS lights up.

I would call in an Auto Electrician & check he has the wiring information for this car.

I'm assuming all the relevant fuses in both the interior & engine fusebox's have been checked.

[suley]

So you've obviously got some sort of electrical problem which is very unlikely to be caused by an ECU fault or the emissions update that you have mentioned.

You've had the battery tested ok & in a previous post said " EPS and Parking Brake Lights on dash, no attempt to turn engine" .

It could be just the starter motor needs replacing but does sound more deep seated as you have the Parking Brake & EPS lights up.

I would call in an Auto Electrician & check he has the wiring information for this car.

I'm assuming all the relevant fuses in both the interior & engine fusebox's have been checked.

Thanks, I have narrowed to either a fuse, relay or electrical. So this morning the same happened again, this time I had more time to look at it rather then be late for work. After a few attempts of no engine turns, I decided to look at the front and take a look, I decided to open the fuse box and noticed when I closed the box a zapping sound. I thought I never heard that on my old passat (05) and when I opened and close the box it did the same, I noticed I would get a zapping type click sound which seems to come from the main engine. I went to the dash and key out and in and found the errors gone and the engine started.

I went inside and when I came back out, I found the same issue with the engine not turning and began to record but this time I decided to leave the fuse box open and on the side and see if it would start, no joy without the lid on the side and when placed on, placed the lid on and the zapping sound was not heard, the engine did not turn. Tried turning on and the same fault lights. Then open the lid and close and both times I hear the zap with the key left in the ignition and when I try again the engine turns on. I wanted to check the fusebox but I dont have a multimeter so think I will have to wait to borrow one from work.

Ive made a video, I guess my question is, the zap is that normal? If not it seems to come from under the main engine the grey lid area as oppose to the fuse box. But the fuse box is the trigger. I was thinking maybe a weak fuse or relay which is causing the issue.

Ive recorded the video to show you what mean,
Long version 8E40EB6F-794C-4FC9-8DBD-4DD9FF9DF0EE.MOV - Google Drive
Short version 7DB45BB7-DB41-4541-856C-670569B2C06B.MOV - Google Drive

[philipharmes]

That zizzing sound is definately a bad electrical conexion which seems to be comming from the fuse box.

Almost every time you slide the locking tabs on the fuse box you seemed to get that noise.

If you look at the front of the fuse box there are all the main wires with nuts holding them to the electrical conexions in the box.

Make sure they all look clean & tight.
Some of them are permanently live, so be very carefull using anything metal like spanners/ pliers there without disconnecting the battery first.

If you can't find any problem there try jiggling each fuse to see if you can replicate the noise, also check that relay.

Otherwise it will be a case of dismantling the fuse box to look for the bad conexion.